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Genoa
Mar 22, 2004, 04:41 PM
I was bored, and I was searching a whole bunch of topics in my Microsoft Encarta 2002. I had found some video game history with Sega and Nintendo. (the following is directly from M. Encarta)

Sega Enterprises Ltd., leading manufacturer of home video games, portable video games, and video-arcade games. The company also operates amusement facilities. Sega is based in Tokyo, Japan.

Sega has its roots in two Japanese companies founded by Americans. The first, Rosen Enterprises, Ltd., was started by David Rosen in 1951. In 1954 Rosen began importing instant photograph booths from the United States to Japan. In 1957 he began importing coin-operated arcade machines. The other company, Service Games Company, was founded in 1951 by Raymond Lemaire and Richard Stewart. Their company began importing jukeboxes and slot machines to U.S. military bases in Japan and later began manufacturing coin-operated amusement games in Japan.

The companies merged in 1965, forming Sega Enterprises, whose name derived from the words service and games. Sega soon scored a success in Japan with an arcade game called Periscope. Sega also exported the game to the United States and Europe. In 1969 Gulf & Western Industries bought Sega. Sega’s growth accelerated with the video-arcade industry boom that began in the late 1970s, increasing sales from $37 million in 1978 to $215 million in 1982. But the boom quickly ended, and in 1983 Sega’s revenues dropped sharply.

In 1983 Gulf & Western sold Sega’s U.S. assets to Bally Manufacturing Company. The following year Rosen and Japanese investors bought back Sega for $38 million. In 1986 Sega established Sega of America, Inc., in Redwood City, California, to sell games in the United States. In the mid-1980s Japan-based Nintendo Co. revived the home video-game market in Japan and the United States with its 8-bit entertainment system. Nintendo dominated the market until 1989, when Sega introduced its 16-bit Genesis system with superior graphics. Sega also had success with its Sonic the Hedgehog character, a rolling blue hedgehog featured in a series of the company’s video games.

In 1991 Sega introduced Game Gear, a portable gaming system with a small full-color display. In 1994 in Japan the company opened the first of its interactive theme parks, Joypolis, featuring virtual-reality technologies. In 1995 the company released its 32-bit Sega Saturn game system, featuring a CD-ROM drive and improved graphics. The system faced competition from PlayStation, made by Sony Corporation, and from Nintendo’s popular 64-bit system, introduced in 1996. Also in 1995 Sega teamed up with media giants Tele-Communications, Inc. (TCI) and Time Warner (now AOL Time Warner) to launch the Sega Channel, an interactive cable-television channel that allowed subscribers to download game titles through the use of a special adapter.

The company introduced its first games for personal computers in 1995, reflecting the growing importance of computers in the home gaming market. The following year Sega introduced a modem that allowed Sega Saturn owners to connect to the World Wide Web through a television and to play games with other players over a network.

In 1999 Sega debuted Dreamcast, a 128-bit video-game console, in the United States. Dreamcast featured realistic three-dimensional graphics and speed—at the time of its release, it was the most powerful home video-game console. Like its predecessor, Sega Saturn, Dreamcast offered players the ability to play against other players via the World Wide Web. In 2000 Sega formed Sega.com, Inc., an online gaming company, and made Dreamcast game consoles available free of charge to subscribers. In 2001 Sega stopped making Dreamcast because of lagging sales and focused its attention on creating game software.

Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Nintendo Co., Ltd., leading manufacturer of home video games and portable video games. Nintendo helped revive the home video-game market in the United States in the mid-1980s. The company is based in Kyoto, Japan.

Nintendo evolved from the Marufuku Company, founded in 1889 by Fusajiro Yamauchi. The company made playing cards for hanafuda, a Japanese game (see Cards and Card Games). In 1949 Hiroshi Yamauchi, the great-grandson of the founder, changed the company’s name to Nintendo Playing Card Company, Ltd., and improved its manufacturing capabilities with modern equipment.

In 1953 Nintendo became the first Japanese company to manufacture plastic playing cards. In 1959 the company began selling playing cards illustrated with Walt Disney Company characters, a move that led Nintendo into the children’s market. Four years later the company changed its name to Nintendo Co., Ltd.

In the mid-1970s Nintendo teamed up with Mitsubishi Electric (see Mitsubishi Group) to develop a home video-game system. Introduced in Japan in 1977, the new system, Color TV Game 6, played six versions of electronic tennis similar to Pong, a popular game pioneered by Atari Corporation in the United States. Nintendo opened a U.S. subsidiary, Nintendo of America, in 1980. The following year Nintendo introduced Donkey Kong, a coin-operated video-arcade game that became widely popular. The game’s mustachioed main character, Mario, starred in many of Nintendo’s subsequent games and became the company symbol.

In 1983 Nintendo introduced a home video-game system in Japan called Famicom. The system enjoyed enormous popularity, and by the mid-1980s 35 percent of Japanese homes owned Famicom. In 1985 Nintendo launched an American version of Famicom called the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES). The product featured an 8-bit computer, stereo sounds, and advanced graphics, and it was technically superior to anything else in the home video-game market at that time.

In the mid- to late 1980s Nintendo captured almost 80 percent of the U.S. market for home video games. Surveys found that Nintendo’s Mario character was more popular in the United States than Mickey Mouse. Nintendo’s Game Boy, a handheld video game system introduced in 1989, became extremely popular in the United States due to the success of Tetris, a game involving interlocking blocks.

Nintendo dominated the home video-game market until 1989, when Sega Enterprises Ltd. of Japan introduced Genesis, a 16-bit home video game that featured better graphics than Nintendo’s 8-bit system. Nintendo came out with its own 16-bit game system, Super NES, in 1991.

In 1996 Nintendo leapfrogged its competitors by introducing a 64-bit video game system, Nintendo 64. The system, developed in cooperation with Silicon Graphics, Inc., featured smooth three-dimensional graphics never before seen in home video-game systems. Initial consumer demand for Nintendo 64 outstripped supplies in Japan and the United States. Also in 1996, the company introduced its Pokémon trading cards in Japan. Pokémon cards and accessories proved wildly popular. Two years later Nintendo debuted Pokémon in North America, where they were equally successful. In 2001 Nintendo planned to release the GameCube, an advanced game console, to compete with the PlayStation2 from the Sony Corporation and the Xbox from Microsoft Corporation.

Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2002. © 1993-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

The thing that surprised me the most, is that Sega Dreamcast is a 128-bit system, just like Gamecube. But on a website I heard that the GC was better in graphic quality due to its poligomial configuration. But DC is still one of the top sytems 2 me.

Genoa
Mar 22, 2004, 04:47 PM
stupid encarta. the question marks are suppose to be ' apastrophies.... (can't spell... sry). I just found a little summary on the gaming world of the 90's.

Throughout the 1990s Nintendo and Sega competed for dominance of the American home video-game market, and in 1995 another Japanese company, Sony, emerged as a strong competitor. Sega and Sony introduced new systems in 1995, the Sega Saturn and the Sony Playstation. Both use games that come on CD-ROMS (compact disks). A year later, Nintendo met the challenge with the cartridge-based Nintendo 64 System, which has even greater processing power than it's competitors, meaning that faster and more complex games can be created. In 1998 Sega withdrew the Saturn system from the U.S. market because of low sales.

Outrider
Mar 22, 2004, 05:01 PM
Well, this is how I'm fairly sure it's supposed to be. The PS2 is a 128-bit system. The Gamecube is technically a 64-bit system, but it has dedicated processors for specific functions, which make it more powerful. The X-Box is a 32-bit system, just like the vast majority of home PCs. And yet the X-Box is the most powerful, followed by the GCN. Funny how that works, eh? To be fair, I'm sure somebody with a lot more knowledge of the technical side of things could correct my mistakes.

If you're really interested in video game history, you should try Game Over (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966961706/qid=1079993003/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-4421858-8191801?v=glance&s=books) by David Sheff. It appears to be out of print, but I'm sure there are tons of copies floating around eBay or other websites. It's a pretty interesting read, and is all about the history of Nintendo. The most recent edition had an added chapter or two that detailed the Nintendo 64. I never actually finished the book, but I plan on doing it one of these days.

HAYABUSA-FMW-
Mar 22, 2004, 05:10 PM
I knew about the card-game roots of Nintendo through reading EGM magazine.

I didn't know about the history of Sega other than the consoles released at certain years.

Interesting, to say the least that its in your Encarta as a footnote in history for anyone to look up and read up on.

HAYABUSA-FMW-
Mar 22, 2004, 05:12 PM
Doublepost 2 minutes apart, yay!
Sorry folks. Not spam!

Yeah funny how they didn't go back to 1970's when gaming started.

-Edit, doubleposted, first in a while so don't razz me for it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HAYABUSA-FMW- on 2004-03-24 01:36 ]</font>

Genoa
Mar 22, 2004, 05:17 PM
GC is 64-bit huh, hmm, this changes alot (4 me atleast). I only play the games, I dunno how they work or stuff like that. Would be cool to learn how. Why can't school teach us something valuable like that huh! I'd be in that class http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif . Video Game System: Functions & Programming. 1-credit course ; 2 semester course. Yep, that'd be pretty cool.

Mr_Special
Mar 22, 2004, 05:20 PM
WHAT ABOUT COLECOVISION???

j/k...

Blitzkommando
Mar 22, 2004, 05:57 PM
On 2004-03-22 14:01, Outrider wrote:
Well, this is how I'm fairly sure it's supposed to be. The PS2 is a 128-bit system. The Gamecube is technically a 64-bit system, but it has dedicated processors for specific functions, which make it more powerful. The X-Box is a 32-bit system, just like the vast majority of home PCs. And yet the X-Box is the most powerful, followed by the GCN. Funny how that works, eh? To be fair, I'm sure somebody with a lot more knowledge of the technical side of things could correct my mistakes.

If you're really interested in video game history, you should try Game Over (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966961706/qid=1079993003/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-4421858-8191801?v=glance&s=books) by David Sheff. It appears to be out of print, but I'm sure there are tons of copies floating around eBay or other websites. It's a pretty interesting read, and is all about the history of Nintendo. The most recent edition had an added chapter or two that detailed the Nintendo 64. I never actually finished the book, but I plan on doing it one of these days.


You are getting two very very different things mixed up there. All three systems have 128bit graphics processors, the Dreamcast had one as well. The CPU however I do not know, though my guess they are all 32 bit processors. When it comes to bits in the processor world, well, a smaller processor can outperform a more advanced one. However they will generally though if it has, say, a 64 bit processor, it will perform faster, and more efficiently, than say a 32. Though the 64 bit processor has just been introduced into the home market, the AMD 64, it has been used by private businesses and, specifically, the government for years.

And as to the Gamecube having specific processors, well, they all have multiple processors. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif The Playstation 2 however has a rather inefficient design using dual graphics processors, which is why, even now, the graphics could still improve. It has made programming the visuals a bit more costly than the others. The PS2's primary processor runs at 285MHz (I believe, I do know it is the high 200s).

The Xbox on the other hand uses a modified Pentium 733MHz processor. It also, as many of you know, has a harddrive built in. Though, from reports and personal accounts, it is a rather, inexpensive one.

And then the Gamecube. Poor thing has one very... difficult to counter mistake. Disk size. I don't mean the actual disk, I mean the storage on them. While the Xbox and PS2 can both use a modified DVD (4.7GB) the lowly Gamecube uses a rather dinky 1.5GB optical disk. That and that it uses a top-loading mechanism versus the tray as seen in the PS2 and Xbox. This makes the disk unable to read quite as quickly, even so it still reads faster than the PS2. And the processor for the Gamecube clocks out at 450MHz, I believe, about the same speed as a high-end Pentium II.

Why is it that gamesystems clock at such lower numbers than PCs yet they still run 'faster?' Quite simple. Add up all the tasks a PC is running without any sort of nonrequired program running. That alone is most likely greater than what the gamesystems are processing. Add a game to that and even the almighty Xbox would fry out, especially with many online 3D games, for example Half-Life.

Now onto some rather new stuff. ATI has within the last year introduced, along with nVidia, a brand new level into graphics. The 256bit graphics processors. Both can be bought with 256MB of graphical memory and a clockspeed and processing power to make the past cards seem... Like they were meant for Windows 3.1. Now, PC games will naturally advance faster for a couple reasons. First being that no matter how much some people don't like it, even a moderate level PC can process much more, much faster than any gamesystem. Also, PCs advance faster than any other electronic device. Think about it. It was less than four years ago and most of us were using dial-up and a Pentium II or, if you had the cash to deal out, the brand new Pentium III 333 MHz processor. I myself was still using a 250MHz Pentium. Now look, we are using graphics cards more powerful than those computers. And the major reason why PC games will always be a step ahead. They don't have to be ported or built for a specific system. Most are designed on a bit more powerful versions of your home computer. This makes getting them out a snap. Controls are also a major difference. While a PC can use virtually anything to control, a game system is limited to the optional controls for it. Or else you end up spending a lot of dough on one game for the controller. *coughpsokeyboardcough*

Basically, the gaming world is on the dawn of a new era. Disk sizes are increasing, processors more powerful and faster, graphics becoming more and more real, we are on the edge of an era of electronic gaming that was unimagined by Atari in the days of Pong just 30 years ago. Be prepared world, for the era of electronic gaming has yet to begin!

Skett
Mar 22, 2004, 06:32 PM
That is quite interesting (even though I knew all that). For more information on this kind of stuff, I would go find The Ultimate History of Video Games by Steven L. Kent.

This book follows the very beginning of games, pinball to the beginning of the 128-Bit War (this one). It is written by Steven Kent, a gamer what has appeared on numerous shows, including G4's Icons.

Mr_Special
Mar 22, 2004, 06:48 PM
On 2004-03-22 14:57, BLITZKOMMANDO wrote:
Why is it that gamesystems clock at such lower numbers than PCs yet they still run 'faster?' Quite simple. Add up all the tasks a PC is running without any sort of nonrequired program running. That alone is most likely greater than what the gamesystems are processing. Add a game to that and even the almighty Xbox would fry out, especially with many online 3D games, for example Half-Life.



Solution: Linux.

actually, I know a couple of people who play games on Linux machines. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

HUnewearl_Meira
Mar 22, 2004, 07:11 PM
On 2004-03-22 15:48, Mr_Special wrote:


On 2004-03-22 14:57, BLITZKOMMANDO wrote:
Why is it that gamesystems clock at such lower numbers than PCs yet they still run 'faster?' Quite simple. Add up all the tasks a PC is running without any sort of nonrequired program running. That alone is most likely greater than what the gamesystems are processing. Add a game to that and even the almighty Xbox would fry out, especially with many online 3D games, for example Half-Life.



Solution: Linux.

actually, I know a couple of people who play games on Linux machines. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



Actually, there is a very specific reason for this.

When a game console is running a game, the game is the *only* thing that the game console is doing. It has dedicated hardware designed specifically to run this type of software, and it has absolutely *no* other tasks to distract it.

A computer, on the other hand, is not necessarily designed specifically for games. It hasn't been until fairly recently that hardware companies have realized that games sell, and have therefore made hardware to ease the load of games running on the computer; such as video cards with massive amounts of mostly unneeded memory along side 3D accelleraters, which otherwise wouldn't make sense to be included in a computer that uses a completely 2-Dimensional GUI. Specific hardware issues asside, a computer's task is to run the Operating System, first and foremost. The Operating System may instruct the hardware to run the game, but at the same time, it's keeping track of the time, performing various minor tasks at varying intervals, sending and recieving information from the network, monitoring its own functions, and a whole host of other things that I can't begin to list here. If you're on Windows XP, then just pull up your task manager (Ctrl+Alt+Delete), and take a look at all the crap running on the Process tab. Odds are, even if you're fairly knowledgeable about computers, you don't even know what half that crap is. What the hell is smss.exe, for example? Or tmlisten.exe? PccNTMon.exe?

So yeah, to sum it up, a game console is dedicated to one task at a time. A computer operates a great number of tasks concurrently. That's why games run better on consoles.

Genoa
Mar 22, 2004, 09:19 PM
0_o????...................(so clueless)

kevlar_pso
Mar 22, 2004, 11:47 PM
score one for the console gamer lol

_Sinue_
Mar 23, 2004, 05:22 AM
MegamanX.. you didn't know the Dreamcast was 128 bit?? I don't know why some people try to claim it isn't.. it doesn't make any sence. Yes, it's the least powerful of all the CURRENT generation consoles.. but it's still by far outpreforms anything put out in the 32/64 bit generation. It may have to do with Sega leaving the hardware market so early which gave the impression that they were part of the last generation. It was never considered anything but "Next Gen" when the great "DC/PS2" fanboy wars were raging. If you take a look at Shenmue 2, and compair that to the Sega Saturn version.. you can really tell just how big of a leap in graphics there is. Also.. the DC's potential was stymied by quick polished ports from the PSX by 3rd parties. Anything first party or designed specifically for the DC shows it's true potential. Really.. it's just that Sega is the first out the gate. If Sega were still manufacturing hardware, the DC2 (or whatever) would probably already be released in Japan by now.. with a US launch comming up this Christmas.


The CPU however I do not know, though my guess they are all 32 bit processors.

No.. the original assessment was right. Sony's "Emotion Engine" was the worlds first true 128 bit processor. Nintnedo's "Flipper" is based off of the Apple G4 processor. Not sure the bit-rate.. but I believe it is 64 bit. The Xbox has a slightly modified Pentium III processor, which like all Intel processors, is only 32 bit. The bit-rate of a processor determines how much information can be processed per clock-cycle. A 128 bit processor running at only 500Mhz would still out-preform a 32 bit processor running at 1Ghz.

This is also the case when compairing the Xbox to the PS2. If you look at benchmarks.. the PS2's EE just thrashes the Xbox's PIII. However, the archetecture in both machines are vastly different. Whereas the PS2 relies mostly on the EE (it's VU1 & VU0 in particular) to handle most of the PS2's graphical capablilities.. the Xbox uses it's CPU mainly to only run things like game physics, AI routines, and other things. Xbox's superior graphics are attributed to it's Nvidia GeForceIII based graphics card which handles many effects in hardware which the PS2 is forced to process through software.

Not sure if it's still up.. but Arstechnica.com had some wonderfully written and broken down explanations of both systems and how they work. Potentially.. the PS2 is a very potent machine.. but bottlenecks in both the archetecture and cost of development limit it's potential severely.