Are the ID's balanced? [Archive]

astuarlen

Apr 17, 2004, 03:43 PM

Gah, silly people, can't we all just admit that Bluefull > all? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif
I think they're decently balanced, depending on how you classify "good" drops, but no where near perfectly. Although there are certain IDs people traditionally consider better, there is no absolute best ID. Certain IDs do excel in different areas and weapon types (Redria:units :: Purplenum:mechguns http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif), but they also have weak spots.
Personally, I can usually pick out at least a couple items I'm interested in in every ID in every area on ultimate (area being Forest, SS, etc), the key phrase being "I'm interested in", because it basically comes down to my preferences. Some would say that there are absolute best weapons, generally based on power, but you know what? I prefer something that looks spiffy or matches my costume over TEH UBER SWORD OB DOOM!!!11! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif For example, most people agree that Spread Needle is one of the best RA weapons; I don't think it's the best for me. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif It doesn't match me, the short range is something I find annoying, and I have neither enough power nor ATA to make it dish damage or paralyze with any consistency. >_> But most imporantly, I never use mine because I think other weapons are more fun. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif
So I guess if we say "balanced" means "every ID has roughly equal access to weapons of comperable power" (that includes drops and drop rates), no, they're not balanced. But on the flip side, I don't believe there are one or two or three best IDs for all people. There can be a best ID for an individual or maybe a group of players who judge weapons based on the same criteria, however.

brownpile > bluefull > redria http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

PaleKid15

Apr 17, 2004, 06:54 PM

Hrith

Apr 17, 2004, 08:01 PM

Just two things to say:

1) I do not think Redria is a good ID overall, Redria has excellent exclusive items, which pains me, because otherwise I do not like it that much.

2) Spread Needle being the most performant is subjective, I take your Spread Needle or even S-Rank Needle anytime with my S-Rank Shot (unless you are soloing).

Jason

Apr 17, 2004, 08:48 PM

Like Kef said, Redria do have some items that are too great that others do not have. And Skyly being the only ID that can get a Sealed J-Sword but...

Section IDs are there for some reasons. One reason is that if you have online or players for Multiplayer offline, you can hunt items that your ID cannot get by playing on the other player's game with that player being the leader of the team with a different ID. And if every section ID can find everything: then there's not as much point of trading unless a player is too lazy to hunt for what he or she wants; the purpose of going online is reduced; there's no point of playing a game of a different section ID of a player to hunt for something that certain ID can find; and vice versa.

[ This Message was edited by: Jason on 2004-04-17 18:53 ]

Firocket1690

Apr 17, 2004, 08:57 PM

On 2004-04-17 18:48, Jason wrote:
Section IDs are there for some reasons. One reason is that if you have online or players for Multiplayer offline, you can hunt items that your ID cannot get by playing on the other player's game with that player being the leader of the team with a different ID. And if every section ID can find everything: then there's not as much point of trading unless a player is too lazy to hunt for what he or she wants; the purpose of going online is reduced; there's no point of playing a game of a different section ID of a player to hunt for something that certain ID can find; and vice versa.

That's one of the faulty loopholes in the whole PSO Section ID thing. You're only allowed four characters. Max of four IDs.If you want to collect items, either you
a) pay money to ST, buy a modem, go online, trade
or
b) pay money to nintendo, buy memory cards get more IDs

either way, they're profitting off it. =/

astuarlen

Apr 17, 2004, 09:37 PM

You not liking Spread Needle doesn't make the weapon any worse for you. You just don't like it. It's still the best performance wise. And performance is what this is all about. Alot of people use weapons for looks, and that's fine. But that has absoloutely nothing to do with what is "best". And you were kidding when you said that you think Bluefull is the best ID right?

Would it make you feel better if I said, "Spread Needle is not the best for my playing style"? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Because my liking it does make it worse for me, as I have less fun, and having fun is what (I presume) it's all about. Even performance-wise, I would say it is not "the best". It's difficult to compare the SN to other weapons because it is (barring S-Rank Needle, which hasn't been released yet) of a unique type. Maybe you could explain its magical awesomeness? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Which brings me to another puzzling point. Perhaps we don't agree what's "best" because best means different things to us? I've got two definitions here: "the superlative of good" or "most satisfactory, suitable, or useful; most desirable". As far as I can tell, what you consider the best is the most powerful, correct? Unfortunately, SN is most certainly not the best in that respect for my character. My 45 hit charge vulcans or S-Rank Twin do more damage and kill more quickly, even taking into account the fact that SN hits multiple targets. Additionally, I maintain that "best" is subjective, as it is merely "good"--that ever-so vague term we love to throw around--to a higher degree. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

As for bluefull, of course it is the best (XD) ID! None can doubt the awesome and mind-boggling power that is this most exalted of IDs. Bow before it. Feel the holy light of bluefull bathe your sinner's skin! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif But, seriously, brownpile is better.

Meh, I went off on a tangent, but that's ok, right? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Just felt like sharing my oppinion. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Apr 18, 2004, 12:18 AM

The Section ID's are not balanced, simple.

Pinkal, probably being the worst. Even though it's the easiest place for Agito 1975 and I still don't think it's worthless, but if I had found as many as Palekid I might think it is http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Bluefull I'm excited to level up, even though everybody says it sucks. Which it probably does... it's only for those few, "Specials," XP

And my only reason for an Oran is Twin Chakram.

I think Purplenum, Skyly and Whitill are the most unbalanced section IDs -_- (Of course, I shouldn't say Skyly, since 2 of the 3 stages where they get good rares are the worst stages in the game... i.e. Caves and Temple)

(And I'm still to tired to say anything logically. I should go to bed before I post more XP)

PaleKid15

Apr 18, 2004, 12:22 AM

I should probably clarify. I am offline only. Thus, all of my opinions are in referance to offline. My offline-ness is why I make such a big deal about ID's. It's easy for online people to say that the ID's are balanced and that ID's aren't super important. Because they are not confined to just their ID's, and they see more enemies (thus increasing their chances of getting the hard to find rares). Offline only= yor ID could define your entire PSO experience. In my case, first char= Pinkal HUmar. I have since despised Pinkal and try to convince people to avoid it because it and certain other ID's could make you hate PSO.

NiNeTeeN69

Apr 18, 2004, 12:25 AM

i actually agree with you on that one.
Online you can trade get any weapons you want from other ID's, Offline you gotta do all the dirty work by yourself.

Apr 18, 2004, 12:29 AM

On 2004-04-17 22:22, PaleKid15 wrote:
I should probably clarify. I am offline only. Thus, all of my opinions are in referance to offline. My offline-ness is why I make such a big deal about ID's. It's easy for online people to say that the ID's are balanced and that ID's aren't super important. Because they are not confined to just their ID's, and they see more enemies (thus increasing their chances of getting the hard to find rares). Offline only= yor ID could define your entire PSO experience. In my case, first char= Pinkal HUmar. I have since despised Pinkal and try to convince people to avoid it because it and certain other ID's could make you hate PSO.

Of course, some of us network our characters so we each only have a few Section IDs... >.>

Well, I was online, now offline until I can get a BBA (So that's why I now have all 10 section IDs).

What's worse in your mind palekid, Pinkal, or Bluefull http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Cheep

Apr 18, 2004, 01:23 AM

On 2004-04-17 16:54, PaleKid15 wrote:
You not liking Spread Needle doesn't make the weapon any worse for you. You just don't like it. It's still the best performance wise. And performance is what this is all about. Alot of people use weapons for looks, and that's fine. But that has absoloutely nothing to do with what is "best". And you were kidding when you said that you think Bluefull is the best ID right?

Based on the number of votes, it seems that people still won't pick a side (or they just don't care, lol). I was kind of hoping for more votes, but still, the majority agrees that the ID's are not perfectly balanced. To all one of you who think otherwise, u r teh pwned.

[ This Message was edited by: PaleKid15 on 2004-04-17 16:56 ]

Dude,spread needle gives me a poor performance and apparently for him too. The best weapon is the one you have most fun with.
The ids ar sort of balanced in that they have stronge points and weak ones. Some appear to have little good things unless you degrade yourself to pipe,I've also noticed. Some are stronger with certain weapons,some with units. They are balanced in that you can't really have just one and get that many different types of weapons. There is no best id,its which ever has the drops you like,or I suppose your favourite colour...

magicmage119

Apr 18, 2004, 02:28 AM

On 2004-04-17 23:23, Cheep wrote:

On 2004-04-17 16:54, PaleKid15 wrote:
You not liking Spread Needle doesn't make the weapon any worse for you. You just don't like it. It's still the best performance wise. And performance is what this is all about. Alot of people use weapons for looks, and that's fine. But that has absoloutely nothing to do with what is "best". And you were kidding when you said that you think Bluefull is the best ID right?

Based on the number of votes, it seems that people still won't pick a side (or they just don't care, lol). I was kind of hoping for more votes, but still, the majority agrees that the ID's are not perfectly balanced. To all one of you who think otherwise, u r teh pwned.

[ This Message was edited by: PaleKid15 on 2004-04-17 16:56 ]

Dude,spread needle gives me a poor performance and apparently for him too. The best weapon is the one you have most fun with.
The ids ar sort of balanced in that they have stronge points and weak ones. Some appear to have little good things unless you degrade yourself to pipe,I've also noticed. Some are stronger with certain weapons,some with units. They are balanced in that you can't really have just one and get that many different types of weapons. There is no best id,its which ever has the drops you like,or I suppose your favourite colour...

That arguement just does not hold water. Simply because YOU suck with using spread needle doesn't mean it's bad. It just means you are not good with it for some reason. It is still one of the best weapons in the game. Now, there are clear cut "Top 5" weapons of each type and some IDs can find veeeery few of these weapons if any and some have veeeery bad drop rates. Fact is, certain IDs easily find extremely good weapons that other IDs have little or no hope of finding.

SolRiver

Apr 18, 2004, 02:53 AM

90% of PSO community shouldnt even care about section ID... why? 90% of PSO players use dupes anyway... US side at least

Personally I think bluefull and pinkal are just a bit over doing on the ultra common rares... What is the point of having 3 same item from 3 different monsters in the same stage? It is not like those gae bolg or storm wand indra going to be too useful... Personally ST was doing every ID just fine, then they run out of time or got lazy and quickly toss whatever into bluefull and pinkal... that's how I felt like when hunting with pinkal or bluefull.

[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2004-04-18 00:54 ]

Primrose

Apr 18, 2004, 04:04 AM

No, many people here dont use dupes (research reasons put aside), which i find a very nice thing, this and vega are yet two different worlds and playing experiences...

My opinion on section IDs you already have, the reason why i wont post more is i have said enough. The problem is, the whole discussion stretches out to a discussion of which class is best, which item is better, which item suits which class best, if youre offline, if youre online, how many memory cards you have, as you can already see in the first few posts, this might end exactly the same.

magicmage119

Apr 18, 2004, 04:12 AM

Somehow, I don't think this will end with someone deciding to make a new topic for people to discuss it. Ya know, cause this is that topic and all.

Garm

Apr 18, 2004, 07:21 AM

it's close but some are a bit better. like the difference between purplenum and greennill its almost nothing. I checked the interesting/good drops and it comes close to 22 greennill only and 24 purplenum only (25 with the pwand) and their only drops are equal(sp?) IMO. Also redria is a great is for finding armors and units, but when it comes to weps redria is getting weaker. skyly, bluefull and oran have great weps but are weak at the unit/amor department. pinkal is an heaven for fo's but for hu's or ra's... Whitill is a good Id with some very nice exclusive items and weps but agian the units and armors could be better. yellowboze is a decent id wich shouldnt give any probs. viridia finds alot of shots (wich aint very good IMO) but compenstates(sp?) this with the devil/battle and all the agito's/katana's. (red, skyly and green is all you need IMO)

magicmage119

Apr 18, 2004, 07:25 AM

viridia finds alot of shots (wich aint very good IMO) but compenstates(sp?) this with the devil/battle and all the agito's/katana's.

Devil/battle is not as good as god/battle and all the agitos/katanas isn't that great of a compensation.

Hrith

Apr 18, 2004, 09:12 AM

Viridia finds alot of shots (wich aint very good IMO) but compenstates(sp?) this with the devil/battle and all the agito's/katana's.
Devil/battle is not as good as god/battle and all the agitos/katanas isn't that great of a compensation.
That's your opinion, I like shots better than Needle when not soloing, and I really like Katanas, and thanks to Viridia I have all Katanas in game (excluding the 3 S-Ranks, not released yet).

Personally I think bluefull and pinkal are just a bit over doing on the ultra common rares... What is the point of having 3 same item from 3 different monsters in the same stage?
Skyly Mines :
Gillchich - Justy
Dubchich - Justy
Vol Opt ver.2 - Justy

Oran GDV :
Merillia - Cross Scar
Ul Gibbon - Cross Scar
Gee - Cross Scar

And there are others.

magicmage119

Apr 18, 2004, 10:55 AM

I like katanas too, it's just that most people don't so you gave to keep that in mind. Or at least, that's the impression I have gotten since I've come here...

Apr 18, 2004, 03:22 PM

On 2004-04-18 07:12, Kef wrote:
That's your opinion, I like shots better than Needle when not soloing,
Wow... someone who likes shots better than Needles... o.o (I mean, other than me @_@).

Or do you prefer soloing? XP

(excluding the 3 S-Ranks, not released yet).

3 SRank Katanas? o.o? SRank J-Blade... and...

Hrith

Apr 18, 2004, 03:43 PM

S-Rank Katana, S-Rank Harisen, S-Rank Hammer.

S-Rank J-Blade was the name on DC, now it's S-Rank Katana.

Apr 18, 2004, 04:03 PM

Excuse my ignorance on the SRanks, but wouldn't the harisen be a sword?

And what about the hammer? What is that based off o.o (Can only think of Brave Hammer, but that's a Rod)

Dragon_Ash

Apr 18, 2004, 04:08 PM

the harisen battle fan is the katana type... huge battle fan is the larger sword version of it...

as for the hammer, they might either be reffering to the s-rank mallet or toy hammer that is also used like a katana

PaleKid15

Apr 19, 2004, 01:12 PM

On 2004-04-18 02:04, Primrose wrote:
No, many people here dont use dupes (research reasons put aside), which i find a very nice thing, this and vega are yet two different worlds and playing experiences...

My opinion on section IDs you already have, the reason why i wont post more is i have said enough. The problem is, the whole discussion stretches out to a discussion of which class is best, which item is better, which item suits which class best, if youre offline, if youre online, how many memory cards you have, as you can already see in the first few posts, this might end exactly the same.

And what's wrong with that. This is a board for discussing PSO. And those is the majority of PSO. Everyone says, "...is too situational..." Well, this is a place do discuss those situations.

PaleKid15

Apr 19, 2004, 01:23 PM

Kef- I am also saddened by redria's exclusive drops. They make redria a must have ID for offliners, and the rest of the ID is kind of dissapointing. It has it's moments (God/Units, MKB, Lavis...), but it gets a little discouraging at times. I myself find redria's description a little misleading. (...Finds alot of high quality armor...) The only armor I have found with my lvl 136 redria FOnewearl is a Sacred Cloth. Redria is however, the best support ID IM(C)O. Whitill + Purplenum + Redria = A decent-good chance of finding +90% of all desirable items. I really wish I could go back and start over in PSO. I'd have a Whitill HUnewearl (my current favorite character), A Redria RAmarl, And a Purplenum FOnewearl. The past 2 years of PSO would have been 10x as productive if I had known how influential ID's were and which ones were best when I first started playing.

PurplePower1

Apr 19, 2004, 01:29 PM

it matters what you like, guns, swords, or wands

PaleKid15

Apr 19, 2004, 01:36 PM

On 2004-04-19 11:29, PurplePower1 wrote:
it matters what you like, guns, swords, or wands

no it doesn't. For the fricken millionth time. This debate is not about preferences, it's about performance.

BTW- You see how this works people? 2 topics with alot of posts, mostly repeating themselves in each post, and people still don't get it. This is why I'm pro-genocide.

Evil_Althena8

Apr 19, 2004, 02:03 PM

On 2004-04-19 11:36, PaleKid15 wrote:

This is why I'm pro-genocide.

Me too! Of all palekids!

DezoPenguin

Apr 19, 2004, 02:21 PM

On 2004-04-19 11:36, PaleKid15 wrote:

On 2004-04-19 11:29, PurplePower1 wrote:
it matters what you like, guns, swords, or wands

no it doesn't. For the fricken millionth time. This debate is not about preferences, it's about performance.

Actually, it's about both. Which is the problem. You can have an objective discussion about statistics (Yasminkov 3000R is better than Yasminkov 7000V). You can't have an objective discussion about aesthetics (Show of hands, here--who'd rather have a 7kV because the pump-action shotgun looks way cooler than a longbarrel P08 Luger?).

The problem is that the question of "What's the best Section ID?" can't be answered without either making a matrix of choices or narrowing the topic down: Online or offline? One character or several? Playing style?

For example, I can't use daggers. Period. I'm useless at it; the only way I can get any use out of the things is if what I'm swinging them at dies in the first combo. Half the time I'm so useless at it that my combo gets interrupted my something dropping me on my hind end. My only use for a dagger would be an S-Red's Blade for my HUcaseal to give her S/D. Do I care about whether a section ID has better dagger drops? Forget it.

Likewise, I'm offline. Therefore S-Rank weapons need not enter into the equation (since anyone can get an S-Rank with equal efficiency, they can be the great equalizer--S-Rank Sword statistically negating many of the good points of Skyly, for example).

Or take, for example, a Purplenum versus Greennil comparison. Which is better? Probably P'num. Except if the player hates using Mechguns. Oops. Wait--what if the player is a Hunter? P'num probably takes the lead again...

Now, that's not saying that there aren't answers. You can say that one ID is better than another, in terms of finding statistically better weapons than others, given a specified set of criteria.

The problem is that no one ID or one set of IDs will solve every single person's set of criteria. Worse yet is when completely subjective factors ("I don't care about statistics! I wanna wield a Chain Sawd!") get mixed in.

Ultimately, the best you'll ever be able to do is say that ID X offers more solutions to more criteria than ID Y. Taken in a vacuum, that would make it "better." But none of us plays in a vacuum, so you'll always get debate. Likewise, there's no ID that can't satisfy some statistical criteria (Pinkal = "easiest 1975 Agito"), so you can't scratch it off the list entirely.

What we'd really need to settle the issue is a matrix table of at least the most common criteria with statistically-based recommendations for which ID or sets of IDs are necessary. Frankly, though, by that point I'd almost rather just point the person asking "Which ID is best?" at Sounomi's site and let them do their own damn math.

Scales_of_Air

Apr 19, 2004, 02:53 PM

On 2004-04-19 12:21, DezoPenguin wrote:

On 2004-04-19 11:36, PaleKid15 wrote:

On 2004-04-19 11:29, PurplePower1 wrote:
it matters what you like, guns, swords, or wands

no it doesn't. For the fricken millionth time. This debate is not about preferences, it's about performance.

Actually, it's about both. Which is the problem. You can have an objective discussion about statistics (Yasminkov 3000R is better than Yasminkov 7000V). You can't have an objective discussion about aesthetics (Show of hands, here--who'd rather have a 7kV because the pump-action shotgun looks way cooler than a longbarrel P08 Luger?).

The problem is that the question of "What's the best Section ID?" can't be answered without either making a matrix of choices or narrowing the topic down: Online or offline? One character or several? Playing style?

For example, I can't use daggers. Period. I'm useless at it; the only way I can get any use out of the things is if what I'm swinging them at dies in the first combo. Half the time I'm so useless at it that my combo gets interrupted my something dropping me on my hind end. My only use for a dagger would be an S-Red's Blade for my HUcaseal to give her S/D. Do I care about whether a section ID has better dagger drops? Forget it.

Likewise, I'm offline. Therefore S-Rank weapons need not enter into the equation (since anyone can get an S-Rank with equal efficiency, they can be the great equalizer--S-Rank Sword statistically negating many of the good points of Skyly, for example).

Or take, for example, a Purplenum versus Greennil comparison. Which is better? Probably P'num. Except if the player hates using Mechguns. Oops. Wait--what if the player is a Hunter? P'num probably takes the lead again...

Now, that's not saying that there aren't answers. You can say that one ID is better than another, in terms of finding statistically better weapons than others, given a specified set of criteria.

The problem is that no one ID or one set of IDs will solve every single person's set of criteria. Worse yet is when completely subjective factors ("I don't care about statistics! I wanna wield a Chain Sawd!") get mixed in.

Ultimately, the best you'll ever be able to do is say that ID X offers more solutions to more criteria than ID Y. Taken in a vacuum, that would make it "better." But none of us plays in a vacuum, so you'll always get debate. Likewise, there's no ID that can't satisfy some statistical criteria (Pinkal = "easiest 1975 Agito"), so you can't scratch it off the list entirely.

What we'd really need to settle the issue is a matrix table of at least the most common criteria with statistically-based recommendations for which ID or sets of IDs are necessary. Frankly, though, by that point I'd almost rather just point the person asking "Which ID is best?" at Sounomi's site and let them do their own damn math.

Exactly... Everything anyone needs to read and understand about this forum is right there. People posting here need to realize that most of this is OPINION and that the opinions of others will differ from their own. IF everyone could heed that well, we wouldn't have these foolish arguments about Spread Needle because it all comes down to what suits a player best; in his character class, playing stlye, and personal preference; and that WILL vary between the PSO players here. Now yes, there are statistics, and certain IDs apply to certain things better than others. But people aren't random calculators that factor statistics alone - everything else is thrown into the equation as well, which includes the above with opinion etc. THIS is what creates the disagreements, because, again, people VARY, and if we didn't have opinions none of these debates would rise and this forum would end in the first post with a list of percentages and item types. That's that.

[ This Message was edited by: Scales_of_Air on 2004-04-19 12:54 ]

DezoPenguin

Apr 19, 2004, 04:04 PM

Come to think of it, a better solution than a matrix of charts would be a set of essays on the strengths and weaknesses of each section ID, like there started to be in the Guides. Something laying out the benefits for each section ID for various character classes and purposes.

But then again, that again makes me want people to read the charts. I have enough to do with doing my own math for my own needs, thank you.

Primrose

Apr 19, 2004, 04:44 PM

Not exactly my words, but that sums my opinion up DezoPenguin.

On 2004-04-19 11:12, PaleKid15 wrote:
And what's wrong with that. This is a board for discussing PSO. And those is the majority of PSO. Everyone says, "...is too situational..." Well, this is a place do discuss those situations.

Theres nothing wrong with that, the thing is, it stretches, meaning to discuss about the whole thing you need a lot of knowledge to back your arguments up, because youre not only talking about IDs, but also items, (and everything related to it, such as technique boosts, special attacks, special abilities, stats, equippable by, findable on, ATP variance and Shifta bonus, Grinders) classes, offline/online, quests, technique boosts, probabilities, advantages/disadvantages etc.
Its not only reading drop charts, its knowing a whole lot more than that, reading between the lines maybe.

magicmage119

Apr 19, 2004, 05:06 PM

See the thing is, you REALLY can't factor in peoples preferences about "it looks cool so I want it." Just because there are weapons people like for looks, doesn't mean that those weapons are better. There obvious weapons that are superior to others and, as such, some IDs are better than others. You really have to go by how useful a weapon is for most people. Fact is, some people ARE better with certain types than others but the MAJORITY are good with a different type.

Primrose

Apr 20, 2004, 04:22 AM

Yes but there are always advantages and disadvantages.
Spread Needle is a good example.
Advantage is, it has great speed for a multi target weapon, and Seize is a nice special to have, especially if you are not an Android or have Snow Queen. However, you have drawbacks, Spread Needles range has been cut down, it reduces EVP and has a horrible ATP variance, from 81-190 ATP.
Now compare it to a shot, while a Shot would clearly win if you compare the stats, everyone knows you have to take other advantages/disadvantages into account.
S-Rank Shot for example adds 260 to your ATP when fully ground, without the high ATP variance of a Spread Needle, you clearly do more damage. However, Shots are very slow, so Spread Needle is the winner in this area.
You see, opinions do count, its not all about stats.

magicmage119

Apr 20, 2004, 07:27 AM

On 2004-04-20 02:22, Primrose wrote:
Yes but there are always advantages and disadvantages.
Spread Needle is a good example.
Advantage is, it has great speed for a multi target weapon, and Seize is a nice special to have, especially if you are not an Android or have Snow Queen. However, you have drawbacks, Spread Needles range has been cut down, it reduces EVP and has a horrible ATP variance, from 81-190 ATP.
Now compare it to a shot, while a Shot would clearly win if you compare the stats, everyone knows you have to take other advantages/disadvantages into account.
S-Rank Shot for example adds 260 to your ATP when fully ground, without the high ATP variance of a Spread Needle, you clearly do more damage. However, Shots are very slow, so Spread Needle is the winner in this area.
You see, opinions do count, its not all about stats.

You realize that I NEVER said that it was solely based on stats. I said weapons more useful for most people. Like Spread Needle. Personally, I like Agito '75 (well Orochiagito) but a LOT of people don't (although bunch search for it) so I probably would take that into a lot of consideration when deciding the balance of IDs but in the end, you probably SHOULDN'T factor it in. Anyway, I gtg.

PaleKid15

Apr 20, 2004, 11:53 AM

For the last time people. I do not give a shit about people's opinions about looks, or preferences. Use facts. FE: The Spread needle vs shots. SN lowers your evasion, but the penalty is so small, it doesn't matter. Plus the fact that no enemy can hit you anyway. Shots have longer range and more atp. Online, a shot is more effective because you have other people to help slow enemies down the ATP makes the enemies drop faster. Offline, SN pwns because the enemies have lower evp, making the special more accurate and thus pretty much negating the enemies ATP (they can't move).

However, to compare the ID's, I think it would be best to use offline. Because as said above, S-ranks have a BIG impact. Not to mention the fact that you can change ID's at will online (join other games). These should be the parameters for comparison. Offline only, 4 characters (4 ID's). What would be the best choices? As Primrose said, we'll stretch the debate. If you are responding to this post (best 4 ID's + best 4 chars) Please do so In this format.

Character #1- ID#1-
Character #2- ID#2-
Character #3- ID#3-
Character #4- ID#4-

Then an explanation of your choices would be good.

Ketchup345

Apr 20, 2004, 12:08 PM

On 2004-04-20 09:53, PaleKid15 wrote:
Character #1- ID#1-
Character #2- ID#2-
Character #3- ID#3-
Character #4- ID#4-

Then an explanation of your choices would be good.

Ramarl
HUnewearl
FO* (which one is all on personal preference, I am neutral on this one)
Anything Else

ID 1) Redria- Almost a necessity for offliners, due to an insane amount of units (all but one God/*, and all of the Cure/* units), best Slicer, nice HUnter finds. Reccommended for any non-android (due to it having some of its best items as pipable).

ID 2) Purplenum- Mechguns are better than Rifles at a point and Purplenum shares some of Greenills best finds (I do like Greenill's place to get the Yas 2kH more than Purplenum's), and Purplenum gets the most useful Rifle anyway, along with the Spread Needle. Fins a ton of great RAnger items, along with a good chance at Mechguns with Hit% for HUnters and FOrces. Also has some good FOrce findings (such as the most realistic chance of getting a Psycho Wand). Reccommended for anyone (unless you plan to pipe the Psycho Wand, then non-androids only).

ID 3) Whitill- Good Ranger and HUnter finds. Finds all but one Red weapon I believe. Mechguns are the secondary find, which are good for everyone. Only ID that gets both Guld and Milla (if you want to spend that much time). If you like te Agitos, Whitill is tied for (or best at; 9 is better than http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif finding the Agito 1975.

ID 4) Hmmm... Maybe Yellowboze- Covers anything that isn't covered alreay with their varity of finds.

PaleKid15

Apr 20, 2004, 12:34 PM

I guess mine would be

RAmarl = Purplenum
HUnewearl = Whitill
FOnewm = Redria
HUcast = Yellowboze

I chose RAmarl because thay are the best solo character available when properly equipped.(IMCO) I chose Purplenum because it can provide the mechs w/hit that my non- FO's will require, and the P-wand for my FOnewm. AMong other things.

I chose HUnewearl because they are also excellent solo characters. Like the RAmarl, S/D/J/Z lvl 20 are quite helpful, and make up for the chars relatively low atp. I chose whitill because Ruins and Seabed are whitills best areas, and I find those areas to be easiest and most fun with a HUnewearl. (note: may switch ID's with HUcast, haven't decided yet)

I chose FOnewm because he is the best caster (IMCO) and can clear areas with impressive speed. At high levels, he can even melee on occasion. I chose redria because Redria's mainstay is ep1, and that is the land of tech damage. The higher resistances of ep2 enemies make ep2 an ok place to visit for good drops (like MKB) but without penetrating megid, ep2 is mean to FO's. Redria mines are good, and FOnewms excel in that area.

I chose HUcast because Their super high atp will make runs of any area go quickly. They also get traps quickly. HUcasts do well in most areas. I chose yellowboze because, like the HUcast, It works well evrywhere. ALmost evr are has multiple worth-while drops, and the constant variation in possible drops makes it less boring. Yellowboze is one of the few cases in which the generic brand is good. You are less likely to find 20+ of the same common rare. Plus, Yellowboze mines can fund 4 characters easy (255 meseta in ebry box that drops meseta)

Xero_Silvera

Apr 20, 2004, 12:50 PM

HUcaseal : Skyly
HUnewearl : Redria
RAmarl : Purplenum
FOnewearl : Viridia

I chose my main character (the hucaseal) as a skyly because personally, i love swords. All melee weapons are personal favorites, mostly double sabers, swords and katanas. Skyly finds the best swords around, and alot faster then most other ids (oran runnnig up in 2nd place). Chain Sawd and Sealed J-Sword were just too good to pass up, along with a reasonable drop God/Arm from a gulgus-gue.. The ult caves have MANY great weapon drops.. Red daggers, red sword, chain sawd, red slicer, etc. It's just the all around best hunter ID for myself.

Redria is a must-have for all offliners, such as myself. It's as simple as that. (and, of course, lavis http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)

RAmarl was chosen as a greennill first, but i remade her because i found that mechguns with hit% are just ownage to most rifles, and i prefer them anyways (plus my hunters can use them as well.) Purplenum finds many of the greennill rifle drops, as does skyly (its the secondary drop rate for skyly).

My FOnewearl was also changed from the original ID, she used to have pinkal. Once i heard that pinkal was no different with tech disk drops then any other ID, i just decided to use her for my long-term goal of nabbing every katana in the game. Skyly has a decent amount of rods for her, and my friend has an oran who can trade her some rare wands when needed. The redria can find her decent armor, and thats pretty much all i worried about for her.

That pretty much explains it, ill leave the rest to the next post.
-xero

Hrith

Apr 20, 2004, 12:53 PM

Viridia RAmarl
Skyly HUcast
Whitill FOnewearl

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

DezoPenguin

Apr 20, 2004, 04:08 PM

Hm...these aren't my actual characters, but what I'd pick if I was choosing 4 now, based on my personal preferences and experiences.

HUnewearl/Redria--with multiple characters, having one be a Redria is pretty necessary for God/Battle and other handy ID-specific finds (plus she can fetch her own Kasami Bracer), and if I'm going to be piping for 'torrs, Lilies, and/or anything else a Newman is a great choice. I like regenning the TP the Ryuker cost just while beaming up and down. The class is my favorite Hunter; despite the anemic ATA I like to be able to play "baby Force."

RAmarl/Viridia or Greennil--I love RAmarls; they're the class best suited to my style of play ("shoot things and cast Rafoie when all else fails"). I'm inclined towards Viridia for easy Shots and easily pipable God/Powers, because most of what's good about Greennil is duplicated in Purplenum (see below). Easy Guard Waves are very tempting, though, and I actually enjoy using a Rifle, so Greennil appeals.

RAcast/Purplenum--With the exception of those darned Lilies for Psycho Wand and the 'torrs for Frozen Shooter (which I can get in Whitill anyway), Purplenum isn't really a piping ID, so I might as well give it to Fluffy. Yeah--I'd reverse Fluffy and Xai'ren's section IDs if I had to make them again. After all, with four characters, I can just trade items around anyway.

FOnewearl or FOmarl/Whitill--Frozen Shooter for my Rangers, Cure/Freeze, pipable Red weapons, nice armors, slicers for my HUnny...you get the idea. Probably I'd pick the FOmarl so I could go hunting Rico's Glasses and actually use them. ^_^ The Mil Lily Agito 1975, the pipable Electro Frame (for the RAcast) and the nice odds of S-Red's Arms don't hurt either--plus, hey, maybe I'll get insanely lucky and actually *find* a Guld Milla!