Wheres the proof! Huh?

[Big-Enki]

Someone show me the proof that rare items dont drop when you have an hacked mag on. Just today I found Yas 3000r.

[RuneLateralus]

Of course it is a lie created to help people stop using hacked stuff. I had a hacked Dreamcast mag and I still found stuff with it when I played the game.

[Arislan]

On PSO Plus, using a 1304 Mag, Rare item drop rates become near nil. It's still possible, but chances are so low, it's not even funny. Try an average of 12 rare enemies to get a single 87.5% chance rare.

If you are not in a game *led* by a PSO Plus player, there is no difference in rare drop rates no matter what. And if you are, unequipping the mag (it can be in your inventory) is enough to re-enable drops.

[Kuea]

I remember when I believed that a level 1304 mag DELETED all your rares

[Zinger314]

The ONLY thing I might believe about that rumor is offline, because I missed a 87.5% drop 8 times.

Online, I have seen rares with the mag.

[Sitka]

Some real savvy veterans who have played an absolute ton of hours and know how to mod-chip and hack to no end still claim hacked mags do affect the drop rate HUGELY (at least on xbox). All I know is if I am running with mates that are 100% legit, we do see a lot of rares drop and if even one person has a hacked mag on, we rarely see drops. I have played an incredible number of hours and my personal observation indicates that rare drops are indeed rare when hacked mags are present. Can someone explain to me how it is 100% PROVEN they do not? (Hell, we're still seaching for those weapons of mass destruction that are 100% surely in Iraq).

[Bender202]

On 2004-05-23 12:09, Sitka wrote:
All I know is if I am running with mates that are 100% legit, we do see a lot of rares drop and if even one person has a hacked mag on, we rarely see drops.


Ditto! I find the same thing happens when i m around ppl wit hackd mags.

[Sitka]

So last night I'm playing with a couple of mates. A few red boxes are dropping here and there - nothing crazy rare, but decent stuff - and a kid comes in just over level 80 (ultimate game). With this monkey king bar, he's dealing 2,000+ damage with every hit. Hacker. We play for a while and nobody really says anything, but room after room after room and not even a crappy photon drop. Finally, some of my mates start making comments and the kid gets pissed off and leaves. I try not to criticize anyone as I don't enjoy being criticized by others, but you can't always control your mates. Almost as soon as the kid leaves the room, red boxes start dropping again. Coincidence? Maybe? But its been "proven" that hacked mags don't affect drop rates - right? Does anyone know the source of this "proof?" Something other than anecdotal would be nice and if it's true that hacked items don't affect drop rate on xbox, and there is a reliable source to show that, it would go along way towards getting people to be nice to each other on the xbox. Personally, I don't care if folks want to be legit or non-legit, use hacked weapons or only weapons they personally found or whatever, I just want to have fun playing this great team-oriented online game and I want enough other people playing to keep the servers going so I can continue to play as well. If anyone has a link to the source of the "proof" that hacked mags/items do not affect drop rate on the xbox, I would be very, very grateful.

[Vercingetorix]

I have bought a new xbox this year and I was unable to transfert my char to the new one. I was force to leave my Level 97 Humar behind and start over. I was very upset. So I took a Hacked Dreamcast mag to help me get back to a descent level while I feed and build another mag.

I have to say that at level 37, I've only seen 2 photo drop and 2 rare so far. I do think that theory apply for xbox. I'm going to get rid of the Dreamcast mag as soon as my other mag is good enough.

[Sitka]

Hey Verci,

Check out the other threads on this topic.

The statistics on xbox are beginning to pile up in favor of hacked mags/weapons affecting drop rates.

It's far from conclusive and that doesn't mean you can't get any red boxes, nor do we fully understand what variables might be involved (God I would love a phone call from a Microsoft or ST rep about now).

Personal observations are overwhelmingly supporting the affected drop rate theory on XBOX right now - not on gamecube.

[Vercingetorix]

On 2004-06-11 12:05, Sitka wrote:
Hey Verci,

Check out the other threads on this topic.

The statistics on xbox are beginning to pile up in favor of hacked mags/weapons affecting drop rates.

It's far from conclusive and that doesn't mean you can't get any red boxes, nor do we fully understand what variables might be involved (God I would love a phone call from a Microsoft or ST rep about now).

Personal observations are overwhelmingly supporting the affected drop rate theory on XBOX right now - not on gamecube.



If there is such a proof then I am all for it. I don't mind behing penalize for some illegal item that I have used.

[Liquid_Bacon]

I hate hacked Mags and most of the people who use them, but I choose not to fall for the idea that they affect rare drop rates. Here are some reasons why:

1) Rares are called rares for a reason! If rares were as easy to find as most people wished they were, almost nobody would cheat. After doing 10 or 20 runs without finding a rare, it becomes very easy for people to believe that, yeah, maybe their hacked mag is affecting the drops. What they don't realize is that with the easiest drop rates in Ultimate being around 1/300, it is statistically possible to do 20-30 runs without finding one rare. It is mathematically possible to do a million runs without finding one rare, given PSO's "chance of a drop" system. In short, I think it becomes very easy for people to agree with the hacked mag theory after a good number of runs without a rare because they don't realize how rare these items really are. Remember, the very attitude that leads most people to use these hacked Mags is one of impatience and selfishness - the same attitude that could cause one to believe that they weren't finding rares nearly as fast as they should.

2) I don't think PSO Episode I&II (at least our North American version) can recognize hacked items. But let's pretend for a minute that it could. If the game could recognize a hacked Mag in some idiot's inventory, why would Sonic Team go through all the programming trouble of messing with the game's drop rates and enemy chances? Why not just stop players from logging on with hacked Mags? Or not letting them take hacked Mags out of the bank? Almost anything would be more simple to implement than this hacked Mag/drop rate theory. In looking at Sonic Team's almost total lack of effort concerning taking care of cheating, I don't think Sonic Team would invest the time in such a complicated "fix", especially to suppress the use of only one item.

3) As far as fake rumors and people pulling stuff out of their ass goes, PSO is one of the worst games to date. You can see why, though. PSO is a somewhat complicated game, with drop rates, and rare items, and items you can't get yet, etc. Some of the legitimate explanations for various PSO phenemonon, while sounding fairly far-fetched, are true. This makes it easy for some to believe various bullshit rumors that people oh-so-love to come up with about PSO. Remember some of the previously hotly debated rumors? Section ID combinations affecting rare drop rates? Killing yourself after killing Olga Flow and coming back to find the DNA? These bullshit rumors are now accepted as just that - bullshit, as will this hacked Mag theory once it has also run its course.

[ZAFF]

The hacked mag will save itself on your memory card as a few lines these few lines will affect different areas. But why on earch would SEGA hide what i can describe as a small program in those lines and when it sees that somebody has hacked the mag it reduces rares?!?!?!?! No if they knew hackign mags wa spossible and could create consiquences because of hackign mags they would make the consiquence a corrupted character not Rare rate reduction!

Aswell if the EP1&2 is coded the same as Version 2 then even of a mags level was 999999999999 the game would only read it as being 200. thats why on version 2 when they introduced the checker on the bank to see if you were using hacked items if you were you were booted offline if you did it twice you got a warning and so on. I had a mag of silly level I used to use and i took it out and nothing it just dint care about my poor lil mag.

Theres 2 qrguments that prrove this rubbish about rares incorect the first a little stronger the 2nd is not 100% as I aint seen the coding YET....

[Arislan]

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=83304&forum=4&5

Read that, the post there by me and the one here will tell you what we know about Hacked mags. And note, this ONLY applys to 1304s. A 0/0/0/200 mag will not affect rates here.

[Arislan]

Ooops. Nothing to see here. No double post. Move along
::Waves hand::


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Arislan on 2004-06-11 15:15 ]</font>

[ZAFF]

Ill tell you 100% when i have the done the memory dump with one of those mags... Thats the only way that any proof will ever come Unless SEGA tell us

[Sitka]

Okay Zaff, Liquid Bacon - I hear what you're saying, but if they have already done this on at least one ST game, why could they not adjust drop rates using the identical criterion on xbox?

If you analyze my arguments and the information I've used on the various threads regarding cheating, I've been very careful to state that this is merely my observation and that the evidence to suggest there may an affect is mounting, but far from over. Having completed a significant number of laps in both situations is far more noteworthy than simply completing 20-30 laps. However, statistical anomolies do occur and it may be that I have incredibly shite luck, as I have duly noted.

My legit character has had pretty good luck finding many rares, while my purposedly unlegit character has a statistically significant amount of bad luck - as in 0 drops in over 90 levels. Perhaps when I get my Racaseal to level 200 (I only play her offline) and still have 0 drops, there will be enough information collected to SUGGEST that the drop rates MAY be affected.

At this point, my anectdotal is at odds with your anecdotal and that's okay. If you find clear evidence and/or can have a rep from MS/ST call me to explain how my bullshit theories have been pulled out of my ass, I would appreciate it.

[ZAFF]

After work today I really just could nto be botherd with revising for my exams. SO i turned on PSO and ran through forest on ULT with my unlegit player 20 times. When doing so I recorded how many rares i got. Then i did the same with my legit character here are my findings.

UNLEGIT
Run1: 6 Rares
Run2: 1 Rares
Run3: 3 Rares
Run4: 0 Rares
Run5: 2 Rares
Run6: 1 Rares
Run7: 1 Rares
Run8: 4 Rares
Run9: 1 Rares
Run10: 4 Rares
Run11: 1 Rares
Run12: 0 Rares
Run13: 2 Rares
Run14: 1 Rares
Run15: 0 Rares
Run16: 0 Rares
Run17: 2 Rares
Run18: 2 Rares
Run19: 3 Rares
Run20: 0 Rares

OVERALL 34 Rares

LEGIT
Run1: 1 Rares
Run2: 5 Rares
Run3: 3 Rares
Run4: 3 Rares
Run5: 2 Rares
Run6: 0 Rares
Run7: 2 Rares
Run8: 1 Rares
Run9: 4 Rares
Run10: 3 Rares
Run11: 2 Rares
Run12: 1 Rares
Run13: 0 Rares
Run14: 0 Rares
Run15: 3 Rares
Run16: 0 Rares
Run17: 2 Rares
Run18: 2 Rares
Run19: 2 Rares
Run20: 1 Rares

OVERALL 37 Rares



So in the overall difference it made no real difference now we could call that a sample liek they do in science. Now time that by 500

SO...

UNLEGIT 17000 rares In 10000 times through FOR on ULT
LEGIT 18500 rares In 10000 times through FOR on ULT

In the end it makes a 1500 drop rate difference... to be honest thats nothing Id like to do it more but if i see forsest again im going to cry!!

[Arislan]

Zaff, I am assuming you are using wither the XBox or PSO + versions for these tests, correct? And you are including only Red Box Special Weapon/PD/Addslot rares, correct?

[Sitka]

Zaff.

What system were you using and what game?

Is it possible the servers might have different criterion.

Check my post, 90 levels for the Racaeal without a rare drop. That's one helluva different result than what you got.

Could it be that Microsoft is fcking with me personally?

But seriously, the anectdotal evidence on the US servers for Xbox is outrageously one-sided. What might be accounting for this?

[darthsaber9x9]

On 2004-06-12 13:46, ZAFF wrote:
After work today I really just could nto be botherd with revising for my exams. SO i turned on PSO and ran through forest on ULT with my unlegit player 20 times. When doing so I recorded how many rares i got. Then i did the same with my legit character here are my findings.

UNLEGIT
Run1: 6 Rares
Run2: 1 Rares
Run3: 3 Rares
Run4: 0 Rares
Run5: 2 Rares
Run6: 1 Rares
Run7: 1 Rares
Run8: 4 Rares
Run9: 1 Rares
Run10: 4 Rares
Run11: 1 Rares
Run12: 0 Rares
Run13: 2 Rares
Run14: 1 Rares
Run15: 0 Rares
Run16: 0 Rares
Run17: 2 Rares
Run18: 2 Rares
Run19: 3 Rares
Run20: 0 Rares

OVERALL 34 Rares

LEGIT
Run1: 1 Rares
Run2: 5 Rares
Run3: 3 Rares
Run4: 3 Rares
Run5: 2 Rares
Run6: 0 Rares
Run7: 2 Rares
Run8: 1 Rares
Run9: 4 Rares
Run10: 3 Rares
Run11: 2 Rares
Run12: 1 Rares
Run13: 0 Rares
Run14: 0 Rares
Run15: 3 Rares
Run16: 0 Rares
Run17: 2 Rares
Run18: 2 Rares
Run19: 2 Rares
Run20: 1 Rares

OVERALL 37 Rares



So in the overall difference it made no real difference now we could call that a sample liek they do in science. Now time that by 500

SO...

UNLEGIT 17000 rares In 10000 times through FOR on ULT
LEGIT 18500 rares In 10000 times through FOR on ULT

In the end it makes a 1500 drop rate difference... to be honest thats nothing Id like to do it more but if i see forsest again im going to cry!!



when you say do you mean, as arislan said, that ur using psox or pso+? and if you must be using a 1304 mag or so ive heard often.

and to be honest, for pso, your maths doesnt really work.

[ZAFF]

I used my best m8ts Xbox that I currently have at my house as he is away on his holidays. (my maths excuse me for it but its very simple sampling process) yes I only counted red boxes. I wanted to level both my legit + my unlegit more than anything but I counted rares aswell. Yes I did use the MAG tho I had to nick it off my mates character lol... and to me there seemd no difference in drop rate (of bog standard red boxes)
Now i must sleep im at work in morning and I am no longer sober CIAO

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-06-12 16:06, ZAFF wrote:
I used my best m8ts Xbox that I currently have at my house as he is away on his holidays. (my maths excuse me for it but its very simple sampling process) yes I only counted red boxes. I wanted to level both my legit + my unlegit more than anything but I counted rares aswell. Yes I did use the MAG tho I had to nick it off my mates character lol... and to me there seemd no difference in drop rate (of bog standard red boxes)
Now i must sleep im at work in morning and I am no longer sober CIAO


Was this done all online? Only online counts for this research.