EP4: Episode 4

[Saffran]

Anyone in there?
As far as I can read the BBS, the game features Del Rappies. New maps and new quests coming, too.

The DL client is for later, and the game will get new maps and new quests as time progresses.

Is anyone at all interested in that game? If I get the occasion, I will purchase it.

[Nai_Calus]

In buying it? Nope. It ain't that pretty, I'm not that impressed with the weapons we saw, and no matter how much they claim to have 'changed' enemy movement/attack patterns, they'll STILL look like cheesy re-skinnings of Ep1 monsters.

And half the English players who posted here have been driven off by morons, so you're not likely to see too much about it here, either, unless some come back.

[Waylander11]

I would buy it if it was in english and my pc would work right I would like to know what the final boss is.

[Saffran]

Well, a friend of mine described me his impressions. Apparently Sega changed a lot since beta.

Lots of ennemies can't be hit with shooting weapons.
The Astarks have cure freeze equipped.
Zuu are only taking hits from blade type weapons.
The lizards turn invisible if you hit them with a shooting weapon, and from then on can only be hit with swords.
Apparently all thge drops haven't been released, but well, there are only 2 quests anyway...
He described it as "the Hu festival". (well, it was about damn time, if you ask me)

[Nai_Calus]

Yay, once again ST proves it's inability to balance the game!

"Hey, HUs suck in Tower, so let's make an area where RAs suck!"
"But then where will FOs not suck?"
"They're supposed to suck, fool! Why do you think we tried to fuck up all the tech ranges and targetting a couple of months back until the users whined and we had to change it back?"

But seriously, it sounds like a place specifically designed to make Rangers suck and be worthless. -_- I feel sorry for anyone whose main char is a RA going through it...

No thought at all, as usual.

[PJ]

What about the enemies that need to be hit with guns? What if there's a lot of them? Then if you have an even team with all 3 classes, then... yeah.

...But then what if you're in a full HU team/full RA team? Heh, it's not sounding too brilliant http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

[PrinceBrightstar]

Or worse...what if you're in solo mode?

I got the feeling those DB sabers are suddenly going to find a lot of use.

[Saffran]

>No thought at all, as usual.

I'd wager to say you are the one who don't think, as always. Besides, you haven't been on the receiving end of complaining *paying* *customers* telling you that Ra weapons were ueber. Sega did finally (at long last....) listen to the mass of peoples complaining about Spread Needle/Frozen shooter/Yas9km, and it is a DAMN GOOD THING, for a change.

Also, remember that only quests 9-1 and 9-2 are released for now (although, 9-3 as well, probably) and that new areas and monsters will be released later. There WILL be ennemies that you can't hit with blades and only with bullets, and I assume there will be ennemies like the ult morphos (i.e. extremely high def) that you can easily clear with the right special/magic.

You can solo the game, but it won't be easy, and that's fine as it is. No more Ras in their low 90s owning ult ruins and ruining them for the other players. (you can enter ep1 ult at lv 90)

[Nai_Calus]

I can fucking read, I know the level req was changed, and I'm sorry, basically disabling the primary mode of attack on almost everything in an area for a particular class is not good game balance, it's just stupid cheese to try and make the game look harder. You could argue that with Tower, but remember: A HU can still fight in Tower. With RA buddies backing him up, or even just his own pure skill, he can make it through with his normal weapons of choice. Forcing a class to try to be a ghetto something it's not is just stupid. Imagine if ST made an area where all FOs had to melee. Yeah, sure, FOmar/FOmarl would be alright, IF they could hit, but FOnewearl? lol.

RAs owning Ult Ruins at L90? ROFLMAO. Yeah, RIGHT. If anything Ult Ruins is harder on BB than on GC, and my RAmarl on GC at L120 with the unholy trio of supposed cheese can't own or ruin shit in FOREST, the hell with this crap about owning Ruins. You're just whining because Rangers get good weapons in general. Don't play in teams of three RAs, then, or learn how to freaking Rafoie tag. Don't whine about and blame a class for YOUR shortcomings. Why should people use inferior weapons just because you can't keep up? I've never had trouble with RAs in any game I've played in, so I really have no idea what it is you're doing wrong, but it's obviously something.

Sure, there are plenty of good melee weapons RAs can use. Sure, they can melee just fine. But FORCING them too is just asinine, just as FORCING a droid to find some way to 'tech' would be, or FORCING a HU to try to be a RA(Or worse, a FO to try to be a RA).

Also, your own personal whining and trouble with Rangers is not grounds for resorting to personal attacks on me. But, well, I guess you're not capable of coming up with anything better...

Cutesy gimmicks and annoyances do not make for a good game. It's why a good round of Pong still beats the shit out of most modern games.

And I suppose you've not been on the receiving end of *paying* *customers* telling you that FOs get fucking jacked without them ever doing anything about it? Well, people who are fucking morons who've never used one claim FOs are overpowered... I'll give you that yes, RAs can be powerful, but not to the point where it's necessary to disable them. Most RAs I know don't even OWN melee weapons. Nor do all of them use the Unholy Trinity.

Oh, I don't even generally USE RAs, I use a melee Force primarily and HUs... And it still annoys me, because it's stupid.

Oh, I also think how they're doing the game itself is stupid. Yeah, let's charge all our customers 40 bucks, and then make them wait for months and months to finally be able to play all of the game they paid us for!

You know, I notice that I still see an awful lot of white names in the lobbies... And now that the initial 'ONG MUST DO FIRST TWO QUESTS' is over, far more Ep1&2 games than Ep4. Heh.

[Mixfortune]

I agree with Ian on the basics of this.
Making some sort of specialized way to attack it, while disregarding what would be "acceptable" in any other PSO, which uses the same system, seems lame.

Okay, maybe "they turned invisible, so guns can't lock on" may work as an excuse, but some of the other things (guns just flat out don't work, but melee does) sounds like something that wouldn't fit even PSO's set universal laws.

Doing something like "all guns whatsoever don't work" is just an easy way out of a balance issue. They could work more at coming up with better ideas for balance, and it'd be a lot more acceptable while still serving it's basic purpose. Even something like "guns suffer a penalty against this enemy" or "bladed weapons get a bonus against this enemy" would make more sense than "doesn't work at all".

Basically, ST had the concept, but it seems like they were too lazy with it.

[Saffran]

Heh.

>I can fucking read, I know the level req was changed,

I'm not only talking to you here. I wanted to prevent posts basically saying "Liar, you can't enter ultimate before lv 100".


and I'm sorry, basically disabling the primary mode of attack on almost everything in an area for a particular class is not good game balance, it's just stupid cheese to try and make the game look harder.
You have to think of the game as a whole. If you could own the whole game with only one special weapon, then the game wouldn't be balanced either. I think it's great that they included areas where you'd need not only a team with different types of chars, but also several types of weapons per char.

>Imagine if ST made an area where all FOs had to melee.
>Yeah, sure, FOmar/FOmarl would be alright, IF they could hit, but FOnewearl? lol.
They would be pretty stupid if they did that. The thing is, they didn't do that. So I won't comment further on it.

>RAs owning Ult Ruins at L90? ROFLMAO. Yeah, RIGHT.
Look around a bit better then. I've heard a lot of RA (mostly Ramarls, mind you) telling me they leveled soloing Mop Up 4 in Ult. That one of them just gloats around, I could imagine, but 20? not likely.


If anything Ult Ruins is harder on BB than on GC, and my RAmarl on GC at L120 with the unholy trio of supposed cheese can't own or ruin shit in FOREST, the hell with this crap about owning Ruins.
I guess all the Ras I met are half gods at this game, then. -_-

>You're just whining because Rangers get good weapons in general.
I'm not whining and I don't give a fuck about Rangers, or I'd be playing one. My Ramarl on BB has less than a minute play time.

>Don't whine about and blame a class for YOUR shortcomings.
Why should I have shortcomings? If anything, Rangers must have some, or they would get different weapons. I meet some now and then that carry a wide assortiment of weapons, but they're getting rare.


Sure, there are plenty of good melee weapons RAs can use. Sure, they can melee just fine. But FORCING them too is just asinine, just as FORCING a droid to find some way to 'tech' would be, or FORCING a HU to try to be a RA(Or worse, a FO to try to be a RA).
As far as I can see, the game provides enough kind of weapons to allow all of these combinations. But these are only needed when you're absolutely intent on soloing. Take a party with at least one Hu, one Ra and one Fo and you can face anything. It doesn't (shouldn't) matter what the game throws at you.


Also, your own personal whining and trouble with Rangers is not grounds for resorting to personal attacks on me. But, well, I guess you're not capable of coming up with anything better...
Don't get insulting.
I've seen you piss and moan about every thing in this game. You can rant on ends how much the game sucks, and how brilliant you are with Fos, and how the game is unbalanced anyways, and so on and so forth etc. I knew you'd be among the first ones to bitch about the new features, and you haven't even tried them yet.
I don't attack you for some imaginary problem with Ras. I'm attacking you because as always, you criticize (and I don't mean constructive criticism), and you're in no position to do so, since you haven't played the game nor worked on it. (I didn't either, but you don't see me belitteling ST blindly for about every detail in the game).
I also don't like all the things you're assuming I do and your blaming me for it - kind of a sensitive subject to me.

>And I suppose you've not been on the receiving end of *paying* *customers* telling you
>that FOs get fucking jacked without them ever doing anything about it?

I don't understand that sentence.
If you mean people complain that Fos get the low end of the stick, well, support magics mean certain exp gain (if lower).
If you mean people complain Fos are too strong, well... FOs are strong, but not to the point where they can easily solo any given level. They can, but it's a hassle.

>Well, people who are fucking morons who've never used one claim FOs are overpowered...
And in which category do I belong?
If you don't know the answer to that question, then refrain from making such bordering comments. And you full well know what I mean, too.

>Most RAs I know don't even OWN melee weapons.
Aah, there we have it: poor playing skills. Thank you for conceiding.


Oh, I also think how they're doing the game itself is stupid. Yeah, let's charge all our customers 40 bucks, and then make them wait for months and months to finally be able to play all of the game they paid us for!
I don't see how one can call that stupid. It's bad, of course, I'm not going to argue that. I think it tells tales about their finacial status.


You know, I notice that I still see an awful lot of white names in the lobbies... And now that the initial 'ONG MUST DO FIRST TWO QUESTS' is over, far more Ep1&2 games than Ep4. Heh.

Why "heh."? Why are YOU saying "heh."? What does this snickering do here? Are you in any position to be allowed to do so?

Honestly...

[EJ]

On 2005-02-05 18:11, Ian-KunX wrote:

And I suppose you've not been on the receiving end of *paying* *customers* telling you that FOs get fucking jacked without them ever doing anything about it?



Ian mean FOs don't get many good weps except for a few like Ray, Pwand, and rainbow baton. There are more weps but not many are that good for melee. Just for techs. But even the one that have tech boost aren't that great unless you are a newman FOs. They should have made some weps that only FOmar/ls can only use. But that just me wishing. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

[Para]

Hmm...

I guess this anti range monster is ok as long as its logical. Like maybe the monster has some kind of shell or carapace which can block bullets (like how evade would work on characters and their block animation) that would've been a good idea. Going transparent sounds like easy way out.

Funny enough, this balance act by SEGA not only hurts rangers but FOs who claim to be strong with their holy rays and other FO usable weapons. Then again FOs were never meant to melee or rely on their ATP and ATA.

Zuu only taking hits from blade type weapons sounds absurd and physically inaccurate unless SEGA gave it some kind of wind shield which blows away bullets or something.

Again, my point is that if SEGA is going to do these types of balances, they should make it look somewhat realistic to a degree.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2005-02-07 06:33, Nites wrote:

Funny enough, this balance act by SEGA not only hurts rangers but FOs who claim to be strong with their holy rays and other FO usable weapons. Then again FOs were never meant to melee or rely on their ATP and ATA.



I'm sorry, but you've just surpassed Saffran for ignorance.

One: Only fucking MORONS play ranged FOs(YES, Mechgun and Holy Ray-Only FOmars, this DOES mean you). You don't understand what 'melee' is, do you? Sorry, but disabling ranged weapons doesn't do shit to an S-Rank Twin or a Soul Banish.

Two: Oh? Really? Gee, I wonder why ST gave the FOmar and FOmarl so much ATP then... Hmm, maybe so they could USE it! Hey, only two of the FOs get enough ATP for Soul Banish, why the hell let them use it, then? Hmm, maybe so they can USE IT? Madam's Umbrella? S-Rank Scythe? S-Rank Twin? Plantain Huge Fan? Hmm? No answer? That's because there isn't a way to justify your statement here. Hey, guess what, human FOs even do more damage with weapons than with techs!

And Saffran: *yawn* I don't need to play something to know that it's a lazy, stupid idea.

And ROFL, you're trying to insult me and failing. I said I KNEW people who don't own melee weapons for their RAs, dear, not that I don't myself. "Poor playing skills"? ROFLMAO. I have a RAcast on BB. One of his main every day weapons is a Monkey King Bar. He frequently uses a Charge Berdys. None of it's difficult because of RA ATA cheese. But I guess all those people who see no logical reason to not play their class as a member of their class are stupid? Um, sorry, dear, but they're not, any more than a teching FO is(Though there are distinct advantages for human FOs in meleeing). Wanting to use your class for what it was intended for and not caring to do other types of playing does not mean you have poor playing skills. Ass. I know people who cannot stand to use Hunters, and have only RAs and teching FOs. Do they have poor playing skills for not bothering to keep weapons for doing something they have no interest in or like of doing? Hell fuck no. But it's nice that you think they do. Hey, maybe you should TRY your RA before you complain about them. And I didn't 'conciede' anything(It's concede, by the way), dear. But you can keep trying to think that, sure, go ahead.

I guess I'm stupid because I might want to actually use my RAcast as a Ranger instead of pretending I'm a HU? Sure, RAcast is the one to do it with, since he has better ATP and ATA than HUcaseal, but please. It's just retarded, and even if you compensate by going melee for the stage, you're still going to run into people who are just going to want HUs and FOs for that stage.

Indeed, what sets this apart from melee FOing is that, besides it not being voluntary, it prohibits the main function of a class - When I melee with my FOmar, my techs don't go away, nor my ability to use them. I support first, and then melee, and if I want or need to use a damage tech, then I sure as hell can and will. I'm still a FO under the POW/DEX Rati and the weapons. Just plain disabling weapon types? No. Stupid, lazy and badly thought out. There are much better ways of creating 'balance' than cheesy, stupid tricks. Like what EJ said about having them take reduced damage from guns and increased damage from blades. That makes sense. That's a reasonable form of balance that does not completely disable a play type. But hey! It would take more than two seconds to code, so nope, let's do stupid cheap BS.

And I'd say your 20 RAs are full of shit, or neglecting to mention/lying that they did their Mop-Up 4s with a full team(Just the fact that they're claiming Mop-Up 4 makes me snicker, I've only seen THAT cleared in time with a full HU/HU/RA/FO team in which half the team was over L160)... I know personally what I've been able to do with my RAmarl, using the 'Unholy Trinity', and you know what? RAs owning Ult Ruins at L90 is utter, pure bullshit. Offline, maybe, sure. Online? Pfft. Snork. Sure, with Red Ring and that nice cute L1304 black Andhaka, of course you can own Ult Ruins solo! Even if they're not cheating, they're sure as hell twinking like mad, and twinked chars aren't a good comparison for things. -_- It's like saying "L40 FOnewearl can do 700 damage with Foie the instant she gets to Ult Offline!" Well, yeah, she can, but that neglects to mention her Foie Merge, her Club of Laconium, her L25 Foie or her high MIND Mag and the mats she ate all handed down from her rich uncles and aunts.

Sorry, my experience with exactly the same kind of weapons, on the same class, at the same levels, tells me that it's bullshit.

Oh, and you contradict yourself. You think it's a good idea that they've made an area where RAs have to melee, but you think an area where FOs would have to melee is stupid? Please. At least be consistent. But I guess your bias won't allow that?

Also, you bitch at me for judging before the entire game is out and I've played it, but you say they "didn't" make an area where FOs have to melee. Oh? You know this how? You've played through the entire game? Wait, you don't. Wait, you haven't. Heh.

And you haven't played it to defend it, either, but it's cute to see you fall over yourself to protect the dignity and honour of the glorious faultless ST! Sorry, but I'm going to be cynical about ST. Yeah, remember the tech range modification that got taken back a week later because it completely fucked over FOs and even HUs and RAs? No thought there, either. Hey, let's release Plus! ...And not do a damn thing to fix any of GC's problems! ST has a track record of dismal failure at getting anything right, so if people are reporting something and it sounds bad... Yeah, it probably is.

And I'm 'heh'ing, because it's a sign that even the JP players aren't all buying into the BS. Quite amusing when you consider it.

Ahh, ST, keep it up, you amuse me so with your ridiculous antics.

And I get pissy because, believe it or not, I love PSO. And it hurts and angers me to see them cop out and cheese out time and time again. They could do so many great things with PSO... And they don't.

[Saffran]

It's not my place to comment on your moronic attitude towards Nites, so I'll leave that to him.

>And ROFL, you're trying to insult me and failing. I said I KNEW people who don't own melee weapons for their RAs, dear, not that I don't myself.

I didn't say YOU had a RA to begin with, DEAR. "I can damn fucking read", or so you said a few posts earlier? Well, you've just proved you couldn't.

>"Poor playing skills"? ROFLMAO.
Yes, POOR PLAYING SKILLS. Not specifically YOU, but any player that only takes one kind of weapon on him. It's like the Fos that try to Megid their way out of a frigging Lily room - or out of ep1 as a whole for that matter.
You have to adapt to the ennemies. Just as you start using another magic on a monster that is immune to (example) foie, you have to change your weapons once in a while, too.

What YOU do or have DOESN'T MATTER, I'm talking about RA and RA players in general. Being the PSO whore you are, of course YOU can come up with any of YOUR characters that just proves any possible case wrong. I konw that. I'm not talking about you.

>But I guess all those people who see no logical reason to not play their class as a member of their class are stupid?

They can only be considered stupid if they can't get out of those set frames even when they are forced to.

>Do they have poor playing skills for not bothering to keep weapons for doing something they have no interest in or like of doing? Hell fuck no.

Hell fuck YES.

>And I didn't 'conciede' anything(It's concede, by the way), dear.

Well, DEAR, some people on this planet happen to use other languages, and have to learn English at some later point in their lives. I know full well it's "to concede", but you know what? I make mistakes sometimes. I was thinking about the word "to forfeit" and dismissed it as being inadequate but still mixed up both spellings (with a typo to boot). SHIT HAPPENS.

>I guess I'm stupid because I might want to actually use my RAcast as a Ranger instead of pretending I'm a HU?

No, you're stupid because of your arrogant, moronic attitude towards anyone that doesn't share your views.

>Just plain disabling weapon types? No. Stupid, lazy and badly thought out.

Well, on that regard, someone else told me that this rule (no projectile weapon can hit certain ennemies) apply only if you are more than less facing them. You can still shoot them from their sides and from behind.

>And I'd say your 20 RAs are full of shit,

I have accompanied one through one of those runs (lv 106, he had been doing that for a while already). He was chatting with me all along because I collected the time boni, so he coudl more or less take his time, but I didn't attack once.
Of course, he has a sickly tweaked Ramarl, but actually it's nothing out of the ordinary. If you're going to give hand-me-downs to a char to push it blindingly fast through the levels, you can't be a sissy about it.

>(Just the fact that they're claiming Mop-Up 4 makes me snicker, I've only seen THAT
>cleared in time with a full HU/HU/RA/FO team in which half the team was over L160)

Oh please. I'm not talking about players that take the game as it comes.


It's like saying "L40 FOnewearl can do 700 damage with Foie the instant she gets to Ult Offline!" Well, yeah, she can, but that neglects to mention her Foie Merge, her Club of Laconium, her L25 Foie or her high MIND Mag and the mats she ate all handed down from her rich uncles and aunts.


Which is precisely the point of hand-me-down items. So don't tell me the above with mop up 4 is impossible.

>Oh, and you contradict yourself. You think it's a good idea that they've made an area
>where RAs have to melee, but you think an area where FOs would have to melee is stupid?

Yes. I know from my own experience that a Fonewearl can't melee - I'm even tempted to add "period." but I know you can prove me wrong on that one. But Ras can melee.

>Please. At least be consistent. But I guess your bias won't allow that?
I only have 2 bias:
The unholy trinity weapons are bad
you are a moron (you've proved it time and time gain, so I believe you)

It makes it hard to try and stay into the realms of "discussing" and "arguementing".

>Also, you bitch at me for judging before the entire game is out and I've played it,
>but you say they "didn't" make an area where FOs have to melee. Oh? You know this how?

Because someone described me the ONLY 2 AREAS EXISTING SO FAR, SMART ASS.

>And you haven't played it to defend it, either, but it's cute to see you fall over yourself
>to protect the dignity and honour of the glorious faultless ST!

I never said ST was faultless, and I didn't glorify them. "I can damn fucking read" MY ASS.

>Yeah, remember the tech range modification that got taken back a week later because it completely fucked over FOs and even HUs and RAs? No thought there, either.

Probably. I didn't play a magic wielding char when that happened, so I dunno. A lot of poeple complained about it on the BBS though.

>ST has a track record of dismal failure at getting anything right, so if people
>are reporting something and it sounds bad... Yeah, it probably is.

Well, it doesn't sound all that bad to MY ears.

>And I'm 'heh'ing, because it's a sign that even the JP players aren't all buying into the BS. Quite amusing when you consider it.

"Amusing" isn't really the word.

>Ahh, ST, keep it up, you amuse me so with your ridiculous antics.

And of course you don't realise how such sentences of yours sound...

>And I get pissy because, believe it or not, I love PSO.

No? Really? You only have over-analysed each and every aspect of that game in most of its incarnations so far... Who would have thought that you actually *gasp* LIKED THE GAME???


>And it hurts and angers me to see them cop out and cheese out time and time again.
>They could do so many great things with PSO... And they don't.

Then DO something. Complain to them, there are forms for this (I'm sure you can read if you take the time and effort), post them several times a day and each and every day for years on end if you must. Lamenting yourself on your chair and belitteling them on some community boards do not prove your ideas would be better then theirs, and it sure as hell isn't captivating their attention.

[Skorpius]

Forces now have an excuse to tech, unlike before.

Stfu now. All got owned.

[Para]

Hmm

If FOmars and FOmarls were to rely on their ATP and ATA as you seem to emphasize, I might as well call them HUmars and HUmarls.

Just because they have their ATP and ATA higher than the other two FOs does not mean they need to rely on it. It indeed increases the possibly of using weapons but it does not conclude they have to.

Put it this way around, HUmars have techs, but those techs are for support while wielding weapons is their primary offense.

FOmars can use some good weapons but those weapons are for support while casting techs is their primary offense.

There's nothing wrong playing a ranged FO. Its better than going melee with monsters that have 1 hit ko attacks. You haven't justified why it is moronic to play a ranged FO. In fact, playing a ranged FO is generally a smarter idea because you distance yourself from monsters so they can't hit you. FOs with their low HP cannot tank much damage compared to any other class. So to avoid being trapped by monsters, playing ranged is a smarter and safer option rather than risk your life.

On the topic of effectiveness between wielding weapon versus tech. Techniques by far, deal more damage versus groups of monsters compared to weapons and fighting monster 1 by 1 (yes you can group them together but that takes time and some monsters are stationary (like lilies) Techniques also have greater range. Now this could be arguable in the point if it comes down to some bosses and versus 1 monster. Grants may prove useful but not necessarily you will dish out damage at faster rates. (Eg. Vol Opt 2nd form) Or consider De Rol Le. Techniques are severely a lot more advantagous compared to weapons.

Arguably, Techniques are generally a better primary offensive for FOs but with weapon support, it will be better.

Now inspite of all this, does this mean FOs are superior compared to HUnters? Not necessarily, my point being here is that FOs are more effective with techniques as HUnters are effective at melee and RAngers are effective at ranged weaponary.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nites on 2005-02-07 15:11 ]</font>

[Sitka]

Wowser.

Vituperative prose.

My level 199 Racast does not pwn PW4 or Seabeds or Respective Tomorrow - not even close.

I can get through TTF, I have tried and failed to get through RT without dropping a scape and I always have a challenge venturing into lower seabeds. I consider myself to be a good player, but I would hardly call myself a great player.

Given that, my Racast took a LONG time to develop properly and even with great weapons, I still find areas solo difficult - with a great team, it's quite enjoyable. I prefer to play my rangers as shooters, not as melee folks even though I do own s-rank twin, monkey king bar and such.

Given that, it's dismaying to see the Ranger class dumbed down as it appears might be the case. Too bad. I enjoy playing forces and hunters, but I really enjoy playing the Racast - just suits me I guess.

Hopefully there will be enough new positives to make up for some of the negatives.

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-02-07 11:16, Saffran wrote:

>Just plain disabling weapon types? No. Stupid, lazy and badly thought out.

Well, on that regard, someone else told me that this rule (no projectile weapon can hit certain ennemies) apply only if you are more than less facing them. You can still shoot them from their sides and from behind.



If this is the case, it's not as bad. It's a limit on the defensive system, rather than nullification. That was the point earlier, about how Ian agreed when I said about how there could be damage penalties from guns or damage bonuses from melee weapons.

This whole thing has turned into an argument about the NULLIFICATION. Well, if it's not a null, then it's not an issue. The issue lies in whether or not it's a null.

-

Nites, did you not see where Ian mentioned that with Fomar/Fomarl, you can support, then melee and/or tech cast? It's a mix. You use melee where melee works, and use techs where techs work. Just because they can use their ATP doesn't necessarily mean they're abandoning their techs.

Yes folks, it IS possible to switch between tech and melee! Who'd have thought?

EDIT: Adding this, yes techs can catch more enemies, but some areas have enemies with completely different resistances, whereas melee can more often be used as a catch-all damage wise.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2005-02-07 16:33 ]</font>

[EJ]

I for one prefer to be a range FO in almost every situation because since my low HP I still don't feel comfortable to melee close up especially in CCA and Seabed. The only place I feel that I won't get OHK is only in temple, spaceship, forest, caves, and mines. But since I usually play PW2&3 with the people on BB I will mostly use my Ray, LK/30hit, Inferno, and maybe soul eater. I really have no problem hiting with mech but I also don't call myself a melee force but a range force.

But I can't really comment on EP4 since I haven't played it so it may be shit or it may be actually good. I really don't know.

[Para]

That is true that you can switch between tech and melee but the main issue still remains that FOs are generally weaker and not as built for melee as well as other classes. You still risk being hit and losing attack time versus to casting techs from a distance and knocking out a few enemies first.

However my main point is that FOs are more useful in using their techniques but having weapon support just makes it better.

Besides you aren't going to melee much if you have your experience points on the line as well.

Oh and EJ I would disagree partially on the part on mines since in ult mines, gilchichs don't get knocked down easily. Then again in this situation, using techs is where it helps.

[darkholemind]

The way I see it this is largely a null issue. If ST nulled any of the monsters at all that's poor game balancing. If they reduced the damaged that's much more sensible as stated above. What I cannot agree with is the argument that a certain class has to do anything. ST made the characters the way they were in order to be played as they were intended for. But since we have character customization we don't have to play by anybodies rules but our own. My FOney has around 1,300 mst but a base line of 400 atp. Now I realize the person above knows that FOnewearls can't melee (and even if they can no higher than V.hard) but saying that a FOmar should be made to melee is the same as saying a FOnewearl should or a RAcaseal (which mine is a meleer) or a RAmarl should. It's when you start saying we should have to do anything that is bullshit. Making a FOnewearl melee doesn't mean I'm a good player, it means I'm a walking fuckin' corpse. I can understand the reduction of damage, but not saying "guns won't work and swords will." That's utter bullshit. And I've never seen ANY experienced hunter carry only one wepon. I personally carry 12 or so on mine. So that argument about RA's and HU's carrying only one wepon is bullshit. I might understand if they had an extremely rare wepon that was legit that they were extremely proud of being there only wepon. But as I said HU's especially know this is stupid. FOmars I can't speak for, but my FOmarl also carries a more than one wepon. To reiterate Ian stupid, lazy, and completely worthless.

[kazuma56]

As a RAmar player myself, I think that doing 0 dmg to an enemy is stupid, like said by everyone else, I wouldn't mind if the dubbed down the dmg on that certain enemy when ranging but to deal a 0 is ridiculous.

Granted I am a melee/Range Ramar player but having to be forced to melee against an enemy which could possibly 1 hit K.O or deal some sort of cheap death is stupid, if the whole sides thing is true, then that is okay, but to completely nullify a classes strong point is unbalanced, period. You could argue that they unbalanced the game because Hu's suck in tower but it's not like they are nullified there, they can damage the enemies and using skill, can get through it the same as a Ra/Fo but maybe taking a bit more time to finish it.

If I get BB I better see some sort of balance in this, or else the game has become unbalanced regardless of what ppl say.

[Nai_Calus]

Nites, you've proved that you should shut up, as you have no idea what you're talking about. >_>;

Human FOs possess the worst and second worst ATA in the game, their ATA isn't 'better'.

Also, just because you're too stupid to use a multi-hitting weapon with a FO doesn't mean other people are. Gathering them up and taking them one on one? ROFLMAO! Hello, it's called a Soul Banish/Madam's Umbrella/Plantain Huge Fan/Rainbow Baton/Red Slicer/etc. >_>

And again, nothing about being a melee FO prevents you from using techs. Support first, melee second and if a damage tech is appropriate, use the fucking thing! Gizonde the hell out of Sil Bob, knock those Canadines out of the sky, etc.

And I never carry fewer than three weapons. Ever. Zero has his Banish, S-Rank Twin and Holy Ray on him at all times, with S/D/J/Z/R/A and the damage techs he uses most often shortcutted. HUmar has his Soul Eater, Double Saber and Lockgun. RAcast has his Final Impact, Justy and Monkey King Bar. Sometimes I'll bring a Slicer, too, for fun, on all three.

And WTF, PSO isn't that goddamned hard that you're going to be OHKO by everything. And I really don't give a shit about experience. If I die, so bloody be it. L200 is not a goal of mine. Having fun while I play is. I never said that anybody HAD to melee, so I really don't know where you got it from. The fact of the matter is that a FOmar/marl WILL do more damage with weapons than with techs, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to melee. Just as long as you're not spamming 200 damage Gizonde 8 times a second damage cancelling all over the hell and gone. -_-;

Ranged FOing? Yeah, hi. Other than using a Slicer there are no MULTI-TARGET ranged weapons a FO can use. You are limited to gather and shoot. Stupid. Honestly, if you're too much of a coward to fight something face to face, why even bother with weapons? Just spam your techs like the newmans...

This is getting hideously offtopic, though, so that's all I'm going to say about that.

[Para]

Human FOs possess the worst and second worst ATA in the game, their ATA isn't 'better'.

Also, just because you're too stupid to use a multi-hitting weapon with a FO doesn't mean other people are. Gathering them up and taking them one on one? ROFLMAO! Hello, it's called a Soul Banish/Madam's Umbrella/Plantain Huge Fan/Rainbow Baton/Red Slicer/etc. >_>

If they possess such a crappy ATA then why even bother trying to attack monsters if the possibility of hitting monsters are low? And because of that fact, it means that there is a higher chance for the monsters to hit you and land some shots on you, thus risking your life to a needless death. The one main benefactor that makes RAngers strong is their ability to keep monsters at bay by landing shots on them. If Human FOs as you said possess such a low ATA then their chance of hitting a monster is generally lower thus higher chance of getting nailed by a monster.

[dude3282]

Wait a second, this is just a game, right? One that hasn't even been released yet, correct? We're arguing over the hearsay that's floated in on a game that we haven't seen or played?

Just checking.

[Skorpius]

If they possess such a crappy ATA then why even bother trying to attack monsters if the possibility of hitting monsters are low?
Because we can.

[Para]

However not as effective.

[PrinceBrightstar]

Well spoken dude. I'd like to ask the moderators that any more fighting within Episode 4 threads be stopped until we've actually had a chance to really analyze what is going on. We'll have our answers soon enough.

[dude3282]

Yeah, just trying to help people see how insanely AOL-ish some of their arguments can be. We all do it, from time to time.

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-02-07 19:17, dude3282 wrote:
Yeah, just trying to help people see how insanely AOL-ish some of their arguments can be. We all do it, from time to time.



Hi, welcome to a forum.

As long as things stay within rules, the conversation/argument/discussion, whatever you want to call it can go on.
I do see there are some random flames being thrown about on occasion, but the 'argument' itself isn't breaking anything, unless some consider it off topic.

[KveerRaven]

Alright, I think a moderator needs to lock this thread. I've read all the posts, went over every discussion and it went from a valid informational topic to bashing others opinions and ultimately, each other.

So here's hoping the thread is locked, no offense to anyone, but grow up, get a life, and enjoy it. Its just a game. If you don't like it, don't play it. If you don't like the hard work, endless hours spent gathering data, surveying, testing, and ideas spent to better PSO for people who actually DO understand what goes on when it comes to making a game and can appreciate it, then don't buy the game and stick to PSO Ep 1&2. Simple as that. Where's Dhylec when you need him.....*sigh*

[Omega_Nova]

Ranged FOing? Yeah, hi. Other than using a Slicer there are no MULTI-TARGET ranged weapons a FO can use. You are limited to gather and shoot. Stupid. Honestly, if you're too much of a coward to fight something face to face, why even bother with weapons? Just spam your techs like the newmans...

http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1940

Shot
Inferno Bazooka
Rocket Punch

http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1941

Shot
Inferno Bazooka
Rocket Punch

http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1946

Shot
Inferno Bazooka
Rocket Punch

Thats all I want to say.

[Sitka]

Uh...Omega...

Have you ever tried using the Inferno Bazooka or the Rocket Punch?

I have ... I sure didn't like them.

And I could be wrong, but I can't remember those weps multi-targeting.

[Omega_Nova]

Never used them so I'm assuming that the fact that they are multi-target because of the animation of shot.

[Sitka]

I'm trying to remember - but I think they only multi-target if you can get all the beasties to politely line up single file and wait for you to successfully complete the animation required to launch the attack.

I must suck, because when I tried to do that, they pwnd me completely.

[EJ]

Inferno hit just one enemy and there aren't any guns that multi-target for a force that I can think of right now.

[darkholemind]

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Yes no other wepons than slicers have a multihit for FO's.......but the FOmarl's animation on the Inferno Bazooka is insanely fast, and with a nice bit of hit% can make an extremely valuable wepon where the FOmarl takes a fall in other wepon animations............like every animation.