Does it really matter if you are legit or illegit? [Archive]

Gjl

Jul 19, 2004, 04:29 AM

On 2004-07-18 18:59, Axel3792 wrote:
I mean, it's just a game, right? If your'e so into "OMFG... A DUPED ITEM!! NO!!!" then you should probably put the game down, and go get a life. It's a GAME! Games are meant to be played! Remember, that "World of PSO" exists on a platic disk, and some silicon chips on some frikkin' server. The reason I post this is because I've encountered so many people complaining about dupes and being legit and Lv.200 cmoders... who cares!? Remember... it's NOT REAL!

Well if you walk into legit games with your duped/hacked gear then you are bound to get a negative response because you are just ignoring peoples wishes. Different people find this game fun in different way and legit players find that dupes & hacks make an easy and almost mindless but fun game extremely boring and no fun at all. Therefore I don't like cheaters in my games because it makes the expereince not fun. I mean the guy is killing all the enemies while all I can do is sit back and watch - this isn't what I consider enjoyable.

"OMFG... A DUPED ITEM!! NO!!!"
Despite what I write here, I'm hardly frothing at the mouth, wishing all these dupers and hackers would burn in hell. It's hard to show emotions with text so it's easy to exaggerate. And I haven't seen anyone go all 'OMG OMG OMG' over it either.

Lvl. 200 Cmoders do it simply to piss peopel off. I can't find another reason why anybody would do it (and don't try to tell me it's 'fun'). Seriously if you want an Srank weapon get a duped one. The whole point of challenge mode is that it is a challenge. It's fun because it's so challenging, and even exciting due to the difficulty and the fact that you cant die without scapes. How the fuck is it fun just killing everything in 1 hit while not having to care about getting hurt? Plus people don't appreciate cmoding with a cheater because it ruins their experience by removing the challenge from the game.

And the whole 'it's only a game' and 'not real' arguments have been stated a million times, and this isn't news to anybody. And who are you to question how other people like to play? Only SEGA really have that right, and if you don't like the fact that some people prefer not to play with cheaters then why does that bother you?

Games are meant to be played!
Finally games are not meant to be merely played. They are played for fun. If I don't have fun with a dupe wielder in my game then why the fuck should I just 'accept' that? I think I have a right to get some fun out of this game as much as anybody here. I only get pissed off at dupers/hackers when they enter my games labelled LEGIT ONLY in big letters. Seriously this game needs to let the host kick users out of a room.

Do you think you're going to get a medal for writing 'politically correct' statements? Do you think you're the first to say this? This type of post has been made too many times in the past and its just boring to be honest.

Long post yes, but I type fast so it's easy to write too much (except when I'm using the software keyboard on PSO =/).

EDIT: You also posted the same fucking topic twice... How are you gonna expect any reasonable response now that you have two identical topics? Hopefully these will both be locked and we can forget about them entirely. This needs to be added to the 'common topics that don't need to be posted' list.

[ This Message was edited by: Gjl on 2004-07-19 02:32 ]

Superguppie

Jul 19, 2004, 06:51 AM

Oh, nice. double post in different groups. Well, I did put a response in the other topic. I'll quote it here for completeness:

Well, it's been a while since this came up. The only reason cheating matters is because it harms other players.
The game was made for free trade, which is ruined by people making the trade system useless. I once said "There is no word for legit in Word Select". In other words, I was never meant to have to ASK for legit stuff only. Now this isn't the worst. I can live with being careful, asking and explaining when trading. But it does take some of the fun out of it.
ST may decide not to realease certain items because of hacking. This would mean that I, as a legit player would be denied access to it because cheaters do have it. Very inconsiderate of them. Mind you, I heard this actualy happened before, so ST is capable of doing it!
ST may decide to ban items that have been duped too much. This would also ban anyone having a legit version of it. Some may say it won't happen. Well, it already has. Ofcourse this was the accidental activation of some pre-test code for it, but still.
ST already has made life harder for the users of hacks. If I play in a team where the team leader has PSO+ and there is a hacked MAG in the team, we will find almost no rares. I'm stil wondering whether I should like this measure or not. It keeps them from having to ban large groups of users, yet it will encourage them to do without the hack. It also makes the gap between legits and hack-users bigger. Not sure whether to call that a good or a bad thing.

So, yeah. It does matter to be legit. Apart from the satisfaction that many legits feel, it will show respect towards your fellow gamers for not messing up their game.

heyf00L

Jul 19, 2004, 11:22 AM

Yes it matters.

Corey

Jul 19, 2004, 02:29 PM

To me it only matters since
1. They do piss people off
2. It DOES technically violate the TOS

Tycho

Jul 19, 2004, 05:41 PM

how would it not matter whether or not you play legit? i mean, since you can do practically anything with cheating, what goals do you still have in the game? in most of the cases of goals, the cheating doesn't even really help. that is, unless you're trying to get the best c-mode record possible with cheats, enjoy fsod'ing / fsod-x'ing ppl in the lobbies, or if you'd want unlegit equipment to help you get 'legit' rares or levil 'legitemately'. you noted the quotes, i don't think you could call this fully legit. therefore, how could you be proud of such prestations?
but though i may not be able to see this, others may be able to. as long as people can respect each other ppl's style of playing, and will try not to bother anyone else (including wanting to convert people to either style of playing), there's not much wrong with either of them. we shouldn't forget there's a difference between people who don't play according to the rules ST made (aka cheaters), and people who like to ruin the fun for the rest (aka jerks).

Fojar

Jul 19, 2004, 07:16 PM

Honestly, you really shouldn't care what others think about how you decide to play the game. If someone gives you crap about using dupes, it's simple, don't play with them. It's not that difficult.

And about people only using the 200 Challenge Mode code just to piss people off, that's total crap. Ever think that people want their own S-Ranks with names that they chose? Of course not, they use dupes so obviously, they cannot enjoy things they made.

[ This Message was edited by: Fojar on 2004-07-19 17:18 ]

Mixfortune

Jul 19, 2004, 10:22 PM

On 2004-07-19 17:16, Fojar wrote:
Honestly, you really shouldn't care what others think about how you decide to play the game. If someone gives you crap about using dupes, it's simple, don't play with them. It's not that difficult.

And about people only using the 200 Challenge Mode code just to piss people off, that's total crap. Ever think that people want their own S-Ranks with names that they chose? Of course not, they use dupes so obviously, they cannot enjoy things they made.

[ This Message was edited by: Fojar on 2004-07-19 17:18 ]

Ok, I think you need to revise your statement a bit.
Your first line states as a base that we are talking about people using level 200 cheats in challenge mode just to piss people off or not. If it's the case that they are just to annoy others, then it's not about the S-Ranks.

The ability to name your weapon comes from working to beat Challenge Mode. Do you really think it's unfair that people who "use hacks in CMode" have been "deprived" of naming their weapons?

Maybe you meant to say something more like "as long as the level 200 CMode hack users play CMode amongst themselves, it's ok", then you might have some sort of plausible post, but to say that everyone who uses the level 200 CMode hack is justified because all they want are S-Rank weapons, so we shouldn't question them is a big piece of bull. There are those who use the hack to annoy others

Ever think that people want their own S-Ranks with names that they chose?

Then they can play CMode themselves, and hack it up in their own groups. You said yourself that people should play in similar groups. And "wanting to name their own S-Ranks" makes it seem like they should get sympathy. "Oh no... all they ever wanted was their own S-Rank... but they can't do it... so let's feel sorry for them..."

Uh huh...

[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2004-07-19 20:24 ]

Corey

Jul 20, 2004, 12:18 AM

They can do what they want, simply because there isn't anything there to stop them...

Fojar

Jul 20, 2004, 01:04 AM

On 2004-07-19 20:22, Mixfortune wrote:

On 2004-07-19 17:16, Fojar wrote:
Honestly, you really shouldn't care what others think about how you decide to play the game. If someone gives you crap about using dupes, it's simple, don't play with them. It's not that difficult.

And about people only using the 200 Challenge Mode code just to piss people off, that's total crap. Ever think that people want their own S-Ranks with names that they chose? Of course not, they use dupes so obviously, they cannot enjoy things they made.

[ This Message was edited by: Fojar on 2004-07-19 17:18 ]

Ok, I think you need to revise your statement a bit.
Your first line states as a base that we are talking about people using level 200 cheats in challenge mode just to piss people off or not. If it's the case that they are just to annoy others, then it's not about the S-Ranks.

The ability to name your weapon comes from working to beat Challenge Mode. Do you really think it's unfair that people who "use hacks in CMode" have been "deprived" of naming their weapons?

Maybe you meant to say something more like "as long as the level 200 CMode hack users play CMode amongst themselves, it's ok", then you might have some sort of plausible post, but to say that everyone who uses the level 200 CMode hack is justified because all they want are S-Rank weapons, so we shouldn't question them is a big piece of bull. There are those who use the hack to annoy others

Ever think that people want their own S-Ranks with names that they chose?

Then they can play CMode themselves, and hack it up in their own groups. You said yourself that people should play in similar groups. And "wanting to name their own S-Ranks" makes it seem like they should get sympathy. "Oh no... all they ever wanted was their own S-Rank... but they can't do it... so let's feel sorry for them..."

Uh huh...

[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2004-07-19 20:24 ]

Did you read what I said at all?

I was commenting on someone who stated that people who use the Level 200 code in Challenge Mode are just using the code to piss people off, I was saying that was bullshit.

On 2004-07-19 20:22, Mixfortune wrote:
You said yourself that people should play in similar groups.
Where did I write that?

Jesus.

[ This Message was edited by: Fojar on 2004-07-19 23:06 ]

Gjl

Jul 20, 2004, 04:23 AM

I was commenting on someone who stated that people who use the Level 200 code in Challenge Mode are just using the code to piss people off, I was saying that was bullshit.

Oh, and you know that for a fact do you? Of course you've interviewed every lvl 200 CModer and they've told you all they want is a personalised weapon.

Actually I think THAT is utter bullshit because cheaters generally don't care about bragging rights, personalisation and such - otherwise they would have played legit and would have been in a position to do so.

Some do it to piss others off, some may want to genuinely get an S-Rank (which I doubt since hacked TJ Swords etc. fit the bill well enough) but in the end it does annoy the other legit cmoders regardless of the intentions.

Cheaters use their hacks to get the best weapons with the highest hacked %s possible because they want to 'PwNz0r' everything. I doubt they would give a damn about the ugly S-Rank weapons when there are far more powerful and cooler looking weapons. Do you honestly think these people give a fuck about a little name on a weapon?

Oh and if they REALLY wanted to get an S-Rank they wouldn't waltz into public legit games filled with other players. They'd play with fellow hackers if they had any consideration.

[ This Message was edited by: Gjl on 2004-07-20 02:25 ]

Fojar

Jul 20, 2004, 07:40 AM

On 2004-07-20 02:23, Gjl wrote:
Oh, and you know that for a fact do you? Of course you've interviewed every lvl 200 CModer and they've told you all they want is a personalised weapon.

Actually I think THAT is utter bullshit because cheaters generally don't care about bragging rights, personalisation and such - otherwise they would have played legit and would have been in a position to do so.

Some do it to piss others off, some may want to genuinely get an S-Rank (which I doubt since hacked TJ Swords etc. fit the bill well enough) but in the end it does annoy the other legit cmoders regardless of the intentions.

Cheaters use their hacks to get the best weapons with the highest hacked %s possible because they want to 'PwNz0r' everything. I doubt they would give a damn about the ugly S-Rank weapons when there are far more powerful and cooler looking weapons. Do you honestly think these people give a fuck about a little name on a weapon?

Oh and if they REALLY wanted to get an S-Rank they wouldn't waltz into public legit games filled with other players. They'd play with fellow hackers if they had any consideration.

[ This Message was edited by: Gjl on 2004-07-20 02:25 ]

That's funny that you accuse me of speaking for unlegit players while you made a post about it before I did. But whatever.

Of course cheaters care about bragging rights, why else would they battle, or collect S-RANKS? Oh right, to show off. I'm trying to figure out what you're trying to prove, they...waste their time putting in codes for level 200...search out a game with only legit people on the exact same challenge mode stage they're on, make sure NOT to tell anyone they're using the level 200 code, and then...work towards getting an S-RANKed weapon. Those bastards!

And do you honestly think that all legit players just play legit to show off to all their other legit friends? I'm legit, do you see me making a topic every time I pipe for some stupid rare? Of course not.

Christ.

[ This Message was edited by: Fojar on 2004-07-20 05:48 ]

DOG21313

Jul 20, 2004, 08:55 AM

On 2004-07-20 05:40, Fojar wrote:
Of course cheaters care about bragging rights, why else would they battle, or collect S-RANKS? Oh right, to show off. I'm trying to figure out what you're trying to prove, they...waste their time putting in codes for level 200...search out a game with only legit people on the exact same challenge mode stage they're on, make sure NOT to tell anyone they're using the level 200 code, and then...work towards getting an S-RANKed weapon. Those bastards!

The point is, if they even DO want their own frickin S-Rank, why dont they find a game where people wont get pissed at them for using the lv200 code? Someone joined my game in E1Cmode and used it without telling me, I quit. I SHOULDNT have to be the one to do that, I am the one who is playing the game how it was meant to be played.

Also, some people play Cmode for challenge, when someone with the Lv200 code joins, the challenge is taken away. Really, if they want to get their own srank, why not ask one of their friends to help them so they dont bother the LEGIT players?

Fojar

Jul 20, 2004, 09:23 AM

If you don't want to deal with cheaters, you should probably go to Alycone6. They're better at Challenge Mode anyway.

Just saying.

Ketchup345

Jul 20, 2004, 09:47 AM

On 2004-07-20 07:23, Fojar wrote:
If you don't want to deal with cheaters, you should probably go to Alycone6. They're better at Challenge Mode anyway.

Just saying.

Cheaters do try to use the Level 200 cheat on Alcyone 6-1, (this was from personal experiance; I got lucky and he asked before the level started if I wanted him to leave).

And the players at Alcyone 6-1 aren't all great (there are JP players who aren't that great at C-Mode).

I believe that cheating isn't all bad. Some forms of it are beneficial (back-ups), and some malevolent (duping for giving away/trading).

When you start duping for trading and giving away, you basically ruin the economy. I would love an online game where there is a good trading community, not infected with dupes.

Just keep the cheating to yourself. Once you staqrt harming others with your cheating, you are "over the line".

[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-07-20 08:22 ]

Superguppie

Jul 20, 2004, 10:11 AM

It may be possible to evade CMode cheating for the most part. I rarely go to Alcyone 6 and still have legit CMode runs. (Actualy, about 3 hours EVERY day this week http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif )
However, that doesn't go for other cheats. And that's where it matters. As I said before. If a cheater only ruins his/her own fun, I couldn't care less. It's where the cheating hurts other players that it matters. And despite what some cheaters may say, I still feel hurt by some of their ways. See my earlier post on that.

As Ketchup345 says, not all Japanese on Alcyone 6 are CMode experts. Some are newbies looking for help, just like newby foreigners. And some of the expert foreigners go there to find other experts. Also I have found that not all Japanese people there are as nice and helpful as is always said. I can remember hanging around there for about an hour greeting everyone nicely and politely, using word select. Not even a single Japanese player even bothered responding. I ended up playing with 2 US players and another EU player that had wandered in. Like I need to go all the way to a laggy (distance-lag mostly) Japanese server for that!

Ness

Jul 20, 2004, 04:13 PM

Just shut the fuck up and play how you want!

darthsaber9x9

Jul 20, 2004, 04:52 PM

On 2004-07-20 14:13, Ness wrote:
Just shut the fuck up and play how you want!

not when they interfere with my game!
why don't you shut the fuck up instead of telling everyone to do the same all the damm time?

Ness

Jul 20, 2004, 06:30 PM

On 2004-07-20 14:52, darthsaber9x9 wrote:

On 2004-07-20 14:13, Ness wrote:
Just shut the fuck up and play how you want!

not when they interfere with my game!
why don't you shut the fuck up instead of telling everyone to do the same all the damm time?

Because it doesn't mess your game, unless you are tlaking about PKing and FSODing. Also, when I say what I say, I speak for a whole lot of people and not just myself.

401K

Jul 20, 2004, 06:41 PM

That is completely true people finding the absolute need to FSOD the rest of us need to be shot!! n.n

[ This Message was edited by: 401K on 2004-07-20 16:43 ]

trypticon

Jul 20, 2004, 07:06 PM

On 2004-07-20 16:30, Ness wrote:

Because it doesn't mess your game, unless you are tlaking about PKing and FSODing. Also, when I say what I say, I speak for a whole lot of people and not just myself.

He's right in that statement. Jesus people, if you're so stubborn that you are not going to believe or trust, or so much as enjoy the company of anybody else any of the time on something so small and insignificant as an online video game, try PLAYING WITH YOURSELF IN A ROOM WITH A LOCKED DOOR. It would save the few people who are still online from having to read your crap. And the inuendo was purposely implied.

gream-green

Jul 20, 2004, 07:20 PM

On 2004-07-20 17:06, trypticon wrote:

On 2004-07-20 16:30, Ness wrote:

Because it doesn't mess your game, unless you are tlaking about PKing and FSODing. Also, when I say what I say, I speak for a whole lot of people and not just myself.

He's right in that statement. Jesus people, if you're so stubborn that you are not going to believe or trust, or so much as enjoy the company of anybody else any of the time on something so small and insignificant as an online video game, try PLAYING WITH YOURSELF IN A ROOM WITH A LOCKED DOOR. It would save the few people who are still online from having to read your crap. And the inuendo was purposely implied.

No he is not right! What are you having trouble understanding? It's obvious when somebody is cheating, nobody is debating the significance of said video game besides you. Thish makes your statements that much more insane, why would you take the time to cheat at something you have deemed so inconsequential? I personally am not that stubborn I just have no desire to play with a cheater like you. It is not fun to play with cheaters it defeats the point of the game. In fact an FSOD is much less intrusive than playing with ignorant cheaters for even four or five minutes. Go beg somebody for 300% weapons somewhere else, its just annoying.

Ness

Jul 20, 2004, 07:44 PM

On 2004-07-20 17:20, gream-green wrote:
No he is not right! What are you having trouble understanding? It's obvious when somebody is cheating, nobody is debating the significance of said video game besides you. Thish makes your statements that much more insane, why would you take the time to cheat at something you have deemed so inconsequential? I personally am not that stubborn I just have no desire to play with a cheater like you. It is not fun to play with cheaters it defeats the point of the game. In fact an FSOD is much less intrusive than playing with ignorant cheaters for even four or five minutes. Go beg somebody for 300% weapons somewhere else, its just annoying.

The point he was agreeing with with my initial "just shut the fuck up and play how you want" statement. I could honestly care less about who I play with. My only requirements are that they don't act like an asshole and they don't exp hog.

Also playing with a cheater does not affect your legitimacy. I could go into a game with dupers and hackers and come out of that game not a single bit less leit than I was going in. Why? because I didn't let it affect me. I didn't pick up the items they dropped or accept any of the rares the offered.

darthsaber9x9

Jul 20, 2004, 07:48 PM

On 2004-07-20 16:30, Ness wrote:

Because it doesn't mess your game, unless you are tlaking about PKing and FSODing. Also, when I say what I say, I speak for a whole lot of people and not just myself.

oh but it does.

trade system: screwed economy blah blah blah, we know how this issue goes. not to mention trade stealing...

also, cheaters entering my game, legit only or not and then refusing to leave or whatever.

in both these examples, i have to alter MY actions to compensate for the cheaters

thats affecting my game in my eyes.

and you can say "oh dont let it affect you" well sorry but i want a decent game

note: cheaters who enter my game but play legit when asked ill happily adventure with

Ness

Jul 20, 2004, 07:54 PM

On 2004-07-20 17:48, darthsaber9x9 wrote:

oh but it does.

trade system: screwed economy blah blah blah, we know how this issue goes. not to mention trade stealing...

It's the same BS spewed over and over again. Logcially speaking, the economy isn't ruioned if you are trading with other legits.

also, cheaters entering my game, legit only or not and then refusing to leave or whatever.

in both these examples, i have to alter MY actions to compensate for the cheaters

If they don't want to leave then let them stay. Just don't achknowledge them. Also, someone refusing to leave your game can happen with any kind of player.

darthsaber9x9

Jul 20, 2004, 08:04 PM

On 2004-07-20 17:54, Ness wrote:

On 2004-07-20 17:48, darthsaber9x9 wrote:

oh but it does.

trade system: screwed economy blah blah blah, we know how this issue goes. not to mention trade stealing...

It's the same BS spewed over and over again. Logcially speaking, the economy isn't ruioned if you are trading with other legits.

hmm i see your point and i do have a comemnt to make in respose but i cant think of the wording right now. ill try in the morning >_>

also, cheaters entering my game, legit only or not and then refusing to leave or whatever.

in both these examples, i have to alter MY actions to compensate for the cheaters

If they don't want to leave then let them stay. Just don't achknowledge them. Also, someone refusing to leave your game can happen with any kind of player.

and if I leave them there, they exp steal most likely. admittedly this could happen with legits. however its far more likely to happen with cheaters

and ive heard of random cheaters entering the game and then FSOD'ing. which is pretty bad if you ask me ( although you did cover FSOD in one of your other posts ill admit)

and ive got more to add but im too tired to think of it. ill add it in the morning...

ForceOfBrokenGlass

Jul 20, 2004, 09:13 PM

FSODers are the only real problem in PSO, anybody else who cheats or does anything in the game you dislike can be easily avoided, it's not that hard. Use your heads people.

Dhylec

Jul 20, 2004, 09:57 PM

ok, keep it nice & cool people.. you don't want the lock to come too soon now

this legit/illegit topic is the kinda things that never gonna go away
why get all uptight & bothered with something that can't be helped?
sit back & play the game..

if you don't like the people you play with?
leave!
yes, leave the goddamn game! is it so hard?
make a new one & invite those you want/can to join ya.. & lock it if you want

401K

Jul 20, 2004, 09:58 PM

once again, yes this is completely right FSODers and i am probly the only one but i am sick of those friggin EXP hogs they ruin the game the hogs not quite as much as the FSODers but they both are annoying....

Mixfortune

Jul 20, 2004, 10:16 PM

On 2004-07-19 23:04, Fojar wrote:

Did you read what I said at all?

I was commenting on someone who stated that people who use the Level 200 code in Challenge Mode are just using the code to piss people off, I was saying that was bullshit.

On 2004-07-19 20:22, Mixfortune wrote:
You said yourself that people should play in similar groups.
Where did I write that?

Jesus.

[ This Message was edited by: Fojar on 2004-07-19 23:06 ]

Actually, I think I started quoting the wrong person.
Either way, there are those who use the level hack in CMode just to annoy, and those who use it just to get a weapon with their own names.

But, if I understood you correctly this time, you are saying that those who use the level hack in CMode are doing it because they just want a weapon that they can name themselves. Is Challenge Mode really so hard that they really need to? And, from how the post was structured, it made it sound like they should be given sympathy, and are even justified in level hacking... which is completely different from a simple "don't play with them if you don't like what they do".

"Jesus"

[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2004-07-20 20:17 ]

Gjl

Jul 21, 2004, 12:17 AM

On 2004-07-20 20:16, Mixfortune wrote:

On 2004-07-19 23:04, Fojar wrote:

Did you read what I said at all?

I was commenting on someone who stated that people who use the Level 200 code in Challenge Mode are just using the code to piss people off, I was saying that was bullshit.

On 2004-07-19 20:22, Mixfortune wrote:
You said yourself that people should play in similar groups.
Where did I write that?

Jesus.

[ This Message was edited by: Fojar on 2004-07-19 23:06 ]

Actually, I think I started quoting the wrong person.
Either way, there are those who use the level hack in CMode just to annoy, and those who use it just to get a weapon with their own names.

But, if I understood you correctly this time, you are saying that those who use the level hack in CMode are doing it because they just want a weapon that they can name themselves. Is Challenge Mode really so hard that they really need to? And, from how the post was structured, it made it sound like they should be given sympathy, and are even justified in level hacking... which is completely different from a simple "don't play with them if you don't like what they do".

"Jesus"

[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2004-07-20 20:17 ]

It's also funny how they're playing CMode with their hacks just for the sake of it to get their little weapon, rather than enjoying challenge mode for what it is...a fun and challenging cooperative experience. It's important not to forget that it IS a game played for FUN. The same applies for CMode. It's not meant to be played for the sake of playing, it's meant to be something fun to do outside of the main game mode. If you are playing just to earn weapons etc. then really you should consider what you are doing. Are you really having fun?

Superguppie

Jul 21, 2004, 06:07 AM

I'm sorry to say Ness is getting on my nerves here. Saying cheating does not affect the game is bullshit. Having to look for honest legit traders, having to explain regularly and having to put up with people that just don't want to understand is a total pain that DOES take a bit of fun out of the game. As I said before, I've learned to live with it. But to say this is 'no effect', that IS bullshit!
Also, there are other effects, I named before (quite a few times in the past) to which I have yet to see a single response. (Well, actualy there was one that was responded to, and I dropped it, as I got convinced it wasn't a cheat-effect.) So as far as I am concerned, cheating (and especialy hacking) has serious consequences for me as a nice legit player. So next time you say "play how you want", just remember I would like nothing better than to do that. But those inconsiderate cheaters make it impossible for me.

On a side-note: EXP hogging is NOT cheating. Anyone with some serious weapons/techs can do it. Whoever deliberately does it is an asshole, legit or not. It's a pain, but I don't think it has room in a discussion like this.
Other annyoing misbehavior, like forcing FSOD, I also don't consider cheating, but a serious nuisance. These also have no place in the 'legit/cheat' discussion.

Ness

Jul 21, 2004, 08:36 AM

On 2004-07-21 04:07, Superguppie wrote:
I'm sorry to say Ness is getting on my nerves here. Saying cheating does not affect the game is bullshit. Having to look for honest legit traders, having to explain regularly and having to put up with people that just don't want to understand is a total pain that DOES take a bit of fun out of the game. As I said before, I've learned to live with it. But to say this is 'no effect', that IS bullshit!

You have to explain your rares to people regardless of whether or not cheaters are present.

Also, there are other effects, I named before (quite a few times in the past) to which I have yet to see a single response. (Well, actualy there was one that was responded to, and I dropped it, as I got convinced it wasn't a cheat-effect.) So as far as I am concerned, cheating (and especialy hacking) has serious consequences for me as a nice legit player.

I think you presented me those poijnts before and i countered them with legitimate responses.

So next time you say "play how you want", just remember I would like nothing better than to do that. But those inconsiderate cheaters make it impossible for me.

I've met all kinds of people during my time playing PSO and no one can prevent you from palying how you want. If someone (cheater or legit) joins my game, I just just keep havinbg fun and ignore them. Or I leave. You guys make it sound so hard to leave a game and create another one.

On a side-note: EXP hogging is NOT cheating. Anyone with some serious weapons/techs can do it. Whoever deliberately does it is an asshole, legit or not. It's a pain, but I don't think it has room in a discussion like this.

No one said it was. I was jsut stating what kind of people annoyed me.

Ketchup345

Jul 21, 2004, 09:09 AM

You do not always have to explain your rares, unless they are the ultra hard to find ones. Most of the rares questioned about their origin are items that can't be found legitimately, or are near impossible to find legitimately.

Trading between legits is affected by the "malicous" type of duping. Legits may not know when a "sour" item gets into their group.

Some people find fun in playing with people who are completely legit. They do not like playing in games where anyone uses any hacked/duped items. I would like to point out that you can't always leave a game easily, some quests prevent you from going back to Pioneer 2 (such as C-Mode, and RT).

EXP hogging is anoying but under normal conditions is legitimate. Using dupes/hacks/codes/tricks to do this is even more annoying (such as 14 Dark Flow with the Charge Mechgun animation and special due to multi-equipping).

[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-07-21 08:23 ]

darthsaber9x9

Jul 21, 2004, 09:36 AM

Ness, if i have to leave a game, im being affected correct? if so then you cant not keep saying that cheating doesn't affect us!

but for the actions of cheaters I wouldnt have to leave my game.

i admit that its not hard but you cant keep saying it has no effect

agree?

Superguppie

Jul 21, 2004, 10:09 AM

On 2004-07-21 06:36, Ness wrote:
You have to explain your rares to people regardless of whether or not cheaters are present.

I wasn't talking about explaining my rares, although that too is sometimes a hassle. I was talking about the time I had to say three times "I am legit", then explain what that is, and then get obvious duped hacks offered. I don't trade much lately, but only last night we had some CAPS NOOB walk in, that both me and one of my teammates had to tell over and over we were legit. The moron kept offering us SRanks and the like, and we weren't even trading!
Now I can laugh about that guy from last night, but when seriously looking for a trade, it is true horror to be busy explaining and arguing more than actualy trading. Once more: I've learned to live with it, but it IS a negative effect.

I think you presented me those poijnts before and i countered them with legitimate responses.

I'll have to look that up then. I guess your counters didn't make much of an impression on me, as I don't remember any...

I've met all kinds of people during my time playing PSO and no one can prevent you from palying how you want. If someone (cheater or legit) joins my game, I just just keep havinbg fun and ignore them. Or I leave. You guys make it sound so hard to leave a game and create another one.

Like leaving a team and making another, and hiding from those people is a normal way of doing things. I shouldn't have to go out of my way to play the way I want. Actualy, going out of my way is not the way I want to play. I like meeting new people, and have no problem with playing with strangers. That's how I got to know the people I regularly play with now. I would have to stop doing something I like to get something else I like. Despite the fact that the game was designed to have both at the same time. Another negative effect on me...

No one said it was. I was jsut stating what kind of people annoyed me.

I know, but some others did seem to pick up EXP hogging as a negative effect, in a discussion that was about cheating. Since it isn't cheating, I noticed it shouldn't be in it.

Ness

Jul 21, 2004, 10:27 AM

On 2004-07-21 08:09, Superguppie wrote:
I wasn't talking about explaining my rares, although that too is sometimes a hassle. I was talking about the time I had to say three times "I am legit", then explain what that is, and then get obvious duped hacks offered. I don't trade much lately, but only last night we had some CAPS NOOB walk in, that both me and one of my teammates had to tell over and over we were legit. The moron kept offering us SRanks and the like, and we weren't even trading!
Now I can laugh about that guy from last night, but when seriously looking for a trade, it is true horror to be busy explaining and arguing more than actualy trading. Once more: I've learned to live with it, but it IS a negative effect.

Just simply tell that you you don't want their rares or that you already have them. There is no need for you to expalin your legitimacy. You're making it harder than it actually is.

I'll have to look that up then. I guess your counters didn't make much of an impression on me, as I don't remember any...

When people have their mind set on something, it's pretty hard to change it.

Like leaving a team and making another, and hiding from those people is a normal way of doing things. I shouldn't have to go out of my way to play the way I want. Actualy, going out of my way is not the way I want to play. I like meeting new people, and have no problem with playing with strangers. That's how I got to know the people I regularly play with now. I would have to stop doing something I like to get something else I like. Despite the fact that the game was designed to have both at the same time. Another negative effect on me...

I never sia dthat you had to hide from them. I can still play legitly in a game full of cheaters. I guess I'm one of the few.

@Delsaber

We are tlaking about a different kind of effect. When i say it doesn't affect you, I'm saying that someone else's cheating doesn't affect your legitimacy. Like i said before, you don't have to leave the game.

darthsaber9x9

Jul 21, 2004, 10:34 AM

On 2004-07-21 08:27, Ness wrote:

@DelDarthsaber

We are tlaking about a different kind of effect. When i say it doesn't affect you, I'm saying that someone else's cheating doesn't affect your legitimacy. Like i said before, you don't have to leave the game.

oh. I know what THEY do doesn't affect my legitimacy. but the point I( and superguppie) were trying to get across is that we have to take actions that we would not otherwise do because of cheaters.

do you admit cheating has an effect on my games in that respect?

Ness

Jul 21, 2004, 10:57 AM

On 2004-07-21 08:34, darthsaber9x9 wrote:

oh. I know what THEY do doesn't affect my legitimacy. but the point I( and superguppie) were trying to get across is that we have to take actions that we would not otherwise do because of cheaters.

do you admit cheating has an effect on my games in that respect?

In some respcets yes, but like I said you don't have to have to take those actions.

Jasam

Jul 21, 2004, 11:23 AM

I can't belive these topics still exist.... (no wait yes I can, as long as theres a way to cheat, theres gonna be idiots who do it to annoy people)(no offence to most) I used to play this game all the time, legitly, and eventully I found my self in legit rooms more often than not just to be able to kill something, because of the insane amounts of people cheating to get huge damige wepons.... lets just put it this way, eventuly, I ended up with a decent legit and duper player when a BKB/hacked MAG weilding boss stealing annoyin*****er came in. as soon as we got to a room in the ruins which required a 2 man switch, we just stood there for an hour till they left.

This is just a typical experence of how cheaters negitivly effect games.

Tycho

Jul 21, 2004, 01:03 PM

When people have their mind set on something, it's pretty hard to change it.

that doesn't mean you don't have to bother giving reasonable arguments. sheesh. do you actually believe what you're trying to say or are you just here to annoy ppl?

btw. you knew the guy wasn't called delsaber.

darthsaber9x9

Jul 21, 2004, 05:06 PM

On 2004-07-21 08:57, Ness wrote:

On 2004-07-21 08:34, darthsaber9x9 wrote:

oh. I know what THEY do doesn't affect my legitimacy. but the point I( and superguppie) were trying to get across is that we have to take actions that we would not otherwise do because of cheaters.

do you admit cheating has an effect on my games in that respect?

In some respcets yes, but like I said you don't have to have to take those actions.

there is no buts about it. they force me to take actions, so they are interefering with my game (assuming i am to continue as i would have wished to prior to interference). period.

[ This Message was edited by: darthsaber9x9 on 2004-07-21 15:09 ]

Tycho

Jul 21, 2004, 10:51 PM

if cheaters...

- kill vol opt 2.0 before i have a chance to hit it

- warp to the boss chamber with cheats so the ttf is worthless

- force ppl to fsod

- make ST introduce doublesave so that legits (and only legits, cheaters lose practically nothing) will be hurt more by FSOD-X

- make ST *not* activate certain boss drops

how the hell do you figure this would NOT effect our gameplay, or even ruin it for that matter?

if all these problems in pso were to be solved, i'd say it's the best game / chat program, evar.

Superguppie

Jul 22, 2004, 06:33 AM

On 2004-07-21 08:27, Ness wrote:
Just simply tell that you you don't want their rares or that you already have them. There is no need for you to expalin your legitimacy. You're making it harder than it actually is.

Uhh, first of, when someone I don't know wants to trade I respond "Legit stuff only, please". The fact that it has to be said is a negative effect, but I can live with it. (I have excepted the reality of the existence of cheating) In quite a few cases I have to explain what it means. And nice guy as I am I do. The alternative would be to use a few curses on the poor newbies head and leave. As I said, I'm a nice guy, so I don't do that.
Then, when done explaining the other person often tries to trade, offering things that are such obvious hacks/dupes it makes me wanna fart really loudly on his/her head.
If that happens 5 times to get 1 nice and honest trade, that's when you start to really hate cheaters. All of the effort would not be necessary if cheating was something just 'not done'.

I'll have to look that up then. I guess your counters didn't make much of an impression on me, as I don't remember any...

When people have their mind set on something, it's pretty hard to change it.

Oh, you calling me a shortsighted conservative? Look at some old topics here. I changed my mind on several subjects after discussions here. The fact that I haven't changed my mind on this particular point must mean the arguments you used weren't that impressive.

I never sia dthat you had to hide from them. I can still play legitly in a game full of cheaters. I guess I'm one of the few.

Much of the negative effects I object to are harder to hide from. I don't really have a problem with playin together with someone that uses cheats, as long as he/she behaves. It's the indirect effects that hurt and make object to the whole business of cheating.

On 2004-07-21 20:51, Tycho wrote:
- make ST introduce doublesave so that legits (and only legits, cheaters lose practically nothing) will be hurt more by FSOD-X

Actualy, that's one of the points on which I did change my mind. From a comment of someone who left shortly before it was installed, and returned after that, I understand that before the double save, you would lose EVERYTHING you were carrying at FSOD. With the double save you only lose what you don't have equiped. Apparently, the second save was put in to save a bit, to alleviate the pain of FSOD. In PSO+ that save is the standard one, so the double save isn't necessary anymore. That it enhances the chances of (still rare) FSOD-X probably is a lot less painful than losing all at each and every FSOD.

Ness

Jul 22, 2004, 07:46 AM

On 2004-07-21 15:06, darthsaber9x9 wrote:

On 2004-07-21 08:57, Ness wrote:

On 2004-07-21 08:34, darthsaber9x9 wrote:

oh. I know what THEY do doesn't affect my legitimacy. but the point I( and superguppie) were trying to get across is that we have to take actions that we would not otherwise do because of cheaters.

do you admit cheating has an effect on my games in that respect?

In some respcets yes, but like I said you don't have to have to take those actions.

there is no buts about it. they force me to take actions, so they are interefering with my game (assuming i am to continue as i would have wished to prior to interference). period.

[ This Message was edited by: darthsaber9x9 on 2004-07-21 15:09 ]

No one forces you to do anything.

DOG21313

Jul 22, 2004, 08:58 AM

On 2004-07-22 05:46, Ness wrote:
No one forces you to do anything.

True, but I want to be able to stay legit, so I have to do things that I would not normally feel the need to do. If cheating did not exist, I WOULD NOT have to ask if someones items were legit. I wouldnt have to make games titled "Legits Only" I wouldnt feel the need to run over to a deserted block and play with my friends in locked games.

It does affect us. If cheating were not in this game, I would not have to do certain things, meaning it does affect how I play.

Gjl

Jul 22, 2004, 09:38 AM

I really wish Broomop and co. would do something useful for once and release a code that lets you kick people back to the lobby. Then we wouldn't have to bother telling cheaters that walk into legit only games to take their cheats elsewhere.

And greetings SuperGuppie http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif.

Superguppie

Jul 22, 2004, 09:55 AM

Hiya Gjl. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

More in general, kick would be good to deal with assholes, especialy if a kick also means 'no rejoin'.
However, I don't need to kick cheaters. My major concern when it comes to cheating is not what happens in my team...

trypticon

Jul 23, 2004, 08:46 PM

On 2004-07-20 17:20, gream-green wrote:

No he is not right! What are you having trouble understanding? It's obvious when somebody is cheating, nobody is debating the significance of said video game besides you. Thish makes your statements that much more insane, why would you take the time to cheat at something you have deemed so inconsequential? I personally am not that stubborn I just have no desire to play with a cheater like you.

Excuse me? A cheater like me? Dear man, you have no idea what you're writing about, or whom you are replying to. I am a guy that continued playing legit even after three corruptions (levels 32, 132, 178) to get my RAcast to level 200. Not many people believed that it could be done, and I didn't give enough of a shit to try to alter their distorted elite legit views. And honestly, after that, I didn't give a rip anymore, and just wanted to have fun. I don't know how many thousands of hours you have been playing this game, but when you have spent 3000+ on it, as a lot of the n00b hax0rs or dupers have, the same thing over and over might start to get just a little boring to you.

[ This Message was edited by: trypticon on 2004-07-23 19:48 ]

Tycho

Jul 23, 2004, 10:46 PM

On 2004-07-23 18:46, trypticon wrote:

Excuse me? A cheater like me? Dear man, you have no idea what you're writing about, or whom you are replying to. I am a guy that continued playing legit even after three corruptions (levels 32, 132, 178) to get my RAcast to level 200. Not many people believed that it could be done, and I didn't give enough of a shit to try to alter their distorted elite legit views. And honestly, after that, I didn't give a rip anymore, and just wanted to have fun. I don't know how many thousands of hours you have been playing this game, but when you have spent 3000+ on it, as a lot of the n00b hax0rs or dupers have, the same thing over and over might start to get just a little boring to you.

[ This Message was edited by: trypticon on 2004-07-23 19:48 ]

Three corruptions, and at those levels.. that's horrible. Okay, maybe the 32 wasn't all that bad, the other two times were worse.
3000+ hour people should get respect either way; what bothers me though is the legions of noobie cheaters. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less about their style of play.
It's kinda annoying though how arrogant most of them are with their cute haxed 3000 dam weapons.. 'Cause they're audacious, they're too lazy to train up and fight in hard areas anyway, hog the xp, then get backstabbed by a weak enemy, die in one hit since their ATP is all they cheated up, and expect help that very same moment.. <_<
No, there's not much wrong with people who decide to cross the line after thousands of hours, you probably don't use uberpercentunobtainble weaps anyway, if you got that far with your lvls you'd know how to behave as well.
I think you should still be able to join legit games whenever you'd feel like it.

If I'm mistaken, I'm sorry bc you'd probably take this as an offense. xD

Solstis

Jul 24, 2004, 11:09 AM

On 2004-07-23 20:46, Tycho wrote:

On 2004-07-23 18:46, trypticon wrote:

Excuse me? A cheater like me? Dear man, you have no idea what you're writing about, or whom you are replying to. I am a guy that continued playing legit even after three corruptions (levels 32, 132, 178) to get my RAcast to level 200. Not many people believed that it could be done, and I didn't give enough of a shit to try to alter their distorted elite legit views. And honestly, after that, I didn't give a rip anymore, and just wanted to have fun. I don't know how many thousands of hours you have been playing this game, but when you have spent 3000+ on it, as a lot of the n00b hax0rs or dupers have, the same thing over and over might start to get just a little boring to you.

[ This Message was edited by: trypticon on 2004-07-23 19:48 ]

Three corruptions, and at those levels.. that's horrible. Okay, maybe the 32 wasn't all that bad, the other two times were worse.
3000+ hour people should get respect either way; what bothers me though is the legions of noobie cheaters. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less about their style of play.
It's kinda annoying though how arrogant most of them are with their cute haxed 3000 dam weapons.. 'Cause they're audacious, they're too lazy to train up and fight in hard areas anyway, hog the xp, then get backstabbed by a weak enemy, die in one hit since their ATP is all they cheated up, and expect help that very same moment.. <_<
No, there's not much wrong with people who decide to cross the line after thousands of hours, you probably don't use uberpercentunobtainble weaps anyway, if you got that far with your lvls you'd know how to behave as well.
I think you should still be able to join legit games whenever you'd feel like it.

If I'm mistaken, I'm sorry bc you'd probably take this as an offense. xD

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

My lazy self has been playing a damn long time, and if someone gives me crap for either playing legitly or not (depends on my mood), I either get semi-depressed or pissed.

Pissed is my general mood now. I probably won't be playing this game in about two weeks, and if I want to hang out with my legit friends, or my illegit friends, I think I will, thankyouverymuchnowbackoffmr.jerk.

If I want to wade into a crowd of monsters with my HUmar wearing a red ring (for the hefty evasion boost), a mind mag and vulcans, I think I should be able too. Am I killing more monsters than you with a vulcan?

Hell no!

Is it ruining your play experience if I dodge some extra attacks?

Hell no!

Tycho

Jul 24, 2004, 11:17 AM

On 2004-07-24 09:09, Solstis wrote:

My lazy self has been playing a damn long time, and if someone gives me crap for either playing legitly or not (depends on my mood), I either get semi-depressed or pissed.

thankyouverymuchnowbackoffmr.jerk.

What was that for? Did I 'give you crap for either playing legitly or not'?

Solstis

Jul 24, 2004, 11:19 AM

On 2004-07-24 09:17, Tycho wrote:

On 2004-07-24 09:09, Solstis wrote:

My lazy self has been playing a damn long time, and if someone gives me crap for either playing legitly or not (depends on my mood), I either get semi-depressed or pissed.

thankyouverymuchnowbackoffmr.jerk.

What was that for? Did I 'give you crap for either playing legitly or not'?

In general! In general!

Not you!

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

I knew that I should have put a disclaimer up.

Tycho

Jul 24, 2004, 09:59 PM

I'm sorry I misunderstood. >_>
We should get on-topic again by the way..

Evergea

Jul 30, 2004, 08:13 AM

Superguppie

Jul 30, 2004, 10:13 AM

On 2004-07-30 06:13, Evergea wrote:
Cheating and going against the rules, most kids are told not to do it when they are younger. Someone cheats, the game isn't as fun as it could have been. And you don't care about this?

Just for myself, if someone ruins his own game by cheating, I couldn't care less. It's ruining someone elses fun that I object to. And that doesn't just go for cheating. Spamming and provacative racism/sexism are others we can find on PSO.

PSO may not be real, but it is an extention (like many other things) of the lives that people have. There is no such thing as "real" life. Some play PSO passionatly, that passion is removed when someone cheats.

Exactly. Just because it's not the real world, doesn't mean you can just misbehave in any way possible. I use games in general, and over the past year PSO in particular, to keep myself sane. If the fun of the game is ruined by misbehavior of others, I take that very seriously. I'm not saying cheating shouldn't be, but cheaters should be aware of what they are doing to others.

I wish cheat devices had never been made.

To be blunt: Cheating in PSO is wrong. Legit and Non Legit shouldn't be terms, but cheat devices have forced them into existance.

Cheating is not a matter of having special devices. Duping is done without any special devices. And if I hack a game I use standard tools such as hex-editors and disassemblers, which are not necessarily cheat-devices.

Mystil

Aug 5, 2004, 04:15 PM

Lol, supergroupie is still here. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif Nice to see some old faces still post here..

Anyhow..

SINCE cheating was BORN in DC PSO. Thus has been going on for 3 years now. NO it does not matter no more. If you dont like cheating, quit PSO and join that miserable game known as FFXI. Playing it would make you realize why I quit THAT GAME and came back to PSO. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2004-08-05 14:16 ]

Superguppie

Aug 6, 2004, 06:39 AM

On 2004-08-05 14:15, Silhouette wrote:
Lol, supergroupie is still here. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif Nice to see some old faces still post here..

Welcome back Silhouette. And I think I saw some other of the old ones post recently too...

Anyhow..

SINCE cheating was BORN in DC PSO. Thus has been going on for 3 years now. NO it does not matter no more. If you dont like cheating, quit PSO and join that miserable game known as FFXI. Playing it would make you realize why I quit THAT GAME and came back to PSO. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

You make it sound like because cheatin has been around for so long it's ok or something. As far as I am concerned any cheating that has negative effects on others is wrong. Always was, always will be. So to me it still does matter. Although I hate a$$holes more than cheaters. (But the people that fall in both categories are the worst...)