The Great Force Disscusion (hopefully great anyway)

[Sierra]

What are your thoughts on the balance of the classes? most people will say that forces were roally gyped, and i'd have to agree with that. Hunters have the advantage of the highest attack, Rangers the highest accuracy, but force highest mst? well with my hunewearl, I do more damage with weapons then the forces i know do with high level spells. I do about 300-700 damage with shifta and deband cast (with delsaber sword and shield). what are your thoughts on this?

(please excuse any holes in my arguement lol)

[Sierra]

i just came up with some more....

Hunters and rangers each have good weapons that only they can use, ex. heavens punisher, Lavis. But do forces have any special weapons that make hunters any rangers envious? no. forces should have force-only weapons that make hunters sorry their not a force. also i think that forces should have force-only spells, that way it would actually be beneficial to be a force, any thoughts on this?

[Synch]

I agree with that, there should have been some force only spells, it would have been a good idea.

All canes, rods, wands, etc, are force only weapons. It would look silly for a hunter or ranger to be walking around with one of those.

As for good force only weapons, they can be a bit lame, but I still really want to get my hands on a PSYCHO WAND. Thats probably the most impressive. I've got C-SORCERERS CANE, CADUCEUS and MAGICAL PIECE which are all pretty good force weapons, especially when you have Shifta cast. They definitely look good on the battle field.

The only reason these weapons don't do as much damage, is because Force ATP doesn't go very high (which is a little frustrating).

[Sisqua]

While I agree with some of the sentiment above, I have to say that I find some of the 'why aren't forces better' debate a little bemusing.

I like the fact that forces are harder to play. I'm having way more fun the second time through with Laluki than I ever did with Sisqua (Ranger). I'm up to about lvl 71 with Lal, and I still find V.Hard a major challenge. I spend most of my time (especially in ruins) ducking and weaving, desparately trying to get spells off before things catch up with me, swapping my shortcuts around to try and optimise my performance, providing cover for other players who are in close combat etc etc...

Last night I played with a bunch of rangers who just sat at one end of the room with their spread needles, fired off 3 or 4 rounds and watched everything die in front of them. Wow! Run into a room, press the same button 3 or 4 times, run into the next room, press the same button 3 or 4 times, run into the next room... etc.... How dull is that!? Frankly I think some of the weapons that the other classes have are more of a curse than a benefit - they just rob you of all the decent gameplay.

S.

[Synch]

I agree with that Sisqua, which is why I'm having a forces only sesh for the next 3 nights (24th-26th).

Anyone interested you can find the force only session on EU:Iapetus11 from about 20:00 (Bristish Standarad Time). Team name is 'Force Power', pass is 'noweps', will be on V.Hard setting. No weapons allowed, just magic. Hope to see you there. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

[Lightning]

just to add to this, i'm a Humar, and i use a hell of a lot of TP in team games, as i tend to be the 'support guy' - i'm the one casting strategic spells when needed and healing the entire party (lvl 15 healing - AWESOME! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif ) while running around hitting things, and i wish i had higher TP just because of this

there's nothing wrong with being the supporting member of a team - it just makes offline play a little more awkward

[SuperSubZero]

On 2001-04-24 03:57, Sierra wrote:
i just came up with some more....

Hunters and rangers each have good weapons that only they can use, ex. heavens punisher, Lavis. But do forces have any special weapons that make hunters any rangers envious? no. forces should have force-only weapons that make hunters sorry their not a force. also i think that forces should have force-only spells, that way it would actually be beneficial to be a force, any thoughts on this?

The techs the other classes have are not useful offensively. Even with a L14 Foie, a high-level RAmar may do 60 damage against an enemy while a force of equal level does 160. Most of the offensive techs are basically useless to non-Forces except the freeze ones.

If there was no single player mode, I would agree with limiting techs. But the single player mode introduces alot of balance issues so giving players "a little of everything" is important.

-SSZ

[magenta]

Hunters have the advantage of the highest attack, Rangers the highest accuracy, but force highest mst? well with my hunewearl, I do more damage with weapons then the forces i know do with high level spells. I do about 300-700 damage with shifta and deband cast (with delsaber sword and shield). what are your thoughts on this?


with my force armed with a soul eater, and shiftaed i managed to do high range 600-800 dmg through special (though in hard, rare to achieve this in vhard, but 675 damage is common) Two hits kills nanodragons outright. ALso enables me to clear rooms of dimenians, and delsabers easily..

with double saber, i could do 200-300+ dmg per hit. Plus i have club of laconium with 50%native...hmm...fun in forest with that one..

of course this isnt just about tanking.. stragetically forces are the best support character out there, esp ones with high level spells, which do not necessarily have to kill enemies outright but do enough damage so that others have an easier time.

[Sisqua]

I played in a game with 3 other reasonably high level forces (all 70ish) a few days back and I have to say, that although one force on their own is not the greatest offensive character, 4 together absolutely kick ass. When you combine a number of different spells together in quick succession (e.g. Rabarta to freeze enemies, Rafoie to massacre them, and a couple of Grants to pick off any strays) the effect is devastating.

Sure other chars can do the same, but they can't do the same damage as Forces and they'd be in the shop every few rooms buying fluids whereas with our often 1000+tp we can stay out considerably longer.

S.

[SaitoH]

I'm just gonna say that I made a second force character. Sure their is no real advantage to playing them but out of the three classes available, forces are by far my favorite.

BTW, how can you not love those outfits http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif

[magenta]

yes... fomarls have the best outfits..
its also funny when youre armed with pan arms blades, and see their dress swoosh as they do a mid air roundhouse kick..

ahhh..still searching for one..sniff

[MechDan]

Forces could have been easily balanced against the other characters with any 2 of the following:

1. About 100 more max MST.

2. Powerful Wand/Staff MST bonuses of 50-100 for high tier wands/staves.

3. Shifta affects techniques.

Now Androids are harder to balance...

[Sierra]

Sorry i couldn't reply for a while (well, no one could) becaus eof the site being down. Yes i do think that forces are the best support character, but it is possible for a hunter to do as much damage with spells if thier mst is high enough. With 4 god mindsa and my 103 mind pitri equiped my mst is around 700 (not that impressive for a force, but very good for hunter) and i do about 200-300 damage with Rafoie. I realize that forces could do better, but thats pretty close to what high level forces do.

Also in version 2 i hpoe they have an option that lets you hotkey spells to the keyboard. the only reason i dont play a force is because of having to constantly switch around the configuration. does anyone else think this is a good idea?

[Synch]

I think that's a great idea. I hate keep having to swap spells around, it's most annoying.


Synch Lv95 FOnewm
[Dark_Arrow] Lv27 RAmar
DarkGuyver Lv25 HUcast

[Sierra]

With all the spells hot-keyed forces would be scary. Grants-megid-rafoie-rabarta copmbos and such http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_cool.gif I would want to play a force then!

Ps. can someone help me wioth my sig. i have no clue why it isnt working, it was working a minute ago and for some reason it just stopped loading. please help. thanks in advance.

[Torak]

i was just introduced recently to the joy of having a force. she is far more fun to play with than my HUmar ever was. sure, i'm only lvl 10, but i still kick butt. anyone who wants to join my FOnewearl some time, pm me and we can hang.

[merlin]

Count me in for hot keys...YES,YES,YES.That's my BIGGEST peeve,having to remap buttons so many times.Sisqua...you speak a lot of truth there.My RAmar is armed to the teeth and it's ALREADY too easy,adding in the fact that his techniques DO kick as much ass as Merlins did at mid level.He's gonna be scary at level 100!!!Oh,and sorry to burst your bubble Synch,...but the psycho wands sucks just as much as the rest of the weapons do.Oh well....

[Synch]

It's still gotta be the most awe inspiring Force weapon, even if the spells are random. That doesn't discourage me from wanting to get one. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

On to the power of each spell, shouldn't they do much more damage (and a mean a helluva lot more damage) than any spell that a hunter or ranger can use? I've seen some players with spells almost as good as mine, and I'm only missing a couple of Lv15 disks. Shouldn't spells go up to about Lv25 or 30, to give us forces a better fighting chance, after all thats what we are all about is spells.

Synch Lv95 FOnewm Oran
[Dark_Arrow] Lv27 RAmar Yellowboze
DarkGuyver Lv25 HUcast Yellowboze

[merlin]

Yeah,Sisqua that's EXACTLY what i mean.Our so called "special weapons" are totally lame assed and there are other classes that get the same spells as us.It's almost as if Sonic Team forgot to give the forces something awesome to look forward to along the lines of the heavens punisher,c-bringers,or bazookas et al........

[Deathkiller]

After playing my RA cast all the way to 100

i decided to try a force

it was..

...

interesting


and almost...

too easy...




Then i t hunter...


AND THAT WAS EVEN EASIER..


YOu realiz how EASY it is to ballance a hunter! NO woncer everone plays as hunters and forces! But if you want a real CHALLANGE like i DID you be an RA cast cuz DAM they are wierd

[lugus]

Sonic Team already anounced that all techniques will go up to lv 30 in Version 2.And their will also be Force only techniques http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif .On one of the clips of Version 2 theirs a lv 111 Fonewm doing a Foie on a Rag Rappy and it did 386 damage!That may not seem like a lot,but it's a start.If you wanna see the clip heres the link http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2708521,00.html its the 5th movie(22mb).



<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: lugus on 2001-04-27 22:08 ]</font>

[SaitoH]

On 2001-04-27 05:03, Sierra wrote:
ps.can someone help me wioth my sig. i have no clue why it isnt working, it was working a minute ago and for some reason it just stopped loading. please help. thanks in advance.


I believe the problem with your sig is geocities. I had my sig there and it just stopped working. I have mine hosted on homestead and so far *crosses fingers* no problems.



Oh,and sorry to burst your bubble Synch,...but the psycho wands sucks just as much as the rest of the weapons do


The special attack does suck, but i just carry the wand because of the 50% spell cost reduction. For that reason, (+looking cool) I think its an excellent force weap.

[Naer]

dunno if someone already put this on the thread, but a whole new set of techs and maybe class specific skills. I think the FO class is sorta balanced, they are the support for the team and I can say they are a bit more challenging to play because i have a high level FOnewm. Though the damage that a FO can do with tech that "blow crap up" so to speak needs some tweaking. Lets all hope that they get a really high MST stats in ver.2

[Sierra]

Saitoh- thanks, my sig works now.

Does anyone know what the force only techs are? and which do you think will be better, bunny-head-on-a-stick or Umbrella?

[SaitoH]

On 2001-04-28 03:07, Sierra wrote:
and which do you think will be better, bunny-head-on-a-stick or Umbrella?


Hmmm tough call. I think the Umbrella nicely combines weapon and functionality. While the bunny staff just screams "look at me....I'm cute". http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Mayi]

There IS the Psycho Wand that I cant equip Yet. BTW, what exactly does it do?

What force you use can make a Huge difference. Take the FOnewm's and FOnewearls, (Which I have) At levels as low as 30 they are extremely powerful. The strategies that are used for the two are different though. They are also one of the most useful classes in the Mines At levels 20 to 30 My Rafoie would wipe out things before Hunters could let off a single combo.

[Synch]

Well Mayi, as SaitoH already mentioned, the Psycho Wand reduces the cost of TP by 50%, plus if you use the special move it randomly casts Foie, Zonde or Barta. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

And I still haven't got one yet. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_frown.gif

And thanks for the info lugus, sounds like forces aren't going to have such a tough time after all. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

[Sierra]

Mayi: The psycho Wand does the following:

-reduces TP cost for all spells by 50%
-Its special casts a random low-level spell
-its the best force weapon (i think)

As for the age old question of bunny-head-on-a-stick vs. Umbrella (which I forgot to answer) I think Umbrella would be better.

[Mafu2k1]

On 2001-04-24 03:51, Sierra wrote:
What are your thoughts on the balance of the classes? most people will say that forces were roally gyped, and i'd have to agree with that. Hunters have the advantage of the highest attack, Rangers the highest accuracy, but force highest mst? well with my hunewearl, I do more damage with weapons then the forces i know do with high level spells. I do about 300-700 damage with shifta and deband cast (with delsaber sword and shield). what are your thoughts on this?

(please excuse any holes in my arguement lol)


the best part of being a force hits you at about lvl 65 or so. Then, you're spells (hopefully) are rather high. the thing that is substatially different between forces and humars is, sure, hunters can use magic, but why would they when they're attack is better and they dont have as much TP. let the forces freeze/shock the enemies, let the forces heal/shifta/deband you. the hunter should be greatful of the force(s) in their party. especially the racast and hucast. so there...



"Nintendo!"- American Hi-Fi
"Sega!"- Mafu

<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: Mafu2k1 on 2001-04-28 09:17 ]</font>

[dan-e]

The thing is with forces is that the techs just don't do enough damage (with the exception of grants). Megid is also good at a high lvl (when it hits).

I have a lvl 78 FOnewm and most techs are 14 or 15 now i just started a RAmar witha heaven punisher and he is doing 450 dmg with each shot from it. How is that fair? Why need spells when you can do more dmg in a wider area without the chargeup time? In my opinion sonic team didn't make force's strong enough but they sure are fun http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

[Synch]

I don't seem to see many FOmarls around, just loads of FOnewearls. I have one FOmarl that is a friend, but where are all the others hiding?

[Metaphysikal]

Really? I see nothing BUT FOmarls these days...not to mention everyone on this board is/has one.

[Cube]

I have or had all of the pso characters and i can tell you on a personal stance that i beleive HUcast are the funnest to play, with FOnewms in a close second. Its all on persoanl beleif.

[Branners]

Has the FOnewm model changed in PSOver2?

I saw a little of a video, and it looks as if the 'ass coat' and the platform shoes have gone.. he also looks a little chunkier.

Can anyone verify this?

[Ziro]

I'm kind of at a crossroad. My hunter(Ziro) is kewl and all but compared to my force(-EA-Iver$on) I crusied through the game with ziro. I like having a challenge in the game and with my new technical crozier(legit), the game is even more fun. Though I wished that Devine Punishment would be a force only technique(cause we all know forces would be alot better with).

[Sierra]

sorry about this.....but... *Bump*

[Synch]

Lol, Sierra.

Once again, I think it's an American thing, so as I don't play with many Americans, I've noticed the lack of FOmarls. I think there are too few a females out there playing PSO in Europe, or just not enough guys that don't mind playing a female character. What do you think?

[Sierra]

I'm a guy, and i play a hunewearl. that is because i like their....umm.. defence, yes thats it. I like their defecne.

[Synch]

hmmmm.......I think you like just looking at your HUnewearls ass a lot, hee hee. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif

Cause they do have such cute behinds. Personally I like them with long legs, but most I see are really short. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_frown.gif

Anyway that's completely straying away from the topic, so forget what I said. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

[SaitoH]

Guess I added to the FOnewearl infestation with LD50. At least she is as tall as possible though..........

last nite was crazy with the red ribbon gang in the puck 9 lobby. I couldn't stop laughing.

PS. LD50 is evil.......mUwAhAhAhAzzzz!!! >: )

<font color=turquoise><center>AVIENDHA lvl 100 Pirotess lvl 100
http://saitoh.homestead.com/files/psosig.jpg
<center>{DHS} LD50 lvl 32 SaiToH lvl 29 Megumi-chan lvl 55

<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: SaitoH on 2001-04-29 10:51 ]</font>

[Synch]

Aw no, I missed them, I can't belive it. I was on last night for a good few hours. Have to try again tonight then. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

[Sierra]

Lol i wanna be in that clan lol.... (off topic lol)