The G.A.M.E. Campaign

[Cannibal-Snowman]

This morning, I read an article about a man named Jack Thompson. Jack here is a lawyer (aka Evil Person) who is trying to bring down Rockstar (makers of GTA and Manhunt). He says that kids play violent video games so that they can "practice killing." Well, it turns out that Mr. Thompson has a website in which he gives out his e-mail address. So, I decided to stop by Mr. Jack's site and drop him an e-mail. This is my e-mail:


I don't know if this e-mail will go directly to Jack Thompson, but I want him to read this.

I am an avid video gamer. I've been playing video games for almost 8 years. I have played almost every type of game out there. Some of those games that I've played are violent. These are the violent video games that I have owned/played:

Doom
Contra
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire
Resident Evil
Grand Theft Auto 3
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Halo
Full Spectrum Warrior
Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy

So, as you can see, I've played some of the most violent games out there. That's not even the full list. I've played more, but I can't remember them (It was either that played it a very long time ago, or I that only played it once). I would also like to point out that of all of those games, I own three of them (Goldeneye, Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire, and Halo). I have been playing these violent games (along with some non-violent games) for 8 years, and I have never gotten the urge to hurt another human being after playing one of them. Why is that? It is because I know that the things we see in these games are not real. I know some of you are probably thinking, "But Grand Theft Auto and Manhunt are real!? They're not, if you think about it. A man cannot walk through a city wielding a huge arsenal of weapons, killing everything he sees (Grand Theft Auto). In real life, the second you fired a bullet, you would have every single cop in the city trying to take you down. The concept behind Manhunt isn't real, either. A man hires you to kill people in the most gruesome ways ever imagined? It could be a movie, but the whole plot is still in no way realistic. Now, I know there are some games out there that are based off of realistic things, such as Call of Duty or Shellshock: Nam '67. Call of Duty has you relive some of the biggest battles in World War 2. Now, of course it has violence, but it's not as bad as some of the other games. You should try playing Call of Duty. It wasn't made so you could "practice killing," but so you could relive World War 2. Shellshock: Nam '67 is different. I don't know if this game is out yet, but I do know that it is a bit more gruesome than Call of Duty. In this game, you are in the Vietnam War (of course). Now, some of the pictures I have seen are a bit more violent than games like Call of Duty, but I'm going to remind you again: It's not real! It's all just computer-generated images! How many times to I have to say that to get it through your thick skull?

If games like Grand Theft Auto and Manhunt were movies, people like you wouldn't be complaining. Why are you blaming everything on videogames? Movies are more realistic than videogames. In movies, there are actual people killing other actual people, unlike videogames. In videogames, it's computer-generated images killing other computer-generated images. Why are you ignoring all the other forms of media? Why do you think videogames are the number one cause for violence?

Try to guess why I play videogames. Go ahead, guess. Is it so I can "practice killing" like you say? Nope. Is it so I can have sex with a hooker, kill her, take her money, and then shotgun a cop in the face? Again, nope. Is it so I can suffocate thugs with plastic bags and kill people in other gruesome and disgusting ways? Yet again, no. I play videogames for a number of reasons:

1. If I'm angry, I play videogames. Believe it or not, playing a videogame when I'm angry actually does the opposite of what you say. Instead, it actually calms me down, no matter how violent.
2. Videogames actually do help you. They give you better hand-eye coordination, and they increase your reaction time.
3. Playing videogames with your friends is an experience like no other. One of the reasons I play videogames is so that I can play them with my friends. We always have a great time playing them. Have you ever been to a LAN party, or a videogame tournament? Of course you haven't. Neither have I, but I did host a small LAN party once. Do you know why people go to these things? Is it to "practice killing" each other? No. They go to these things so they can hang out with their friends, play some videogames, and have a good time. Nobody walks away from one of those angry or filled with violent thoughts.

Now, let's talk about some of the murders that have occurred in the past few years. I'm talking about the cases with Warren Leblanc and Charles McCoy. How do you know that these people were influenced only by videogames? What about other things? What if they were drug addicts or they just suffered a serious loss? Did you ever think about that? Now, before I go on, I would just like to point out that I do not think it was right for those people to be killed. Now that that's out of the way, I'll continue. Those people who committed the violent acts, that's only two people. Do you know how many people play videogames? I don't, but I'm pretty sure it's a big number of people. Almost all video gamers are not like those people. The people who committed those violent acts are the ones who should be punished, not people like me. You should only punish those who commit the crime.

By the way, just so you know, I am 15 years old, and I own a Nintendo 64, Xbox, Gamecube, and PC (of course). I have over 50 games, some of which are M-rated. I have never committed a violent act or been influenced to do one by videogames. Thank you for your time.


So, after a few corrections, I sent it to him. A few minutes later, I got an e-mail back from him. I was very surprised to discover this. I open up the e-mail, expecting a well-written paragraph or two, and this is what I find:


you're still impaired

The above quote was not altered in any way. So, after reading his "well-written and well-thought out" e-mail, I decided to reply again with this (don't worry, it's shorter):


Well, thank you for responding to my e-mail so quickly, although I must say I am quite disappointed with your response. I e-mailed you expecting an intelligent discussion, but apparently, you're just as bad as those people who e-mailed you saying things like "F*ck you" and "I hope you die!" You didn't even captilize the first letter of your sentence, nor did you end it with a punctuation mark.

Also, I am in no way impaired. I am a straight-A student in high school. Can you find anything "impaired" about that? If you think name-calling is going to stop me, you're in for a surprise. You picked the wrong person to mess with.


So, I send it, and again, I get another reply within a few minutes. This is what he had to say:


an intelligent discussion, with YOU?

He also included this (http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2004/db040805.gif newwindow) with the e-mail. Now, I was getting angry. I replied, saying:


Intelligence isn't based on age, it's based on an ability to keep an open mind and to continue learning all your life.

I'm hope I'm never as closed-minded as you.

This time, it took him a little while longer to reply. But finally, once he did, all I got was that stupid comic again. I've stopped e-mailing him, because he doesn't seem to be interested in having an intelligent conversation. Because of this little argument, I have decided to start up the G.A.M.E. Campaign.

What is The G.A.M.E. Campaign, you ask? Simple. It stands for "Games Are Made for Entertainment." Mr. Thompson here stated that people play violent video games so they can "practice killing." I'm creating this campaign to prove that he is wrong, and that he is a dumbass, along with anybody else who agrees with him. My plan is to get as many people as possible to join this campaign. Then, we would start trying to contact some politicians (example: The governor of your state, or the mayor of your city), telling them about this campaign. Our goal would be to convince people like Jack Thompson that videogames are not the cause for violence. A website for the campaign will be created once I have enough people to join.

So, who's with me?

PS: If you don't care about this, don't post in this unless you want to help.

PSS: My gut is telling me that this isn't going to work, but then again, my gut is made of an advanced polymer, and it doesn't know what the hell it's saying. Stupid gut. (RvB rocks, I just got the DVD today!)

[Tycho]

Are you gonna try to remove the insane bad word filter from pso? If so, I'm in http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif. I don't live in the USA though.

[KodiaX987]

Fuck the PC idiots!

It would be quite funny of that guy died from being shot by a GTA addict or something.

[PJ]

I thought a lawyer had to actually go through school... you know, and gain something called, "Intelligence?" http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

But what did he mean by, "You're still impaired?" He didn't even know you, how can you be 'still' impaired?

What I thought was funny though:


On 2004-08-06 05:58, Cannibal-Snowman wrote:
an intelligent discussion, with YOU?

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif He's the one who can't type a proper response...

Although I really wouldn't read too much into this. He's the bigger idiot in the situation, so I wouldn't take him seriously =/

[Tycho]

Indeed, don't take him seriously. If he's being irrational he probably has an other motive for this. He's either trying to make money out of it, or he actually believes what he's saying and it's an emotional issue to him, for whatever reason.

The links didn't work for me, the comic urls.

[Allos]

That guy is a jackass.

[Sciler]

People like him seem to forget that the people who DO commit violent acts, usually have issues LONG before they play any games, the parents just neglect to pay attention to them,so unfortunately someone in the end gets hurt. Am I a fan of the GTA series or Manhunt myself? Not really, I dont personally get into them, but I can see why people do, plus I work at EB Games selling them so Im a little tired of hearing about them to be honest lol. But it ultimately comes down to the parents. Politicians and Lawyers need to stop looking at games and music for someone to blame, and point thier fingers at the parents, who are obviously not paying attention to thier children. I mean, these "young kids and teenagers" who tend to commit these violent acts, MUST get these games somewhere, and I wonder how that happens. Managing a game store, Ill tell you:

Eight year old kid walks in: "Excuse me, I'd like to purchase Grand Theft Auto Vice City"

Me: "Well, it is a mature rated game, do you have your parent with you?"

Kid: "they are out in the car, they told me to come get whatever I wanted, I have $50"

Me:"Well, I have to make sure that your parent is aware of the rating on this game, dont want them all mad at me saying its 'too violent' later on"

Kid: "Ok, Ill go get them"

-=5 mins pass by as parent parks, then comes
stomping in because they had to get off thier ass to come inside=-

Parent: "whats going on?"

me: "well your 8 yr old is trying to buy this M rated game, and I have to make sure you're aware of this adn why its rated as such, because I dont want you coming in later mad that I sold this to your kid, demanding a refund." (then i proceed to explain why GTA Vice City is exactly rated M)

Parent (cutting me off in explaination):"I have things to do I cant stand here and listen to this, if thats what my kid wants, then thats what he gets, it keeps him out of my hair so I can do things I want to do!"

me: "alrighty then, its $blah blah"

so even tho they have ratings, and even when responsible retailers adhere to those ratings, there will ALWAYS be parents, who still buy these games for thier kids, because they dont want to deal with and raise thier own kids. Thats what I think is sad, and thats what all these Politicians and Lawyers need to focus on. Not the game makers, not the games, not the retailers selling these games, but how parents can do something like that and get away with it, then be the first to point fingers when a child DOES get violent. The kid just wants some freaking attention, and if being violent and bad is the only way to get it, then they are going to do it!

A lot of parents now a days are stupid. Stupid people need to stop breeding. People who arent truely ready to have kids, need to learn birth control.

sorry for rambling, Im done.
/rant.

[Azbats]

I think the Games Franchise GAME might find a hole in your title and may sue for breech of copyright.

Don't try having a normal conversation with a lawyer for Gawds sake, it's impossible.

And whoever made that ridiculous flipant remark about hoping the kid was killed by a GTA addict, GROW UP. Someone has lost their life and it isn't a laughing matter. You wouldn't be laughing if it was of your family.

Personally I think the censorship laws should be tightened up to stop kids feom getting their hands on these games. And Parents must be made aware that these titles hold an 18 certificate for a damn good reason.

[Skett]

You should have just kept annoying the guy. It would be much funnier to here his responce after fifty emails.

And as much as I want to say this "G.A.M.E. Campaign" would work, its uber doubtful. That will not change anything. See what we need to do is to find a good lawyer who does enjoy games than sue the lawyer who is trying to take down Rockstar. Still, I doubt that will happen so I will support your campaign.

Now, if you excuse me, I need to send fifty emails to a certain lawyer. Hehehe.

[shifter]

more assinign comments from people who know cant tell the difference between a true gamers and truely disturbed people. it still bothers me that, even today, these no nothing blowhards are still trying to get games banned. but much to our delight, its never going to happen for the simple fact its a form of entertainment. and like all forms of entertainment now adays, it has warning and such to help inform parents what is good and what isnt for there child. now if they neglect to use the resources avaliable to them, you cant penellize the gaming industry. let these fools try all they want, gaming is going to be here till the end of time, and if they want to waste there time and money on futile attempts, i say let them. besides, in a little while, another form of entertainment will slip up and these ambulance chasers will be on them for a while, leaving gamers alone for awhile.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_evil.gif

It seems to me that Jack Thompson deserves the VanGarrett treatment. I will examine his argument, formulate my rebuttal, e-mail it to him, and post it here.

A few PSO World members are readily aware of how viciously sharp my arguments can be. Mature, and straight to hard points that cannot be refused, usually attained through logic, and refering to references as necessary.

He'll cave in.

[VioletSkye]

**Editted by me** I don't want to get anyone in trouble by doing what I hinted at http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Here is his registration info:

Organization:
Jack Thompson
Jack Thompson
1172 S. Dixie Hwy., Suite 111
Coral Gables, FL 33146
US
Phone: 305-666-4366
Email: [email protected]

Registrar Name....: Register.com
Registrar Whois...: whois.register.com
Registrar Homepage: http://www.register.com

Domain Name: STOPKILL.COM

Created on..............: Tue, Dec 03, 2002
Expires on..............: Fri, Dec 03, 2004
Record last updated on..: Sat, Nov 29, 2003

Administrative Contact:
Jack Thompson
Jack Thompson
1172 S. Dixie Hwy., Suite 111
Coral Gables, FL 33146
US
Phone: 305-666-4366
Email: [email protected]

Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Register.Com
Domain Registrar
575 8th Avenue - 11th Floor
New York, NY 10018
US
Phone: 902-749-2701
Fax..: 902-749-5429
Email: [email protected]

Domain servers in listed order:

DNS27.REGISTER.COM 216.21.234.84
DNS28.REGISTER.COM 216.21.226.84

He obviously established the DNS before ATTBI switched to Comcast. His new email is [email protected]


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2004-08-06 11:19 ]</font>

[EGO-BOT]

On 2004-08-06 10:32, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_evil.gif

It seems to me that Jack Thompson deserves the VanGarrett treatment. I will examine his argument, formulate my rebuttal, e-mail it to him, and post it here.

A few PSO World members are readily aware of how viciously sharp my arguments can be. Mature, and straight to hard points that cannot be refused, usually attained through logic, and refering to references as necessary.

He'll cave in.


All Jack Thompson will do, is reply with something along the lines of: "get a life nerd." or something similar. I've been following this whole thing regarding manhunt and now Jack Thompson's input into the situation including people sending him/planning to send him emails and reposting them on message boards along with his reply. He has been replying to all emails with stupid put downs you'd expect from someone without a single brain cell in their head. With him coming across as a real immature jackass.

I agree with supah_chao, don't take him seriously

[VioletSkye]

It seems fairly obvious that Jack doesn't actually care about the victims of those crimes, nor does he seem to genuinely believe the drivel that he has posted on his psuedo-patriotic website. I would venture to guess that he has a couple ulterior motives for his self-propagated hype:

1. To appease some political sect for his own personal agenda (he wants to look like the good guy to parents and politicians.)

2. For his own financial gain. I'm sure he would love to establish numerous large class action suits against these Software companies.

Either way, I agree that any endeavors to try and have an intelligent deliberation on the topic will be met with callowness and/or pointless remarks.

[digigram]

from his site..
One current horrific example is a video game made available by Sony and Take-Two Interactive called Manhunt. This game allows you to train yourself to kill people by placing plastic bags over their heads while you watch them struggle while suffocating.

Who wants to put on a blindfold and point your finger at a list to make some money?? jack? GO FOR IT.. go make that money!..

Thank violet, i'm moving to florida, so i'm going to have to organize some sort of "non-violent" trained to kill protest...

like, bring a generator and about 30 Televisions and PS2's... and play manhunt in front of his office for a week.

[digigram]

ok. After reading more of his bullshit on that site.. speaking about himself in 3rd person, I have a personal vendetta with this fucker. What a horrible, fucked up, lying piece of total and utter shit.


In April 1999, eight days before Columbine, Jack Thompson appeared on national television to identify the role that shooter video games, specifically Doom, would play in future school shootings.[b] A week later in Littleton, Colorado, Klebold and Harris, who obsessively trained on Doom, killed thirteen.[b]

BULLSHIT..... total bullshit.. you know what drove those fucking kids to kill people, being beat to shit and fucked with their whole lifes by almost everyone that surrounded them.. not playing doom. they were both very intellegent kids that no matter what this jack bitch says, were capable of telling the difference between the horrible graphics and experience of doom and Reality.
There was a thread a bit back about media bias and how if one thing is mentioned (games/music), every news reporter and socker-mom-ite just assume, "oooh, that must be it doncha know"..

Think of how many of the other bullshit teen murders that occur and realize that 99.999999% of them don't even fucking own a game system. They kill people either to stay alive or they want something the other person has (ie: money, drugs, jacket, shoes, car)

Trained killing? shit. If violent video games were training me, I would have had my god damned Ph.d in destroying the world. I have been playing every kind of video since I was 4 years old, from c64 to xbox,ps2,gc,PC ... I have never beat someone up for the fun of it, I have never killed anyone, hell I had even organized a anti-violence discussion group in high school that didn't even need to look into violent video games as a factor because we had enough COMMON FUCKING SENSE to realize that if a kid kills someone and they just so happen to own a video game system LIKE EVERY OTHER KID, it is coincidence, nothing more.


quit laying blame on something you don't understand jack..

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-08-06 11:21, EGO-BOT wrote:

All Jack Thompson will do, is reply with something along the lines of: "get a life nerd." or something similar. I've been following this whole thing regarding manhunt and now Jack Thompson's input into the situation including people sending him/planning to send him emails and reposting them on message boards along with his reply. He has been replying to all emails with stupid put downs you'd expect from someone without a single brain cell in their head. With him coming across as a real immature jackass.


That's the beauty of the way I've designed my argument. Any immature reply he can possibly give me can only hurt him.

It's not the best argument I've come up with, but it's pretty good and more importantly, it chases him into a corner, if you observe the subtleties I've placed toward the end.



Mr. Thompson,

I have read the argument which you provide your website, StopKill.com. I must say that I find it to be lacking. It neglects to properly cite references, and leaves the reader to assume that everything you've said is true, despite an obvious need for it, given the leaps and bounds that you have taken to enforce your points.
I am, myself, a youth born in 1981. I am happily married. I am also a Civil Draftsman, progressing to become a Civil Engineer. I was raised playing video games, starting with the original Nintendo Entertainment System, and I either currently own or have owned nearly every major video game console ever released in the United States.
I played Doom and Doom 2 quite extensively in the years following their releases, and I enjoyed them so much, that I continue to play them from time to time, to this day. I am also a fan of Halo, and I am amused by the free-roaming possibilities within the Grand Theft Auto series. I also have never attempted to kill someone, and furthermore, I have shot a gun only two or three times in my entire life; all occasions on which that happened were under my father's supervision, and the target was a dirt clod.
Today, I am a peaceful individual. Though I am known to be very aggressive in a debate, my demeanor is decidedly uncompetitive. I dislike participating in physical conflicts. I still purchase video games, and I still play them to relax after drawing civil construction plans all day. Games that I've played as of late include Doom, Heretic, Counter-Strike, Diablo II, Metroid Prime, Starcraft, various Mega Man games and Phantasy Star Online. All of these games involve the use of projectile weapons to achieve your goal. Metroid Prime is among the most vivid of them. Again, to the world, I am a very peaceful person, and it is very difficult to anger me.
If your suggestion that video games inspire violence is true, then I should be out on a killing spree as we speak. I am, however, not on a killing spree. Quite the opposite, I am, at the moment of this writing, engaging in writing a mature rebuttal. Having both played violent video games as well as having shot a gun, I will tell you this: A computer's keyboard or a video game controller handles in an entirely different manner from a gun. There are no similarities, whatsoever, which makes it quite a stretch to say that a video game can possibly make a suitable training substitute for say... A shooting range.

You use Eric Klebold and Dylan Harris of the Columbine Massacre as an example. You cite that they were avid players of Doom, and that they used the game to train for their attack. The flaw I see with this argument is such: If someone attains a game with the intention of using it to train for a purpose, does that not indicate that they first had the intention of committing violent acts? You seem to look at Klebold and Harris, and see two normal high schoolers, driven to attack others by video games. Others suggest that it was the RPGs that they played.
This is what makes me sick. I look at Klebold and Harris, and see two high schoolers of my own generation that were largely ignored by their parents, while they carefully laid down plans to assault their peers who had ridiculed them, many of whom, ridiculed them because they also were not given enough attention from their parents to be taught proper values. Rational behavior is not something that appears automatically. I have met plenty of adults twice my age that behave with less maturity than many ten year olds that I have met. Every last one of the aforementioned adults had parents that were either absent or abusive. Being of the age they are, they generally do not play video games, but yet, their behavior is more immature than that of a generation that does play video games. This refusal to accept responsibility is the largest problem with this world, today.

Recently, Wal-mart, Take-Two Interactive Software, Rockstar Games and Sony were sued (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/22/videogame.lawsuit.ap/) for producing and selling Grand Theft Auto III, in association with a shooting that occurred. I'm sure you're familiar with it. You were involved. What bothers me about the lawsuit is that the game was clearly marked for a mature audience, but it was purchased for a 14 year old and a 16 year old, by their grandmother. It can certainly be said that the behavior was inspired by the game, but the fact remains that this video game should not have been purchased for these children to begin with, as its content was obviously too mature for their impressionable minds, as the game's package clearly indicated-- this is, of course, what the big "M" in the corner on front and back of the package means, and it is also what the "Mature 18+" underneath it means. If an M-rated game inspires a youth to commit lethal or potentially lethal violence, then the individual who provided the game to that youth is the responsible party-- not the creators of the game who obviously intended the game for a mature audience who is capable of differentiating between what's a good idea in a game, and what's a good idea in real life.

Now, I realize that this is how you generate your income, but you're fighting against someone else who is producing a product to generate their own income. Games that require unusual types of violence to achieve a goal are in demand on the market at this time, as well as a great many other types of games. The video game industry is only producing what they believe consumers want, and that is what generates their income. They are not trying to sell games to consumers that are not mature enough to handle them. You must realize that people do not spontaneously stop playing video games when they complete their education, and that the audience that the industry plays to now is not necessarily going to be satisfied with cartoon-ish games featuring the Mario Brothers or Sonic the Hedgehog. Stereotypes from the 80's that depict video games as children's toys are very quickly being shattered, and with the growing pace of the industry, it is inevitable that this genre of entertainment will soon become very much mainstream; in Japan, it already is.
The first generation to grow up with video games will become eligible to sit in Congress within the next 10 years, and the vast majority of us are already eligible to vote-- and most of us DO. This means that you are fighting a losing battle, as you will grow older, and we will only increase in numbers, as subsequent generations will be born into a world where video games are a significant facet of the entertainment industry.

I do not disagree with you that many of these games have been handled improperly; they have been sold or given to people who are not mature enough to play them, and I have experienced first hand, just how blandly ignorant early teenagers can be. They shout random insults in response to coherent arguments, they abbreviate 3-letter words, and they stand by half-baked, unthought-out opinions. These children should NOT be playing games like Grand Theft Auto: Vice City or Halo, but that does not mean that a mature individual who enjoys a degree of action-oriented entertainment should be deprived of his right to do so. You are going after the WRONG target.


In closing, I would like to say that I've seen replies you've sent to others, and they were neither intelligent nor coherent. Be advised that should I receive a reply from you, if I find it lacking an intelligent response, it *will* be forwarded to everyone I know, posted on forums, sent to webmasters to post on their sites, possibly aired on national radio talk shows, and otherwise given as much publicity as can possibly be given to it. I am warning you of this, so that you will take your time and give me a reasonable response, rather than a single poorly written sentence, or a link to a comic strip intended to make light of how ill-conceived your position on this subject is. Yes, I've seen it, no it's not terribly funny, and if you honestly believe that satirical humor is intended to enforce the point it presents, then you've failed to catch the joke. I do dislike it when I receive a bad, poorly written argument. From a lawyer, who earns his income based on his ability to produce a convincing argument, I expect something substantial. I want you to make an attempt to change my position on the subject. Do not disappoint me.


Sincerely,
Garrett Courtney

[VioletSkye]

Job well done HUnewearl_Meira!! Please let us know when he replies and more importantly, what he says. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Although his modus operandi is to simply shrug it off and reply with something less than substantive, I am still eager to read his response.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2004-08-06 12:47 ]</font>

[InfernoNR7]

I guess I could try and help.

Oh, BTW, many politicians are only doing this stuff for attention (political attention), and they don't always believe in this stuff. This guy just sounds like an idiot tho, not a politician (kidna a PTA parent from hell sorta guy).

[Sord]

On 2004-08-06 11:55, digigram wrote:
from his site..
One current horrific example is a video game made available by Sony and Take-Two Interactive called Manhunt. This game allows you to train yourself to kill people by placing plastic bags over their heads while you watch them struggle while suffocating.

Who wants to put on a blindfold and point your finger at a list to make some money?? jack? GO FOR IT.. go make that money!..

Thank violet, i'm moving to florida, so i'm going to have to organize some sort of "non-violent" trained to kill protest...

like, bring a generator and about 30 Televisions and PS2's... and play manhunt in front of his office for a week.


if you had video feed or a picture of that, I would be laugh so. fscking. hard.

this guy really is quite an ass. I hope Meira can get something out of this guy, unless he the unitelligent jack ass he really is (jack taht is >_>.)

[Zzzzzz]

Hit the road, Jack, you're loved no more, no more, no more! Hit the road Jack, you're loved no more!

*ahem*

I would think this G.A.M.E. campaign is interesting. Although I think I wouldn't be able to join it, I say go ahead with it. VanGarret(Is it okay if I call you that?), I would love to see his response. Skett, I have a feeling of doing the exact same thing as you said.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-08-06 12:58, Sord wrote:
this guy really is quite an ass. I hope Meira can get something out of this guy, unless he the unitelligent jack ass he really is (jack taht is >_>.)


I honestly hope to get something along the lines of, "u r dum" so that I can forward it to everyone I know, post it on every forum I'm aware of, send it to my local congressman, get webmasters to include it on their sites, and also send it to radio talk show hosts so that they can read it on the air, all with the message attached, "This is how Mami-based lawyer, Jack Thompson considers and formulates his arguments."





On 2004-08-06 13:00, Zzzzzz wrote:
VanGarret(Is it okay if I call you that?)


It's what I go by everywhere else, so that's fine by me. If you intend to spell it correctly though, just remember: 2 R's, 2 T's.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2004-08-06 13:17 ]</font>

[Cannibal-Snowman]

Wow, this got alot of replies pretty quickly. Meira (or VanGarrett, whatever everybody is calling you), thank you so much for helping out! I can't wait to see what Jack has to say to you.

And to all of the people saying I shouldn't take this guy seriously, listen to me. I'm not just going after him in this campaign. There are plenty of other people out there that are just like him, and we're going after them, too. One of my friends at another board gave me a link to an Anti-videogame site. I'll post it later. I did look at the site, though, and it's insane. The people there actually think that videogames are the cause for all of the problems today.

I'll post the link later.

[Dangerous55]

How in the name of God does Doom "train" anyone? Shooting a gun in real life is about a billion times different then in a game.

[Eihwaz]

On 2004-08-06 13:15, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
I honestly hope to get something along the lines of, "u r dum" so that I can forward it to everyone I know, post it on every forum I'm aware of, send it to my local congressman, get webmasters to include it on their sites, and also send it to radio talk show hosts so that they can read it on the air, all with the message attached, "This is how Mami-based lawyer, Jack Thompson considers and formulates his arguments."


http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Excellent, it would be most incredibly excellent if this were to happen. This guy is one of those really annoying, politically correct fuckwads who needs to shut his damn mouth. If I had the time or the inclination, I would probably write him a nice email, but I suppose VanGarrett and Violet have pwned him enough. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Snowman, I couldn't see the comic that he sent you. Could you maybe get it hosted somewhere, and then post a link or something?

[darthsaber9x9]

hahahaha VanGarrett sounds like his----> http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_ak.gif name

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

and on topic, that guy sucks. there is no coherent argument against games, so i wouldn't expect one http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Azbats]

On 2004-08-06 12:12, digigram wrote:
ok. After reading more of his bullshit on that site.. speaking about himself in 3rd person, I have a personal vendetta with this fucker. What a horrible, fucked up, lying piece of total and utter shit.


In April 1999, eight days before Columbine, Jack Thompson appeared on national television to identify the role that shooter video games, specifically Doom, would play in future school shootings.[b] A week later in Littleton, Colorado, Klebold and Harris, who obsessively trained on Doom, killed thirteen.[b]



Well if this is the strength of his arguements then he's going to look exceptionally stupid. I recall this incident very well and watched a very revealing documentary on this [none of which said anything about the use of video gaming, in fact it pointed at violent lyrics in songs]

And without being flippant myself. I don't recall these boys killing people with a keyboard and mouse.

This "lawyer" is simply trying to make a name for himself. He may try, but he'll be reflected upon in his arguement and if that's the best he has he's in trouble.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-08-06 15:10, Azbats wrote:
Well if this is the strength of his arguements then he's going to look exceptionally stupid. I recall this incident very well and watched a very revealing documentary on this [none of which said anything about the use of video gaming, in fact it pointed at violent lyrics in songs]


People have also pointed to the RPGs that they played (evidently they enjoyed a campaign or two of D&D), as well as Marilyn Manson and video games. What really DID cause it, was poor parenting. Not just on the part of Klebold and Harris themselves, but on the part of the general community who had their progeny in the schools that Klebold and Harris went to. Klebold and Harris' parents failed to pay enough attention to their children-- they didn't address their problems and they weren't around enough to instill proper values in them, or even *notice* that they were STOCK PILING GUNS and making plans to have a massacre at their school.
For the rest of the community, well, they didn't give their progeny enough attention to properly instill respectful values, and as a result, those children tormented and harassed Klebold and Harris, until they finally became frustrated enough to lash out in a deadly fashion.

The whole thing where the blame is passed to video games, music or RPGs is a failure to accept responsibility. God forbid that someone might have to admit that they screwed up! No, blame it on hobbies and the entertainment industry! It's all their fault! ...

[Azbats]

On 2004-08-06 15:28, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:


On 2004-08-06 15:10, Azbats wrote:
Well if this is the strength of his arguements then he's going to look exceptionally stupid. I recall this incident very well and watched a very revealing documentary on this [none of which said anything about the use of video gaming, in fact it pointed at violent lyrics in songs]


People have also pointed to the RPGs that they played (evidently they enjoyed a campaign or two of D&D), as well as Marilyn Manson and video games. What really DID cause it, was poor parenting. Not just on the part of Klebold and Harris themselves, but on the part of the general community who had their progeny in the schools that Klebold and Harris went to. Klebold and Harris' parents failed to pay enough attention to their children-- they didn't address their problems and they weren't around enough to instill proper values in them, or even *notice* that they were STOCK PILING GUNS and making plans to have a massacre at their school.
For the rest of the community, well, they didn't give their progeny enough attention to properly instill respectful values, and as a result, those children tormented and harassed Klebold and Harris, until they finally became frustrated enough to lash out in a deadly fashion.

The whole thing where the blame is passed to video games, music or RPGs is a failure to accept responsibility. God forbid that someone might have to admit that they screwed up! No, blame it on hobbies and the entertainment industry! It's all their fault! ...



I totally agree and mentioned in an earlier post. Parents are far too eager to stick their children in front of a TV or a games consol then bothered to care for their grow and development. So where do these children find their role models from and their sense of morality?

Parents have a lot to answer for in these cases and MUST understand the fact that R Rated games are that for a specific reason. I'm writing a piece on this for a magazine, while still trying to retain an impartial standpoint... which is bloddy difficult i can tell you.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-08-06 15:34, Azbats wrote:
I totally agree and mentioned in an earlier post. Parents are far too eager to stick their children in front of a TV or a games consol then bothered to care for their grow and development. So where do these children find their role models from and their sense of morality?


This is where the imbalance occurs in families where both parents work. I suppose that these days, it isn't entirely important if it's the mother or the father that stays home, but it is important that one of them does stay home. Someone has to be there for the kids. Though perhaps it's not specifically important, but I'd say it's preferencial for the mother to stay home, and I will back it up with two firm reasons:

1. The mother stands a chance of becoming pregnant again-- this will eventually bring her to a condition where it is difficult for her to continue practicing her occupation, and she will inevitably have to take hiatus from her work for the delivery of the child, as well as giving the child the motherly care immediately after birth that the father is simply incapable of.

2. Men typically get paid more than their female colleagues. The reasons behind this may be sexist, or they may be the result of men doing more to earn that extra money-- I don't make the decisions on how the money gets distributed, so I don't know why this is, for certain. It's a simple fact, however. So if only one parent is to go off to work and provide the family with an income, it is ideal for it to be the father, because he stands the best chance to make the most money.

Now I'm not expecting anyone to change the way they plan to live their lives, based on what I've just said, but it's certainly something worth considering.

[Sord]

heh, this just reminded me of a comedy one of my bit more then acquaintence, bit less then friend people did for middle-school graduation. It was about how videogames and such are dangerous arguement vs. hey, wanna go play with the wood burner? throw some lawn darts? get out and play with the chemistry set? It was great, I only regret i can't tell you the exact dialogue.

[Skett]

I sent my own message. Neither as mean nor informational as others, mine was to try to act like a normal human being and even act like I was supporting him. I think I went too far when I said G4TechTV.


Dear Jack Thompson,

I was just curious and have a few questions. If you win the case against Rockstar Games, what would your next plan be? Will you continue to go against the videogame industry? How far will you go? Will you continue to sue the publishers in America, Europe, and Japan, including the thousands of small developers? What would happen to G4TechTV, a channel for videogames? What would you do when videogames are gone and the killing continues?

Anyways, good luck on your case against Rockstar Games. Thank you for your time and have a nice day.

Skett N.

He said (in these exact words): "you'll be the last to know"

I sent another email with his responce on it that said, "Last to know what? I'm sorry, I wasn't listening."

Now my plan is to continue responding to these little responces until he goes A) mad, or B) stops responding. I say, if he thinks all gamers are crazy than lets send him crazy messages from gamers.

[Sord]

On 2004-08-06 17:42, Skett wrote:
I sent my own message. Neither as mean nor informational as others, mine was to try to act like a normal human being and even act like I was supporting him. I think I went too far when I said G4TechTV.


Dear Jack Thompson,

I was just curious and have a few questions. If you win the case against Rockstar Games, what would your next plan be? Will you continue to go against the videogame industry? How far will you go? Will you continue to sue the publishers in America, Europe, and Japan, including the thousands of small developers? What would happen to G4TechTV, a channel for videogames? What would you do when videogames are gone and the killing continues?

Anyways, good luck on your case against Rockstar Games. Thank you for your time and have a nice day.

Skett N.

He said (in these exact words): "you'll be the last to know"

I sent another email with his responce on it that said, "Last to know what? I'm sorry, I wasn't listening."

Now my plan is to continue responding to these little responces until he goes A) mad, or B) stops responding. I say, if he thinks all gamers are crazy than lets send him crazy messages from gamers.


as funny as that would be, wouldn't it be proving him right in some sense?

EDIT: if this guy is a lawyer that's oh so convinced of his rightness, and wants to do something with it like ban video games, why is he sitting somewhere answering e-mails from random people?

I wonder if this guy knows about Polybius?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sord on 2004-08-06 17:58 ]</font>

[Skett]

as funny as that would be, wouldn't it be proving him right in some sense?

I don't know. I just want to give him a taste of his own beer.

By the way, I have no idea how many of you post at 1UP's boards but, with your permission, I would like to post some of your stuff, especially Meira's post.

[Cannibal-Snowman]

Sorry about the comic not working, I saved it and uploaded it to one of my accounts this time. Hopefully this should work:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Cannibal-Snowman/db040805.gif

EDIT: Also, I got a link to another crazy anti-videogame site. These people are even more fucked up than Jack Thompson. You've been warned.

Mothers Against Videogame Addiction and Violence (http://www.mavav.org)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cannibal-Snowman on 2004-08-06 18:25 ]</font>

[Eihwaz]

On 2004-08-06 18:18, Cannibal-Snowman wrote:
Sorry about the comic not working, I saved it and uploaded it to one of my accounts this time. Hopefully this should work:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Cannibal-Snowman/db040805.gif

EDIT: Also, I got a link to another crazy anti-videogame site. These people are even more fucked up than Jack Thompson. You've been warned.

Mothers Against Videogame Addiction and Violence (http://www.mavav.org)

Heh, this guy is the biggest asshole I've heard about in QUITE some time. I'll check out this other site. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_evil.gif

EDIT: I've already read just a tiny bit of the Mothers Against Videogame Addicting And Violence site, and I'm covinced that they're all assholes too. >_<

They posted this as one of the bullshit "symptoms" of a "troubled" video-game player, their report card at school.



Computer Education Excellent
English Poor
Mathematics Poor
Science Poor
Social Studies Poor
Physical Education Poor

My main form of entertainment is playing video games, yet on my last term report card, I brough in 3 A's and 3 B's, a very respectable report card. Jesus Christ, playing video games doesn't make you fail at PE! Hell, I'm not in the best of shape, I could do well to drop some poundage, but I can still get a fucking A in PE.

Oh, Jesus, this site ALSO mentions the "violent games teach you how to kill" bullshit.



Danger: Do videogames teach people how to kill?

Yes. When videogames were linked to the Columbine high school shooters, a frenzy of new research was launched, in which, one team of researchers discovered that first person shooter games do indeed teach gamers with the basic knowledge of how to kill. This research arrived be so conclusive that the U.S. government Army developed a free videogame to be used as a virtual boot camp and killing simulator.

Yeah, they teach us the "basic knowledge of how to kill." Like we didn't already know that shooting people with guns can be fatal. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

If only they had a forum, I could join and oh...http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_evil.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eihwaz on 2004-08-06 19:27 ]</font>

[Sciler]

I currently live in FL, too bad hes 4 hrs from where I live, but I did get directions http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Bradicus]

New sig, anyone?
http://www.mavav.org/images/banners/mavav_black.gif

[Outrider]

Guys, despite the fact I thought everyone knew this... MAVAV was fake. It was some kids project for school, and he admitted to it after a few weeks. He just wanted to see what kind of reaction he would get.

Doesn't anybody remember the uproar about it last summer?

Here was his website about it. (http://a.parsons.edu/~dyoo/2002-3/interactivity/mavav/)

And I really can't believe that Mr. Thompson posted that Doonesbury strip. Doesn't he understand the current storyline is mocking those who blame videogames on real-life violence? I mean, seriously, what law school did this guy graduate from?

[Eihwaz]

Whoa, Outrider, that MAVAV was -fake-? That makes me feel better, but at the same time bad about the time I wasted writing that post. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Cannibal-Snowman]

Okay, so the site was fake (I didn't know that). That doesn't mean that there are people that don't think that.

[KodiaX987]

Let's frag him. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Eihwaz]

On 2004-08-07 06:16, KodiaX987 wrote:
Let's frag him. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif


I couldn't agree more. XD

[Tycho]

That comic, is utter bullshit.
Gaming improving reflexes and eye-hand coorination, that's a fact.
Gaming making teenagers or people in general violent, that's a speculation, and has not in any way been proven.
So fact is, there is only proof gaming is good.

[Outrider]

On 2004-08-07 08:52, Tycho wrote:
That comic, is utter bullshit.
Gaming improving reflexes and eye-hand coorination, that's a fact.
Gaming making teenagers or people in general violent, that's a speculation, and has not in any way been proven.
So fact is, there is only proof gaming is good.



Uh, the comic is actually a spoof of exactly the people Mr. Thompson is supporting. It's making fun of those that say playing videogames will make you want to kill people.

I hardly think Garry Trudeau would support anything as crazy as this lawsuit.

[Kent]

Go! Go! Publicity Stunt!

Rockstar shouldn't go down for making violent games, they should go down for making games that suck.

[Ness]

That Jack Tompson guy is a dumbass. Also, I too can make some pretty good arguemnts defending videogames so count me in.

[DeathCheese87]

On 2004-08-08 07:15, Kent wrote:
Go! Go! Publicity Stunt!

Rockstar shouldn't go down for making violent games, they should go down for making games that suck.



But, but, but, in the new GTA you can EAT FOOD AND BUILD YOUR CHARACTER BY WHAT YOU DO AND EAT! (sarcasm!)

Its just combining this violence with the interest of the extreme AND mainstream gamers. If some extremely independent developer made something worse than GTA violence-wise, it wouldn't get such a beating from the media. Eh.

[Dangerous55]

On 2004-08-08 07:15, Kent wrote:
Go! Go! Publicity Stunt!

Rockstar shouldn't go down for making violent games, they should go down for making games that suck.



Well, millions of people will disagree with you on that one buddy.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dangerous55 on 2004-08-08 10:52 ]</font>

[VioletSkye]

On 2004-08-08 07:15, Kent wrote:
Go! Go! Publicity Stunt!

Rockstar shouldn't go down for making violent games, they should go down for making games that suck.


I actually really enjoyed the Max Payne series. The GTA series I've never tried just because for whatever reason they didn't appeal to me. But overall I would say that Rockstars game record is pretty solid. Manhunt, Max payne 2, GTA, and the Midnight Club series have all done extremely well. You may personally not enjoy those games, but obviously alot of others do. And personal tastes aside, I would say that their games for the most part are at least well done.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2004-08-08 11:27 ]</font>

[Scrub]

Rockstar Games also made Earthworm Jim 3-D.

You can not deny EARTHWORM JIM!

[Cannibal-Snowman]

Well, did you guys hear about the six people who were killed in Florida? Yeah, apparently the killer did it because they stole his Xbox.

Mr. Thompson, along with all the other anti-videogame fucktards are gonna have something to say about this. And I've got something to say right back to them.

(The following message is directed at the Anti-videogame Fucktards, or AVF)

You can't prove anything! It doesn't matter what was stolen! If they stole his car, he still would have killed them. If they stole his TV, his computer, his shoes, his pillow, WHO CARES! As long as they stole SOMETHING, that guy was going to kill them!

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2004-08-06 18:08, Skett wrote:
By the way, I have no idea how many of you post at 1UP's boards but, with your permission, I would like to post some of your stuff, especially Meira's post.


Go for it.


Just a bit of an update on my e-mail-- I've yet to receive a response. It is 9:30AM PST right now. This means that I've been at my office for an hour and a half, and he's been at his office for 4 and a half hours. Either he is REALLY taking his time to butt heads with me, or he has no intention of replying. Such a shame, really. I was rather looking forward to either a good e-mail debate, or the opportunity to show the world what level of intelligence people of his stance operate on.


EDIT:

OOOOO! Idea! Someone needs to accumulate the replies and such that have already been received from him, identify the defense attourney in Mr. Thompson's current case, and send all of this stuff to him!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2004-08-09 09:36 ]</font>