Lavis Cannon or Yamato [Archive]

iamfanboy

Jul 13, 2004, 09:24 PM

Except for one minor thing about comparing those two items, Quo:

An untekked lavis is good and useful, capable of rocking anywhere as long as you have enough ATA to hit with it.

A Dark Flow is garbage, and only a fool (or someone who's REALLY GOOD) would use it. No combo? Special only works when you are at 10% HP? Meh.

The only good PG: Flow weapon is the Bridge, and that's just because it looks REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY COOL.

Of course, by your standards I am far from legit. I have a USB memory card that I use to back everything I ever get up, because FSOD is shit. I use an untekked lavis, unless I'm asked not to (several of my German friends take exception to it, since they fixed that glitch in their version).

I rank politeness to my fellow players above anything else in this game. Admittedly, far more dupers are assholes than legit players, because they never did anything to earn the great great weapons and armours that they use, they take whatever red boxes drop, and overall they have no consideration for their fellow players.

HOWEVER, I have played with legit players who are inconsiderate pricks. Using Yas9ks to wipe large rooms clean before my android can so much as tag for experience, then sneering at me for 'playing such a weak character', isn't exactly the kind of person I enjoy playing with. Not casting jellen and zalure when you're the only one in the party with those Techs, EVEN WHEN YOU'RE ASKED POLITELY, is not the kind of person I like playing with.

Ya wanna know what? I don't care if the person in my party is legit or not, as long as they know how to play the game well and aren't complete dickweeds.

Maybe that means that I am a loser. Maybe that means that I just have a different set of morals than you. But whatever. I play this game to have fun, so do you, and if someone in the game I'm in isn't having fun I'm perfectly willing to set aside the untekked lavis and match your style of play, so that we all can enjoy the game.

Oh, and by the way, Quo, I know for a fact that Kef has the PG: Flow weapons (heck, he showed a picture of one of his characters USING IT!), so does Ian-Kun X, so do several of the most experienced players that I know. Does that make them losers?

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I doubt it. And I also seriously doubt your opinion matters to them, and it definitely don't matter to me.

Quo

Jul 13, 2004, 09:47 PM

On 2004-07-13 19:24, iamfanboy wrote:
Except for one minor thing about comparing those two items, Quo:

An untekked lavis is good and useful, capable of rocking anywhere as long as you have enough ATA to hit with it.

A Dark Flow is garbage, and only a fool (or someone who's REALLY GOOD) would use it. No combo? Special only works when you are at 10% HP? Meh.

My point was not about the usefulness of the item. I am well aware that the Dark Flow blows major crap; I was just using it as an example. My point was that both the untekked lavis's strength and the Dark Weapons are not supposed to exist. Cheating is Cheating.

The only good PG: Flow weapon is the Bridge, and that's just because it looks REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY COOL.

IMO all the Dark weapons look like crap, but thats not why I posted. Moving on.

Of course, by your standards I am far from legit. I have a USB memory card that I use to back everything I ever get up, because FSOD is shit. I use an untekked lavis, unless I'm asked not to (several of my German friends take exception to it, since they fixed that glitch in their version).

Yep, You're a cheater.

I rank politeness to my fellow players above anything else in this game. Admittedly, far more dupers are assholes than legit players, because they never did anything to earn the great great weapons and armours that they use, they take whatever red boxes drop, and overall they have no consideration for their fellow players.

HOWEVER, I have played with legit players who are inconsiderate pricks. Using Yas9ks to wipe large rooms clean before my android can so much as tag for experience, then sneering at me for 'playing such a weak character', isn't exactly the kind of person I enjoy playing with. Not casting jellen and zalure when you're the only one in the party with those Techs, EVEN WHEN YOU'RE ASKED POLITELY, is not the kind of person I like playing with.

Ya wanna know what? I don't care if the person in my party is legit or not, as long as they know how to play the game well and aren't complete dickweeds.

I wouldn't S/D you. I'm an inconsiderate prick. OK. looks like were both willing to make concessions here. I follow the way of the warrior. Yes, even in video games. If you're strong, you're strong of yourself. You have to be your own pillar. If you're weak, you die. You shouldn't ask for help from others. Depending on others makes you weak. You should know what you're getting yourself into when you choose a HUcast et al.

Maybe that means that I am a loser. Maybe that means that I just have a different set of morals than you. But whatever. I play this game to have fun, so do you, and if someone in the game I'm in isn't having fun I'm perfectly willing to set aside the untekked lavis and match your style of play, so that we all can enjoy the game.

Yes, it seems our respective styles are very different from each other.

Oh, and by the way, Quo, I know for a fact that Kef has the PG: Flow weapons (heck, he showed a picture of one of his characters USING IT!), so does Ian-Kun X, so do several of the most experienced players that I know. Does that make them losers?

It definately gives them some loserly qualities. I'm sure I've given you plenty of reasons to tag me as a loser. As I said, we're both willing to make concessions. But, you know what? I still respect you and Kef and Ian and others for the knowledge you have and the work that you've done. IMO hacking is the worst form of cheating, but I respect Barubary. She has unravelled many of PSOs most confounding mysteries.

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I doubt it. And I also seriously doubt your opinion matters to them, and it definitely don't matter to me.

Too bad, you get my opinions anyway.

iamfanboy

Jul 13, 2004, 10:00 PM

Ah! But PSO is a game of teamwork, Quo!

One of the best games that I had recently with my HUcaseal was with a team of a HUmar, RAcaseal, HUcast, and me.

Yep, you heard me right. Not a single character capable of casting s/d... but me. With my S-Red Blades.

And we rocked all the way through the caves and on into the mines, thanks to that elusive gem known as TEAMWORK.

Ya see, androids can do stuff that fleshies can't. I don't much like playing 'em, personally, but they fill out a role in a team. Clearing trapped rooms, laying freezes and confuses of their own, and being generally tougher and stronger than fleshies.

So, if I can do MY job in a team by laying traps, clearing traps, and the like, why wouldn't YOU do your job by using s/d/j/z?

It just didn't make sense to me why she wouldn't cast them, and why she persisted in tagging with Rafoie instead of the much more useful j/z...

I walk the Path of Humanity, Quo. It's all well and good to say that one should be strong in and of himself, but a group is stronger than any individual. Besides, if you want to be strong by yourself, just play offline. You won't have to fork out nine bucks a month or risk dealing with durty cheating assholes like myself.

For myself, I enjoy playing the characters who can do any job required in a team (RAmarl, HUnewearl, and FOmar are my most played characters because of s/d/j/z and decent attack ability), but it's nice for a change to go complete support (FOnewearl or FOmarl), or go complete offense robot-style (HUcaseal).

Mixfortune

Jul 13, 2004, 10:12 PM

On 2004-07-13 19:47, Quo wrote:

On 2004-07-13 19:24, iamfanboy wrote:

Of course, by your standards I am far from legit. I have a USB memory card that I use to back everything I ever get up, because FSOD is shit. I use an untekked lavis, unless I'm asked not to (several of my German friends take exception to it, since they fixed that glitch in their version).

Yep, You're a cheater.

In that sense, ST is a cheater for having us pay per month to lose our characters and items to methods outside of our control, regardless of our play style.

Personally, I think saving 1000s of hours of legitimate work that can be gone for no wrong thing on the player's fault is worth the possible "rants" of legitimates who possibly think losing everything is OK by the game's standards.

Backups may not be intended by ST, but neither are FSODs and corruptions, and they are the equal level of cancellation (just saying that as to not say I condone all forms of possible hacking).

Backups for the sole purpose of helping yourself against FSOD and corruption outside of your control only "harm" those that would normally be harmed by FSOD and corruption in the first place.

Now, as for the Lavis Cannon and Yamato question, I stick by my previous statements.

Cc08

Jul 13, 2004, 10:19 PM

Yep, You're a cheater.Lol, I guess you are uber-legit or something. He is NOT using his USB memory card to dupe, so he isn't cheating. The untekked Lavis special is a glitch. Well, the producers didn't put FSOD/BSOD in there on purpose (except if you leave online the wrong way). The double-save thing is a glitch, too, and was also fixed in later versions of the game, just like the Lavis. He is simply finding a way so the glitch doesn't mess his experience up.

[ This Message was edited by: Cc08 on 2004-07-13 20:20 ]

Quo

Jul 13, 2004, 10:24 PM

On 2004-07-13 20:00, iamfanboy wrote:
Ah! But PSO is a game of teamwork, Quo!. . . So, if I can do MY job in a team by laying traps, clearing traps, and the like, why wouldn't YOU do your job by using s/d/j/z?. . . I walk the Path of Humanity, Quo. It's all well and good to say that one should be strong in and of himself, but a group is stronger than any individual.

TEAMWORK, WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING TEAMWORK!! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

But seriously, I think you would be appalled to see such a lack of team work as when my friends and I play multimode. But we still pwn. Instead of one team playing one style, we are 2-3 people each playing his own style. Its very effective. Maybe this is why we suck in c-mode. . .

Why wouldn't I cast support techs? Well, the answer is simple. They make you physically strong and mentally weak.

A group geared toward playing as a group is easily defeated when split apart. But imagine a group where each individual is strong of himself but can still work within the group. The group is strong, and the individuals are strong when they are separated. This is my philosophy, this is how I play.

Besides, if you want to be strong by yourself, just play offline. You won't have to fork out nine bucks a month or risk dealing with durty cheating assholes like myself.

I am offline. Exclusively (hopefully not for long though). And I never called you an asshole. As far as I can tell, you are a durty cheating nice guy. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Quo

Jul 13, 2004, 10:29 PM

On 2004-07-13 20:19, Cc08 wrote:

Yep, You're a cheater.Lol, I guess you are uber-legit or something. He is NOT using his USB memory card to dupe, so he isn't cheating. The untekked Lavis special is a glitch. Well, the producers didn't put FSOD/BSOD in there on purpose (except if you leave online the wrong way). The double-save thing is a glitch, too, and was also fixed in later versions of the game, just like the Lavis. He is simply finding a way so the glitch doesn't mess his experience up.

Using a glitch to your advantage is cheating. I shouldn't need to say it again. I think its fairly simple.

As for being "Uber-legit": I don't do the things that aren't supposed to be done. The things that Sonic team doesn't want us doing I don't do. If that makes me "Uber-legit" then I think its about time someone raise the bar a little.

As for FSOD: If you mean to say that that is the game cheating, that's fine with me. We, however, do not need to cheat to even the playing field.

Quo

Jul 13, 2004, 10:32 PM

On 2004-07-13 20:12, Mixfortune wrote:

In that sense, ST is a cheater for having us pay per month to lose our characters and items to methods outside of our control, regardless of our play style.

Personally, I think saving 1000s of hours of legitimate work that can be gone for no wrong thing on the player's fault is worth the possible "rants" of legitimates who possibly think losing everything is OK by the game's standards.

Backups may not be intended by ST, but neither are FSODs and corruptions, and they are the equal level of cancellation (just saying that as to not say I condone all forms of possible hacking).

Backups for the sole purpose of helping yourself against FSOD and corruption outside of your control only "harm" those that would normally be harmed by FSOD and corruption in the first place.

Now, as for the Lavis Cannon and Yamato question, I stick by my previous statements.

Again, the game cheats. So what? Don't like it? Don't play. We don't need to cheat to even the playing field. I had something else to say, but I forgot what it was.

BladeofDarkness

Jul 13, 2004, 10:38 PM

If using a glitch to one's advantage is cheating then what's your opinion on piping rare enemies? If I remember correctly you have two lavis cannons, something tells me you didn't get those just by doing runs. Also, your views on teamwork are appalling, I pity any future teammates you may have if you get online. Mentally weak? Supporting is keeping your friends from dying and speading up the pace, that's your job, If you don't want it then you should be a HUcast.

Mixfortune

Jul 13, 2004, 10:38 PM

"Don't like it, don't play" is not a valid argument in this case, since I am taking measures to protect myself against it. I'm not the one that "doesn't like it". http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Quo

Jul 13, 2004, 10:51 PM

On 2004-07-13 20:38, BladeofDarkness wrote:
If using a glitch to one's advantage is cheating then what's your opinion on piping rare enemies? If I remember correctly you have two lavis cannons, something tells me you didn't get those just by doing runs. Also, your views on teamwork are appalling, I pity any future teammates you may have if you get online. Mentally weak? Supporting is keeping your friends from dying and speading up the pace, that's your job, If you don't want it then you should be a HUcast.

Piping is not cheating. Piping is not a glitch. Piping is working within the system to your advantage. Sonic Team intentionally programmed the monster data to reset when you go back to town.

Don't worry about online. I'll only play with my friends. They follow the same philosophy I do. Thats why we're are strong as a group: because we're strong as individuals. You can stay far away if want. I don't consider it any great loss.

Yes, Mentally weak. Once you're used to always having S/D/J/Z, what will you do when you can't have it? If you don't know your own strengths and weaknesses you die. You have to be strong always, not just when your teammates are around.

I have a HUcaseal. I am strong with her, as an individual. Not as a piece of a team. I refuse to ask for S/D.

Mixfortune: If you like the game. You should be able to play it without cheating.

[ This Message was edited by: Quo on 2004-07-13 20:52 ]

SpyroDi

Jul 13, 2004, 11:10 PM

Meh...who cares about the way people play. It's just a game of choice,a playing style of choice,a character of choice. We should all just deal with it since we can't do a damn thing but make text on a message board and somehow take offense to it.

Also,I have legit AND unlegit characters,does that make me a cheater?

Quo

Jul 13, 2004, 11:15 PM

On 2004-07-13 21:10, SpyroDi wrote:
Meh...who cares about the way people play. It's just a game of choice,a playing style of choice,a character of choice. We should all just deal with it since we can't do a damn thing but make text on a message board and somehow take offense to it.

Also,I have legit AND unlegit characters,does that make me a cheater?

And a Weapon of Choice! I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

If you have unlegit characters, then yes, by definition you are a cheater.

SpyroDi

Jul 13, 2004, 11:29 PM

I forgot the weapon thing. =P

I guess you're right,by definition,anyway. I just like to mix up my playing style due to moods and possibly boredom.

[on topic]
Asuka is better than both of them when max grinded.

Shintaro04

Jul 13, 2004, 11:34 PM

On 2004-07-13 21:29, SpyroDi wrote:
[on topic]
Asuka is better than both of them when max grinded.

lol, just what in my mind.
Asuka Rocks!

BladeofDarkness

Jul 14, 2004, 01:25 AM

On 2004-07-13 20:51, Quo wrote:

Piping is not cheating. Piping is not a glitch. Piping is working within the system to your advantage. Sonic Team intentionally programmed the monster data to reset when you go back to town.

Don't worry about online. I'll only play with my friends. They follow the same philosophy I do. Thats why we're are strong as a group: because we're strong as individuals. You can stay far away if want. I don't consider it any great loss.

Yes, Mentally weak. Once you're used to always having S/D/J/Z, what will you do when you can't have it? If you don't know your own strengths and weaknesses you die. You have to be strong always, not just when your teammates are around.

I have a HUcaseal. I am strong with her, as an individual. Not as a piece of a team. I refuse to ask for S/D.

1. LOL working within the system eh? One could easily, EASILY, say the same about an untekked cannon. "Hey, sega made it that way, I'm just using it to my advantage"

2. I'm not even going to try and debate this with you anymore, you're dead set on being the worst fo ever and I can't change how you play.

3. Heh, I join all android teams alot with my HUc, I wish I could have the extra boosts of S/D but I make due, it's not that hard. BUT, the biggest reason to go online is to have a supporting TEAM. When someone joins a game with a force in it, it is that force's duty as a member of a team to support.

4. I'm strong by myself with my Hucast/Ramar too but I like the bonus of high level S/D, it's not weakness, it's just like sharpening a blade and putting on armor. A fairly sharp blade and chain mail can get you through a fight, but a truly sharp sword and some nice armor makes it much easier.

[ This Message was edited by: BladeofDarkness on 2004-07-13 23:27 ]

Quo

Jul 14, 2004, 01:35 AM

On 2004-07-13 23:25, BladeofDarkness wrote:

1. LOL working within the system eh? One could easily, EASILY, say the same about an untekked cannon. "Hey, sega made it that way, I'm just using it to my advantage"

2. I'm not even going to try and debate this with you anymore, you're dead set on being the worst fo ever and I can't change how you play.

3. Heh, I join all android teams alot with my HUc, I wish I could have the extra boosts of S/D but I make due, it's not that hard. BUT, the biggest reason to go online is to have a supporting TEAM. When someone joins a game with a force in it, it is that force's duty as a member of a team to support.

4. I'm strong by myself with my Hucast/Ramar too but I like the bonus of high level S/D it's not weakness,
it's just like sharpening a blade and putting on armor, a fairly sharp blade and chain mail can get you through a fight, but a truly sharp blade and some nice armor makes it much easier.

1. The difference is that the one is intentional and the other is not.

2. I didn't think you would understand. But in this lies true and undeniable strength.

3. My reason for going online would be the online only quests and the ability to play with friends not some random team. There is no such thing as duty. Your mind makes it a duty. Again, thinking from the perspective of a piece of a whole, you cannot understand the strength in multiple individuals with their own styles working together.

4. You have shown your weakness right there. You see that a sharp sword and strong armor are better than a dull sword and weak armor, but you have not given thought to having no armor and no sword at all. Once your mind is free from these limitations, you will find strength.

Maskim

Jul 14, 2004, 02:59 AM

Daaaaaymn. What's intentional, what wasn't, and how ST made it. Sorry, but unless you were in the room helping to design the game, you're not going to know what was intended. Sure, we can guess, and we can read interviews and such, but you really just don't know.

As for teamwork, and being strong on one's own.. interesting theory, not for multiplayer though. I'm just guessing, but I doubt many would disagree with the opinion that ST intended for teamwork to be used in multiplayer situations. Maybe, just maybe, that is why different characters have different strengths and weaknesses. The force heals and buffs me, the ranger lays down support fire, and I, the hunter, jump in the enemy's face and take them on close range. We all have our jobs as an effective team. Force heals/buffs me, I in turn defend him, and keep enemies off him/her. We help each other. Healing keeps me alive, and S/D increases my effectiveness, which in turn does nothing but aid the force, as I'm his meat shield. He doesn't need to worry about dying, with his lower HP and defense, because I've got his back... as long as he's got mine.

Does this make me weak? Nope. Play single player all the time, online as well. Depends on if I'm in the mood to play with others or just want to slash stuffs by myself. As such, my main character is a humar. Enough attack power, defense, and accuracy to handle situations, and some spells, to heal and support myself. I don't have S/D. I don't need S/D. It's a nice luxory to have, and if I'm playing in a group with a force, I expect them to cast it. It's their job, as was intended by the game's creators.

With good teamwork, you can handle many situations that should be beyond yourself. Never, until I got online, did I defeat Olga on Ultimate. Online, with good teamwork, and not cheating btw, it was done at lvl 85. Sure, there were deaths involved, but we helped each other.

The Roman army was incredibly successful and feared, not because they were each individually strong and 'good warriors'. It was because of the intense discipline and....oh yeah, teamwork.

That went on quite a bit longer than I meant it to, but in closing, I just thought I'd put up a link to this topic. Quite similar to what this has become, and a humorous story. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=2000044&topic=15107241

Tareek

Jul 14, 2004, 04:47 AM

Quo, if the mind is above all and the sharp blade and the heavy armor is only but a delusion that weakens the mind. Why would you bother to search for a stronger weapon (Lavis cannon anybody?), armor, battle units? Why not use what the developers gave you when you started your first game (cane, frame and no shield?). And, on the other Hand, ST made Shifta and Deband, they made Jellen and Zalure. Do you really think they made it to lay abandoned? I dont think so!
But you'll see when you get online, youll be glad to have that Deband when you enter Ult East/West Tower online. Enemies are a lot harder online, believe me.

Mixfortune

Jul 14, 2004, 05:47 AM

On 2004-07-13 20:51, Quo wrote:

Mixfortune: If you like the game. You should be able to play it without cheating.

[ This Message was edited by: Quo on 2004-07-13 20:52 ]

Please stop the circular arguments. It's getting nowhere.
If it makes me a cheater to you, then see me as a cheater. It certainly won't matter to me and a good number of other people. If you think backing up items for helping against FSOD and corruption is a bad thing, then I can't change your mind about that.

Note that it's not like I'm doing anything like spreading them around. If I were to trade a backed up item online (I don't even trade online anyways due to potential duped and hacked items) I would remove all backups of the item as well.

But, I cannot change how you see the situation, and I won't bother trying to. It seems rather odd to consider backups against FSOD and corruption in the same group as malicious hackers and more extreme forms of cheating, is all. If you were to go that far, then wouldn't everyone who ever played online be a cheater, since they were able to gain experience or hunt items faster with other potential cheaters or players who have once played with cheaters, whether indirectly or not?

If you really want to continue, PM me and we can talk more. But I think we're pretty much done on this.

[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2004-07-14 03:49 ]

Jack

Jul 14, 2004, 10:47 AM

On 2004-07-13 19:24, iamfanboy wrote:
Ya wanna know what? I don't care if the person in my party is legit or not, as long as they know how to play the game well and aren't complete dickweeds.

HIGH FUCKING FIVE. This is my own view, in a nutshell.

Natron

Jul 14, 2004, 10:51 AM

Wait a minute though. I seem to remember reading that in PSO+ (which most people seem to want) A hacked mag or stacked items, ect. Could cause changes in the game, like lower rare drop rates ( which is the reason most of us play the game, for items)

Ketchup345

Jul 14, 2004, 10:57 AM

On 2004-07-14 08:51, Natron wrote:
Wait a minute though. I seem to remember reading that in PSO+ (which most people seem to want) A hacked mag or stacked items, ect. Could cause changes in the game, like lower rare drop rates ( which is the reason most of us play the game, for items)

Yes, that's supposedly true. Stacked items may affect all versions of the game.

But what does this have to do with harmless back-ups and a certain weapon's special?

Oh, and Quo; 0% of PSO players are 100% legit. Yup, even you have "cheated" somehow (if I could, I'd place $10 on it). Each person has their own definition of legit, which is similar to everyone else's but may include a few differences like backup copies and this weapon's special.

And if you ever lose your items to FSOD/BSOD/FSOD-X, and didn't back them up, you should not complain. You knew you could have protected yourself from this in a way that many consider legit. Oh, and these things can happen to offline onlyplayers too.

Natron

Jul 14, 2004, 11:05 AM

i don't mind backups and stuff, I've lost items to BSOD, and I wish i could back them up. I havent though, and i really dont think my game will let me. That seems fair for me though. Backups can save you.

I don't know the 0% thing though Ketchup. I've never cheated in anyway I can think of, unless you count giving items to weaker characters. In which case, I guess I have http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Ketchup345

Jul 14, 2004, 11:11 AM

On 2004-07-14 09:05, Natron wrote:
I don't know the 0% thing though Ketchup. I've never cheated in anyway I can think of, unless you count giving items to weaker characters. In which case, I guess I have http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

No, I can guarentee you that there is at least one little thing in the ToS/ToA that you (and everyone else) didn't follow 100%; especially if you have ever stepped foot online. There was a thread about this in cheaters a while ago.

Oh, and those "uber-Legits" are actually violating the ToS/ToA quite often, every time they complain about a person using hacks/dupes/whatever; so the ToS/ToA makes even the most legit players unlegit.

Aredhel

Jul 14, 2004, 11:17 AM

Legitimacy is subjective and should not be a basis for judgement. What works, works and what doesn't work should be avoided. As long as an end is in mind, there is truly no right or wrong in this multiverse. Some people tend to preach about limitations of the mind and that they believe there is no limit to how far strength [both mental and physical] can go. This, in itself is a limitation - beliefs tell the mind what to do, how to work, and apparently, who to shun for taking advantage of a game which has taken advantage of them so many times.

there's no right way to eat a Reece's

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Aredhel on 2004-07-14 09:19 ]

jspacemunkey

Jul 14, 2004, 11:36 AM

on-topic -- i'd say go for the lavis cannon. a redria character is a good thing to have anyway. with a few hand-me-downs you should be able to push a new redria character through to ult caves in a few evenings. piping the slimes really isn't bad, and the 1/21 drop rate is not horrible. worth going for one at least.

off-topic --

On 2004-07-14 03:47, Mixfortune wrote:
... wouldn't everyone who ever played online be a cheater, since they were able to gain experience or hunt items faster with other potential cheaters or players who have once played with cheaters, whether indirectly or not?

lol! sounds like cheating is an std or something... when you play pso with someone, you're playing pso with everyone that person has played with. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

i operate on the same philosophy as iamfanboy. if you're a polite, considerate gamer then i don't care if you cheat. if you're respectful of others and are willing to remove offending items, then you're fine by me.

however, i will freely admit that hacking and duping pisses me off. i am legit in the sense that i do not use hacks or dupes and i do not exploit glitches. i would love to be able to trade online but i will not because i don't want to trade the items i've earned through legitimate play for items someone hex-edited into existence. distributing your hacks and dupes, well that's bs. that kind of gaming is asinine.

as for backing stuff up to prevent BSOD and FSOD... i don't see anything wrong with it. for a player like me who spends a lot of time to get the weapons he wants, i will not stand idly by and allow my weapons to get swallowed up because the game has a flaw. er...well, in fairness i have to stand idly by because i cannot back-up my characters on my xbox. the way the save system is designed makes it so that there is no way for me to protect my characters and weapons from corruption, FSOD or BSOD. if i spend hundreds of hours playing a videogame, i expect to be able to save my data safely. as far as i'm concerned sonic team made a really bad decision here.

all that said, i do understand where quo is coming from. using an exploit or breaking a perameter of the game is cheating. i don't think you can craft a valid argument for the opposite. what it comes down to is that there are some perameters i am willing to break (specifically, i would back-up my characters if i could) and there are some that i'm not (duping, hacking, etc.). that makes me a cheater, or would if i could actually back-up my characters, but it doesn't bother me much.

[ This Message was edited by: jspacemunkey on 2004-07-14 09:42 ]

BladeofDarkness

Jul 14, 2004, 11:47 AM

On 2004-07-13 23:35, Quo wrote:

1. The difference is that the one is intentional and the other is not.

2. I didn't think you would understand. But in this lies true and undeniable strength.

3. My reason for going online would be the online only quests and the ability to play with friends not some random team. There is no such thing as duty. Your mind makes it a duty. Again, thinking from the perspective of a piece of a whole, you cannot understand the strength in multiple individuals with their own styles working together.

4. You have shown your weakness right there. You see that a sharp sword and strong armor are better than a dull sword and weak armor, but you have not given thought to having no armor and no sword at all. Once your mind is free from these limitations, you will find strength.

1. Enemies reset inetionally so that when you find a rare enemy LEGITLY you have to be much more careful about how you fight so that you don't die and lose it when you come back.

2. *can't stop laughing*

3. It's a duty because I'm a team player and PSO is a TEAM GAME. LOL I doubt it would work out very well if in a war you and your buddies went running around like idiots in all different directions, you have to have some semblance of teamwork to survive.

4. -_-......I used a weapon and armor analogy because I doubt you go fisticuffs in pso. In real life I practice martial artist, I've recieved second place in the regional sparring tournament, I know how deadly fists are, but I also know how deadly swords are because I train with both every day. However that is off the subject. In pso I'm sure you use armor and weapons, and thats what my analogy was going at, let me restate in more applicable terms....regular equipment can get you by but enhanced equipment will make it much easier.

Quo

Jul 14, 2004, 01:01 PM

Wow, a lot to write.

Maskim: There are some things that are obviously unintentional. I consider an untekked Lavis to be amoung these things. Evidence: ST fixed it in later versions of the game.

Teamwork can be very effective; I understand that. But team players are only good as a team. When a team Hunter gets seperated from his support Force, he loses his superficial strength and dies. When a team ranger gets thrown into melee he is overpowered and killed. When a team Force loses his human shields he gets surrounded and killed. The team is gone when one link breaks. What if, instead, all of your players were strong at all times. What if they all could operate well in the situations that would get team-playing versions of them killed?

The eastern Roman empire was destroyed by a bunch of barbarians. Team work helped a lot there didn't it.

Tareek: It was an analogy. This gives me an opportunity to clear up any confusion about my play style. I'm not saying no one can use S/D. A HUnewearl will most definately S/D herself. A FO may cast Deband on himself if he wants. If he melees (I don't), he may use all of the support techs. Being strong of yourself means you can do what you can do. This includes strong weapons, armor, a good mag, units, and support techs but only if you yourself can cast them. Fanboy said earlier that he used s-reds arms to S/D himself. That's fine. That fits right in with this playing style. Why? because he can do it whenever he wants and he doesn't have to rely on others.

Mixfortune: You were dancing the circle right along with me. If you back up your items, ok. I do see you as a cheater though. But I still respect you. If "I don't want to lose my progress" and "I'm not hurting anybody with it" are justifications enough for you, I guess thats fine. For you, not for me. I do not and will not back up my items. If I lose them, I won't be sore. You all said that you play the game for fun. If you had fun, it shouldn't be any great loss to lose your junk when you FSOD. It wouldn't be to me anyway. I don't measure the progress I've made by the Items I have obtained. I measure it by the fun I've gotten out of it. Playing online is not cheating because ST wants us to do it (thats how they get their ca$h). I don't see how coming in contact with a cheater makes one a cheater. Like the munkey from space said, cheating is not a disease to be passed about from one person to the next. It a preference, a choice. It is irksome nonetheless. I too believe this discussion is at a close.

Aredhel: Wow, your taking it to a whole new level aren't you? The rights and wrongs we see are invented by us. This is why there is no true right or true wrong. Because right and wrong is different in each persons mind, there cannot be any one right or wrong. Believing that there are limitations is a limitation. If you think you can't, you can't. It's that simple. That was Bruce Lee's mantra "No way as way. No limitation as limitation."

BladeofDarkness:

1. We do have different veiws on cheating, don't we? Enemy data resets when you go back to town. Sonic team wanted it to be this way. As long as play within the rules sonic team set down, however you manipulate them is still legit.

2,3,&4. I think I covered these in addresses to others.

strongmad89

Jul 14, 2004, 01:37 PM

On 2004-07-14 11:01, Quo wrote:

The eastern Roman empire was destroyed by a bunch of barbarians. Team work helped a lot there didn't it.

It was destroyed by waaaaaaay more than just barbarians. Internal corruption, weak leaders (and crazy ones, like Nero), loss of power, and the biggest problem. The empire was too damn big. The leaders could not control all of Rome. The corruption of the government and the people already had gone around and weakened the empire. Everyone was fighting among themselves. Carthage barged in at just the right time and burned it down. At just the right moment! Besides, every great empire went down sooner or later. Rome lasted as long as it did because of their teamwork. They went down because they stopped working together and because they had poor leaders, not because teamwork was ineffective.

Alright, sorry for the history lesson, just thought I'd clear things up. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Quo

Jul 14, 2004, 01:44 PM

On 2004-07-14 11:37, strongmad89 wrote:

On 2004-07-14 11:01, Quo wrote:

The eastern Roman empire was destroyed by a bunch of barbarians. Team work helped a lot there didn't it.

It was destroyed by waaaaaaay more than just barbarians. Internal corruption, weak leaders (and crazy ones, like Nero), loss of power, and the biggest problem. The empire was too damn big. The leaders could not control all of Rome. The corruption of the government and the people already had gone around and weakened the empire. Everyone was fighting among themselves. Carthage barged in at just the right time and burned it down. At just the right moment! Besides, every great empire went down sooner or later. Rome lasted as long as it did because of their teamwork. They went down because they stopped working together and because they had poor leaders, not because teamwork was ineffective.

Alright, sorry for the history lesson, just thought I'd clear things up. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

My point exactly. The empire ran on teamwork. When one member of the team collapsed, the empire collapsed. (Nero died more than 300 years before Rome did and there were many great leaders after him). But I agree. When the Emperors grew complacent the nation grew stagnant and all it took after that was a shove in the right direction to destroy the empire.

Aredhel

Jul 14, 2004, 02:29 PM

On 2004-07-14 11:01, Quo wrote:

Aredhel: Wow, your taking it to a whole new level aren't you? The rights and wrongs we see are invented by us. This is why there is no true right or true wrong. Because right and wrong is different in each persons mind, there cannot be any one right or wrong. Believing that there are limitations is a limitation. If you think you can't, you can't. It's that simple. That was Bruce Lee's mantra "No way as way. No limitation as limitation."

Good job repeating exactly what I said - I whole-heartedley agree! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

You're really fighting a war on many fronts, aren't you? Funny how this parallels with the Romans so well...hmmm...

Seeing as how this thread is spiraling far off-topic, and will probably be locked very soon, I figured I'd better get some words in http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Quo, it seems as though you have some conviction to uphold a form of Bushido in everything you do. I can only hope you have put much thought and research into this important life decision to follow in the footsteps of somebody ele's tao and didn't just decide to take it up because you saw it in a movie somewhere *cough*thelastsamurai*cough* http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

There's a popular movie some of you may have seen or heard mentioned on this thread somewhere (hmm...) called The Last Samurai. If you all remember, the main character adopted an esoteric Way of life that was threatened by progress. Who won in this battle of the wills (the one in the movie, not this thread http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)? Well, the fact that you are staring at a computer screen right now is proof that progress and effeciency prevailed over the grasping, clutching tendency of the past's relics and antiquated methods. The men with guns were not honored for what they did, but they prevailed anyways - they used what worked. Some may consider them cheaters for inventing guns, but those same are cheaters for inventing tools - are we cheating nature for evolving?

It is true that perception is our god, the subjection of reality overrules the gross opinion of the populace. In the singularity of the mind, infinity is possible and rampant, at that. So through our perception of the world around us, a moral code may rule all - dismising expectation and even definition by lack of individual subjection. If this is true, those samurai in the movie did not die because their spirit and memory live on through the actions they imprinted upon the past, present, and future. Thus, outer perception of the perceived individual defines who we are. In other words, we are defined by others. Since this is true, isn't working with others the only outlet of our existence? Or atleast, the consideration of such existence is subjective of not only our friends, but our enemies as well - in other words, anyone you might meet and talk with on PSOW message boards http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

I might be content regurgitating something like "no man is an island" and that teamwork rules over all, or some other saying that is conducive with the rest of my post. But I already admitted that the singular mind rules over all as well as the perceived 3-rd party consideration. Thus, everyone is God. Or maybe this is just an opiate in itself, hm? Find your own truth and you will be rewarded with boundless happiness... or not. It's your choice.

[ This Message was edited by: Aredhel on 2004-07-14 12:35 ]

BladeofDarkness

Jul 14, 2004, 03:01 PM

On 2004-07-14 11:01, Quo wrote:

Teamwork can be very effective; I understand that. But team players are only good as a team. When a team Hunter gets seperated from his support Force, he loses his superficial strength and dies. When a team ranger gets thrown into melee he is overpowered and killed. When a team Force loses his human shields he gets surrounded and killed. The team is gone when one link breaks. What if, instead, all of your players were strong at all times. What if they all could operate well in the situations that would get team-playing versions of them killed?

BladeofDarkness:

1. We do have different veiws on cheating, don't we? Enemy data resets when you go back to town. Sonic team wanted it to be this way. As long as play within the rules sonic team set down, however you manipulate them is still legit.

2,3,&4. I think I covered these in addresses to others.

What I believe all of us are saying is that we ARE strong by ourselves, we CAN fight without S/D but when there are members of a team who are not doing there best to play AS A TEAM then they are, pure and simple, asshats.

Also I don't consider any of the things you wrote to be proper responses to 3&4.

Quo

Jul 14, 2004, 03:12 PM

On 2004-07-14 12:29, Aredhel wrote:

Good job repeating exactly what I said - I whole-heartedley agree! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

You're really fighting a war on many fronts, aren't you? Funny how this parallels with the Romans so well...hmmm...

Seeing as how this thread is spiraling far off-topic, and will probably be locked very soon, I figured I'd better get some words in http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Quo, it seems as though you have some conviction to uphold a form of Bushido in everything you do. I can only hope you have put much thought and research into this important life decision to follow in the footsteps of somebody else's tao and didn't just decide to take it up because you saw it in a movie somewhere *cough*thelastsamurai*cough* http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

There's a popular movie some of you may have seen or heard mentioned on this thread somewhere (hmm...) called The Last Samurai. If you all remember, the main character adopted an esoteric Way of life that was threatened by progress. Who won in this battle of the wills (the one in the movie, not this thread http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)? Well, the fact that you are staring at a computer screen right now is proof that progress and effeciency prevailed over the grasping, clutching tendency of the past's relics and antiquated methods. The men with guns were not honored for what they did, but they prevailed anyways - they used what worked. Some may consider them cheaters for inventing guns, but those same are cheaters for inventing tools - are we cheating nature for evolving?

It is true that perception is our god, the subjection of reality overrules the gross opinion of the populace. In the singularity of the mind, infinity is possible and rampant, at that. So through our perception of the world around us, a moral code may rule all - dismising expectation and even definition by lack of individual subjection. If this is true, those samurai in the movie did not die because their spirit and memory live on through the actions they imprinted upon the past, present, and future. Thus, outer perception of the perceived individual defines who we are. In other words, we are defined by others. Since this is true, isn't working with others the only outlet of our existence? Or atleast, the consideration of such existence is subjective of not only our friends, but our enemies as well - in other words, anyone you might meet and talk with on PSOW message boards http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

I might be content regurgitating something like "no man is an island" and that teamwork rules over all, or some other saying that is conducive with the rest of my post. But I already admitted that the singular mind rules over all as well as the perceived 3-rd party consideration. Thus, everyone is God. Or maybe this is just an opiate in itself, hm? Find your own truth and you will be rewarded with boundless happiness... or not. It's your choice.

YES! SOMEONE WHO THINKS!

Lets see, where to start? Lets try bushido: the way of the warrior. Being a warrior, weilding a sword. It is only a means to an end. This is true of everything we do. A sword is a means to an end. This end is death. A sword can bring about nothing else. But the way of the sword brings about a clear mind and a firm body.

Progress. This is something I've thought about a lot. A lot, a lot. (I've never seen The Last Samurai so forgive me if I don't follow up with that example). Our society is always "progressing." But what is this progress we've made? This computer screen I'm staring at? Technology is what we have, it's what our society makes. Our society does not progress, not like it should. If it did we would not have poverty or homelessness or drugs or unbridled violence or robber barons or maybe even government. No, our society builds its technology. Imagine if someone grew up physically but not mentally. This is our society. We have all the technology we need, but we barely have the maturity to handle it. Unfortunately it is the habit of our society to continue making technological advancements. We think about now, we barely give any thought to the future. There can be only two outcomes from this. One: our maturity will increase exponentially to handle the things we have built, we will stop building and live in harmony with that amount of technology untill some outside force upsets the balance. Two: our technology will continue to grow far beyond our controll. Our society will colapse, our technology will be destroyed and we will revert back to the dark ages (or maybe a new enlightened age. Maybe we will have learned from our mistakes and live in peace with ourselves and our world).

Evolution: Are we evolving? I don't think so. Animals have teeth and claws and spikes and such as their defense mechanisms. You may have noticed that humans don't possess these. Intelegence is our defense mechanism. Intellegence has been defined as the ability to adapt to a new situation quickly. All of our growth, technological and social has been part of our defense mechanism. Isaac Newton said that if he had seen farther than others it was because he had stood on the shoulders of giants. This is intelegence not evolution. The nature of intelegence is to build on what others have learned. We're not evolving. We're protecting ourselves.

Peception: Do you truly believe we are defined by the perception of others? There is the Quo that is me, you could say that is the real Quo. Then there is the Quo in my mind. There is a Quo in your mind and a Quo in the mind of every person I have ever come in contact with. Each of these Quos are fake. The Quo in my mind is just as fake as the Quo in yours. The only real Quo is the Quo I am. Going a bit deeper There is a Quo in my mind that is my interpretaion of the Quo in yours. This Quo is even more distorted than the previous Quos. This is the Quo that you say difines me. This is the bullshit Quo that people think matters. Unhappy people try to make the self that is them manipulate the self in others minds so that the bullshit version looks better. There is no solid definition of me except the Quo that is me. You don't know it. I don't know it. No one knows it, but it's there. Perception is no God. Perception is a bohemoth. A demon. A complex net of lies that don't really matter.

Quo

Jul 14, 2004, 03:30 PM

On 2004-07-14 13:01, BladeofDarkness wrote:

On 2004-07-14 11:01, Quo wrote:

Teamwork can be very effective; I understand that. But team players are only good as a team. When a team Hunter gets seperated from his support Force, he loses his superficial strength and dies. When a team ranger gets thrown into melee he is overpowered and killed. When a team Force loses his human shields he gets surrounded and killed. The team is gone when one link breaks. What if, instead, all of your players were strong at all times. What if they all could operate well in the situations that would get team-playing versions of them killed?

BladeofDarkness:

1. We do have different veiws on cheating, don't we? Enemy data resets when you go back to town. Sonic team wanted it to be this way. As long as play within the rules sonic team set down, however you manipulate them is still legit.

2,3,&4. I think I covered these in addresses to others.

What I believe all of us are saying is that we ARE strong by ourselves, we CAN fight without S/D but when there are members of a team who are not doing there best to play AS A TEAM then they are, pure and simple, asshats.

Also I don't consider any of the things you wrote to be proper responses to 3&4.

OK. I'll lay it out again.

3. No one is running around in different directions. Everyone knows what he's doing. We all have a common goal in mind: kill the monsters. Its like playing offline but with more and stronger enemies. Not having a plan is a lot different than playing as an individual.

4. Look at the note to Tareek. If that's not answer enough, then you're not making any sense. YOU DO NOT NEED A FORCE CASTING SUPPORT TECHNIQUES TO HAVE GOOD ARMOR AND WEAPONS. You go find them yourself. I don't know how I can make this any more simple.

[ This Message was edited by: Quo on 2004-07-14 13:32 ]

Natron

Jul 14, 2004, 03:33 PM

[/quote]...Imagine if someone grew up physically but not mentally. This is our society...[quote]
Very well said,unfortunately, many people are exactly this.
Bushido(SP)- Unless I don't know this as well as I think I do, people who choose the path of a Bushido warrior are the same as samurai. There is really only one problem with this philosophy. A samaurai has intense honor AND LOYALTY. As far as I know,a Bushido warrior is the same. Loyalty is key, samaurai are loyal to their masters, and their friends. sometimes they use teamwork to finish their goals, sometimes they don't. But they are strong enough mentally and physically to work as a team and alone.
on Perception- To everyone else, a persons image appears as if they are being viewed through a foggy window, blurry and hazy. This "fog" is the unknown. What people don't know about us, they fill in, to make the picture more clear. Perception is not a god, but it is not a demon either. It is a way for people to make what they think about someone ok. False perceptions are a Crutch for the weak. Correct ones are like a sword for the strong.
I will say no more. Please don't begrudge me if I mangled a view or messed up the way of Bushido, my sources and information may be incomplete.

Quo

Jul 14, 2004, 03:46 PM

On 2004-07-14 13:33, Natron wrote:

...Imagine if someone grew up physically but not mentally. This is our society...
Very well said,unfortunately, many people are exactly this.

Almost everyone is like this. That is why our society is this way.

Bushido(SP)- Unless I don't know this as well as I think I do, people who choose the path of a Bushido warrior are the same as samurai. There is really only one problem with this philosophy. A samurai has intense honor AND LOYALTY. As far as I know,a Bushido warrior is the same. Loyalty is key, samaurai are loyal to their masters, and their friends. sometimes they use teamwork to finish their goals, sometimes they don't. But they are strong enough mentally and physically to work as a team and alone.

Bushido is actually a code of ethics entailing both being strong and treating others well and being a loyal retainer. I know of no better example of what I've been trying to say about teamwork here than the samurai. A samurai can work with a group or without. This is being stong of yourself. Samurai didn't need other samurai to make them strong but a group of samurai together was much stronger than only one. It has been said that a team is only as strong as the weakest player. A group of samurai were as strong as the combined total strength of every samurai in the group. That is being strong of yourself. Thank you Natron, for helping prove my point.

iamfanboy

Jul 14, 2004, 04:01 PM

Heh. Way of the samurai. Heh.

I still remember Samurai vs. Mongol:

Samurai rides forward into the battlefield. Challenges a Mongol to single combat. States his noble lineage, his warrior accomplishments, and his honour.

Entire Mongol army, after a good laugh, feathers him with a thousand arrows.

If that tsunami hadn't nailed the Mongol fleet, destroying four out of five ships, then Japanese history would have been changed forever.

Trust me. Teams are stronger than any individuals. Too bad you don't seem to realize it; I doubt you'll ever do well in cmode because of it.

And Challenge Mode is the most fun you can have without being naked. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Aredhel

Jul 14, 2004, 04:02 PM

On 2004-07-14 13:12, Quo wrote:

Perception is no God. Perception is a bohemoth. A demon. A complex net of lies that don't really matter.

That sounds exactly like a God to me. What better definition do you have? A giant, bearded white man atop of a cloud in a castle made of pure gold with a moat of chocolate? Or maybe just an exampliry being with an infinite amount of potential or ethics, or whatnot who controls everyone and everything with the mere power of his will? Both are pure fantasies. God is everything and God is nothing - he is a dream that seems so real to some but doesn't actually exist in the perceivable world. Anything otherwise is pure fantasy and doesn't exist... and does exist at the same time. Doesn't God suck? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

but it is useless talking about what God is and isn't - all that matters is the perception of him/her/it/(whothefuckcares?!) by the mind's eye. You define god by how you perceive it - so what seperates you and God? go ahead, name something you don't "know" because of perception... I dare you...

There's no winning against our true God -the perceivable (or perceiving) mind.

Aredhel

Jul 14, 2004, 04:04 PM

So what was the topic again?

Oh yeah - Lavis Cannon is definitely better than Musashis http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

EDIT: It's even better than Yamato http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Aredhel on 2004-07-14 14:05 ]

Quo

Jul 14, 2004, 04:24 PM

On 2004-07-14 14:02, Aredhel wrote:

On 2004-07-14 13:12, Quo wrote:

Perception is no God. Perception is a bohemoth. A demon. A complex net of lies that don't really matter.

That sounds exactly like a God to me. What better definition do you have? A giant, bearded white man atop of a cloud in a castle made of pure gold with a moat of chocolate? Or maybe just an exampliry being with an infinite amount of potential or ethics, or whatnot who controls everyone and everything with the mere power of his will? Both are pure fantasies. God is everything and God is nothing - he is a dream that seems so real to some but doesn't actually exist in the perceivable world. Anything otherwise is pure fantasy and doesn't exist... and does exist at the same time. Doesn't God suck? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

but it is useless talking about what God is and isn't - all that matters is the perception of him/her/it/(whothefuckcares?!) by the mind's eye. You define god by how you perceive it - so what seperates you and God? go ahead, name something you don't "know" because of perception... I dare you...

There's no winning against our true God -the perceivable (or perceiving) mind.

Perception is breakable. Perception is a manipulatable (<-- I don't think that's a word). Perception is flawed. Perception is beguilable. God is not. It doesn't matter how we percieve God. It doesn't matter how you percieve me. That doesn't change what is the real me. Nor do our perceptions change what is the real God. Unless you believe that God is an invention weak and feeble Man. But then, that's your perception. And it doesn't change the real God. It changes the God you percieve, which is, as I have stated, fake. What is God? *shrugs* I can't say. All I have is a perception. But there is a real definition of God just as there is a real definition of me and you. How do I know I am a seperate thing from God? What seperates me from you? Go ahead. Prove that we are not the same person.

BladeofDarkness

Jul 14, 2004, 04:57 PM

How do I know I am a seperate thing from God? What seperates me from you? Go ahead. Prove that we are not the same person.

Well proving someone is different from you is as easy as a dna test..proving you are separate from god however requires proof that God does not exist, since all beings are created by God, all beings are connected to God.

As for your response to my #4 question, you still just don't get what I'm saying. I have the best armor my hucast and fomar can use at their levels (Electro Frame, lvl127, Aura Field, lv158). HOWEVER, those armors are still RELATABLE to chain mail in the fact that chain mail can be made better by adding plated armor and an Aura Field can be better with deband. Not that you have to to survive, but it is smarter to go fully equipped then only with chain mail, IF you have the option to do so. If you still don't get what I'm saying then you're hopeless.

Also stop waving around Bushido/Way of the Samurai like you're some nobleman, true Samurai helped PROTECT people.

[ This Message was edited by: BladeofDarkness on 2004-07-14 15:01 ]

Rainbowlemon

Jul 14, 2004, 05:10 PM

On Topic - If I were you, I would search for a Demolition Comet. I can't be bothered looking in the item database, you surely can do that on your own, but it is a very effective weapon, and is only slightly worse than the Double cannon, but a LOT easier to find.

Off Topic- Firstly, I would like to ask why everyone seems to have this tendancy to talk in this philosophical manner, it's hell to read, and even harder to understand >.>

Secondly, I would like to state that 4 people working as a team are powerful. In the same respect, 4 people who are independantly powerful in different ways, that understand each others' strengths and weaknesses, are also powerful. However, a problem arises when you combine the two.

What sort of teamplayer would want a pair of independant people running around killing everything? Besides being annoying, it's just damn-right selfish.

On the other side of the coin, what independant player would want to be with a group of people that ignores them because they refuse to play "as a team"? It's an insult, a form of rejection, if you will.

Senseless mumbojumbo to fit in with the crowd: There is never a right or wrong; things are never as simple as true and false, there's always a deeper, more intricate set of views on circumstances, you just have to open your eyes to see it.

Quo

Jul 14, 2004, 05:17 PM

On 2004-07-14 14:57, BladeofDarkness wrote:

Well proving someone is different from you is as easy as a dna test..proving you are separate from god however requires proof that God does not exist, since all beings are created by God, all beings are connected to God.

It's well and good that you can prove that our bodies are different. But prove that our minds are different. That's what were talking about. Its also well and good to say that I am connected to God. But were talking about being the same as God.

As for your response to my #4 question, you still just don't get what I'm saying. I have the best armor my hucast and fomar can use at their levels (Electro Frame, lvl127, Aura Field, lv158). HOWEVER, those armors are still RELATABLE to chain mail in the fact that chain mail can be made better by adding plated armor and an Aura Field can be better with deband. Not that you have to to survive, but it is smarter to go fully equipped then only with chain mail, IF you have the option to do so. If you still don't get what I'm saying then you're hopeless.

Well then, we're back to where we were before. You have strong armor. True, deband does boost your DFP but, when you're used to having the boost, you fail when you don't. We're just talking in circles here.

Also stop waving around Bushido/Way of the Samurai like you're some nobleman, true Samurai helped PROTECT people.

I never said I was any nobleman. I said I follow the way of the warrior. There is a large difference. Samurai protected people because they were loyal to their lords. I don't see how that has to do with what we're talking about. We're talking about fighting effectively not being charitable.

Rainbowlemon

Jul 14, 2004, 05:23 PM

Well then, we're back to where we were before. You have strong armor. True, deband does boost your DFP but, when you're used to having the boost, you fail when you don't. We're just talking in circles here.

The flaw in this statement being, there is no 'don't'. In the same respect as you get used to the DFP boost, you get used to casting deband just before it wears off, meaning there is NEVER a time where you DONT have the boost.

Aredhel

Jul 14, 2004, 05:30 PM

On 2004-07-14 14:24, Quo wrote:

What seperates me from you? Go ahead. Prove that we are not the same person.

I like the way you think - very nicely put.

[freaky cult mode] Have you embraced the one-ness of all, yet? [/freaky cult mode] http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Outside of our perceivable selves lies our own God - which is, oddly enough, our own perception. Whatever qualms you have regarding this are irrelevent - what you believe to be true of God is, irrefutebly, the result of your individual perception, regardless of consensus between entities (people, books, slogans, etc...).

True, Quo considers itself a sort of Samurai - but this is independent of your consideration; atleast respect the fact that it considers itself to exist and you will be remiss of all the stupid hang-ups most people have with an indivuals perception of ones'-self.

And I find it necessary to wax philosphically because it often times (not always, mind you) keeps people who don't know what they're talking about from quoting my post and... "replying" to it...

*turns up nose*

I hate elitists only because I am one.

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Quo

Jul 14, 2004, 06:21 PM

On 2004-07-14 15:23, Antimony wrote:

Well then, we're back to where we were before. You have strong armor. True, deband does boost your DFP but, when you're used to having the boost, you fail when you don't. We're just talking in circles here.

The flaw in this statement being, there is no 'don't'. In the same respect as you get used to the DFP boost, you get used to casting deband just before it wears off, meaning there is NEVER a time where you DONT have the boost.

Unless you're an android.

Edit: or a HUmar.

[ This Message was edited by: Quo on 2004-07-14 16:21 ]

strongmad89

Jul 14, 2004, 07:22 PM

Many people don't need that S/D boost. You can very easily complete a level (even in ultimate) without it, IMO. You don't neccesarily fail once you lose the boost. If you have recovery items or Resta, then you can make it through the level, as long as it isn't a OHKO. If it is, then yeah they're screwed. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Maybe that's what you mean. In that case, I completly agree with you. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif But I think that the S/D boost was put in the game to make it easier on the person playing; in most cases it is not crucial to completing a level.

Quo

Jul 14, 2004, 08:25 PM

On 2004-07-14 15:30, Aredhel wrote:

[freaky cult mode] Have you embraced the one-ness of all, yet? [/freaky cult mode] http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I do hope this is sarcasm. If not, I'm running away.

Outside of our perceivable selves lies our own God - which is, oddly enough, our own perception. Whatever qualms you have regarding this are irrelevent - what you believe to be true of God is, irrefutebly, the result of your individual perception, regardless of consensus between entities (people, books, slogans, etc...).

Perceptions don't make themselves. There has to be something to base the perception off. Yes, my views of God are my perception. But it has to be based off something. If God does exist as a seperate entity, then my perception is based of the true, real God. If he doesn't exist, then my perception is based off an idea that has been floating around for quite some time.

True, Quo considers itself a sort of Samurai - but this is independent of your consideration; atleast respect the fact that it considers itself to exist and you will be remiss of all the stupid hang-ups most people have with an indivuals perception of ones'-self.

Was this directed at me? I hope not. It would be wierd to talk to me in the third person.

And I find it necessary to wax philosphically because it often times (not always, mind you) keeps people who don't know what they're talking about from quoting my post and... "replying" to it...

*turns up nose*

I hate elitists only because I am one.

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I philosophize because its good for my head.