Just found a 30% hit hell laser, and I was wondering...

[BatistaROBO]

In ultimate difficulty, about how often would a level 126 RAcast get instant kills with a 30% Hit Hell Laser, a 194 DEX Mag, and the S-Parts that raise your accuracy by 15?

I'd like to know because I recently got a Hell Laser with 30% hit and I was wondering if it would be worth making a 194 DEX mag and finding a S-Parts to make a potential one-hit killing machine.
Thanks in advance for the Help!

[VulpesMundi]

The Hell special generally sucks in Ultimate. It rarely works in episode 1 at all. However, there's a number of enemies in episode 2 that have low EDK and are susceptible to Megid, so I imagine that Hell would work decently on them as well.

[Genoa]

It's good in epi2. Maybe ult forest but that's about it.

[Eviltar]

I thought its chances of working had to do with the monsters' ESP stat.

[Corey]

What in the world is ESP...?

[Soukosa]

On 2004-02-18 16:19, Eviltar wrote:
I thought its chances of working had to do with the monsters' ESP stat.

I thought that too, but using Dark against a Bartle with only 12 ESP didn't yeild too great of results. It seems to me that it does use EDK. I guess I better update my page on how special attacks work.



On 2004-02-18 19:02, Corey wrote:
What in the world is ESP...?

Resistance to special attacks. Some specials use it, but most don't seem to.

[Firocket1690]

Even if so, It's just a laser (rifle) and only kills one by one ... =P

There was a untekked 80% hit Hell Laser floating around a while ago ...

Well, on the bright side, it'll probably own all of Normal, some Hard, and if you're consistant, You might be able to kill a few things in VH too ... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif
... but not much

If you're going for rifles, you're bbetter off wit ha Frozen Shooter.

[Soukosa]

It should be able to kill some of the more annoying things in Ult Ep 2. Offline you can wipe out a good portion of the Seabed with it. Online you can take out the Gees and Morfoses. But yeah, a Hell Arms or something with Hit would be better.

[SuperDK]

Damn it. I was gonna say something like what Sounomi said, but the page messed up on me...

Anyway, what she said. At 300+ATA, most monsters in Ult Seabed dies pretty easily, with a couple of exceptions. If you're gonna take that route though, you'd probably want something like an FS too(to take care of Delbiters and Deldepths).

At least, my RAcast kills a lot of monsters very quickly in there.

[Firocket1690]

On 2004-02-18 23:36, Sounomi wrote:
But yeah, a Hell Arms or something with Hit would be better.


Well, yeah.
My RAmarl is speeding through Ult forest runs with Hell Arms. (no hit)
Quick and easy EXP.

Don't underestimate it.

Like I said earlier, a rifle only kills one by one ... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Soukosa]

Instant kill didn't work too well for me when I tried it out, then again, I was using a Slicer of Assassin (Dark) with no Hit. My RAmarl got through Ult Forest the first serveral times with a Demon's Laser with 40% Hit. Worked quite well in the Caves too, where if I pulled it off just right, I could get an Ob to kill itself in one combo http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[RadHaz]

I have a Hell Calibur, 40% hit.
With a 1 2 3 combo in forest I get:
hit hit miss hit hit miss hit hit miss hit hit miss
I am fearful of bringing this wep anywhere! Does it work better in other areas?

[Soukosa]

On 2004-02-19 00:08, RadHaz wrote:
Does it work better in other areas?

Check out the beastiary and look for some enemies with some fairly low EDK (around 50 or so).

[Firocket1690]

On 2004-02-18 23:50, Sounomi wrote:
I could get an Ob to kill itself in one combo ^^


o_O

[navci]

It'd seem like the instant kill special work better on special weapons...

Darn! I wish you can have hit on the enemy weapons. Sinow Beat's blades really is quite good with the special, plus you get to hit 6 times, so increases the chance of killing.

Of coursse, my seksi HUcast is using it, so by the end of the 6 hit combo, the thing is prolly dead anyway.

[Soukosa]

On 2004-02-19 00:13, Firocket1690 wrote:


On 2004-02-18 23:50, Sounomi wrote:
I could get an Ob to kill itself in one combo http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

o_O

It's HP got down so low, that it goes into spin and die mode.



On 2004-02-19 00:23, navi wrote:
Darn! I wish you can have hit on the enemy weapons. Sinow Beat's blades really is quite good with the special, plus you get to hit 6 times, so increases the chance of killing.

I've stated to other people that ST's bound to provide a way to add hit to weapons and they've agreed with me. With the Blades, I belive the special is Hell, but I need to check for myself.

[SuperDK]

On 2004-02-19 00:23, navi wrote:
It'd seem like the instant kill special work better on special weapons...

Darn! I wish you can have hit on the enemy weapons. Sinow Beat's blades really is quite good with the special, plus you get to hit 6 times, so increases the chance of killing.

Of coursse, my seksi HUcast is using it, so by the end of the 6 hit combo, the thing is prolly dead anyway.



Well, in a sense that'd work. But isn't the chance lowered by some amount? Because each attack is 2, so it'd be like half or whatnot?

[Firocket1690]

On 2004-02-19 00:29, SuperDK wrote:


On 2004-02-19 00:23, navi wrote:
It'd seem like the instant kill special work better on special weapons...

Darn! I wish you can have hit on the enemy weapons. Sinow Beat's blades really is quite good with the special, plus you get to hit 6 times, so increases the chance of killing.

Of coursse, my seksi HUcast is using it, so by the end of the 6 hit combo, the thing is prolly dead anyway.



Well, in a sense that'd work. But isn't the chance lowered by some amount? Because each attack is 2, so it'd be like half or whatnot?


I have a nice pair of Hell Vulcans. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[VulpesMundi]

On 2004-02-19 00:23, navi wrote:
It'd seem like the instant kill special work better on special weapons...

This is very true. Assuming you saw it, do you remember the study I did on experience stealing weapons? Wasn't more than two months ago, I think. Anyway, weapons are basically classified into three departments...

Single-target: gets the full effect of the special. This includes Saber, Handgun, Rifle, Cane, Rod, Wand, Claw, and possibly more.
Dual-/wide-hit: gets 50% the effect of the special. This includes Dagger, Twin Saber, Sword, Partisan, and possibly more.
Multi-hit: gets 32.5% the effect of the special. This includes Slicer, Mechgun, Shotgun, and possibly more.

The effectiveness changes how accurate the special is (not the attack, which is still determined by ATA, but rather the special effect itself). It will also effect how much a stealing weapon (Gush, Geist, King's, etc.) will steal. If you use a weapon with a 32.5% effectiveness (lets say a Shot), each bullet of the special attack will have 32.5% the effectiveness of the same special being used on a single-target weapon (such as a Saber). Not all weapons or special attacks are equally effected by these, though. And some special weapons are effective differently than they're expected to be. The Flight Fan is a good example of this. It's a slicer, which fits under the multi-hit category. However the Flight Fan's special is treated as if it was a single-target weapon. It was also discovered that all the S-ranks are treated as single-target weapons, regardless of their native class type. So generally speaking, special weapons do indeed seem to have more effective special attacks in the long run.

Edit: Clarity. Also, I found the topic where I did a study on the experience stealing specials of various weapons. It's here...
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=73058&forum=7

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VulpesMundi on 2004-02-19 14:22 ]</font>

[Armok]

Masters and Kings vulcans both take24 exp in ult mode.

[BatistaROBO]

Hmm... So Episode Two enemies are easier to insta-kill huh? I think Ill start making a 194 DEX MAG than. Being able to kill Morfos and Sinows in seconds sounds almost to good to be true!
And I can always give the DEX mag and Hell Laser to my low level RAmar, clearing lower difficulties with ease sounds good too.

[Genoa]

Hell isn't worth getting. If an android, something that steals HP is very nice. Like Gush (I think that's the HP one... I like Beserk and Spirit Weapons. But I don't like spirit on my FO, TP goes down the drain and is alot harder to recover. Elemental specials are always a no no. HP, TP, and EXP stealing is good, Demon&Devil is good, Hell is ok..., Confusing is pretty nice actually. I have a pair of Chaos Vulcans with 35%hit. I like them alot. I want on ult and confused a Delsaber, and it slashed the crap out of Indi Belra.

[navci]

Thanks for the explaination, Vulpes!

Demon special is really useful when you are a support bot. (meaning you are supposed to be shield, and no kill)

[SuperDK]

On 2004-02-19 04:25, VulpesMundi wrote:


On 2004-02-19 00:23, navi wrote:
It'd seem like the instant kill special work better on special weapons...

This is very true. Assuming you saw it, do you remember the study I did on experience stealing weapons? Wasn't more than two months ago, I think. Anyway, weapons are basically classified into three departments...

Single-target: gets the full effect of the special. This includes Saber, Handgun, Rifle, Cane, Rod, Wand, Claw, and possibly more.
Dual-/wide-hit: gets 50% the effect of the special. This includes Dagger, Twin Saber, Sword, Partisan, and possibly more.
Multi-hit: gets 32.5% the effect of the special. This includes Slicer, Mechgun, Shotgun, and possibly more.

The effectiveness changes how accurate the special is (not the attack, which is still determined by ATA, but rather the special effect itself). It will also effect how much a stealing weapon (Gush, Geist, King's, etc.) will steal. If you use a weapon with a 32.5% effectiveness (lets say a Shot), each bullet of the special attack will have 32.5% the effectiveness of the same special being used on a single-target weapon (such as a Saber). Not all weapons or special attacks are equally effected by these, though. And some special weapons are effective differently than they're expected to be. The Flight Fan is a good example of this. It's a slicer, which fits under the multi-hit category. However the Flight Fan's special is treated as if it was a single-target weapon. It was also discovered that all the S-ranks are treated as single-target weapons, regardless of their native class type. So generally speaking, special weapons do indeed seem to have more effective special attacks in the long run.

Edit: Clarity. Also, I found the topic where I did a study on the experience stealing specials of various weapons. It's here...
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=73058&forum=7

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VulpesMundi on 2004-02-19 14:22 ]</font>


So what's up with the Chain Sawd's HP drain attack? It steals 120HP per enemy, instead of 30(or something like that)...

At least about half the Seabed monsters are very susceptible the dark attacks. Just remember to have a different weapon that can help you out a lot(Paralysis [Arrest] gun might be nice, if you don't have an FS or Spread Needle).

[Genoa]

You can determine a ?SPECIAL WEAPON and Enemy Weapon's special ablility power by how large the special's animation is... unless it's something like HP and TP drain. That animation isn't bigger (atleast I haven't seen a difference). Like, the Real Agito's special looks like Shadow or something, it's really small. But then Slicer of Assasin's special is definately Hell. It's humongoid! See what I mean?

[VulpesMundi]

On 2004-02-19 16:10, SuperDK wrote:
So what's up with the Chain Sawd's HP drain attack? It steals 120HP per enemy, instead of 30(or something like that)...

As I noted, some weapons are treated differently than expected. The Chain Sawd fits under the wide-hit category, but its special attack acts as if it were a single-target weapon. Thus is why it can steal up to 120 HP a hit.