Best Team for C-mode?

[Sitka]

I know this topic has been done before, but I thought revisiting the topic might be a helpful discussion both for us returning to the game to finish off unfinished business and for some of the new folks who might have questions about challenge mode.

We've been picking up a fair number of c-mode players on xbox lately and between the new folks who think every box is their personal property and cry when the Fonewearl doesn't give up the HP mat to the Hucast and the old timers who frankly have lost too much grey matter to remember how to play the game anymore (that would be me), I had some observations.

Digigram and I have been playing a few challenge games lately and I noticed that when I switched from a Hucast back to a Racast in mines, we were MUCH faster and easily handed the Baranz, Sinows and assorted mechanical villains. Vol Opt was a joke.

Maybe it's because I'm much more comfortable playing a Racast, but between shooting stuff out of the sky, hitting the traps quicker and keeping the baddies distracted so the other teams members could slice them up, things seemed to go much easier.

When playing with Asia Skyly, Sanzo, Dylan, Bacon and others, it seemed the going philosophy was to use a good force (usually a Fonewearl) and three Hucasts or 2 Hucasts and a Hucaseal, but I remember back then on Episode II, I did much better with my Racast then with my Hucast as well. Maybe I just suck at playing a Hucast - I don't know.

I'm certainly not an expert at c-mode, but it seems to me that a good force, 2 Hucasts and a Racast looks to be the best combination for the folks that I've played with. Of course, having played several characters through Ep 1, I'm trying now with less common characters with varying degrees of success/failure.

I'm still trying to locate a good Ep 2 team, but those with the skills and experience for EP 2 are sadly missing from the xbox these days.

Anyway, just some observations on c-mode team play. If anyone has further ideas/comments/suggestions that could add to the discussion, maybe a few more folks will be willing to give online, four member, team playing, no hacks, no cheats, just great fun a try. I still think c-mode is absolutely one of the best things about playing PSO online.

[rena-ko]

ep1
c1: huc huc huc fonl
c2: fonl fonl fonl huc/fonl
c3: huc huc huc fonl
c4: huc huc huc fonm
c5: huc huc huc fonl
c6: huc huc huc fonl
c7: huc huc huc fonl
c8: huc huc huc fonl
c9: huc huc huc fonl

ep2
c1: fonl huc fonl hucl*
c2: huc fonl huc fonm*
c3: fonl fonl hucl hucl/humr
c4: huct huct hucl fonl*
c5: fonl fonl fonl/huct huct

*= order important

huc means either huct or hucl.
sometimes you can replace a hucl with a rac - both are gunners
traps are usually the way to go, ep 1
if you want to have a sure clear in c9, 2c4, 2c5, use foml instead of fonl.

these however are TA setups.

in mines areas its actually the force's job to get the canadines down. a hucl with blades kills sinows off pretty quick and nothing beats a huct in c6 with a good buster.

thing about rangers is, unless they find a good gun in ep1, they are a deadweight for TAing. however, a hell or demon weapon will greatly speed things up. then its a matter of how good a player is. TAing as a hunl is also possible, just not really recommended.
if you think you can do as much or more damage as a ract compared to a huct, then go for it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2005-01-12 09:03 ]</font>

[Sitka]

Thanks for the info rena-ko. Your philosophy is pretty much in line with the folks I used to play c-mode with. I find it interesting how you place heavy emphasis on the Fonewearl in a few places - having played that char a bit, I can see why. Might have to be a bit lucky on getting enough fluids.

I have been lucky with my Racast on getting some real nice guns early in several games and that has allowed me to do a fair amount of damage, but not as much as the hucasts.

When you're TAing, do you prefer to pair the hucasts/hucaseals to finish off sinows and tougher enemies, or do you prefer to have each huc take on enemies solo? I've heard both philosophies.

If using a Fomarl, it is possible for her to use a gun in certain situations to save on TP and assist with damage production - or is that simply not realistic?

Finally, when playing three hucasts, I've found that using traps is difficult because they usually go off a few seconds after when I needed them to. If a ranger is in the room or if I'm the ranger, the traps can be shot and activated immediately which helps greatly when something like a multiple Baranz spawn or multiple sinow spawn happens (not to mention Delbiters!).

Anyway, thanks for the information - I'll see if I'm able to get enough lads together to get some serious TA games going.

[KveerRaven]

I too have found that using a RAcast can make C-Mode much more proficient.

Since time immemorial, I was a HUcast, along with 2 others, and there was only one RAcast. We were getting through each section slowly and it seemed that enemies were taking a little longer to kill considering the majority of us had to basically put our head into the lions mouth whenever we entered a new room, especially when it came to the Mines. So once we were finished, I said, "You know what, I'm going to take out another RAcast." No sooner did I do just that and we started the next sequence, both I and the other RAcast their owned every section! We'd set traps, shoot them out at the apropriate time, when they took affect, the HUs would charge it, weaken each baddi, us RAs would finish them off. It seemed like we were zipping through every room and section. It was great.

I fully backup, implement, and understand this philosophy! And yes, even when using a FOnewearl has its great advantages in a Team.

[digigram]

I'd say in some if not most situation, finding a good percentage handgun while using a HUcaseal, is just as good/if not better than having a RAcast. Both have traps, both can use handguns when they get them, one can use a RIFLE, and thats the only difference. At least the only one I can see.

one can use daggers and handgun. one cannot. if a person is a good enough player, that player can multitask enough to the point where switching from daggers to handgun all while dropping a freeze trap, turning around and shooting it then switching to daggers again and still having 3 clinks of a Freeze left, all while being able to out damage the enemies.


at lvl 15 with crap Cmode mag, ATA is only 4 points apart, while HUcaseal has 40-50 more ATP before equiping a weapon, and the DFP are 10-15 better on the HUcaseal..


I guess it is just all how you play really.. I play better with all androids... than I do with human/newmans..


I really think you are just more comfortable with a RAcast sitka my friend... see you tonight?

[Sitka]

Well Digi, you may be right about the comfort thing. I really enjoy playing Sitka Blue D and I know how to play a Racast about as well as anyone I guess.

My best c-mode character has been Bu-EI++, the Hucaseal. She was my first character through EP1 and she's sitting one stage away from finishing EP2 if we can ever get a team together. She is incredibly versatile - no doubt.

I made her strictly for c-mode - I don't enjoy playing her in regular games that much, but that might change if I start to play her more regularly.

I'll be on tonight if you want to form a good team like we had last night. I can bring just about anything, so let me know what you need.

[digigram]

I have this setup right now.

HUcast: at C7 <---would like to go to 9 tonight
Hucast: at C6 <---would like to go to 9 tonight
Hucaseal: at C7 <---would like to go to 9 tonight
HUcaseal: at C2 or 3
RAcast: at C1 LOL
RAcaseal: at C2
RAcast: at C2

So i'll be on around.....umm...3 or 4 your time until 9-10 your time.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: digigram on 2005-01-13 06:16 ]</font>

[SLON]

A Hucaseal is the most versatile character, simply because she can use guns and sabers. She moves quicker than a Hucast, and hits more often; she does more damage with a gun than a Racast, and can often equip a gun when a Hucast can't.
The only stage where I think the Hucaseal struggles is C9. It takes her ages to gain the ATP for a Pallasch, and also the ATA for a Railgun. In both instances you must find lots of KPs and Arms quickly.
Having said all that, when there are 3 hunters in the party, I would opt for 2 Hucasts and 1 Hucaseal as my preference.
There is no doubt that in C5/C6 a Rac is very useful, but across all 9 stages, a Rac is weaker than a Hunter.

[Nai_Calus]

What's the usual philosophy on dual/multiple FO? I ask this because the other day I did C4 on Taurus 5, and the 4th player to join was a JP FOmarl(I'd made with my FOnewearl). I let him/her join because I didn't feel like waiting any longer for a fourth and I figured it was going to suck, but that it might be doable... Well, it was, and it was my second best C4 time to date(59 seconds slower than my best)... With a map that might as well have been called Endless Nightmare 2 1/2 or Hopkins Loses His Ice Spinner Again. We're talking 3 Nanos and 3 Pan Arms at once. >_<;;;

So... I know Rena was recommending 3/4 FOnls for C2, but is more than one FO a good idea sometimes in other stages, too? Even with two FOs, we didn't run out of fluids too quickly... I still had a couple left(! >< Bad FO!) at the end even going crazy on the last area, and the only death was the FOml once. I realize that we got hellishly lucky with the drops(Fluids, Mind mats, FOml had a Dim Rod, I dunno what the HUs got but they seemed to do just fine, Resta 3 for both of us to keep the HUs from running out of mates at DRL(Not that he lived long enough for that to be in danger of happening))...But yeah. Anyway. *end rambling*

[Sitka]

Good stuff.

Last night we had a pretty decent setup for C6: 2 hucaseals, a hucast and I played the Fomarl. It was a frickin breeze - easily my best run in c-mode for that stage.

I'm not prefect playing a Fomarl, but I know enough not to make a ton of mistakes and the crew we ran with were all experienced c-mode players.

What a difference it makes to play c-mode with folks who know what the hell they are doing - it's more than just a map thing; it's about playing the game well.

Anyway, even with a shitload of Baranz spawns, no resta, and no gizonde (supposedly dropped, but I missed it), we cleaned up. It was hella fun.

Looking forward to getting that team together for some more runs. Hope I can catch you all tonight.

[digigram]

I believe it was like this.

Ramarl
Hucast
Hucaseal
Fomarl

I wasn't really to sure about the Ramarl but oh well, we won didn't we. Proabably would have been better with another hucaseal.

[Sitka]

I thought for sure there were two Hucaseals - that was a Ramarl!

Damn!

I as so nervous about playing Ceili (haven't played her in about 8 months) that I was totally focused on her and wasn't paying a lot of attention to what the other characters were doing (obviously). As long as you all had shifta and I was taking down stuff in the air (and an occasional sinow or two), I felt that I was doing my job.

Oh well, now I feel pretty stupid. I'll pay more attention next time.

We did get through that pretty damn well though.

[SLON]

Ian, I would say 2 Fo in C4 is standard. If you get a Pan Arms that refuses to split, you need a Fo to deal with it. Seeing how the team must go 2 ways at 2 different stages, this is a must for a good time. Not only that, but if you are lucky enough to find Gizonde and Gifoie then the Fos will help kill De Rol off in no time.

[haruna]

On 2005-01-12 08:57, rena-ko wrote:
ep1
c1: huc huc huc fonl
c2: fonl fonl fonl huc/fonl
c3: huc huc huc fonl
c4: huc huc huc fonm
c5: huc huc huc fonl
c6: huc huc huc fonl
c7: huc huc huc fonl
c8: huc huc huc fonl
c9: huc huc huc fonl

ep2
c1: fonl huc fonl hucl*
c2: huc fonl huc fonm*
c3: fonl fonl hucl hucl/humr
c4: huct huct hucl fonl*
c5: fonl fonl fonl/huct huct


For the most, I agree with these set ups, however:
-E1C3: I like having a RAc in this stage. My best time in this stage was with a HUct, HUcl, RAct and FOnl. Granted, finding a nice autogun in the 2nd room helped.

-E1C6: The likelihood of a HUcl using lockguns is not that great. RAcaseals with lockguns can take down canabins as fast as a FO, sometimes faster.
A 50M 30H lockgun would cap a canabin in a single H attack with shifta.
EDIT: There are loads of traps in this stage too. With Garanzes as well as Sinows, I've had my ass saved countless times by a RA popping off freeze traps before being pounded.
I tried playing a RA and while my teammates thought I did a pretty good job, I went freakin cross-eyed switching between checking the radar and watching the battle.

-E2C1 FOnls can dispatch enemies pretty quickly but they're practically deadweight on the boss. My favorite team is 3 HUcls and 1 FOnl. Get some daggers then hit the head and the 2 sections near it. With good %s, you can get 1 HUct doing as much as 140 damage per NHH vs the ~48-52 damage done by hitting 3 segments with Barta for 16-17 damage
EDIT: There are loads of traps in this stage, especially in area 4. I like sending 3 gun users(typically HUcaseals or possibly HUmars) to the various 4 corners of this crazy map.

I haven't tried 2FOs on E2C3, but I've meant to!
Pouding the grif with zonde in the air, barta on the ground, then being able to run away easily.
I've typically found pretty good Snipers so I've been pondering the FOnl FOnl RAct/l HUcl combo.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: haruna on 2005-01-24 20:10 ]</font>

[rena-ko]

for TA in 1c4, its really dependant on what youre aiming at. you'll definitely have to play genkai (remake until good map, then restart until good items drop really soon).

FOnm for gi tech boost. needs gizonde or gifoie badly.
this will speed up the boss battle very much

at least 2 HUct - and have luck with 2 good AB H swords which you grind.


fourth spot is open for theories:

- ranger for some elemental or hp gun.
- fonl as second force - just for the teaming up / soloing one part.
- hucl as ranger substitute (given you find a gun she can equip...).
- whatever else you feel good in playing.


about the 2c3 plan...
racl is ok there, but also kinda risky.
a hucl or humar is really the better choice. both can equip guns with start stats and have enough HP to survive most stuff without a HP unit (unlike any ra class).

[Sitka]

Rena-ko (what does that mean, btw?), Slon, Haruna et al; your posts are terrific. I'm enjoying the TA concepts you folks are pushing and quite anxious to try them out.

Now if we can just put together four folks on xbox at the same time......

anticipating.

[rena-ko]

little princess http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

ouch, cmode on US xbox...
good luck to you then ^-^;

[Sitka]

Wow!

I just checked out your website rena-ko - amazing!

Yes, US xbox has been less than overwhelming, but we do have a small, pretty good, still improving c-mode group playing and I'm hoping to keep at it until I've improved greatly. I was amazed at your EP stage 3 time - I had some difficulty surviving that stage, let alone TAing it. I'm impressed.

Thanks for the valuable information!

[SLON]

Sitka, I love your enthusiasm for this game! A pity you are not on Gamecube!

[Sitka]

I might just have to go find a Gamecube version and join you all - for shits and giggles!

Still trying to figure out that Sinow trick on C4. All I've been able to do so far is die from his damn crit.

And anyone got a strategy for that damn sinow next to the chain sawd fence in the next to last hallway. Pretty frickin annoying to always drop a scape there.

[Ryna]

On 2005-01-25 07:31, Sitka wrote:
I might just have to go find a Gamecube version and join you all - for shits and giggles!

Still trying to figure out that Sinow trick on C4. All I've been able to do so far is die from his damn crit.


Doing the Sinow trick takes a little bit of practice. You might just want to find a partner and try practicing it for a half hour. I forget the exact positioning you are supposed to have for that.



And anyone got a strategy for that damn sinow next to the chain sawd fence in the next to last hallway. Pretty frickin annoying to always drop a scape there.


What area are you talking about? I don't remember any chain traps in the last couple of rooms of c4 before Olga.

[Sitka]

My memory is a bit fuzzy (as usual), but there is a chain sawd fence right near the end at the first part of a long hallway. It's a very sharp corner and I have yet to get through that particular fence without getting stuck. Almost as soon as you get stuck, a Sinow jumps you and if the crit from the jump doesn't kill you, he freezes you as you try to stand back up and then punches you.

At least that's what I can remember from dying twice there last night.

I might be a little off on the exact location. When I run it again (hopefully tonight), I'll try to take note of the exact location.

[rena-ko]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/psowrena/map_21.jpg

most TA players use the spot in the healing-ring-room because they can clear some boxes on the way and go on killing stuff in the squid room (aka 'level up-room').

you can manage a cleartime of 5-6 minutes for the first area with this trick.

technically, a rac isnt killed by a sinow, but it would be better if the local HUct (and you cant call the game TA if you lack a huct in the team) does this part.


for easy trying you could find yourself a helper and start up as player 2. pretty soon you'll come into a room with squids who you can use to train this spot.

easy guidelines:
stand from where you drop onto the glass floor, next to the rocks - the ramp side doesnt work.

[Sitka]

Awesome rena-ko!

Now I just got to get in there and practice.

[Ryna]

On 2005-01-25 08:46, Sitka wrote:
My memory is a bit fuzzy (as usual), but there is a chain sawd fence right near the end at the first part of a long hallway. It's a very sharp corner and I have yet to get through that particular fence without getting stuck. Almost as soon as you get stuck, a Sinow jumps you and if the crit from the jump doesn't kill you, he freezes you as you try to stand back up and then punches you.

At least that's what I can remember from dying twice there last night.

I might be a little off on the exact location. When I run it again (hopefully tonight), I'll try to take note of the exact location.


The only area that I can of that matches your description is the area that is used in Respective Tomorrow. There is a long hallway at the end of the level with two saw blades. Two Sinow are activated (one at each end) as you run toward the exit. Usually it is best to hit those Sinows with a ranged attack and then close for the kill.

[Sitka]

So, would it be safer as the force to allow the Hucaseals through first to hit the sinows and then rush them and enter the corridor only after the area has been cleared?

[Ryna]

On 2005-01-25 10:29, Sitka wrote:
So, would it be safer as the force to allow the Hucaseals through first to hit the sinows and then rush them and enter the corridor only after the area has been cleared?


Generally, the FO is using the healing ring at that point in time. However, in a TA game, the FO may elect to skip that ring. If that is the case, everyone should enter the hallway at the same time, head straight for the exit, and try to skip the Sinow. That can be rather tricky to do, but it can be done.

[Sitka]

I've got to practice my timing then. Wow.

I feel like I'm in a snicker's commercial: "not going anywhere for a while?"

[Ryna]

On 2005-01-25 10:36, Sitka wrote:
I've got to practice my timing then. Wow.

I feel like I'm in a snicker's commercial: "not going anywhere for a while?"


If someone cannot get around that Sinow, then two people should attack it with the rest going to the next area.