A question we all could benefit from...

[JGaff]

I'm after a Yasha. We all know it's rare. Housoka tells me it can be found Viridia and Skyly (I have both ID's). The Odds off a Ult Viridia Melqueek are about 1/67200 as opposed to Indi Belra in Ult Skyly Temple 1/28808.(Now read the below)


My question is, what truly can be the best odds in this type of instance? There are 3 caves and only two Temples. There are more Melqueeks in the caves, but the rate is lower. There is a better chance off the Belra, but they appear in groups and can be overpowering. Therefore, what would be the better odds in YOUR opinion? This was just an example. This can apply for rares that drop from multiple enemies in this type of situation.

I'm expecting to see VioletSkye or Kef post on this soon, and seeing as their words are true and well-spoken, I look forward to reading their responses when they do arrive.

[doubletake123]

well... you could unlock addicting food and there are more melqueeks, but getting a drop from a indi belra is insane especially when there are only like 2-5 in every temple run. I'd go with AF more melqueeks and good experiance.

[PhotonDrop]

Melqueeks are fun(stinkin cockroaches)

Try Caves, even though the rate is slower you should still put up with it, afterall, in this case you should go for quantity over quality.

Also, like stated previously, try to unlock Addicting Food, play it through once, but instead of getting the reward, quit the game, lather rinse repeat, always repeat.

[JGaff]

Let me chime in 1 more thing.


I'm doing this 2 player offline with

HUmar Viridia (Not quite 80 yet)

And/either

HUcast Bluefull 127
Ramar Skyly 104

I was leaning towards caves because I checked enemy counts and there aren't too many Belras. Besides, I could potentionally get more usefull rares from Caves. Anyone here ever found Legit Yasha? I'd like to here what you'd say. I'm still interested in what you guys have to say.

Yeah, I realize it's all about luck, but we know that's bullshit when the drop is this rare. You'll almost never find it on your first few runs.

[/end rant]

[lain2k3]

If you're offline only, I wouldnt even bother looking for it. Its not gonna happen if you cant do Ice spinner runs (121 melqueeks per run).

thats the only place people who were looking for yasha have even found it.

Its noth worth the effort without IS.

[Dragon_Ash]

Soul of a Blacksmith would be better for melqueeks, as there are 25 or so in that quest, most mainly being in caves 3, i almost found the yasha myself but it was nothing but a p-drop http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

and as for the question, i would stick to melqueeks, the quest they're in offer me plenty of exp while i hunt down the yasha

[JGaff]

Seeing as I can't get online, I'll have to endure. The Xp is fine, and is the other drops. Has anyone ever found it not in a quest?

If you're trying to save me some time, let me know if Sange+Yasha= Good weapon to make yourself Offline.

I Know it has tremendous power, and if you find it by mistake without looking i'd be a sweet pick, but what about actually looking for it?

Keep up the responses...

[lain2k3]

just a quick question Jgaff, how can you be 50% done finding something? or 25%?

you either have it or you dont.

[JGaff]

Well, It would be easier for me to retitle them as "Phases", but I never really thought of it the way you do.

0%= Haven't started
25%= Character with appropriate Id is available and near readiness to power level
50% Correct difficulty is unlocked
75%= Correct area open and runs are being made
100% Done, Cue next big ass project.

[lain2k3]

meh.

[Cc08]

Your chances are insane, but I'd go with the Melqeeks, who knows, you could get lucky. Or, it would take you a few years to find one. The Skyly Belra is not as good of an idea, because there aren't as many per run.

[Hrith]

4 months of Skyly Famitsu MA2 and Yasha dropped.

MA2, Temple part, is short, there are a lot of Belras, you can do the quest 5 to 8 times in one hour solo, depending on class and Lv.

I say do not even try the Viridia one, the drop is simply insane, the average is 556 Viridia IS runs to get a Yasha, and that is the average ! and as we know the lower the drop rate, the more unlikely the chances of getting the average.

meh... you're offline, go with Asuka >_>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kef on 2004-05-06 21:03 ]</font>

[EJ]

Since you are offline only I would go with Melqeeks



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ForceEJ on 2004-05-06 21:12 ]</font>

[iamfanboy]

Since you are offline I'D go with Kef's suggestion.

At least you can be SURE of getting the Asuka within only a few days of playing. Heck, I could go get one right now by running my Whitill FOnewearl a few times through the Ult Spaceship!

The thing about getting uber-rares like that is YES, it is an accomplishment, and yes you do feel good, but.......

What if you don't get one?

What if you never see one?

And with a drop rate like that, I'm telling you that the odds are SO AGAINST YOU IT'S NOT EVEN AMUSING.

At max grind, SANGE&YASHA offer a mere 80 ATP over the Asuka. Their special might be lots better, but you might as well hold out for a Gush handgun. And (now, this is the most important part) they don't look NEARLY as cool.

A few days ago I was playing with some illegit players. One guy had a SANGE&YASHA, another had an ASUKA... and the ASUKA looked way freakin' cooler.

Of course, in my opinion a guy is better off hunting LOTS of cool rares instead of just breaking his brain trying to find one really really REALLY rare one that honestly ain't that cool. It's just a pair of katanas. Made of metal. Much like the TJ sword looks much lamer than the Sealed J-Sword, you're better off going with the Asuka. ^_^

[Primrose]

I say do not even try the Viridia one, the drop is simply insane, the average is 556 Viridia IS runs to get a Yasha, and that is the average ! and as we know the lower the drop rate, the more unlikely the chances of getting the average.



I know we already had a chat about this, but the average with Skyly is 2058 Fami runs. And it does not matter how low the drop rate is, the weapons average drop stays the same, its a mathematical thing.
However, it fools you, because the difference in numbers is bigger, but not proportional, because the scientific average is given, so thats your chance, aim at the average.

[Hrith]

it is not a mathematical thing, it is a statistical matter, the higher the number, the more it can vary, which means the less likely you are to get the average.
any statistician can tell you that, always go with the number that varies less.
of course if there are only 2 or 3 monsters per run... >_>

and 2058 MA2 is faster than 556 IS, besides you can easily solo MA2, while you need 2 people at least for IS.

[Dragon_Ash]

you could always try 2688 SoB runs if you are offline... that's 33226905 exp XP

and i also would stick with Kef's opion and not bother... but they do look teh cool http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Hrith]

Actually I like the look of Asuka better =/ but S&Y is uber powerful, and it's special saved Kefka's hide many times.

and 33 226 905 exp is about what Kefka needs to go from his Lv 190 to 200 -_-

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kef on 2004-05-07 07:14 ]</font>

[Dragon_Ash]

i also think hit wouldn't be hard to come by for the S&Y if you've got the time to pipe for a sange with uber hit%... and androids would very much benifit from gush over burning >_>

[Primrose]

On 2004-05-07 06:46, Kef wrote:
it is not a mathematical thing, it is a statistical matter, the higher the number, the more it can vary, which means the less likely you are to get the average.
any statistician can tell you that, always go with the number that varies less.
of course if there are only 2 or 3 monsters per run... >_>

and 2058 MA2 is faster than 556 IS, besides you can easily solo MA2, while you need 2 people at least for IS.



It doesnt vary more, or not like you said, it simply varies in smaller numbers.
If you want to find a certain item, you have to look at the time you need to reach 100%, that varies depending on enemy/quest.
If Skyly Temple Indi Belra drops Yasha at a rate of 1/28808, this means that by killing 28808 you got your chances to 100%.
28808:14 = 2058 Fami runs.
67217:121 = 556 Ice Spinner runs.
So all that matters now is which way takes less time, i would say Ice Spinner is the faster way.

[Hrith]

1) you're wrong, learn statistics.

2) you're wrong: MA2 takes 10 minutes if you're killing all Belras in Temple, 2058 x 10 = 20580 minutes or 343 hours to get a Belra drop Yasha. IS takes at least one hour, and I insist on "at least", having done that quest well over 250 times, 556 runs = 556 hours to get a Melqueek drop Yasha.

[Primrose]

1) you're wrong, learn statistics.

I have, and that sentence hasnt proven me wrong in any way.
Unless you can explain why im wrong.


2) you're wrong: MA2 takes 10 minutes if you're killing all Belras in Temple, 2058 x 10 = 20580 minutes or 343 hours to get a Belra drop Yasha. IS takes at least one hour, and I insist on "at least", having done that quest well over 250 times, 556 runs = 556 hours to get a Melqueek drop Yasha.

10 and 60 minutes is not the best estimate and so far all Ice Spinner games i have joined have been done by going through the full route, so a "only Belra" route as opposed to a "full Ice Spinner route" is indeed unfair.
While i must say the difference between those two really isnt that big to make a fuss about it (and i really dont intend to, i just wanted to share my opinion on this matter), you showed that youre not doing anything different: you calculate time to get your chances to 100%, and thats what matters to get yourself a guide line to what your planing on searching.

556 runs <-> 2058 runs

[PaleKid15]

On 2004-05-07 09:33, Primrose wrote:

1) you're wrong, learn statistics.

I have, and that sentence hasnt proven me wrong in any way.
Unless you can explain why im wrong.


2) you're wrong: MA2 takes 10 minutes if you're killing all Belras in Temple, 2058 x 10 = 20580 minutes or 343 hours to get a Belra drop Yasha. IS takes at least one hour, and I insist on "at least", having done that quest well over 250 times, 556 runs = 556 hours to get a Melqueek drop Yasha.

10 and 60 minutes is not the best estimate and so far all Ice Spinner games i have joined have been done by going through the full route, so a "only Belra" route as opposed to a "full Ice Spinner route" is indeed unfair. While i must say the difference between those two really isnt that big to make a fuss about it (and i really dont intend to, i just wanted to share my opinion on this matter), you showed that youre not doing anything different: you calculate time to get your chances to 100%, and thats what matters to get yourself a guide line to what your planing on searching.

556 runs <-> 2058 runs



Time is all that matters, and the belra drop is faster. End of story. Not to mention the fact that the belra drop is more likely to drop as a fluke. Less possibilities = higher chance of a certain outcome (the rare drop).

[shadowhex]

I'd go with the Melqueeks since you can fight more of them in a run. Even with statistics, you could fight 2 or 3 times as many enemies as the given number (i.e. fighting 300 enemies with a 1 in 100 chance) and still not find your rare. At least with the more enemies you get more chances to get the rare, even if the drop rate is lower.

[PaleKid15]

On 2004-05-07 10:27, shadowhex wrote:
I'd go with the Melqueeks since you can fight more of them in a run. Even with statistics, you could fight 2 or 3 times as many enemies as the given number (i.e. fighting 300 enemies with a 1 in 100 chance) and still not find your rare. At least with the more enemies you get more chances to get the rare, even if the drop rate is lower.



I would say that that is bad logic, but it's not at all logical. Belra's or bust (of course, the item isn't worth the effort from either enemy IMO).

[JGaff]

I'll probably put in some good hours later today. Seeing as I have to level both my guys anyways, it wouldn't hurt to spend a couple runs here and there. I'm not going to be crazy over it.

Another additional question, Is Flame Visit a good gun for a RAmar. It would be easier to get a hold of certainly, but is it worth all the effort? I'm always up for a challenge, so I'll go for both anyways...

[lain2k3]

Flame visit = teh suk.

and Kef, I think he said he's offline only, so He cant do either quest. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Hrith]

On 2004-05-07 12:39, lain2k3 wrote:
Flame visit = teh suk.
I disagree, it is good in some places, one of my Visits has 45% A.Beast and 20% hit, it sucks on Terra, but it does a great job on Thousand.


and Kef, I think he said he's offline only, so He cant do either quest.


On 2004-05-06 21:01, Kef wrote:
meh... you're offline, go with Asuka >_>

[JGaff]

Rather than start a new thread...

Is an Egg Blaster any good?
I Know a Frozen Shooter is, so I'll have to get one too.


Also,
C-Bringer's Rifle, Baranz Launcher,any good?

I hope you realize that I'm playing offline 2 to 3 players, not solo if i can help it. That boosts my chances a bit, but by how much?

I may sound like a bothersome noob, but Knowledge is power, and I try to pass on accumlated know-how.

One other thing I'm feeling is that alot of what I'm looking into so far has been dismissed as not worth it. Is it possible that i'd be overlooking a decent weapon due to the fact people have the rare, powerful weapons , and are telling me based on comparing to a better weapon (Ex: Don't get a Flame Visit because Frozen shooter and Heaven Punisher own it...)

I'll elaborate more if need be, just ask.

[Hrith]

Making a new thead wouldn't have been a problem.



On 2004-05-08 16:48, JGaff wrote:
Is an Egg Blaster any good?
No, low ATA, handgun range, misses a lot even with 50% hit, and less powerful than a Justy, not to mention a crappy special, it would be a bit better if it was equippable by non-rangers like on DC.


C-Bringer's Rifle
Definitely, excellent on Rangers due to the awesome special and rangers' naturally high ATA, good on forces, too, but they cannot use special effectively.


Baranz Launcher,any good?
No, Terra manages to miss with it while doing weak attack in Very Hard Cave offline >_> its Charge special does not make it any better.


That boosts my chances a bit, but by how much?
A bit, there are more monsters in offline multi, especially Forest, Cave and most of Ep2, but there aren't any quests, so only a bit.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kef on 2004-05-08 16:59 ]</font>

[JGaff]

Thanks for the insight. Never hurt ot have some play toys if I stumble across any of them though.

Here is a list of weapons my HUcast has

ChainSawd
Supressed Gun
(Working on a Demo Comet)

RAmar is using:

Laser ( Has some good % I've forgotten)
Red Scorpio
Final Impact


What can you recommend I add to their arsenals that Might be obtained on these sections ID's (Bluefull, Skyly, Virida, Pinkal)

This is a question for anyone

[Hrith]

Viridia:
Red Sword
Red Partisan
God/Power
Red Dagger
Ruby Bullet
Standstill Shield
Kamui
Asuka (easier in Pinkal)
Berdysh (easier in Pinkal)
All katanas, can be handy

Skyly:
Dragon Slayer (aim for good %)
God/Arm (very hard mode)
Dragon's Claw
Red Sword
Chain Sawd (aim for hit%)
Sange
Red Dagger
Red Slicer
Demolition Comet (see Bluefull)
Pan Arms' Arms
Luminous Field
Sinow Red's Arms
Lavis Cannon
Meteor Cudgel
Ancient Saber
Parts of Egg Blaster (easiest drop)
Seabed, simply pwns in Skyly

Bluefull:
Imperial Pick
Holy Ray
Heaven Punisher (good luck)
Demolition Comet
Kasami Bracer
Morning Glory

Pinkal:
Red Saber
Luminous Field
Agito 1975
Berdysh
Asuka
Partisan of Lightning


I only listed stuff for HUcast or RAmar, though.

[JGaff]

Thanks, I'm off to Hosouka to check some of these out. I do have some of these already, may of the Skyly and Viridia (and a ChainSawd with hit%)

I'm hunting some of that stuff. Some of it I've never really looked at. I'll check on it now...