Guide: Anwserman's Melee FOnewearl Guide

[anwserman]

My first guide, for a Melee FOnewearl.
Could you guys add it please? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Also, since this is my first guide, if any more info is needed from me in regards to the actual guide - please post. It is for Episode 1 and 2 only!


Anwserman's Melee FOnewearl Guide

First Note: The melee FOnewearl is an extremely tough character to play as, because playing as such a character takes a lot of patience and skill. So, if you've never played PSO before, or never as a force, do NOT play as this character. Only attempt making a melee FOnewearl if

A) you're a glutton for punishment and getting your rear handed to you,
B) you're getting bored with PSO,
C) you're skilled with being a FOrce (many guides on this site emphasize this fact alone),
D) you're willing to play with a difficult, yet rewarding, character.

We'll start on MAGs first, as your material usage is dependant on the mags you raise.

MAGs
You'll be needing two mags for this character. Even though the purpose of the FOnewearl is Melee, there will be times where melee isn't going to work out quite well (Vol Opt and VR Dragon ring a bell), so you want two mags. The first mag will be the "Melee Mag", that focuses on POW and DEX, while the second mag will focus on MIND.

"Melee Mag"
Note: This mag you'll be using for your combat. The power and dex on this mag will max out both ATP and ATA on your character at level 200. Material usage isn't necessary for POW, as the mag will handle it quite fine. The level for DEX on this mag is high, because in Ultimate mode one should worry about their slots being used for elemental resist units instead of units increasing the character's ATA.

50 POW - 50 is the MAXIMUM level that you want on this stat. Trust me, you'll max out your ATP at level 200 with just 50 POW on the mag.
106 DEX - 106 is the MAXIMUM level you want on this stat. Your ATA will max at level 200 with 106 DEX.
DEF and MIND - These two are a toss-up. If you're raising a normal mag, with certain blasts, these two levels will vary so I'm not going to specify any particular levels for either. However, the level of DEF on the mag will alter how many Defense materials you'll be using later on. Look down at the Material Usage in this guide for more information.

"Mind Mag"
Certain situations you'll be almost worthless with your physical attacks. So, instead of having prolonged, difficult and essentially impossible boss battles with Vol Opt, your teammates and yourself will thank you for switching to a MIND mag and help out with techniques and take on the more traditional role of a support force. Anyway, a change of pace is a good thing.

MIND - Put as many levels on this Mag stat as you possibly can.
DEF, POW and DEX - Ignore these stats completely, and try avoid gaining levels on each of these stats.

Material Usage
45 Luck Materials - You won't be doing tons of damage as a melee FOnewearl, so every piece of damage you can milk out of a hit helps. So make sure those hits are critical hits.
MAXIMUM 20 Defense Materials - At level 200, you only need 56 DFP points to max out the character's defense... this doesn't include a mag either. To figure out how many Defense Materials you'll need on your character, use this equation below.

(56 - (Defense Points on "Melee Mag")) / 2

If the resultant comes out to xx.5, either raise the DEF on the POW/DEX mag by one point if the mag isn't at level 200, or round the number up.
THE REST Mind Materials - That is right. After feeding the right amount of Luck and Defense materials to your character, finish off with nothing but Mind Materials.

Note: Do not use any Evasion or Power materials, or any other material for that matter unless listed above! The FOnewearl's evasion beats out the HUcast, HUnewearl and HUmar and bested by the HUcaseal by around 50 points! Avoid power materials also, you'll max out your ATP at level 200 if you have a Mag with level 50 POW on it.

Weapons
Percents: One thing is for sure, you want percents... to milk the most damage out of enemies of couse! For hit, however, it isn't required to have a hit percent on a weapon. Though, my experience with accuracy has proven that having ATA below 220 with weapon equipped won't get you far in Ultimate mode, except maybe Forest...

Weapon Selection: Now, what weapons you choose for your FOnewearl might change whether or not your FOnewearl is melee. For Ultimate mode, I'd suggest a Diska with hit and a Bringer's Rifle for sniping enemies... though such weapons might not be available and/or might not fit your definition of melee since they are capable of distance attacks too.

Other members have noted that in addition to using a Diska and a Bringer's Rifle, the FOnewearl can also use...

Twin Chakram, dagger-type weapon.
Red Saber, saber-type weapon.

Equipment
No brainer, really. You want the best equipment available, with the right elemental resistances for the stage you're going to playing in. There are so many combinations of gear I won't list any, but getting decent rare items for your level should be your top priority, but don't sweat it if you don't have the best equipment. Just be sure to play smart.

Final Notes
Techniques - This falls under list item "C)" above, but I'll list it anyway. Upgrade your techniques to their max, and ALWAYS make sure that you have Shifta/Deband at all times and make sure anything that moves has Jellen and Zalure casted on it. ALWAYS.
Dedication - You'll get your rump handed to you ASAP, especially if your mags aren't completed and aren't at level 200. You need to be dedicated and to stick with the character; don't expect to fly through the Seabed or Ruins in an hour like you could with a hunter... it just isn't going to happen. Patience is required for the melee FOnewearl.

In conclusion... have fun!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: anwserman on 2004-08-03 12:33 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: anwserman on 2004-08-03 12:42 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: anwserman on 2004-08-03 14:02 ]</font>

Not finished yet.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: anwserman on 2004-08-04 15:21 ]</font>

[KaFKa]

melee, by defenition, is up close and personal. how does ranged fighting equal melee is all that im asking...

[anwserman]

... you do have a point.
But then again, in Ultimate Mode, ranged can quickly turn into up-close and personal.

And the Diska can target 4 enemies, whether they're closer to you or not. Basically, it boils down to the Diska is the sword and the gun is for distance shooting.

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Nai_Calus]

Shouldn't you be making three mags?

Unless you're an AR L200 n00b, I'm not sure it's a good idea to be running around with your L200 maxing mag. XP

And I second Kafka on the ranged stuff. Slicers are a grey area, but you're not really 'meleeing' per se. >_>; Then again, I use a FOmar, so I actually CAN go full-on Hunter-type gear. >_>; *pets Soul Banish, S-Rank Twin and Red Handgun*

[navci]

I'd want to suggest Daggers. They hit 6 times, they are SO totally melee, and they let you up close enough to make sure you Jellen/Zalure so you will never forget. Daggers and partisans are your friends.

[RicoRoyal]

Your weapon's list is very vauge and has little to do with melee, as has already been brought up by other people.

Like navi said, Partisans and Daggers. I can think of two examples right off the top of my head.
- Plantain Huge Fan
- Twin Chakram

Both are usuable by the FOnewearl thanks to the fan having an MST requirement rather than an ATP requirement and thanks to the Twin Chakram having an incredibly low (and attainable even by the FOnewearl) ATP requirement.

For the most part, I find that rifles and mechguns are not melee weapons. And I have mixed feelings about slicers.

EDIT: K, you added the twin while I was writing this. How bout adding the huge fan?

EDIT 2:
I have another suggestion for weapons.
- G-Assassin's Sabers
If you disagree, feel free to say so; I, however, find nothing wrong with a FOnewearl using this weapon.

One more thing... sabers? What happend here? When most people think PSO melee, sabers come into mind.
- Red Saber
Yes, a FOnewearl can use it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RicoRoyal on 2004-08-03 14:13 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RicoRoyal on 2004-08-03 14:19 ]</font>

[anwserman]

Should I take the guide down and just evaluate it? One of the things I was striving for when writing the guide was for items that were easily attainable... e.g., I can guarentee that a Twin Chakram is harder to find then a Diska with hit... as I have like 5 Diskas with hit in my bank compared to one Twin Chakram.

That somebody gave me. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
Well, it is my first guide, so keep with the comments.

I need to get ready for work.

[RicoRoyal]

See my edits for more weapon suggestions.

I would like to comment on something else with this post. Not everything the FOnewearl will be using needs hit. She has the highest hit out of all the FOs, and it's almost a joke when one realizes that her max ATA is almost the same as that of the all-powerful HUcast. Hit for a FOnewearl's weapons is a nice option, but by no means required. With the exception of the G-assasin sabers I listed, all weapons I suggested have very nice base ATA boost; especially the Red Saber.

[Nai_Calus]

You're also extremely incorrect in saying that Twin Chakram is the only dagger FOnl can use.

FOnl usable daggers:

Twin Chakram
S-Berril's Hands #0
Wok of Akiko's Shop
P-Arms' Blade

[Dhylec]

while making this into a guide can be as snappy as copy & paste, but it all depends on the admin's available time & willingness to do it
so instead of sitting in SL, we can have it sticky up in the according forum to be commented, revised & improved while waiting to be converted.. =)

[anwserman]

On 2004-08-03 19:44, Dhylec wrote:
while making this into a guide can be as snappy as copy & paste, but it all depends on the admin's available time & willingness to do it
so instead of sitting in SL, we can have it sticky up in the according forum to be commented, revised & improved while waiting to be converted.. =)



w00t. Sticky.
I'll edit it with comments until people think its AOK.

Ian... gah words don't describe your knowledge of PSO. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[RicoRoyal]

On 2004-08-03 21:16, anwserman wrote:
Ian... gah words don't describe your knowledge of PSO. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



http://www.pso-world.com/item_compare.php?section=8&class=Dagger&version=v3
+
http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1181
=
http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-08-03 21:50, RicoRoyal wrote:


On 2004-08-03 21:16, anwserman wrote:
Ian... gah words don't describe your knowledge of PSO. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



http://www.pso-world.com/item_compare.php?section=8&class=Dagger&version=v3
+
http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1181
=
http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif



Or as Rico has correctly noted, my ability to use PSOW's item database. ^_-

I would make a melee FOmar guide, but it would consist of a link to my support Force guide thread, a short suggested equipment list and then a large flashing neon green and hot pink animated .gif reading "MECHGUNS ARE NOT MELEE AND THE SPIKY HAIRSTYLE SUCKS ASS, N00BTARDS!!!!!" http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif And yes, I know you used mechs on Flow, awnser, but there's a difference between using something for a boss and using Nothing. Else. @_x *kills several spiky-haired mechgun FOmars*

[Sitka]

No offense answerman, but a FOnewearl is simply not and should not be considered a "melee force."

I have seen hacked FOnewearl's wielding red sabers and dealing out 2-3,000 damage per hit - but that's just stupid - a cheat designed to subvert the nature of how the characters was designed to be played. This is what hacking has allowed some characters to be portrayed.

As Gream once said, there is no such thing as a "melee force."

You are a force. That's it. You have the option of using magic to support your team (and you better damn it!) and then you can use weapons or magic to attack. If playing solo, you can use a combination of weapons and magic to attack and defend.

I've seen forces who consider themselves to be "melee forces" and they neglect their teammates to the point that they make themselves very unpopular. That's too bad, but I blame the "melee force" concept for these novice forces playing the way they do.

Now some forces have certain advantages and special weapon advantages that allow them to use a weapon as well or better than attack magic in some - but not all - cases.

This is not the case for the FOnewearl whose stats and weapon animations are better served staying back out of harm's way, supporting the team and selectively attacking specific beasts or tagging hoards while her teammates obliterate them with their more powerful weapons. The best way to learn how to play a force well, in my opinion, is to play one on c-mode.

In c-mode, you won't have the advantage of uber-stats, uber-discs and hacked weapons - you need to rely on playing the character the way it is designed to be played. So, forces support and focus on hard-to-kill enemies, rangers stay back out of the fray and distract enemies and assist in killing difficult ones and hunters step into the fray and hack the room into submission.

People can and will choose to play their characters the way they want - after all, this is a RPG - but, I for one will always play the FOnewearl the way they were designed to be played - support whorce first, basic magic blaster second.

[Tycho]

The c-mode story again Sitka? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif
Anyway, I have a question. I don't doubt it's a challenge, but is it even worth having your foney meleeing (and risking her live and giving up mats) when you have nuke techs?

[anwserman]

On 2004-08-04 06:42, Sitka wrote:
No offense answerman, but a FOnewearl is simply not and should not be considered a "melee force."

I have seen hacked FOnewearl's wielding red sabers and dealing out 2-3,000 damage per hit - but that's just stupid - a cheat designed to subvert the nature of how the characters was designed to be played. This is what hacking has allowed some characters to be portrayed.

As Gream once said, there is no such thing as a "melee force."

You are a force. That's it. You have the option of using magic to support your team (and you better damn it!) and then you can use weapons or magic to attack. If playing solo, you can use a combination of weapons and magic to attack and defend.

I've seen forces who consider themselves to be "melee forces" and they neglect their teammates to the point that they make themselves very unpopular. That's too bad, but I blame the "melee force" concept for these novice forces playing the way they do.

Now some forces have certain advantages and special weapon advantages that allow them to use a weapon as well or better than attack magic in some - but not all - cases.

This is not the case for the FOnewearl whose stats and weapon animations are better served staying back out of harm's way, supporting the team and selectively attacking specific beasts or tagging hoards while her teammates obliterate them with their more powerful weapons. The best way to learn how to play a force well, in my opinion, is to play one on c-mode.

In c-mode, you won't have the advantage of uber-stats, uber-discs and hacked weapons - you need to rely on playing the character the way it is designed to be played. So, forces support and focus on hard-to-kill enemies, rangers stay back out of the fray and distract enemies and assist in killing difficult ones and hunters step into the fray and hack the room into submission.

People can and will choose to play their characters the way they want - after all, this is a RPG - but, I for one will always play the FOnewearl the way they were designed to be played - support whorce first, basic magic blaster second.



No, its called you play with dipshits then. And a FOnewearl doing 2,000 damage per swing? I never have hit that much with a Red Saber swing, maybe 200 or 300.

But anyway, if I'm constantly casting J/Z on every enemy, and still keeping tabs on the other people when they need S/D, Resta and Anti, how am I being detrimental to the team? By replacing magic attacks with physical ones, I can conserve TP and not have to go to town every room or two because I have no magic.

I can often go through Ultimate Ruins off of 10 trifluids, and thats supporting the whole team. Most forces I've played with go through that many trifluids in a single floor.

Oh, to quote myself above,
Only attempt making a melee FOnewearl if

A) you're a glutton for punishment and getting your rear handed to you,
B) you're getting bored with PSO,
C) you're skilled with being a FOrce (many guides on this site emphasize this fact alone),
D) you're willing to play with a difficult, yet rewarding, character.

I should not have to say anything else.



On 2004-08-04 08:20, Tycho wrote:
The c-mode story again Sitka? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif
Anyway, I have a question. I don't doubt it's a challenge, but is it even worth having your foney meleeing (and risking her live and giving up mats) when you have nuke techs?



It takes longer to kill an enemy but it isn't as hurtful when it comes to the bank account. And anyway, it is the FOnewm who has the nuke techs, he gets the 30% bonus on them.

[Sitka]

Hey Answerman,

I don't think Green Gream, Asia Skyly, Shigecki, Bacon, Sanzo, Hiro, Digigram et al will take too kindly to being called "dipshits." That's who I play with most of the time.

Anyway, the FOnewearl doing the big damage with the Red Saber was a hack - I thought I made that clear - and the reason people are encouraged to do that is because of the talk about "melee forces."

Once again, I go back to the basic argument that you are a force - not a magic-using force or a melee force - you are a force.

We do not disagree that you should use weapons to conserve TP when you can - and yes I go back to c-mode where we often find ourselves running low on TP and resort to tagging beasties in the back with a cane to get enough experience to level up for a replenished TP.

So you and I see the same on the central issues in your post. Where we disagree is with the concept of a "melee FOnewearl." She's a FOnwearl - that's it. She uses weapons when she can to conserve TP and we both support that.

So what you refer to as a "melee FOnewearl," I call a FOnewearl who balances her play between support, attack and defense with the intelligent use of magic and weapons.

And Tycho, the reason I refer to c-mode so often when talking about playing the characters the way they are supposed to be played has to do with the fact that there are no high level discs, weapons, or HACKS to distort the play.

Would anyone in c-mode really want a melee-FOnewearl as part of their team?

[Saffran]

Would could anyone in c-mode really want afford a melee-FOnewearl as part of their team?

self explanatory...

[Nai_Calus]

No, although the way you rant on, I'm not sure I'd want YOU as part of my team, either. >_>;

Ok, gream is obviously ignorant, whether you think so or not, if he/she claims that there is no such thing as a melee Force.

And I also repeat the statement that you must play with dumbass people if you've never seen a good melee Force.

Now, I AM of the opinion that FOnewearl shouldn't even bother with melee. Then again, I'm also of the opinion that FOnewearl shouldn't be bothered with period.

Speaking of the dumbass comment, neither I nor I think the first person to say that was calling your usual crowd that. If I say "Wow, all RAmars suck", and then someone goes on to say "Wow, you must play with dumbasses, then", I'm going to have to agree with them. My usual crowd on GC didn't use RAmars for the most part - The RAmars I did encounter were, indeed, usually played by fucking dumbasses. Since you seem like nobody in your group has the skill to be a melee Force, I must conclude that nobody in your group of 'skilled' people is a melee Force, and that your experience of them consists of n00bs, who are hardly a yardstick of potential. RAmars I find crap as a character looking at their stats and the one I briefly had, but that doesn't mean they have no potential whatsoever to be any good.

And now I bitchslap your argument to hell. ^_-

Ok, see that sticky on support Forcing? Yeah, I wrote that. Yeah, a bunch of people agree with it(And have said things I forgot to note that I will have to edit in when I get the time). Yeah, most of the people I used to play with on GC online would agree that I was one of the best, if not the best, support Forces they'd played with. I'm the master of screwing myself for the team. Stand in the middle of the room and draw the enemies to myself? Check. Run across the room to Anti you? Check. Screw my buttons over by holding my PB for the entirety of a level? Check. Wear a Resta Merge for just about everything? Check. Keep up the S/D/J/Z/R? Check. It's my religion. I've played support with a HUmar before to a team full of droids. I did it well. I avoid androids for the sole reason of them not being suited at all to being support Forces.

Now. I am also a melee Force. Yes, I am. I use the same exact type of equipment set that my HUmar uses on my FOmar. Actually, my FOmar has a better Partisan than my HUmar does. Soul Banish as opposed to Red Partisan. S-Rank Twin?(Which, incidentally, I earned myself) Check. Red Handgun? Yeah. Red Slicer if I feel the situation will call for it? Yep, sitting there in my bank. POW/DEX Mag? Yeah. Zero fights like the HUs. Zero does DAMAGE like the HUs. Zero isn't even maxed out on anything, either, and he still goes around like he's a HU. ...But he also goes around as a Force. My support instincts didn't leave me while I was meleeing online. First order of priority? J/Z the monsters. Keep myself and the rest of the team S/Ded? You'd better believe it. Heal myself and those who need it? Yup. Fall back to support and only support if my PB hits before other team mates hit theirs? Yep.

Now, I realize that I am largely alone in this. Very few people know how to be a good support Force, let alone combining that with proper Hunter techniques to be a good melee Force. I've seen far too many mechgun-toting, support-neglecting 'melee' Forces in my time, and it drives me mad because they give the entire CONCEPT a bad name. I like to think that I do the opposite. :3

Another facet of your argument was 'Would you want a melee Force in C-mode?'. No, I wouldn't but this is also, surprise, a completely irrelevant argument. We are not talking L8 characters here! We are talking about high-levelled, experienced characters who have been in Ult for some time and have found good weapons and good techs and believe it or not, largely have the power and ability to do this sort of thing. If I'm stupid enough to take my FOmar to c-mode, am I also going to be stupid enough to melee? If I run out of TP on a boss stage and TP dying isn't feasible, sure. You start C4 with a Rod, and I know that FOmar has a very effective attack combo with a Rod from using one for fun in Ult Forest online. I've taken a HU through, I know a bit how to avoid getting hit. Would I try it with a FOnewearl, or for any purpose other than tagging? Hell. Fuck. No.

C-mode is a great test of skill in how classes are 'meant' to be played. Melee Forcing is a great test of skill in how classes are NOT meant to be played... But if Forces are not 'meant' to melee, then why do the following situations occur?

The Newman Forces, online, are usually better suited to tech spamming than attacking with weapons. FOnewm however, can make a decent melee character. That's just the way their stats are set up.

HOWEVER. When we get to the human end of the spectrum, a slight problem springs up, which is this: Human Forces Do Not Do Efficient Tech Damage Online. Both FOmar and especially FOmarl will do better damage with weapons. Far better.

FOmarl has no native useful tech boosts. Grants is fairly uncommon as a tech weakness, and is not cheap. She also sports the lowest MST of the Forces. How is she 'made' to be a tech spammer? She isn't. She's made to be a support whore whose most effective method of attack happens to be fighting with weapons.

FOmar has slightly better MST, and a native damage boost to Gi-type techs.

Allow me to give you an example from the damage calculators here on PSOW:

Assume my FOmar has 990 MST currently. Not much of a stretch, hell, I can get it over 1000 easily, but anyway. Assume he's for some stupid reason using a Magical Piece to slow himself down casting-wise. Assume we're in Ult Mines online, and he just used L29 Gifoie on a Canadin. Ok, he just did 351 damage. This is in line with what I remember happening on the occasions I tried using damage techs.

Now let's assume, correctly, that my FOmar currently has 885 base ATP, that he is using a Soul Banish +9, and that he is of course properly keeping up the L30 S/D/J/Z. He is attacking the same Canabin, and he does not have %s on that Banish. Here are PSOW's numbers for this, which correlate with my own experience:

Normal hit - 240
Normal critical - 361
Heavy hit - 455
Heavy critical - 682

Factor in that attacking with a Partisan is far quicker than attacking with Gifoie, which is more or less the slowest technique, period, and it's pretty damned obvious that a FOmar has no business being a TECH Force. And yes, the FOmar CAN hit that Canabin. XP

So. There are melee Forces, they can be hellishly effective, and you have only ever played with stupid dumbass 'melee' FOs to have your ignorant attitude towards them.

[Sitka]

Well Ian, you have good arguments and you back them up.

Relative to the personal nature of some of the comments, understood and no comment.

I've expressed my opinion and you've expressed yours.

Thank you.

[anwserman]

Just wanted to point out that I have Bacon, Asia and Sanzo's card, and I play with once in a while when I actually do play PSO.

No, I don't consider them dipshits but you obviously haven't played with me. You repsect and play with Bacon, and do I - he is one of the best PSO players I've met. And he tells people that, "I somehow pull off a melee FOnewearl." Yes, I might not be using the most capable character for physical attacks, but I've saved many people in Ultimate Seabed because of my physical attacks and on occasion, magic. Same here, many HUmars have saved me with their attacks and with Resta if I got gangbanged and frozen. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

It all depends on how you play essentially. This wasn't supposed to be a huge debate about a FOnewearl attacking an enemy with a saber; no, it was supposed to be a rough guide that I can improve on for guiding other people who might want to take up the challenge of a melee FOnewearl.

And like Ian said, this isn't C-Mode I'm talking about here. My FOnewearl, Kelli, has about 400 hours logged on her and is currently level 142, and she's my most favorite character because of the fact that she's so difficult to play as. But yes, I do agree that for C-Mode it would be worthless for a FOnewearl to melee.

Debate over? Please? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Sitka]

We are in agreement Answerman.

My attempt was simply to voice a point of view - that was all.

I don't want to flame anyone and I sure as hell don't like being flamed.

If you've rolled with those fellows, then you're pretty good in my book and I hope to get the chance to play with you at some point.

And you are more than entitled to have a sticky about melee FOnewearls, so I apologize if my point of view was taken as badly as some people seem to have taken it.

I don't understand why there is such a need on some parts to launch personal attacks against posters simply giving their viewpoint. As I am sure some will undoubtedly be grateful, I'm signing off for a while.

But, if you get to xbox PSO, look me up - I'd enjoy playing with you for sure.

[anwserman]

Gamertag is anwserman, and PSO-X is currently residing in my disc tray. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[RicoRoyal]

Glad to see all of that got cleared up http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif. Now how about that guide of yours, anwserman? You haven't added any of my recommendations (except for Plantain Huge Leaf Twin Chakram that was posted by someone else as well). This thread is here so that we can improve upon your guide; as such, I think you should add the Red Saber and Plantain Huge Fan to the list of FOnewearl's weapons. You can forget about the G-Assassin Sabers... foolisness to think of it with it's pathetic ATA; sorry for ever mentioning it.


I will now repeat what I said earlier:
FOnewearl ATA is almost equal to HUcast ATA. You should not stress over finding Hit% on weapons in your guide so much.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RicoRoyal on 2004-08-04 14:44 ]</font>

[anwserman]

I'm going to do some tower runs with my HUnewearl to see if I can get some partisan-type weapons and see how my FOnewearl deals with 'em.

I'll check back to see if any good rares drop.

[gream-green]

On 2004-08-04 11:38, Ian-KunX wrote:
Ok, gream is obviously ignorant, whether you think so or not, if he/she claims that there is no such thing as a melee Force.


Okay you need to shut the fuck up, you certainly don't need to call me ignorant in a discussion I am not participating in. If you would like to discuss my philosophies surrounding force(s) you can talk to me as you have no idea what you are talking about which in fact makes you the ignorant one. Force are just forces moron.

[anwserman]

On 2004-08-06 13:48, gream-green wrote:


On 2004-08-04 11:38, Ian-KunX wrote:
Ok, gream is obviously ignorant, whether you think so or not, if he/she claims that there is no such thing as a melee Force.


Okay you need to shut the fuck up, you certainly don't need to call me ignorant in a discussion I am not participating in. If you would like to discuss my philosophies surrounding force(s) you can talk to me as you have no idea what you are talking about which in fact makes you the ignorant one. Force are just forces moron.



Take your arguments to the PMs, not the forum.
I don't want this thread to get locked because I need to update my guide still.

Need to work on Madam's Umbrella... hmmm.

[Tycho]

On 2004-08-03 12:32, anwserman wrote:

D) you're willing to play with a difficult, yet rewarding, character.


May I question this again?
I still don't really see how meeleing on a fonewearl is rewarding.

Your most important job as a force is supporting, this is what will help your team the most. Offline, the enemy tech resistances are quite lower than on. This makes nuking an effective way to clear offline, with simple techs, gi- or ra- spells, or just megid.
So here, I doubt if meleeing would be more rewarding. One of my points being, a foney is fragile. Going in melee, you will risk your life with a fonewearl, big time. In this case being cheap and casting spells from a distance is convenient.
No less atp as in guns and rangers opposed to hu weapons and hu's, and still no missing.

As Ian noted, supporting, online, is hard. I have learned some things from your guide, like having J/Z on the standard buttons. You still are by far my superior, but if only I would get an umbrella and risk my life more by distracting enemies (apart from stunning them with spells), I'll be improving a lot.

Supporting is not a full-time job however; not every second there is someone in need of healing. Thus, Fo's should do damage as well. For a fonewearl, it's far more convenient to use techs, her stats made it that way. Also, since supporting consists of techs as well, you can concentrate your mats on less stats, and it will be easier to choose an equipment that's effective all the time.
For as we know, it's also not a good thing to have spare weapons and armor on your character to be able to switch, because of the FSODs.
Yes, it still is possible to run to the bank every time you start or leave a game.

But you said Fonewearls would do an average of 300 damage per hit, or something like that? Everything included, my MST is about 1500, and I'm only L153. My simple techs do 500 damage on average I think, because of the high resistances. I do use Summit Moon, but atm no merges. This could be less on enemies with higher resistances like in ep2, but in general they have higher evasion as well. And if we're not taking all the big badass monsters into consideration (like Bringers and Tower enemies), Megid does work ok in ep2. So even here, I think meleeing would not be that much of an advantage.

In c-mode you don't really get rares, so it's about impossible to melee with a foney. I know it's still a good way to get some easy xp, but in this case it's just too risky unless you've become proficient at dodging, AND know all the maps and enemies.

Meleeing to make sure you don't have to go to P2 all the time to get new fluids? I don't think so. I never have to go to P2 just to get new trifluids. Online it's even harder to lose all your tp, with 2500 tp, 10 trifluids, and a good team.

So unless you're reeeally bored, I don't think it's worth it.
The bank account shouldn't be a problem either. Is there anything more usefull to do with your money than buying trifluids? No, unless your stealing the money with your other characters, are raising 20 mags (like I am atm, lol), or if you need it for charge. And charge is only if you're meleeing. Or in the mechguns' case, more like ranging with a crap range weapon. With crap referring to the range, not to the weapon.
At lower levels I thought the fluids were expensive, now it's not a problem at all. Just pick up a few expensive weapons / armors per run, and you're good to go. The money you get from TTF more than compensates for the fluid costs as well. And if you're a good support and in a good team, they would pay your fluids anytime for you, if needed.

Fonewms do indeed have an edge with they're Ra-spells. But, I still think Fonewearls are more usefull. Fonewms don't have any support boosts, and as I said before, for your team, supporting is the most usefull job of a Fo. And foneys make up for their lack of Ra-spell boost, with their high tp, AND their great boosts for simple techs, and their slight megid advantage.

I think it's a pity Fomars don't have that great accuracy. And the need of a Resta merge (with crappy stats) isn't really convenient in melee. Don't tell me you don't need Resta, you'll need it a lot at harder levels with uber spawns.
For both the male forces, it's really too bad they can't make too much use of they're quicker casting ability, if they were to compete with the female Forces. Not wearing weapons that help support techiques gives them a disadvantage at the same time. Same for melee Fo's.
If you can get a Psycho wand, I think fonewearl is good competition for a Fonewm. The Fonewm has to choose, either doing less damage even with Ra spells, or having the faster casting as their only edge over the newearl, AND having crappy support abilities (but still, you could use a Resta merge).


I guess meleeing could work for the human Fo's, especially since they will have less mat problems from being a hybrid character.
But choosing a tech character and using it as one is just my personal taste. I just wanted to be a FO FO, not a HU FO or a RA FO.

I don't care about playing a character the way it was meant to be played, I do care about trying to get the most out of my character for the team. Thats what I personally think most important.

[Solstis]

Some people may need to rethink their definition of "rewarding."

The point of the game is to not suit everyone else's needs (though anwserman's fonewearl does with j/z, s/d, and resta), but to have fun yourself.

A few people brought up the: "OMGWTF, FORCES, LIEK, AER FUR TECH SPAMMING!" argument. That's great, but ST left enough room to play the game however you wanted to. There isn't a rule in the books of PSO that say you MUST use a Hunter for melee, a Ranger for ranged, and a Force for techniques.

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Tycho]

I don't really spam techniques or anything. Most of the time I'm busy supporting.
That's fun for me, getting to hear 'thank you!' from people every time. People will like you for it. That's why supporting is the most fun job there is in pso for me.
People who like to have a support fo on their team, make me love this job. And that 'people who', covers about all hu's and ra's, and maybe even some lonely fo's.
Being an evil cast and doing omfgleet damage, would never allow me to have such fun, even if I would 'own' more.

[RedSchwar]

It is illogical to use a character for anything other than what it was optimally designed for. Meleeing with a FOnewearl, while being a great show of personal versatility, is not the best thing to do for a team. Thus, making the guide to using one to melee isn't entirely necessary.

I guess if you wanna do it just to screw around then knock yourself out.

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-08-15 13:30, RedSchwar wrote:
It is illogical to use a character for anything other than what it was optimally designed for. Meleeing with a FOnewearl, while being a great show of personal versatility, is not the best thing to do for a team. Thus, making the guide to using one to melee isn't entirely necessary.

I guess if you wanna do it just to screw around then knock yourself out.


Melee FOrces #1 job is to support the team; which is the exact same idea for any FOrce (see Ian's guide). The FOnewearl supports first, them attacks later.

Actually, meleeing with a FOrce is a great thing to do for a team:
1) Extra damage. Damage techs are near useless online.
2) Saves precious TP for supporting. Especially true when you have a low level Resta (meaning lots of casts needed), and/or playing in Caves/Temple and you need to continually cast Anti (for paralysis or poison), and Reverser (for death by Megid by people too "stupid" to sacrifice a few slots to protect themselves).
3) Melee FOrces generally are the best support FOrces.

And anyways, there is no legally binding contract that makes you play a class the way it was meant to be played. Some people like to melee with RAmarls and RAmars (and I believe that RAmarls can melee better than many HUnters). He also said this guide was for certain types of people.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-08-16 16:44 ]</font>

[anwserman]

And the fact that the guide is far from finished, and still needs work. *eyes up Winifred*

She's my guide-FOnewearl. I'm raising her to see how well it works out with my guide; she's level 30 right now with a Soul Eater, doing about 100 damage on Hard Mode.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-08-15 16:15, anwserman wrote:
And the fact that the guide is far from finished, and still needs work. *eyes up Winifred*

She's my guide-FOnewearl. I'm raising her to see how well it works out with my guide; she's level 30 right now with a Soul Eater, doing about 100 damage on Hard Mode.



...While my FOmar on BB under similar conditions does 250... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif He DOES have a 5/135/60/0 Mag, though. XP

Seriously, while a melee Force can be a good thing... FOnewearl truly isn't cut out for it, unlike the human Forces, her melee damage can never outpace her tech damage. A FOmar might be able to out-do his tech damage with weapons online, but a FOnewearl can't. Neither, for that matter, can a FOnewm, really. The newman FOs truly ARE better off doing tech damage, so if you want what's most useful to the team, brush up on your tech weaknesses and start casting a few spells... AFTER you finish supporting, of course.

Not to say that it's not a fun diversion. But it's about as effective in the long run as a tech HUmar. ...Which I've done, and it's cute for a little while, big burly HUmar with his weapons and lots of ATP and puny MST and L15 techs running around with a MIND mag and a merge, trying to tech stuff to death, but after a while you realize that not only is it not what the character is meant to do, but that the character is also not at ALL suited to it, and that you can't even really stretch it to do that like you can with the human Forces and HUnewearl/RAmarl. *shrug*

[Tycho]

On 2004-08-15 13:46, Ketchup345 wrote:

Melee FOrces #1 job is to support the team; which is the exact same idea for any FOrce (see Ian's guide). The FOnewearl supports first, them attacks later.

Actually, meleeing with a FOrce is a great thing to do for a team:
1) Extra damage. Damage techs are near useless online.
2) Saves precious TP for supporting. Especially true when you have a low level Resta (meaning lots of casts needed), and/or playing in Caves/Temple and you need to continually cast Anti (for paralysis or poison), and Reverser (for death by Megid by people too "stupid" to sacrifice a few slots to protect themselves).
3) Melee FOrces generally are the best support FOrces.

And anyways, there is no legally binding contract that makes you play a class the way it was meant to be played. Some people like to melee with RAmarls and RAmars (and I believe that RAmarls can melee better than many HUnters). He also said this guide was for certain types of people.



I respect your opinion, but will again comment on it. At first, I think it'd completely irrelevant to say melee forces are generally the best support forces. What you mean is, only really experienced players will melee with a fonewearl, so the people who do melee with her know their jobs. So I think this has to do rather with the player's experience, than what job the Fonewearl in question does beside supporting.
Second, I will say it again: TP, is not an issue. Maybe for a humar doing such a job it would be, but we're talking about fonewearls here, this is a completely different case. In one run, Fonls don't use all their tp times eleven (assuming they have 10 trifluids on them, and find nothing, and dont use an alternate tp recovery method).

And I'll second Ian too, Fonewearls don't do more damage be meleeing than with techs. And it's indeed another issue than human forces, huneys and human rangers. Fomars and Hunewearls obviously are hybrid characters, whereas the Foney is not.

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-08-16 16:40, Tycho wrote:
I respect your opinion, but will again comment on it. At first, I think it'd completely irrelevant to say melee forces are generally the best support forces. What you mean is, only really experienced players will melee with a fonewearl, so the people who do melee with her know their jobs. So I think this has to do rather with the player's experience, than what job the Fonewearl in question does beside supporting.
Second, I will say it again: TP, is not an issue. Maybe for a humar doing such a job it would be, but we're talking about fonewearls here, this is a completely different case. In one run, Fonls don't use all their tp times eleven (assuming they have 10 trifluids on them, and find nothing, and dont use an alternate tp recovery method).

And I'll second Ian too, Fonewearls don't do more damage be meleeing than with techs. And it's indeed another issue than human forces, huneys and human rangers. Fomars and Hunewearls obviously are hybrid characters, whereas the Foney is not.


1) Melee FOrces are generally the best Support FOrces due to them knowing the insane importance of casting Shifta/Deband/Jellen/Zalure before doing any damage and how important a Resta is at certain areas.
2) TP can be an issue if you don't use TP regen methods besides *fluids, especially if they cast high TP techs often (such as Megid, you get a little less than 2 casts per 100 TP). This is especially true if you don't carryu a full compliment of *fluids. And cast support techs at every single group of enemies (especially in rooms with several waves of enemies).
3) They may not do more damage, but they can conserve *fluids for other times, and can add some fun to the player's experiance.
4) HUnewearls and RAmarls do not make that great casters. They are mediocre at it, but they would do much better damage with their weapons (generally).

This game does allow you to play any character however you want (you can even make a teching android, though it would be an insane challenge). Like said, this is for fun and for a challenge.


Hmm...
I'm off to make a guide for Teching Androids! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Alli]

Wow... I'm into this whole debate a little late (I haven't been to the forums in a little while so this is the first time I'm seeing this!) but since my primary character is a level 180 FOnie I'd like to comment on the whole "melee force" thing.

I've been playing PSO back since the early days when the very first Dreamcast version came out. I remember that in the first PSO, Sega still hadn't quite balanced all the character stats just yet, and it was pretty easy to melee as a FOnewearl. In fact, that was all I did with my FOnie, aside from supporting, of course. I remember raising hell with a Kaldbolg (of all things!) and a double saber, and keeping up with the HU's quite admirably. The special on the double saber made it nice and easy for me to S/D/J/Z/Resta constantly and never need fluids, all the while dealing out decent damage without ever releasing a single Foie.

Now with the latest version of PSO, Sega's made it much more challenging to melee as a FOnewearl, since their stats past level 100 are at a distinct disadvantage when compared with HU's. When I tried my melee'ing in Ep2, it was pretty decent up until I got into Ult, where I quickly got my booty handed to me. I realized that I would have to re-think my whole playing style / strategy. I became a solely tech'ing / support FOnie, out of the necessity of being useful to my team.

As a side note, I've tried other characters, both Hunters and Rangers, and found that I love playing Forces the best, simply BECAUSE of the challenge they present. For this challenge alone would I recommend attempting to play a melee FOnewearl - ONLY if you ENJOY the difficulty and skill required for playing a Force, compounded with playing one in a way they weren't designed for. The reason I was drawn to this thread was because I still long for this challenge and would like to melee again, while not making an @$$ of myself and holding back my team. I can still melee just fine offline - the enemies are significantly weaker and fewer in number, and even the formidable Chaos Bringer's attack doesn't phase me offline. But it's been a while since I could melee effectively online without being a nuisance to my team-mates.

So in-all, thanks for making this guide, answerman, and thanks to all the people who helped contribute to it... I'll try my hand again at melee'ing, keeping my mind open to the different styles / possibilities of playing. I'm tired of tech-spamming all the time and long to see the glitter when I swing my cane around! ^_~ But of course, above all else I am a supporter at heart, so if it does come down to a choice between melee'ing and supporting, you know which one I'll choose! But hopefully, with the help of this guide, I can still do both!

[Tycho]

See? Alli tried and says so too, it's not really doable on ult. :/ If you want a challenge and meleeing anyway, just use the usual equipment and mag/mats, and maybe only switch to Chao Stick when needed, and only waste on button to attack. Try to melee that way, you wouldn't waste much, and that way it's a challenge. ;o

Ketchup, personally I think it's more like:



On 2004-08-15 13:46, Ketchup345 wrote:

Actually, meleeing with a FOrce is a great thing to do for a team:
1) Extra damage. Damage techs are near useless online.
2) Saves precious TP for supporting. Especially true when you have a low level Resta (meaning lots of casts needed), and/or playing in Caves/Temple and you need to continually cast Anti (for paralysis or poison), and Reverser (for death by Megid by people too "stupid" to sacrifice a few slots to protect themselves).
3) Melee FOrces generally are the best support FOrces.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-08-16 16:44 ]</font>


http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif

[Nai_Calus]

Tycho: You must play with Zero when I'm not half asleep. XP He's a fscking HUmar with L30 support techs. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif (Ok, his Deband is L29, I need to drag out the Wizard/Technique again. XP) Ketchup's right about melee Forces, at least in the hands of the competent. >_> Even, I suppose, a FOnewearl, although at that point you may just be damage canceling. XP

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-04 10:25, Tycho wrote:
See? Alli tried and says so too, it's not really doable on ult. :/ If you want a challenge and meleeing anyway, just use the usual equipment and mag/mats, and maybe only switch to Chao Stick when needed, and only waste on button to attack. Try to melee that way, you wouldn't waste much, and that way it's a challenge. ;o

Ketchup, personally I think it's more like:



On 2004-08-15 13:46, Ketchup345 wrote:

Actually, meleeing with a FOrce is a great thing to do for a team:
1) Extra damage. Damage techs are near useless online.
2) Saves precious TP for supporting. Especially true when you have a low level Resta (meaning lots of casts needed), and/or playing in Caves/Temple and you need to continually cast Anti (for paralysis or poison), and Reverser (for death by Megid by people too "stupid" to sacrifice a few slots to protect themselves).
3) Melee FOrces generally are the best support FOrces.

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif


Alli said it was possible, just on the difficult side.

So you are basically saying that melee FOrces are useless and don't help the team much at all?

1) Tech resist are greatly increased online. Melee can sometimes do more damage than techs.
2) I'd rather try to go without using as many *fluids in a game, due to how annoying the shops are (due to the save mostly), and the cost, since I could use that money to help raise one of my dozen or so Mags that are still being leveled.
3) Why are melee FOrces less effective at support than non-melee? Even people who don't have much experiance at the game will realize very quickly how useful Shifta/Deband/Jellen/Zalure are if they melee with a FOrce; they will most likely learn this importance much faster than someone playing a RAmarl or HUnewearl.

I guess you didn't read the post I made on the 16th though, since I did back up these thoughts in that post.

And some people do like to have a challenge. Challenge mode isn't too challenging besides some certain points (Gol dragon, Gal Griffon, etc.), and just using the Striker of Chao is kind of boring because you are only using one melee weapon that is not useful much at all (compared to a Soul Eater, or a more powerful Saber type or a Dagger like the Twin Chakram).

[Alli]

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif What Ketchup said... I didn't say that it wasn't do-able in Ult, I said that at the time, when I was first starting out, I was still new to Ult and found it much easier just to tech-spam everything.

Please don't use my post to support your argument that melee forces are inviable, because if you'd actually read my entire post, at the bottom I explained that THANKS to this guide, I am currently learning to melee again (which, in my opinion, is a lot more fun than lighting up the screen with a bunch of Rafoies)... I repeat that it IS CHALLENGING, but that is what makes it FUN. That is also what makes it only suitable for already experienced FOnies... so maybe this thread should come with a huge warning at the top, like:

*** WARNING: DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU ARE ALREADY AN EXPERT SUPPORT FO AND ARE LOOKING FOR A CHALLENGE ***

As was said many times, melee'ing FOnies is NOT for everyone, nor is it even for most people... I've only met a select few who can pull it off well. This guide is to aide those few people, so if you think it is impossible, then it probably is for you.

Again as Ketchup stated, GOOD Melee FOnies definitely know the value of S/D/J/Z, even moreso than a solely tech'ing FOnie (I never cast Shifta or Zalure when I solo because they are absolutely ineffectual for a tech user). When I solo, I replace my Zalure button with Megid (or other stuff depending on the area), but if I melee it can just as easily be replaced with an attack button.

It's interesting to see that there is such a controversy about this... I'm tempted to revert to the old phrase "you can play any way you want to", but of course if you're a big nuisance, you won't be able to find anyone to play with (except on Vega). But that is the whole point of this thread - to make it so that us skilled FOnies can have fun and try a new way of playing without pissing off our teammates too much. And, based on some of the observations already mentioned in this thread, melee FOnies may be MORE useful in some situations due to high tech resistances online.

I'm always searching for more efficient ways to play - I've tried the whole merge-swapping and Fire Scepter / Ice Staff / etc for tech boosts; some people swear by this while others scoff at it... it's all opinion and how you enjoy playing. Meleeing is simply another method which can be effective or ineffective depending on the given situation and skill of the player. It's usually a combination of varied methods and strategies that lead to the most skilled and well-rounded players - meleeing is just one aspect of this, which deserves being discussed.

[Tycho]

1) Tech resist are greatly increased online. Melee can sometimes do more damage than techs.
2) I'd rather try to go without using as many *fluids in a game, due to how annoying the shops are (due to the save mostly), and the cost, since I could use that money to help raise one of my dozen or so Mags that are still being leveled.
3) Why are melee FOrces less effective at support than non-melee? Even people who don't have much experiance at the game will realize very quickly how useful Shifta/Deband/Jellen/Zalure are if they melee with a FOrce; they will most likely learn this importance much faster than someone playing a RAmarl or HUnewearl.

I guess you didn't read the post I made on the 16th though, since I did back up these thoughts in that post.

And some people do like to have a challenge. Challenge mode isn't too challenging besides some certain points (Gol dragon, Gal Griffon, etc.), and just using the Striker of Chao is kind of boring because you are only using one melee weapon that is not useful much at all (compared to a Soul Eater, or a more powerful Saber type or a Dagger like the Twin Chakram).


I never said spamming techs for damage was good in the first place. With Rabarta and Megid a FOnewearl would do better online in teamplay, than by trying to damage stuff. You keep assuming I think it's a good thing to do so. Ofcourse it's not. Not only is a FOnewearl all that useful to melee (in Ult), damage techs too are indeed inferior to HU damage.
With the whole challenge thing, I assume you are not aiming this guide at newbies. Thus, I think you should have some spare meseta to at least be able to buy Fluids. It's not that hard to get. Did you read the part in Ian's guide about picking up Blue Boxes (non-units)? Try it. It works.
And ofcourse as long as you don't know the importance of J/Z you shouldn't a Force, you would only piss off other people. A Humar would be good to learn the game. But still I think learning to shouldn't really be done on a Melee FOnewearl; the guide even started saying it was aimed at experienced players.
And if you want a real challenge by handicapping yourself, why would you care if you did not have a great weapon? ;o



On 2004-09-04 16:17, Alli wrote:
http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif What Ketchup said... I didn't say that it wasn't do-able in Ult, I said that at the time, when I was first starting out, I was still new to Ult and found it much easier just to tech-spam everything.

Please don't use my post to support your argument that melee forces are inviable, because if you'd actually read my entire post, at the bottom I explained that THANKS to this guide, I am currently learning to melee again (which, in my opinion, is a lot more fun than lighting up the screen with a bunch of Rafoies)... I repeat that it IS CHALLENGING, but that is what makes it FUN. That is also what makes it only suitable for already experienced FOnies... so maybe this thread should come with a huge warning at the top, like:

*** WARNING: DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU ARE ALREADY AN EXPERT SUPPORT FO AND ARE LOOKING FOR A CHALLENGE ***

As was said many times, melee'ing FOnies is NOT for everyone, nor is it even for most people... I've only met a select few who can pull it off well. This guide is to aide those few people, so if you think it is impossible, then it probably is for you.

Again as Ketchup stated, GOOD Melee FOnies definitely know the value of S/D/J/Z, even moreso than a solely tech'ing FOnie (I never cast Shifta or Zalure when I solo because they are absolutely ineffectual for a tech user). When I solo, I replace my Zalure button with Megid (or other stuff depending on the area), but if I melee it can just as easily be replaced with an attack button.

It's interesting to see that there is such a controversy about this... I'm tempted to revert to the old phrase "you can play any way you want to", but of course if you're a big nuisance, you won't be able to find anyone to play with (except on Vega). But that is the whole point of this thread - to make it so that us skilled FOnies can have fun and try a new way of playing without pissing off our teammates too much. And, based on some of the observations already mentioned in this thread, melee FOnies may be MORE useful in some situations due to high tech resistances online.

I'm always searching for more efficient ways to play - I've tried the whole merge-swapping and Fire Scepter / Ice Staff / etc for tech boosts; some people swear by this while others scoff at it... it's all opinion and how you enjoy playing. Meleeing is simply another method which can be effective or ineffective depending on the given situation and skill of the player. It's usually a combination of varied methods and strategies that lead to the most skilled and well-rounded players - meleeing is just one aspect of this, which deserves being discussed.



Again.. you're missing my point, I never said tech-damage was good. :/
And again you're talking about the "Melee FO's are smarter" thing. So. Someone would make a Melee FO (or just a HU), and will learn the importance of J/Z. I learnt just by trying to, and check how much more damage by teammates did, and how much less damage I received.
But either way, it's not really hard. By the time a player understands the point of this; this would not make a valid argument anymore. After acknowledging this, why not revert to the pure FO again?

To make it short:

- Megid / Freezing > FOnewearl Melee damage. Attack techs have nothing to do with this.

-Meseta ought not be a problem. Go level, use a Mind mag, and pick up blue boxes. One blue box in Ult covers more than the cost of one trifluid.

[Skorpius]

Why can't you megid/rabarta while holding a soul eater. Tycho?
I would think you could do that.

[haruna]

Hmm, if someone was so lucky as to get a Madam's Parasol, that Spirit special would own!

It's a pity that the store doesn't sell Spirit vulcans with 50% hit. Then again, maybe I'm not a high enough level to buy such an item? Who knows.
If I had photon drops to waste, I'd consider slapping Spirit on my S-rank vulcans.

One day, I decided to be really really silly and give my level 131 FOnewerl a Del Saber's Buster.
She was definitely better off with the Grass Assasin's arms. Ideally, I could get a Magic Stone Iritista, buy some form of slicer with 50% in hit and 1 other area or maybe even get lucky and find a generic slicer-type weapon with good %s.
A friend of mine scored a diska with 40% machine 60% hit from a box.

[Tycho]

Skorpius, why bother holding a Soul Eater while doing so? I don't see how that would help.
How about holding a Psycho Wand or a Marina's Bag, and temporarily switch to a Chao Stick when it would be appropriate to?

Haruna: You can buy Vulcans from the shops when you reach level 151 I think. Go pipe them. Oh, and, spirit is NOT better on a FO. It's best on a Humar. It drains a set percent of your total TP I think, and a HUmar could restore his whole bar with a Difluid. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Kyo_X]

The tech resistance has increased greatly in ultimate. I got my Lvl 63 FOnewearl in ultimate a couple of days ago. Her techs are Lvl 28 and were'nt doing enough damage.Melee combat would be better suited. I don't have a twin chakram because every time a Tollaw drops a red box it's a photon drop.

[RedSchwar]

I really don't get why this is stickied. Is the creator of the thread a moderator? I smell narcissism.

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-21 11:14, RedSchwar wrote:
I really don't get why this is stickied. Is the creator of the thread a moderator? I smell narcissism.


The creater is not a mod.

Its just that a lot of guides to be are now threads, and Lollypop or Salad haven't added/changed guides/excavation reports in ages. Guides to be have to be stickied to keep them availible for when Lolly or Salad come back, or someone replaces them.

Once this is an official guide though, it will be unstickied.

[Tycho]

Red Schwar: This topic is useful for anyone who would want to make a melee FOnewearl, and is therefore stickied. I suppose the being useless of melee'ing on a Foney hasn't got much to do with that. (: (And Answerman is not a mod.)



On 2004-09-20 18:46, neotempestt wrote:
The tech resistance has increased greatly in ultimate. I got my Lvl 63 FOnewearl in ultimate a couple of days ago. Her techs are Lvl 28 and were'nt doing enough damage.Melee combat would be better suited. I don't have a twin chakram because every time a Tollaw drops a red box it's a photon drop.



No, no, no. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif
On a FOnewearl, offline, nuking is much more effective than meleeing. Ask anyone here. And at lower levels, techs are more effective than weapons to do damage; but at higher levels, and with uber equipments and everything, the tides will turn, and meleeing has more potential and effectiveness. But offline nuking is still good, and FO's just cant equip any of the really good weapons. That's why you're a FO.
At your level, I doubt you would do any more damage by meleeing. Go level, and stick with your playstyle for at least 50 more levels.

[_Sinue_]

On a FOnewearl, offline, nuking is much more effective than meleeing.

Offline nuking is more effective for any FO character - regardless of their melee prowess.. or lack thereof.


And at lower levels, techs are more effective than weapons to do damage

I would have to agree with that. Expecially since at the lower levels, your support skills are usually neglegable and limited. As someone said earlier, it's usually the melee FO's who are the best supporters. At least the surviving melee FO's. At lower levels, you can really help the team best by using attack techs, and the more important support spells for HU's and RA's - namely Resta and Shifta/Deban. Personally I used techs with my melee FOnewearl up until around level 80 when I started to find the higher level spell disks, and my stats were beginning to get up to par for meleeing.


What you mean is, only really experienced players will melee with a fonewearl, so the people who do melee with her know their jobs. So I think this has to do rather with the player's experience

Speaking from personal experience, I learned early on that if you're not casting S/D and J/Z - you're as good as dead. You simply cannot go toe to toe with the enemies in the higher Ultimate levels without these spells. Also of note, is that your HUmar and RAmar companions tend to make excellent meat-sheilds and diversions for the enemy. A FOnewearl's best chance to do melee damage, is from behind a monster where she cannot get attacked. This allows you to pull off a full set of combos with weapons like Daggers without having to worry about the threat of counter-attack. So it makes sence to take care of your companions who have the HP and DEF to be your punching-bag.


The reason I was drawn to this thread was because I still long for this challenge and would like to melee again, while not making an @$$ of myself and holding back my team.

It's still possible. Personally, I think it's quite a bit easier than in Dreamcast v.2 now that Ultimate mode has been severely nerfed. The only problems I have now are in Online Ultimate Seabed. There I will resort to casting megid almost constantly - but then again.. that's partly because Megid is just so damned effective there compaired to your other techs on other monsters.


Again as Ketchup stated, GOOD Melee FOnies definitely know the value of S/D/J/Z, even moreso than a solely tech'ing FOnie

Hah, I'm actually a bit of an ass when it comes to support techs in a team. I tend to take on the full responsibility of them. Mainly this is because I know that if I leave the responsibility in someone else's hands.. they'll drop the ball on me. I NEED those spells to be effective in combat, and I cannot afford to let someone else slip up and let a wave of Delsabers slide in un-jellened. I don't mean to insult any of my past gaming buds.. I'm just a control freak that way.


- Megid / Freezing > FOnewearl Melee damage. Attack techs have nothing to do with this.

I actually fully endorse the use of Techs with a melee FOnewearl. You ARE a FO, after all, and to not use your techs to gain a strategic advantage is kinda dumb. Melee may be my primary form of attack, but I still fully realize the potential of my Techs. Megid is a must in the Seabed. Foie is a must for the Sil Dragon when he's in the air, or Falz when he's invincable. RAbarta is a must for it's freezing effect. Don't ignore your offensive techs. Being a Melee FO just means you don't depend on them as a primary means of attack.


And a FOnewearl doing 2,000 damage per swing? I never have hit that much with a Red Saber swing, maybe 200 or 300

2,000 a swing? That seems a bit excessive. My personal best is breaking the 1,000 dmg mark per swing with my Red Saber and Soul Eater's Beserk special. It's not a constant mark, mind you.. just on critical hits. Thankfully my 100 Luck means at least 1 swing out of a combo will usually be critical. If not 2. Per combo, I can average about 2,500 damamge with my Red Saber. With my Pan-Arm Blades, I can average about 3,000 damage per combo. And no.. I don't cheat.

---------------------------------------

Answerman.. I'm surprised that for as long as I've been advocating melee FOnewearls, you and everyone forgot to mention me. I thought I was a bit of a trend-setter there for awhile. I did a few things different than you mentioned in your guide. First off, I fed her a strict regiment of only Luck, HP, and Power mats. The reason being, that most of your game-time is going to be spent under level 200. Higher ATP earlier on, means you'll be a more effective melee character early on. The only other vital stat to a FOnewearl is her MST - which takes a back-seat once you decide to make her a melee character.

As far as Mags go, I found that you'll usually want to make about three mags over your FOnewearl's career. Firstly, she'll need a good Mind Mag to get her to about lvl 80 when she starts really becomming effective at melee. Her second mag should be a Power/Dex mag, with more focus centered on ATP than Dex. This is execially important in Ultimate when you'll need the extra Dex to hit enemies. Her last mag should be a Mind/Dex mag, to round off her abilities in the later levels of her career.

That's the formula I've been using so far, and it's worked very good up to this point. Hope it helps. Later on man!

[Tycho]

Speaking from personal experience, I learned early on that if you're not casting S/D and J/Z - you're as good as dead. You simply cannot go toe to toe with the enemies in the higher Ultimate levels without these spells. Also of note, is that your HUmar and RAmar companions tend to make excellent meat-sheilds and diversions for the enemy. A FOnewearl's best chance to do melee damage, is from behind a monster where she cannot get attacked. This allows you to pull off a full set of combos with weapons like Daggers without having to worry about the threat of counter-attack. So it makes sence to take care of your companions who have the HP and DEF to be your punching-bag.



It just doesn't explain why people prejudice Non-melee FOs of not being able to support. I used melee in my offline lower levels actually, because I thought it more effective since fluids were expensive. But then again that might have had to do with the fact I was still raising my current mag, and only had a power one.

But does this mean I would not be able to live up to the expectations of my job, because I don't use weapons to do physical damage?
I think not. When I was online for about a week, before I started getting active here in PSOW, some people in Vega pointed me out beside Resta, S/D and nuking I should use J/Z a lot. I've done my best to do so ever since, and know the importance.

I'm not a melee FOrce. But I know how to be of use in the only challenging quest in the game. x.x;
Ask people. :/

[cicatrizesp01]

i was a melee FOneweral from the last leg of psov1 and 2 and the begining of ep 1n2 on gc....roughly 3.5 years experience as a melee FOnie......back in v1 the best combo of weap and mag for me was the Double Saber and an ata/pow mag...the dbl saber special sucked up plenty of tp and made my use for fluids near irrelevent. I tired doing the same thing in v2 but with the addition of Ultimate the double saber needed to wait untill much higer levels to be effective...the special attack had just way to low hit...still with my ata/pow mag (also since you are a force always keep a mind mag in the bank for some bosses) i just kept with what worked when I made my switch to ep 1n2....but i found myself switching weapons once I reached ult ep2....on me at all times in ult ep2 was a double saber for a quick mst drain.....mkb for big dmg and G-assassin blades for a solid combo that hardly missed....also the madams umbrella impressed me very much....i remember when I found that...it was my first real good rare in ep 1n2...that was always on me too....after a good line of baddies got frozen....that umbrella with its sword like abilites has no comparison as a dammage dealer for any melee FOnewearl. As far as armor and shield...i've been using my heart shield and the love armor...that is a great combo that gives you excellent def and evade...especially when you hunt with those male characters you get an extra boost. Luck mats are you friend as well....max those and hp mats....you can never have enough hp.

my main combat when entering a room with baddies:
1.S/D (always perform in each room)
2.Walk in room.
3.Enemies spawn.
4.J/Z (spare no expense with these spells...every wave cast em a couple times)
5.Rabarta x3
6.Hack at frozen enemies. (if none freeze then help out a teammate and get a baddie from behinde or double check your J/Z status)
7.Resta x2or3 (always watch the health meters dont let anyone get past half life on screen...even if you are a melee force...you are still a force so do your job.
8. Repeat.

Thats my mold for the melee FOnewearl.....its not anything genius...just do your part and help out....ya it is tough to start one of these characters and it is very hard to solo melee....but its a freakin online game play with someone!!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cicatrizesp01 on 2004-12-27 09:30 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cicatrizesp01 on 2004-12-27 10:51 ]</font>

[cicatrizesp01]

o btw answerman...if you need any help with your guide or just need some insight from another melee fonie i'll be glad to help out

[thrended]

I'm not sure how it would be possible to be a melee FOnewearl without hurting the team in some way overall. I think it should pretty much be used for personal enjoyment or challenge, when you're bored or having fun in n-vh, or to switch to if you need money (which you shouldn't ;p); along with some of your reasons. Really a FOnewearl shouldn't be dedicated to meleeing by having 45 luck materials fed to them. @_@ And it's not a matter of not being able to be good support at the same time, but that you really can do a lot more damage with techs when in an online or offline game, and it's more important online with other people to do damage. You may be able to survive longer with the same amount of fluids, but the time it takes to pipe back a few times is the time lost when you melee instead of actually contributing damage. However, I think you should of course keep working on this guide. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif I just don't really have anything to contribute. ;p

My guide XD:
Tech RAmar
Fatsia
God/Body x4
5/0/0/195 Dreamcast
132 Def Materials
118 Mind Materials

I've meleed with my FOnl while still leveling to ult once and it was an entertaining relief but kind of pointless. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: thrended on 2005-01-20 19:30 ]</font>

[Neith]

What about the Angel Harp? I believe a Fonewearl can use it, confusing enemies could be handy if you're wanting to melee.