Making myself more "balanced"

[Cowboy]

Lets start off with a little disclamer.

I don't care if you disagree with me. This is meant to be sarcastic, but to still prove a point. I took marriage and family this semester, and the entire course has been the extreme point of view that the average urban white male should feel guilty that he "chose" to be born as such, and that everything he gets is not earned, and he only has because of his gender and ethnicity, which in some cases is true, but in many cases is pure and simple bullshit.

I will not deny that there is prejudice in the world. That is a fact. But another fact is that every dime I have, at age 17, I make myself. I pay for my truck and gas, pay for my insurance. I work over 50 hours a week, on top of being a full time college student.

My parents are both at the lower end of the middle class bracket. I don't work at a grocery atore or in an office. I do physical labor to earn my money.

I have seen a vast majority of latinos, african americans, and others that have things alot easier than I do, and iI have seen just as many that have things worse. the same goes for females. At the same time, however, I have seen just as many white males in each category.

Ok, now let's begin my little rant:

While I am happy with who I am, I suppose if I wanted to become more androgynous person,

there are a few things I could change:

Aggressiveness. I'm an aggressive person. If I know someone is lying, I call them out on it,

regardless of where we are, and chew them out for doing it. i want something, I try hard to get it.

From now on, I'm not going to chew people out for lying. What's that sir? It will cost me that $350

to do that? Oh well. Sure, my best friend got charged $210 for the exact same thing, but hey, I

want to be a more balanced person.I'm going to let myself get screwed over. Hmmm, I really want

this job, and there are alot of applicants.I'm sure that we're all about equally qualified, but they will

still pick me as the best person for the job. There's no need to call in and check on my status to

show interest in the job, like the last person that took the same job I applied for did. I need to be

more androgynous. I'll be a better person for it. So what if I'm unemployed because of it.

Strength. Since this is open to interpretation, I'll cover emotional and physical strength. Dangit,

my grandfather died a month ago. I need to call in sick for work, get fired, and mope around the

house in sorrowful mourning over his death. Becoming less emotionally strong and letting my

emotions take control of my life will help me be a better, more balanced person. I ahould also give

up my daily excercising and my bench pressing. I should move away from my farm, quit

exscercising, and get a nice job in a cubicle somewhere. I'll be fat, single, and at the lower end of

the middle class for the rest of my life until I retire at 70, at which point whatever relatives I have

will put me in a nursing home to rot away, but it will be worth it. I'll be less physically strong, and

be more in touch with my feminine side because of it. I'll be fat, poor, and single, and completely

happy with who I am.

Independence. I should quit being so independant. I should call up my friends every time I

have a problem without trying to figure out a sollution on my own. Sure I won't know crap because

I won't try to learn any new ways to solve problems, but hey, I'll be less independent. And when

my friends get tired of my bullcrap and drop me, I'll surround myself with new friends, no matter

what kind of people they are, to fullfill my "need" for companionship. Sure, Chico will sleep at

my house all the time, have to get bail posted once a week for possesion of drugs, will sell the

watch my dad gave me so he can buy a 12 pack of Bud Lights, and will yell "Want a hit?" while

I'm on the phone with my boss, but hey, I won't have to be on my own!

I think changing myself to become more androgynous is a horrid idea. I'm happy with who I am.

[Armok]

Wow a real rant for once. Personally I got really down about a personally situation last term which caused me to to my regular excising and basically in incredibly depressed and almost fail my year. But I pulled out of it otherwise I could have ended up down that first part of your rant scary thought.

[hollowtip]

Good rant... Very good rant.

I agree with all the points you make, especially about the equal opportunity clause you mention.

I still don't understand how congress can pass such legislation when it is obviously not equal for every race.

There is naturally going to be less hispanics, African Americans, and Native Americans in the work force because they are simply less prevalent based on population.

[Cowboy]

I know this. And I am not going to deny that there is prejudice. Prejudice exists, that's a sad fact of life. What I'm peeved about is people who say everything I have I didnt earn and got easy just because I'm a white male, which simply put, is not true.

[Solstis]

Affirmative action and good 'ol discrimination work in a perfect paradox.

Affirmative action claims to give minorities a chance to excel in life, which it does.

But then, there are those that are left behind because of it.

Now, those "whites" that were left in the dust, most likely, will be a bit angry and might feel prejudiced towards those darn black folk.

What Civil Rights leaders need to focus on is to get rid of discrimation as a whole, not to poke it with a large stick, aka Affirmative Action.

Now, I won't say that it isn't hard to be a white male, which it assuredly is, but I have seen the wonderfully ugly face of discrimination many times.

Sure, maybe I had an easier time of getting into college, but if my name was Jamal Azeed Roberts, or something "African," I certainly would have a hard time getting a job, wouldn't I?

Bah... very "odd" world we have here.

[Bradicus]

I have seen a vast majority of latinos, african americans, and others that have things alot easier than I do, and iI have seen just as many that have things worse.
O_o
Slight wording problem there.

[Cowboy]

I have seen people of ethnic groups other than mine that have things worse and better than myself*

[WraithVerge]

point and case, why I left my previous work place.

Me: White male, worked for 2 years - 25 cent raise.

Co-worker: Hispanic male, worked for 3 months - 1.00 raise

Same starting job, same experience, NOTHING different. What's the problem? He was related to someone high up on the corporate ladder >_<




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: WraithVerge on 2004-04-20 23:05 ]</font>

[Ness]

I think the one of the main reasons so many whites are against affirmative action is because they don't benefit from it. That's not true. Affrimative action applies to everyone, not just minorities. If a white person wants to get into an predominantly black or predominantly Hispanic school/company affirmative action will work in their favor.

As for being more androgynous, I'm not sure which point you were trying to make. Are you trying to tell some feminists to get off your back or are you saying something totally different?

[Daikarin]

On 2004-04-21 03:58, Ness wrote:
I think the one of the main reasons so many whites are against affirmative action is because they don't benefit from it.


That's part of it. Some do it due to high testosterone/ego levels (what's cool, etc) and others do it because they are mainly negative themselves inside (Frustration, angry, envy, xenophobism, etc).

[Siris]

On 2004-04-21 06:36, Even_Jin wrote:


On 2004-04-21 03:58, Ness wrote:
I think the one of the main reasons so many whites are against affirmative action is because they don't benefit from it.


That's part of it. Some do it due to high testosterone/ego levels (what's cool, etc) and others do it because they are mainly negative themselves inside (Frustration, angry, envy, xenophobism, etc).



Nah, I'm against it because I don't see how it benefits anything. lol The best person for the job should get the job period. It's not benefitting the company to hire someone less qualified based on color/sex, it's not benefitting the people who are more qualified and don't get the job, it's not benefitting the minority that doesn't have to work as hard to get the job, and it sure as hell not benefitting the whole "we are all equal" movement because it promotes separatism, does it not?

[Cowboy]

On 2004-04-21 03:58, Ness wrote:
I think the one of the main reasons so many whites are against affirmative action is because they don't benefit from it. That's not true. Affrimative action applies to everyone, not just minorities. If a white person wants to get into an predominantly black or predominantly Hispanic school/company affirmative action will work in their favor.

As for being more androgynous, I'm not sure which point you were trying to make. Are you trying to tell some feminists to get off your back or are you saying something totally different?



I'm saying that when someone says that every thing I own and all the money I have I only got due to my ethnicity and gender, they are jackasses. My teacher said this, so when he asked the class to turn in a paper on how we could "improve" ourselves by becoming more androgynous, I wrote this.

[Ness]

On 2004-04-21 07:25, Siris wrote:

Nah, I'm against it because I don't see how it benefits anything. lol The best person for the job should get the job period. It's not benefitting the company to hire someone less qualified based on color/sex, it's not benefitting the people who are more qualified and don't get the job, it's not benefitting the minority that doesn't have to work as hard to get the job, and it sure as hell not benefitting the whole "we are all equal" movement because it promotes separatism, does it not?



I too hope that we can live in a world without affirmative action, but unfortunately that is not the case. Believe it or not, there are several companies out there that would descriminate against race if it were not for affirmative action. This goes for all companies, be they predominantly black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc. Everyone as an instinct, not matter how small, to stick to their own kind. It was needed for survival back in prehistoric times and it will always be with us. There are things you can do to suppress this instinct (education, living enviroment, etc.), but it will always be there. Also, I don't get what you mean by "they don't have to work as hard for the job." They have to work just as hard as everyone else not only because the job requirements are the same, but because there are other minoriteis trying to get the job too.

[Siris]

On 2004-04-21 14:00, Ness wrote:


On 2004-04-21 07:25, Siris wrote:

Nah, I'm against it because I don't see how it benefits anything. lol The best person for the job should get the job period. It's not benefitting the company to hire someone less qualified based on color/sex, it's not benefitting the people who are more qualified and don't get the job, it's not benefitting the minority that doesn't have to work as hard to get the job, and it sure as hell not benefitting the whole "we are all equal" movement because it promotes separatism, does it not?



I too hope that we can live in a world without affirmative action, but unfortunately that is not the case. Believe it or not, there are several companies out there that would descriminate against race if it were not for affirmative action. This goes for all companies, be they predominantly black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc. Everyone as an instinct, not matter how small, to stick to their own kind. It was needed for survival back in prehistoric times and it will always be with us. There are things you can do to suppress this instinct (education, living enviroment, etc.), but it will always be there. Also, I don't get what you mean by "they don't have to work as hard for the job." They have to work just as hard as everyone else not only because the job requirements are the same, but because there are other minoriteis trying to get the job too.



It's pathetic to have to "work hard" to be the most qualified mediocre applicant when a white person may be the better person for the job. Wtf? How much pride can you take in that? Tell me untimately, how is saying I got this job because I'm insert race/sex here better in any way than saying I didn't get the job because I'm insert race/sex here. It's still basing something that should have nothing to do with race/sex on something that is all about race/sex.

[Solstis]

On 2004-04-21 14:44, Siris wrote:


On 2004-04-21 14:00, Ness wrote:


On 2004-04-21 07:25, Siris wrote:

Nah, I'm against it because I don't see how it benefits anything. lol The best person for the job should get the job period. It's not benefitting the company to hire someone less qualified based on color/sex, it's not benefitting the people who are more qualified and don't get the job, it's not benefitting the minority that doesn't have to work as hard to get the job, and it sure as hell not benefitting the whole "we are all equal" movement because it promotes separatism, does it not?



I too hope that we can live in a world without affirmative action, but unfortunately that is not the case. Believe it or not, there are several companies out there that would descriminate against race if it were not for affirmative action. This goes for all companies, be they predominantly black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc. Everyone as an instinct, not matter how small, to stick to their own kind. It was needed for survival back in prehistoric times and it will always be with us. There are things you can do to suppress this instinct (education, living enviroment, etc.), but it will always be there. Also, I don't get what you mean by "they don't have to work as hard for the job." They have to work just as hard as everyone else not only because the job requirements are the same, but because there are other minoriteis trying to get the job too.



It's pathetic to have to "work hard" to be the most qualified mediocre applicant when a white person may be the better person for the job. Wtf? How much pride can you take in that? Tell me untimately, how is saying I got this job because I'm insert race/sex here better in any way than saying I didn't get the job because I'm insert race/sex here. It's still basing something that should have nothing to do with race/sex on something that is all about race/sex.



Looong quote.

Yes, some qualified people are turned down due to their race. Unfortunately, it happens.

But cases due to affirmative action, I would imagine, are much less than those due to, let's say, bigotry.

I stand by pretty much what Ness said... it's not like the majority of businesses follow by affirmative "guidelines."

[Scales_of_Air]

Yes, America seems to have a fluzuating history of stupidity. I saw wonderful political cartoon once about congressional debates on immigration after we kicked out the native americans - the native american, in his new desert home, said "I think thses Congressional debates on immigration laws are silly, don't you?" Goes to show, again, the hypocracy of america. Affirmative action is an idiotic concept. It reverses, almost completely, the discriminatory nature of society to "make up for past wrong-doings." The idiots couldn't realize that this would NOT end segregation, but advocate it in a new way. What we really need is BALANCE in which the best candidate for a job, school, etc. gets it, regardless of anything else. The only thing that changed affirmative action was the Supreme Court case "California v. Bakke" which outlawed quota systems in the process of affirmative action, which only makes a change in theory - nothing happens in reality accept a lack of tangible quotas - they exist, or what is this 'take this person because he's of -this race- and we need to integrate diversity, but this person of white ethnicity is more qualified'? It's still discrimination regardless, and comes close to violating one of the Civil Rights Acts. I would go on to how the government uses the military as pawns, and if they had any sensitivity for the soldiers they would realize that people aren't expendible, but that can be saved for another rant.

[Cowboy]

Woah, me topic changed course from what I was expecting..

Anyways, there always has been, and sadly, probably always will be predjudices in the world. Hell, if people were all blue, we'd be areguing over who was a better shade.

[Siris]

On 2004-04-21 20:19, Cowboy-Duggie wrote:
Woah, me topic changed course from what I was expecting..

Anyways, there always has been, and sadly, probably always will be predjudices in the world. Hell, if people were all blue, we'd be areguing over who was a better shade.



Sorry Duggie...didn't mean to derail things. lol But, I did want to comment that my particular shade of blue rocks!!

[Ness]

On 2004-04-21 14:44, Siris wrote:

It's pathetic to have to "work hard" to be the most qualified mediocre applicant when a white person may be the better person for the job. Wtf? How much pride can you take in that? Tell me untimately, how is saying I got this job because I'm insert race/sex here better in any way than saying I didn't get the job because I'm insert race/sex here. It's still basing something that should have nothing to do with race/sex on something that is all about race/sex.



First of all, how would the person know that they got the job becasue they are insert race/sex here? They usually don't tell you that kind of stuff when they let you know that they have decided to hire you. Second, I never said anything about minorites working hard and only being mediocre. I was saying that you made it sound like minorites don't have work hard to get jobs.

[Siris]

"First of all, how would the person know that they got the job becasue they are insert race/sex here? They usually don't tell you that kind of stuff when they let you know that they have decided to hire you. Second, I never said anything about minorites working hard and only being mediocre. I was saying that you made it sound like minorites don't have work hard to get jobs."

Ness, responding to your first of all, that's kind of one of my points about the whole thing. If I applied somewhere that hired based upon sex/race I would always wonder why I really got the job, and it would be all too clear if I was hired and knew some of the other applicants were more qualified/more experience etc. IMO there's nothing to feel good about in that, I'd want a job because I am the best person for it. And to your second, competing against minorities to get a job is not my definition of working as hard as everyone else to get the job. Everyone should compete against everyone based upon what they can bring to benefit the company. The best person should get it whether they be white/black/blue/or hermaphrodites. That's just how I feel...maybe in a perfect world it would happen but, not here.

[Ness]

On 2004-04-22 16:41, Siris wrote:

Ness, responding to your first of all, that's kind of one of my points about the whole thing. If I applied somewhere that hired based upon sex/race I would always wonder why I really got the job, and it would be all too clear if I was hired and knew some of the other applicants were more qualified/more experience etc.


Of course you realize that just because somone has more experience doesn't mean they are more qualified for the job, right?



IMO there's nothing to feel good about in that, I'd want a job because I am the best person for it. And to your second, competing against minorities to get a job is not my definition of working as hard as everyone else to get the job. Everyone should compete against everyone based upon what they can bring to benefit the company. The best person should get it whether they be white/black/blue/or hermaphrodites. That's just how I feel...maybe in a perfect world it would happen but, not here.



I wish it would be that way too, but this is not a perfect world.

[Armok]

Ppl are not all equal in democratic society thats called communism lol. If you want an equal chance of getting somthing well its never gonna happen, someone is always gonna have a unfair advantage due to their different upbringing and social circle.

The best person for the job is often based on Sex/Race/Age. A employer is trying to project an positive image of itself to its customer. A male Lawyer for example will often hire an attractive female assistant because of the positive/successful image it projects of him.