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View Full Version : HUcasts suck :( Thoughts?



Victrix
Feb 20, 2001, 10:15 PM
I finished the game on Normal with a 26th level RAcast, and after playing with some friends a bit online, got the hunger to play a Hunter, so I started a HUcast.

I finished the game at 20th level in about 10 hours, and I was doing way more damage the whole way. Cool, right? Well, except that I spent some time talking to a friend today who has a 31st level newman hunter, and I'm now 30th level, and we got to comparing base stats.

After talking for a bit, it became rather clear that something was whack. We stripped all our equipment to compare raw values and... wtf is the point of a HUcast? He had slightly lower attack, higher defense, MUCH higher evade, plus the ability to use techniques.

Uh, I thought androids were supposed to be powerful to make up for the lack of techniques. Unless there's some hidden bonus to being an android (minus trap vision, poison immunity, blah blah), like faster attacks, more criticals or something, there seems to be no reason whatsoever to bother with one.

Thoughts?

Utherpendrgn
Feb 20, 2001, 10:28 PM
HUCasts rule!!! Other than looking completely bad-ass, they do have much better stats. There's always the possiblity of MAG changes, as well as the Hit Point factor. Andriods have the highest hit points in the game, especially the HUCast. And the automatic trap vision and immunity to poison is a much better than you may realize. Hell, I didn't even realize those floating red thingies were traps until about halfway through the Caves. Plus, when online I can serve as the trap monitor and take all of them out beforehand, and become popular with my team.. In closing, I think my signature sums everything up the best

Danderdag
Feb 20, 2001, 10:33 PM
My thought is: you are SO wrong.

50volts
Feb 20, 2001, 10:41 PM
I don't know what you're talking about complex. When I play online all I see is me walking around smashing everything while 2 HuMars are plinking away at a rappy (ok I exagerate, but you get the idea) at level 44 I am destroying the ruins on hard, maybe you should save your judgement a little. (or check my earlier post about how much HuCasts rule)

Flame on forum, Flame on!

Zwackery
Feb 21, 2001, 03:40 AM
Hey Victrix. Maybe your newman friend used a lot of def materials or other stat boosting items. I wonder what your stats would look like if neither of you used any stat boost items.

Victrix
Feb 21, 2001, 04:20 AM
Ok, you people are all driving me nuts. No, he did not use lots of stat boosting items. No, I'm not a non HUcast out to bash the class. No, the HUcast does *NOT* have superior stats.

The newman Hunter has *slightly* less hp, *slightly* less attack, superior defense, and vastly superior evade, *plus* the ability to use techniques. Because his defense and evade are higher, and much higher, the lowered hp doesn't mean much. The difference in attack was like 30 or 40 points, not a whole hell of a lot. And remember, we looked at raw stats with all equipment completely removed.

I'll dig up the exact stats sometime tommorow and post them, we should both be 31 or 32.

I wasn't looking for a host of kneejerk responses acting horribly injured because I'm pointing out that the HUcast is very weak in comparison, I'm looking for a reason to continue playing my 'droid http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif Yes, style counts for a lot, but when his character is superior in almost every way to mine, and I have yet to sample techniques (only played 'droid ranger and hunter up to this point), I wonder why I'm bothering with a 'droid Hunter.

ALL_YOUR_BASE
Feb 21, 2001, 04:30 AM
well, maybe you just can't play a HUcast the right way. Giant sux0ring can go a long way to making ur character sux0r.

Lenneth
Feb 21, 2001, 04:36 AM
Well... here's the deal:

HUnuwearl has the best natural defense and evade in the game. In fact, it might not even be worth much for a HUnewearl to up their mag's DEF at all due to the fact that they reach 450 evade quicker than any other class in the game.

You, as a HUcast, will ALWAYS have more hps and ATP. No one else will better you in this department, ever. You are the brick. You are infintely hard to kill, and make your enemies suffer every moment that you live. You are expressly designed to maul everything in your way.

Since you have a higher natural whoop-ass level than anything else, you can use some of the more interesting weapons out there. Yes, I know that most everyone preers a sword... but a HUcast wielding a Partisan does as much damage as most other hunters using swords. In addition, a HUcast will do this damage faster (quicker attack speed) and more reliably (higher ATA on a partisan).

Along these lines, HUcasts also turn often sneered at weapons into death dealing machines. A higher level HUcast with a good mechgun is something to be feared. Slicers aren't too bad in their hands, either... and a pair of daggers wielded well by a HUcast is effective, as well as EXTREMELY awesome to look at.

The final thing about androids that most people forget... your mags will always be more powerful as a Cast/Caseal, because you will never need to worry about your mag's mind level. Ever. Even a silly lil' RAmar that puts 5 mind levels into his mag is automatically doing less damage than any other android... and 5 points of damage adds up pretty quickly, especially when dealing with shots/mechguns/slicers and the like. Ultimately, the only way a lack of MST will ever effect you is concerning flame/shock weapons... and how often does anyone use those anyways?

Finally... ask how many of those HUmars and RAmars actually use those techniques of theirs... BEYOND those that can be duplicated with items (resta, reverser, etc.).

Just my .02... I hope this helps ease your inferiority worries. =)

Lenneth
Feb 21, 2001, 04:42 AM
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention.

Any class can max evade out to 450. Even a stupid lil' FOnewm. Which, ultimately, does not make the HUnewearl's higher beginning evade much to envy in the long run.

Pax. =)

Victrix
Feb 21, 2001, 04:51 AM
Well, I decided earlier to go ahead and stick with it anyway, but I am curious about a few things.

What are the max stats for the Hunters? I saw them posted earlier by someone for Forces, and the differences were very minimal, but I'd like to see them for the others.

How does MST affect the element attacks on weapons? So far, I have yet to find myself using any special attack for any weapon. The confuse weapons don't confuse, the elemental weapons do wussy damage, and so on.

Data! Data! I crave data! I even grabbed the strategy guide today, just for a source of more information (though I knew it wouldn't be complete), and with that and the mag guide posted online, I should be able to raise the mag of my dreams http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif

Hrm. Any really high level Hunters care to share their opinions?

Danderdag
Feb 21, 2001, 05:00 AM
All I know is that my mag has 178 levels of whoop ass, and 22 levels of other.

Android12
Feb 21, 2001, 05:44 AM
Well I'm not a really hight level, I'm only at 30. but my stats arent to shabby. Every time I go online I get bashed for using a HUcast, but I love this char. So what if I have no techs with the ability to equip almost every weapon I think HUcasts are pretty cool. People have there own opinions on different characters and there is no reason to get upset if someone doesnt like the same char that you are using. As soon as I get a few new VMU I will be starting a with some other chars and I'm sure I'll like them just the same ^_^

Lenneth
Feb 21, 2001, 04:02 PM
For max stats:
http://www.jeha.org/pso/char/stmax.html
Toss that into babelfish, if you need the japanese deciphered.

From what I understand, only the shock/flame weapons are affaected by MST. I could be wrong on that,though.

The only special attack s that I've found useful are HP steal (which seems to damage undamageable enemies, great fun with any multi-hit weapon), insta-kill, and 1/2 enemy hps. Steal TP would probably be pretty cool for non-androids.

Pax. =)

Samuel-Vimes
Feb 21, 2001, 04:44 PM
Thank you Lenneth.

I have a lvl. 75 Hucast and truly enjoy playing my character. I don't have to worry about posion, paralysis, carry antidote/anti-p (except when its for my mags), or waste a slot on trap vision. Nor do I have to spread the stats on my mags, which are built for power and defense. Having the ability to do massive damage, very good defense, and high hp allows me to walk up to a group of enemies (or even surrounded sometimes) and walk away w/o needing my teammates to revive me (and leaving pools of ichor on the ground). I enjoy playing a Hucast so much, that my second character is a lvl. 11 Racaseal.

I'll have to check on this, but I think that my Hucasts' power maxes out at about 710 (w/o mags).

Brimstone
Feb 21, 2001, 04:51 PM
I think the HUcasts are a great chararacter to use their HP and atp are the highest of all and I was playing against Dark Falz on hard with 2 othere level 50 people and a level 80 person and me and the 80 were the only ones who survived grants they have great stats and are fun to use with long swords

SeomanCC
Feb 21, 2001, 04:56 PM
ATP maxxes at 999. At level 64 my HUmar using a mag that has 100ish in the power stat, has 999 attack using nearly every weapon. It's roughly 910 with a Berdys and a shifta spell maxxes that immediately to 999. In the high levels a HUCast is completely obsolete excepting the slightly higher hp pool. VERY slightly. Personally I think this sucks, HUCasts should have a significantly higher stat base to balance out their lack of resta alone. A single shifta spell will put any HUmar or HUearl far over a HUcast's attack rating with any weapon unless maxxed at 999.

At level 64, 400ish TP is an almost neverending pool of heals, Dimates/Trimates only need be used if you can't afford the brief casting delay.

In conclusion, I think HUcasts look great, but don't have nearly enough bonuses to balance the huge disadvantage of no TP.

Seo

Seo

Victrix
Feb 22, 2001, 06:19 AM
afaik, points past 999 DO matter for damage. *shrug* not sure if thats true or not.

Faye
Feb 22, 2001, 07:05 AM
All I have to say about droids is this: Our group was on the last boss, on hard mode. Everyone was around L25 and I was around L35. All of us died except for a droid. That droid ran out of moon atomizers, which basically meant that it was Game Over. We lost that battle, because he had nothing to revive us with. Droids are so limited in my opinion.

Hmm...10 moon atomizers or a practically unlimited reverser techniques...

-Faye

Level 83 Huwearl

Victrix
Feb 22, 2001, 07:10 AM
Actually Faye, that's a compliment to the droids http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif You're saying you were 10 levels above everyone else, and he was *still* the only one left standing, and ran out of moon atomizers cuz your punk asses kept dying http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

Seutekh
Feb 22, 2001, 07:20 AM
*cough*

Uhm... Faye... I'm not trying to flame you or anything, but let's just take a closer look at that anecdote...

A level 25 HUcast outlived you as a level 35, and in fact, your entire party who was on pretty much equal level with him... and he was the one holding you all back?

*ahem*

So... uh... like... because he couldn't pull your bacon out of the fire fast enough or enough times, he was the limited one?

Okay. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif

I'll be more than happy to admit that my Droid is missing out on something by not having techniques, but when it came right down to it, unless my party members were 10-20 levels higher than I was, I was never the weak link.

I take out groups of enemies in a short combo of normal hits while my teammates struggle to chip away at a single loner. (I'm not talking me taking on a flock of rappys while they try to squish a Hildebear either) I don't raise my group that much, because that's not my job. I whoop ass, I take names and the occasional bullet. I'm good at it.

I took hits that would have killed a Force and crippled anyone else... When I died, it was because I took one too many shots for someone else who couldn't handle it or was too buzy zapping something else with a spell to get out of the way of something as nasty as a fireball or the big, scythed arms of a warped creature lurking about an alien spaceship.

I carry a full stack of Moon Ats just in case, but if I'm partying with some other 'droids, I leave 'em at home. We never need 'em.

Faye
Feb 22, 2001, 07:38 AM
Hmm...too quick too flame. This was our first time playing the boss on hard mode. After the intial slaughter with the spikes, since we didn't expect them to do much damage. We made our way through the next two forms, but the fourth form surprised us, because we had no clue at the beginning that you killed the character who was highlighted by that beam. Well, it just so happens I died that way and the other two died by those photon torpedos or whatever they are. The droid was on the other side unaffected. Hmm... I don't know about you, but I don't think that has anything to do with what level we were. So, because the droid had no moon atomizers left to revive us, he ended up dying by that blast that hits everyone and that I was the only one able to survive it, but I was dead. What can I do as a corpse? Nothing so our team lost that battle. BTW everytime we fight the last boss with a droid we drop moon atomizers at the beginning, because we feel bad for the droid who can only revive 10 times.

-Faye

Luckily we haven't had to use those moon atomizers, since our group hasn't died on the last boss, like we did that first time.

Seutekh
Feb 22, 2001, 07:51 AM
*snicker* ahh fond memories...

My first time to fight Dark Falz on hard...

I was teamed up with a couple of HUmars that were 5 and 15 levels higher than me. Some pretty nice guys really.

You know the beam you were talking about? The one that makes "you kill the character highlighted?" I survived. Four times. After they hit him. Don't ask "How," Just ask "How bad ass?"

Now, I'll happily say for the both of them that I didn't have to reveive them anymore than they had to revive me... and personally, there's little I like more than running thru a game with some fleshy things at my side, thet're just fun. And yes, the techniques are groovy. Like I said, it's a flaw, but I don't really miss them when I'm cleaning out rooms at a time without using Razonde L.12.

Ever just take off your weapon and "go Kung-Fu?" Were you still whipping more ass than people 5 levels above you? *grins* I was.

Like I said, not intended to be a flame, cuz that'd mean I didn't like ya. Hell, i don't even know ya. Just stickin' up for my boys (and girls) who take their whoopass with a side of WD-40 instead of Jack & Coke. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif

Faye
Feb 22, 2001, 08:11 AM
Its really not how bad azz you were. There are a lot of factors that could have made you survive that beam.

One, the guys you were with, played the boss before and knew that shooting the boss would kill you and stopped just in time before it killed you.

Two, your mag healed you. I had that happen to me. I got hit by that beam atleast twenty times, because someone didn't listen to me, not to shoot Dark Falz while that beam was on someone. Well, I was healing myself constantly with items and spells and I swear that my character could not heal that quickly. The little bugger was saving my life (hes a smart azz, IQ 200, but synch 0%, the little bastard only helps out whenever he feels like it, Thank God it was that time).

Three, you only got hit once by that beam. It takes more than one shot to kill you with that beam, even at L20.

Four, your just so bad azz for me that an L20 of you would rock an L100 of my HUwearl http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_biggrin.gif.

-Faye

BTW Yes I have gone Kung-Fu with people higher than me and the only people that you'll most likely do more damage than are Forces. They are just weak to begin with, but if you give me any Flesh Hunter or a Ramar thats five or more levels higher, with a weapon (Not DBs) he will definitely any day of the week do more damage than you. I'd like to also add maybe its the way you raised your mag, that you are doing more damage.

Seutekh
Feb 22, 2001, 08:29 AM
Actually... the little bugger won't heal me for <expletive> IQ 200 and sync 120, but the best I get is shifta/deband. I guess I'll have to make him switch forms again. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif

I also survived his little "death ray" that knocks most characters flat on their collective asses. Even the guys I was with couldn't stand up to that one. Knocked me pretty hard, but 2/3rds of my life isn't enough to take me out, it just makes me cranky.

Actually without my weapon I do about 85-95 points a pop on hard mode in the ruins. (120-130 on a critical) Sure my mag has 88 levels of Power, but I love the little tyke.

As for the L.20 Vs. L.100, I'm holding out at L. 60-something now, but if you'd like to go rock Dark Falz's socks with me sometime, I'm all for it.

ragnarok
Feb 22, 2001, 08:34 AM
We got to play sometime seutkeh, im moving up the level ladder. (lame)

Seutekh
Feb 22, 2001, 08:48 AM
Works for me, check your private messages and hit me back.

SeomanCC
Feb 22, 2001, 12:24 PM
Androids are far from useless...in the mid levels they will definitely outdamage the HUmar slightly and the HUearl quite a bit. But once you hit the 60+ levels they lose their small advantage (and that is not considering the shifta technique which boosts ATP about 200 when you're that high) of higher ATP. They keep their hp advantage (At level 64 my HUmar has 600 hp and my friend's HUcast has 680 at level 65). People will play what they want...if everyone wanted to be the most powerful class there wouldn't be any forces http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif But comparing ability to ability, in the end Androids fall fairly far behind technique using humans in the power game.


Seoman, 64 HUmar
lilseo, 38 FOnewm

Cree
Feb 22, 2001, 02:18 PM
The guy is right, there is no use for andriods besides looking cool. Trap sight? Who cares, I walk through traps anyway, and then cast 1 resta. In the end androids enhanced atp won't mean shit because the other hunters will reach 999 atp just the same. On top of that the other hunters can boost their attack and defense at will (shifta, deband), making any advantages the android had null. Androids can't wear really nice armor like the Parasite Wear: Vajulla.

DCKaz
Feb 22, 2001, 03:26 PM
Cree once again to save the day..
Cree for president!

Shifta I didn't think does anything when you're maxxed AFAIK, any say otherwise?

The avoidance of status effects and 'mine sight' are nice plusses, and more hps and generally beefier.. I mean, how can you fault that? Let us look at this a little..

Solo - run through areas without fear of mines, status effects, cleaving through areas or firing through areas as rangers, with the most accuracy and damage throughput without buffing. They don't care about having mind mags at all. Didya get that?

So they'll reach max damage/accuracy and defense as easily as quick as repeated shifta/deband casts if not quicker, and they'll normally charge photons faster than humans (just what I've noted) where they could have shifta/deband on a mag. Further, before a boss their mag might have passed one anyways.

In a group? They'll exceed Humans, for they'll have a Forces/others shifta/deband, which could easily exceed your own.. on top of their mag. It might be argued they could have given a little more to the mechs, but I've found things pretty well balanced in general.

When I get more time we'll delve into the maxxes.. I still don't get the android prejudice personally, there's not a stronger tank in a pack. I love my HUnewearl friends, but honest to goodness sometimes I feel like I'm a better tank as a FOmarl (!) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif All are very viable groupers and solo workers, and some bots just look too dang cool doing their thing too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif

DCKaz

Mun-KEE
Feb 22, 2001, 04:04 PM
Wow. Everyone feels so strongly about the other classes...

Anyway, here is my contribution to it all...
True, the lack of techniques is a problem... but it isnt really a problem unless you go solo. I am a high level Force now, and usually none of the Hunters need to ever cast spells... unless to cast a silly lil attack spell for the area of effect. Why is this? I am the healer. My resta will make Hunters look small in range and hp... and my shifta and deband add more and last longer... because it is what I do. Then it comes down to the Hunters only casting a spell when they are in desperate need for HP and I am far away... usually not all that often. therefore, a 'mate will usually function just as well. I have noticed that the classes get a tad unbalanced by the time that they reach 100... I wish Sega would have put some more differences at that level. As previously stated, ATP maxes out at 999... so w/ a good weapon at a high level, it doesnt matter which hunter you are. The HP dif isnt huge, and so on. But... how many of us are lv 100? I have put in 92 hours and am 66. Quite frankly, when I get to Lv 100? I am starting a new character. The ability to grow is a big one, and that is lost at that level. So IMO it doesnt matter what your stats are like in the end... cuz at lv 100, how many times do you really need to break out your lv 6-8 Razonde? which will only do 130 -140 damage? Or hit with that big ol nasty cloud strife-like sword and do easily that much in just one weak hit? Range? Use a pistol if you need it. This is pretty lengthy and I am rambling on, but I love grouping w/ bots, because they are someone who really benefits from my strengths... I find w/ a lot of force using Hunters, they insist upon casting Shifta and Deband on themselves... and then when I cast mine (lv 14 and 15 respectively) over theirs they get upset... even though mine last longer (ALOT longer) and adds more. Also, when we fought the Hard Dark Falz, there was a bot w/ us that was 5 levels lower... and yes, he ran outta moon atomizers AND mates, because he was the only one that could survive Grants... techs dont do you a whole lot while lying in a puddle of your own fluids on the floor.

To sum it all up, Androids are great, and I for one love playing w/ them.

SeomanCC
Feb 22, 2001, 04:27 PM
"Shifta I didn't think does anything when you're maxxed AFAIK, any say otherwise? "

Shifta does nothing if you have 999 Attack with your currently equipped weapon. If a HUmar and Android both have 999 attack, then the androids attack advantage is obviously nullified. If they are mid level and say the android has 500 attack while the human only has 440. A single shifta spell will put the human at 540+ giving HIM the attack advantage instead of the android. The same goes for defense via Deband.

"The avoidance of status effects and 'mine sight' are nice plusses, and more hps and generally beefier.. I mean, how can you fault that? Let us look at this a little.."

The avoidance of status effects and mines is completely negligible. I run through mines and cast a single resta for a complete heal at the end, costing only 20ish of my 550 max TP. Status effects are removed wiht a quick anti spell. Either of these are also used to help my TEAMMATES as well as myself. So in regards to your question, I don't fault this android ability at all, but neither do I credit it since it's near meaningless.

"Solo - run through areas without fear of mines, status effects, cleaving through areas or firing through areas as rangers, with the most accuracy and damage throughput without buffing. They don't care about having mind mags at all. Didya get that?"

a) androids have the lowest accuracy of the hunters, not the highest. b) I've already addressed their damage, they have no advantage in this area, rather a disadvantage if you look at it carefully. c) No hunter need care about mind mags...they do far more damage physically than the best force could ever hope to do wiht techniques, and with a mag of no MST bonus, they will still get high level support and heal spells. Claiming 'no need to develop mind mags' as a pro for androids is a pretty desperate stretch http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif

"So they'll reach max damage/accuracy and defense as easily as quick as repeated shifta/deband casts if not quicker"

Not even close, Androids barely get higher attack, defense, and hp as it is. Shifta and Deband give more of a bonus as your attack and defense ratings rise. Like I said, at level 64/65, my HUmar has 600 hp and my hunter friend has 680. Even the hp bonus is completely trivial unfortunately. Perrsonally I think Androids should have their ATP/lvl, DFP/lvl, and hp/level increased to make up for their crippling deficiencies.

", and they'll normally charge photons faster than humans (just what I've noted) where they could have shifta/deband on a mag. Further, before a boss their mag might have passed one anyways."

Heh I have no idea what your point is regarding androids here but if it's regarding the odd shifta/deband they get from a mag to refute humans having the actual technique, then there is no need for me to bother with a rebuttal http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif

"In a group? They'll exceed Humans, for they'll have a Forces/others shifta/deband, which could easily exceed your own.. on top of their mag. It might be argued they could have given a little more to the mechs, but I've found things pretty well balanced in general. "

Any player who relies on others for his survival will be spending a lot of time waiting on 'Reversers' from said teammates http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif Group heals come frequently through both conincidence (you happen to be in range of someone healing themselves) and intention (someone notices your hp drop and heals near you to help you out), but the time you need a split second heal and count on someone else to do it is the time you're going to drop http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif Everyone knows how annoying it is to have teammates who are dependent. I have the utmost respect for Androids who can beat Falz on VHard without having to level excessively to do so.

"When I get more time we'll delve into the maxxes.. I still don't get the android prejudice personally, there's not a stronger tank in a pack. I love my HUnewearl friends, but honest to goodness sometimes I feel like I'm a better tank as a FOmarl (!) All are very viable groupers and solo workers, and some bots just look too dang cool doing their thing too "

Bots are the best tanks no doubt, they are about 3% better at taking damage than a HUmar and maybe 5% better than a HUnewearl. The glaring deficiencies they have far overbalance their negligable advantage. They DO look cool though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif I play a force now because I enjoy the challenge and diversity, but you're not gonna catch me saying it's because they rock hunters heh. Smart hunters will clear rooms at double the speed minimum, and therefore level and find loot at double the speed. Hunters have it easy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

Seo

MunKEE
Feb 22, 2001, 05:10 PM
Here is the problem w/ this thread. It is the same problem w/ the Pathetic Forces thread.

Unless you are trying to get people riled up, dont name a thread something negative vs a class. It just gets the members of the class all riled up before they EVEN read the thread.

The 2nd problem is that whether a class rules or sucks is all based upon opinion. I have seen rebutals and re-rebutals to every post so far w/ facts.

My opinion is that at level 100 the Humar and Hunewarl are probably the best in the game. Because they hit as hard as the Hucast, and have limited technique usage. They get to use some of the coolest looking weapons in the game, and even get to use a shotgun (spread needle). Why sega decided to so unbalance this class (all hunters) at high levels is beyond me...

In the end, play what you want. Style points add for alot of enjoyment, I can attest to that. I am starting to dislike my character, not because of his stats, but because he looks stupid. At level 100 I will be about as good as a FOmarl, but there will be one big dif. She will look nice in her long purty dress and all. And I will look like a circus freak with a large rear end.


I dont let anyone tell me Forces are dumb and boring, cuz to me they arent... I can kill with style (I love the Rafoie fx), and that is what I get a kick out of. Dont let anyone tell you Hucasts are worthless, cuz if you wanna play it, then he isnt.

Good gaming all. Hope to see ya all online! I usually hang out in Ophelia 10 in a vhard game. Look me up if you wanna play!

Brimstone
Feb 22, 2001, 07:47 PM
id just like to say if you think hucasts have it easy they dont they're always at the front of battle taking most of the damage and hits. They need lots of healing and need it at any time. If hunters werent there to distract enemies and do some serios damage the otheres classes would be getting quickly surrounded and getting their asses kicked.

Ghen
Feb 22, 2001, 09:29 PM
Remember, opinions are like assholes, everyone has them . And I think Cree and SeomanCC are idiots, just my opinion ;p. Anyways, I'll prove that shifta does make a difference past 999 attack, get me someone who can cast on me, I'll meet you somewhere, and I'll fight some monsters with and without it. We'll record the damage that is done and average it. 500k meseta says there will be a signifigant damage increase. One point I'd like to make about HUcasts that this thread hasn't touched.

1. Higher ata. We are more acurate with our attacks.

Add in the most HP, and we are the best tanks by a decent margin. Nuff said nay sayers, I'm a better tank than my weak fleshling counterparts ;p

Btw Faye, one thing that all your party should be using when fighting Dark Falz. 4 slot armor. What do you put in the slots? 4 Resist/Saints. Surviving Grants just became a whole lot easier. It's not the androids fault he had to blow all his or her MA on you guys before the fourth form. Lates http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif

DCKaz
Feb 22, 2001, 09:37 PM
Ok I agree with Monkee, but some of the bits are just off too.. why do I have to go to data and maxes to disapprove even the prejudiced hardcore finatics? chuckles..



On 2001-02-22 13:27, SeomanCC wrote:
Shifta does nothing if you have 999 Attack with your currently equipped weapon. If a HUmar and Android both have 999 attack, then the androids attack advantage is obviously nullified. If they are mid level and say the android has 500 attack while the human only has 440. A single shifta spell will put the human at 540+ giving HIM the attack advantage instead of the android. The same goes for defense via Deband.


So you help my point in defense of androids at top out.. casting those buffs won't help much or at all in the end. In the middle.. do you deny having a Mag focus on whatever you desire doesn't help? AFAIK Shifta just helps atp and not ata right? A Mag can with dex. And you can beef your defense. Sure a hybrid can to, but what hybrid won't up mind along the way.. taking away from other stats? And of course, you get these buffs for free from others/mags a fair bit to boot.. upping the android with higher stats *and* a higher mag.. even higher (before hitting cap).



The avoidance of status effects and mines is completely negligible. I run through mines and cast a single resta for a complete heal at the end, costing only 20ish of my 550 max TP. Status effects are removed wiht a quick anti spell. Either of these are also used to help my TEAMMATES as well as myself. So in regards to your question, I don't fault this android ability at all, but neither do I credit it since it's near meaningless.


Ok I mostly agree if this doesn't include confusion and paralysis. However someone seemed to suggest it might, and I know reducing either of those could be big helps now and then. My biggest point is even if they don't (I'm not thinking they do) they'll see the traps that confuse/slow/paralyze/freeze where we blunder through and resta after (yes I do that too) - here though can be some critical problems solo and at least a pain in the butt in a group. Agreed not a hot item, but when you're maximizing effectiveness they *know* they can zip through areas, atleast with other monsters running around a confuse/freeze at least can go from minor annoyance to death pretty easily.



a) androids have the lowest accuracy of the hunters, not the highest.


We're talking rangers here too. Look again.
I don't see where they are lower, regardless of how you shake it. Android rangers have *the* highest accuracy. All of them have more hitpoints. The HUcast only has lower accuracy than a RAmar, and matches the humans. Huh?

Fine, make me dredge up japenese maxes, and lets look-

ata: humar 142 hunewearl 138 hucast 150
What part of that do you not understand???

*ANDROID HUNTERS MOST ACCURACY of class
*ANDROID RANGERS MOST ACCURACY of class

yeah not by a ton, but LOWER???????



b) I've already addressed their damage, they have no advantage in this area, rather a disadvantage if you look at it carefully. c) No hunter need care about mind mags...they do far more damage physically than the best force could ever hope to do wiht techniques, and with a mag of no MST bonus, they will still get high level support and heal spells. Claiming 'no need to develop mind mags' as a pro for androids is a pretty desperate stretch http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif


I simply don't see your damage argument at all, nor the mag playing out in reality. I haven't met a hyrbid yet that doesn't plunk ability into Mind. Even if you subscribe to that, a Hucast starts as a harder hitter. So even when a self mag isn't casting these spells, or a photon charge doesn't do it, when in a group with a force/other buffer/even the human in question themselves, they will do more damage then the human.





", and they'll normally charge photons faster than humans (just what I've noted) where they could have shifta/deband on a mag. Further, before a boss their mag might have passed one anyways."

Heh I have no idea what your point is regarding androids here but if it's regarding the odd shifta/deband they get from a mag to refute humans having the actual technique, then there is no need for me to bother with a rebuttal http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif


Photons charging a lot means more photon blasts.. which can be yet another way to get shifta/deband, if not clear a crowd. All I know is when I run around as an android I almost feel like I'm chain casting photon blasts compared to other combinations I've toyed with. Considering invunerability, effects, heals, etc come for free, plus the 10% = might keep healing you (and androids have the best chance to survive to 10% hps).. I think it's something to consider.



"In a group? They'll exceed Humans, for they'll have a Forces/others shifta/deband, which could easily exceed your own.. on top of their mag. It might be argued they could have given a little more to the mechs, but I've found things pretty well balanced in general. "

Any player who relies on others for his survival will be spending a lot of time waiting on 'Reversers' from said teammates http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif Group heals come frequently through both conincidence (you happen to be in range of someone healing themselves) and intention (someone notices your hp drop and heals near you to help you out), but the time you need a split second heal and count on someone else to do it is the time you're going to drop http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif Everyone knows how annoying it is to have teammates who are dependent. I have the utmost respect for Androids who can beat Falz on VHard without having to level excessively to do so.


Guess we'll agree to disagree. With more of an hp pool, Androids rarely are crippled and dropped before a resta will heal them, one certainly doesn't have to wait till near death (I'd understand that if it was your argument vs playing around at 10% health tho heh). I guess my biggest point is.. you're grouping to get the most out of the game normally right? Well you probably will be kept buffed by the casters.. and given the natural higher start of the android and looking 0% at mind, it's likely he's a little more powerful than your average human at worst.. and with the buffs will continue to be so.



Bots are the best tanks no doubt, they are about 3% better at taking damage than a HUmar and maybe 5% better than a HUnewearl. The glaring deficiencies they have far overbalance their negligable advantage. They DO look cool though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif I play a force now because I enjoy the challenge and diversity, but you're not gonna catch me saying it's because they rock hunters heh. Smart hunters will clear rooms at double the speed minimum, and therefore level and find loot at double the speed. Hunters have it easy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif
Seo


Well I can't say I buy the percentages, but I won't deny spells don't help.. heck I'm a FOmarl and I enjoy it a lot. Nor do I know if I buy the overpowered hunter theory.. I'm still waiting for hunters to outdo my level of carnage in a group, guess I'll wait and see http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif

All that said, I guess it comes down to taste. Yeah maybe we all should be Necromancers in EQ.. they are unbalanced and by far the best character. That said, grouping is not optimal with them alone, and there's something to be said for variety of experience and identifying with a character you enjoy. I agree, the top out levels should be better for androids, and EQ went through several tank overhauls. But in the end I stuck with an Enchanter not because they rock (in some ways faaar from it), but because they have their own style, and own place. Groups of all mixes work well in this game, but if I was focused ultra hardcore, I might argue 2 Newmen Forces and 2 Android Hunters would be the ultimate group, and rule out the hybrids entirely. You could argue otherwise.. but you might lose too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif

For me it's a lot more about the journey getting there and the variety.. having nothing but hybrids running around would be as boring as nothing but newmen forces and android hunters running around.

Anyhow play what you like. I'm levelling almost effortlessly on hard/vhard when I get online.. and the server lets me stay http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif it's hard for me to believe it's so much easier for another class. And even if it was that's not necessarily fun.. I've avoided the Barbarian class in Diablo2 entirely for that very reason.

DCKaz

MunKEE
Feb 22, 2001, 09:51 PM
DCKaz, have I ever told you that I like to grab a bowl of popcorn before I start reading your posts? =-)

One of the things that keep fueling this post it seems is the problems when players max at level 100. Yes, they are similar. But seriously. Who here is lv 100? Do you realize how much TIME you have to put into this game to get there? I hear about people with 200 hours put in. That is 5 work weeks. 1 month if you play on the weekend.

Most of the game, I think the Hucast has the advantage. Plain and simple. True, eventually the other classes may eclipse him because of his lack of spell casting. But before that, he WILL do more damage. He WILL soak up more hits. And he WON'T die as often.

Anyway. I think I wanna go create a new topic;
Rangers Suck.
They are the only ones that havent been attacked yet. =-)
By the way, I was just kidding there, so dont start disagreeing or agreeing w/ me.

No go out there and have fun, and dont worry if other people say you suck. Remember fun? That is what the game is about. Not making the ultimate warrior. If that is what is fun for you, then fine, go with what is best. But just remember, you will look like 70% of all the people you meet, as everyone plays Humar now adays.

Cree
Feb 23, 2001, 01:14 AM
As for info about shifta....YES, IT DOES RAISE YOUR ATTACK ABILITY ABOVE 999. You won't see it in your stats, but your attack power increases significantly even when your atp is at 999. So even when you are at 999 atp, keep shifta on at all times.