Why do legits whine so much?

[Axel3792]

It's not the end of the world if there's a duped item or not in your inventory. Unless you have traded with people who are absolutely 100% sure that they have NEVER traded with a stealthy duper nor recieved an item from a legit who recieved a duped item, you almost certainly have a duped item in your bank. And don't reply to this if you are gonna say something along the lines of "I am sure. All of my friends are legit, and so are their other trade partners", because unless you were there for every item traded, or when the One's and Zero's clicked into place for a monster drop, you have no way of verifying the origins of your items, or at least not all of them.
**I have a dupe. A DUPE!? OMG WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN!?!?! -deletes char- I MUST BE LEGIT!!!!1! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH**

[digigram]

since this thread is fairly counter-productive, it should most likely be moved to rants if ---

And don't reply to this if you are gonna say something along the lines of "I am sure. All of my friends are legit, and so are their other trade partners"

....don't get so mad because you can't control how other people react to things. just fucking play.

[anwserman]

I figure .1% of PSO players play that way... obsessively. So, that means you unfairly grouped all of people who play the game the way it was supposed to be (no dupes and hacked items with fair trades) with the obsessive legitness of the one-tenth of a percent of the PSO population.

Like the poster above (if someone didn't reply between our two posts), this thread is counter-productive and should burn in hell.

[Sagebeat]

Seriously, all this does is spread the flames of prejiduce. read the sticky thread. Of course there are SOME people who are hardcore legit Nazis. Mr./Mrs I cant trade items or accept ANY damn help because I play the game right. But most dont care if you have a duped item, or at least wont make too big a deal. I myself have a few dupes, but only of rare items I put on a backup memory card. Theres a difference between Nazi and Legit.

[phoenixphire]

That's true. Legits "whine" because nearly the entire trading community has been reduced to a bunch of hacked mags and TJS's spread around without anything needed in return. It's like:

Legit: Does anyone have a Heart Key?
Some Guy: I do.
Legit: Wanna trade?
Some Guy: Sure.
Legit: What do you want?
Some Guy: Nothing. You can have it.

This way, legit items never spread BECAUSE NO ONE EVER HAS TO GIVE THEM AWAY! This makes all dupes circulate, while legit items don't. That's why we "whine".

[BonusKun]

On 2004-07-31 18:27, phoenixphire wrote:

This way, legit items never spread BECAUSE NO ONE EVER HAS TO GIVE THEM AWAY! This makes all dupes circulate, while legit items don't. That's why we "whine".



And in the end no matter how much you bitch about it, nothing will not change. Why bother fighting for a lost cause?

[phoenixphire]

Also what Axel is saying isn't going to change anything, but he still has the right to voice his oppinion, no matter how wrong it is.

And about my post, if you haven't noticed the quotation marks, I wasn't agreeing with it being called whining. I'm simply hoping that people would see it from my point of view and chose to become legit. Even if only one person does, then there still would be a purpose for it.

[RedSchwar]

There was no term for "legit" until cheaters separated themselves from the way the game was supposed to be played. I suppose since they are the ones who committed the first wrong, they should expect to catch some flak.

Also, saying "there's nothing you can do to change things" as a reason for oneself to keep doing the wrong thing is quite a cowardly copout. If you know something is wrong, who cares what everyone else does? You should still do the right thing.

[digigram]

red.. phoenix doesn't cheat.

[KaFKa]

why was this topic semi-bumped...?

[darthsaber9x9]

On 2004-08-03 13:08, KaFKa wrote:
why was this topic semi-bumped...?



http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

[Evergea]

It looks like many people have lost passion for arguing with cheaters, or those trying to defend them.

For the same reason legits whine, we have to put up with the same thing that is counter productive - trying to play a game legitely and having unlegits ruin it.

And yes, the unlegits did ruin the game. Legits are trying to salvage it by staying legit.

[heyf00L]

On 2004-08-01 07:46, BonusKun wrote:


On 2004-07-31 18:27, phoenixphire wrote:

This way, legit items never spread BECAUSE NO ONE EVER HAS TO GIVE THEM AWAY! This makes all dupes circulate, while legit items don't. That's why we "whine".And in the end no matter how much you bitch about it, nothing will not change. Why bother fighting for a lost cause?Nothing will not change? So it will change. Gotcha.

[BonusKun]

On 2004-08-04 09:49, heyf00L wrote:


On 2004-08-01 07:46, BonusKun wrote:


On 2004-07-31 18:27, phoenixphire wrote:

This way, legit items never spread BECAUSE NO ONE EVER HAS TO GIVE THEM AWAY! This makes all dupes circulate, while legit items don't. That's why we "whine".And in the end no matter how much you bitch about it, nothing will not change. Why bother fighting for a lost cause?Nothing will not change? So it will change. Gotcha.



Excatly how I said it. Nothing will not change. Not too hard to comprehend I hope.

[Mystil]

On 2004-08-04 06:27, Evergea wrote:
It looks like many people have lost passion for arguing with cheaters, or those trying to defend them.

For the same reason legits whine, we have to put up with the same thing that is counter productive - trying to play a game legitely and having unlegits ruin it.

And yes, the unlegits did ruin the game. Legits are trying to salvage it by staying legit.



Unlegits are fine in several ways. Personally I am not legit, if a "half legit" even existed(or made sense) that would be me, since all my spells are legit, and my mag. But my other stuff are not. Now things like 300% BKB, now that's the kind of cheating I'm against. I figure anything that steals EXP from others, is unacceptable. A Madams Umbrella, and... all cure unites, love heat and all that jazz, dont harm the other players in getting EXP.

Think "what are they doing" while unligit. Some do not have an effect on you whatsoever. EXP and Mag raising is what matters in this game, Overly hacked strong weapons take away EXP, that is acceptable to be frowned upon, for it is directly effecting you. Things like "what hack stuff they are WEARING" should not bother you in the least.

The fact that they got them with little effort while you got the same item with lots of effort, is OK to be angry about. But look in the bright side, you have the full satisfaction of knowing you did work hard for your item.

Btw, you is not as on "you". Just how I word things.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2004-08-05 14:12 ]</font>

[ForceOfBrokenGlass]

On 2004-08-04 06:27, Evergea wrote:
It looks like many people have lost passion for arguing with cheaters, or those trying to defend them.

Good, It seems pointless to whine and complain about a situation day in and day out when nothing will be done anyway. If you need a target to complain to turn to SEGA who's turned a blind eye to this situation.

[Mystil]

They can only fix this by making our characters saved server side.

[modoru]

On 2004-08-04 06:27, Evergea wrote:
It looks like many people have lost passion for arguing with cheaters, or those trying to defend them.

For the same reason legits whine, we have to put up with the same thing that is counter productive - trying to play a game legitely and having unlegits ruin it.

And yes, the unlegits did ruin the game. Legits are trying to salvage it by staying legit.


Im with you.

Yes, Illegits just try to think they're good because they have good weps. and items, but we legits are proud of what we have because WE FOUND THEM, UNLIKE YOU, we didnt cheat 'em off just to think we're cool.No offense but items being banned are because of you cheats, If duping didnt exist Black ring (Among other things) Would be available. But nooo....You just have to cheat your sorry a$$es off to think you're stronger than everyone.

[Eihwaz]

On 2004-08-06 21:48, Silhouette wrote:
They can only fix this by making our characters saved server side.


Blue Burst, anyone? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Uh, yeah, we need to lock this thread ASAP, or somethign.

[SwordDemon]

The game PSO is ruined 4 all newbees because when they first enter a game a duper with tons of hacked stuff trys to lighten the inventory on his charater and just give a kid a hacked j sword a hacked mag and say have a
nice day and dosent teach him nothin plus he dosent know the diffrent from hacked and legit

[Ness]

Most of the whinning legits whine because they can't stand the fact that people enjoy playing the game differently than they do.

[RedSchwar]

Well, Ness. That different is infringing on their rights.

You seem to be a bigtime advocate for defending cheating. Is someone trying to rationalize?

I've watched you. You are here defending your viewpoint at every instance. Why not just give it up and go legit. You seem to want to convince legits that you're not doing anything wrong, which would vicariously convince yourself. I assure you it will not happen.

[darkholemind]

im personally legit most of the people i play with are hackers. BT for example hacks the game when we play to give the levels we are playing in twice the monsters then doubles their difficulty and experience so to get the extra experience we have to fight off massive hordes of monsters at once. its cheating but we are working to get the experience. its all in how you play the game. my star amplifier that i got from one of my legit friends i went out and ground a wand to +15 to get the best varient of the twinkle star. i did this caused i took satisfaction in my effort to get my wepon. what i dont agree with is having some hacker 20 levels lower then me doing more damage through hacked items. I even had someone dupe my legit purple ring just in case of FSOD. im not doing it to spread it around and ruin the legit trading community i do it for my own uses.
When my brother gave me back my delsabers buster (i never looked at the percents) it some how had 0 90 90 90% the sword is legit but the stacked photon spheres used to get those percents werent.thats the kind of cheating i dont like legits take pride in there items. so now i have to out and find another buster to go with my delsabers shield i also found. its not the fact that the cheaters are cheating its mostly that their cheating is hurting our experience of playing the game wathching our characters progress getting better items ect. ect. and since this is an mmo thats the whole point. Your not supposed to be able to get all the best items as soon as you start if you do you might as well go play another game because your not playing the game as it was meant to be played.

[darthsaber9x9]

On 2004-08-16 16:55, Ness wrote:
Most of the whinning legits whine because they can't stand the fact that people enjoy playing the game differently than they do.



Actually i would say its because cheaters have invaded this game, and NEGATIVELY AFFECT THE LEGIT'S PLAYING EXPERIENCE (we did discuss this a while back)

now let's all just wait for supperguppie to arrive...

[RedSchwar]

No doubt. Ness's plugs for "it's OK to cheat" lack any form of reasoning.

[ForceOfBrokenGlass]

On 2004-08-17 14:40, darthsaber9x9 wrote:


On 2004-08-16 16:55, Ness wrote:
Most of the whinning legits whine because they can't stand the fact that people enjoy playing the game differently than they do.



Actually i would say its because cheaters have invaded this game, and NEGATIVELY AFFECT THE LEGIT'S PLAYING EXPERIENCE (we did discuss this a while back)

now let's all just wait for supperguppie to arrive...


Really now... It only effects legit playing experience if they let it. Without cheating, people would simply be leaving games and locking games to avoid people they don't like anwyaw, not because they cheat but for other reasons. It'd probably be because they don't know how to play well, hog items/exp, or because they're newbies.

For the trading instance, What makes you think you could just trust random people anyway? The world doesn't and never has worked that way. You may still be cheated in a trade because someone wouldn't trade away somthing useful to them. For the GC version it's far easier to make another character and level them to get/use an item yourself rather than trust some random potential grifting PSOer who may have gotten piles of the items through cheap random chance (or maybe even figured out the drop system) and is milking them for all they're worth. People jabber about this game being about cooperation but when a red box drops you're all prepared to step over your own mother to get it first.

you don't make friends online, you make acquaintences. You don't know the other people beyond what they tell you in that game you play or what you talk about on the internet. You never find out what that person is truly like because many people just may be putting on an act to get attention. People play with the emotions of other people all the time, even just for fun. Why do you think smarter more well adjusted people start trolling message boards?

Whining players would have been whining whether cheating existed or not, it's just that cheating is the most apparent and easily targetable scapegoat. If it's not one thing it's another. My guess is if cheating didn't exist in this game there would be an entire forum directed at Newbies, "Aol users", or just for random mean people. The simple point is some people just love to complain and need somthing to complain about.

[Superguppie]

On 2004-08-17 14:40, darthsaber9x9 wrote:


On 2004-08-16 16:55, Ness wrote:
Most of the whinning legits whine because they can't stand the fact that people enjoy playing the game differently than they do.



Actually i would say its because cheaters have invaded this game, and NEGATIVELY AFFECT THE LEGIT'S PLAYING EXPERIENCE (we did discuss this a while back)

now let's all just wait for supperguppie to arrive...


grin. I've been following this one without putting in much. Most of what is to be said has been said in previous and recent topics. Also, I sort of agree that there is a lot of whining about cheating, most of which is totaly misplaced. (A lot of complaints are about assholes, and negative behavior that doesn't even require cheating...)
Ofcourse Ness' comment does warrant a response, as does ForceOfBrokenGlasses...

I couldn't care less about how others enjoy the game. I don't even care if they completely fuck up their own gameplay, whether they call that enjoying it or not.
Where I draw the line is when it has (negative) effects on others' (specificaly my own) gameplay/enjoyment. And cheating DOES have those effects. Hence my complaining.



On 2004-08-17 19:21, ForceOfBrokenGlass wrote:
Really now... It only effects legit playing experience if they let it.

Uhhh, as I said before, there ARE effects that CAN NOT be avoided. Like ST deciding not to give legit access to an item because the hackers have already given it an existance. If I never will see Rico sitting on her grave because ST decides not to release the Flow Gene, just explain why I shouldn't complain about that.



Without cheating, people would simply be leaving games and locking games to avoid people they don't like anwyaw, not because they cheat but for other reasons. It'd probably be because they don't know how to play well, hog items/exp, or because they're newbies.

I agree that assholes will always be there and they will always be a pain. I wish ST would start acting against them. I know many legits complain more about assholes than about cheaters, even though they call those assholes cheaters. I have little sympathy for the simpletons that can't make out the difference.
As for the locking to avoid assholes: I met most of the friends I have on PSO by playing in open teams. I regularly meet new nice people by doing so. I refuse to lock that out just to avoid the assholes. So, that way of avoiding the direct encounters with cheaters is not for me. Ofcourse it is a choice, and if I choose not to make any new friends, I can indeed avoid some cheaters by using locks.



For the trading instance, What makes you think you could just trust random people anyway?

When I read the manual, and the ToS, I do get the impression of a game that has the intention of making that possible to a very large extent. Without cheating the only problem would be a lack of information. I could, for instance offer my totaly legit Cross Scars to newbies, claiming it to be the ultimate thing, and extremely rare. Ofcourse anyone that has an Oran in ULT knows that to be crap, but newbies don't...
So, provided my information is ok, yes, I should be able to trade with strangers. Duping and hacking has put an end to this, with the annoying side-effect that I have to ASK for legit stuff, explain what I mean by that, and still be offered the most obvious dupes you can think of.
I consider this a nuisance, but won't complain too much. Although not totaly avoidable, ignoring it when it happens does help if I'm not swamped by these cases.



For the GC version it's far easier to make another character and level them to get/use an item yourself

If you can spare the time, yes. I already have a char for each ID so I can go hunt for anything. Except, most of these chars haven't made it out of Normal yet. Too little time.....
But I do agree that if you are ueber-concerned about the legitness of trade, this is certainly an option.



People jabber about this game being about cooperation but when a red box drops you're all prepared to step over your own mother to get it first.

Not all. I for one don't. Usualy, when I play with my regular teammates, the one closest to it picks it up to see what it is. If he/she can't equip it, it is dropped again for someone who can. Once we know what it is, we ask around who wants it. If we know it to be extremely rare, it usualy goes to the one who picked it up first. We even do this when in a team with some strangers who wandered in. This sometimes costs us a rare because the stranger is closest and doesn't know our habits. It's an acceptable risk to me, as we often find nice people too.



you don't make friends online, you make acquaintences.

That is a matter of definition. I have PSO-friends that are friends in PSO only, as I don't know much about them outside PSO. However, I also met some on PSO that I now MSN and email with regularly. And I really do think of them as friends outside PSO. I'm even going to meet up with some in a month.



Whining players would have been whining whether cheating existed or not, it's just that cheating is the most apparent and easily targetable scapegoat. If it's not one thing it's another. My guess is if cheating didn't exist in this game there would be an entire forum directed at Newbies, "Aol users", or just for random mean people. The simple point is some people just love to complain and need somthing to complain about.

Indeed. I didn't think it in that many words, but this is one of the reasons I didn't reply before. If it weren't for cheating, I might be on a mission to rid PSO of assholes. Although I consider that unlikely. I don't meet that many assholes lately. Even the cheaters I meet, on average, aren't assholes...

[Kadavreski]

don't reply any more to this thread. really, its gonna get locked, and it was bumped.

did we really need all of you to charge in and start moaning about him to read the rules? really.

[Superguppie]

Uhhhhh, you've lost me. If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say anything....

[Kadavreski]

in the rules, it says don;t make topics over legits and stuff.

i qould quote it, but i presume you've read them >_>

[Ketchup345]

The rules don't say anything about legit/unlegits. They only mention no posting codes, and no flaming.

If there can be a flame free discussion (I am fairly sure this is one), then it is all right.