...is there really a dearth of support FOs?

[iamfanboy]

I'll admit it. I sincerely enjoy being the support FO, and I simply can't understand why anyone wouldn't want to be one. I mean, sure, I can nuke with the best of 'em, and I do so with great frequency offline, but when you're ONLINE you're part of a team.

Out of all the games that I've played with FOs so far (and I've seen melee FOs, nuking FOs, and just support FOs who did nothing but j/z/s/d/r/a) I have met TWO who didn't take it as rote that you cast j/z on enemies, s/d on your buddies, and resta whenever it's necessary. I find it to be no coincidence that both of them were using illegit Psycho Wands, even though one of them tried to be sneaky and only whipped it out when he thought no one was looking (BTW, if you see a FOnewm named Coffeemage, don't play with him, he sux.)

Of course, later that night I played with a FOmar who freely admitted he wasn't legit, and he was a kick-ass support FO who could also nuke with the best of 'em.

I really don't understand why everyone is complaining about there being no support FOs, and I don't understand the few people I've met who DON'T support their buddies. I mean, casting jellen and deband is just covering your own ass, and as long as you're there why not shifta and zalure?

Sure, when I'm FO'ing, my j/z might be a bit delayed because an enemy spawn catches me in the middle of a Gifoie or Grants, and I'm not used to the timing of the higher level s/d that he has (compared to my RAmarl's, that is), but I always wear my Resta Merge, always have Anti shortcutted, and never fail to keep Reverser near the top of my quick menu, and nearly all the FOs I play with do the same.

So, er, I guess what I'm really asking is... where are you guys playing that such lousy FOs hang at? I really don't get it. Maybe it's because I'm fairly new to online and in the past every group had an FO in it that puts the current ones to shame, a magical time when every Tallow dropped his rare and every Megid missed.

I just don't see what everyone is bitching about, is what I'm trying to say.

[Vielka]

i dont mind being a support FO at all. My only question is that dont u have to partake on hitting enemies to get experience.. So if a FO just sits back and only j/z/s/d/r all the time they wont get crap for exp..

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-06-01 15:10, Vielka wrote:
i dont mind being a support FO at all. My only question is that dont u have to partake on hitting enemies to get experience.. So if a FO just sits back and only j/z/s/d/r all the time they wont get crap for exp..


Jellen and Zalure count as a tag, and give 80% of the monster's max EXP (the same as if you dealt a non-killing blow).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-06-01 15:22 ]</font>

[PJ]

I think people who start off offline only, who paly melee Forces become the best Support Force, since they learn the importance of S/D/J/Z that way.

I'd like to think I'm a good Support FO, but sicne I'm not back onlnie yet, I can't be the judge of myself http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[TeenGohan]

My best friend is a support FO. He kicks ass in ultimate mines and ruins. In those areas J/Z/S/D are your best friends. anyway back to the topic. Alot of new people think that Fo's are just as strong in meele as HU's. Not in power. but in tech power. SupportFo kick ass and people should give them a try.

[Vielka]

On 2004-06-01 15:22, Ketchup345 wrote:


On 2004-06-01 15:10, Vielka wrote:
i dont mind being a support FO at all. My only question is that dont u have to partake on hitting enemies to get experience.. So if a FO just sits back and only j/z/s/d/r all the time they wont get crap for exp..


Jellen and Zalure count as a tag, and give 80% of the monster's max EXP (the same as if you dealt a non-killing blow).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-06-01 15:22 ]</font>


cool, thanks again ketchup

[darthsaber9x9]

most people dont find glory in playing as a support force. thats why there arent many. i love it http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif.









but im offline http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[excecutor]

Since when is there a difference between support FOrce and Melee and teching FOrces? All of the forces I play with are able to support and another talent, most of them melee. Melee is fine by me, but we as forces must always remember that supporting is our primary purpose. Anything else is secondary.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-06-01 16:03, excecutor wrote:
Since when is there a difference between support FOrce and Melee and teching FOrces? All of the forces I play with are able to support and another talent, most of them melee. Melee is fine by me, but we as forces must always remember that supporting is our primary purpose. Anything else is secondary.



Very good, my child. :3

And if you're meleeing and you hit PB, and you've got J/Z on your secondary palette, if you're for some reason not the last to hit your PB, put them on the primary action palette. :3 That, or cast them from the quick menu, but be fast about it. :3

Oh, and if a spawn occurs and S/D runs out at the same time, J/Z is usually the priority there, especially in later areas, as far as I'm concerned. J/Z first, then S/D - That wimpy little L108 RAmarl you're playing with isn't going to benefit all that much from the Deband, but if it hits her, she's going to appreciate having that Delbiter's 3000+ ATP cut nearly in half. XP

Actually, she won't, nobody J/Zs, and nobody understands the importance of a good support Force. -_-;

I do, of course, since it's the style of play in PSO that I like best - Support Force, with a side of melee.

Agreed on the melee FO making a good support Force - They're the most likely to J/Z properly. And by properly, I mean both casted, as soon as the monsters spawn. Not one or the other, cast after everything is half dead and you're finished spamming Rafoie on Tollaws.

I've played with so many FOs who don't shortcut J/Z, who keep it buried in their menu, who only cast Jellen, who only cast Zalure, who claim they're doing both and are lying... -_-;

Meh, I have impossibly high standards. XP

Thing is, I don't expect anything more than what I do myself with my FOmar. XP

[Mixfortune]

Ian, what you have just posted is actually what I try and go by as well... odd. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
Maybe it's more odd that I'm a HUmar amongst Androids when it comes to offline multiplayer, so I'm the support character.

Of course I can't do Shifta and Deband, but even if I could I would still do J/Z first. My tech shortcut list already has ryuker on the bottom, zalure on the top and jellen second, and my customized buttons are:

Primary: Heavy, Weak, Dimate
Secondary: Resta, Jellen, Difluid

To me, especially in the later areas, Jellen is my priority over Zalure. It doesn't help to Zalure something only to waste time and get you and your teammates knocked to the ground. I'm at the point where if I Jellen, I can still stand after taking a hit and then Zalure. Makes it less of a chance that my youngest brother will get one-hit KOed as well.

As for Zalure, well, as far as offline multiplayer goes, the characters that we use in the above mentioned team (our highest characters, HUmar, RAcast, HUcaseal) are getting up high enough in levels where Zalure is not really a necessity for every monster. We have good communication and teamwork after playing hundreds of hours together, and Zalure is for the most part not needed from me against the majority of the monsters (that IS considering that I only have lv15 Zalure with a HUmar, otherwise I would do it a lot more). Mostly I use my Zalure against Delsabers/Indi Belras/Chaos Bringers and CCA/Seabed creatures. Anything else and Zalure is not necessarily needed by us.

But, before my FOmar was corrupted (along with 4 of my other major characters, all on seperate cards) I would Jellen/Zalure/Shifta/Deband, then proceed to Gifoie the shit out of everything in the room. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Being a support FOrce can actually get you EXP faster than trying to kill everything, depending on the situation. L30 Shifta/Deband in combination with L30 Jellen/Zalure can make area runs much faster, and you can still tag with J/Z for as much experience as if you hit them and didn't get the kill. If you try and attack with techs instead of supporting, you may get some 100% EXP kills, but overall your team may be getting kills slower and slower runs, and you'd still get a lot of cut EXP from not killing, since the teammates are eventually killing as well.

In Ultimate, J/Z is where it's at. Even L15 Jellen can cut a nice chunk. Shifta and Deband is more of a priority in earlier difficulties, or areas in Ultimate where the team is high enough level to lay waste anyways, since trying to cast J/Z on anything that will only last 5-10 seconds without it isn't necessarily as much of a priority http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2004-06-02 01:09 ]</font>

[iamfanboy]

Where are you playing that has such crappy FOs, Ian?

Come hang with me; I'll FO for ya any day.

Especially since I'm on a Lavis hunt to make Lavis Blades for my HUcaseal... lots and lots of half-TTF. Dammit, I hate that quest, but it's SO FREAKIN HANDY...

[Rainbowlemon]

I adore playing as a support FO, but my only problem with them is the fact that they have such little HP, and are usually the first to fall in a boss battle. This is my I have HUnewearl as preference - they have fairly decent support techs, but with the added benefit of fairly high HP and ATP/ATA compared to a FO.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Antimony on 2004-06-02 03:01 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

Uh, just about everywhere. >_>; Where are you playing that has such supposedly competent FOs? XP

And Jellen is a priority over Zalure, but Zalure should not be forgotten in later areas... Even as a HUmar, you can see the difference with some things - Hit a Recobox without Zalure. Zalure it, and notice how much your damage improved. Some things have repulsive DFP. Even in Forest, Zalure helps. Actually, in Forest with most characters, I'll drop Jellen. Things don't do enough damage to make Jellen worthwhile, but the HUs/RAs/me do enough more damage to monsters with Zalure to make it worthwhile.

Don't forget that some enemies are nasty even Jellened, and Zalure makes 'em go away faster. ^_- Tower is notoriously bad for having things with retaded DFP - Watch people do 50 damage to a Del Lily, and then do 200+ with L30 Zalure. XP

Hah, FOs have bad HP? Zero has 1291 HP! ...With 125 HP mats. ...And three God/HPs.

Not that he dies much anymore unless it's Megid, cheap-ass OHKOs(Mericarol anyone?) or the ever-popular multiple hits from things that don't knock you down(Recon, the lovely way Dark Falz's second form likes to randombly be a pain in the ass and do nothing but Rabarta/Darvants, and half the team always ends up dying multiple times no matter how much EIC they have. XP)

[Dhylec]

On 2004-06-01 17:36, Ian-KunX wrote:
Actually, she won't, nobody J/Zs, and nobody understands the importance of a good support Force. -_-;

I do, of course, since it's the style of play in PSO that I like best - Support Force, with a side of melee.


Meh, I have impossibly high standards. XP

Thing is, I don't expect anything more than what I do myself with my FOmar. XP


yah indeed hight standards!
but i call for situations & reasons.. not the stardardized fo-do-this routines

[RFB]

On 2004-06-02 04:27, Ian-KunX wrote:
Zero has 1291 HP! ...With 125 HP mats. ...And three God/HPs.


erm, wasnt that exactly the needed HP to survive Falz 3rd form's slash attack in V2 ultimate mode??

and back on topic, the problem with FOs is that many people dont how the hell to use them. The other day I entered a temple game with my RAcast, and there was this lvl 12-13 FOmar. All he kept doing was Rabarta... no matter what enemy or enemies, just rabarta. My inner mind was like:

"Are you stupid?!?!?! you're gonna run out of TP so quickly that in the end, even I will have more! And if you really want to drop your TP at light speed, at least use GI techs, you're a FOmar, christ! And for gods sake, different enemies different elemental weaknesses!!"

There should be a school were those who wished to have a FO could learn what to do and what NOT to do.

[SLON]

I play my Fomar a lot, but dont expect me to keep putting J/Z on every single enemy! Sure, if we are fighting multiple enemies in the Towers/Seabed I will do it, after all I want everyone to stay alive (to protect me lol). In a run through Forest,Caves or Temple, however, you should be a good enough player to survive using your own wits. J/Z a bunch of Bartles ? - hey, I've only got so many Trifluids!
I keep reading on these pages how easy it is to solo TTF, East/West Towers, so why when there are 4 players is J/Z so crucial all of a sudden?

[oeagrus]

Just as a side note...
I like to consider myself a superb melee/support FOmarl, and up to about 4-5 months ago I would've always J/Z'd each set of enemies, and always kept S/D on the group BUT...

seems like hardly anyone is legit anymore. And I simply refuse to S/D these level 82 hunters doing 1600+ damage per hit with their BKB. And since I've grown to such a high level (she's 185 now!), I really don't need J/Z on things anymore except in the Ruins and Seabeds.

And this is why I find myself playing less and less. The rampant cheating, hacked mags, and the *new* hack which is allowing people to carry 99 of any item (Trifluids, telepipes, Stars, etc.). Plus, but the time I can even cast Jellen ONCE, an entire group of things are dead from some Jsword swinging HU.

So now when I go online, before I S/D/J/Z, I watch how much damage people are doing and if they're obviously hacking it up, I run off to a corner and cast S/D on myself and just unplug my mic so I don't have to listen to those children go on and on about how awesome their hacked HUmar/cast is and how dumb I am for playing a force (the current crop of players have no idea what it means to share experience.)

AND it's not like I'm some uber legit, I've used a Red Ring and a Charge Vulcan w/ 95% hit for quite some time; I like being able to protect my FOmarl in emergencies. But I made my mag, found my armor, found my addslots, found my God/whatevers, and found my 35% hit Inferno Bazooka.

Ahh, hell, I dunno what I'm trying to say except that it's the legit players that suffer when a hack joins the games, since I immediately stop nearly all support. I go into "spam Razonde" mode so I can ensure I get my 80% experience.

[iamfanboy]

Hehe.

I hang in Deneb 9. Come by sometime, it's a fairly good community! I'm Steyr AUG (ramarl) or Jedifabreeze (FOmar) usually, though I'm trying to get my HUcaseal up to Ult range because it's fun to be the android hunter for a change sometimes.


Whenever a dupe-using fucktard (henceforth referred to as a DUFT) joins any game that I'm in, I stop everything and get the most enjoyment out of heckling the DUFT until he or she leaves.

It isn't that hard, usually. The dual techniques of insult (to an SJS-using HUcast: "Wow, what a shiny sword. Compensating for an inability to find your own good rares?" "Aww, who brought him back to life, dammit!") and talking as though he weren't there ("Wow, he knows about scape dolls. Maybe he knows a little bit about playing after all." "I wonder if he'll get the hint that he's not welcome and leave?" "Should we let him take barba ray on by himself? Naaahhh...") work wonders in my opinion, and it's more fun to insult DUFTs than it is to play with them.

Poor bastards never know what hit 'em if they come to a game I'M in.... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Nai_Calus]

I avoid Deneb 9 like the plague. I've poked my head in a few times, but for the most part, I don't play there - It's the ship/block I associate with 'asshole legits'. As opposed to the ones who aren't assholes. Even if all the assholes have left, I still can't shake that association from my mind, and merely being there pisses me off.

RFB: Uh, no. Falz' swipe takes 900 HP online Ult. 901 is the minimum to survive it. Zero laughs at Falz' swipe. >_>;

There are different situations as a support Force? Oh, right, Vol Opt and the like who can't be J/Zed. >_> The role of a support Force really doesn't change. It IS always S/D/J/Z/R/A. Anything less than total devotion to support, FIRST, and IMO you're a bad support Force. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Go ahead, melee, spam techs at bosses, but do it after you've gotten everything taken care of on the support front.

[RFB]

On 2004-06-02 04:46, RFB wrote:


On 2004-06-02 04:27, Ian-KunX wrote:
Zero has 1291 HP! ...With 125 HP mats. ...And three God/HPs.


erm, wasnt that exactly the needed HP to survive Falz 3rd form's slash attack in V2 ultimate mode??



*Points to where it says V2... then pokes Ian-KunX's eye*
I dont know if you played PSO V2, but the set damage for the slash attack back then, was 1290, which made the minimun lvl for a FO to stand alone against uncle Falz pretty high. Around 170-180 if I remember well...

And by your post, I can say I'm not a good support force XD I prefer to attack enemies at least once with a Gi tech. Not that I want to be a good support FO, either. I just want to be able to kick ass with Gi techs, and to hell with the others!! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Nai_Calus]

We aren't discussing Ver2. XP Especially not since I'm talking about my FOmar's HP. XP And no, I didn't play Ver2. Which makes me a PSO moron by some people's standards, but they can eat me.

And yeesh. XP I need to run into you on GC before my HL runs out and give you a good schooling. XP

[RFB]

You wont be able since I cant connect with my GC(kicks ADSL Modem), and yeah we are not discussing V2, but the HP of your FOmar just called my attention.

If by some people's standard you're a moron because you didnt play V2, then that standard is pretty fucked up.

[Mixfortune]

On 2004-06-02 09:02, RFB wrote:
You wont be able since I cant connect with my GC(kicks ADSL Modem), and yeah we are not discussing V2, but the HP of your FOmar just called my attention.

If by some people's standard you're a moron because you didnt play V2, then that standard is pretty fucked up.



FOmar didn't exist in V2, so it's irrelevant. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
And yes, Ian, I Zalure recoboxes as a HUmar, given that it's under the seabed category I mentioned earlier. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I just gave a general idea of what I Zalure because of what the team requires due to their structure and stats. My HUmar is all offline, that's what I meant. If I was online, or teamed with others outside of my brothers, I would J/Z more often. As is, we've basically figured out what I have to J/Z and what I don't.

And true, you got me as far as me dropping Zalure in the earlier difficulties, but given the team, Zaluring a bunch of bartles about to be hit by multiple swords ends up killing them a lot faster than Jellening them when they do far less than 100 a hit anyways.

Like I said, this is tailored to our offline multiplayer team. Online, I would do both (provided that online I happened to be the support character as a HUmar :| )

[Nai_Calus]

Ahh, online support HUmar. I've done that before. >_> Two droids, a RAmar and my HUmar. RAmar did S/D, I did everything else. Hell, I unequipped my HUmar's weapon so he could cast faster. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[iamfanboy]

Well, I am definitely an asshole to DUFTs, but I tend to give people SOME bit of slack.

I mean, you can BELIEVE a 180+ HUcast having a legit Double Cannon, or a ranger over 100 using a Spread Needle, or even one 178 RAcast I know who actually has *gasp* a legit Guld Milla! (I saw the Milla drop myself, and he got a Guld from someone whom 8 different people vouched for.)

Hell, I'm not 100% legit myself. Everything I ever get is backed up on a USB memory card, and I thank my foresight for buying one, because otherwise last night I would have lost a Cadaceus with 15% Hit, a Sorcerer's Cane, a Summit Moon, a Red Merge, and a Resta Merge. I FSODed TWICE IN HALF AN HOUR. The servers were laying down the hate for me.

[Hooga]

I don't play online, neither does anyone I know personally - but with friends on offline multiplayer, I take a role of support force sometimes. They expect me to nuke however, otherwise they accuse me of doing no damage. But they really appreciate resta if nothing else.

I have a question for iamfanboy, do you consider twinkling (sp?) illegit? Just wondering, because some legitly found items can be moved onto characters you wouldn't expect them to be on at such a low lvl. I can understand not believing ppl who hack characters/mags to allow their characters to use certain items, but how about ppl whose characters/mags are legit and have moved their legit items around?

wow... that was a large paragraph to convey a simple idea, srry bout that

lemme try that again, would you believe people to be legit if they said they merely twinkled their legitly found items, but you weren't sure if they twinkled or cheated to get those items

or do you consider twinkling illegit

just trying to get a feel for your opinions

[iamfanboy]

Considering that I'm running my new HUcaseal through the game with a Cross Scar (50% Hit), a Chainsawd (20% Hit), a Gush Raygun (45% Hit), and a Sato out of a large lot that I farmed a while back, I do consider twinking quite legit. I mean, hell, my RAmarl is completely maxed out on Mats. What is she supposed to do with the ones she finds? Drop them on the ground then quit the game?

No, twinking is just fine. It's perfectly fair in the context of the game (I mean, there ain't no way that a Purplenum FOnewm can use a Yas9k, why not give it to a Ranger you make?) and anyway, you still have to level up for a while to use some of the best rares, even WITH twinking.

Unless you count the rappy unit stat trick, but that just gets right into cheating, so it doesn't come into the context here.

Someone who considers twinking to be illegit is someone who is WAAAAYYYY more hardcore than I ever want to be. For the record, I play that HUcaseal with one guy online who won't twink his character, but he doesn't object to what I've done with mine. Go figure, huh?

[excecutor]

Heh, I sound a lot like that guy you talk about. I used to twink, but no longer. My characters must wait until they get to offline ultimate mode on their own before I give them things my other characters have found. Go figure huh? 13 characters, and they can't even help eachother out until they get to ultimate mode lol.

I am hardcore?

[Hooga]

@executor: Do you stand other people twinking, or do you think it is illegit? I know that if I had as many characters as you in ult I would try to do a few without.

@iamfanboy: The reason I asked, BTW, was I was thinking about by brother's humar he remade, and at around lvl 12 he was using g-assasin's sabers, and killing enemies in 1 combo or far less than in normal. Now that I look them up, I realise g-assasin's sabers have a far lower ATP reqirement than I thought... but nehow. Oh and I completely agree to your attitude towards DUFTs. I don't see how I could stand someone who dupes lots and especially hacks, especialy if they want a support FO...

Back to topic, I get the impression that everybody but iamfanboy thinks there aren't very many support FOs online, and some people think that support FOs are somewhat useless these days because of cheating that makes them "unnecessary". Are these conclusions correct?

[Rainbowlemon]

Back to topic, I get the impression that everybody but iamfanboy thinks there aren't very many support FOs online, and some people think that support FOs are somewhat useless these days because of cheating that makes them "unnecessary". Are these conclusions correct?


*creates FOmarl and levels due to lack of FOs*