Metallurgy Question

[Eihwaz]

I'm curious, would it be possible to alloy silver (which is a rather soft metal, from what I've heard), into something approximately as hard as steel? This information would be useful for a story idea I'm toying with.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eihwaz on 2004-10-01 16:43 ]</font>

[darthsaber9x9]

who cares, it's a story http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

but seriously, I'm not sure if you can get it as hard as steel. But, assuming you want it for a weapon, it would do. Not in real life, but who's goin to check? I mean, no-one looked into pokeball technology did they http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

[Eihwaz]

Well, I'd like it to be fairly realistic, the weapons, I mean. Perhaps I could just make the weapon be steel, but with a coating of silver?

Meh, I still wanny know how hard you can alloy silver. >_>

[Scrub]

It must be. I've played a lot of games where you can get "Silver Shortsword +6" and stuff like that.o_o

[darthsaber9x9]

On 2004-10-01 17:12, GreyPhantasm wrote:
It must be. I've played a lot of games where you can get "Silver Shortsword +6" and stuff like that.o_o



yeh cos if it's in a game it must be true http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

whats to say it isn't a silver handle?

note: im well aware at the possible use of sarcasm by you. if that was the case, disregard what I said.

to wazzy: yeh a silver coating or some kind of cool silver thread would do

[Scrub]

No sarcasm.

Just saying if it can happen in one of those Medieval games, then I'm sure nobody would bat an eyelash if you put it in a story.

[Eihwaz]

Yeah, I suppose a silver thread could work too...you mean like having silver embedded in the blade, right?

The reason I'm asking this is that the main character of this story weilds a sword to fight werewolves, vampires, demons, etc, and silver is highly detrimental to them. So his guns have silver bullets, and his blade would have to have some way to expose silver to the enemy for it to work. :3

The problem with a silver coating is that it would wear off...maybe electroplating? I dunno. >_>

[Squal]

Mix maybe... I dunno I'm no mettal expert.(off tpoc: Why is it in video games that silver is always stronger?) But, If there are werewolves and vampires than it shouldn't have to be too realistic

[Dangerous55]

He has guns, he doesnt need a sword.

[Eihwaz]

On 2004-10-01 20:31, Dangerous55 wrote:
He has guns, he doesnt need a sword.


You know, that's true...but my character likes to...be prepared for anything? >_>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eihwaz on 2004-10-01 21:03 ]</font>

[ShadowNINJA007]

Just get an iron sword, get it blessed by a preist/pope dude and dip it inn holy water.
Problem solved.

[opaopajr]

so what if silver plating wears off, make it an interesting part of the story! i'd see that as an interesting opportunity to shape your story into hair-raising situations. have yuor hero running through the mansion trying to find the 'family silver' and try to get time to smelt it and recoat the sword.

a hero prepared for all contingencies becomes rapidly dull. and boring the reader is cardinal sin #1.

[Bradicus]

a hero prepared for all contingencies becomes rapidly dull. and boring the reader is cardinal sin #1.


This is the problem with a lot of fan fictions out there. No one wants to hear about how your "SSJ Assassin Angel of Haxor Death pwned 231314214 monsters in one strike".

[digigram]

eihwaz..

yes you can.. in many different methods.. you can even take stainless steal, have a silver core and stainless steel body.. OR

You can actually have steel mixed with assorted types of metals, including silver.

I would go with the Threading Idea or the Silver core, problem being, they would need to be exposed to it right?


anyhow.. hope this helps.

[Eihwaz]

On 2004-10-01 23:03, opaopajr wrote:
so what if silver plating wears off, make it an interesting part of the story! i'd see that as an interesting opportunity to shape your story into hair-raising situations. have yuor hero running through the mansion trying to find the 'family silver' and try to get time to smelt it and recoat the sword.

a hero prepared for all contingencies becomes rapidly dull. and boring the reader is cardinal sin #1.


Hm, that sounds pretty interesting...http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

I'm guessing I'll just say he uses alchemy to make a perfect silver-steel alloy, but then maybe I'll throw in a scene sometime where an enemy somehow manages to fuck up his blade or something...anyway, thanks guys, maybe keep some ideas flowing.

[Scrub]

Well, in Fable, you need Silver Weapons to easily kill Balverine(well, easily in the beginning of the game.).

To make a Silver Weapon, you Augment it with a Silver Augmentation, which then imbues it with essence of Silver, allowing increased damage to Balverines(Werewolves) and Undead. It also makes your sword glow all cool and SilveryBluey.=D

I guess it could be like that?o_o

[Musashiden]

I have no idea if this would work, but maybe if you say the sword has a steel core (so it doesnt break easily) and has the outside compsed of silver folded over itself many many times and then sharpened, like the ancient japanese swords. This way you can have the sword still be fairly strong becuase of the steel and folded silver, and you can still kill the undead. Then again its just an idea to play with. Hope i could help some.

[digigram]

due to how less dense silver is than steel, one would require a whole shit load of silver to be able to fold it in the same sense you wish to use as a katana. I believe silver, coated on the outside of a more condensed metal, would cause the silver to act as a sheath anyway, after a few uses. (would come loose, and slide off or break off).

[Scrub]

Why not melt both, mix them, have it harden and crap and make a sword out of THAT?>_>

[Musashiden]

Oh well, least i tried, but good point, didnt think of that. It would truelly suck to go to attack someone and have most of your sword get luanched at them instead. GreyPhantasm, i think that idea would work, you would just have to experiment with it alot before you could perfect the smithing technique, and that might cost quite a bit of money. Maybe, if he wanted it this way, he could make the sword have a serrated edge, and have the serration be made of silver, and have where the silver meets the steel the alloy. Just an idea that popped into my head.

[darthsaber9x9]

im guessing that digigram has completed soem kind of physics course

[IceBurner]

A sword made of pure silver would be a terrible cutting tool, though I'm sure most people are perfectly aware. In its natural state, silver is too soft to make even practical jewelry. It's often alloyed with copper for strength (and we all know how soft copper is).

"Silver steel" is a real substance, but it is an alloy of steel (carbon & iron) with a very small proportion of chromium, vanadium, manganese, silicon, and tungsten--no actual silver. Too bad, since it's an extremely strong and durable metal used in high-quality tools and die-cast manufacturing.

Silver plating (via electroplating) is possible even in a old world setting, thought you would need an alchemist capable of creating a primitive battery and silver salts. The coating would have to be reapplied as it wore off.

If normal materials supposedly cannot harm certain mythic creatures, then perhaps it's not so important that the weapon be able to deal physical damage as it simply made from the material.

If normal materials supposedly can harm, but cannot kill certain mythic beasts, then perhaps it makes more sense to have a regular sword with a secondary silver dagger (or headshot) for the coup de grace.

A hybrid of strength and substance would be the most difficult to achieve, but it might be possible.

One last note: Though silver bullets are the right shape and travelling fast enough to puncture flesh, they would simply flatten themselves against even light body armor.

[Eihwaz]

On 2004-10-03 17:07, IceBurner wrote:
"Silver steel" is a real substance, but it is an alloy of steel (carbon & iron) with a very small proportion of chromium, vanadium, manganese, silicon, and tungsten--no actual silver. Too bad, since it's an extremely strong and durable metal used in high-quality tools and die-cast manufacturing.
That sounds really interesting.


Silver plating (via electroplating) is possible even in a old world setting, thought you would need an alchemist capable of creating a primitive battery and silver salts. The coating would have to be reapplied as it wore off.
Yeah, that's a possibility too...


If normal materials supposedly can harm, but cannot kill certain mythic beasts, then perhaps it makes more sense to have a regular sword with a secondary silver dagger (or headshot) for the coup de grace.
Yeah, that's what I was going for. I like that idea, perhaps he'll just have a regular sword made of that "silver steel" stuff you were talkking about, and then a electroplated silver dagger or something for finishing blows.

Anyway, the story goes that vampires, demons, and werewolves are quite vulnerable to silver. Zombies, being simply re-animated corpses, aren't any weaker to silver than they are to anything else.


A hybrid of strength and substance would be the most difficult to achieve, but it might be possible.
Good, then I still have hope. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif


One last note: Though silver bullets are the right shape and travelling fast enough to puncture flesh, they would simply flatten themselves against even light body armor.
Hm, for the purpose of bullets, they'll just be electroplated. That way, they'll be effective against more stuff.

[Sharkyland]

I only know two Silver alloys:
- Cadium Silver
- Nickel Silver

I do not know if they are strong as steel, but you might want to research stuff about it.

[Rich_T]

"Silver steel" is a real substance, but it is an alloy of steel (carbon & iron) with a very small proportion of chromium, vanadium, manganese, silicon, and tungsten--no actual silver. Too bad, since it's an extremely strong and durable metal used in high-quality tools and die-cast manufacturing.


silver steel is workable ( ie you can drill it easily) but you can also Harden it, heat it up until it glows 'cherry' red then dip it in water.
after this you will no longer be able to file it, or drill it ( using standard drills)
However once hardened it can become brittle.

[Rainbowlemon]

You would be able to make a metal alloy of silver and steel, but pure silver is in fact very malleable, so the mixture would have to be in the range of 90% steel and 10% silver maximum.

Silver coating steel is a much better alternative, although again, depending on the purity of the sliver you use, may not be a good idea - if it is very pure, the edges of the sword would blunt EXTREMELY easily, being so soft, so a mixture of silver and say, nickel or steel, would have to be used again.

This is one of the reasons why silver is only ever really used for decoration on hilts, and not for the formation of the main blade.



On 2004-10-04 09:43, Rich_T wrote:
However once hardened it can become brittle.


That would chiefly depend on the carbon content of the steel - Less Carbon = less brittle http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Antimony on 2004-10-04 15:41 ]</font>