Challenge: Force help?

[Nai_Calus]

I've watched others do it, and read what guides there are here on PSOW, but I'm still a little unsure on some stuff...

So I know that FOnewearl is generally considered the best FO for cmode... But as a n00b to cmode FOing, would I be better off with a FOmarl?

By what criterion should I judge when it's time to TP die? When I'm out of fluids and nowhere near level? In place of fluids? Should I bother with it at all in lower stages?

I understand that TP conservation depends on how good of a map you get, so I'll probably just have to figure that out myself...

Anyway, any suggestions/tips/screaming at me for being crazy?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ian-KunX on 2004-10-05 15:50 ]</font>

[SLON]

It depends on whether you are looking to lower your time, or just get through a level.
I think the best thing to do is just use your TP up and don't worry about running out; if the map is a good one you should manage to get all the way to the end and still have some TP remaining. If you choose to be conservative you might rue the decision when you get to the end and have a load of fluids spare.
I do dither at times when I am out of TP and my next level is only a few XP away - is it worth dying and wasting a scape, or should I hang around until I make the next level (it's very frustrating).
The worst thing is to run out of TP when there is a Nano or a Panarms to kill, and you can see the seconds bleeding away as you wait to either die or get your TP back whilst everyone else is also waiting for said monster to die!
The Ruins levels are a real juggling act; there are so many things to do at the same time that it gets very frenetic - Shifta, Resta, Jellen, Zalure, Foie, Rafoie, Zonde, Barta, keeping track of fluids, picking up and dropping mats and equipment, avoiding traps, deciding when to drop mates, avoiding Belras and Chaos Bringers etc etc!
As for Fonewearl or Fomarl, I would always go for Fonewearl.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SLON on 2004-10-06 05:40 ]</font>

[rena-ko]

watch your monofluids. use them first.
then let the others give you stuff.
esp in ep1 you wont level that quick so keep that in mind.

best is to know where rings are.

tp die is for later. you will have leveled a bit more / found some mind or tp mats and thus have more from a doll than in the very beginning.

call yourself lucky if a grave gives fluids.

for clear, just use your stuff wisely.
barta > everything else, since it hits multiple targets and is the cheapest tech.

in areas with bringers, keep your TP low, so if they happen to steal TP, they wont steal that much.

for TA, get all dolls (in the beginning or with time) and go all out. all about speed. all about right timing with level ups and rings and tp dies.

being fonl requires to be able to do quick kills and stay out of trouble at the same time.

have fun / good luck

[haruna]

I tend to TP die early and save fluids for later in a TA game. However, this can apply to some stages where even a n00b FO can get away with a few TP deaths.

In E1C4, I'd rather see a FO TP die during the stage and use fluids at the boss. Trying to TP die during the boss is a pain in the neck as well as wasteful of time. Trying to survive the boss with newbies after he's beached himself twice is not easy and often eats through a lot of dolls.

I usually use TP death to refill TP early in a stage and if it'll take me more than 15 or so monsters before I get a level. 15 or less, I'll use a few monofluids, but I'll watch usage carefully.

[SLON]

Hmmm, yes Haruna, in some cases it's best to get some of your Scapedolls out of the way, especially on say C7, where no matter how quickly I'm casting, I still seem to have a few left at the end.
I think it's definitely worth holding back some fluids just in case you run out at an awkward moment.
C4 is really hard to judge. Sometimes I've been embarrassed to have 2 Scapedolls left at the end of the mission, whilst other times I've had to use them all before even getting to De Rol (curse those Pan Arms!). One bad room can really mess up your plans, no matter how skilled you are.

[Nai_Calus]

Ara, I really need to learn how to judge the maps better... I keep over-conserving and finishing with a fluid(or more...) and a doll or two. x.x ...But I suppose it's better than spending the whole stage whacking things with a Rod to desperately try to level because you've burned through everything too quickly. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif And sometimes if the map is really good, you don't want to do too much attacking because there'll only be three enemies in a wave, and a HU is already on all of them. ^_^; I don't want to cause too much cancel... I don't want the HU/RAs shooting my Nanos, and they don't need me Foieing their Sharks. ^_^;

At least I know enough kana to figure out how to ask for a scape at the boss using word select if I know I'm going to need one, and how to ask for fluids. >_>;

Man... C6 was horrible, though. >_<; I had to DC from that game so I wouldn't fail them... No Resta, very few mate finds... We lost a HUcl before Vol Opt, too, to the bug that the last patch introduced. >_<; I only had a scape and a single monomate... And five fluids, we found those out the ass. >_< But I used my monomate, used my scape, and then got knocked to 2 HP with nothing. >_<; ...And they won, too. d(^_^)b *cheers for them* Go Eanae and random nice JP HUmar! Sorry I couldn't be there with you... ^-^;

...But I can't suck that badly, I've had people join my game two stages in a row, so I guess I'm not so bad I'm driving them off. >_< At least C7 I know is really easy... (Ahh, and that wonderful C5 map we had...)

Well, I'm slowly learning... I'll get it down, eventually, I think. ^_^; At least with all the fails, I'm starting to learn the maps a lot better. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif Fourth attempt at C4 netted a pass today, and I realized later that I'd only actually used the maps I printed twice. (^_^)v Eventually I'll be the know-it-all master of English-playing BB c-mode, w. ...Well, at least reasonably competent. ^_^;

Thanks for the advice, guys, I'll make sure to keep it in mind as I work towards my S-rank and getting better. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Nai_Calus]

Well, in the month since this was posted, I have long since gotten my S-rank with SSJ. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

I'm not sure I ever really got it down, I'm gonna have to work with her some more... Especially since playing as a FO n00b playing with other n00bs, it does not make for good times. Especially when nobody can get the concept of damage cancel and you've got three HUs wasting time all attacking a Belra at once(Starting with normal hits, too)... Never seen a Monest live that long before. X_x; Between damage cancel, eternally bad maps and random disconnects(The client was borked for a while after cmode came out and people got rebooted), my C9 time was embarrasingly over an hour. X_x;;;;

Good runs did happen, though, and SSJAeris69 possesses my best times for C6 and C8. Seems impossible, I remember C8 having problems... Maybe I re-did it, or maybe the map was just THAT good. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif And C6... Oh man, that run was awesomeness itself. The map wasn't the best possible, but very few dubchics, almost no Garanz, and more fluids than I could possibly use, I had to keep turning them down when the HUs/RA dropped them for me. ^_^; Vol Opt went so well that nobody got hit on the first form, and I got Resta 3. Clear time 37"17

Here are her times, if anyone is that bored:

11"15 - Pitiful. EOS has 8'35
55"56 - This was... Bad. A HUcaseal left us for a shower and dinner in the middle of it. >_>; Constantly out of fluids, lousy map, people kept shooting the god forsaken bloody Nano Dragons. EOS has best time for this, 29"34
37"37 - People got lost, hit the wrong switches, I missed one forgetting that the person with me was a n00b without maps and had to backtrack... Otherwise it was OK, but my best time is 11 minutes 5 seconds better than this. EOS has best time, 26"32.
38"05 - Only six minutes worse than best time, good run, nobody failed us at DRL as usually happened. Took about 6 tries. Best EOS, 32"29.
32"27 - Eh, my C5 is fairly consistent, it seems, best is 29"05(Kal'Roth-ylt). Still my worst for this stage.
37"17 - The run of joy. Seriously, I want to play that run again, it was that good and fun. XD Best time.
41"59 - Don't really remember this run. Fairly bad time. Best is 36"05, belongs to Kal'Roth-ylt
37"03 - Best time again. Still have no idea how. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif
1'06"18 - Ugh, ugh, ugh. I've already covered this one, lol. I didn't get enough HP either, so I was on the team's last scape when Falz died. >_<;;; Everything went wrong with this run. Except I had enough fluids, so. ^_^;

5'57"57 <--- Worst time yet, but it can(And will) get better. I just need to find people of equal incompetence, not worse incompetence. ...Though if I were truly that incompetent, I would fail stages consistently, and most of my fails this time were intentional to ditch a bad map. XD I need to spend more time on... Well hell, Pisces 6 is down for the time being thanks to ST, heh. Wonder what the interim C-mode block is.

...I can do C9 in my sleep now. I had to do it about... What, 25 times? More? All the damned reboots... ^_^; ARGH THE OTHER THING THAT ANNOYED ME. Do you people think the shit in the doorways appears there by magic?! Quit wasting time grabbing the boxes! You scream at me for using techs to tag stuff and have me be your support whore and can't figure out how to use your mates just because I have Resta, and then you waste time grabbing boxes. I know they're there, we can all see them, I'll get them and dump the stuff you need for you. And those mates? I have my own, and I ain't using 'em. I'm saving them up for when you need them. -_-;

And dear god, if you have something for me, DROP IT IN THE DOORWAY unless I need it that exact second. Good for you, you found an HP mat. Leave it in the doorway to the next room and I'll get it on the way out. Don't drop it in the middle of the room when I'm busy and trying to dodge monsters that nobody but me is dealing with because they're gangbanging the Belra and then expect me to come over to you and get it. >_<

And please, please, please. If I have a map or know the stage and you don't? LISTEN TO ME, FOR THE LOVE OF RATI. *sobs*

...And you'd never figure that I actually love c-mode from how I go on about it, would you, lol?

And my combined best time is a pitiful 4'39"31. Though I'd like to have that all on one character so I could get that down. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif I need to get really good at cmode and start TAing, I obsess over my times too much. ^_^;

...Let's hope that it doesn't double post this time. >_>;

[Tycho]

Ya, TP management and dodging for your life at the same time is hard. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif
I've heard you talk mostly about E1C, is E2C even available on BB yet? I still want to do that as a HUcast on GC, but I need more time. And a set team would be nice as well.
I think it's not really necessary to go for a FOmarl even when you don't have much experience at c-mode yet. In most cases where the FOnewearl will get instantly killed (Belras, Bringers, Deldoggies, maybe Sinows or Sorcerers), I think the FOmarl wouldn't last long either. In cases where you don't die anyway... heal. For c-mode more MST/TP and simple tech bonuses > more HP/DFP and S/D bonuses in my opinion.

Good luck on your times. ^ ^;

[yellow5]

I'm no c-mode expert, but if you want to TA, stick with one character. In order to play a FO effectively, you just need to practice by playing the stages over and over until you've memorized the maps really well.

These are my suggestions on using fluids/scapes based on this arbitrary system of "Conserve," "Use freely," and "Go all out":

C1: Use freely
C2: Conserve (when TAing, HUs will drop scapes, FO will drop mates)
C3: Use freely (HUs/RAs drop scapes)
C4: Go all out (when TAing, there are 2 FOrces in the team, and the scapes and fluids need to be shared accordingly)
C5: Go all out
C6: Use freely
C7-C8: Go all out (HUs and even RAs should drop their scapes near the beginning so that the FOrce has nearly an endless supply of TP).
C9: Use freely (Go all out if you have enough HP to survive Falz's Divine Punishment attack)

As you can see, most of the time, you shouldn't have to worry about TP. Just kill the enemies that a HU/RA can't kill fast (Pans, Nanos, Belras, Delsabers, etc). This is based on TA experience, so your experience will vary depending on what kind of game it is. Again, I'm not an expert at all, so do what you will with these suggestions.

If yout are in a non-TA game, you should conserve as much as you can...