Converting to a religon

[InfinityXXX]

Everyone in my house and family is of some type of religon. All my life i never really cared about religon. I use to think that religon and gods were just vestiges that people rely on to boost their self esteem. I also questioned religon and God.My mom once had the same views as me but 4 months ago my mom became a christian and she went to church. She freed herself from all the negative people in her life and she always looked at things from a positive point of view. Ever since she did this things have been going great for her and her life seems happy. I want to be like my mom and i want to be happy and have things go right for me.

I want to become a christian but i'm not to sure about it. I don't want to tell my mom that i want to be a christian so she and other people in my family won't push the bible on me and rush me in the church. I tried converting to a christian before but I never really understood the bible. I just didn't get anything in it. I told my mom and granparents what would they do if i became a muslim or buddist and they didn't seem to care so I know they won't hate me no matter what religon i become but I just don't know which religon to choose.

I don't want to jump into a religon and don't understand it. I don't know what to do. Then theres this whole thing that if i become Buddist i go to hell and if i become a christian i go to hell and if i become muslim i'll go to hell. Its like whatever religon i go to i'm gonna go to hell or some bad after life by the other. Anyone on this message board that have converted to a religon, what made you convert, why did you convert and was it scary when you first converted. I need advice because i'm about to go insane!!!!!

[Vroomfondel]

You ill not go to hell for becoming Buddhist, Muslim or any other religion. Hell (pardon my terrible pun), I'm a Unitarian and I don't believe I'll be going to the underworld, but thats mostly because I don't believe in it's existence. Also, if you do believe in hell, you won't be sent there for beleiving a certain way, you will be sent there depending on how you live your life and treat other people (something which we all should consider anyway outside of religion).

I will tell you now, though, that you can't expect religion to be a magic cure-all life improver. Some people it happens to — case in point being your mother — and that's extraordinary and I can tell you those people are very lucky. If I were you, I would think about why you might not be happy or why things aren't "going right" for a little bit. Late night self reflection usually brings about some new ideas and realiziations about myself for me, and hopefully it works for other people. The main thing is identifiying those things you do not want in your life, and how you can change them while still being able to accept who you are ( not easy ! )


Whew.



And if you do decide to convert, remember that it is most definitely not permanent and you can always go back and make different choices.

Thats my two cents http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[InfinityXXX]

Thank you http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Quo]

[faith based talk]

It seems you are a questioner. That is a good thing. Find a religion that makes sense. Never accept "It's a mystery" as an appropriate answer. You seem to be a lot like me, so I'll tell you right now: You will never be happy unless your religion makes sense and the world makes sense with your religion.

If God is a righteous God, he cannot damn you for trying to satisfy the logic that he built into you. If he does, then I'll burn in hell with you.

Keep this in mind. true science and true religion are exactly the same. Science doesn't make sense unless you build it upon God. Why are we alive? If you had a pair of sub-atomic tweasers and you took yourself apart atom by atom, you would end up with a pile of atoms that is technically you, but you would be dead. As far as I've been taught, science cannot explain the life that makes things alive.

Lets look at it from a religious point of view. God created the earth. Science is the study of the way the earth works. You could say that science is the study of the works of God. When science proclaims that there is no God, it denies itself and its very purpose.

Religion must be logical. God made man in his image. Man is logical. Ergo: God is logical.

My advice to you: Seek truth. Visit churches, not just the services, but speak to the pastors. Ask questions. Don't be afraid to ask "why." If someone tells you that you don't understand their mystical and largely nonsensical answers because you don't have enough faith, that's not the place for you. God makes sense. Keep moving until you've found the answers to your questions.

[/faith based talk]

[Vroomfondel]

I really don't want to end up in some typical forum philosophical debate, but there were a few parts of this post that really bother me.





On 2004-08-03 00:04, Quo wrote:
[faith based talk]

Keep this in mind. true science and true religion are exactly the same. Science doesn't make sense unless you build it upon God. Why are we alive? If you had a pair of sub-atomic tweasers and you took yourself apart atom by atom, you would end up with a pile of atoms that is technically you, but you would be dead. As far as I've been taught, science cannot explain the life that makes things alive.


I don't really understand what you mean by the first part of this. Science always made perfect sense to me, since it is founded on mathematics. On the other hand, I have no clue what true science and religion are. And please remember that religion also cannot explain the life that makes things alive.



Lets look at it from a religious point of view. God created the earth. Science is the study of the way the earth works. You could say that science is the study of the works of God. When science proclaims that there is no God, it denies itself and its very purpose.


ACK! Please, don't say that ever again! That's what the Bible says. Not every other religion has the Earth being created by one God! Order and Chaos is also a valid belief, as are the now gone polytheistic beliefs; and I find that when many people talk about "religion" they just end up talking about Catholicism/Christianity. And science DOES NOT proclaim there is no God. ATHEISTS, in their self righteous and irritatingly all-knowing manner, claim there is no God. Science depicts the theory of evolution, which is just that: a theory.




Religion must be logical. God made man in his image. Man is logical. Ergo: God is logical.


This is only true if the first sentence is proven or accepted as true. Unfortunately many people will have trouble finding the logic in the earth being created out of the sheer will of a higher being, and will also have trouble in finding the logic of the Universe inexplicably exploding out of nothing http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif

Also many of the things people do are not logical when thought about http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



My advice to you: Seek truth. Visit churches, not just the services, but speak to the pastors. Ask questions. Don't be afraid to ask "why." If someone tells you that you don't understand their mystical and largely nonsensical answers because you don't have enough faith, that's not the place for you. God makes sense. Keep moving until you've found the answers to your questions.

[/faith based talk]



http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gifI agree.

I don't mean this post in a hostile manner or anything, I just feel since that the point of this thread is to help this kid make a big decision, i want to try and clarify some things that could otherwise really confuse him ( and me too http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif ). this is all heavy stuff, and I'm already getting bogged down in it since I'm sure none of us will ever know the answers to Life, the Universe, and Everything anyway http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Quo]

Keep in mind that I have done almost exactly what I have told Infinity to do. The things that I say are the truths that I have found. I'm not telling you that you have to believe them.



On 2004-08-03 00:31, Vroomfondel wrote:
I really don't want to end up in some typical forum philosophical debate, but there were a few parts of this post that really bother me.





On 2004-08-03 00:04, Quo wrote:
[faith based talk]

Keep this in mind. true science and true religion are exactly the same. Science doesn't make sense unless you build it upon God. Why are we alive? If you had a pair of sub-atomic tweasers and you took yourself apart atom by atom, you would end up with a pile of atoms that is technically you, but you would be dead. As far as I've been taught, science cannot explain the life that makes things alive.


I don't really understand what you mean by the first part of this. Science always made perfect sense to me, since it is founded on mathematics.


Right. Science is almost entirely true because it is based on logic and math. It's the theories that cannot be proven (thus they remain theories) that muddle things slightly.



On the other hand, I have no clue what true science and religion are.


True science: see above.

True religion: Of course you don't know. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif That what this thread is about. That's why there are so many religions. You must admit though, that because all religions differ, There can be at the most only one true religion. There could be no currently existing 100% true religion. Each legitimate (church of Elvis et al. do not qualify) religion has some truth. The key is to find those truths (they're the parts that make sense) and put them together with the other truths from other religions.



And please remember that religion also cannot explain the life that makes things alive.


(Refer to the top of the post). Sure it can. The key is spirit. Spirit is the only real substance. In its original form, spirit exists on a plane higher than us. Consider God before the creation of the natural universe. That place that God was/is is that higher plane. Heaven, Hell, a spiritual world that is not the physical world, same idea. What animates that aformentioned pile of atoms? Spirit. The spirit that runs through everything living is the key. Whats the difference between what I was and the pile of atoms? Spirit, at some point, stopped running through me as I dismembered my atomic particles. At that point, I am dead. The physical matter that exists in the natural universe is another form of spirit. At creation God made this plane of existance, the physical universe, out of the spirit he has and is. I'm not sure what the process is to take spirit from its original form and turn it into physical substance, but I am sure that God did so. Things in the spitual plane are spirit, and things in the natural plane are spirit, albeit in a slightly different form. God is spirit. Specifically, he is a regenerating dynamo of spirit. I'm not sure how that works, but I sure it does, and I'm sure I'll know someday. Souls are spirit (BTW, you don't have a soul, you are a soul). So, we, being spirit, live on spirit. Just as our bodies, made of atoms, must ingest more atoms to survive.

That was a bit more long winded than I wanted it to be.





Lets look at it from a religious point of view. God created the earth. Science is the study of the way the earth works. You could say that science is the study of the works of God. When science proclaims that there is no God, it denies itself and its very purpose.


ACK! Please, don't say that ever again! That's what the Bible says. Not every other religion has the Earth being created by one God! Order and Chaos is also a valid belief, as are the now gone polytheistic beliefs; and I find that when many people talk about "religion" they just end up talking about Catholicism/Christianity. And science DOES NOT proclaim there is no God. ATHEISTS, in their self righteous and irritatingly all-knowing manner, claim there is no God. Science depicts the theory of evolution, which is just that: a theory.


Refer to the top of the post.





Religion must be logical. God made man in his image. Man is logical. Ergo: God is logical.


This is only true if the first sentence is proven or accepted as true. Unfortunately many people will have trouble finding the logic in the earth being created out of the sheer will of a higher being, and will also have trouble in finding the logic of the Universe inexplicably exploding out of nothing http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif


The three subsequent sentences were the proof for the first. The first is true because it is assumed that the others are true. Not visa-versa. What's wrong with believing that logic comes from God? Should you believe that everything stems from God (refer to the top of the post) then you must assume that logic follows suit (there I go explaining logic with logic again http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif )



Also many of the things people do are not logical when thought about http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Because people have free will (refer to the top of the post). As a general principle, people are logical. When people are illogical, they choose not to do the logical thing.





My advice to you: Seek truth. Visit churches, not just the services, but speak to the pastors. Ask questions. Don't be afraid to ask "why." If someone tells you that you don't understand their mystical and largely nonsensical answers because you don't have enough faith, that's not the place for you. God makes sense. Keep moving until you've found the answers to your questions.

[/faith based talk]



http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gifI agree.

I don't mean this post in a hostile manner or anything, I just feel since that the point of this thread is to help this kid make a big decision, i want to try and clarify some things that could otherwise really confuse him ( and me too http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif ). this is all heavy stuff, and I'm already getting bogged down in it since I'm sure none of us will ever know the answers to Life, the Universe, and Everything anyway http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



I'm glad we agree. Though we differ on some beliefs, our advice is the same. Thats a good thing. It's not really that big of a decision if he takes our advice http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif. Jumping into a religion blindly would be a big decision.

Infinity: Make sure you know what you're doing before you do it.

[opaopajr]

it's a personal thang... between you, your faith, and your god.

if you are getting all stressed about it then perhaps you should best put the subject away and live your life.

faith wells up from within in the proper time you are willing to accept it. don't push the process, you'll only get confused.

better? now go live life. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[dude3282]

On 2004-08-03 00:31, Vroomfondel wrote:
I'm sure none of us will ever know the answers to Life, the Universe, and Everything anyway http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


42.

[Nai_Calus]

I find a nice long float in a pool, at night, with a full moon and rain, works more wonders for your mind and your mood than any religion ever will.

[Madzozs]

Infinity, the only advice I can give you is this. Don't believe because someone else believes. Just because things worked out for your mom, doesn't mean they happened due to her newfound religion.

[Azbats]

I dont know if it's so much that you want to belive in a religion, it looks to me that you're looking to fill a void in your life and you're hoping religion might do that for you.

I don't know if you have a father [you only mentioned a mum]. If you don't maybe you are lacking that Father figure in your life and hoping that > Enter name of Diety here < can compensate for you.

I think the best thing you can do is maybe talk to a counsellor [that's what they are there for http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif] and tell them about the axieties that you are feeling.

I think you are very brave to make a post like this and I wish you all the best.

[Eihwaz]

On 2004-08-03 03:05, Ian-KunX wrote:
I find a nice long float in a pool, at night, with a full moon and rain, works more wonders for your mind and your mood than any religion ever will.


Damn, that sounds good right about now.

Er, anyway. Religion. Eh, I used to be into it when I was younger, but not anymore. It just doesn't make sense to me. Some religion can, and frequently is, good. But, eh, most forms of Christianity are too self-righteous to me. The whole "Wee, we're gonna live forever, anyone who disagrees is gonna burn in hell!" idea sickens me.

And I try to base my life on morality. Doing the right thing, and all that good stuff. I would like to believe in a karma sorta thing, but I know better. >_<

Yeah, something like that. o_O People can have their own views, as long as they don't try to cram them down my throat. >_>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eihwaz on 2004-08-03 07:25 ]</font>

[astuarlen]

Here's a quote I like: "It doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe." You don't have to believe in God(s), Nirvana, reincarnation, ancestral spirits, Heaven, Hell or any of that stuff; you can believe in yourself, others, nature, science, etc. And believe it or not (heh), you can still be a positive, fulfilled, moral person. Although the tenets of a certain religion can be learned, faith cannot. Just keep an open mind and examine things as they come to you. And listen to opaopajr. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[KaFKa]

im not going to get myself wrapped up into the religious debate just because that would cause too much flaming and probably would end up in a ban for myself...


all im going to say is that religion, whatever you believe in, is only going to hinder you ultimately. it's up to you if you want to live and be happy within that hinderance.

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_sheep.gif

[Aredhel]

Here's something to consider:

"Every time a scientist, philosopher, artist, or athelete pushes our thresholds to new ground the entire race evolves...sacrific[ing] life, dr[inking] goat's blood...This sort of behavior is left to the psychotic, dogmatic, fundamentalist believers you see on your T.V. everyday letting off bombs and killing people in the name of God. Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing..."

[Zebulan7]

"Every time a scientist, philosopher, artist, or athelete pushes our thresholds to new ground the entire race evolves...sacrific[ing] life, dr[inking] goat's blood...This sort of behavior is left to the psychotic, dogmatic, fundamentalist believers you see on your T.V. everyday letting off bombs and killing people in the name of God. Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing..."

Don't think that that is the best quote to go by. Religion is very important for me, and I do many things because of it, but there is still more to consider. Being a plain, nice, good natured, caring person is much better than claiming to be of any religious group. There are some pretty mean religious people who have forgotten what faith is all about, about caring for one another (that sounds weird). Its sad for me to say that you shouldn't look to others for examples, unless you find that one person who just has it.

Thats all I'm going to say.

[Solstis]

Hm... I used to use religion to fill a hole in my life, but came to find holes in it

Personally, I am now True Neutral with an alignment of 50.

[Ness]

Nothing agaisnt the Christians here or anything, but I was a Christian for 14 years and the religion just isn't for me. So iI wouldn't reccomend it, but that doesn't mean that you won't be happy with it. Personally, I'm alot happier without religon than I was when I had one. You don't need a diety to tell you how to be happy; happiness comes from within.

In summary: Stay nonreligious.

[ABDUR101]

No pontification, it's in the rules.

Before I lock this topic, I'll say that ultimately, to be happy, have high spirits and look at the world in the right way, you are the core. No religion can make you a better or a happier person. And to me, it doesn't make any sense to "become" a christian, or a muslim, or a hindu or a buddhist, or any of the uncountable numbers of different religious beleivers.

You have a brain, and if you want to learn from what beleifs there are, don't subject yourself to a single one. Study as many as you can, accept and beleive what you want, learn from all of them, use the examples you are given to make yourself a better and more understanding person. By limiting yourself to any single way of thought, you are closing yourself off from all the others which could give you that much more understanding.

Don't confuse yourself, don't read into anything too much, don't go overboard, don't accept half truths and always keep an open mind. Never rely on anything other than yourself to be happy and to feel good.

Just remember that everyone has their own thoughts on everything, even among each religion. There are different sects among each, as long as you don't get caught up in the maelstrom of it all and look at the big picture, you'll be fine.

And with that, the thread is locked since it rather goes against the rules and it's no doubt going to end with a lot of people argueing over things that don't need to be argued over. I suggest you find some individual sites on your own for further information, and I wish you good luck in your studies.