Mascot Whoring, the Nintendo edition...

[Dek]

...Better yet, there will only be a Nintendo edition.

But what the fuck is with the recent obsession that Nintendo has with Mario all of a sudden. You might be thinking "They always had that." No, this is worse than before...

If you want proof, here it is...

Recent Releases:
Mario Party 6
Super Mario 64 DS

Upcoming Appearances (you'll see why):
Mario Baseball
Mario Kart DS
Mario Party Advance
Super Mario DS (there are two of them)
Dance Dance Revolution with Mario
NBA Street Vol. 3 (yes, you're reading this correctly for those who don't know)

There are several more that I can't think of at the moment, but seriously. Nintendo has really been trying to get Mario into everyone's asses and they're doing a horrible job.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Arthas_Zero on 2005-01-13 06:21 ]</font>

[Sayara]

An attempt to get Nintendo money? Maybe this is a way to get Nintendo some 3rd parties back to them, or maybe not. But its surely nothing to get crabby about it. I mean just ditch the Nintendo if it bugs you right?

[Outrider]

It guarantees a certain number of units sold. Easy as that.

What's up with Disney and always using Mickey Mouse, yo!?

[TheOneHero]

On 2005-01-13 09:03, Outrider wrote:
It guarantees a certain number of units sold. Easy as that.

What's up with Disney and always using Mickey Mouse, yo!?



Or Sega always using Sonic. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Balthor]

mascot

n : a person or animal that is adopted by a team or other group as a symbolic figure

Gee, I fucking wonder.

[Dek]

Mickey Mouse and Sonic. Yes I know...But do you see them in a worthless excuse for bullshit let alone a worthless excuse for a good game? No, you really don't (though Sonic Heroes was a little shitty)

[Orange_Coconut]

Sonic Shuffle? Sonic Spinball? I also believe that Sonic CD was quite a crappy game, going into the future and past... It was boring and the change of time periods were just confusing and seemed to be unrelated to actually beating the level.

Then there's Sonic Battle... That was a poorly made and really boring game where you had sonic characters beating eachother up, seemingly like powerstone or something... With the way the levels were at least.

Also there was Sonic Pinball Party... He was the rival of Mario, he had the same type of crap. Maybe not Sonic Tennis or anything, but still some cheesy excuses for games just like Mario.

[anwserman]

Actually... Sonic Spinball did suck. However, I've never played Sonic Pinball Party but the reviews of that game were good... and Sonic CD kicked ass. Totally.

It was one of the most rewarding games that I have ever conquered. Period. It was long for a Sonic game, devilishly challenging and the past - present - future was awesome. Because, things you changed in the past were reflected in the present and then the future... http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

But yeah. If you're a mascot, you're open for whoring. Plain and simple. (*caugh Lara Croft caugh*

[Skorpius]

Soul Calibur ???? Link omfgz

This is n't the first time, why be surprised? ;o

[Solstis]

On 2005-01-14 20:08, anwserman wrote:
Actually... Sonic Spinball did suck. However, I've never played Sonic Pinball Party but the reviews of that game were good... and Sonic CD kicked ass. Totally.

It was one of the most rewarding games that I have ever conquered. Period. It was long for a Sonic game, devilishly challenging and the past - present - future was awesome. Because, things you changed in the past were reflected in the present and then the future... http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

But yeah. If you're a mascot, you're open for whoring. Plain and simple. (*caugh Lara Croft caugh*



Sonic CD was god. Makes me wish my Sega CD still worked.

[Deathscythealpha]

On 2005-01-14 19:53, Orange_Coconut wrote:
I also believe that Sonic CD was quite a crappy game, going into the future and past... It was boring and the change of time periods were just confusing and seemed to be unrelated to actually beating the level.


Heretic!

*Runs off to build a pyre for burning Heretics on*

But seriously, Sonic CD is considered by nearly everyone to be the best Sonic game out of the series. Great level design which included puzzle elements for once, rewarding boss fights and a very cool animated intro/outro. The only bad thing about the game was the really sucky US soundtrack that just coulnt stand next to the Jpn/Euro soundtrack.

But game character whorage isnt new by far. Try and count how many Capcom games Ryu has turned up in. Its just a way for a games company to make money off existing populer characters. Would you be more interested in buying Mario Baseball or Nobody Character Baseball? (no one be a smart ass and say they wouldnt want to buy a baseball game period)

[Orange_Coconut]

Oh.. When I had Sonic CD it was on the computer, had no sound.. Not sure where I got it, so judging by everyone's response I guess I am out of line for saying that, or something. Anyways, those other games are crap, and I have played them (in my opinion they're crap anyways)

[Deathscythealpha]

On 2005-01-15 10:50, Orange_Coconut wrote:
Oh.. When I had Sonic CD it was on the computer, had no sound.. Not sure where I got it, so judging by everyone's response I guess I am out of line for saying that, or something. Anyways, those other games are crap, and I have played them (in my opinion they're crap anyways)



Mwegh, the PC version. Only really good thing about it was the ability to rip the animations from the files, including the sketched opening sequence. It is now unplayable on any PC as most modern day PC's just run to fast for the poor game.

Yep, Sonic Spinball was a sucky cash in and Sonic Shuffle just had no heart in it at all. It was only released as a 'Shit! Mario Party is doing so well me must make somethignt o rival it'. Silly, silly SEGA.

[Zarode]

On 2005-01-13 11:13, Balthor_The_Defiled wrote:
mascot

n : a person or animal that is adopted by a team or other group as a symbolic figure

Gee, I fucking wonder.



http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif You idiot(s).

[Skett]

Well, Mario is arguably Nintendo's most popular characters so I wonder why they are making games staring him.

On the third party thing, Nintendo is trying to rebuild the gap that grew through the N64/most of the GameCube days and letting others use their franchises is one way to help rebuild those gaps. After all, DDR w/ Mario brings in the DDR fans, Mario fans, and Nintendo fanboys to equal good sales.

By the way, Mario isn't the only franchise being lended to other companies. EA's boxing game (I can't remember name) is getting Punch-Out as an unlockable in the GameCube version.

Mascot-whoring, in my opinion, is selling the character out for means that many would deam... not alright. Like how several developers let Playboy show pictures of some of their female characters nude.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skett on 2005-01-15 18:26 ]</font>

[Outrider]

And have you actually played Mario Party 6? To be fair, it's the first Mario Party game I've played since the second, but it's actually quite fun.

[Ness]

Dude, why are you so suprised by this? Nintendo has been obsessed with mario eversince the guy starred in his first game back in the 80's.

[PrinceBrightstar]

Mario Accountancy
Mario sets the VCR
Mario does the weekly shopping

http://uploads.ungrounded.net/content.php?id=158631&name=158631_decline.swf&title=Decline%20of%20Video%20Gaming&date=1106024400&quality=b&uj=0&w=550&h=400

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jonathan_F on 2005-01-18 12:06 ]</font>

[Ancient]

Dont forget mario typing! Although Sega had Typing of The Dead, but that was a dern good game. If only schools would pick it up for their typing classes. Straight A's everytime.
I understand your frustration with Big N though. Having cutesy characters shoved down your through constantly is not pleasent, especially when a lot of the games suck so bad. IMO Sega has yet to make a really GOOD Sonic game since the Genesis died. But they neglect a lot of other great stuff(Nights, JSR, Street of Rage), just because Sonic is more visible, and will sell more, without as much effort.
Luckely Sony and Microsoft havent quite fallen into that yet. But who knows, in the future we might be seeing Master Chief's Musical BBQ 5.

[Skett]

On 2005-01-23 10:49, Ancient wrote:
I understand your frustration with Big N though. Having cutesy characters shoved down your through constantly is not pleasent, especially when a lot of the games suck so bad.

What are you talking about? Most Nintendo games are great. Plus, its not like all of Nintendo's franchises of "kiddy".

[Outrider]

On 2005-01-23 10:49, Ancient wrote:
Luckely Sony and Microsoft havent quite fallen into that yet. But who knows, in the future we might be seeing Master Chief's Musical BBQ 5.



Yeah, cause Sony and Microsoft are really the cream of the crop whem it comes to original and creative franchises.

By the way, Master Chief and Halo are Bungie... not really Microsoft.

[Solstis]

On 2005-01-23 20:42, Outrider wrote:


On 2005-01-23 10:49, Ancient wrote:
Luckely Sony and Microsoft havent quite fallen into that yet. But who knows, in the future we might be seeing Master Chief's Musical BBQ 5.



Yeah, cause Sony and Microsoft are really the cream of the crop whem it comes to original and creative franchises.

By the way, Master Chief and Halo are Bungie... not really Microsoft.



Microsoft's got Blinx, yo. And Sony has... Crash Bandicoot?

[ForceOfBrokenGlass]

On 2005-01-23 20:57, Solstis wrote:


On 2005-01-23 20:42, Outrider wrote:


On 2005-01-23 10:49, Ancient wrote:
Luckely Sony and Microsoft havent quite fallen into that yet. But who knows, in the future we might be seeing Master Chief's Musical BBQ 5.



Yeah, cause Sony and Microsoft are really the cream of the crop whem it comes to original and creative franchises.

By the way, Master Chief and Halo are Bungie... not really Microsoft.



Microsoft's got Blinx, yo. And Sony has... Crash Bandicoot?

Nope, last I remember Crash had a game on GBA or GBC, and I KNOW there was a Tomb Raider on GBC.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

On 2005-01-23 10:49, Ancient wrote:
Dont forget mario typing! Although Sega had Typing of The Dead, but that was a dern good game. If only schools would pick it up for their typing classes. Straight A's everytime.
I understand your frustration with Big N though. Having cutesy characters shoved down your through constantly is not pleasent, especially when a lot of the games suck so bad. IMO Sega has yet to make a really GOOD Sonic game since the Genesis died. But they neglect a lot of other great stuff(Nights, JSR, Street of Rage), just because Sonic is more visible, and will sell more, without as much effort.
Luckely Sony and Microsoft havent quite fallen into that yet. But who knows, in the future we might be seeing Master Chief's Musical BBQ 5.

New GC Legend of Zelda? Not a cutesy character. Finally? Not really. Taking the role of a lowly elf boy tasked with saving the world of Hyrule is a fun concept.

I agree with your Sega/Streets of Rage comment.
I am lucky enough to own the original. Fantastic music(even on Game Gear for part 2 http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif ).

I was thinking about this. Well, if not Mario then like you said: Master Chief, Jak/Daxter(they are the main PS mascots for now right?), Sonic, etc.

Nintendo has built a large company with the financial wherewhital to make a lot of games starring Mario or Luigi or whatever. If Bungie got to that point, they could do the same; as one example.

It just is. Accept it. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif You liked Super Smash Bros. right? A lot of people were probably skeptical of that concept for a game before its release.

That said, a lot of franchises/mascots/recurring series have games released within short amounts of time. 3 Rachet and Clank games in three years, Jak 3 already, Tom Clancy series of Rainbox Six/Ghost Recon/Splinter Cell, etc.

[Wyndham]

okay, SA2 was good, admit it.
and Link was in a Soul Cailibur game too, y'know.
Nintendo's done it worse than ANY other, and you can't use GB releases as making them not mascots.
*points to Sonic advance*
spo blergh.

[Outrider]

On 2005-01-23 23:44, ForceOfBrokenGlass wrote:


On 2005-01-23 20:57, Solstis wrote:


On 2005-01-23 20:42, Outrider wrote:


On 2005-01-23 10:49, Ancient wrote:
Luckely Sony and Microsoft havent quite fallen into that yet. But who knows, in the future we might be seeing Master Chief's Musical BBQ 5.



Yeah, cause Sony and Microsoft are really the cream of the crop whem it comes to original and creative franchises.

By the way, Master Chief and Halo are Bungie... not really Microsoft.



Microsoft's got Blinx, yo. And Sony has... Crash Bandicoot?

Nope, last I remember Crash had a game on GBA or GBC, and I KNOW there was a Tomb Raider on GBC.


Blinx is Artoon, and I don't believe they're owned by Microsoft. Heck, they made Pinobee for the GBA launch. And Crash used to be owned by Naughty Dog, the guys that were doing the Jak series, but they sold the rights to that to, um... I dunno, but it wasn't Naughty Dog that made the past few games. Tomb Raider is Eidos. None of these companies are even console exclusive, with the exception of Naughty Dog, but they're still not owned by Sony or anything.

I'm actually impressed with Naughty Dog. I never cared for the Crash series, but I've played the first Jak And Daxter game, and it was pretty good. I've also read and seen interviews with whoever their top guy is, and he really seems to understand the game design process. I figured the guys who made Crash were probably some EXTREME developers, but it seems I was wrong. This guy seems to know exactly where the industry is going, the need for innovation, and the failure of relying solely on gimmicks and technology instead of gameplay and fun factor.

[Ancient]

True Master Chief is owned by Bungie, but M$ has Bungie by the short and curleys, they are just an extention on M$. So dont expect to see Bungie games for Sony or Nintendo, unless M$ thinks its a good way to crush the competition.

[Outrider]

On 2005-01-24 09:29, Ancient wrote:
True Master Chief is owned by Bungie, but M$ has Bungie by the short and curleys, they are just an extention on M$. So dont expect to see Bungie games for Sony or Nintendo, unless M$ thinks its a good way to crush the competition.



Well, I can tell by using the dollar sign instead of an S, you must be an expert on Microsoft. [/sarcasm]

Bungie was bought by Microsoft. However, they haven't been absorbed into the generic internal development company, so they still have their teams intact, as far as I know. Obviously they won't be on other systems. My point was that Bungie has always seemed like it's a pretty creative company and still seem to be to this day. But to say that their creativity is a sign of Microsoft's isn't correct. This is still Bungie, just getting their money from a higher up.

Obviously, if anybody is more aware of Bungie's history than I am (and that shouldn't be too hard) and knows of certain moving and shaking within the company that disproves my argument, feel free to comment.

[Skett]

I don't understand how people can say Nintendo is mascot whoring. Wow, they are releasing games starring one of their most popular characters. Holy piss, that's like Disney releasing something with Mickey-freakin-Mouse.

[Ancient]

It's not complaining that Nintendo makes Mario games, its that Nintendo makes 80% of its games Mario Games. And the other 20% have Mario stuffed somewhere in there too. Why cant we get somemore brand new creative type stuff like Pimkin? Heck even Metroid, StarFox, and F-Zero are already long standing Nintendo franchises, come on, take a chance! Something NEW please!

[PrinceBrightstar]

That's right, MC goes to Bungie. Its Sarge that goes to M$...

steve balmer: developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developeers. Get up! Get up! Developers!

[Orange_Coconut]

Mario, Metroid, Fox, they've all taken leaps up the hill, and slid on their asses back down it time and time again. Metroid especially has taken a totally different route, going from a platformer to a FPS.

Each game Mario has there is something new about it, whether it be a minor or major change, there is change. And companies learn from their mistakes, their brilliant ideas, and just what their fans want. I agree that Mario Tennis, and Mario Party, and Mario Golf are ridiculous ways to sell Mario material, but I've never really played any of them anyways. They could be perfectly good games (I have played Mario Party's 1-2, and Mario Tennis on the N64 though).

Link is also a perfect example of change within gaming and Nintendo. He has been through many different styles of graphics and gameplay. Though, there's always that transition from 2D to 3D that is an auto-count.

Along the way you get characters introduced (sometimes they're good, sometimes they're just plain stupid). But Yoshi was a character based off of Mario, and one of his starring games Yoshi's Island is one of my favorite games of all time.

They tried different things with Kirby since the first game on Gameboy, Kirby's Adventure was a giant step up due to his ability to... well, take abilities from his enemies. They tried taking it up a notch in Kirby64, which I personally don't like but it's still an example.

What about Mischief Makers? I doubt many people have played that game, that was a totally strange and different-ish game. There have been no sequels, barely anyone (around here at least) has even heard of it, it pretty much flopped. But it was a new idea, trying to get in either a new series or a new idea into the gaming industry.

Same goes for Plok, Super Putty, Claymates, they were all trying as well. Bubble and Bobble have fallen off the charts since their games back on the Nintendo and Gamegear, now it's mainly just Bust-A-Move from them.

You had Wario take the stand on the gameboy after his appearance in Mario Land 2, and his style of gameplay was different (though not entirely) from Mario. And after Warioland came out, they tried some sort of element thing or something, in all honesty I never really followed the series after that.

It's all about development and new ideas. Like Luigi's Mansion. There was Luigi's time to shine in his Ghostbusteresque adventure.

There are other games, after Mario RPG, Paper Mario was introduced. Though I may not have liked that game, it definitely played differently from Mario RPG. Plus I believe Superstar Saga was supposed to be another Mario RPG-ish thing, though I personally have never played that either.

Heck, I remember when Gex had his moment in the gaming industry, and Spyro? He was a hit for maybe a year or so. There are series in other systems than Nintendo that use the same ideas over again, but people seem to focus on the Nintendo games anyways. Pity.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Orange_Coconut on 2005-01-24 16:02 ]</font>

[Outrider]

While I also wouldn't mind more new franchises (Pikmin being pretty much the sole example at the moment), one of Nintendo's biggest perks is that everyone knows their characters. Smash Bros is one of their greatest successes recently, and is based all around their different franchises. The trophies alone are great for those of us who have been following Nintendo for years.

Fine, there are a lot of Mario games out there. Fortunately, most of them are pretty good. Throwing in the Mario license guarantees they'll sell a certain number of copies.

IGN/Nsider/whatever had an article about this not too long ago, but it didn't make much sense. They were arguing that these new party games shouldn't have Nintendo characters in them, because they should be starting new franchises. They used Donkey Konga and DK: King of Swing as examples. My question is why does it matter that Donkey Kong is in them? It's not like they're using the franchise for anything else. Meh, I don't really care for the poorly-written NSider articles anyway. [/random semi-rant]

[kazuma56]

Don't forget that mario lost game for Snes, where you played Luigi and you had to search for mario.

I wouldn't call it whoring, its not like Nintendo is going to companies pleading for them to put the stupid plummer in games.

[Ancient]

Actually Mischief Makers was made by Treasure, even though Nintendo might hold the rights. And Treasure almost NEVER makes a sequel, its one of their call signs I guess. Look for them if you like Mischief Makers so much.
Anywho, I'm not doubting that some legacies have had it good. The Link games have been great, and most true Mario games are absolute classics. All I'm saying is lets get something new. How many of these great inovations that were made on Link or Mario could have been just as good without it actually being Link or Mario? Better yet, how many great inovations to those games were left out because they simply "weren't" Link and Mario.
I like Mario, really I do. But do they really have to have him in eveything? Does every sword swinging Action/RPG have to be Link? Does every Sci/Fi game have to be Metroid? At present time retro-refitting of old games is fine, but Nintendo's had prescious little original material to go on since the days of SNES. How many generations of consoles can be supported on re-makes alone?