Hockey-Canucks-Bertuzzi

[Kuea]

Has anyone heard about the bertuzzi incident?
All I know is that he broke a guys neck and got suspended for the playoffs.
What does everyone else who knows about it think?

[KodiaX987]

We had it in the news. The player picked up someone from the opposing team, slammed his face into the ice, and then landed on top of him. A general pileup followed. There might be charged filed against him.

[Dangerous55]

I think he only fractured it, and he didn't try to do it. He seemed pretty broken up. He shouldnt be blamed totally, that is the sport.

[Kuea]

yeah it is the sport so..... oh well shit happens

[ABDUR101]

Subtle difference between "shit happening" and "beating someone to the extent that their neck is broken".

[Dangerous55]

On 2004-03-11 20:22, ABDUR101 wrote:
Subtle difference between "shit happening" and "beating someone to the extent that their neck is broken".




He didnt beat him though. He punched him once, just a lucky(or unlucky) shot. Punching happens about every game in hockey, he wasnt trying to do it.

[Para]

Poor moore but then look at what he did o_o
I can't say I'm sorry for either of them.

[Outrider]

Meh. I personally think hockey would be better without all the fighting.

[KodiaX987]

On 2004-03-11 20:50, Dangerous55 wrote:

He didnt beat him though. He punched him once, just a lucky(or unlucky) shot. Punching happens about every game in hockey, he wasnt trying to do it.




I disagree; I saw the videos. The guy really hung on to his opponent's neck the entire time, forcing his head right into the ice.

[Ness]

On 2004-03-12 00:56, Outrider wrote:
Meh. I personally think hockey would be better without all the fighting.



I most definitely agree. Fighting is something that just shouldn't be included in sports.

[Dangerous55]

On 2004-03-12 06:25, Ness wrote:


On 2004-03-12 00:56, Outrider wrote:
Meh. I personally think hockey would be better without all the fighting.



I most definitely agree. Fighting is something that just shouldn't be included in sports.




Boxing?

Fighting is one of a hockeys money-makers, people like to see the fights.


Kodia, I think he was falling on him.

[ABDUR101]

The video I saw, it looked like he was hanging on him and then actually sliding the doods face into the ice.

Whatever though, I don't care enough to debate what happened nor what it looked like. If you beat someone enough that you break their neck, or even ALMOST break their neck, your ass needs to have more put against you than just sitting out of some games.

[dylcool]

One of my teachers made a good point about this. If it hadn't been on the ice, he would be put in jail for at least a few years for battery. It really is rediculous; if you really wanna beat on someone legally, just play them in a hockey game.

[Dangerous55]

He hit him once, he didn't beat him. He was not trying to fracture his neck, the guy was crying after it happened.

Fighting happens every game in Hockey practically, it is a part of the game. They know that going out there.

Whatever, think what you want.

[ABDUR101]

Thats sort of the point we're making. It's fine if he got hurt during a play or whatever, but what the hell, it's entirely different when you hurt someone because you TRIED to hurt them.

Thats my point.

[Kuea]

yeah the point is was he deliberatly trying to break(or whatever) his neck. No it was not on purpose but still how did it all start anyway?

[ABDUR101]

No the point is, if someone gets hurt in sports during a play, so what, you're playing a physical sport and you're going to get hurt in some way.

However, when you just all out beat someone, or hit someone, or jump on someone out of frustration or anger while not performing a play during the game, and they get hurt, your ass needs charges pressed against you. You had NO RIGHT to do what you did, it WASN'T an accident, and saying "shit happens" doesn't work when it's intentional.

[Dangerous55]

Alright, I could see that if it was a brand new sport.


But this is Hockey, fights happen every game and are rarely punished by law. That is a just the way the game is played.

Basketball I could see punishing him, baseball, football even. But not hockey.

[Outrider]

On 2004-03-12 14:40, Dangerous55 wrote:
Alright, I could see that if it was a brand new sport.


But this is Hockey, fights happen every game and are rarely punished by law. That is a just the way the game is played.

Basketball I could see punishing him, baseball, football even. But not hockey.



But that's the problem. I somehow doubt when they were creating hockey that they decided, "Hey, let's make it so you can mess some guy up, and just get a penalty of five minutes." Fighting is in no way important a hockey game. Ever watched a non-NHL hockey game? They tend to be a lot more fun.

[ABDUR101]

Heh, nevermind, the point I made isn't even sinking in at the slightest.

[Saiffy]

The punishment was 12 games+playoffs(Rest of the season basically) and they will discuss it before the 2004-2005 season.

As for no fighting in hockey. You must realize 75% of the time the guys from both teams discuss when to start a fight it doesn't just happen. But the other 25% of the time all hell can break loose

[Scejntjynahl]

Fighting happens in hockey as much as a bull horns somebody to death in a bullfight. Abdurs point is that the degree of the incident surpasses the norm of hockey. Punches are exchanged constantly in Hockey, very true. But this particular incident the violence was much more "personal" even vindictive. Their was hatred to the point of hurting beyond your typical brawl in hockey.

Hmm, Ill give you an example. Say a boxing match. Contender is visibly beat, can barely stand, blood all over, even by decision the match is given to the champ of this fight. But wait, the champ just "has" to hit the contender one more time. Contender dies. Is this justifiable because of the sport? Is it? This is what we call "overkill", no real necessity other than the "macho" attitude, the need to "win" to hurt, because you can. This is ridiculous.

Saying that the sport gives the right to hurt out of the boundaries of the "norm" of each particular sport is ludicrous, and should be seen as a crime. Next youll be saying its ok to use drugs to win a competition becuase everyone knows its done anyways... shees.

[Dangerous55]

Ya ya ya ya, I get everyones point this was beyond the norm. The damage was, the actual punch wasnt. He punched him ONCE, it was an unlucky shot. It would be different if he got on top of him and wailed on him for 10 minutes, but he didnt.

[Bradicus]

I can face five games for one minor fight, and one for just dropping my gloves. Still, I can either play in my league, or join the old timers that allow no contact at all, so i must live with it... I'm not a dirty player, but fighing is a part of hockey.

The punch was dirty beyond compare, and i do think that he should be punished: For the spirit of the attack, not the damage. A sucker punch deserves 5 games and some form of public shame, not the rest of the season.

[derBauer]

This was not a fight, it was a no good piece of shit taking at cheap shot at someone from behind. If you think one punch, in a real fight when someone is prepared and defending themself is no big deal, I might agree with you. But this was a cheap shot from behind and the player was off guard, and was in no position to defend himself. Furthermore, he was not in a position to brace his fall 1) because he was probably out for a second when the punch landed. And 2) he was falling with his own weight and the weight of a 200 man on top off him, WHILE HE COULD NOT PROTECT HIMSELF.
Did you see how destroyed his fucking face was? And you think this is no big deal and is typical hockey fighting? Then you're stupid.
I personally don't like hockey and maybe that is part of why I am so pissed about this. It was bullshit, the player should have been arrested, and banned for life. If he plays again, I hope someone cuts his fucking face apart with a high stick and blinds him. Eye for an eye bitch.

[Dangerous55]

On 2004-03-12 18:20, derBauer wrote:


I personally don't like hockey and maybe that is part of why I am so pissed about this. It was bullshit, the player should have been arrested, and banned for life. If he plays again, I hope someone cuts his fucking face apart with a high stick and blinds him. Eye for an eye bitch.





Then I would say you are stupid. Plain and simple.

[Guntz348]

On 2004-03-12 21:17, Dangerous55 wrote:


On 2004-03-12 18:20, derBauer wrote:


I personally don't like hockey and maybe that is part of why I am so pissed about this. It was bullshit, the player should have been arrested, and banned for life. If he plays again, I hope someone cuts his fucking face apart with a high stick and blinds him. Eye for an eye bitch.





Then I would say you are stupid. Plain and simple.



Once again, I'm gonna totally agree with you on this one D. If you are not a hockey fan, change the channel, go play PSO, or talk about something else. Hey lets talk about all the other dirty hits and shit that goes on in other games.

I hate baseball, did I bitch and moan when some guy on the yankees shoved the old man to the ground last season? No I didn't care cus, well I hate the game and couldn't careless. All I said was that was a cheap and if you are gonna pick a fight, do it face to face and make it fair.

In any sport there's dirty players, who hit dirty and go out and try to hurt players. I really don't follow any othere sport so I don't know any exact instances but I do know I've seen tons of them on Sports Center.

Now as for this hit, yes it was dirty and he should be punished, hes facing suspension for the entire next season. I think he shouldn't be allowed untill moore has healed and is able to play again. He took away that mans abbility to make a living, and yes he should be punished. Criminal charges are just rediculous, that's like trying to arrest a boxer for murder if the fighter is killed.

Hits and things like this happen in the heat of the moment and both teams know that when you go into a game like hockey theres a good chance you will get into a fight, get slammed into the boards, catch a stick in the eye and everything else that goes along with it. That's just how the game is played. 95% of the time hockey players stick to the code.

The code is that you dont hit from behind, you dont hit someone on the ground and when you do fight, you drop the gloves and you stand toe to toe with your opponent. Does it always play out like this? No of course not, its called the heat of passion and the heat of the moment. The Cannucks were down 9-2 that game, and Moore had taken out one of there players about a week or two ago. The whole team wanted to get him and the fact that they were getting beaten was just the straw that broke the camels back. Bottom line is that it wasnt a premeditaded attack. Yes they wanted to get him back, but not like this. This was an attack in the heat of the moment, a crime of passion if you will. He didn't set out to break his neck or actually kill him, he just wanted to take him down and give him a beating as an act of retribution.

[derBauer]

If you think it was in the heat of the moment and not premeditated, you obviously havn't seen complete video. He shadowed him for at least 15 seconds before it happened waiting for the oppurtunity to commit his crime. The stalking that preceded the act of assault was clearly premeditated as demonstraed by his actions. It was nothing like a typical hockey fight so don't try to apply typical hockey rules or thinking. It was a criminal act that broke someones neck, and should be handled in criminal and civil courts.
If I was playing paintball with my friends and got mad and "in the heat of the moment" broke another players neck you think I would get off with a one season suspension from paintball? No. I'd be in jail awaiting my departure for pound me in the ass prison. So then why is ok to break someones neck in hockey? Is hockey some seperate lawless entity in which anything goes? Because they just set that precedent.

[Dangerous55]

We are not saying he shouldnt be punished. He should. But to bring law into it is taking it to far. That is all we are saying.

Just to let everyone know, he didn't break his neck like everyone thinks he did. This isn't like C. Reeves. Moore's spinal cord wasnt damaged at all and from waht I hear, will eventually play again.

[opaopajr]

it still sounds like those who are taking this in such stride haven't really watched the video.

if a picture is worth a 1000 words, and this is around a 20 second video, there's 10s of 1000s of words that simply are not getting through. no matter of words here is gonna change that.

all you have to say is: i saw the video and thought it was no big deal, not requiring law getting involved.

and all i have to say to you is i completely disagree wholeheartedly in a manyfold complex manner that in no way will get through to you. no sense wasting my time.