GC: Does Ep. 2 seem unbalanced to anyone else?

[VortexNinja]

I am a veteran of PSO (had both PSO ver1 and ver2 for Dreamcast the day they came out). I finally got a Gamecube this year, and I was so stoked to get PSO ep 1&2 plus when it came out. I was especially looking foreward to starting all over again, knowing that there is plenty of new material in this version to keep me interested. So it came as a bit of a surprise to me when I finally got PSO ep 1 and 2 last week that the Episode 2 enemies seemed a little bit too difficult to justify the pathetic amount of exp they give out. It seems to me that the ep 2 enemies should have either half as much hp as they do, or give out at least an additional 50% experience. Granted I've only been playing offline, and with a HUcast. Honestly though, what is the point of playing episode 2 on normal and getting my ass kicked at level 33 when I can play episode 1 on hard mode and level up like 5 times faster? Does it become more balanced at higher difficulties, or perhaps when online? Any advice would be appreciated

[Shadowpawn]

Welcome to PSOW!

I noticed this too, Ep.2 is very hard and gives little experince, you might call it a rush job as Sega didn't really bother to test the areas that much.

You were losing at lv 33 in the seabed on normal, I'm sorry but that's just you. I can go through the seabed at 27 on normal. It gets better when you level up higher.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shadowpawn on 2004-09-23 17:09 ]</font>

[Mystil]

Ep 2 is not unbalanced. ATA is just more of an issue than Ep 1. Ep 1 all you need is high ATP and a ATA of about 200-210(165-180). Ep II on the other hand you'd need 230+(175+) to be able to constantly hit anything.

() = Base ATA. Offline Ep II of course is easier and only require a measly 150 ATA base overall. That's the key "hitting".

If you do Temple to Seabed, you rack up in exp. But it's less stressful to just do Ep I. It's balanced, just insanely hard.

The enemies in Ep II give about the same xp as thier twins in Ep I. Gibbles and Gue Gi(big bug) give about 450 xp. In Seabed, most enemies give 400+. Olga gives more xp than Falz, however Falz is harder than Olga for one reason(Form 2. Need cure/freeze + 2 resist/blizzards(60EIC), or 2 resist/freezes + Freeze Barrier(50 EIC)).

Typical rule of thumb people suggest to all Ep II new players is start out on Ep I first.

Easier EXP: Ep I > Ep II
Change of Pace: Ep II > Ep I

[Shadowpawn]

On 2004-09-23 17:17, Silhouette wrote:
Ep 2 is not unbalanced. ATA is just more of an issue than Ep 1. Ep 1 all you need is high ATP and a ATA of about 200-210(165-180). Ep II on the other hand you'd need 230+(175+) to be able to constantly hit anything.

() = Base ATA. Offline Ep II of course is easier and only require a measly 150 ATA base overall. That's the key "hitting".

If you do Temple to Seabed, you rack up in exp. But it's less stressful to just do Ep I. It's balanced, just insanely hard.

The enemies in Ep II give about the same xp as thier twins in Ep I. Gibbles and Gue Gi(big bug) give about 450 xp. In Seabed, most enemies give 400+. Olga gives more xp than Falz, however Falz is harder than Olga for one reason(Form 2. Need cure/freeze + 2 resist/blizzards(60EIC), or 2 resist/freezes + Freeze Barrier(50 EIC)).

Typical rule of thumb people suggest to all Ep II new players is start out on Ep I first.

Easier EXP: Ep I > Ep II
Change of Pace: Ep II > Ep I


He's talking about normal mode, the ATA, and the exp. you listed is for ult. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shadowpawn on 2004-09-23 17:50 ]</font>

[Para]

thats why in PSO BB they made ep2 monsters dish out alot more exp than in v3

[Skorpius]

Falz is easier than Olga Flow ;l
You dont need a cure/freeze.. you can do just fine with quick hands (shake free and mate yourself), offline, you dont get hit by darvants.. :/

Anyhow, yes, I agree, ep2 on GC is unbalanced. The gain is NOT worth the effort and is really only decent for rares, and change of pace (stated).

[Shadowpawn]

On 2004-09-23 19:13, Skorpius wrote:
Falz is easier than Olga Flow ;l
You dont need a cure/freeze.. you can do just fine with quick hands (shake free and mate yourself), offline, you dont get hit by darvants.. :/

Anyhow, yes, I agree, ep2 on GC is unbalanced. The gain is NOT worth the effort and is really only decent for rares, and change of pace (stated).




Hah...I wish that was true for me when I fought it. I got hit all the time.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shadowpawn on 2004-09-23 19:19 ]</font>

[VortexNinja]

Wow... That really bites. Shame on Sonic team. I hate having to buy multiple incarnations of a console game until the developers finally get it perfect. This sounds like an issue that could have been easily fixed for the release of PSO plus. If they decide to release Blue Burst in the US anytime soon I will be REALLY mad, because I don't want to have to buy it and start all over again for a second time in order to enjoy the game in it's best incarnation. Oh well, I guess I'm off to kill some more boomas.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VortexNinja on 2004-09-23 21:48 ]</font>

[Shigecki]

Experience isn't the goal in ep.II, rare hunting is the goal.

And by the by, Flow is much easier that Falz. Only two forms compared to three and none of those damn darvants. Hate those things, they are four way shifta/deband killers online. I've never beaten Falz final form in only a matter of seconds, but I can say we beat Flow's final form in that amount of time, many times.

[Tycho]

On 2004-09-23 23:39, Shigecki wrote:
Experience isn't the goal in ep.II, rare hunting is the goal.

And by the by, Flow is much easier that Falz. Only two forms compared to three and none of those damn darvants. Hate those things, they are four way shifta/deband killers online. I've never beaten Falz final form in only a matter of seconds, but I can say we beat Flow's final form in that amount of time, many times.



The difference is... DF on ultimate can cut my hp in half at most; he hasn't got a chance of insta-killing, thus beating me. Olga on the other hand can. Even offline in ultimate, God's Punishment is a pain. Yeah, that's for an L162 character. :/ Had no scapedolls left either. It was fucking hard to get to murder him before he launched his everyone-dies-this-very-instant move.

Like Nites said, they fixed it in BB. Damn them, do the same to PSO-GC. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Hrith]

I do not find Ep2 unbalanced at all, like Shigecki said, it's not about experience.

My Lv 200 played 80% in Ep2, so it's still ok http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

I like the new areas (well compared to DC) and the balanced difficulty a lot more.
You're new to Ep2 GC, when you get used to it, it won't seem unbalanced anymore.

[Nai_Calus]

If you find yourself dying against Olga a lot, Tycho, LEARN TO FIGHT HIM. >D You can take in a horribly underlevelled character and live through the entire fight. >_>; ...Especially since you have a FO as your main, right? O_o; Learn what his "Insta-kill" stuff looks like, and when you see him starting to do it, RUN instead of sitting there humping his feet. XP Or hell, just plain stay away from him and long-distance nuke him. FOs have techs, RAs have Rifles, HUs have Handguns and paying freaking attention. XP

I die more on form one of Olga. >P Not that I usually even die unless I'm horribly underlevelled, online, and not paying attention. >_>;

Falz fucking pisses me off, on the other hand. Whoohoo, slap on the EIC, slap on the Cure/Freeze, oh look, I moved the wrong way and the fscking Darvants STILL all whacked me at once and killed me. Oh look, we've got a HUmar and a RAmarl that would have been able to utterly own Olga Flow, and we had to dupe about 40 Scape Dolls to finally beat Falz. (I also cannot wiggle out of freeze with any rapidity, at least not on GC. I don't have the manual dexterity to move the stick that fast. I also for some reason don't want to wreck my controller, even if I could. >_>)

Not to mention that Olga is a hell of a lot more fun, especially on the last form. Falz form 3 is So. Incredibly. Boring. And. Lame. >_>; Whoohoo, the same exact thing over and over. Wake me up when she dies, ok? >_>

And yes, BB Ep2 exp = uber. >_> No reason to do Ep1 except for rare hunting and a change of pace. XP

[Mystil]

On 2004-09-23 17:49, Shadowpawn wrote:


On 2004-09-23 17:17, Silhouette wrote:
Ep 2 is not unbalanced. ATA is just more of an issue than Ep 1. Ep 1 all you need is high ATP and a ATA of about 200-210(165-180). Ep II on the other hand you'd need 230+(175+) to be able to constantly hit anything.

() = Base ATA. Offline Ep II of course is easier and only require a measly 150 ATA base overall. That's the key "hitting".

If you do Temple to Seabed, you rack up in exp. But it's less stressful to just do Ep I. It's balanced, just insanely hard.

The enemies in Ep II give about the same xp as thier twins in Ep I. Gibbles and Gue Gi(big bug) give about 450 xp. In Seabed, most enemies give 400+. Olga gives more xp than Falz, however Falz is harder than Olga for one reason(Form 2. Need cure/freeze + 2 resist/blizzards(60EIC), or 2 resist/freezes + Freeze Barrier(50 EIC)).

Typical rule of thumb people suggest to all Ep II new players is start out on Ep I first.

Easier EXP: Ep I > Ep II
Change of Pace: Ep II > Ep I


He's talking about normal mode, the ATA, and the exp. you listed is for ult. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shadowpawn on 2004-09-23 17:50 ]</font>


That's the thing. Ep II true face of evil shows up in Ult. Norm - VH is nothing. Just providing some early info.

And for the person stating that you don't need cure/freeze, just shake rattle and roll the stick. Uhm you forget one thing, it's NOT the dervants that will kill you. It's the DAMAGE Falz Rabarta will do to you that kills you. This is why I mentioned resist/freeze/blizzard.

Same with Gal Gryphon resist/thunder - storm x2 and cure/shock.

Too bad the most useless units in the whole game is Resist/light series.

About Flow and this is for people who dont know or even figured it out. His Judgement attack is SO easy to avoid without actually having to move FAR(but you still will need to stay from him) away from him. The things the his mags drop around you. Thy serve another purpose other than randomly shocking you. If you kill them......

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2004-09-24 06:19 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2004-09-24 06:53 ]</font>

[Skorpius]

On 2004-09-24 05:26, Ian-KunX wrote:
Falz fucking pisses me off, on the other hand. Whoohoo, slap on the EIC, slap on the Cure/Freeze, oh look, I moved the wrong way and the fscking Darvants STILL all whacked me at once and killed me. Oh look, we've got a HUmar and a RAmarl that would have been able to utterly own Olga Flow, and we had to dupe about 40 Scape Dolls to finally beat Falz. (I also cannot wiggle out of freeze with any rapidity, at least not on GC. I don't have the manual dexterity to move the stick that fast. I also for some reason don't want to wreck my controller, even if I could. >_>)

HUnewearl level 170, RAmarl level 150, online, my friend and I without any more than 20 EIC and no scapes, no cure/freeze, we constantly beat dark falz on ult together :|
No problem.

Just like you told Tycho, pay attention, you can aviod the freeze >.>

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Mystil]

In that case it's just a matter of moving in the right direction flawlessly. For me personally it's always been the damage, and not the dervants or getting frozen.

[Joltox]

Sorry, to ask this, but what is the arguement about? I got lost while reading these posts. Can someone clue me in please?

[Skorpius]

It morphed from Ep2 being unbalanced, to boss stratagy X

[Shadowpawn]

On 2004-09-24 06:15, Silhouette wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-09-23 17:49, Shadowpawn wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-09-23 17:17, Silhouette wrote:
Thy serve another purpose other than randomly shocking you. If you kill them......

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2004-09-24 06:19 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2004-09-24 06:53 ]</font>


Don't leave them on a cliffhanger...:/. The mags are homing beacons to Olga. If they are near you when he does the attack, you will get hit. Also, I don't seem to have problems with the ult. Seabed. The ultimate Ruins...THAT is a problem area!

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-09-24 06:51, Skorpius wrote:

HUnewearl level 170, RAmarl level 150, online, my friend and I without any more than 20 EIC and no scapes, no cure/freeze, we constantly beat dark falz on ult together :|
No problem.

Just like you told Tycho, pay attention, you can aviod the freeze >.>

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



HUmar L~125, RAmarl L108. XP

And how the fuck is paying attention going to help when it's either A: Rabarta multihits, and regardless of your EIC does enough damage to kill you, or B: You don't move precisely the right direction, and you get bitchslapped by several Darvants, which together do enough damage to kill you?

Even without being frozen, you can still die. I'm not surprised that at your levels, you've got the HP to survive that(Though I've seen L190s killed by it. XP), but the fact remains that against Falz, all you can hope for is luck with her not doing her cheap-ass bullshit and spamming Heaven's Punishment or Rafoie on you instead of Rabarta. XP 'Paying attention' has nothing to do with Falz. Luck and being retardedly high levels does. Olga? Pfft. The two of us would have taken him down without even having to scratch our asses twice.

If it makes you feel better, we both agreed that it was a good time afterwards. XP

Again, Ep2 > Ep1. I see no reason at all to do Ult Ep1 on BB, especially since you lose exp when you die. Ult Seabed will be superior experience, without as much risk of death at boss. XP Olga is far more fun, and far less deadly, and also better exp. So... Why would anyone in their right mind do Ep1? >_>; Laziness, I guess. "Oh noes, I don't know how these monsters act or how to deal with them, I'd better go hide with what I'm used to like some little scardey girl". http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif Ep1 is boring. Seriously. Been there, done that, sick of it. Even Falz in her annoying cheapness is boring in the average TTF, where you've got 4 people, a FO, and stuff just kind of falls over dead. XP Ep2 is at least exciting. I don't care WHAT you are, Mr. Delbiter is still gonna flatten you and wake you up. >D

Ep2 is balanced, IMO. ...I just wish that FOmar had better ATA so he could melee in Seabed. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Hrith]

Well said Ianz, me agrees on what you say on Ep2 =D

[Skorpius]

Well, sure, Ep2 is different, of course, but there are so many flaws:
You NEED cure shock to solo CCA offline :| And dont give me no resist bullcrap, if you're an offliner, you wont be able to do anything with just 10 sols.
"lets make this short area longer by giving 10 spawns of 3 creatures that have a pause of 3 minutes in between", yay!
Oh yeah the RUN AWAY AND HIDE, just like Ep1 players Ian assumed of. Run around for 15 minutes looking for that merillia or whatever ;l annoying.
Sinows, spend 10 minutes trying to kill it as it warps after ONE hit. Fun, yes!
Swords/Partisans in CCA are near useless, too many stats ailments, every ep2 enemy does something :|
Drop rates are crap.
EXP was crap until BB, but we arent even supposed to play it, it's eastern market only.
First half is recycled Ep1, SOOOO different!
Besically, you have to be stronger than the difficulty to play it comfortably, offline..
There arent even that many quests in Ep2 lol

Designed quickly, without effort or thought.

[Hrith]

I say you're not good enough, period.

[Skorpius]

Explain.
How does not wanting to spend 30 minutes in one room to gain 2k exp, or not having every Cure unit, wanting more Ep2 quests, and having my play style restricted due to enemy spawn design translate to lack of fighting skills and stratagy?

I was pointing out all the design flaws in Episode 2, my points are vaild, yours was not.

[Midnight]

On 2004-09-24 08:36, Ian-KunX wrote:
Again, Ep2 > Ep1. I see no reason at all to do Ult Ep1 on BB, especially since you lose exp when you die. Ult Seabed will be superior experience, without as much risk of death at boss. XP Olga is far more fun, and far less deadly, and also better exp. So... Why would anyone in their right mind do Ep1? >_>; Laziness, I guess. "Oh noes, I don't know how these monsters act or how to deal with them, I'd better go hide with what I'm used to like some little scardey girl". http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif Ep1 is boring. Seriously. Been there, done that, sick of it. Even Falz in her annoying cheapness is boring in the average TTF, where you've got 4 people, a FO, and stuff just kind of falls over dead. XP Ep2 is at least exciting. I don't care WHAT you are, Mr. Delbiter is still gonna flatten you and wake you up. >D


couldnt disagree more...i find ep2 extremely boring, confusing and olga is pretty much how you describe falz...you could call me a scsrdey girl, but i like doing what im used to, and i have no patience or will to get used to ep2

[Tycho]

Kef, not being good enough has nothing to do with it. It's more about not taking units with you. And whenever they sell sols, why not buy like 50? Just drop 40 on the floor.

About Episode 2 being hard: Don't be lazy, you could even take resist Storms. Shock is the only thing you have to worry about in CCA.

Dark Falz is easy... I never get killed by the Rabarta damage.
Did I mention I always have 4 perfect resists equipped, and DF almost only uses techs, whereas Olga does not? ;o http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

And um. It's really nice and everything how Olga is easy to you Hu's and Ra's. But you know, he has this phase he goes orange and transparent like a Dark Bridge.
Yeah. You can't hit his mags in that phase, and he can still instantly kill me. It doesn't really matter if you have an uber-weapon, but my most useful weapon for OF is Summit Moon.
So whenever I'm lucky and he wants me to; I die. Tell me how to avoid that. I tried running. I tried walking into his foot in the last second. It sucks. :/

For DF; just take Resist Blizzards on you. If you're doing speed runs: who cares if you keep them on you and they FSOD. ;o

At least during DF you can avoid being killed. :/

[Jason]

You know, if you paid attention to the Episode Select screen, you would understand. Have Episode 1 selected there, and the text says, "This way for the first time PSO player." Yes, you have experienced the DC versions I know that, but what that text says may not be what you think it really means. Not only it really means that Episode 1 are for first time PSO players that have never experienced the DC versions, it really means that it is best to start there in Episode 1 for the first time before Episode 2. Finish normal mode on Episode 1 before trying out normal mode of Episode 2, you'll then have plenty of experience points for a fresh start of that Episode.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-09-24 12:04, Midnight wrote:

couldnt disagree more...i find ep2 extremely boring, confusing and olga is pretty much how you describe falz...you could call me a scsrdey girl, but i like doing what im used to, and i have no patience or will to get used to ep2



Boring? Maybe Temple and Spaceship once you tire of the scenery/music, since it's the same exact crap from Ep1... CCA? No. Seabed? No. Tower? HELL no. You just don't know how to fight Olga, if you think he's like how I think Falz is. >_>;

And if you're so hard-up for what you're used to, I don't want to see you doing Ep4, either. XP It's new, so it'll be confusing and boring! It's not what you're used to, so you don't have the patience or willpower to get used to it!

Really, people need to get over that kind of foolishness. >_>

And again, Resist/Blizzards never did shit for me. XP I just carry scapes if I have any left from the last time I fought Falz, and pray. XP Olga is fscking easy for FOs, just stand away from him and nuke him, what are you on about, Tycho? O_o; My FOmar nuked him before my HUmar nuked him. O_o; ...Hell, my HUmar never HAS nuked him. >_>;

If you're not skilled enough to adapt to Ep2, then yeah, maybe you should stay away. It's not that there's no strategy to fighting in Ep2, it's that you're so into Ep1's mindset that you won't even bother to think of how to deal with stuff in Ep2. No, you can't properly use a Partisan half the time. Hmm, gee, I wonder what this Slicer is for...? And what the hell is a Double Saber for? Wow, what's a Handgun? Sheesh, people. -_-

[PJ]

I find Flow easier than Falz. I guess for Flow it's just knowing when to run away (Which I do know).

Personally, I think GDV (That includes Tower) and Seabed are way better than any Episode 1 stage, and Spaceship being the best Episode 1-style stage.

And no, you don't need every cure unit to go through CCA (I have none). No, it shouldn't take you so long to clear a Mountain room without even a single Sol (I prefer to save my Sols for when I need them).

[Serapies]

[quote]Olga on the other hand can. Even offline in ultimate, God's Punishment is a pain.



Tycho god's punishment is easy to avoid. All ya gotta do is k/o his little gales. Everytime they wake up just k/o em again. while they are k/o'd attack Flow. See, his gales send him energy to use for god's punishment.

[Hrith]

On 2004-09-24 11:57, Skorpius wrote:
Explain.
How does not wanting to spend 30 minutes in one room to gain 2k exp, or not having every Cure unit, wanting more Ep2 quests, and having my play style restricted due to enemy spawn design translate to lack of fighting skills and stratagy?

I was pointing out all the design flaws in Episode 2, my points are vaild, yours was not.
I have nothing to reproach Ep2 with, you're supposed to adapt to the game, not the other way around, my point is valid, yours is not, now quit whining.

All cure units are very easy to get and Ep2 is more for hunting rares than experience.

I agree that Ep2 offline feels empty and that there are no Ep2 offline quests, but I hardly play offline.

I find Ep2 a lot more fun because of the actual challenge provided (Ep1 is quickly boring), and because of the actual battle tactics required to play it.
Ep2 is also a lot more varied. In Ep1, only Mine gives a little variety, in Ep2 all 5 stages are clearly different.

If you do not have fun in Ep2, that's because you can't play it, end of story.

[Midnight]

On 2004-09-24 13:36, Ian-KunX wrote:
And if you're so hard-up for what you're used to, I don't want to see you doing Ep4, either.


no worries, i wont. i might try it once or twice, but otherwise, eh.

[Skorpius]

On 2004-09-24 13:36, Ian-KunX wrote:
I wonder what this Slicer is for...? And what the hell is a Double Saber for? Wow, what's a Handgun? Sheesh, people. -_-


Too bad thats all you'll be using. 80% of the games weapons become useless or ineffecient in Ep2, especially CCA and beyond. The stalling of Ep2 enemies and spawns is rediculous, and has nothing to do with play style or adaptation, its dumb. I dont want to spend 2 hours in seabed, i could easily do 2 ruins runs and have more fun trying to dodge belras and bringers, instead of being trapped and killed by one fucking recon >.>
I also like how you're (mainly Ian and Kef) insulting people, by saying they suck at PSO because they dislike Ep2, no one insulted people liking ep2.. so what the fuck is this about. Stop being elitest asshats and realise that people can like whatever the hell they want. Ep1 can be just as difficult, the pure number of enemies online and in quests can over take a person lacking in the knowledge and memorization of the particular area/quest.

Ep1 = Mad spawn rates, you get over run with enemies.
Ep2 = a few enemies, mainly getting killed by a crit by one, or some stupid status ailment/power hit or instant kill thing.

Adaptation? I play ep2, and sometimes I like it, I dont run away from ep2 at all, I did seabed as my FOmarl earlier today. I still think its poorly designed.
So, instead of bashing players, you should probably try to discuss how Ep2 is unbalanced, how it has flaws, and THEN bring up good points, instead of pbeing elitest jackasses who get ego boosts from thinking Ep2 is hardcore and that you're uber for playing it. Seriously.. :l


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2004-09-25 10:17 ]</font>

[kazuma56]

Kef, there is PSO+ which has 3 ep.2 quests.

As for ep.2 being hard, not really, i do hate the fact that the enemy patterns makes it hard for you to melee using certain weps, but it's overall pretty decent.

[Hrith]

Is that all you have to say ?
geez, kids, so easy to prove wrong...


80% of the games weapons become useless or ineffecient in Ep2, especially CCA and beyond.
I have no difficulty using 80% of the rares in GDV, Tower or Seabed, I can bring Yamigarasu, Red Saber, Twin Chakram and many other weapons like that in those areas.


I dont want to spend 2 hours in seabed
So you do lack skill http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif I can beat Seabed in 50 minutes online, and that's with TWO people; with four we can do it in about 40 minutes. Offline I do it in 30 minutes.


Ep2 = a few enemies
As I thought all along, you speak with little knowledge of the matter. You try to compare quests like Ice Spinner or Endless Nightmare #4 to regular Ep2 gameplay -_- Why not compare it to Phantasmal World or Famitsu Maximum Attack 2 ? there are more monsters in those quests that in most Ep1 quests >_>

Don't try to turn this into a personal argument for this is not the case, if you cannot face it, it's your problem.

[Nai_Calus]

Skorp, ignoring the rest of your whining, 80% of weapon types are worthless in Ep1 as well. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif Unless you're going to sit here and tell me how garbage like Sabers and Handguns and Claws and Katanas and the like are actually good...?

And discussing Ep2's flaws and unbalancing first is pointless, because it's not unbalanced. -_-

And by the way, how does me being in a random Ruins run with friends make me a hypocrite? I don't recall ever saying that I loathe and despise Ep1 so much that I'll never play it. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif Does it make you feel better to know that I was in a PW before that? XP

...Mobbed with enemies, heh. Sure, in an EN if you're not careful. >_>; C-mode maybe, if the maps are bad. Really, there isn't a whole heck of a lot of challenge in Ep1. Even c-mode is easy. >_>;

[Tycho]

On 2004-09-25 10:16, Skorpius wrote:


On 2004-09-24 13:36, Ian-KunX wrote:
I wonder what this Slicer is for...? And what the hell is a Double Saber for? Wow, what's a Handgun? Sheesh, people. -_-


Too bad thats all you'll be using. 80% of the games weapons become useless or ineffecient in Ep2, especially CCA and beyond. The stalling of Ep2 enemies and spawns is rediculous, and has nothing to do with play style or adaptation, its dumb. I dont want to spend 2 hours in seabed, i could easily do 2 ruins runs and have more fun trying to dodge belras and bringers, instead of being trapped and killed by one fucking recon >.>
I also like how you're (mainly Ian and Kef) insulting people, by saying they suck at PSO because they dislike Ep2, no one insulted people liking ep2.. so what the fuck is this about. Stop being elitest asshats and realise that people can like whatever the hell they want. Ep1 can be just as difficult, the pure number of enemies online and in quests can over take a person lacking in the knowledge and memorization of the particular area/quest.

Ep1 = Mad spawn rates, you get over run with enemies.
Ep2 = a few enemies, mainly getting killed by a crit by one, or some stupid status ailment/power hit or instant kill thing.

Adaptation? I play ep2, and sometimes I like it, I dont run away from ep2 at all, I did seabed as my FOmarl earlier today. I still think its poorly designed.
So, instead of bashing players, you should probably try to discuss how Ep2 is unbalanced, how it has flaws, and THEN bring up good points, instead of pbeing elitest jackasses who get ego boosts from thinking Ep2 is hardcore and that you're uber for playing it. Seriously.. :l


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2004-09-25 10:17 ]</font>


The thing about getting killed by Recons, Skorp. I really hope that was a joke. > <;;
It's not worth it except for hunting, but Seabed isn't too hard.
But, for the levels, it has to do with level too. So no saying people suck for that. :/

[kazuma56]

both ep.1&2 are easy offline, Seabed would probably only take me 30 mins max if I didn't take the most direct route.

BTW it also depends on player skill, using a God/battle greatly increases the "easiness" of ep.2, most enemies in ep.2 do alot more dmg than ep.1 but it makes sense, seeing as the game should at least have some challenge because if it didn't, I wouldn't get past lvl 120.

The only problem with ep.2 is that enemies are always scattered, ep.1 they come at your in groups which makes it much easier, if ep.2 enemies acted like that, I don't think an argument would have started in the first place.

[VortexNinja]

Well, it seems that some people have missed the point of why I originally posted this thread. I was simply asking people if they also noticed how inneficient ep2 is to play. It's not a question of whether it's easy or hard. The fact of the matter is that ep2 enemies in the CCA and beyond simply require too much effort to kill for the pathetic amount of exp that they give out. That is, in relation to enemies of similar strength in ep1. This point cannot be argued, it is a straight fact http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif.

Now before I get burned by anyone, I will also say this: ep2 looks like it will be the most worthwhile in ULTIMATE difficulty because the enemies, although they should be very difficult, will give out more exp than the majority of the ep1 ult monsters. So if a player gets to a point which they are so uber that ep1 ult monsters give too little exp for the trouble, then ep 2 is the way to go. Can I get a booyah?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VortexNinja on 2004-09-25 20:46 ]</font>

[Tycho]

On 2004-09-25 20:44, VortexNinja wrote:
Well, it seems that some people have missed the point of why I originally posted this thread. I was simply asking people if they also noticed how inneficient ep2 is to play. It's not a question of whether it's easy or hard. The fact of the matter is that ep2 enemies in the CCA and beyond simply require too much effort to kill for the pathetic amount of exp that they give out. That is, in relation to enemies of similar strength in ep1. This point cannot be argued, it is a straight fact http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif.

Now before I get burned by anyone, I will also say this: ep2 looks like it will be the most worthwhile in ULTIMATE difficulty because the enemies, although they should be very difficult, will give out more exp than the majority of the ep1 ult monsters. So if a player gets to a point which they are so uber that ep1 ult monsters give too little exp for the trouble, then ep 2 is the way to go. Can I get a booyah?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VortexNinja on 2004-09-25 20:46 ]</font>


Ep 2 is not about the exp actually. Do you know there are a lot of good items you can only get in Episode two? That's what makes it worth it.
And by the way, isn't it like, the rates for a weapon to have hit are 1/20 in EP1 Ult, and 1/10 in EP2 Ult?
Isn't that a reason?

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-09-26 04:07, Tycho wrote:

And by the way, isn't it like, the rates for a weapon to have hit are 1/20 in EP1 Ult, and 1/10 in EP2 Ult?
Isn't that a reason?



Where the heck did you get that from? O_o; Never heard of it before. Only thing I've heard about Hit% chance is that apparently YELLOWBOZE and... I forget what the other ID was... have a better chance of getting Hit%. o.O

[Gjl]

I love how some of you people pretend this game is even remotely challenging http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif. The only thing that comes close to a challenge is EP2 Cmode (which I completed using a RANGER with an S-Rank as a total Cmode n00b, without having to redo stages (except when my connection screwed up due to my shit ISP/Sonic Team's sucky servers - and VERY annoying that is). The only challenge was actually finding a game, even on Alcyone-6.

My first PSO character (HUmar obviously http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) used a crappy Dragon Slayer all the time because that was all I could get his damn Skyly ID to find outside of Caves. He wasn't online at the time, but I did play multimode with a RAmar and RAmarl most of the time until I retired him at lvl 125ish. It did the trick in Ruins/Seabeds so I don't know what the hell you're on about, saying that only 20% of the items in the game are useful http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif. I even regularly used an Akiko's Frying Pan for the novelty value http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif.

The only area where specific equipment is required is probably the control tower due to all the 1 hit-KO crap flying around.

And now let me quote a typical hacked TJ-Sword wielding kid:


On 2004-09-15 13:24, Serapies wrote:
I have pretty much the same thoughts as Kveer Raven. Seriously, its kinda stupid how noobs think that lvl 200 chars can handle anything. Even with a lvl 200 char you still get kicked around this way and that in ult ruins and in ult seabed. Unless yer char just happens to have a tsumikiri j-sword(which I have)with 100% in a-beast,machine, and dark, as well as an Aura field with 4 slots(which I also have), and the best shield or barrier in the game, and of course maxed stats(meaning a mag would be useless) your pretty much gonna get anhilliated in both areas.

[Skorpius]

On 2004-09-25 15:18, Kef wrote:
Is that all you have to say ?
geez, kids, so easy to prove wrong...


80% of the games weapons become useless or ineffecient in Ep2, especially CCA and beyond.
I have no difficulty using 80% of the rares in GDV, Tower or Seabed, I can bring Yamigarasu, Red Saber, Twin Chakram and many other weapons like that in those areas.
Because you're level 160-170+? Most people are usually using something around 140, at most, where ATA growth isnt near max :l



I dont want to spend 2 hours in seabed
So you do lack skill http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif I can beat Seabed in 50 minutes online, and that's with TWO people; with four we can do it in about 40 minutes. Offline I do it in 30 minutes.
How do stalling Deldepths and Sinows calculate into lack of skill? -_- They waste time.. same with recons.



Ep2 = a few enemies
As I thought all along, you speak with little knowledge of the matter. You try to compare quests like Ice Spinner or Endless Nightmare #4 to regular Ep2 gameplay -_- Why not compare it to Phantasmal World or Famitsu Maximum Attack 2 ? there are more monsters in those quests that in most Ep1 quests >_>
I never said anything about Ep1 quests compared to regular ep2 gameplay :| Ep1 has about 7-12 enemies, in 3-4 spawns per room, while ep2 has 3-4 enemies in 8-12 spawns per room. -____-


Don't try to turn this into a personal argument for this is not the case, if you cannot face it, it's your problem.
I never said I cant handle it, I said its designed with flaws. Reading helps. Stop trying to act like you're good at PSO because you can play Ep2 :/

Ian:

Skorp, ignoring the rest of your whining, 80% of weapon types are worthless in Ep1 as well. Unless you're going to sit here and tell me how garbage like Sabers and Handguns and Claws and Katanas and the like are actually good...?
Handguns are good, but when are Claws and Sabers good? Katanas are decent :/ I guess you lack the knowledge in useing them? I dont know



And discussing Ep2's flaws and unbalancing first is pointless, because it's not unbalanced. -_-
It IS flawed, though.

Tycho:

The thing about getting killed by Recons, Skorp. I really hope that was a joke. > <;;
Recons have the ability, online, to kill you instantly with their saw attack. If they pin you to the wall, the saw will hit you mulitple times, enough to drain 2000 HP. Ive had a level 190 HUcast die from this, before :|

VortesNinja:
I apologize for myself, Ian, and Kef for ruining your topic, and will leave now and never post in this again. Ian and Kef, Please, stop acting like elitests.. You are no better at this game than the average player that played as long as you, so stop thinking/talking like it. It's annoying.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2004-09-26 08:19, Skorpius wrote:

Because you're level 160-170+? Most people are usually using something around 140, at most, where ATA growth isnt near max :l


...Quit using HUnewearls. Any class with even decent ATA growth can be maxed before L130 easily. >_>;



I never said anything about Ep1 quests compared to regular ep2 gameplay :| Ep1 has about 7-12 enemies, in 3-4 spawns per room, while ep2 has 3-4 enemies in 8-12 spawns per room. -____-


That's a ridiculous exaggeration. -_-; Average ep2 room: About 7-12 enemies, in 3-5 spawns per room. 9_9
And if you want to talk about believable gameplay, the large rooms and relatively wide, open spaces of CCA make far more sense than the ridiculous uniformity of, say, Ruins. Who the HELL designs a spaceship like that? >_>;


Stop trying to act like you're good at PSO because you can play Ep2 :/


Considering the number of people who can't play Ep2 worth shit... Y'know, n00bs who bring a freaking HUcast to Tower and the rush everything and complain it's too hard... >_>; Yeah, I'd think being able to play Ep2, in addition to being able to play ep1, makes you good at PSO. If you have Ep1 to a fine art, and can't play Ep2 for shit, you're not good at PSO. >_>;




Handguns are good, but when are Claws and Sabers good? Katanas are decent :/ I guess you lack the knowledge in useing them? I dont know


Handguns are only good for shooting things down, and shooting traps... Which half the time can be accomplished better by a good Rafoie, or a slicer for multiple flying enemies. I carry a Handgun in case I need one, but I virtually never use it outside of Falz, Olga and GDV/Seabed Sinows(Psst. Hey. Gameplay tip time. If you shoot them from a distance? Usually they stay in place and keep trying to walk towards you. Yeah, none of that time-wasting your complain about so much). I never said Claws and Sabers are good, where the hell are you getting that?

Katanas are not decent, and 'lack of knowledge in using them' has nothing to do with it. >_>; Fact: A freaking Demolition Comet is more efficient than a crappy Orotiagito. I've found both. Guess which one I still use? Again, most weapons are worthless anyway. >_>;



It IS flawed, though.


And? So is your precious Ep1. So is Super Mario Bros. So is Doom, Halo, Final Fantasy, and every single other game in existance. So you hate it because it's not perfect? What games do you actually like, then, if that's grounds for dislike? -_-;

And Kef IS a lot better than the average player. >_>; It's not elitism to point out things that are true. >_> Me, I just pay attention, play the fucking game instead of bitching about how much it sucks, and have a tendancy to be annoyed by stuff that is flat-out wrong and endless whining about how much things that are perfectly good 'suck'. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[yellow5]

On 2004-09-25 20:44, VortexNinja wrote:
Well, it seems that some people have missed the point of why I originally posted this thread. I was simply asking people if they also noticed how inneficient ep2 is to play. It's not a question of whether it's easy or hard. The fact of the matter is that ep2 enemies in the CCA and beyond simply require too much effort to kill for the pathetic amount of exp that they give out. That is, in relation to enemies of similar strength in ep1. This point cannot be argued, it is a straight fact http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif.

Now before I get burned by anyone, I will also say this: ep2 looks like it will be the most worthwhile in ULTIMATE difficulty because the enemies, although they should be very difficult, will give out more exp than the majority of the ep1 ult monsters. So if a player gets to a point which they are so uber that ep1 ult monsters give too little exp for the trouble, then ep 2 is the way to go. Can I get a booyah?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VortexNinja on 2004-09-25 20:46 ]</font>


Episode 2 was designed to be more of a challenge in this iteration of the game because so many damned cheaters in the Dreamcast version raped the game. You only died in EPI because you sucked ass.

Notice, in Ultimate EPII, how many one-hit, instant-kill, attacks there are. Sonic Team did this in an attempt to keep the game challenging, even for players with hacked mags and weapons. It's funny when someone dies in EPII. It's embarassing when someone dies in EPI.

[Para]

Look lets put it this way, Episode II isnt great on v3 in terms of experience and items.

If you want to see more episode II games, go play Blue Burst with its boosted Episode II experience.

[Mystil]

On 2004-09-25 20:44, VortexNinja wrote:
I will also say this: ep2 looks like it will be the most worthwhile in ULTIMATE difficulty because the enemies, although they should be very difficult, will give out more exp than the majority of the ep1 ult monsters.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VortexNinja on 2004-09-25 20:46 ]</font>


Oh believe me it is. ^_^ Truthfully it's a bit a pain in the ass without a competant FO. Atleast from my experience as a hune.


Well, sure, Ep2 is different, of course, but there are so many flaws:
You NEED cure shock to solo CCA offline :| And dont give me no resist bullcrap, if you're an offliner, you wont be able to do anything with just 10 sols.
"lets make this short area longer by giving 10 spawns of 3 creatures that have a pause of 3 minutes in between", yay!
Oh yeah the RUN AWAY AND HIDE, just like Ep1 players Ian assumed of. Run around for 15 minutes looking for that merillia or whatever ;l annoying.
Sinows, spend 10 minutes trying to kill it as it warps after ONE hit. Fun, yes!
Swords/Partisans in CCA are near useless, too many stats ailments, every ep2 enemy does something :|
Drop rates are crap.
EXP was crap until BB, but we arent even supposed to play it, it's eastern market only.
First half is recycled Ep1, SOOOO different!
Besically, you have to be stronger than the difficulty to play it comfortably, offline..
There arent even that many quests in Ep2 lol

Designed quickly, without effort or thought.

Some of this I'm not quit sure of.. All I needed for CCA ult offline to be easy was ATA over 150. Seaside is probably what takes me the longest to beat. Cure/shock too. And well that's it. Power isn't really that much of an issue. Seabed also takes me 30min.

As for resists, well that's on you people who don't listen and why everyone below 50 dies to Falz's grants, unless they hack up thier HP or use a crapload of God/hps. Though two resist/storms wouldn't be enough anyway in CCA, cause you need four to be immune to the actual shocking. And with players being so power hungry, I know no one will do that. Well, then begin hunting for Cure/shock or just don't do EpII.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2004-09-27 04:59 ]</font>

[Tycho]

On 2004-09-27 04:47, Silhouette wrote:

As for resists, well that's on you people who don't listen and why everyone below 50 dies to Falz's grants, unless they hack up thier HP or use a crapload of God/hps. Though two resist/storms wouldn't be enough anyway in CCA, cause you need four to be immune to the actual shocking. And with players being so power hungry, I know no one will do that. Well, then begin hunting for Cure/shock or just don't do EpII.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2004-09-27 04:59 ]</font>


That's why I'm happy I don't feel like using God/Minds for the few percent extra MST, I don't have to be scared of status changes, megid, or tech damage at all. ^-^;;

[SquashDemon]

no, you're absoulutely right about Ep. 2 it is very unbalanced, especially those friggen' Delbiters! they are very strong and fast, have lots of hp and aren't even worth it (I'm talking in terms of exp. here) i'm a level 75 HUmar, and I can still be knocked to half health by those things!!!

[Tycho]

What the heck are you people implying by unbalanced anyway? That the effort versus exp and finds isn't the same as in episode 1?

Look, a lot of rares are episode 2 only. Is episode 2 harder? That would make these finds more rare, wouldn't it?
So this will automatically make these 2-exclusive rares more valuable.
Tadaa, now you're getting more for your effort again, and it's not unbalanced anymore.

By the way, episode 2 isn't hard at all if you have a good team. You use it as a tool of comparison and a standard, but why not say episode 1 is unbalanced? Come on, it's far too easy. All you have to do in all of episode one is whack down crappy-AI booma like enemies.

Now that's what I call weird and unbalanced.