ATP variance and false advertising

[Jae]

For somebody who has access to the game code or something, is there a point at all to the "shown" ATP gains of a weapon? Take for example a Meteor Cudgel. Why is it that the Cudgel is labeled as stronger than a Demolition Comet in your Stats window, when in fact the Demo Comet will outdamage the Cudgel 95% of the time because of the "actual" ATP variance?

Inquiring minds want to know. Well mostly because I'm crazy bored today.

[NiNeTeeN69]

I dont really care if Demolition comet is stronger Metoer cudgel is a much prettier weapon to use, Demolition comet on the other hand, like i mentioned before has a stubby double sided cock shape & fruity colors (pink crystals) and looks oh so lame when a male uses it,i guess it looks ok in the hands of Hunewearl, in my oppinion Meteor Cudgel is more of a male tuff lookin weapon, so if all you care about is ATP but would rather look like a homo then use Demolition comet, if ya want style then go with Meteor Cudgel.

[DezoPenguin]

On 2004-04-23 13:45, Jae wrote:
For somebody who has access to the game code or something, is there a point at all to the "shown" ATP gains of a weapon? Take for example a Meteor Cudgel. Why is it that the Cudgel is labeled as stronger than a Demolition Comet in your Stats window, when in fact the Demo Comet will outdamage the Cudgel 95% of the time because of the "actual" ATP variance?

Inquiring minds want to know. Well mostly because I'm crazy bored today.



Well, I don't have access to the game's code, but thankfully I don't need it to answer the question. The amount you see in the character-status screen in-game is always the high end of the range, the maximum, no matter the size of the actual range.

For figuring out what the ranges are, I turn to Sounomi:

http://www.housoka.com/pso

[Dragon_Ash]

well the cudgel, and some other atp varience have their good and bad points... i'll use the cudgel as an example http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

even though the cudgel is stronger, it could easily do a lot less damage in a combo... say if it did 150 ish damage instead of 250+ it could mean the difference of an enemy being dead or alive... then again, it could also do a lot more damage per combo...

[Jae]

I see. Thank you for the clarification, that makes sense. I really need to bookmark Sounomi's charts when I get home. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-04-23 14:03, DezoPenguin wrote:
Well, I don't have access to the game's code, but thankfully I don't need it to answer the question. The amount you see in the character-status screen in-game is always the high end of the range, the maximum, no matter the size of the actual range.

For figuring out what the ranges are, I turn to Sounomi:

http://www.housoka.com/pso


This site lists the ranges in its item database too...

[Jae]

True enough Ketchup. However I do like the fact that the chance to drop per ID is listed under each weapon in Sounomi's site. Saves me the trouble of looking at that ign chart I posted earlier.

[Garm]

for the most power you'll need luck and the cudgel but the demo comet looks so much better (who wants a grey stick with 2 blue crystals?)

[magicmage119]

On 2004-04-23 14:01, NiNeTeeN69 wrote:
I dont really care if Demolition comet is stronger Metoer cudgel is a much prettier weapon to use, Demolition comet on the other hand, like i mentioned before has a stubby double sided cock shape & fruity colors (pink crystals) and looks oh so lame when a male uses it,i guess it looks ok in the hands of Hunewearl, in my oppinion Meteor Cudgel is more of a male tuff lookin weapon, so if all you care about is ATP but would rather look like a homo then use Demolition comet, if ya want style then go with Meteor Cudgel.



I don't think the topic creator cared about your personal preference. He just wanted to know about the ATP thing...

[magicmage119]

Edit: Apparentely I double posted so this post isn't here. Forget what you see. *Uses mysticness to make you forget about this post*



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: magicmage119 on 2004-04-24 18:46 ]</font>

[Eihwaz]

Hmm, perhaps your screen could be adjusted a bit, Ninteen? On my TV, the Demo Comet looks light purple, not pink.

I think those are the actual colors. And even if it was pinkish, I would still use it on my HUmar. It's such a great weapon. I find it hard to imagine anyone calling a metal baton studded with razor-sharp Photon shards "fruity". Heh. To each his own, I suppose...

Meteor Cudgel is good, too, BUT the ATP-variance can be annoying sometimes. I believe MC gets a bigger natural Shifta boost, though.

And Demo Comet is easier to find...

[Hrith]

On 2004-04-24 16:41, Eihwaz wrote:
I believe MC gets a bigger natural Shifta boost, though.
the wider the variance, the bigger the Shifta boost, which in turn give an even wider range since Shifta only applies to the higher ATP value


And Demo Comet is easier to find...
Play Whitill Ruins http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Soukosa]

On 2004-04-24 17:46, Kef wrote:


On 2004-04-24 16:41, Eihwaz wrote:
I believe MC gets a bigger natural Shifta boost, though.

the wider the variance, the bigger the Shifta boost, which in turn give an even wider range since Shifta only applies to the higher ATP value

Only weapons with an ATP variance get an additional boost from Shifta, so the Demo Comet would not get any boost at all.

[Jason]

Demo Comet is stronger than a Meteor Cudgel in my opinion, even though Meteor Cudgel have only 10 more ATP when both are fully grinded. I mean, use a Demo Comet on a Bartle for example. Inflict the special attack (devil) of it on the Bartle a couple times and then you'll be able to kill it in 1 or 2 combos. Faster than a Meteor Cudgel. Speed of killing counts too. But of course, if you're strong enough with plenty of ATP you'll be able to kill it quicker with the Demo Comet without the special attack of it but it'll be practically the same with a Meteor Cudgel with only 10 ATP difference (Meteor Cudgel have 4 more ATA too).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jason on 2004-04-24 19:42 ]</font>

[lain2k3]

On 2004-04-24 19:28, Jason wrote:
Demo Comet is stronger than a Meteor Cudgel in my opinion, even though Meteor Cudgel have only 10 more ATP when both are fully grinded. I mean, use a Demo Comet on a Bartle for example. Inflict the special attack (devil) of it on the Bartle a couple times and then you'll be able to kill it in 1 or 2 combos. Faster than a Meteor Cudgel. Speed of killing counts too. But of course, if you're strong enough with plenty of ATP you'll be able to kill it quicker with the Demo Comet without the special attack of it but it'll be practically the same with a Meteor Cudgel with only 10 ATP difference (Meteor Cudgel have 4 more ATA too).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jason on 2004-04-24 19:42 ]</font>


This isnt a debate with opinions, Demo comet is stronger than MC, period.

[Hrith]

and Dem Com does not have 10 less ATP than Cudgel.

[lain2k3]

On 2004-04-24 20:03, Kef wrote:
and Dem Com does not have 10 less ATP than Cudgel.



><

Fact: 97% of the time, demo comet will do more damage than MC.

close enough.

[Hrith]

you did not factor in Shifta, so this applies to droids only.

[Firocket1690]

On 2004-04-24 20:19, Kef wrote:
you did not factor in Shifta, so this applies to droids only.


S-Red's Blades !! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[lain2k3]

On 2004-04-24 20:19, Kef wrote:
you did not factor in Shifta, so this applies to droids only.



okay, with shifta, It's roughly 90% of the time.

point made.

[Soukosa]

*boots up calculator*
Let's see... with Shifta 30, the Meteor Cudgel would get a boost of about 124 ATP, making the ATP range of MC, 330 - 714. That would give it a median of 522, which is 58 ATP less than the Demo Comet's fixed ATP. Assuming, I'm doing things properly, the DC would do more damage than the MC 65% of the time. But, when you consider that the maximum amount of more damage that it could is only about 12 damage and that MC has 4 more points of ATA, I'd just about say that the MC is better.

[Jason]

On 2004-04-24 20:48, Firocket1690 wrote:


On 2004-04-24 20:19, Kef wrote:
you did not factor in Shifta, so this applies to droids only.


S-Red's Blades !! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif




Or the PB of the MAG, M&Y.

[DOG21313]

On 2004-04-24 22:11, Sounomi wrote:
*boots up calculator*
Let's see... with Shifta 30, the Meteor Cudgel would get a boost of about 124 ATP, making the ATP range of MC, 330 - 714. That would give it a median of 522, which is 58 ATP less than the Demo Comet's fixed ATP. Assuming, I'm doing things properly, the DC would do more damage than the MC 65% of the time. But, when you consider that the maximum amount of more damage that it could is only about 12 damage and that MC has 4 more points of ATA, I'd just about say that the MC is better.



Heh, I agree. When someone does more damage with a Meteor Cudgel than a Lavis Cannon, i tend to believe that it is good. (He had shifta 30 on if you havent guessed already) x.X

[Hrith]

more damage than Lavis with a Cudgel... smells like boosted % Cudgel =/

[DOG21313]

On 2004-04-25 08:12, Kef wrote:
more damage than Lavis with a Cudgel... smells like boosted % Cudgel =/



Hmm... Maybe, but I dont think it had a whole lot of %s, so the shifta must have made it gain a lot of atp.

I dont know. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[lain2k3]

On 2004-04-25 08:12, Kef wrote:
more damage than Lavis with a Cudgel... smells like boosted % Cudgel =/



I think he's referring to a full combo as well...

[Hrith]

to Lain, I don't think DOG was =/

to DOG, Cudgel with Lv30 Shifta will have 714 ATP, this being the maximum value, and the minimum value of the Lavis Cannon is 730 ATP -- minimum value is not affected by Shifta. So on the same char, it is impossible that Cudgel deals more than Lavis Cannon, except if it has good %

[DOG21313]

Erm... I did mean per combo...

He killed a bartle in one combo with MC while he did not with Lavis.

[lain2k3]

On 2004-04-25 10:40, DOG21313 wrote:
Erm... I did mean per combo...

He killed a bartle in one combo with MC while he did not with Lavis.



PWNed, Kef.

And MC hits 6 times, whereas lavis cannon only hits 3 times, so, umm, duh.

[Hrith]

yeah, the number of hits per combo was so obvious that I thought he was refering to the damage per blow =/