A conclusion of mine regarding difficulties.

[Skorpius]

I'll be short.

Ultimate mode is too easy once you pass the level of 150. Offline is too easy at level 120-130.

It always bothers me that people think the sub-Ult difficulties are easy, because they aren't. They're only easy if you slap on 4 God/HPs and a 180 POW mag and Soul Eater/Double Saber, or whatever you want. I was just playing Hard Mode soul blade with a friend. level 32 RAmarl, level 28 FOmarl, and we had a lot of fun. It was almost impossible, but it was great fun, we were even using level 200 mags, but no rare armors/units. It was a fun and exciting experience.

So, next time you think you pwn PSO because you got your character into ult at under level 50 and are dealing 1k+ damage in ult ruins and standing face to face with delbiters, then try sub-Ult without passing a ton of equip down, dont give your character 500% advantage, either. Noobs XP

And no, don't talk about C-mode. That's completely different.

[BrokenHope]

Of course ULT is easy, Sonic Team nerfed it. Dreamcast version 2 ULT was much, much harder. You were doing good if you could do 300 damage a hit, the difficulty moving from caves to mines was immense, you would go from being able to do 300 damage in caves, to hitting for 0's in mines. Techs were near useless, double digit damage with full mst and level 30 techs on a fonewearl.

The bosses were harder, falz's hand slash did 1409 damage alone. Forces could barely survive it till they reached over level 180.

But yeah, most players these days, get online and on the first day they have so much modded crap that anything is easy. Case in point I was in a game yesterday when a HUnewearl decided it would be fun to use a hacked untekkered double cannon, but this one seemed to have %'s since she was hitting everything in the room for over 1k damage.

[Cell132]

Hai, Playing in the lower levels is fun. Me and a friend used to make new characters just so we could enjoy leveling up like when we first started. We would have a race to see who could get to level 50 first, and once the race was decided, we would create new characters and do it again.

Also, it is true that ultimate is easy after level 150, but that's only because of the equipment I have. I take it off every now and then to try and keep the game fun for me. ^.^

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-02-01 01:15, Skorpius wrote:

So, next time you think you pwn PSO because you got your character into ult at under level 50 and are dealing 1k+ damage in ult ruins and standing face to face with delbiters, then try sub-Ult without passing a ton of equip down, dont give your character 500% advantage, either. Noobs XP




I'm sure we all know what levelling an untweaked character is like, unless it's someone who has never had a legit character in their life.

But yes, I know that's not the point of your post, and yes, it can be fun playing with what your character would normally have, and not tweak, for a good time.... although moreso in multiplayer than in single player.

I don't know of many who claim to "pwn" at PSO for tweaking to beat lower difficulties... perhaps you could point them out for us... I just know many (including myself) tweak characters and get them to Ult as soon as possible so that, well, they're in Ult as soon as possible. Nothing 'noobish' about it.

[Skorpius]

On 2005-02-01 01:33, BrokenHope wrote:

I think you missed the point. :/ But your post is valid anyway.

I don't know of many who claim to "pwn" at PSO for tweaking to beat lower difficulties... perhaps you could point them out for us...
Kef XP

I just know many (including myself) tweak characters and get them to Ult as soon as possible so that, well, they're in Ult as soon as possible. Nothing 'noobish' about it.
Why get to Ultimate so quickly? Ult is easy. Just play the lower difficulties without enhancing your character all too much. If you need an ID, play with some friends. :o

My point, to clarify, is that PSO is a better game if you still retain your weaknesses. And I still don;t want any C-mode posts in here. >>; I'll rant on that later.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-02-01 02:37 ]</font>

[BrokenHope]

On 2005-02-01 02:37, Skorpius wrote:


On 2005-02-01 01:33, BrokenHope wrote:

I think you missed the point. :/ But your post is valid anyway.

I don't know of many who claim to "pwn" at PSO for tweaking to beat lower difficulties... perhaps you could point them out for us...
Kef XP

I just know many (including myself) tweak characters and get them to Ult as soon as possible so that, well, they're in Ult as soon as possible. Nothing 'noobish' about it.
Why get to Ultimate so quickly? Ult is easy. Just play the lower difficulties without enhancing your character all too much. If you need an ID, play with some friends. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

My point, to clarify, is that PSO is a better game if you still retain your weaknesses. And I still don;t want any C-mode posts in here. >>; I'll rant on that later.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-02-01 02:37 ]</font>


I do get your point, that if people actually played as intended and didn't have tons of hand me downs from other characters, then the lower difficulties would actually be challanging and even fun, because you would actually have to worry about death. Unlike most who just go into a room, press A a few times and everything dies. Some people see pso as a rush to get to ult in order to rare hunt there on a different ID.

[Mixfortune]

Note, I've had my fair share of levelling up characters in the earlier difficulties without tweaking them, namely in DC. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Either way, even on GC, I have chars I specifically tweak, to play in Ult (because I just in general prefer Ult), and characters I don't tweak, and play every once in a while for something different.

I believe that's what you were referring to anyways...

As for the sake of having different IDs, some people don't have friends to play with, even online http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

EDIT- Also, Broken, when I rush chars, that doesn't mean that's all I see PSO as. Try being a bit more open minded about it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2005-02-01 02:46 ]</font>

[BrokenHope]

On 2005-02-01 02:45, Mixfortune wrote:
EDIT- Also, Broken, when I rush chars, that doesn't mean that's all I see PSO as. Try being a bit more open minded about it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2005-02-01 02:46 ]</font>


I generally suck at wording what comes into my head, so I guess I asked for that :|

I just meant, that on 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc characters most people like to skip through the earlier difficulties :/ The only sad part is that a lot of people who start to play pso and go straight to vega, end up unknowingly ruining the experience for themselves by having weapons and items that they shouldn't have at that level and don't even really work out how to play their character properly due to never having any fear of death all through normal to v hard.

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-02-01 02:57, BrokenHope wrote:
The only sad part is that a lot of people who start to play pso and go straight to vega, end up unknowingly ruining the experience for themselves by having weapons and items that they shouldn't have at that level and don't even really work out how to play their character properly due to never having any fear of death all through normal to v hard.



I will agree on this part, and if that's what you meant earlier, then it does make more sense now, heheh.

[Skorpius]

Forget about Vega. I'm takling about people who start a character and by the end of the night have them at level 80, and at level 140 in 3 days. I have a lot more fun starting a new character and beating B.hard then starting a new character over again, only because it's challenging, but easy enough. I feel like I've done more for myself and my characters and accomplished more than just 50 ruins runs.

Now, you can get into "people play differently" and that's fine, but you get those who say "Hard mode is easy" when they're rushing through it with 3 God/HPs and a decent weapon.

[Hrith]

On 2005-02-01 02:37, Skorpius wrote:
I don't know of many who claim to "pwn" at PSO for tweaking to beat lower difficulties... perhaps you could point them out for us...
Kef
I've never said that I pwn PSO, on the other hand, I pwn you.
I've never ever said that I pwn PSO, so you just made that up, nice.

And I only tweaked 4 of my 8 chars, so I know what you are talking about very well.

And PSO can still be difficult at Lv 150+, even at Lv 200, that's why there are some quests like PW#3 and #4, etc.
Heck, I died in Ruins yesterday with a Lv 193 HUcast (4 Delsabers), so I think the difficulty in PSO v3 is perfectly balanced. Besides, there's gotta be a reward for raising your chars, duh.

On v2 it sucked BIG TIME, it sucked so bad that I mostly played C-mode. It was not "harder" as some put it, it was unbalanced, period. Finding uber weapons with good % to Dark only to deal 80 to an Arlan is STUPID.

The difficulties in PSO Ep1&2 are perfect, that's why it never gets old.

[Neith]

I'll agree that v3 is pretty hard. I can't say what the dc version was like because I never played it, but some of the online quests, such as the towers and PW4 are incredibly hard. I die so much on the room with 3 Epsilons :S I think that giving a character helpful items is ok,provided they dont ruin the game, like giving a lv1 a lv200 msg, god/powers etc. TRADING between characters when you find something useful is ok though, IMO. Speaking of v3 anyway, I found Spaceship Ult to be difficult at first, I died quite a bit there. If you go after the items you want yourself, rather than using hand -downs, the game is a lot more challenging, and fun. Tweak if you want, but it makes the game too easy. Ive done it before, and I'm not doing it again.

[Nai_Calus]

Trust me, after the first time sloughing through those Government quests slowly and miserably, often solo in a timed quest you have no chance of beating because nobody will help you... Yeah, you'll never want to do that again.

And by L100, VHard is so very, very, VERY mindfuckingnumbingly easy. Ditto for Hard by L60 and Normal by 30. -_-; Dear god, ST, it ain't that much harder.

Honestly, though, raising ~Zero~ on BB I only had trouble because he's a FOmar and they ALWAYS lack for HP/DFP, right up to and including L200. XP

Whereas when I had my first HUnewearl(Zero had a slight advantage starting out in getting her hand-me-downs, but that went away once he hit hard and got where she'd been... Before, actually, due to FOmar's bad stat growth), it was like "...Yeah, OK, and?" Or hell, even on GC with my HUmar, raising my first character. Sure, I died every five seconds in Forest because I couldn't work out the timing on a combo. But then I learned how to do that, and how to not fucking die every six seconds and dodge shit, and I was in Ult by 60. Wasn't even aiming for it, I just kind of played and said "Oh, well, let's see if I can go beat Dark Falz yet."

What, you're gonna accuse me of twinking my first char? XD The one who spent his first 20 levels or so in Ult with a Gungnir and a Raygun? XP We've had this conversation before, and regardless of how lame you think I might be because I'm not afraid of the bloody game, the fact remains that it ain't that hard, ESPECIALLY offline. Even online isn't that bad.

[Tycho]

I think using bad characters is hard, not really the lower difficulties. There is nothing more challenging about sub-Ult difficulties, enemies move really slow, Mericarol spit confusion, and Lilies poison.
I raised my own mind mag to level 200 on my main character while I was still offline. This did give me an edge, but I don't think of this as playing cheap, or using items I didn't deserve (I know this is still different from getting 300+% DCs on Vega at level 1 though).

I don't mind twinking or powerlevelling, but I do it to get the characters into Ultimate. The point of this would be.. getting more IDs (so more rares), the point of it is not having a challenge, so from that point of view it would not have to matter this style of playing does not offer a challenge.


If you want a real challenge... twink your characters into harder difficulties / areas at low levels, then try to clear those areas without your twinked equipment... xP
Or just do PW4 (ya, in Ult) with an incompetitive team or solo.. then tell me whether or not you found this to be a challenge. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

And I do say Kef pwned this game. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Garm]

LVL 80 hucaseal, not twinked/tweaked/ w/e, NO units, NO weps, NO armor, NO mats, NO mag, NO traps. Beat the shit put of PW#4... it's impossible. Who said ult is easy? XD But you are right vhard seems harder than ult somehow... On ult I know that I'll lvl up an pwn them in a few lvls. When my humar was in ult at lvl 90 (*sniff* aaah good ol' days) he was missing el rappys but when he hit 100-105 the rappy were running away when they heared me coming. And indeed I hate vhard. I even died with my humar twice on PW#3 on hard twice (3 delbiters once and a delbiter, morfos and deldepth combo)

[Hrith]

Come on, get real, it's easy to make Skorpius' point seem wrong with such silly posts >_>

Skorpius said "don't give your character 500% advantage", but well, not 500% disadvantage either, duh.

[Sharkyland]

Heh make it like challenge mode. Yesterday I went with a FOnewmn lvl 87 (sdjz 23 23 22 23) and me only lvl 89 and a RAmarl lvl 120. We did ult ruins. Died left and right, but it was good fun. XD

My poor poor mag... stupid shop sell stars.

[Skorpius]

On 2005-02-01 04:56, Kef wrote:


On 2005-02-01 02:37, Skorpius wrote:
I don't know of many who claim to "pwn" at PSO for tweaking to beat lower difficulties... perhaps you could point them out for us...
Kef
I've never said that I pwn PSO, on the other hand, I pwn you.
I've never ever said that I pwn PSO, so you just made that up, nice.

And I only tweaked 4 of my 8 chars, so I know what you are talking about very well.

And PSO can still be difficult at Lv 150+, even at Lv 200, that's why there are some quests like PW#3 and #4, etc.
Heck, I died in Ruins yesterday with a Lv 193 HUcast (4 Delsabers), so I think the difficulty in PSO v3 is perfectly balanced. Besides, there's gotta be a reward for raising your chars, duh.

On v2 it sucked BIG TIME, it sucked so bad that I mostly played C-mode. It was not "harder" as some put it, it was unbalanced, period. Finding uber weapons with good % to Dark only to deal 80 to an Arlan is STUPID.

The difficulties in PSO Ep1&2 are perfect, that's why it never gets old.



It was a joke.

But, you must suck at PSO XP, I never seem to have any problems with PW3 or 4 with my characters, only my HUnewearl who has shit-tastic ATA. My RAMarl is so pointlessly easy to use, I've retired her already, and my FOmarl owns PW4 solo!!.. ;l That's pretty damn sad on PSO's part. Only problems I ever have on PSO is if I'm underleveled, with my level 89 HUmar, level 100 HUcaseal, level 110 FOnewearl, or level 90 RAcaseal in Ultimate online. Only my FOnewearl has "uber" equip but I hate FOnewearls anyway because they're boring online.


Or just do PW4 solo.. then tell me whether or not you found this to be a challenge.
It was fun.

[Sitka]

Skorpius:

This is a great game with many different components/reasons people play.

I first slogged through 100 levels with my Hucast on Dreamcast and then up into the 140's before I switched. Then I slogged through to 100 with a FOnewearl - this was all offline. It got to be repetitive and tedious after a while, so I finally quit playing.

I then played the gamecube, slogged a few characters up through and well into ultimate before I again got bored and stopped playing. All offline.

With xbox, I played my Racast up to lvl 193 (100 lvls offline) and played four more characters into the 90's before I again took a break.

None of these characters were tweaked. All of these characters "earned" their levels and items with the exception of a couple weapons/items given to me by friends from id's I didn't have.

Since I got back online, I have been playing c-mode, PW's, RT's and other quests. I also have an interest in comparing how high level forces do versus each other - or hunters - or rangers. When I raised my Satos and Ratis, I raised them 12 at a time. That tedious, slow, process gave me the right to pass on those lvl 200 mags to the new characters I wanted to take into ultimate.

When I didn't need the secret gear or brightness circle or other units that had been "earned" by my higher level characters, they were passed on to the new characters. Same with weapons, units, materials and so on.

These newer characters can now benefit by quickly passing through normal-hard-very hard and into ultimate very quickly. I much prefer playing in ultimate when I am not playing c-mode.

I have never considered myself as a pwner of Pso. Quite the opposite. I consider myself to be pretty experienced, but much less so than some of my compadres. The fact that I don't want to waste hundreds of hours slogging through normal-very hard levels with new characters should not be considered a negative for someone like yourself, but your post seems to consider it so.

Rather, each of us pays our HL fee or xbox live fee and goes online to play for our own reasons. If you want to play a lvl 1 char through normal-very hard with nothing, that's great. But, don't disparage, those of us who have played thousands of hours of normal-very hard and don't get anything out of that anymore.

Every player of PSO has a right to play the game the way they enjoy as long as they don't interfere with your right to play the way you enjoy.

That's it.

[DLShAdOw]

If your livin life after college and say your grandparents or relatives give you some money. Would you decline to take it and say "No, I want to live an "Un-Tweaked life"? I don't think so.

[Hrith]

I don't believe that anyone can solo PW#4 in Ult, whatever you char and Lv.

That is, without hacks.

[RadiantLegend]

I remember when i started for the first time with my hucsl. Getting to Ult was hell but she made it. Now all my new chars get passed down stuff and don't have to suffer like she did. >.< i should take it all back. Make them really work for it.

-_-' i take that back. They don't even use them anymore. They tossed it in the bank like its nothing. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

.....

[Neith]

This thread's gettin a bit ridiculous now, of course a lv80 with no items is gonna get pwned bad on PW4... PW4 doesnt really affect what level you are, just how good you are at avoiding multiple death-spitting mobs. I think anyone tryin it solo is asking to die really. Keeping to the point, Ultimate's only easy if you stay in the safe places. Once you venture into the Phantasmal World quests and Tower etc, the games gets a lil bit harder. Personally, I dont see what's wrong with the game being easier in places, it's fun to watch your character go from being pwned every hit, to mowing down scores of enemies.

[Skorpius]

On 2005-02-01 09:45, Kef wrote:
I don't believe that anyone can solo PW#4 in Ult, whatever you char and Lv.

That is, without hacks.


:o I'll do it again just to prove it.

[Lacronium]

There may be no point in posting, but at first, I always tried to get my characters up without tweaking but then after awhile, I begin tweaking only because I wanted to see what it's like. But, I like the challenge so I don't tweak anymore. Or you could do it like c-mode like mentioned before.

[Skorpius]

C-mode is different from the actual game. It's easier.

[kazuma56]

V2 may be unbalanced, but it is harder than GC offline can ever throw at you, unless your underleveled, by lvl 80 you can brave through most areas using equipment available to you in Ult.

Forces at lvl 120+ with S/D and J/Z at lvl 30 make enemies weak like a V-Hard ruins monsters are to other chars... and som many other stupid things that they should have at least beefed up abit, or give some enemies some tech advantages against that.

DC was hell once you got to Ult, you constantly feared death, something I haven't felt since my Ramar at lvl 110+ got a God/Battle and FS, enemies had ridiculously high DFP and HP, and Falz was actually a boss you should be afraid of.

I think they should of left v2 Ult mode in GC, but call it Hell or some other word higher than Ultimate, once going to that mode, weapons will convert to the DC stats they once were but for that mode only, becuase the challenge in PSO is to far in between now than it previously was.

[PrinceBrightstar]

Well maybe somethign has happened. I mean...RAcasts now have 51 hp to start out with in PSOBB cn

[Bladehunter]

I cannot agree on the statement of ULT being too easy at lv 120-130 on offline mode. I have a pure HUmar, first char ever since my MC corrupted and he is lv 146 and its a pain going through ruins and CCA in ult. I don't even dare to try Seabed. I also play a lot of multi mode which gives the monsters the same stats as in Online and getting half your hp taken away by a critical hit from a Sinow Spiegell is not my definition of easy...

[shingo]

well ep2 in ult mode,i think is harder than ep1 in ult. Also Ult is still hard for my ramar and is at lvl 125.

[Garm]

On 2005-02-01 08:55, Kef wrote:
Come on, get real, it's easy to make Skorpius' point seem wrong with such silly posts >_>

Skorpius said "don't give your character 500% advantage", but well, not 500% disadvantage either, duh.



Skorpius' post ain't wrong in anyway, actually I can't agree more... But I just mentioned that it is possible to have a reall really hard time in Ult.

BTW: I did my first PW4 last night. It wasn't hard but when the fo and the highest lvl RAcaseal disconnected (3 racaseals and 1 fomar) we decided whe should stop (we had like 6/7 floors done IIRC). Still only the FOmar died once (he was so persistant with his megid XP).