Take your freedom of speech and SUCK IT.

[KodiaX987]

This is ridiculous. When I'm not being assaulted by some outlandish group like the Christian Mothers For Political Correctness, I run across people who believe free speech is a God-given right and it should be universally accepted.

Fuck no.

If there was true freedom of speech, I'd have the right to do absolutely anything and claim it's art and thus a freedom of expression. I kill twenty children, freedom of speech! I throw booze cans on cars, freedom of speech! I spam E-Mail accounts, freedom of speech! Can't do anything against me, 'cause I am expressing my freedom of speech! Find this intelligent? Me neither.

So why the hell are today's Internet users so pussied-out that they need to hide behind the first amendment whenever they say something? In case you don't know already, the Internet belongs to everyone and no one. You come on my forum, paid with my money, on my server? I expect you to abide by my rules. I don't care how harsh or odd my rules are, you abide by them or you get out. I've been to website forums that'll ban you if you use an Anime avatar. Do I complain? Fuck no. This isn't my playground.

You wanna duke it out for freedom of speech? Sure, that'll shut you up even faster, seeing as a mod will instantly jump on you and lock your thread. Freedom of speech doesn't exist on the Internet. Your freedom is limited to what the admins give you. No one's forcing you to hang out here. If you want more freedom, seek another meeting place, because your crusade isn't my problem.

Case closed!

[Cowboy]

Thank you! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[ABDUR101]

As taken from the PSOW Forum Rules:


You understand that all posts of any nature are subjected to rules and there is no complete freedom of speech and PSOW is not a democracry.


I suggest everyone check the forum rules every once in a while, to get refreshed in what they are, and for any additives to them. To insure that no rules are broken and mod actions are fully understood.

[Ness]

A-fucking-men!

You know what's even more annyoing that people who come to your board and won't obey the rules? People who try to change the rules of your board just because they don't agree with the rules on their board. There is a such things a overstepping your boundaries and it works both ways too. Some admins try to take control where they have no jursistdiction and some forum users try to hide behind the 1st amendment where no democracy exists.

What many people fail to realize is that Constitutional Rights (or any other laws in their country) don't protect them on the internet. When you are one someone's site, they are the dictator and you are jsut a citizen of their community.

[LollipopLolita]

man i don't fucking care what you do on your own time and what you say, but if you post here obey the rules. you're not special and the world does not revolve around you. you're just another user, another username to me. we have no room for pontification



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LollipopLolita on 2004-03-21 20:19 ]</font>

[KodiaX987]

On 2004-03-21 20:12, LollipopLolita wrote:
man i don't fucking care what you do on your own time and what you say, but if you post here obey the rules. you're not special and the world does not revolve around you. you're just another user, another username to me.



Saying "Amen" would've been faster. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif You like to complicate things, huh Lollipop?

[LollipopLolita]

i'm currently fucking pissed beyond words. had to take my mind off things somehow and distract myself, so yeah. besides, this kinda thing have been happening a lot here lately. there are no bounds to some people's egoes. we should just let psow forums turn into gamefaqs, then i don't fucking have to care about anything that goes on here!!

[hollowtip]

Well, technically freedom of speech applies to the internet as well, it's just that when an individual warrants a ban whether it's in an online gaming session, a forum board, or even an FTP site, that specific individual doesn't face any real legal ramifications.

For the most part, I think the PSO moderators on the board are fair, and only the more outlandish posts receive locks or edits.


You come on my forum, paid with my money, on my server? I expect you to abide by my rules. I don't care how harsh or odd my rules are, you abide by them or you get out. I've been to website forums that'll ban you if you use an Anime avatar. Do I complain? Fuck no. This isn't my playground.

True, but if the rules are so ridiculous for someone to follow, your community will start to diminish because of the lame dictatorship (or democracy depending on how many mods or operators you have) your building. #PSO on EFnet was a perfect example of this, often spawning numerous threads (at least 4 or 5 if I remember correctly) on how stern and unreasonable the channel operators were being with bans and the like. Although I know this wasn't "officially" PSO-World's channel, nonetheless many users on these boards were the main moderators, and did enforce proposterous rules while abusing others.

Now the Channel is barely ever populated. I'm not completely highlighting these issues as the main cause for the channel's desertness since the Phantasy Star series popularity itself has trailed off, but it definitely contributed to it's deterioration.

So enforce all the rules you want to, just remember the more rules you enfore, the less your community is likely to conform, and if you like paying for webspace with a shrinking community, knock yourself out.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hollowtip on 2004-03-22 02:53 ]</font>

[decswxaqz]

It's your own fault if you join a forum without reading the rules. They are there to be read, you clicked to have accepted and read the rules.
If you don't agree with them, there is a button to cancel your account/subscription and leave the site. No harm done.
The site won't diminish because of bad rules, it won't grow at all.

Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean they aren't right. I just got an official warning for something I thought I shouldn't really have got(Or don't understand fully). Whilst I might not understand why, I accept that I broke the rules, and as such accept my warning.

A forum is a place of discussion. Not a place for flaming. Anything that will result in flaming should be locked because flaming has no use at all.

You'll understand if you owned a web site with a forum.

[Ness]

On 2004-03-22 02:46, hollowtip wrote:
Well, technically freedom of speech applies to the internet as well, it's just that when an individual warrants a ban whether it's in an online gaming session, a forum board, or even an FTP site, that specific individual doesn't face any real legal ramifications.


True. On the internet you can pretty much say/do what you want, but one individual websites, you don't have that luxury. It's the same in in real life as well. On the streets, you can say what you want, but in when you are in a corporate office, you must abide by their rules.




True, but if the rules are so ridiculous for someone to follow, your community will start to diminish because of the lame dictatorship (or democracy depending on how many mods or operators you have) your building. #PSO on EFnet was a perfect example of this, often spawning numerous threads (at least 4 or 5 if I remember correctly) on how stern and unreasonable the channel operators were being with bans and the like. Although I know this wasn't "officially" PSO-World's channel, nonetheless many users on these boards were the main moderators, and did enforce proposterous rules while abusing others.

Now the Channel is barely ever populated. I'm not completely highlighting these issues as the main cause for the channel's desertness since the Phantasy Star series popularity itself has trailed off, but it definitely contributed to it's deterioration.





I agree with you here. If you have too many rules, people will not want to come to your forum.

[LollipopLolita]

On 2004-03-22 03:03, decswxaqz wrote:
Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean they aren't right. I just got an official warning for something I thought I shouldn't really have got(Or don't understand fully).

you guys linked to a site with mp3's

as it says in the rules

Warez or illegal related content of any kind is grounds to be banned by our discretion.Links to such material as well as requests for it, are considered the same as posting the actual material. You may not ask for Warez, ROMs, or MP3s or ask for links to such sites containing specified content and you may not provide links to such sites.

and we do not allow this because it says specifically in the gamespy's hosting TOS that they don't allow this esecially rom's and mp3's because they're not legal. this was mentioned in rena's post in the thread. st as well has said that they prefer for us to not link to or put up pso mp3's since they are illegal. and we'd rather not get into legal troubles or lose free hosting by gamespy for something you guys did. we're on gamespy's servers, and we have to respect their rules as well. now if you had read and followed the rules, you wouldn't have gotten a warning. bottom line is, even though people toss links to mp3's around, it's still technically illegal. it violates copyright/intellectual property laws. gamespy and even gamespot both have rules that state "Any material protected by copyright may not be posted in the message boards without the expressed permission of the author or owner of the copyright on that material. "


On the streets, you can say what you want, but in when you are in a corporate office, you must abide by their rules.

even on the streets you can't do whatever you want. try shooting a gun off for funin the street and a corporate office. you'll get in trouble for both.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LollipopLolita on 2004-03-22 10:12 ]</font>

[Zaneatron]

On 2004-03-22 10:07, LollipopLolita wrote:


On the streets, you can say what you want, but in when you are in a corporate office, you must abide by their rules.

even on the streets you can't do whatever you want. try shooting a gun off for funin the street and a corporate office. you'll get in trouble for both.


but saying "Fuck you" to someone, and firing off a gun in the street are 2 very different things. admittedly, both are crimes (breach of the peace is for the "fuck you", for those who dont know, gun goes without saying). but the police arnt going to arrest every person who swears.
the problem is when you say that to the wrong person, and they pull a gun on you and start firing :S

[Scejntjynahl]

Me: "Dad why can't I play my music loud?!?!

Dad: "Because this is my house!!!

Me: "That is so fucking unfair, I live here too"

Dad: "Yes you do, but you did not acquire this house. When and if you do get your own place, even I have to agree to your rules... until then, you must follow mine..."

Me: "Dam, what of my freedoms...."

Dad: "Earn them, and do as you like, until that point, you must heed my words... I worked to get here, you are a product of my endeavors... I wanted a child, so I worked hard and here you are. All I expect is to follow my rules, I have earned them... and when you earn yours, I will respect them..."

Me: "....."

This forum is not my house, if I wish to do or say something against the rules posted here, I might as well create my own forum. Until then I will abide to the forum rules posted here within. Afterall, I am only a member and a guest, I have done nothing in acquiring or the creation of this forum. So, if I stay here, I will abide by the rules. If the rules become a burden, then I shall leave.

[opaopajr]

it's just a confusion over private and public spheres. it's easy for people, especially the young, to forget that, even though they are at home on their PC, in a country that allows very few limitations on public speech (oh yes, there's limits to your freedom of speech in public to be sure!) that when they go onto a private site they are no longer supremely protected by the gov't.

it's just like going to someone's home. sure, they can invite you in, you can chat, but if certain lines are crossed, they are completely within their rights to ask you to leave. if you resist they can force you to leave, using public law enforcement of course. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

no, no, it's true, too often people keep hearing that they live in the land of the free and that they have 'rights.' that's all well and good, but you really gotta know what those are and how far, or short, they go.

that said, what someone else said about it goes both ways and tyrannies become unpopular. well, yup, when people run things with draconian rule it's not suprising that places will empty out. and after awhile when everybody is chased out you stand over your entire lonely domain - that you have to maintain. no fun. there's a happy medium in between and wise hosts, both on websites and houses, know how to balance that.

[Daikarin]

"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to death your right to say it." - Voltaire, or some french dude.

There you go KodiaX. You used your freedom of speech to say what you think on this matter.

If you didn't have it, you'd have to PM Abdur101 to allow you to post your opinion.

[LollipopLolita]

On 2004-03-22 10:23, Zaneatron wrote:
but saying "Fuck you" to someone, and firing off a gun in the street are 2 very different things. admittedly, both are crimes (breach of the peace is for the "fuck you", for those who dont know, gun goes without saying). but the police arnt going to arrest every person who swears.
the problem is when you say that to the wrong person, and they pull a gun on you and start firing :S


still, try cussing your head off and scream however you want in the streets and you'll be held for causing a public disturbance. same reason why passive protestors get arrested. the point is that with every situation and place, there is a relative set of rules or maximum point of tolerance.


So, if I stay here, I will abide by the rules. If the rules become a burden, then I shall leave.

check the rules and you shall see that if you are unhappy with our rules, your only discourse would be to leave ^_^

our freedom of speech rule here on psow is relative. we're not going to be so strict as to censor everything. it basically boils down to using your head and common sense. our rules are not ridiculous and have at times needed additions or updates because of the negative actions or attitudes of the members here. they only become ridiculous for some people when and if they choose to misbehave or when it doesn't let them do what they want to do. the rules are set in place not for psow's benefit but for all of you, all of the member's benefits, enjoyment and protection because our aim is to create a harmonious community with common interests and goals where everyone can enjoy and benefit from. that's what people fail to realize. should we trust everyone to be on their best behavior and to think with some common sense and not have rules and mods? the majority of our audience and members are kids who think cussing and calling someone gay is cool. our rules and mods are there so that you don't have to deal with that, so your experience here for the most part will be enjoyable. that's the whole point as to why we call moderators moderators, because we mediate to try to achieve a balance. at the same time trying to not turn this into the efnet psow chatroom like hollowtip points out. do you realize how much easier it would be to not allow anything and abuse our mod powers depending on who we like and who we don't like? or if we agree with what you say or not (don't agree with me, and i'll ban you!)? do you realize the chaos that would bring? do you realize how much work goes into always trying to be fair, balanced and non biased just for you guys and the thought processes and discussions that goes behind all this, how we constantly have to put aside our feelings just to think about what's good for all of you guys?

at the same time we have to respect our host's rule since we're being hosted for free. it is everyone's playground, not just one person's. stop thinking about yourself and think about the community as a whole. if you can't get along and refuse to try, continue to be egoistic and think about yourself, then you don't really deserve a place in the community. it's not like we enjoy reprimanding everyone all the time, all the mods here will tell you they'd rather be enjoying pso themselves. people also do not value what they have at their disposal.

even in america's laws, while it says freedom of speech to all, there is still clauses to that law. besides we're not the american government. finally that first amendment was put in place to cover religious freedom, press, protests, government opposition, justice and equality and that right has been abused to no end by everyone to cover their own interests.

ahh i remember the old old days of psow when people were constantly complaining about the mods.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LollipopLolita on 2004-03-22 11:10 ]</font>

[Saladwood]

i think a lot of americans take their laws too litteraly.

JUST THINK! all of the laws are flexible and are interpreted differently depending where you're at in america.

just be glad your speech is as free as it is.

[_Ted_]

I think that KodiaX987 pretty much summed everything up in his first post.

[Ness]

On 2004-03-22 12:15, Saladwood wrote:
i think a lot of americans take their laws too litteraly.

JUST THINK! all of the laws are flexible and are interpreted differently depending where you're at in america.

just be glad your speech is as free as it is.



We don't have free speech in America. If the law doesn't punish you for saying something, then an easily offended asshole will sue you for it.

[flash_fire]

Freedom of Speech is relative. All the Freedoms in America are. As long as you don't harm anyone else's rights in doing something, then your Right to do it will probably stand. But we Americans need to understand that the Internet is NOT the USA.

[Eihwaz]

At some time in the past, Ness wrote:
A-fucking-men!


I agree.

Political correctness sucks so bad. I makes me so angry...

I dunno if any others heard about this, but recently, in my high-school district, there was a controversy over the novel "The Bluest Eye", which involves rape, incest, and other not-so-good stuff.

The mother of -ONE- child managed to almost get this book banned.

"Being force feed pornographic literature" my ASS. You can choose another assignment, generally, when a book can be deemed "contraversial".

Heh, remember the other times books were banned? Think Hitler and Stalin.

IMHO, I think books should NEVER be banned. Ignoring a thing because it's "disturbing" will lead to ignorance, which will lead to hate, which will lead to violence. Think WWII...http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

But yeah, political correctness sucks.

[navci]

On 2004-03-22 23:27, Eihwaz wrote:
Ignoring a thing because it's "disturbing" will lead to ignorance, which will lead to hate, which will lead to violence.


People are stupid. Period. They never learn.

[_Sinue_]

There is not such thing as Free Speach on the internet. Why? Because it's all private property. Every single bit of it is owned by SOMEONE. So every single place you go, you have to abide by that person's rules. They may wish to not limit your speach.. but that is their decision to make. Not yours. Only when you own your own piece of internet property.. do you get the right to speak your mind on your own little piece of the internet. Even then, everyone else who visits your site is limited, by your discression, on what they can and cannot say.

There shouldn't even be a discussion on this.. that's the facts. Want to test it out in real life to see if I'm right? Go to your local neighborhood McDonalds and stand in Kiddy Playground screaming obsenities non-stop at the top of your lungs. They'll tell you to leave, and if you don't, they'll have the cops force you to leave.. if not just arrest you outright.

People who claim the First Amendment gives them the right to say whatever they want, whenever they want, obviously don't know the first thing about what Freedom of Speach stands for or why it was instituted.

[opaopajr]

i previously made a post definining where the limits of public spech are, i'm sure someone can still find it out there.

what you guys are talking about with cussing in a park is about obscenity. that is explicitly not protected as free speech. yet this is the one area of free speech limits that actually has Supreme Court saying that they cannot be the final arbitors of obscenity and cannot make a definitive ruling - thus leaving flexibility in it.

otherwise the restrictions, and protections thereof, are pretty standardized. since cussing, especially in a playground, can be viewed by many communities as obscene you can get arrested. though there are some things that are completely protected. such as criticism of politicians. or general statements. that's why sandwichboard nutjobs can and do say what they want and aren't harassed. it's why sproul plaza (berkeley) is filled with impromptu speakers. you are allowed to speak your mind in america. though things like slander/libel - even posted upon your own private property, via front lawn or own website, can be fully prosecuted. your right to free speech in public, and even your own private property, is restricted in these extreme cases. but for the most part there's a great deal of protected freedom of speech out there.

i just wanted to point this out so we don't get confused.

about the 'net thing? well, the .gov sites are owned by the respective gov'ts, and our USA one provides the freedoms we enjoy. they are privately owned by a public entity (just like unclaimed land and preserves) ,the USA, and therefore are under the jurisdiction of the Federal authority. so it is an incomplete statement to say no free speech is allowed on the internet. surely it exists, for that is one gaping contradiction otherwise to the assertion.

so this whole "you fool! you got no rights!" is cute and all but also just as misguided as the "i'm completely 100% free everywhere!" view. there is a middle ground, and we as a country happen to lean heavily on the freedom side, respecting property rights as well as civil liberties. american's amusingly enough always flop onto extremes without realizing there's a real middle, and within that spectrum is where we stand.

so have your rants, it's all in good fun, but don't get all wrapped up in it. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[_Sinue_]

Well, obscenety is one part of it.. but you could also be standing there quoting Shakespear for the whole resturant and the same thing would happen. Swearing, expecially in the playground, just attracts attentions and shortens tolerances much further.

Regardless.. If they tell you to leave, you have to leave. You could claim it as denial of your freedom of speach, but the point is.. you're on their property. Noone is stopping you from saying what you're saying.. they stopping you from saying it on THEIR property.

[Ness]

The internet is kind of odd. It is owned by no one in that you can post anything on it, but yet all the place that you visit are owned by somone and thus you have to play by their rules when you are on that site.

[BogusKun]

On 2004-03-21 20:22, LollipopLolita wrote:
i'm currently fucking pissed beyond words. had to take my mind off things somehow and distract myself, so yeah. besides, this kinda thing have been happening a lot here lately. there are no bounds to some people's egoes. we should just let psow forums turn into gamefaqs, then i don't fucking have to care about anything that goes on here!!



But we should all control our anger. Especially since younger children visit the site...

I know I'm old! But are they old enough to say fuck in front of their moms?

(Some are http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif sad)

[KodiaX987]

On 2004-03-23 08:56, BogusKun wrote:
Younger children visit the site...
Dude, it's those guys who are the problem!! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif


I know I'm old! But are they old enough to say fuck in front of their moms?
I learned to say "fuck" at age 6. By the time I was 7, I knew the entire repertoire. And even then, I'm considered retarded cussing-vocabulary-wise.

[BogusKun]

Freedom of Speech is Hard to have on PSOW...

PSOW is a democracy http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[LollipopLolita]

i think you should reread the rules

[Armok]

Look total freedom comes at a cost.

For Example if pso world allowed pornagraphic links on this site the sponcers may drop out. Younger kids would be outcast and the community would be changed to a different group of ppl. Therefore most us current memebers would prob end up leaving.

If america allowed total freedom of speech then threatening ppl would be allowed. Racist remarks allowed. Telling ppl how to build dangerous weopons and how and where to use them would also be fine.

You ppl have seen PSO lobbys. Cos sega does not pay much attention to lobby spammers and racisism on the servers you get jerks just doing it all day annoying ppl do you really want that in real life i dont.

[Ness]

On 2004-03-25 03:27, Armok wrote:
Look total freedom comes at a cost.

For Example if pso world allowed pornagraphic links on this site the sponcers may drop out. Younger kids would be outcast and the community would be changed to a different group of ppl. Therefore most us current memebers would prob end up leaving.


PSO World will be alot worse off if they legalized porn. During my travels, I have been to a forum ywhere that stuff is legal and it's not pretty.

[opaopajr]

oh poo. i probably shouldn't have said what i said. now you are all level headed and aren't nearly as enjoyable when you were ranting your heads off.

oh well, i guess something good came out of it. but i still miss the entertainment factor.