Double Cannon or Black King Bar?

[Xero_Silvera]

I just want to take a moment to compare the BKB to the DC, scince i have niether yet and eventually I'll be hunting one or both..

To those of you who dont know what they are, here is the code:

BKB = Black King Bar
MKB = Monkey King Bar
DC = Double Cannon
MKB + Blue-Black Stone = BKB
Lavis Cannon + Syncesta = Lavis Blade.
Lavis Blade + Syncesta = Double Cannon.

All items except syncesta and blue-black stone are in the Rare Weapon Database (http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=listarticles&secid=8)

Here are the stats of both weapons:

Black King Bar
ATP: + 590-600
Max Grinder: 80
ATA: + 43
Special: Devil
Class: Twin Saber
Required ATP: 800
-------------------------
Double Cannon
ATP: + 620-650
ATA: + 45
Special: Sacrifices hp to unleash a mysterious wave attack.
Class: Twin Saber
Required ATP: 900

Now that you've seen that stat comparisons, I'd like to discuss the pros and cons of each. Firstly, if you want the highest ATP out of both, BKB > DC in that the BKB at max grind and max atp found is +760 ATP. The lavis weapons cannot be grinded, so that leaves a maximum ATP DC at +650 ATP. The BKB has 2 less ATA then the DC does, which isn't much but can still be taken in consideration. This said, the specials are quite different. The BKB cuts opponent's life in half, while the DC drains a bit of your own health to shoot multiple wave attacks in four fixed directions, which is really only useful in a crowd of enemies. Next, the difficulty of getting each varies. The only section IDs that find the Monkey King Bar and certain areas are these:

Skyly: Ultimate:Control Center: Mericarol
Redria: Ultimate:Seabed: Dolmolm
Yellowboze: Ultimate:Control Center: Mericus
Whitill: Ultimate:Control Center: Merikle

The whitill and yellowboze drops are from quest monsters only (online). Also, the blue-black stone needed to create the BKB can ONLY be found in the online Gallon's Shop quest, for photon drops. This limits offliners to the Monkey King Bar alone.
As for the DC, the code at the beginning tells us that first the Lavis Cannon (http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=137&sortby=class) is needed, and then two syncestas are needed. Although it will probably take you awhile to find these, its still fully available offline.
The last and probly least significant (dependng on your opinion) is that they both have very different graphics.
I'd like your input on what you think is better out of them, and a plausable reason why.

Special thanks to Eihwaz & Vulpes Mundi for helping with this thread

-xero



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Xero_Silvera on 2004-04-20 16:20 ]</font>

[Hrith]

BKB is more powerful and a lot less rare, if you don't care for looks, or if you like BKB better ( http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_barf.gif ), the answer is simple http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[LoreSeeker]

BKB is one of the most horribly duped items in the game, which is one of the reasons I don't use it at all. The other reason is that it's just plain ugly.

Double Cannon, on the other hand, is one of the coolest looking weapons in the game. Not only that, but you'll be looking original because everyone else will be using their BKB because of the extra ATP boost it gives you when you grind it to max.

[Xero_Silvera]

Forgot to post mine, i was so busy for 30 minutes typin that post up there... *sigh of relief* stupid HTML confusion..
Double Cannon looks much better, as previously mentioned twice. Scince im offline i cant obtain the BKB anyways, and getting lavis + syncesta x2 = more of a challenge anyways.
Thus making my choice the double cannon, im 60% for looks anyways http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
-xero

[Siris]

On 2004-04-20 16:22, LoreSeeker wrote:
BKB is one of the most horribly duped items in the game, which is one of the reasons I don't use it at all. The other reason is that it's just plain ugly.

Double Cannon, on the other hand, is one of the coolest looking weapons in the game. Not only that, but you'll be looking original because everyone else will be using their BKB because of the extra ATP boost it gives you when you grind it to max.



Well, being that I actually have a BKB, I like that one. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Mines legit and I know several other legit players who have one. The Double Cannon is the way more common dupe because people want to "look cool" they don't care what kind of damage they do with it...especially with their Al Rappys and ++ units equipped.

[Trugeta]

double cannon if you,ve already got a lavis.

[astuarlen]

Awww don't be hatin' on the Black King Bar. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Personally, I find it infinitely more attractive than that chunky monstrosity and eye-sore which is a Double Cannon. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif Obviously, the vast majority of the PSO community has different tastes than I do. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Nai_Calus]

Stag Cutlery > All.

[Xero_Silvera]

WRONG ANSWER, TOMMY!
*clicks doomsday device*

*nothing happens*

But really.. stag cutlery would be cool if females could use it.. i hate the male animations of things.. especially double sabers and twin swords..
-xero

[PaleKid15]

My Stag= 85/25/0/0/35 (without P spheres)

BKB is alot easier to obtain, I like the way it looks better too. But if I was not contained to these 2 choices, I would say the other DC. Demo Comet that is. Pipable, thus easy to get percents, fairly close in ATP. My Demo COmet has 30 Native and 50 dark. That 50 dark makes it better than BKB in ruins.

[Dragon_Ash]

i'd say double cannon... though the BKB is easier to make, the cannon looks and sounds a lot cooler, and even though the special is pretty much useless in ultimate, it can be very handy in the lower difficulties... other than that, it's harder to make... 12 star making it uber.. and i guess it's a weapon to be proud of if owned

as for the bkb, the special is also pretty much useless unless it comes with hit, but it can be found easier if your willing to hunt for 394+ mericarols, mericus, merikle or 1050+ dololms, and apart from that 45 photon drops are needed and the BKB needs 100 less atp to equip...

from experience it did take me rather long to get the l-cannon, though it could be the first or second or even 39th slime, getting the syncesta's was quite tough, Oran torr's have been pretty stingy with my drops, 1/60+ was the amount of torr's needed for my syncesta over an 9 month period, in which i gave up quite a lot... but luck varies to everyone >_>

also, you'd need Redria and Oran ID's for the double cannon, or a friend with the one of the ID's unless you plan on getting them from different ID's.

and one last thing, variable atp could also be taken into consideration, but i couldn't really say which would get the better shifta bonus if not any

but which one you want depends on what your looking for...

looks > power
or
power > looks

[Aztec_Mystic]

Lavis Cannon. I don't need to give you a reason, I just prefer it.

[Jason]

And blah blah blah, Double Cannon. Sure, the special isn't as good in Ultimate Mode but at least it can effect the bosses which the special attack of the Black King Bar don't.

[Xero_Silvera]

Thx for feedback, this thread took me a damn long time to type up with corrections on the grammar and html/bbcode... so ugh.. if ya could, the idea of the topic was to compare the two. Not opinions on other double sabers. Sorry to sound harsh, but that was the general mainstay focus of this thread. If i was online, id probly go for BKB then DC, but thats just cuz im a collector. I looked at the pic of Double Cannon and wow... I thought it was just a purple colored Double Saber (no special design, just two spear point things.).. Its just awsome compared to what i thought about its graphic, and IMO its easily one of the top 5 best weapon graphics.
-xero

[Jason]

On 2004-04-21 18:27, Xero_Silvera wrote:
Thx for feedback, this thread took me a damn long time to type up with corrections on the grammar and html/bbcode... so ugh.. if ya could, the idea of the topic was to compare the two. Not opinions on other double sabers. Sorry to sound harsh, but that was the general mainstay focus of this thread. If i was online, id probly go for BKB then DC, but thats just cuz im a collector. I looked at the pic of Double Cannon and wow... I thought it was just a purple colored Double Saber (no special design, just two spear point things.).. Its just awsome compared to what i thought about its graphic, and IMO its easily one of the top 5 best weapon graphics.
-xero



Here's a fact that you would like to know, or already knew: that purple colored Double Saber design which you thought is a Double Cannon is a Stag Cutlery in the Dreamcast versions and red for Ep I & II because red is the actual color for a Stag Cutlery. I don't know why it was purple instead in the Dreamcast versions.

[NiNeTeeN69]

All i go for is looks, Double Cannon looks and sounds better than BKB, not only that it special attack looks kooler too.

[SolRiver]

stag culery was red to me in DC =/

edit: well... pinkish red

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2004-04-21 23:41 ]</font>