Rangers

[NeonShadow]

Dont know where this topic is supposed to go so move it to the right section if this is the wrong one..

So I wanna know all the pros and cons for all the Rangers since I'm gonna make one today but haven't decided wich one is the best one for me. Thanks in advance.

[EphekZ]

just make one and experiment if you dont like him then delete him/recreate him and try another character

[Devin]

Hm, I know there are other posts about this same thing, but I'm too lazy to find em.. so I'll just post my opinion. =]

RAmar - Has SD and highest ata; Poor choice for a RA <_<;
RAmarl - Has SD/JZ and second highest ata; Best choice for solo, or multi with no fo.
RAcast - Has traps and highest atp, but lowest ata - though still plenty; Best choice for multi with a fo.
RAcaseal - Has traps and highest def. Has slightly higher ata than RAcast; Again, this is a poor choice for a RA..

So, basically RAmarl for solo and RAcast for multi. Of course this is just my opinion <_<;



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Devin on 2004-08-29 23:38 ]</font>

[Fossil]

RAmar - Has SD and highest ata; Poor choice for a RA <_<;

You should get shot. -_- RAmar is by far the 1337est character. Pick him, learn him, live him, love him. Play the game.

[Hrith]

I'm totally with Devin if you want my opinion.

[Rainbowlemon]

I'm totally with darkgunner if you want my opinion.

The best way to find out a character's strengths and weaknesses is not by figures, but by experience. Sometimes what's on paper doesn't always support the in-game playability of a character.

[Zinger314]

You forgot the biggest con of the RAcast: THE HORROR METAL CLANGING!

[Akulamenuri]

If you want a Ranger thats easy to play with, pick RAmarl. If you want one harder to play with, pick RAcaseal.

[Ryu_4]

well just simply have fun and try to spread your gameplay experiences and get 1-2 mem card so you can play around with a few extra chars to see how they are http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Joltox]

In my opinion, just experiment with them. I just like the Ramarl because of the S/D and J/Z, and plus they are lethal when it comes to machine guns and rifles.{When given extra attack power that is!} http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif
But anyway, experiment and use the ranger that best suits your personality and your playing strategy.

[Ryu_4]

Experimenting is always good =n_n= even if you dont like the player you will gain experience using it so in future preferences you may use your knowledge to help players in the future =n_n=

[RamarBassist]

i would pick Ramar (which i already did) because if your going to be a ranger you might as well be the best at it, meaning have the highest acurracy also the tech. are extremely helpful but you still have fairly high stats because your mind is more balanced unlike the Ramarl. In my opinion, Ramar is the best one and Ramarl is the second.

[kazuma56]

I would say just try each one of them to say lvl 10 or so, if you like they way they handle things, then continue to play that char, but beware, offline solo andriods get knocked back alot once they hit Ult.

BTW RAmar and RAmarl differences are not even noticed once they reach a high lvl when soloing, RAmarl players most likely will not be using Zalure because enemies are managable without it, and Jellen is only helpful when meleeing, online, if you should have a Force and a RAmar/l together, she is weaker than a RAmar, in a game of RAmarl and RAmar together, she is still weaker.... she more or less becomes the support healer in dangerous lvls.

[lancesomestuf]

i think the racast, you might have a low accuracy but you can regenerate health and i always like high attack power because if its dead it cant hit me and racasealif you like being able to take hits and still deal damage. thats just me,but you shpuld really experiment

[Gjl]

Although RAcasts have the lowest ATA of the rangers, 224 is still a shitload and only 7 less than the ugly RAcaseal. The awesome ATP on the RAcast means you can even equip some of the better melee weapons earlier and even equip Akiko's Frying Pan at an earlier level (one of the best weapons in the game IMO http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif). RAcasts are the coolest looking Rangers so for this reason alone you should make one http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/eviltongue.gif.

[Jasam]

RAmarl>RAmar, the RAmar has rubbish mst, so has bad resta, and doesn't get the high SDJZ, which in solo make up the diffrences easly. The only nice thing about the RAmar is his 8 more ata whcih isn't anything specal and his 100 more atp (what 30 damige ish big deal.) You have to Remember that Ramarl has higher def, the highest evade in the game 20 spells which make up for the ata diffrence and give her an even better defence, and a resta that heals a decent amount of hp. And i do not need any RAmars below 100 saying the restas good as when you gwt up a few more level, it begins yto take 4-5 restas even at 130 to heal, and that number keeps increasing. And if you need to use mates, you might as well of been a droid

Oh and RAcast>RAcaseal, if you can bear the clanking.

[kazuma56]

On 2004-09-01 03:23, Jasam wrote:
RAmarl>RAmar, the RAmar has rubbish mst, so has bad resta, and doesn't get the high SDJZ, which in solo make up the diffrences easly. The only nice thing about the RAmar is his 8 more ata whcih isn't anything specal and his 100 more atp (what 30 damige ish big deal.) You have to Remember that Ramarl has higher def, the highest evade in the game 20 spells which make up for the ata diffrence and give her an even better defence, and a resta that heals a decent amount of hp. And i do not need any RAmars below 100 saying the restas good as when you gwt up a few more level, it begins yto take 4-5 restas even at 130 to heal, and that number keeps increasing. And if you need to use mates, you might as well of been a droid

Oh and RAcast>RAcaseal, if you can bear the clanking.



.... I'm not going to argue because I did this about 4-6 months ago with lain and some other ppl, so I'll just point out some things:

Offline at lvl 155, my RAmar could kill almost every enemy in the game (barring Delbiter and morfos) in 1 combo using Red/Yas 9's, so How much more "better" can a RAmarl do with her SDJZ? also, At that same lvl, I was clearing Seabed in 20+ mins.

did you Forget that RAmar has about 200 more HP than a RAmarl? which makes up for the EVP difference, and that measily 8 ATA is more or less the same as her measily 60 or so more DFP.

Also, Resta isn't really needed to fill up 500+ HP unless you're in Seabed/CCA (mines/ruins) areas, and if your sticking to Pure Ranger (I.R shooting only) his so called shit Resta is effective, and is also a ton better than a monomate *cough* Cast/caseal *cough*, As I have said before, it's more of a substitute heal than a primary heal.

Oh yea, BTW her so called "Godly" EVP can get her into shit if you suck at combo timing or don't have a Devil/God battle on.

[Hrith]

there is no way to beat Seabed in 20 minutes, my FOnewearl's best time is 30ish, and she pwns your RAmar by far >_>

RAmar is a good ranger, but RAmarl is generally better, and her plus is that she can be an excellent meleer and a good support char.

RAmar is a good ranger, we agree on that, but RAmarl is clearly better, on any situation.

[kazuma56]

Taking the most direct route I can pass it in 20+ mins, as for meleeing, I consider myself a decent RAmar meleer, it's all about the situation, if i'm in mines, I probably won't melee, in any other place besides that on ep.1 I will, in ep.2 I will melee in both VR missions, Some areas in CCA (I hate Ul Gibbons Gizonde) and depending on room, seabed.

Offline, I will melee everywhere because enemies usually die within a 6-9 combo (depending on criticals) or after the first round of hits in that combo (maybe not Morfos though....)

Example: In Seabed I will freeze a Delbiter, switch to my Twin Blaze (o% to all) and use a Heavy X3 combo, depending on if I get the usual 2-3 crits in that combo the next start of that combo doing the first 2 hits (heavy) it will die.

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-01 17:29, kazuma56 wrote:
.... I'm not going to argue because I did this about 4-6 months ago with lain and some other ppl, so I'll just point out some things:

Offline at lvl 155, my RAmar could kill almost every enemy in the game (barring Delbiter and morfos) in 1 combo using Red/Yas 9's, so How much more "better" can a RAmarl do with her SDJZ? also, At that same lvl, I was clearing Seabed in 20+ mins.

did you Forget that RAmar has about 200 more HP than a RAmarl? which makes up for the EVP difference, and that measily 8 ATA is more or less the same as her measily 60 or so more DFP.

Also, Resta isn't really needed to fill up 500+ HP unless you're in Seabed/CCA (mines/ruins) areas, and if your sticking to Pure Ranger (I.R shooting only) his so called shit Resta is effective, and is also a ton better than a monomate *cough* Cast/caseal *cough*, As I have said before, it's more of a substitute heal than a primary heal.

Oh yea, BTW her so called "Godly" EVP can get her into shit if you suck at combo timing or don't have a Devil/God battle on.


That's at 155 with a RAmar. RAmarl could prbably do it a bit sooner.

200 more HP is one plus for the RAmar. But it doesn't always make up for the EVP difference. Evading attacks is sometimes better than taking less % of your HP. His better HP can also get him into "shit" if you have bad timing too (even with a God/Battle on).

60 ATP is much better than 8 ATA (at least when you already have the top 2 ATAs in the game). This extra DFP (not to mention the extra 5 levels of Deband and 20 levels of Jellen) can really make a difference in survival time, and can make up fr the 200 extra HP of the RAmar.

And I don't know what you are talking about, quite often has my RAmarl's level 20 Resta with 756 MST has saved the team (if not mine, but some other RAmarl's or HUnewearl's). I don't know about you, but 500 HP is easy to take off.



To the topic creater:
Make one of each. Get them to about level 40 (a fairly high level to test a character, but true strengths don't come out until around then). Decide from there.
My personal suggestions:
Online with a good support FOrce: RAcast/RAcaseal
Online with either poor, or no support FOrce: RAmarl
Offline only: RAmarl
(possibly RAmar)

[Gjl]

http://img82.exs.cx/img82/557/GJLyas9k2.png

That's all I have to say to be honest http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gjl on 2004-09-02 08:35 ]</font>

[kazuma56]

That's at 155 with a RAmar. RAmarl could prbably do it a bit sooner.


True but my my lvl isn't universal, that was the lvl when my ATP was maxed out, so in theory I could have been doing that by lvl 130 or so if I went pow mag and God/power crazy.


200 more HP is one plus for the RAmar. But it doesn't always make up for the EVP difference. Evading attacks is sometimes better than taking less % of your HP. His better HP can also get him into "shit" if you have bad timing too (even with a God/Battle on).


HP get me into shit? if that was true a RAcast would be in extreme Shit, you see the thing is, EVP makes you block oncoming attacks which momentarily stops your character, thus allowing time for other enemies to move in, and if he also swipes you, you could end up getting caught in a blocking trap, and last time I checked, HP doesn't influence block and if your playing offline you have that few secs in invincability meaning no enemy could trap you forever


60 ATP is much better than 8 ATA (at least when you already have the top 2 ATAs in the game). This extra DFP (not to mention the extra 5 levels of Deband and 20 levels of Jellen) can really make a difference in survival time, and can make up fr the 200 extra HP of the RAmar.


Survival time? give me my Spread Needle, Yas9k's and Frozen shooter and i'm nearly untouchable.


And I don't know what you are talking about, quite often has my RAmarl's level 20 Resta with 756 MST has saved the team (if not mine, but some other RAmarl's or HUnewearl's). I don't know about you, but 500 HP is easy to take off.


Not really, unless your in the last 2 lvls of each area (or the tower stages) 500 HP is almost never takin off my RAmar, also, doing solo runs enemies in seabed (excluding delbiter) only take off 390 something, because my RAmar with only 504 (I think) MST can heal up the dmg from a Morfos beam with that one Resta... don't get me wrong, at lvl 178 and only having 504 MST seems pathetic, but the current mag in my possesion has nothing on mind, my Pushan has 50 thus posting my MST to 644 (with Twin blaze equipped).

... I'm pretty sure the topic creator already picked his RA class so it would make sense for him to close/lock it.

[RamarBassist]

i still think Ramar is a better choice, because the Ramarl's are comparing a Ramarl's attack with shifta with just a Ramar but there forgetting he also knows shifta and deband. so u should compare a shifta'd Ramarl and a shifta'd Ramar and i think the Ramar is better.

to all you Ramarl lovers: while i dont agree with what you say, i will defend to the death your right to say it

[Fossil]

RAmarl>RAmar, the RAmar has rubbish mst, so has bad resta, and doesn't get the high SDJZ, which in solo make up the diffrences easly. The only nice thing about the RAmar is his 8 more ata whcih isn't anything specal and his 100 more atp (what 30 damige ish big deal.) You have to Remember that Ramarl has higher def, the highest evade in the game 20 spells which make up for the ata diffrence and give her an even better defence, and a resta that heals a decent amount of hp. And i do not need any RAmars below 100 saying the restas good as when you gwt up a few more level, it begins yto take 4-5 restas even at 130 to heal, and that number keeps increasing. And if you need to use mates, you might as well of been a droid

I'm not going to waste my time either. I do this on Gamefaqs all the time and the only factual basis that can back this up is online play. It all comes down to the player, how they play and what they have to use that determines their skill with the class.


Survival time? give me my Spread Needle, Yas9k's and Frozen shooter and i'm nearly untouchable.

I haven't used a Frozen Shooter since I corrupted. I am unstoppable without it.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fossil on 2004-09-03 01:45 ]</font>

[Tycho]

On 2004-09-01 01:44, Gjl wrote:

the ugly RAcaseal



-_-;;

Jeebus.

You have no friggin sense of making characters. Racast looking better than Racaseals? Despite the stat difference, I chose Racaseal for the looks.

[Skorpius]

Ok, I will add my two cents, as long as repeating things.

If you're online, I would opt for a bot. Traps are great, and being on a team with a FO will make you pwndefull http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif If you're offline, I would say go for a fleshy. You could do decently with a RAmar and specials (charge, Berzerk, Spirit) or just mash your way with RAmarl (S/D/J/Z EVP)

Overall, RAmarl. They can do everything o.o;

[RamarBassist]

i still think a Ramar is better but that's just my opinion and it really does vary with the person who's making the character

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-02 19:11, RamarBassist wrote:
i still think Ramar is a better choice, because the Ramarl's are comparing a Ramarl's attack with shifta with just a Ramar but there forgetting he also knows shifta and deband. so u should compare a shifta'd Ramarl and a shifta'd Ramar and i think the Ramar is better.

to all you Ramarl lovers: while i dont agree with what you say, i will defend to the death your right to say it


I do use the RAmar's Shifta and Deband though. It's just that level 20 S/D/J/Z > level 15 S/D. RAmar doesn't have the use of Zalure (which would make a big difference on higher difficulty enemies). Odds are, a RAmarl is stronger than a RAmar.*

And Skorpius-
RAmarls can use special attacks almost as well as RAmars. And RAmarls get the J/Z to add extra damage.



*According to this site's damage calculater (http://www.pso-world.com/damagecalc.php):
Level 20 Shifta and Zalure on an Online Ultimate Booma (Bartle, or is it Barble? Doesn't matter.) with 800 base ATP and an unground Frozen Shooter equipped (RAmarl):
Character Stats
Attack Power Attack Power + Shifta Attack Power + Attribute % ATP Total
1050 1327 1050 1327
Damage Stats
Normal Strike Damage Normal Strike Damage
Critical Hit Heavy Strike Damage Heavy Strike Damage
Critical Hit
167 251 317 476

Same but with no Zalure and level 15 Shifta (RAmar):
Attack Power Attack Power + Shifta Attack Power + Attribute % ATP Total
1050 1275 1050 1275
Damage Stats
Normal Strike Damage Normal Strike Damage
Critical Hit Heavy Strike Damage Heavy Strike Damage
Critical Hit
121 181 229 343

And the difference will only rise on higher defense enemies, and on weapons with higher ATP. Also, a Charge/Berserk/Spirit special will up the damage for both.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-09-03 14:23 ]</font>

[Hrith]

Ketchup, marry me http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

and Skorpius made it very clear "RAmarl can do anything" and does it very well, may I add.

[Gjl]

On 2004-09-03 06:24, Tycho wrote:


On 2004-09-01 01:44, Gjl wrote:

the ugly RAcaseal



-_-;;

Jeebus.

You have no friggin sense of making characters. Racast looking better than Racaseals? Despite the stat difference, I chose Racaseal for the looks.



Ok I have no damn idea what having a 'sense of making characters' entails, but I know for certain that you sir obviously have no sense of style or fashion to ever say that the RAcaseal is the best looking ranger O.o. Well you can stick with your pink metallic BORING frocks if that's what you like, since it can appease your odd tastes so well as to allow you to make such ludicrous claims http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif.

Also WHAT THE HELL was Sonic Team thinking of giving the RAcaseal the highest defense in the damn game? Or the ranger class as a whole for that matter...http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

Style:
1st - RAcast
2nd - RAmarl
3rd place tied since they aren't worth classifying individually - RAcaseal & RAmar

Usability:
1st - RAcast
2nd - RAmarl
3rd - RAcaseal
4th - RAmar

If you're offline only then the RAmarl is best. Online is a bit different though since the RAcaseal has the edge over the RAmarl depending on your team, but when the RAcast pwns the 'caseal in style AND strength, WHY bother http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif?

And why do these threads always turn into a RAmarl vs. RAmar debate? O.o. There IS no debate, RAmarl > RAmar. Get over it please http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gjl on 2004-09-03 12:56 ]</font>

[kazuma56]

i'm not disputing the fact that RAmar are better than RAmarls, but the fact that they don't suck as much as everyone seem to think, at high lvls, they are a force to be reckoned with, and may even outdamage a Humar just because of weapon specials, I do more dmg than my bro's Humar at the same base ATP using my Charge Gungnir with 50% to hit, while he using a 25% to hit Red Sword, even at max atp I don't still think I may outdamage him on average using a Charge Gungnir.

The point i'm trying to get across is, RAmar's don't suck, people just say they do because of lack of MST, so I figure that most people don't know how to play them right, because remeber, that you should always now your enemy before making the first strike.

[Hrith]

STFU n00b !!!11

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

seriously, RAmars are worse, not bad, I have a friend with a 196 RAmar, he is definitely a force to be reckoned with >_>

[RamarBassist]

everyone obviously has clashing opinions about rangers some people say Ramar some say Ramarl some say Racast and a choice few say Racaseal personally i pick Ramar but i also think ramarls are awesome. i wouldnt pick racast or racaseal because i dont really like androids over humans but thats just my opinion

[Gjl]

Kef, ALL characters at that level are a force to be reckoned with http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

What I made clear with this post...



On 2004-09-03 12:54, Gjl wrote:


On 2004-09-03 06:24, Tycho wrote:


On 2004-09-01 01:44, Gjl wrote:

the ugly RAcaseal



-_-;;

Jeebus.

You have no friggin sense of making characters. Racast looking better than Racaseals? Despite the stat difference, I chose Racaseal for the looks.



Ok I have no damn idea what having a 'sense of making characters' entails, but I know for certain that you sir obviously have no sense of style or fashion to ever say that the RAcaseal is the best looking ranger O.o. Well you can stick with your pink metallic BORING frocks if that's what you like, since it can appease your odd tastes so well as to allow you to make such ludicrous claims http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif.

Also WHAT THE HELL was Sonic Team thinking of giving the RAcaseal the highest defense in the damn game? Or the ranger class as a whole for that matter...http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

Style:
1st - RAcast
2nd - RAmarl
3rd place tied since they aren't worth classifying individually - RAcaseal & RAmar

Usability:
1st - RAcast
2nd - RAmarl
3rd - RAcaseal
4th - RAmar

If you're offline only then the RAmarl is best. Online is a bit different though since the RAcaseal has the edge over the RAmarl depending on your team, but when the RAcast pwns the 'caseal in style AND strength, WHY bother http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif?

And why do these threads always turn into a RAmarl vs. RAmar debate? O.o. There IS no debate, RAmarl > RAmar. Get over it please http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gjl on 2004-09-03 12:56 ]</font>


...is that RAmars are pointless to make since the tech-Ranger and the android ranger are both better in looks and performance. There is no need for a compromise between a half-force, half-ranger and a full-offense ranger which is what the RAmar tries to be. But if you somehow like the appearance of the RAmar like how some people like the RAcaseal http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif, then by all means make your RAmar and be happy.

[Tycho]

I dont want a "KLUNK KLUNK" character.

I like focusing on teamplay, so I don't like hybrid characters. In a team Ramar would be better than Ramarl, idc if it's the other way around in single play. PSO sucks when you play on your own, it's just boring. Human characters and hunes just shouldnt use magic, cept Resta/anti/ryuker, and for the human fo's SD/JZ/Reverser is OK too. Sorry for my rudeness earlier.

So I prefer bot Ra's. And some classes are only cool to me if the player is stylish. I just dislike human classes for their allroundness.

(Yesh, I didn't include hune in the disliking for being a hybrid. It's teh looks. ;< )


Edit: and in teamplay Ramar > Ramarl. who cares if it's the other way around in single play. Human rangers shouldn't get close enough for physical attacks to matter (dfp, evp), and shouldn't have to cast spells (mst). Ramar pwns her at HP, ATP, and ATA. There's no way Ramarl should be considered better. In team play, she's actually the worst RA. Face it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tycho on 2004-09-04 10:06 ]</font>

[yellow5]

On 2004-09-03 11:39, Ketchup345 wrote:


On 2004-09-02 19:11, RamarBassist wrote:
i still think Ramar is a better choice, because the Ramarl's are comparing a Ramarl's attack with shifta with just a Ramar but there forgetting he also knows shifta and deband. so u should compare a shifta'd Ramarl and a shifta'd Ramar and i think the Ramar is better.

to all you Ramarl lovers: while i dont agree with what you say, i will defend to the death your right to say it


I do use the RAmar's Shifta and Deband though. It's just that level 20 S/D/J/Z > level 15 S/D. RAmar doesn't have the use of Zalure (which would make a big difference on higher difficulty enemies). Odds are, a RAmarl is stronger than a RAmar.*

And Skorpius-
RAmarls can use special attacks almost as well as RAmars. And RAmarls get the J/Z to add extra damage.



*According to this site's damage calculater (http://www.pso-world.com/damagecalc.php):
Level 20 Shifta and Zalure on an Online Ultimate Booma (Bartle, or is it Barble? Doesn't matter.) with 800 base ATP and an unground Frozen Shooter equipped (RAmarl):
Character Stats
Attack Power Attack Power + Shifta Attack Power + Attribute % ATP Total
1050 1327 1050 1327
Damage Stats
Normal Strike Damage Normal Strike Damage
Critical Hit Heavy Strike Damage Heavy Strike Damage
Critical Hit
167 251 317 476

Same but with no Zalure and level 15 Shifta (RAmar):
Attack Power Attack Power + Shifta Attack Power + Attribute % ATP Total
1050 1275 1050 1275
Damage Stats
Normal Strike Damage Normal Strike Damage
Critical Hit Heavy Strike Damage Heavy Strike Damage
Critical Hit
121 181 229 343

And the difference will only rise on higher defense enemies, and on weapons with higher ATP. Also, a Charge/Berserk/Spirit special will up the damage for both.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-09-03 14:23 ]</font>


You are wrong.

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-04 09:54, Tycho wrote:
...
Edit: and in teamplay Ramar > Ramarl. who cares if it's the other way around in single play. Human rangers shouldn't get close enough for physical attacks to matter (dfp, evp), and shouldn't have to cast spells (mst). Ramar pwns her at HP, ATP, and ATA. There's no way Ramarl should be considered better. In team play, she's actually the worst RA. Face it.


This is assuming that there is a competent FOrce in the team and everyone stays together (both of these are very rare to some people). I don't know about your other characters, but I know in most of my games, it is almost always a RAmarl or HUnewearl doing the supporting.

And the part about HUman RAngers should never get close enough for those stats to matter:
I disagree. In my opinion, RAmarl can be an insanely effective melee fighter. They may be as effective, or more effective than characters who were meant to melee. It is very fun to pull out a Double Saber with a RAmarl and get into the front line action after you have finished your supporting duties.

Often, my RAmarl's Resta has saved some teamates from death, or helped cap off their HP (if they had already told the game to cast it when they get up).

Only time the RAmar is better than a RAmarl is when there is a competent FOrce in the team, and is able to stay with them all the time. Often this doesn't happen, so the group apart from the FOrce(s) has to make their own support; or another character has to do this anyways.



On 2004-09-04 10:16, yellow5 wrote:
You are wrong.

Do you have proof? As I said, I used the damage calculator, there may be some differences between what the game does and the calculator (due to variables), but it shouldn't change too much.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-09-04 10:28 ]</font>

[yellow5]

On 2004-09-04 10:25, Ketchup345 wrote:
Do you have proof? As I said, I used the damage calculator, there may be some differences between what the game does and the calculator (due to variables), but it shouldn't change too much.


Online, if a FO is in the team, RAmar does more damage than a RAmarl. That mere 115 ATP difference increases by another 50 or so points if both have Shifta on.

In addition, my RAmar equips an S-RANK NEEDLE with Zalure. My RAmar will always have the potential to do more damage than any RAmarl.

What? RAmarls can also use a Zalure Needle, too? Awesome. If you take this item out of the picture, my RAmar will still do more damage overall than a RAmarl if both had maxed ATP and ATA. See for yourself; use that calculator on this site.

To recap, if a FO is in the team, RAmar > RAmarl in terms of overall damage dealt. When a FO is not in the team, RAmar > RAmarl in terms of overall damage dealt.

kbai

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-04 10:54, yellow5 wrote:
Online, if a FO is in the team, RAmar does more damage than a RAmarl. That mere 115 ATP difference increases by another 50 or so points if both have Shifta on.

In addition, my RAmar equips an S-RANK NEEDLE with Zalure. My RAmar will always have the potential to do more damage than any RAmarl.

What? RAmarls can also use a Zalure Needle, too? Awesome. If you take this item out of the picture, my RAmar will still do more damage overall than a RAmarl if both had maxed ATP and ATA. See for yourself; use that calculator on this site.

To recap, if a FO is in the team, RAmar > RAmarl in terms of overall damage dealt. When a FO is not in the team, RAmar > RAmarl in terms of overall damage dealt.

kbai


If you read, I used the stats for the same ATP, and no FOrce in the team. Competent FORces are rare, and even if present, an ANdroid RAnger would be better.

I didn't count the zalure Needle because of not everyone having acess to one (online only, and English C-Mode games are very rare, and Episode 2 C-Mode is very difficult).

Also, you are wrong:
Maxed ATP, online, 0% unground Frozen Shooter, own support techs (no Zalure weapons), Ultimate Forest Booma:

RAmarl:
Character Stats
Attack Power Attack Power + Shifta Attack Power + Attribute % ATP Total
1395 1792 1395 1792
Damage Stats
Normal Strike Damage Normal Strike Damage
Critical Hit Heavy Strike Damage Heavy Strike Damage
Critical Hit
251 377 475 712

RAmar:
Character Stats
Attack Power Attack Power + Shifta Attack Power + Attribute % ATP Total
1510 1865 1510 1865
Damage Stats
Normal Strike Damage Normal Strike Damage
Critical Hit Heavy Strike Damage Heavy Strike Damage
Critical Hit
227 340 429 643

A RAmarl is still stronger. Again, Charge/Berserk/Spirit will add dameg, but I am unsure of the exact numbers, so I don't know if it would make a difference.


Edit:
Same as above, but with level 30 Zalure (only because the calulater doesn't go to level 33).

RAmarl:
Character Stats
Attack Power Attack Power + Shifta Attack Power + Attribute % ATP Total
1395 1792 1395 1792
Damage Stats
Normal Strike Damage Normal Strike Damage
Critical Hit Heavy Strike Damage Heavy Strike Damage
Critical Hit
265 398 501 752

Same as above, but with Level 30 Zalure and level 17 Shifta:
RAmar:
Character Stats
Attack Power Attack Power + Shifta Attack Power + Attribute % ATP Total
1510 1898 1510 1898
Damage Stats
Normal Strike Damage Normal Strike Damage
Critical Hit Heavy Strike Damage Heavy Strike Damage
Critical Hit
284 426 537 806

Same as just above but with level 15 Shifta:
Character Stats
Attack Power Attack Power + Shifta Attack Power + Attribute % ATP Total
1510 1865 1510 1865
Damage Stats
Normal Strike Damage Normal Strike Damage
Critical Hit Heavy Strike Damage Heavy Strike Damage
Critical Hit
278 417 526 789

A RAmar has to have a Zalure Needle or competent FOrce to do more damage than a RAmarl. A RAmarl can actually effect more enemies with their tech Zalure though.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-09-04 11:18 ]</font>

[yellow5]

There should be a shaking head emoticon, cuz that's what I'm doing right now.

I like how you make up some BS points just to make your argument valid. I let it go when you said competant FO's were difficult to find, but then you have the nerve to discredit one of my points (i.e. Zalure Needle)?

And then you miss my point entirely.

Let me make this as clear as possible: My RAmar with maxed ATP/ATA, level 15 Shifta, and a Zalure Needle will always, ALWAYS, have the POTENTIAL to do MORE damage than any RAmarl setup you try to make.

Summary: My RAmar > your RAmarl



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: yellow5 on 2004-09-04 11:42 ]</font>

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-04 11:39, yellow5 wrote:
There should be a shaking head emoticon, cuz that's what I'm doing right now.

I like how you make up some BS points just to make your argument valid. I let it go when you said competant FO's were difficult to find, but then you have the nerve to discredit one of my points (i.e. Zalure Needle)?

And then you miss my point entirely.

Let me make this as clear as possible: My RAmar with maxed ATP/ATA, level 15 Shifta, and a Zalure Needle will always, ALWAYS, have the POTENTIAL to do MORE damage than any RAmarl setup you try to make.

Summary: My RAmar > your RAmarl


I have played with 1 competent FOrce online. They are difficult to come by. Many people here would agree.
Also, Episode 2 C-Mode is very difficult (but possible with a competent team).

I did include the stats for a Zalure Needle in the edit.

It is a fact, RAmars NEED someone else or a Zalure weapon to do more damage than a RAmarl. Based on just a non-S-Rank weapon, and their own support techs, RAmarls will do more damage.

And there is a shaking head emoticon, three of them actually:
: ??? : = http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif
: no : = http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif
: nono : = http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif
(take out the spaces)

[yellow5]

Yeah, just like a RAmarl NEEDS her level 20 S/Z to do more damage than a RAmar without a Zalure Needle. Again, a RAmar doesn't need a competant FO to do more damage than a RAmarl. At least mine doesn't.

Dude, you are insulting all FOrces out there by saying that you have only played with one competant FOrce in all of your online career. I find offense to that, and I'm sure many here will agree.

The end.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: yellow5 on 2004-09-04 12:01 ]</font>

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-04 11:59, yellow5 wrote:
Yeah, just like a RAmarl NEEDS her level 20 S/Z to do more damage than a RAmar without a Zalure Needle. Again, a RAmar doesn't need a competant FO to do more damage than a RAmarl. At least mine doesn't.

Dude, you are insulting all FOrces out there by saying that you have only played with one competant FOrce in all of your online career. I find offense to that, and I'm sure many here will agree.

The end.


Competent FOrces are rare. FOrces online are rare (from what I see). There aren't many competent FOrces. Read Ian's guide above to find out what competent FOrces have to do. Very, very few players meet even more than 50% of that.

RAmars need to get either a special weapon, and/or a FOrce on the team to do more damage. RAmarls can use their own techniques to do more damage than RAmars taking care of themselves.

RAmarls: Best RAnger when there is no competent FOrce (or possibly HUnewearl) around.
RAmars: Better when there is a competent FOrce (or a HUnewearl/RAmarl) around. Androids are better in this situation though.

Quote from Ian's guide on a good/competent support FOrce:

Remember. You are the glue that holds the team together. You are rarer than the rarest weapon. You are more valuable than the best-selling armor. You are an actual GOOD support Force, and you r teh 1337. Be proud of yourself.

[yellow5]

On 2004-09-04 12:16, Ketchup345 wrote:


On 2004-09-04 11:59, yellow5 wrote:
Yeah, just like a RAmarl NEEDS her level 20 S/Z to do more damage than a RAmar without a Zalure Needle. Again, a RAmar doesn't need a competant FO to do more damage than a RAmarl. At least mine doesn't.

Dude, you are insulting all FOrces out there by saying that you have only played with one competant FOrce in all of your online career. I find offense to that, and I'm sure many here will agree.

The end.


Competent FOrces are rare. FOrces online are rare (from what I see). There aren't many competent FOrces. Read Ian's guide above to find out what competent FOrces have to do. Very, very few players meet even more than 50% of that.

RAmars need to get either a special weapon, and/or a FOrce on the team to do more damage. RAmarls can use their own techniques to do more damage than RAmars taking care of themselves.

RAmarls: Best RAnger when there is no competent FOrce (or possibly HUnewearl) around.
RAmars: Better when there is a competent FOrce (or a HUnewearl/RAmarl) around. Androids are better in this situation though.

Quote from Ian's guide on a good/competent support FOrce:

Remember. You are the glue that holds the team together. You are rarer than the rarest weapon. You are more valuable than the best-selling armor. You are an actual GOOD support Force, and you r teh 1337. Be proud of yourself.



Open up your eyes, or at least get out of Deneb 9.

Enough of this. I'm going to go play PSO online with my RAmar and do more damage than the RAmarls. Then, I'm going to bring my FOmar online and support the hell out of the team while dealing sufficient damage with my Tempest Vulcan (50% hit). If you play on my team, there's almost NEVER a period where you fight without Shifta/Deband...unless, of course, you die. Then, you get it immediately after I revive you with a Moon Atomizer (Reverser is too slow for me). http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Saiffy]

On 2004-09-04 12:29, yellow5 wrote:


On 2004-09-04 12:16, Ketchup345 wrote:


On 2004-09-04 11:59, yellow5 wrote:
Yeah, just like a RAmarl NEEDS her level 20 S/Z to do more damage than a RAmar without a Zalure Needle. Again, a RAmar doesn't need a competant FO to do more damage than a RAmarl. At least mine doesn't.

Dude, you are insulting all FOrces out there by saying that you have only played with one competant FOrce in all of your online career. I find offense to that, and I'm sure many here will agree.

The end.


Competent FOrces are rare. FOrces online are rare (from what I see). There aren't many competent FOrces. Read Ian's guide above to find out what competent FOrces have to do. Very, very few players meet even more than 50% of that.

RAmars need to get either a special weapon, and/or a FOrce on the team to do more damage. RAmarls can use their own techniques to do more damage than RAmars taking care of themselves.

RAmarls: Best RAnger when there is no competent FOrce (or possibly HUnewearl) around.
RAmars: Better when there is a competent FOrce (or a HUnewearl/RAmarl) around. Androids are better in this situation though.

Quote from Ian's guide on a good/competent support FOrce:

Remember. You are the glue that holds the team together. You are rarer than the rarest weapon. You are more valuable than the best-selling armor. You are an actual GOOD support Force, and you r teh 1337. Be proud of yourself.



Open up your eyes, or at least get out of Deneb 9.

Enough of this. I'm going to go play PSO online with my RAmar and do more damage than the RAmarls. Then, I'm going to bring my FOmar online and support the hell out of the team while dealing sufficient damage with my Tempest Vulcan (50% hit). If you play on my team, there's almost NEVER a period where you fight without Shifta/Deband...unless, of course, you die. Then, you get it immediately after I revive you with a Moon Atomizer (Reverser is too slow for me). http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Ketchup plays in ******* with the rest of the good PSOWers, I doubt he/she steps foot in Den00b 9 too much.

That fact is RAmarls have the better potential to do damage then RAmars, Ketchup has brought up numerous numbers and calculations stating that. I agree though, with a good force RAmars can do damage, but until you pair every RAmar with a good support force, RAmarls will do more damage

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-04 12:29, yellow5 wrote:
Open up your eyes, or at least get out of Deneb 9.

Enough of this. I'm going to go play PSO online with my RAmar and do more damage than the RAmarls. Then, I'm going to bring my FOmar online and support the hell out of the team while dealing sufficient damage with my Tempest Vulcan (50% hit). If you play on my team, there's almost NEVER a period where you fight without Shifta/Deband...unless, of course, you die. Then, you get it immediately after I revive you with a Moon Atomizer (Reverser is too slow for me). http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


I don't play in Deneb. I do have my eyes open. Less than 1/10 players I see are FOrces.

As I said, it is impossible for a RAmar to do more damage than a RAmarl without the aid of any S-Ranks or any other players.

And thanks Saiff. You condensed everything I'm trying to say in an easier to understand way.

[yellow5]

On 2004-09-04 12:54, Saiffwin wrote:


On 2004-09-04 12:29, yellow5 wrote:


On 2004-09-04 12:16, Ketchup345 wrote:


On 2004-09-04 11:59, yellow5 wrote:
Yeah, just like a RAmarl NEEDS her level 20 S/Z to do more damage than a RAmar without a Zalure Needle. Again, a RAmar doesn't need a competant FO to do more damage than a RAmarl. At least mine doesn't.

Dude, you are insulting all FOrces out there by saying that you have only played with one competant FOrce in all of your online career. I find offense to that, and I'm sure many here will agree.

The end.


Competent FOrces are rare. FOrces online are rare (from what I see). There aren't many competent FOrces. Read Ian's guide above to find out what competent FOrces have to do. Very, very few players meet even more than 50% of that.

RAmars need to get either a special weapon, and/or a FOrce on the team to do more damage. RAmarls can use their own techniques to do more damage than RAmars taking care of themselves.

RAmarls: Best RAnger when there is no competent FOrce (or possibly HUnewearl) around.
RAmars: Better when there is a competent FOrce (or a HUnewearl/RAmarl) around. Androids are better in this situation though.

Quote from Ian's guide on a good/competent support FOrce:

Remember. You are the glue that holds the team together. You are rarer than the rarest weapon. You are more valuable than the best-selling armor. You are an actual GOOD support Force, and you r teh 1337. Be proud of yourself.



Open up your eyes, or at least get out of Deneb 9.

Enough of this. I'm going to go play PSO online with my RAmar and do more damage than the RAmarls. Then, I'm going to bring my FOmar online and support the hell out of the team while dealing sufficient damage with my Tempest Vulcan (50% hit). If you play on my team, there's almost NEVER a period where you fight without Shifta/Deband...unless, of course, you die. Then, you get it immediately after I revive you with a Moon Atomizer (Reverser is too slow for me). http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Ketchup plays in ******* with the rest of the good PSOWers, I doubt he/she steps foot in Den00b 9 too much.

That fact is RAmarls have the better potential to do damage then RAmars, Ketchup has brought up numerous numbers and calculations stating that. I agree though, with a good force RAmars can do damage, but until you pair every RAmar with a good support force, RAmarls will do more damage



If Ketchup plays on Altair 2/4 (ha!), and has only played with 1 (one) competant FOrce, doesn't that suggest that everyone there sucks as a FO? That's what I'm getting, but I could be wrong...

With the addition of S-Rank specials, the RAmar has greater potential than the RAmarl. Did you even read my posts?

Deja vu. This is exactly how it played out the last time there was a RAnger debate. This is exactly how the people at IGN reacted when I stated my opinions and facts. Stop being such narrowminded, jump-on-the-bandwagon followers. Use your own head to come up with good builds, not what this website suggests. In the beginning, word of mouth led many to believe that RAmarls were better support characters. Things have changed (for the better). RAmars are now competant support players. It now depends on the individual players to make use of this added potential granted by Sonic Team.

We all know why people don't like RAmars: appearance. Just because BERNIE pwns Boomas and goes "Gyaaa!" doesn't mean you should dismiss RAmars. Even MOME has potential. He just needs an S-RANK NEEDLE. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[KaFKa]

ill make it easier for all you nubs that think RAmar is good.

RAmarl > RAcast > RAcaseal > RAmar

im sure you kids surely have heard of something other than attacks, theres this thing called offensive techs. so, even if you have a force on your team, you can play any position not filled. RAmar is a one-trick pony, learn to live with it and stop preaching the gospel of a useless char.

[yellow5]

On 2004-09-04 13:12, KaFKa wrote:
ill make it easier for all you nubs that think RAmar is good.

RAmarl > RAcast > RAcaseal > RAmar

im sure you kids surely have heard of something other than attacks, theres this thing called offensive techs. so, even if you have a force on your team, you can play any position not filled. RAmar is a one-trick pony, learn to live with it and stop preaching the gospel of a useless char.



Any player who uses offensive techs to deal damage and isn't a FOrce should take the game, eat it, and jump off a bridge.

[KaFKa]

On 2004-09-04 13:17, yellow5 wrote:


On 2004-09-04 13:12, KaFKa wrote:
ill make it easier for all you nubs that think RAmar is good.

RAmarl > RAcast > RAcaseal > RAmar

im sure you kids surely have heard of something other than attacks, theres this thing called offensive techs. so, even if you have a force on your team, you can play any position not filled. RAmar is a one-trick pony, learn to live with it and stop preaching the gospel of a useless char.



Any player who uses offensive techs to deal damage and isn't a FOrce should take the game, eat it, and jump off a bridge.


oh yes, im such an idiot for using my HUnewearl's techs to damage packs of enemies at range instead of walking into their attacks. *rolls eyes*

please, shut the fuck up you idiot, and follow your own advice.

[Gjl]

On 2004-09-04 13:12, KaFKa wrote:
ill make it easier for all you nubs that think RAmar is good.

RAmarl > RAcast > RAcaseal > RAmar

im sure you kids surely have heard of something other than attacks, theres this thing called offensive techs. so, even if you have a force on your team, you can play any position not filled. RAmar is a one-trick pony, learn to live with it and stop preaching the gospel of a useless char.



Even forces that use techs offensive techs online will do shit damage http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif.

IMO RAcast > RAmarl. The lack of support FOs online is just a huge exaggeration and Ian's guide is not about a competent support FO but rather a PERFECT support FO. Don't try telling me you have to do everything Ian points out to be even 'competent' http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif. Most FOs at least have the two brain cells required to cast shifta+deband when asked and that's all you need to outclass the RAmarl's lvl 20 techs including zalure (which can be more than made up with a Zalure needle, which I have thank you). If you're having trouble with CMode then go Alcyone 6 and play with the JP people http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

[kazuma56]

Kef, How am I a noob? just because I gave my opinion on the topic doens't make me a noob, I don't understand why men (or teens, not sure of your age) can't talk like regular people without swearing.... man, I'm way to mature from my age.

Anyway, the way i see it, if someone can play a RAcast offline and say that they kick ass, then HTF can a RAmar be worse than him? the reason why I THINK RAmarls are preffered is because you don't have to think that much while playing that char, you go in a room, and if you're not strong enough to handle it, you cast S/D and J/Z and proceed to then end, if your strong enough to handle a room, you cast S/J (or Zalure) and wail on the enemies and continue to end.

Now playing any other Ranger, you will have to know how to conduct yourself in rooms if your underleveled and make sure keep track of enemy placement and such to survive (I.E Use Tactics) instead of just following a routine every stage (S/D,J/Z till end).

Like me and a bunch of others in character debates have said It's the PLAYER that makes the class, not the class itself , you people just seem to chose class by what you see and not what you can learn to decrease X classes deficiencies.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kazuma56 on 2004-09-04 13:35 ]</font>

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-04 13:11, yellow5 wrote:
If Ketchup plays on Altair 2/4 (ha!), and has only played with 1 (one) competant FOrce, doesn't that suggest that everyone there sucks as a FO? That's what I'm getting, but I could be wrong...

With the addition of S-Rank specials, the RAmar has greater potential than the RAmarl. Did you even read my posts?

Deja vu. This is exactly how it played out the last time there was a RAnger debate. This is exactly how the people at IGN reacted when I stated my opinions and facts. Stop being such narrowminded, jump-on-the-bandwagon followers. Use your own head to come up with good builds, not what this website suggests. In the beginning, word of mouth led many to believe that RAmarls were better support characters. Things have changed (for the better). RAmars are now competant support players. It now depends on the individual players to make use of this added potential granted by Sonic Team.

We all know why people don't like RAmars: appearance. Just because BERNIE pwns Boomas and goes "Gyaaa!" doesn't mean you should dismiss RAmars. Even MOME has potential. He just needs an S-RANK NEEDLE. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


I have never played in Altair 2-4. Is that a character named Ketchup? I don't have any characters named Ketchup (check the character pic sticky above).

Fact is:
RAmars need to have other things besides their techs to do more damage with the same non-S-Rank weapon. They need to use a Zalure weapon or have a competent FOrce.

RAmarls do more damage without Zalure weapons or a FOrce.

RAmarls have the ability to do anything in the game easily (although being a pure tech RAmarl is fairly tough). They have the ability to support a team. They can do melee and ranged attacks very effectively. RAmarls can use their S-Rank specials for some better special, such as Geist, Gush, Berserk, or Spirit.

And RAmarls generally look better than RAmars.

Mome can never be useful. Ever.

[kazuma56]

RAmarls do more damage without Zalure weapons or a FOrce.


But by the time she maxes out ATP and has lvl 20 S/D, those other abilities seem worthless.....unless she still dies quickly because of enemies that have HP based attacks *cough Baranz *cough*

[Gjl]

On 2004-09-04 13:22, KaFKa wrote:


On 2004-09-04 13:17, yellow5 wrote:


On 2004-09-04 13:12, KaFKa wrote:
ill make it easier for all you nubs that think RAmar is good.

RAmarl > RAcast > RAcaseal > RAmar

im sure you kids surely have heard of something other than attacks, theres this thing called offensive techs. so, even if you have a force on your team, you can play any position not filled. RAmar is a one-trick pony, learn to live with it and stop preaching the gospel of a useless char.



Any player who uses offensive techs to deal damage and isn't a FOrce should take the game, eat it, and jump off a bridge.


oh yes, im such an idiot for using my HUnewearl's techs to damage packs of enemies at range instead of walking into their attacks. *rolls eyes*

please, shut the fuck up you idiot, and follow your own advice.



Max MST: 1177
Rafoie merge equipped
Damage to a Bartle in Ult Forest online: 303 offline: 404. Bearing in mind this is the most damage you can possibly do in Ultimate, I don't see how this is useful other than for draining TP. Ever heard of slicers or gathering up enemies for sword/partisan attacks? You'll be doing a shitload more damage at least. Since enemies on Ult are so damn fast it won't take more than a couple of seconds to gather them up anyway and you'll be doing much more damage, saving you time overall http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif.

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-04 13:38, kazuma56 wrote:
But by the time she maxes out ATP and has lvl 20 S/D, those other abilities seem worthless.....unless she still dies quickly because of enemies that have HP based attacks *cough Baranz *cough*


Jellen and Zalure will still be useful, even at maxed ATP. Especially at bosses. RAmarls may be able to shave a few hits off of certain bosses.

A Baranz will screw over a RAmar more than a RAmarl.

[yellow5]

On 2004-09-04 13:34, Ketchup345 wrote:


On 2004-09-04 13:11, yellow5 wrote:
If Ketchup plays on Altair 2/4 (ha!), and has only played with 1 (one) competant FOrce, doesn't that suggest that everyone there sucks as a FO? That's what I'm getting, but I could be wrong...

With the addition of S-Rank specials, the RAmar has greater potential than the RAmarl. Did you even read my posts?

Deja vu. This is exactly how it played out the last time there was a RAnger debate. This is exactly how the people at IGN reacted when I stated my opinions and facts. Stop being such narrowminded, jump-on-the-bandwagon followers. Use your own head to come up with good builds, not what this website suggests. In the beginning, word of mouth led many to believe that RAmarls were better support characters. Things have changed (for the better). RAmars are now competant support players. It now depends on the individual players to make use of this added potential granted by Sonic Team.

We all know why people don't like RAmars: appearance. Just because BERNIE pwns Boomas and goes "Gyaaa!" doesn't mean you should dismiss RAmars. Even MOME has potential. He just needs an S-RANK NEEDLE. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


I have never played in Altair 2-4. Is that a character named Ketchup? I don't have any characters named Ketchup (check the character pic sticky above).

Fact is:
RAmars need to have other things besides their techs to do more damage with the same non-S-Rank weapon. They need to use a Zalure weapon or have a competent FOrce.

RAmarls do more damage without Zalure weapons or a FOrce.

RAmarls have the ability to do anything in the game easily (although being a pure tech RAmarl is fairly tough). They have the ability to support a team. They can do melee and ranged attacks very effectively. RAmarls can use their S-Rank specials for some better special, such as Geist, Gush, Berserk, or Spirit.

And RAmarls generally look better than RAmars.

Mome can never be useful. Ever.



It was a joke, and you didn't answer my question again. If you have only played with one competant FOrce, what are you saying about the skill of the other people you play with? Hmmm?

Dude, just because Principal Tyrell favors the RAmar class and designed them custom Lacomium-Plated Battle Suits doesn't mean you shouldn't use them. Also, RAmar spelled backwards is ramAR. 'Nuff said.

[kazuma56]

Jellen and Zalure will still be useful, even at maxed ATP. Especially at bosses. RAmarls may be able to shave a few hits off of certain bosses.

A Baranz will screw over a RAmar more than a RAmarl.


Not offline, it has never killed me with my current 1580 (or was t 90) HP, the most I have ever lost was like 600-700 HP from a direct attack.

As for bosses, using it on Sil Dragon is pointless because I can kill it before it goes into drill stage, De rol lie is sorta pointless when I have my Baranz/Red Scorpio equipped, Vol Opt is impervious to it, and Falz is a ***** anyway, like-wise in ep.2, heck I can kill flow in 5-6 mins offline at my lvl.... but Gal Gryphon it might be helpful, because I always had probs with him.... haven't fought him since lvl 120 though.

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-04 13:49, yellow5 wrote:
It was a joke, and you didn't answer my question again. If you have only played with one competant FOrce, what are you saying about the skill of the other people you play with? Hmmm?

Dude, just because Principal Tyrell favors the RAmar class and designed them custom Lacomium-Plated Battle Suits doesn't mean you shouldn't use them. Also, RAmar spelled backwards is ramAR. 'Nuff said.


I do know there was a character running around with the name Ketchup. I thought you had seen him.

The other FOrces I have played with aren't that good, and could use some training.

There are very few FOrces online. Less than 1 per team. Also, not everyone has the patience or skill to get a character through Episode 2 C-Mode.

RAmars [b]NEED[/b a Zalure weapon or FOrce to do more damage than a RAmarl. RAmarl's can use the S-Rank to get a more poweful special, such as Berserk or Spirit. This may change the favor back to the RAmarls.



On 2004-09-04 13:52, kazuma56 wrote:
Not offline, it has never killed me with my current 1580 (or was t 90) HP, the most I have ever lost was like 600-700 HP from a direct attack.

As for bosses, using it on Sil Dragon is pointless because I can kill it before it goes into drill stage, De rol lie is sorta pointless when I have my Baranz/Red Scorpio equipped, Vol Opt is impervious to it, and Falz is a ***** anyway, like-wise in ep.2, heck I can kill flow in 5-6 mins offline at my lvl.... but Gal Gryphon it might be helpful, because I always had probs with him.... haven't fought him since lvl 120 though.

That's offline. Online in the 3 Baranz part of TTF, you could easily be royally screwed much eariler than a RAmarl would.

Jellen/Zalure will still help make the Sil Dragon and De Rol Lie faster; and will shave off hits from Falz, Flow. RAmarls can also take less damage from some attacks from bosses (De Rol Lie's tentacles are EVP dodgable; the Dragon's stomp may be DFP based; and the RAmarl will be knocked over more easily at the last bosses).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-09-04 14:18 ]</font>

[Zinger314]

using it on Sil Dragon is pointless because I can kill it before it goes into drill stage

What weapon are you using? It must have some ridicolous percents...

And RAmarls are just better because they can heal a good portion of their HP with Resta. Ramars heal virtually nothing.

[Gjl]

On 2004-09-04 14:01, Zinger314 wrote:

using it on Sil Dragon is pointless because I can kill it before it goes into drill stage

What weapon are you using? It must have some ridicolous percents...

And RAmarls are just better because they can heal a good portion of their HP with Resta. Ramars heal virtually nothing.



Actually my RAcast can do that. With a needle you can do the damage required to kill him provided you have enough ATP and attack at the right moment so you can get 2 shots in at least before he flies away. If he does managed to fly away then he gets pwned by my Yas-9ks http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

[RadiantLegend]

Ramar = Ramarl = Racast = Racaseal

Just play with who you like.... >.< whatever happened to that?

[Saiffy]

On 2004-09-04 13:11, yellow5 wrote:


On 2004-09-04 12:54, Saiffwin wrote:


On 2004-09-04 12:29, yellow5 wrote:


On 2004-09-04 12:16, Ketchup345 wrote:


On 2004-09-04 11:59, yellow5 wrote:
Yeah, just like a RAmarl NEEDS her level 20 S/Z to do more damage than a RAmar without a Zalure Needle. Again, a RAmar doesn't need a competant FO to do more damage than a RAmarl. At least mine doesn't.

Dude, you are insulting all FOrces out there by saying that you have only played with one competant FOrce in all of your online career. I find offense to that, and I'm sure many here will agree.

The end.


Competent FOrces are rare. FOrces online are rare (from what I see). There aren't many competent FOrces. Read Ian's guide above to find out what competent FOrces have to do. Very, very few players meet even more than 50% of that.

RAmars need to get either a special weapon, and/or a FOrce on the team to do more damage. RAmarls can use their own techniques to do more damage than RAmars taking care of themselves.

RAmarls: Best RAnger when there is no competent FOrce (or possibly HUnewearl) around.
RAmars: Better when there is a competent FOrce (or a HUnewearl/RAmarl) around. Androids are better in this situation though.

Quote from Ian's guide on a good/competent support FOrce:

Remember. You are the glue that holds the team together. You are rarer than the rarest weapon. You are more valuable than the best-selling armor. You are an actual GOOD support Force, and you r teh 1337. Be proud of yourself.



Open up your eyes, or at least get out of Deneb 9.

Enough of this. I'm going to go play PSO online with my RAmar and do more damage than the RAmarls. Then, I'm going to bring my FOmar online and support the hell out of the team while dealing sufficient damage with my Tempest Vulcan (50% hit). If you play on my team, there's almost NEVER a period where you fight without Shifta/Deband...unless, of course, you die. Then, you get it immediately after I revive you with a Moon Atomizer (Reverser is too slow for me). http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Ketchup plays in ******* with the rest of the good PSOWers, I doubt he/she steps foot in Den00b 9 too much.

That fact is RAmarls have the better potential to do damage then RAmars, Ketchup has brought up numerous numbers and calculations stating that. I agree though, with a good force RAmars can do damage, but until you pair every RAmar with a good support force, RAmarls will do more damage



If Ketchup plays on Altair 2/4 (ha!), and has only played with 1 (one) competant FOrce, doesn't that suggest that everyone there sucks as a FO? That's what I'm getting, but I could be wrong...

With the addition of S-Rank specials, the RAmar has greater potential than the RAmarl. Did you even read my posts?

Deja vu. This is exactly how it played out the last time there was a RAnger debate. This is exactly how the people at IGN reacted when I stated my opinions and facts. Stop being such narrowminded, jump-on-the-bandwagon followers. Use your own head to come up with good builds, not what this website suggests. In the beginning, word of mouth led many to believe that RAmarls were better support characters. Things have changed (for the better). RAmars are now competant support players. It now depends on the individual players to make use of this added potential granted by Sonic Team.

We all know why people don't like RAmars: appearance. Just because BERNIE pwns Boomas and goes "Gyaaa!" doesn't mean you should dismiss RAmars. Even MOME has potential. He just needs an S-RANK NEEDLE. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


I am not "jumping on the bandwagon" I personally would choose a RAcast or RAcaseal as my main ranger.

Look, the fact is Ketchup is getting TONS of valid points that state that RAmarls can do more damage, you are just dismissing them because you wuv your RAmar so much. My main is a FOmar, if people say a FOmarl can support better then FOmar(which they can) do I tear them apart? No, I would state I chose FOmar cause I believe they can melee better then FOmarl. Now if someone says my FOmar looks girly, then I would eat there inards, along with some Ratis to help http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

In the end it's personal taste what you choose to play. But if you look at it RAmarls can do more damage, without a Zalure s-rank needle or a good force

BTW, I don't hate Bernie just cause I want his 'The Knack' http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



On 2004-09-04 13:12, KaFKa wrote:
ill make it easier for all you nubs that think RAmar is good.

RAmarl > RAcast > RAcaseal > RAmar

im sure you kids surely have heard of something other than attacks, theres this thing called offensive techs. so, even if you have a force on your team, you can play any position not filled. RAmar is a one-trick pony, learn to live with it and stop preaching the gospel of a useless char.


A-fucking-men http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

edit: typos

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saiffwin on 2004-09-04 14:33 ]</font>

[yellow5]

I'm not dismissing any of Ketchup's points. YOU people are dismissing my point about the Zalure Needle enabling the RAmar to do more damage than a RAmarl. It's a fact. Even Ketchup realizes this point, which is all that I wanted to illustrate. My work here is done.

[Saiffy]

On 2004-09-04 14:41, yellow5 wrote:
I'm not dismissing any of Ketchup's points. YOU people are dismissing my point about the Zalure Needle enabling the RAmar to do more damage than a RAmarl. It's a fact. Even Ketchup realizes this point, which is all that I wanted to illustrate. My work here is done.


I'm so sorry, that's right every ranger has access to a zalure needle, therefore they can do more damage, how could I be SO stupid

[Asura_UK]

Androids characters are easier when you are staring out because they dont need to waste time looking for technique disks to get all their abilities. They have traps right from the beginning which I think is cool.

My next character when im finished with my Force will be a RAcaseal. Not many people like them because of their appearance, so atleast I will be unique. I agree though, why does a robot need metal hair, a metal skirt, and metal boobies. Just looks odd. I like how they have the best defense of all the rangers though.

[Gjl]

On 2004-09-04 16:54, Asura_UK wrote:
Androids characters are easier when you are staring out because they dont need to waste time looking for technique disks to get all their abilities. They have traps right from the beginning which I think is cool.

My next character when im finished with my Force will be a RAcaseal. Not many people like them because of their appearance, so atleast I will be unique. I agree though, why does a robot need metal hair, a metal skirt, and metal boobies. Just looks odd. I like how they have the best defense of all the rangers though.


Seriously if you don't like how they look, why the hell are you making one? And who the hell needs defense on a ranger? o.O

[Garm]

like everyone said: try and find your style of playing

RAmar has great looks, great ata and atp.
Ramarl avarage looks (2nd best hair though) and good ata.
RAcaseal has traps, most def, less ata than RAmarl but better than RAcast, best looks in the game and is rare online.
RAcast has almost hunter ata and atp (still more ata than the HUcaseal but shes close) plain ugley looks and he clanks (wich makes up for the ATA)

my fav is the RAcaseal followed by the RAmar. RAmarl is my least fav RA since shes boring. (all ra's are boring at high lvls since they can do full hard combos without missing and paralyse a room in 3 secs with a needle, or freeze with a FS/SQ)

and remember this is all said before and my opinion!

[Tycho]

You people shouldn't look at Lvl 1 characters. For competent players, an S-rank is accesible, and Ramarl is thus inferior to Ramar, to those players. And I'm assuming we're not having a fight about what is the best class for newbies to use.

And Ketchup? Ofcourse I assume having a good force. Jesus, I barely play in teams without one. Because in most of the games I play, I AM the Force! I know you didn't play with me yet, but the only moment you can't have a good Fo, is when you don't want to because you WANT Ramarl to be better. No offence to the class or to you, but anyway, you have my card if you want a real Fo for a change. I know my job.

And I thik Racast would thus be best. Not the one I like most, but the most potential Ranger. If I want to play the role of a Ra or a Hu, no problem. I have high level Force friends myself. If your Fo is not what you want them to be, teach them to. It's not that hard. The only moments I don't do my job right away is when I'm reeaally tired or am doing other things. I do make mistakes at times, like when I accidently use my PB because it's stealing my buttons, or when I'm low on HP and when I want to heal I find out my tp is gone, but other than that (and Baranz etc), I'll manage.

Just gimme a shout sometime, I'll show you in a game if you want.

[Asura_UK]

On 2004-09-05 02:37, Gjl wrote:


On 2004-09-04 16:54, Asura_UK wrote:
Androids characters are easier when you are staring out because they dont need to waste time looking for technique disks to get all their abilities. They have traps right from the beginning which I think is cool.

My next character when im finished with my Force will be a RAcaseal. Not many people like them because of their appearance, so atleast I will be unique. I agree though, why does a robot need metal hair, a metal skirt, and metal boobies. Just looks odd. I like how they have the best defense of all the rangers though.


Seriously if you don't like how they look, why the hell are you making one? And who the hell needs defense on a ranger? o.O




Well ive been playing the game for years and I dont think ive ever had a RAcaseal over LV 150 so it would be nice to have a proper go with one of them for a change. Having loads of defense is not a bad thing http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Just because you are a Ranger doesnt mean you wont get attacked.

[Jasam]

uhhh..... I hate to say it but the RAmarl has the better arguements here, the only one the Ramar has is S-rank needle(which the Ramarl can use as well, and if she did, with the higher shifta level i think she will STILL outdamige him, and if not, it will only be about 10 damige diffrence...). If he has a competent FO, then the RAcast is better. Plus don't forget the Ramars rubbish resta, its so bad he often has to use mates to heal fast enouth, where as the Ramarl wouldn't.

[Gjl]

On 2004-09-05 03:58, Garm wrote:
like everyone said: try and find your style of playing

RAmar has great looks, great ata and atp.
Ramarl avarage looks (2nd best hair though) and good ata.
RAcaseal has traps, most def, less ata than RAmarl but better than RAcast, best looks in the game and is rare online.
RAcast has almost hunter ata and atp (still more ata than the HUcaseal but shes close) plain ugley looks and he clanks (wich makes up for the ATA)

my fav is the RAcaseal followed by the RAmar. RAmarl is my least fav RA since shes boring. (all ra's are boring at high lvls since they can do full hard combos without missing and paralyse a room in 3 secs with a needle, or freeze with a FS/SQ)

and remember this is all said before and my opinion!



Ok I'm not going to say anything other than state that you find RAmars to be hawt and you think RAcaseals are the secksiest character in the game, LOL http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif.

Plain ugly looks?
http://img82.exs.cx/img82/557/GJLyas9k2.png
(Yes I do use this pic too often)

Oh, and I remember you saying that HUmars had a better doublesaber animation than the HUcaseal http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif.

Also I'd like to state that at a certain point with ANY of the RAs you will have enough ATA to not miss so the ATA difference is a moot point in any argument. Also RAcast has traps too http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

IMO I like the clanky noise on the RAcast; kind of cute actually LOL. Really the plastic sounding footsteps make the other androids sound like they are wearing cheap plastic sandals or some equally horrible.

RAcaseals are rare because they wear unsightly metallic frocks, coupled with stupid spaghettified metal hair and they have a gormless facial expression. And nobody needs a RA to do any tanking thank you, there are enough HUcasts and HUmars to act as meatshields online.

Sonic Team obviously love RAcasts since they spared them the embarassment of having a dumbass NPC character. RAmars got Bernie and MOME (!!!), RAcaseals got Elenore and Ult, FOmarls got Alicia and Fonewms got Montague. What a suprise, they also happen to be the ugliest player classes http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif. The mindless robot drones in Secret Delivery do NOT count thank you since that quest must have been deliberately fuxxed up for Sonic Team to have Bernie AND Elenore in the same quest PLUS a HUnewearl wielding a RIFLE (?!?!). And yes AMY from Sonic Team does use a RAcaseal (I think), but AMY sucked in all the Sonic games and was a fucking pain in the ass, especially when Sonic Team decided they hated us enough to have her voice acted.

[Gjl]

Well ive been playing the game for years and I dont think ive ever had a RAcaseal over LV 150 so it would be nice to have a proper go with one of them for a change. Having loads of defense is not a bad thing http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Just because you are a Ranger doesnt mean you wont get attacked.


If you're good then you will hardly be attacked. Also in a team you will RARELY be attacked.

[Asura_UK]

On 2004-09-05 08:13, Gjl wrote:


Well ive been playing the game for years and I dont think ive ever had a RAcaseal over LV 150 so it would be nice to have a proper go with one of them for a change. Having loads of defense is not a bad thing http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Just because you are a Ranger doesnt mean you wont get attacked.


If you're good then you will hardly be attacked. Also in a team you will RARELY be attacked.




Ok but when you do rarely get attacked atleast youll be solid with your 688 DFP. I think Defense Power is one of the good stats to have. RAcaseal is pretty cool you have to admit.

[Gjl]

Ok but when you do rarely get attacked atleast youll be solid with your 688 DFP. I think Defense Power is one of the good stats to have.


If it's rare than getting hurt isn't a worry; it's as simple as that. It's far more important for hunters who will be constantly hurt don't you think?



RAcaseal is pretty cool you have to admit.


Please don't try to make my mind up for me...

[Swan]

Rangers are indeed 1337. as for which specific one? RAmar, I'd say. it's nicely ballanced. plus TP!

[KaFKa]

On 2004-09-05 13:55, Swan wrote:
Rangers are indeed 1337. as for which specific one? RAmar, I'd say. it's nicely ballanced. plus TP!



okay son, before you get me going on the RA/HU argument, realize this. your precious RAmar takes no skill, is useless in solo and 2-3 player teams, and also looks like ass. you must come to realize this, young grasshopper.

oh, and what does TP have to do with anything? if you want to go with that logic RAmarl has you beat in every single way. she also has you beat in the "balanced" argument. the RAmar is frontloaded, with no endgame. whereas the others dont taper off so cruelly.

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-05 13:55, Swan wrote:
Rangers are indeed 1337. as for which specific one? RAmar, I'd say. it's nicely ballanced. plus TP!


Did you see anything I wrote? >.<

RAmarl is better unless there is a competent FOrce (probably less than 20% of players use a FOrce often online, and not all are competent at that job) in the team, or the RAmar is using a Zalure weapon. But the RAmarl may be able to negate the difference by using a Berserk or Spirit weapon (not quite sure). Even if there is a competent FOrce on the team, an android RAnger is better than the RAmar.

RAmar's MST/TP is near worthless. He has very little, and heals almost nothing with his Resta (about 3 to heal fully, RAmarls often only need 2).

Yeah, Tycho, I don't I have ever really played with you much, unless it was your other characters or only for a very short game.

No competent FOrce on the team- RAmarl (very rarely will RAmars do better here {unless there is a support HUnewearl in the team that stays with the party at all times}, especially since the RAmarl may be able to use a Berserk/Spirit Needle to negate the effects of the Zalure Needle).
Competent FOrce on the team- RAcast or RAcaseal (most likely RAcast if you can stand the clunking >.<)

[iamthehbomb]

I figured I might as well get my two cents in here too. I've never played online, so I can't really address the issues surrounding that. BUT, I'm a very experienced offline player. I'm especially experienced with the RAmar class (played one up to lv. 111 then recreated and played up to lv. 125). It was my first character class and therefore near and dear to my heart - although that doesn't cloud my judgment regarding his shortcomings. Actually, his deficiencies are the reason I play him. The RAmar class is a challenge to play and fun because of that fact. Yes, he is lacking in the MST category and doesn't have Jellen or Zalure. Yes, his Shifta and Deband are only lv. 15. SO WHAT! None of those things cripple the character. He is still very playable and enjoyable.

I don't get all this obsession with his magic stat. "His resta blows blah blah blah." Are you trying to tell me resta is the only way that you heal your character? There are alternate methods --> mono/di/trimates and star atomizers. Personally I never die because of my poor resta. I carry around dimates and trimates also. The only reason I die with him is because of my own stupidity or laziness or a combination of both. His level 15 Shifta and Deband are work perfectly fine for me. I kill everything in one or two combos anyways. As far as offensive techs go, I don't use them with a RAmar - they just make him less effective. Ranging and melee do the job with him.

The argument against a RAmar's looks are mostly subjective. Some people are too impatient or just suck at creating a char. As a result, they have a stupid looking character. I took the time to make my RAmar look cool and I'm happy with the result. It is the same for every character class. If you take the time to tinker and adjust, every class can look pretty cool. Except, that is, the FOnewm class. No matter WHAT you do to that char it always comes out looking like an ugly, retarded hippie on platforms.

The ATP, ATA, and DFP between the RAmar and RAmarl classes are all negligible. It basically comes down to two things between them - MST and looks. I've already said looks are subjective and different from person to person. And the MST issue really isn't that big of a deal. The RAmar's lack of MST doesn't impede him like you all claim.

BOTTOM LINE: Stop hating on the RAmar. It seems those who play RAmarls have to constantly be throwing the RAmar's negatives in the faces of those who play them. We already know about them. No need to get so heated about a fucking video game. Every class is fun. I swear sometimes these threads take on the tone of a Israel vs. Palestine/pro-choice vs. pro-life/Republicans vs. Democrats type political argument. Jeez...

[Evergea]

It's a shame that people would stoop so low as to argue about which Ranger is the best. In the end all it sounds like people are saying is, "My Ranger's gun is bigger than yours!"

Rangers have one exception above all classes in the looks department. They look normal, moreso if you think of them as military people. Ramars aren't musclebound freaks, but they look like legendary heroes. Ramarls look like military chicks. Racasts look like tanks, they also sound like it due to that metal clang as they walk (or so I hear). Racaseals are the only exception, with looking like a maid. But ah, how about a military maid?

Rangers already have high accuracy. If all classes miss at some point, will 10/20 (or whatever) ata make all that much more difference?

Droids get the strength, Humans get the magic. Since droids don't get support techs, they get traps. Magic is very useful, but is a constant drain on TP. It all balances out in the end.

All classes have some degree of balance after they are high enough leveled. No character can be better than the other simply because of the fact they were designed with balance in mind. A certain Version 2 on the Dreamcast on the other hand... that was very unbalanced.

People are flawed in their reasoning with "Make all four, level them and see which one works for you." This takes time, and after a great deal of time, many people still don't know what they want.

Bottom Line: Choose what is most important in the looks, human/droid, gender, power/defence and magic/trap categories and you'll have your class. Good luck as your new Ranger. You'll make your teammates proud.

"FOnewearl: Help me, I don't want to die!
HUcast: *Gives the loud RAcast whistle*
*RAcast stomps mecha sized foot on Boomas*" - Only in a RAcast's wildest dreams

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Evergea on 2004-09-05 19:13 ]</font>

[Zeik123]

Fo r the love of god people give it a rest. Look, it's all in how you play a character that makes him better or worse. So one person has more attack than the other. BIG DEAL! I use my Demo comet over my God hand or Delsaber combo anyday. The point is that it's how you play, not you're power or "skill".

[Evil_Althena8]

ah yes the infamous Ranger dilemma. In all actuality, i've never made a ranger. Based on the facts I know and my friend's experience here is what I'll say.

If I am correct, RAmars have THE worst MST of any class that has MST. So, techs for them suck ass. They have the highest ATA...whoopdeedoo, you can take a hit on that.

RAmarls have more MST, super high EVP and slightly lower ATA. More DFP also. In my opinion, for solo this would be the choice.

RAcaseal...well they're ugly, but they have high DFP and HP...ok ATA. Aesthetically i would never make a RAcaseal if my life depended on it

RAcast the big clunker with high ATP and HP but the "lowest ata". If you can suplicate his weaknesses(as by having a force to support him) this would be a good choice.

But in all my choice is still the RAmarl, she's self-sufficient and can still whoop ass.

That's my 2 cents

[Gjl]

On 2004-09-06 00:04, Evil_Althena8 wrote:
ah yes the infamous Ranger dilemma. In all actuality, i've never made a ranger. Based on the facts I know and my friend's experience here is what I'll say.

If I am correct, RAmars have THE worst MST of any class that has MST. So, techs for them suck ass. They have the highest ATA...whoopdeedoo, you can take a hit on that.

RAmarls have more MST, super high EVP and slightly lower ATA. More DFP also. In my opinion, for solo this would be the choice.

RAcaseal...well they're ugly, but they have high DFP and HP...ok ATA. Aesthetically i would never make a RAcaseal if my life depended on it

RAcast the big clunker with high ATP and HP but the "lowest ata". If you can suplicate his weaknesses(as by having a force to support him) this would be a good choice.

But in all my choice is still the RAmarl, she's self-sufficient and can still whoop ass.

That's my 2 cents



Weakness? O.o RAcasts have the second or third highest DEF (more than the RAmarl actually) in the game and the most HP. Ok they have the worst evasion of the rangers, but evasion is the worst stat in the game. In ultimate you will rarely block attacks unless you have rediculous evasion and even then it's better to just take the damage since the blocking animation is so slow (unless you're gonna get whacked on the floor, but defense and HP stop that happening).

You pretty much summed everything up there though. Offline only, the RAmarl is best (although my RAcast of a similar level can solo much more efficiently. Probably just me being used to trap spamming http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif). If you're online then RAcast is best by far. The 175 ATP is far more useful than a little bit of defense and a tiny 6 ATA.

[Tycho]

Evasion doesn't work in ultimate?

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

I didn't really try raising my EVP much, but Melqueeks rarely manage to land a succesful hit on me. So, quite untrue.

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-06 06:40, Tycho wrote:
Evasion doesn't work in ultimate?

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

I didn't really try raising my EVP much, but Melqueeks rarely manage to land a succesful hit on me. So, quite untrue.


Evade doesn't work in Ult? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

My RAmarl can evade anything in Ultimate Forest, and probably about half of Caves. Give me a few levels, and it will be all of Caves.

If you are talking about your FOnewearl, then of course they will be able to evade many attacks in ultimate at higher levels, since they have the second best EVP in the game.

[kazuma56]

What weapon are you using? It must have some ridicolous percents...


This statement makes me wonder how much I really do know about playing my RAmar.... Take heed that i'm talking offline solo (not multiplayer), but if any of you people out there didn't notice, a Frozen Shooter seems to have excellent accuracy against Bosses that can fly, since i'm doing about 300-400 or more dmg to the dragon, it dies before it even drills.



And RAmarls are just better because they can heal a good portion of their HP with Resta. Ramars heal virtually nothing.


480 HP may seem like nothing, but with a decent lvl of S/D enemies won't be reducing more than 500-600 HP per hit and using a RAmar's heal to cover say 600 HP would mean that he would only lose 120 HP.


BTW, the percents on my FS are (0/0/25/25/15).

Also, Ketchup, are you talking about offline or online? because in offline multiplayer my RAmar could block every enemy but had hard times with Hildelt and Tollaw, solo however, he can block all of forest (last time I checked) and almost all of caves.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kazuma56 on 2004-09-07 17:28 ]</font>

[Xaos127]

Damn cant beleive i missed this topic anyway..
Ketchup stated and i quote
a competent FOrce (probably less than 20% of players use a FOrce often online, and not all are competent at that job)
So doesn't that make RAmar better then RAcast online if there are no support Forces? Interesting.
And to the person who said EVP isnt important SHUT UP! My RAmar blocks all Ult Forest, Caves and nearly all of Mines (darn sinows!!). And to the people that say 500 hp fromresta is nothing remember that RAcast and caseal cant do any but they survive, how you ask? with our little friends mates. Ipersonly only use Resta against bosses cause nothing else hits that hard. And my advice get a RAmar up to past lvl 150 before you start comparing to others, peace.

[Gjl]

Maybe I didn't make this point clear earlier. If you are at the level where you can evade attacks, the attacks will be doing shit damage ANYWAY so really it is quite pointless. Plus the blocking animation is so damn slow; I'd much rather take the *gasp* 50 damage or whatever and then be able to retaliate quickly (only exception is if you get whacked to the floor, in which case defense and HP are needed).

BTW never knew FOne's had the 2nd highest evade http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif.

[Ketchup345]

On 2004-09-08 00:06, Xaos127 wrote:
Damn cant beleive i missed this topic anyway..
Ketchup stated and i quote
a competent FOrce (probably less than 20% of players use a FOrce often online, and not all are competent at that job)
So doesn't that make RAmar better then RAcast online if there are no support Forces? Interesting.
And to the person who said EVP isnt important SHUT UP! My RAmar blocks all Ult Forest, Caves and nearly all of Mines (darn sinows!!). And to the people that say 500 hp fromresta is nothing remember that RAcast and caseal cant do any but they survive, how you ask? with our little friends mates. Ipersonly only use Resta against bosses cause nothing else hits that hard. And my advice get a RAmar up to past lvl 150 before you start comparing to others, peace.


1) Only if there is no competent support FOrce, HUnewearl or RAmarl in the team. If any of these 6 characters are in the team, the RAcast will be better than a RAmar.
2) RAmarl is able to do this much sooner.
3) RAcaseal and RAcast may not have Resta, but they are supposed to rely on *mates anyway. If you have Resta, you are supposed to be able to use it before turning to items; no?



On 2004-09-08 00:17, Gjl wrote:
Maybe I didn't make this point clear earlier. If you are at the level where you can evade attacks, the attacks will be doing shit damage ANYWAY so really it is quite pointless. Plus the blocking animation is so damn slow; I'd much rather take the *gasp* 50 damage or whatever and then be able to retaliate quickly (only exception is if you get whacked to the floor, in which case defense and HP are needed).

BTW never knew FOne's had the 2nd highest evade http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif.

1) Not necessarily. My RAmarl was able to block all of Forest fairly reliably by the mid 90s I believe. I still have low HP, and at that time, if a Hildelt did hit me, it took out nearly 1/2 of my HP.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ketchup345 on 2004-09-08 03:56 ]</font>

[Gjl]

A RAmar will not be stronger than a RAcast even offline due to the existence of mag shifta/deband and even PB/Create. Traps are also great, especially confuse and freeze traps. I can clear rooms much faster since I can just sit back and fire into a pack of confused enemies (which more than makes up for the tiny amount of damage a RAmar MIGHT be doing more than a RAcast). If you can combine confuse traps/freeze traps with mag shifta/deband (and a PB/create if you wish), you can eat up enemies offline.

RAmars get crappy Resta and crappy shifta/deband in lieu of better stats (barring ATA, but RAmar has an excess of that to be honest), traps, hp regrowth and of course several status immunities.

When you're online, as Ketchup pointed out, half the classes in the game are able to do shifta/deband that is far better than the RAmar and also PB combos are amazing on androids and require nobody capable of shifta/deband casting.

BTW about your RAmarl, what materials and equipment did you have on her? My RAmarl never blocked attacks in the temple at lvl 120ish when I was hunting for Yas9ks. (Guard Wave + Delsaber Shield for style http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif - no material usage however).

I'd also like to point out that lvl 150 is around about the point where your characters are virtually invincible and nearly at their max potential http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. Forces might be an exception, haven't had one that high. I do have a lvl 130 RAmar though and my lvl 120 RAcast pwns it totally, even offline soloing.

Sorry but if I have to wait til lvl 150 before a character is comparable to others, what the freak is the point?

[Xaos127]

Okay i have a RAcast lvl 159 and my RAmar pwns the hell out of it offline, and yeah as ketchup said my RAmar could block nearly all forest at around 100 or late 90s and a critical on a hildelt hurt like hell.
And in all honestly RAmar is the text book Ranger, i mean if you want to rely on high mst then make a Force or if you like being a tank become a Hunter. RAmar has the perfect Ranger qualities, it shoots a shot from a frozen shooter from the distance and moves in for the kill. And for all you people who question his melee abilities who cares!! He is a Ranger. And to conclude any fleshie PWNS AN ANDROID OFFLINE PERIOD!!!

[Garm]

RAcast RAcaseal RAmar RAmarl
HP -- -- -- --
TP 0 0 -- --
ATP 1350 1175 1260 1145
MST 0 0 665 1031
DFP 606 688 515 577
ATA 224 231 249 241
EVP 699 787 715 900


look at the stats and choose (ramar and ramarl have resta, anti, shifta and deband ramarl has jellen zalure and cast/caseals have traps) Looks cant be rated since not every one likes the looks o f ramar/ramarl/racast/racaseal. and now lock the damn topic and block any topics coming since everyone will start discussing (so do i >_<)to get to the same conclusion: pick the one you like the most >_<

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garm on 2004-09-09 06:06 ]</font>

[kazuma56]

I just want to say that Zalure is really overrated in this argument, Zalure Needle for RAmar really isn't needed if you happen to find a Demon's arms with high hit, I have found one and can kill enemies in 1-3 combo's max because of it's special, Zalure is helpful, but with the right weapons, it really isn't needed at all.

As for RAmar meleeing, my friend has a lvl 145 RAcast and he often goes off on his own and melee's even though his stats are are not even near close to my RAmars.... at times he even goes without my S/D or PB S/D, and actually does a good job too.
Fact is, you can melee with any class as long as you know how to combo, and know the enemy before you strike the first blow.