EP4: The new areas- updates

[Tancient]

Other than what was seen in the video and in pictures, they've added a bunch of new features in the underground desert, so bring your antiparalysis!

The enemies warp around easily, making mechgun attacks usually hit only 1/3 of the time.

There are a BUNCH of rooms which have an effect similar to the poison rooms in spaceship, the hot sand will burn your feet and drain your health!

The bees are now able to be destroyed, yet...the bees themselves can also now paralyze you! And there are lots of paralysis traps, and many well placed ones right as you're surrounded by enemies!

Of, and if you're Japanese illiterate, you're going to hate 9-6. One hint: Heaven.


I'll update info as I play, so keep an eye out!




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tancient on 2005-03-10 09:44 ]</font>

[Tycho]

Guld Milla got pwned? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif
But I hope they'll add more Tower-ish enemies to EP4 as well. That would make the stages challenging, phasing enemies and paralysis do not... :

[Tancient]

What do you mean by towerish enemies?

[Alighieri]

I guess it means enemies found in East/West Tower quests.

[Skorpius]

On 2005-03-10 02:29, Tycho wrote:
But I hope they'll add more Tower-ish enemies to EP4 as well. That would make the stages challenging, phasing enemies and paralysis do not... :

Phasing enemies and Paralysis isn't "challenging", but instant kill is? Ever fight a room of Deldepths in Very Hard mode with a Very Hard mode level character? :L

[Tycho]

On 2005-03-10 03:45, Skorpius wrote:


On 2005-03-10 02:29, Tycho wrote:
But I hope they'll add more Tower-ish enemies to EP4 as well. That would make the stages challenging, phasing enemies and paralysis do not... :

Phasing enemies and Paralysis isn't "challenging", but instant kill is? Ever fight a room of Deldepths in Very Hard mode with a Very Hard mode level character? :L



I'm talking about way-too-high level characters in Ultimate. I know every area can be a pain, given that your level is way too low.

[PrinceBrightstar]

was the boss activated?

[Skorpius]

On 2005-03-10 04:00, Tycho wrote:
I'm talking about way-too-high level characters in Ultimate.
I'm talking about phasing. That can get quite annoying, with the added addition of being para'ed often. ;/

[Para]

i doubt the boss was activated but
honestly 1 hit kill monsters defeats the point of challenging... it just makes the battle ridiculous.

status changes and stuff definitely make a battle more gruelling and interesting.

im glad sega took this approach for ep4.

[Tycho]

Well. Anti pwns status changes, there is no challenge to that. Against one-hit-kill moves you'll be forced to almost actually try hard. It doesn't necessarily make the fighting ridiculously hard or anything.

[Para]

but anti takes up time and delay.
you think its so easy to anti but when you are getting hit in the heat of battle its really hard.

[Lone_Wolf_Nasca]

Erm, you do realize that if you are paralyzed Anti is the one that gets "owned", no ? Unless of course, you are playing in a team... >.>

In any case, I believe Sacred Cloth (Level 144 requirement to equip) grants immunity to Paralyzis. It should be more that enough if you are getting afflicted too often with the status change, however, Sacred Cloth is not to great on the DEF and EVA values. Might be too risky to switch to sacrifice both of these in a high damage area like Ep.4 :/

[Para]

what i would like to see more is confuse. definitely a deadly status in the heat of battle.

[Tancient]

Considering that the dark type enemies warp around, and not just randomly, but strategically (Knock you down, you get up and try to hit them, just as you start your animation, they've moved behind ou or to the side, and SMACK!)


Just imagine if there was 5 Ill gills, no fences to hide behind, and the ill gills had the reach of a belra when it shot its arm. Yum, ep4.

[Hrith]

On 2005-03-10 07:20, Nites wrote:
but anti takes up time and delay.
you think its so easy to anti but when you are getting hit in the heat of battle its really hard.One-hit kill attacks and Megid are still more painful, Ep4 is easier than Ep2, period.

Sacred Cloth is not rare, nor are cure units.

Phasing is not so annoying, Tancient said it made mechguns useless, so what, I dislike most mechguns to begin with, I'd rather use a Bringer's Rifle or Frozen Shooter.

Ep2 is way more challenging, whether or not you like the way ST did Ep2 or Ep4 is up to you.
I have yet to see monsters as tough as Baranz, Delbiter, Ill Gill, Mericus, Merikle, Mericarol, Gi Gue, Gibbles, Epsilon, Sinow Zele, Deldepth, Morfos, Del Lily, and some others.

ST might release quests with uber crowded rooms that would make Ep4 painful, but what I have seen so far, my chars would breeze through.

[Tancient]

Actually....I think confuse would be awesome for HUs in this area. Based on the way that the enemies warp around, if you're fighting 2 or more, it might be beneficial to be able to switch directions mid combo. XD (Not having control over it, so there would be some chance involved)

And I've been using my RAmar, and going in and out of the room with the door trick to get by...lvl 89 on VHard. Except I guess I went too far into one room, as suddenly the golan deto warped right in front of the door, and I couldn't escape.

Needless to say, I then quickly got swarmed by the meri's ice and the other golans attacks.

[Cynric]

On 2005-03-10 08:34, Kef wrote:
One-hit kill attacks and Megid are still more painful, Ep4 is easier than Ep2, period.
Cheap =/= hard.



On 2005-03-10 08:34, Kef wrote:
Phasing is not so annoying, Tancient said it made mechguns useless, so what, I dislike most mechguns to begin with, I'd rather use a Bringer's Rifle or Frozen Shooter.
FS and Demon's hardly work on Golans [i]because] of their warping. Belive me, I tried, it works 20% of the time.



On 2005-03-10 08:34, Kef wrote:
Ep2 is way more challenging, whether or not you like the way ST did Ep2 or Ep4 is up to you.
I have yet to see monsters as tough as Baranz, Delbiter, Ill Gill, Mericus, Merikle, Mericarol, Gi Gue, Gibbles, Epsilon, Sinow Zele, Deldepth, Morfos, Del Lily, and some others.
Ep4 enemies legitamitely own you because of great abilities and AI. Just because something deals 1200 fixed damage or casts insta-death means that it's cheap, not hard.



On 2005-03-10 08:34, Kef wrote:
ST might release quests with uber crowded rooms that would make Ep4 painful, but what I have seen so far, my chars would breeze through.
I have no proof that you couldn't, so just let me says this: a level 199 HUcast died four times in one room here. Good luck.

[Tancient]

I find it more frustrating to see myself get frozen, then smacked mercilessly (Only takes a second)

Megid is more of an "Oops, dead" thing, really.

[Cynric]

On 2005-03-10 10:18, Tancient wrote:
I find it more frustrating to see myself get frozen, then smacked mercilessly (Only takes a second)

Megid is more of an "Oops, dead" thing, really.



Exactly. Fixed damage and megid aren't challenges, it's just "crap I forgot to dodge this time."

[Saffran]

I've played through 9-5 and 9-6 today, soloing Very Hard with a lv 157 Hucaseal.

I died 17 times total through both quests.

I will post some of the story later, right now I have to go, but these quests are really, REALLY cool. The scenery is beautiful too.

The last ennemy in there (Gill Tabril?) stood and took my comboing for 5 whole minutes until it died. I am SO glad I have a Suppressed Gun and a God Battle... That's the only weapon that could stop its constant attacking. Of course, you have to clear the room in the meantime, too.

As for the difficulty, Ep4 pwns any other area. Really.

[Cynric]

If you died 17 times with a 157, then I'm looking very forward to playing it today. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cynric on 2005-03-10 11:00 ]</font>

[Tancient]

Cynric, you should play right now, so we can go through at least one quest before I go to work. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Cynric]

I'm actually at school right now. <.< >.>

I won't be able to get on for some time today if at all, because of stuff I have to do right after I leave. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Tancient]

Ahhhh. Guess it'll have to wait until Friday. ^_^

I want to go to underground desert 3. It has the coll lava room. -_-

[Para]

I agree with you guys... Ep4 honestly is more of a challenge instead of ducking and hiding and just striking at the right time..

And yeah FS does not work well on golans because of the warping effect. you gotta be lucky when they dont warp.

besides kef, you havent even played ep4 so how can you even make an accurate assumption that it would be a breeze for you?? you only based it only theories and not facts.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nites on 2005-03-10 11:28 ]</font>

[Hrith]

On 2005-03-10 10:11, Cynric wrote:

On 2005-03-10 08:34, Kef wrote:
Ep2 is way more challenging, whether or not you like the way ST did Ep2 or Ep4 is up to you.
I have yet to see monsters as tough as Baranz, Delbiter, Ill Gill, Mericus, Merikle, Mericarol, Gi Gue, Gibbles, Epsilon, Sinow Zele, Deldepth, Morfos, Del Lily, and some others.Ep4 enemies legitamitely own you because of great abilities and AI. Just because something deals 1200 fixed damage or casts insta-death means that it's cheap, not hard.That's subjective. My opinion is that you aren't very good at the game, and welcome something easier as "more challenging" when it is not.
It is not more challenging, it's just that is is more appropriate to your level of skill at this game.
I'm not saying Ep2 is better, that's subjective, just that it's harder, and that it is.

I could call phasing, paralysis traps all over the place and monsters with uber range cheap, your point fails.

Calling Megid and one-hit kill attacks cheap is an opinion.

What I find cheap in PSO is monsters like Baranz killing you instantly if your HP is too high. So I would probably find Ep4 cheaper than Ep2.

Fixed damage attacks (Baranz, Morfos, Gi Gue...), extremely powerful monsters (Delbiter, Gibbles, Ill Gill, Sinow Zele, Epsilon...) and one-hit killers (Ill Gill, Del Lily, Deldepth, Mericarol, Merikle, Mericus, Epsilon...) make Ep2 way harder.


I have no proof that you couldn't, so just let me says this: a level 199 HUcast died four times in one room here.People have the right to suck.
Again, that proves nothing. I died 10 times in one PW#4 room with my Lv 173 RAcast because the FO was d/ced.
My Lv 193 HUcast would get pwned in Seabed if there was no FO using Jellen and Resta all over the place.

A Lv 199 HUcast could die 4 times in one Mine or Ruins room; that's not even an argument.

Try harder, really.

[Tancient]

I haven't taken the opportunity to try PW4, but the Tower runs are fairly easy, just stand in the right spots, and ta-da. Cake. The other PW quests are similar to what ep4 brings, but ep4 has that when its NOT in a quest. Its regular runs that have the waves of enemies that are worth their grout.

[Tycho]

Kef is right.

Attack being cheap is totally unrelated to whether or not the stage is hard, this sounds like an excuse. Paralyze can be annoying (Sol anyone?) and could possibly lead to you getting killed. But that's just not the same as being dead already. Episode two is harder.



On 2005-03-10 11:45, Tancient wrote:
I haven't taken the opportunity to try PW4, but the Tower runs are fairly easy, just stand in the right spots, and ta-da. Cake. The other PW quests are similar to what ep4 brings, but ep4 has that when its NOT in a quest. Its regular runs that have the waves of enemies that are worth their grout.


You should try to do PW4, it's fun. Last few times I did quite bad. u.u;
But for the tenth floors there isn't really such a thing as a safe spot. Same for a few other moments where you'll be surrounded.

[Para]

Hmm this is interesting.

Well its hard to say what is hard then because its all subjective right?

We could say there are different ways to approach hard.

Say Ep4 with its AI and its mixture of monsters is what makes it difficult. (Though we don't know if Episode IV is fully complete, for all we know they could make an Ep4 "tower")

And say Ep2 with its power of one hit kills and such.

Now how you approach each episode is how you play it. Episode II, you can take advantage of the AI because some of the monsters are pretty damn stupid and use petty gimmicks to beat them (using frozen shooter to freeze them, stun monsters by hitting them). Episode IV would be endurance because even though they may not have the same amount of power compared to Episode II's mericarol or Epsilon or whatever, the status changes (btw the status changes arent the only thing that makes it difficult) the mixture of AI and monsters is what makes it difficult. You can't freeze some of the monsters which is another difficulty bonus.

There's a degree to a challenge being hard and just being plain ridiculous and stupid.

Kef does have a point with the cheap thing, anything is legal I'll say even if someone likes to classify it as cheap.

Now the other thing is... I think SEGA intended Episode IV to be harder. A possible supporting theory is that the required level to play episode II is lower than episode IV thus Episode IV was intended to be harder. Give SEGA credit for using a different formula for an attempt to increase the difficulty instead of using the same idea of MORE DAMAGE! MORE POWER! MORE 1 HIT KILLS!

My opinion is that if Episode IV followed that same trend with more megid, more 1 hit kills... more or less it will be the same and pointless.


But that's just not the same as being dead already.A pretty good point tycho. Though I think what Cynric is trying to say is the struggle in battle is what makes Episode IV harder. I mean if you just die... not much of a thrill... but the struggle and battle to survive...

Still Kef even if you believe Episode II is harder, I suggest you try playing Episode IV first to get a first hand experience. I'm not saying that you are wrong but without the proper experience, you based all what you said on speculation and subjective opinions. Saying that the damage, one hit kills etc makes the episode overall harder is really subjective. Also consider this... The towers are only a small portion of Episode II. The rest of Episode II ain't that hard. The comparison isn't really valid if you only compare one small area of Episode II to the every area of Episode IV. Just because the Towers are hard != Episode II overall is hard aka informal fallacy - insufficient premise - hasty generalization.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nites on 2005-03-10 14:12 ]</font>

[Skorpius]

I find Episode 2 just annoying, giving you status ailments and instant killing to make it "difficult". It really isn't all that hard, because, like Kef said, Cure units aren't that rare. This already nulls a lot of what Episode 2 offers. Add on a high amount of EDK, easily obtained from one Resist Devil and Brightness Circle and you're set to go. The only thing in Episode two that has 100% chance of making your game difficult is Mericarol and Family. And how is a non-elemental kill technique "difficult"? Run to the right, run to the left, ATTACK WITH A GUN! Stratagy isn't exactly that high when facing one of these. ;l

However, from what I am hearing about Episode 4 is that the combination of enemies will create havok and force you to constantly change your game plan. No more Frozen Shooter to rely on, apparently. You need Tech Resistances now, constant tech attacks can kill you pretty quickly. A barrage of attacks that will halt your attacks every time you try to hit something, and they'll just phase anyway.

Now, yes, this can be subjective, but there isn't any reason to put down those who are telling us this information and front opinions when you really can't form any true decisions realting to Episode 4. These players don't "suck", that "opinion" is flawed and biased, and a poor excuse to make yourself look better. I find Episode 2 more annoying than difficult, and with the correct armor / units, I find it quite easy. So, what, does that mean you suck at PSO because you find it difficult? You die in PW4, while I find it rather simple solo / on a team of 2, in comparison to how other people view the quest. Did I go around blurting an opinion that you fail at PSO? No one else goes around putting down fellow players because of a bruised ego.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-03-10 13:48 ]</font>

[Saffran]

Add on a high amount of EDK, easily obtained from one Resist Devil and Brightness Circle and you're set to go.
Please, what do you want to do with 40 EDK? If you have more than 1550HP, go for Brightness Circle, Delsaber Shield/Light Relief and 3 Resist Devil units with a God Battle. If not, you might drop one Devil and the God Battle and go with 2 Perfect Resist units. Just be sure you can hit things. I mean as in "hit, at all". Right now Epsilon's stupidly high def is the only thing preventing me to solo ultimate PW4.

As far as my 17 deaths are concerned, I suppose I could have paid more attention. But seriously, when you face 2 Melissa A, a few Pyro Gorans and a Detonator, with Satelite Lizards following you, you can't predict how much you will lose the next time a hit connects...

[Shiva91]

Are they that tough?

[Nai_Calus]

Face it, there is no way to make PSO difficult outside of stupid tricks and cheap gimmicks, the battle system isn't complex enough for anything like that. No matter what the enemy AI is, it's still a matter of 'smack/shoot/cast, move, repeat, heal, blahblahblah'.

All they can really DO is make it annoying and cheap.

Probably why I can only stand PSO anymore playing with friends or doing Ep1 c-mode(After doing Ep2 c-mode once, I'm already bored with it)... Friends make it interesting, and at least random monster spawns give you variety.

And please, the required level is bullshit for all episodes. L90 for Ultimate Ep1? L100 for Ep2? ROFLMAO. Pssh. I still think L80 on GC is retarded, for crying out loud.

Sure, it's hard NOW, but once you take measures to combat the stupid gimmicks and learn the spawns on the maps, welp, yeah, there went all the difficulty.

The first time you do Forest not knowing anything, it's new and challenging. The six hundredth time, you can tell which map variation you're in within two rooms, and you know where the enemies are going to spawn, and you know how to deal with those enemies.

PSO is not hard, is never hard except when you're a n00b at an area, and will never become legitimately hard. >_>

[Cynric]

ST needs to bring back Dreamcast ultimate mode. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

[Nai_Calus]

On 2005-03-10 19:29, Cynric wrote:
ST needs to bring back Dreamcast ultimate mode. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif



ST needs to stop releasing the same fucking game 20 times and make a new battle system that actually poses some difficulty and interest.

I mean, in addition to the better character creation, the last wrestling game I played had a more subtle and varied battle system that actually required a small amount of thought as to what you were doing. XP Up until you started beating the shit of the other guy with a chair, of course.

[PJ]

On 2005-03-10 19:11, Ian-KunX wrote:
Face it, there is no way to make PSO difficult outside of stupid tricks and cheap gimmicks, the battle system isn't complex enough for anything like that. No matter what the enemy AI is, it's still a matter of 'smack/shoot/cast, move, repeat, heal, blahblahblah'.



Then again, what game isn't? Just change the words slightly to whatever those words would mean in that other game and you've got every other non menu based game out there.

And racers, but what does that count? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Saiffy]

Wasn't East Tower godlike when it was released? >_>

People simply aren't used to episode 4's tricks

[Omega_Nova]

On 2005-03-10 19:29, Cynric wrote:
ST needs to bring back Dreamcast ultimate mode. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif



Couldn't they patch this game to add another difficulty? so really that could be possible though it would be a huge patch...

[GyroidFanatic]

It would actually be quite small. All they'd need to do is to edit the menus and add a new table of enemy stats and drops.

[Omega_Nova]

I hope so, until then

*Continues quest to get FOnewearl into Ult. on DC*

[Para]

ok people i uploaded new pics + new video clip at my site http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif go download and enjoy.

[Puppet_Papaya]

I really find ep4 challenging. Playing it now, I'm having more fun with PSO than i've had in years and I've been playing it since DC ver 1. I think that's saying something, eh!

[Para]

Ok i finally did 9-5 and i decided after dying a few times not to continue cuz i didnt want to die...

9-5 is sick... its hard as hell... atleast in Towers in ep2 you can run and hide and screw the AI around

but in this... theres like no way out... i figured a strategy with FS vs Golans but its so difficult when theres so many

skorpius is right on his theory that desert is chaotic and hes right. Golans warp around you so they never pack up in a bunch thus you cant get a good shot of them together with a HU or a RA. Golans will either warp right up to you and melee you or out fight you in range. Their counter hit speed is so fast that it makes it not really possible to fully stun golan into submission. Not only this but back in GC, you could only have so many monsters in one room... I swear there was like 12 golans in one room in desert 1... FOrces might find it easier if they dont get killed so fast that is... I spend more time healling than fighting because there's so many golans and them attacking me after every heal. Hard to run away because they can teleport after you. Not only these factors come into play but Cynric mentioned the hotsand which in some rooms you cannot stop then you have rocks that randomly drop in different areas causing damage to the impact site + surrounding area. The only monster I found a bit lackluster was the Melissa. Melissa moves slowly and attacks slowly... somewhat mediocre. The times that it can trick you is that it jumps over you and behind and tries to attack you from behind. You have to becareful when to attack Melissa if its close to you because when its about to jump, it becomes untargetable thus you have the weapon withdraw delay, melissa behind you and has a good chance to give you a whack. Oh yeah... golans tend to warp before you can start another combo on it... that makes it even more annoying since once you fire and hit nothing, withdraw delay and get slapped by the golan!

Either way scary but really fun http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Hopefully tonight I can get S693C and a few others to come with me down to desert http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nites on 2005-03-11 12:56 ]</font>

[Cynric]

On 2005-03-11 12:51, Nites wrote:
I swear there was like 12 golans in one room in desert 1...

The last room has 17 Golans, 2 Rappies and a Zuu in one room at the same time. >.<



On 2005-03-11 12:51, Nites wrote:
Cynric mentioned the hotsand which in some rooms you cannot stop
That was Tancient, not me. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



On 2005-03-11 12:51, Nites wrote:
Oh yeah... golans tend to warp before you can start another combo on it... that makes it even more annoying since once you fire and hit nothing, withdraw delay and get slapped by the golan!

Still, I don't know what Tancient was talking about when she said mechs don't work. My Yas worked just fine on them, but then again I was in vhard. It might be different in ultimate.



On 2005-03-11 12:51, Nites wrote:
Hopefully tonight I can get S693C and a few others to come with me down to desert http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif