What causes you to block?

[heyf00L]

I cannot figure out what actually causes you to block. There has to be more to it than the enemy not doing much damage. Sometimes you block an enemy once and then the next hit takes off over 100 hp. Then other times you can get hit for 0 damage. Just yesterday I was in a Seabed run and I was not blocking Dolmolm attacks but they were hitting me for 0 damage. I think enemy ATA and your EVP have something to do with it along with enemy ATP and your DFP, but I can't fully figure it out. Anyone know?

Also, what causes you not to get knocked down? You'd think it's when an enemy doesn't do much damage, but Nano Dragons take off like 1/4 my life with a blast, but I don't get knocked down.

[Rainbowlemon]

Not sure about the blocking thing, but i'm almost definately sure that the chances of you being knocked down are directly related to max HP.

[heyf00L]

Then why doens't Nano Dragon knock me down? I mean Seabed enemies to less damage in a hit and knock me down.

[DeciBal]

Blocking has alot to do with your Evasion. The higher that is, the less you'll get hit. Better than Defense anyday in my opinion.

[heyf00L]

On 2004-03-04 10:28, DeciBal wrote:
Blocking has alot to do with your Evasion. The higher that is, the less you'll get hit. Better than Defense anyday in my opinion.

Well Evade I think does have something to do with it, but DFP is also involved. I was hoping someone would say something like "If your DFP + EVP is > 1/2 Enemy ATP + ATA then you block" or something, ya know.

[VioletSkye]

On 2004-03-04 10:28, DeciBal wrote:
Blocking has alot to do with your Evasion. The higher that is, the less you'll get hit. Better than Defense anyday in my opinion.


Uhhh ok, nevermind the fact that evasion won't help you one iota against bosses. Nevermind its the most worthless mat for your char. nevermind that in Ult, even with maxed evasion you'll still get hit from many of the harder enemies. EVA is a waste to build up. I would rather take less damage in ULT, then to pray that my char blocks a hit (which it probably won't the further along you get.)

[gallaugher]

The problem with high DFP is that you don't get knocked down & can get repeatedly hit. This can easily result in death. This is common against Sinows, Barantz & certain Dark Falz attacks.

That's why my RAmarl uses Secure Feet.

[Wood_Golem]

Yes this is a strange issue, i've noticed it also for quite a while now. I'll give you a practical example. With my HUnew's EVP + deband i can't block Melqueeks, but with Jellen on the sucker i can block. Melqueeks, Tollaws and Del-d's are the best of their kind, it took me quite a while to be able to block Melqueeks even with jellen, but i now block every single atack given to me.

I'll test the diference between a higher DFP over a higher EVP vs Melqueeks and give you the info for it.


Edit- Melqueeks aren't good enough test subjects, as i can block every atack both with EVP increased and DFP increased. Need a new test subject, but now SLEEP i got an exam tomorrow morning and it's 1 Am here http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wood_Golem on 2004-03-04 17:03 ]</font>

[lain2k3]

I believe that evasion comes first when determining blocking or not...enemy ata included, then If the hit is landed, you defese vs. their atp is used, and you have another chance to block. My HUnewearl using standstill shield blocks tollaws without deband and jellen about 1/3 of the time. (I dont have any other decent shields ><) with jellen and deband, she blocks all the time. with just jellen, she blocks about 2/3 of the time. with just deband, I block about 1/2 of the time vs. tollaws. other times, I get hit for 0 damage. (deband only)

This leads me to believe that jellen takes the same percent of atp away from the enemy as shifta adds to your atp. (level 30, 47%) I tested this with my fomarl as well, and I am almost sure that jellen severely cripples enemy ata as well, due to the difference in blocking ratios and getting hit for no damage.

I also think zalure does the same for enemy evp, as well as lowering defense. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Malkavian]

No, zalure doesn't lower EVP and jellen doesn't lower ATA. You can check it when Sinow Zele, Gi Gue or Migium do it to you or in battle mode.
But is true that ATP and DFP have something to do with block attacks too.
And more than this.. I'm like heyf00l. I don't know how it really works. I guess EVP plays a bigger role than DFP but I can't know it exactly.

About falling down I think it depends on max HP and HP lost. But different enemy attacks have different fall down chances. Some attacks do little damage and make me fall everytime, others do a lot more and I don't fall.

[Jason]

On 2004-03-04 10:31, VioletSkye wrote:


On 2004-03-04 10:28, DeciBal wrote:
Blocking has alot to do with your Evasion. The higher that is, the less you'll get hit. Better than Defense anyday in my opinion.


Uhhh ok, nevermind the fact that evasion won't help you one iota against bosses. Nevermind its the most worthless mat for your char. nevermind that in Ult, even with maxed evasion you'll still get hit from many of the harder enemies. EVA is a waste to build up. I would rather take less damage in ULT, then to pray that my char blocks a hit (which it probably won't the further along you get.)



I agree with you (if Shield of Delsaber boosts double of its DFP with Delsaber's Buster instead of EVP...).

[Kraida]

I agree with Malkavian. I'm pretty sure that for to get knocked down by an enemy, it has to take off MORE than a quarter of your max HP. There are exceptions however. Certain attacks will always knock you down regardless of HP. Delbiters charge for instance. Go back to normal mode and I guarantee it will knock you down.

As for the evasion issue, I've wondered this myself but can find no answer. I always thought that if your evasion was way higher than the enemy's ATA, you would block virtually every time. Also if your DEF was a lot higher than the enemy's ATP you would take no damage and block.

Hold on a second! I just remembered! I think when the enemy takes off no damage and you don't block you are actually taking damage but it is not enough to take off a full hit point. A quarter of a hit point for example. This is not confirmed however.

[Soukosa]

On 2004-03-05 06:53, Kraida wrote:
I agree with Malkavian. I'm pretty sure that for to get knocked down by an enemy, it has to take off MORE than a quarter of your max HP. There are exceptions however. Certain attacks will always knock you down regardless of HP. Delbiters charge for instance. Go back to normal mode and I guarantee it will knock you down.

That's how I figured it too. Only it seems that with the attacks that always knock you over, if they don't do any damage, they won't do so. Let's take the Crimson Assassin's charge for instance. With my FOmarl, they do barely any damage to her, but she still gets knocked over. If I were Jellen them before they run her over, she does the block animation and doesn't fall over.



As for the evasion issue, I've wondered this myself but can find no answer. I always thought that if your evasion was way higher than the enemy's ATA, you would block virtually every time. Also if your DEF was a lot higher than the enemy's ATP you would take no damage and block.

Hold on a second! I just remembered! I think when the enemy takes off no damage and you don't block you are actually taking damage but it is not enough to take off a full hit point. A quarter of a hit point for example. This is not confirmed however.

With DFP, I'm pretty sure that if an enemy does 0 or less damage, you'll just do the block animation. I have seen moments where the enemy hits me and I don't block it, yet none of my HP was taken away. I'm guess, along with you, that that was caused by it doing less 1 point of damage, but more than 0.

[lain2k3]

On 2004-03-05 05:41, Malkavian wrote:
No, zalure doesn't lower EVP and jellen doesn't lower ATA. You can check it when Sinow Zele, Gi Gue or Migium do it to you or in battle mode.
But is true that ATP and DFP have something to do with block attacks too.
And more than this.. I'm like heyf00l. I don't know how it really works. I guess EVP plays a bigger role than DFP but I can't know it exactly.

About falling down I think it depends on max HP and HP lost. But different enemy attacks have different fall down chances. Some attacks do little damage and make me fall everytime, others do a lot more and I don't fall.



I know that they dont subtract from your own ata or evp, but thats the only Thing I could come up with to explain the changes in hitting things.

[heyf00L]

On 2004-03-05 12:16, lain2k3 wrote:


On 2004-03-05 05:41, Malkavian wrote:
No, zalure doesn't lower EVP and jellen doesn't lower ATA. You can check it when Sinow Zele, Gi Gue or Migium do it to you or in battle mode.
But is true that ATP and DFP have something to do with block attacks too.
And more than this.. I'm like heyf00l. I don't know how it really works. I guess EVP plays a bigger role than DFP but I can't know it exactly.

About falling down I think it depends on max HP and HP lost. But different enemy attacks have different fall down chances. Some attacks do little damage and make me fall everytime, others do a lot more and I don't fall.



I know that they dont subtract from your own ata or evp, but thats the only Thing I could come up with to explain the changes in hitting things.

Or, like it's been suggested, DFP plays a roll in blocking.
Or maybe J/Z does affect enemy ATA/EVP. Status changes on enemies aren't the same as on players so just because it doesn't affect your ATA/EVP doesn't mean anything.

[lain2k3]

Right. I'm saying what I am because It seems more logical than defense playing a role in blocking, because A)enemy ATA doesnt effect the damage they do, making jellen too different from zalure, and B) you can still hit an enemy and do 0 damage.

O_o I dont know.

this is confusing.

[goku4ever]

All i no is that i can block all enemy attacks (except magic attacks obviously) in forest on normal (excluding the dragon aswell)

[Butoden]

My HUcast has a Delsaber Shield, with the Delsaber Saber, it will doubles EVP and ATP.
When I use the combo I block more than when I use for instance the Angry Fist. So I guess as well that it's EVP related...

[lain2k3]

Butoden, of course it's evp related. what else would evp do? but that is a good confirmation.

[Butoden]

On 2004-03-07 08:54, lain2k3 wrote:
Butoden, of course it's evp related. what else would evp do? but that is a good confirmation.
Yeah it is... I'm almost ready for Ult. Caves now...
Sorry for being Mister Too Obvious -_-;

[Dragon_Ash]

well..i've tried a lil experiment with 4 god/hps on my humar...being at level 131, witha luminous field and delsaber's shield...though with considerably high evasion (900-ish and 800+ dfp) around 60% of all the attacks made in the ult forest hit, but with four god hp's equpipped, i'd say that enemies there could only hit my humar about 15-20% of the time...

and also, i noticed that enemies like bartle, and barble have a fast left hand attack that seems to always hit and a slow right handed attack that misses most of the time....but when i had the 4 god/hp's, they usually used their slower right handed attack...which seems less accurate...

i don't know how helpful all of that bable is...but it works for me ^_^

[heyf00L]

Well then we know that evp is involved. And Dragon Ash's test shows that HP is invovled. And earlier I got a force to give me lvl 30 Deband and I blocked more often so DFP is involved.

So somehow EVP, DFP, and HP are involved in blocking. It's very strange since like we've already noted you can get hit for 0 damage and not do the blocking animation. Even tho DFP and HP are involved, I think that if your EVP isn't high enough then you won't block no matter what your DFP/HP. That would explain why you can get hit for 0 damage.

[Eeyore]

There is two types of blocks though. I thought if your EVP works, you get the block that doesn't push you back. If the monster deals 0 damage, you get the block animation and get pushed back. It always seem to happen that way to me.

[heyf00L]

Whenever I get hit for 0 damage I just do the getting-nailed animation no different from if the attack did some damage. And yes, it pushes you back.

[Dragon_Ash]

another thing i tied, was jellen and deband with my fonewearl in the ult forest...castingllen alone was enough to block almost every attack thown with exceptions from tollaw and hildelt...

and when deband is cast, i'd say there is hardly a chance that an enemy can hit...my force is level 127, and has 800+ evep and 700+ dfp, god hp's were used, but enemies still had their attacks blocked

i'm begging to think it might be enemy atp vs defence, and ata vs evp

[lain2k3]

On 2004-03-09 11:28, Dragon_Ash wrote:
another thing i tied, was jellen and deband with my fonewearl in the ult forest...castingllen alone was enough to block almost every attack thown with exceptions from tollaw and hildelt...

and when deband is cast, i'd say there is hardly a chance that an enemy can hit...my force is level 127, and has 800+ evep and 700+ dfp, god hp's were used, but enemies still had their attacks blocked

i'm begging to think it might be enemy atp vs defence, and ata vs evp



Thats definetely the stat matchup, and I would tend to think that ata vs. evp takes place before dfp vs atp.