Window Mode Question

[Eihwaz]

I'm curious about the Window Mode for BB. I am thinking that if you were to put BB into windowed mode...that it would be less of a strain to the system than fullscreen mode. Is this true?

I'm curious to know this becuase if window mode WILL allow my comp to play BB a bit faster, I won't have to buy a new graphics card. ^_^

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eihwaz on 2004-10-08 17:58 ]</font>

[VioletSkye]

For pretty much any pc game, running it in windowed mode is far less intensive in terms of your system resources. So the short answer is yes http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Para]

I'll have to say no and what Violetskye said imo is wrong.

Running in window mode actually takes up more system resources than what logic dictates.

When you run in window mode, the system needs to update both the windows desktop and your game at the same time. Not only that but your graphics card needs to work for your desktop and your game which indeed slows down the game. Want to experiment? Go play Unreal Tournament 2004 in window mode and full screen and you'll notice the difference. FPS will fall in window mode.

[VioletSkye]

On 2004-10-06 21:32, Nites wrote:
I'll have to say no and what Violetskye said imo is wrong.

Running in window mode actually takes up more system resources than what logic dictates.

When you run in window mode, the system needs to update both the windows desktop and your game at the same time. Not only that but your graphics card needs to work for your desktop and your game which indeed slows down the game. Want to experiment? Go play Unreal Tournament 2004 in window mode and full screen and you'll notice the difference. FPS will fall in window mode.


Incorrect. With every game I've ever tried, I ALWAYS get better fps in windowed mode. Try Diablo, UT2K4, Q3 or even farcry. Want an even better example, test on Doom3 and I guarantee you'll see the framerate climb in windowed mode. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

No offense to Nites, but his statement is ridiculously untrue.

BTW, another thing to try that can often help, is to set your desktop resolution to 16 bit while you run the game.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2004-10-06 21:51 ]</font>

[Stan64]

And in the end both of you are right. Depending on system config. In fullscreen, you almost only need GFX, window mode depends on other things too to run the other applications. =)

[VioletSkye]

On 2004-10-06 22:07, Stan64 wrote:
And in the end both of you are right.

Well, not really lol. The proof is as they say, "in the puddin'. " If you have Doom 3 test it yourself (as I just did.) In full screen mode running 1600x1200 with everything on high I get an average fps of 43.5. In windowed mode running the same configuration (1600X1200 with everything set on high) I get and average fps of 45.2.

If you want to run the test yourself, bring down the console window and type in timedemo demo1

Make sure you run the test twice in a row and take the second result. Do that for both modes and post your results http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

As for UT2k4, I get an average fps of 155 in full screen and 163 in windowed mode. Case closed my friend http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2004-10-06 22:40 ]</font>

[Para]

Err wtf? That sounds absurd. The only way I can see FPS boost is that if the settings were lowered. Talk to most gamers and they tell you that window mode is generally slower. Even playing PSO PC v2, window mode was slower than full screen.

[SheWren]

I hope it will allow me to run msn in background without crashing BB whenever a pop up message arrive...that would be useful.

[VioletSkye]

Well, all I can say, is for you to try it yourself and see. The desktop takes almost no resources to display and refresh, so having to keep that going in the background doesn't cause your videocard to even break a sweat. Also consider, that running in windowed mode means that you don't need to have Vsync (Vertical Synchronization) running because it is already using your desktop's refresh rate (meaning its pointless to run in windowed mode.) Turning Vsync off can make a noticable difference in the framerate.

It is true that some games can be problematic in windowed mode, and if you aren't running the latest drivers that can cause issues as well. The problem many people had running games like quake and unreal in windowed mode was that on a driver level, the VPU/GPU didn't always register the change in resolution when the game resolution and desktop resolution were different. Both the Forceware from Nvidia and the Catalyst drivers from ATI have long since remedied those issues. Too many non pc gamers, don't ever update their drivers and if your card is a few years old, that can cause alot of problems with newer games.

Anyone running PSOBB on a slightly older pc, should have updated their drivers to the current version. But again, as far as the windowed mode is concerned, don't take my word for it, experiment for yourself and see. Once the windowed mode is "legitly" available to people, it won't hurt anything to try it out. If it helps, then great, it you don't notice any improvement, then no harm no foul and go back to full screen. Nites if you do have Doom 3, please post your results here as I would be interested to see what the difference is for you between full and windowed mode.

As I mentioned in my previous post, type in:
timedemo demo1

Run the test 2 times in a row and use the second result. Do that for both modes and let me know. Also if you have UT2K4, run a fly by test in both modes and let me know what you get. If you want another example, run practically any emulation software and see if the games don't run smoother in windowed mode.

[Para]

maybe this would help..
i still find it hard to believe that things would be faster in window mode.

http://gamingforce.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52108

[VioletSkye]

LOL, how does that help? I can find just as many threads on other forums that say windowed mode generally runs faster http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Take a look over at the HardOCP forums and you'll see what I'm talking about (especially in regards to Doom 3.) You are completely missing the point however. I asked you TWICE to run the test YOURSELF and see. You haven't even done any of your own research. The other point you missed is MY EVIDENCE that shows that windowed mode IS faster on the games I tested. Seeing 2 posts in a thread you started by people whom I don't know and have no idea what qualifies them to make any judgments is not very convincing.

And finally, you seemed to have missed my other statement where I mentioned, that when windowed mode is released, it won't hurt anyone to try it. If it works better than great, if not, then go back to fullscreen. This is not an attack on your Nites, but I have proved beyond doubt that for MY pc, the games I tested gave slightly better framerates. That is FACT, not speculation. Again I ask for the third time, for you to test it yourself and see. It may very well be that some games run better in fullscreen, but it is also true that many games run better in windowed mode. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


Also I don't see why directx is taxed more in windowed mode. The API's (application programming interfaces) simply work as a sorrt of bridge that helps the hardware talk to the software. It is also used to give multi media appls (not just games) access to the features on your videocard. Simply put it merely acts as a communication bridge between the multimedia app and the hardware thats running it. Because most modern games are centered around directx (although not all of them are, some still are centered on OpenGL) having the latest version of directx eases the use of newer features (pixel shaders etc.) It has nothing to do with whether the screen is full or windowed. I should add however ( and I think I already mentioned it) that if you play in windowed mode, you will want to reduce the screen mode to 16 bit or you may see some serious slowdown.

Anyway, I'm not here to criticize you, I simply answered the posters question with the best knowledge I had based on my own tests over the years. I'm not a DirectX expert by any means, but I do build a lot of custom pcs and I've used and tested alot of hardware and I have seen firsthand on other people's pc's (as well as my own) that running certain games in windowed mode helped them acheive better framerates. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Ok, now you have me curious as to what the actual, real world difference is between the two modes and its gonna bug me until I get some definitive answer LOL. I've got quite a few programmer friends that still work for Microsoft so I will throw some questions at them and see if they can explain exactly what the differences are. If you find any concrete info, please let me know so I can check it out. It may not necessarily end the debate but it would be nice to have a clearer understanding http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif

And lastly, I hope you don't think I was being harsh in statements above, I am just asking that you at least test it on some of your games to see if it helps or not. If you find that windows mode yields lower framerates for you, then I will of course believe you. I really didn't want to turn this into some kind of hostile battle and I hope you don't feel like I'm attacking you. As I mentioned above, I would love to find some hard facts that would help both of us understand better whats going on between the two modes http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_beer.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2004-10-07 22:22 ]</font>

[Para]

actually i already stated in previous post that i have tested it with ut2k4. i have ut2k4 and the game does run faster for me in full screen

[VioletSkye]

On 2004-10-08 13:06, Nites wrote:
actually i already stated in previous post that i have tested it with ut2k4. i have ut2k4 and the game does run faster for me in full screen


I believe you http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I know there is tons of info on the web but I found a book at Barnes and Nobles that I'll pick up today called Beginning DirectX 9 (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=wp4elpBAJg&isbn=1592003494&itm=2). It has tons of great info and covers DirectX 9 in detail. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2004-10-08 14:00 ]</font>

[anwserman]

Odd.
For me, it was always Fullscreen > Windowed in term of FPS. That and everyone else at http://www.truevision3d.com believes it too. I use Windowed whenever I program because I can multi-task at the same time, but when running in fullscreen I always got like 5-30 more FPS.

Anyway, I think the concept that it depends on the system config is true... not every computer is the same.

[VioletSkye]

I agree, the more info I find, the more I think it depends on your setup and also on the game. I hate to keep bringing up Doom 3 but for alot of people that didn't have very good videocards, it helped them improve their framerates quite abit (and it boosts mine a few frames also but the fullscreen runs great already,) and I remember when Diablo 2 was released and people were wanting to run multiple instances of it for cheating purposes lol, it made a huge improvement running the 2 or 3 instances in windowed mode. There are so many factors involved which is why I'm buying the book and going to ask some friends.

It would be great if some of the blueburst players could post here in regards to fps in both fullscreen and windowed mode. BTW Eihwaz, as I stated already, give it a shot and see if it helps http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2004-10-08 19:45 ]</font>