China On Alert for War

[Getintothegame]

News Here (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-03-13-china-taiwan_x.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno)

That's interesting. Wonder how it'll impact us?

[Wyndham]

well, I just hope that America keeps a neutral stance, though it's likely not to happen.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Oran1324 on 2005-03-13 22:58 ]</font>

[Getintothegame]

World War 3 then?

[Wyndham]

On 2005-03-13 23:13, Getintothegame wrote:
World War 3 then?



closely followed by a grudgematch.

[Nicktendonick]

Shit, this is not good. war seems to be looming over us, lets just pray that doesn't happen

[Shiva91]

Why can't we all just get along *sits world leaders in front of a GC and makes them play PSO online with eachother*

[KodiaX987]

Because capitalists hate communists, who hate muslims, who hate christians, who hate atheists, who hate environmentalists, who hate capitalists.

Simple! ^_^

[Shiva91]

ugh, that make my head spin. Why the hate, wheres the love?

[Daikarin]

Let's just hope those in the middle are sacrificed, and that everyone takes responsibilities for their decisions/actions.

And to all those "END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH" addicts, shut up and do something to improve the world, instead of ranting about how wrong it is.

I hope for the best.

[Solstis]

This isn't a huge deal.

Unless another nation makes it one. :/

[TheOneHero]

On 2005-03-13 23:13, Getintothegame wrote:
World War 3 then?



Nah, we all know what WW III (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=92966&forum=14) is about.

On topic, I have to second what Even_Jin said.

[Hrigg]

I hope this doesn't turn serious. Then they're going to both ask for help and if we side with one the other will hate us. I just jope the U.S stays neutral and out of the way.

[hucasts_rock]

The United States would be Taiwan's most likely defender if China attacked. Washington is lobbying strongly against European Union plans to lift a 15-year-old arms embargo against China, arguing that high-tech European weapons might be used against Taiwanese or U.S. forces.


Unfortunately, neutrality doesn't look promising.

[Ancient]

If China wanted to call our bluff and attack Taiwan, we would grudgingly step back and let them do it. Dispite our stance as the greatest military power EVER, China has one great advantage over us: they have more people in their army than we have bullets, quite literally. Why do you think we pussy foot around North Korea? Dispite the fact that they have the largest supply of chemical/biological WMD's in the WORLD? It's because they're buddies with China.
Its quite likely that America(and whatever alies we'd have) would indeed win in an all out war against China, but the distruction and loss of life would be on a scale not even seen in WWII. Both sides know this, but communists have less scruples about playing the fine line more.

[KodiaX987]

That, and there's probably "Made in China" embossed on some random M16 assault rifle... http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Split]

On 2005-03-14 08:52, Solstis wrote:
This isn't a huge deal.

Unless another nation makes it one. :/

Yeah, but I'd bet anything that with friggin George Dubya in office America will be that other nation. Don't blame me though, I didn't vote for him.

[Omega_Nova]

Ugh, I'm not going on the Chinese Blue Burst Beta for a while.

[Dangerous55]

On 2005-03-14 18:34, Ancient wrote:
If China wanted to call our bluff and attack Taiwan, we would grudgingly step back and let them do it. Dispite our stance as the greatest military power EVER, China has one great advantage over us: they have more people in their army than we have bullets, quite literally. Why do you think we pussy foot around North Korea? Dispite the fact that they have the largest supply of chemical/biological WMD's in the WORLD? It's because they're buddies with China.
Its quite likely that America(and whatever alies we'd have) would indeed win in an all out war against China, but the distruction and loss of life would be on a scale not even seen in WWII. Both sides know this, but communists have less scruples about playing the fine line more.




Two million soldiers with AK-47's cant do much when they can't even reach Taiwan.

Taiwan is an island, no Navy or Air Force comes close to ours. If we defend them the first fight would be in the ocean, one I think the odds are on our side.

And if China does attack them, we won't and shouldnt just sit and watch.

[navci]

On 2005-03-14 08:52, Solstis wrote:
This isn't a huge deal.

Unless another nation makes it one. :/



Which is always the case.
Let's see. What is Taiwan's position in here? Thing is, not many country actually recognize Taiwan as being a country of its own.

I am not entirely sure how many of the big country is going to treat this as "war against another country" rather than "internal" affairs. It depends on where the money lies, I guess.

[Solstis]

On 2005-03-15 12:47, Dangerous55 wrote:


On 2005-03-14 18:34, Ancient wrote:
If China wanted to call our bluff and attack Taiwan, we would grudgingly step back and let them do it. Dispite our stance as the greatest military power EVER, China has one great advantage over us: they have more people in their army than we have bullets, quite literally. Why do you think we pussy foot around North Korea? Dispite the fact that they have the largest supply of chemical/biological WMD's in the WORLD? It's because they're buddies with China.
Its quite likely that America(and whatever alies we'd have) would indeed win in an all out war against China, but the distruction and loss of life would be on a scale not even seen in WWII. Both sides know this, but communists have less scruples about playing the fine line more.




Two million soldiers with AK-47's cant do much when they can't even reach Taiwan.

Taiwan is an island, no Navy or Air Force comes close to ours. If we defend them the first fight would be in the ocean, one I think the odds are on our side.

And if China does attack them, we won't and shouldnt just sit and watch.



China, if it felt like it, could ravage Taiwan before we could amass a force quickly enough.

I think.

[Flame_Master]

i think you lot forgot that the GREAT chinese have NUCLEAR bombs just like america. so i don't you want a war against china or a nuc war

[Shiva91]

Well if anything, If one Nuke is fired, 200 more will too http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

All your base belong to us http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif (corny laugh) HA HA HA HA

[Solstis]

On 2005-03-16 12:49, Flame_Master wrote:
i think you lot forgot that the GREAT chinese have NUCLEAR bombs just like america. so i don't you want a war against china or a nuc war



Nukes are not infallible.

Remember those last few Chinese rocket tests? Yeah...

[Ranger_Larry]

On 2005-03-16 12:49, Flame_Master wrote:
i think you lot forgot that the GREAT chinese have NUCLEAR bombs just like america. so i don't you want a war against china or a nuc war

The good news is they have far fewer than us, and nowhere near the range of ours. They might hit a couple west coast cities at best, but we'd obliterate them. Peaple have to look at things both ways...(they are more worried about us than you think.) Our Navy and Air Force also totally EMBARRASS theirs. Although in the long run, this idiotic country better stop blowing all of it's money on useless things and letting other countries take control of our economy.... (that's Dubya for ya', give tax breaks to the rich, then start a useless war with Iraq, then we don't even get anything out of it!)

[Dangerous55]

On 2005-03-16 12:35, Solstis wrote:


China, if it felt like it, could ravage Taiwan before we could amass a force quickly enough.

I think.



Not in a ground or sea attack...no way they would be able to capture it before we did something. Of course their rockets of any type would do some hurting.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

On 2005-03-16 13:01, Shiva91 wrote:
Well if anything, If one Nuke is fired, 200 more will too http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

All your base belong to us http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif (corny laugh) HA HA HA HA


Please recognize where you are posting next time.

This isn't FKL and is a serious topic and discussion.

The "All your base..." quote has no place here.
The more times I see that, the more I get offended(especially when some punk kid said "Engrish.com, see retarded Japanese people who can't speak English correctly!").

One. Most of those games are old and the kids who read the quotes have never played them. Two. Japanese people are not required to be fluent in English, just because they programmed a game and the publishers wanted to release it overseas, without hiring someone to completely translate it perfectly(why should they? most of those games aren't very good/budget titles).

Japanese people don't look down on your Anime websites and other BS where you abuse the Japanese language and say:
"(insert website) Look! Retarded people who can't speak Japanese correctly!"

Sorry everybody. I could not hold that in any longer.

-On topic:
The news showed how lopsided the vote was for this new bill/law. Scary that there literally is no minority or objection. Only lopsided votes. 3000+ to 0 was it, 2 unaccounted for?

At what point is Taiwan considered breaking from mainland China? What exactly will have to happen before war can be declared?

Maybe not much at all, maybe a lot. Those things are undisclosed as of right now right? So people do have reason to be worried.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HAYABUSA-FMW- on 2005-03-17 00:24 ]</font>

[Solstis]

On 2005-03-16 23:46, HAYABUSA-FMW- wrote:


On 2005-03-16 13:01, Shiva91 wrote:
Well if anything, If one Nuke is fired, 200 more will too http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

All your base belong to us http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif (corny laugh) HA HA HA HA



Japanese people don't look down on your Anime websites and other BS where you abuse the Japanese language and say:
"(insert website) Look! Retarded people who can't speak Japanese correctly!"

-On topic:
The news showed how lopsided the vote was for this new bill/law. Scary that there literally is no minority or objection. Only lopsided votes. 3000+ to 0 was it, 2 unaccounted for?

At what point is Taiwan considered breaking from mainland China? What exactly will have to happen before war can be declared?

Maybe not much at all, maybe a lot. Those things are undisclosed as of right now right? So people do have reason to be worried.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HAYABUSA-FMW- on 2005-03-17 00:24 ]</font>


Oh, come on. They make fun of Americans, just not all that openly (well, the younger crowd might, now).

This seems to be more of a pissing contest than a real threat. And the vote? It's still a mildly communist nation... I wouldn't want to be the sole opposer of such a bill.

[navci]

Hm.
Ya know. I have always wondered why they just can't co-exist peacefully? Not like there is something they absolutely have to go get from Taiwan. Tactical advantage? I am guessing it is probably it.

Though, really. Taiwan has been on its own for such a long time, and have developed quite an interesting culture over there that is unique to the place. It'd be a shame to lose it. However, I can't say I have my heart on their side, they have some really oddly fucked up politics going on there. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[tank1]

There wont be a war between america and china EVER!!! because both sides would wipe eachother out.
If a country has nukes then you cant touch it because the secound your about to hoist your flag over there capital a load of there nukes will whizz into yours and vice versa. Its all bullshit like Iraq if Iraq really had wmds then Britain and America would of chose diplomacy before guns. The same with N.korea America wont attack them not because of china but because N.korea supposedly has Wmds which means bye bye washington if america even sets foot on theyre soil.

[Logical2u]

There was a large premise created after Russia developed nuclear weapons.
The Mutually Assured Destruction Scenario, which led to America building around 3 empty silos for every active nuclear missle they could use, so that enemy nations might target empty silos.

Sadly, even the great bunkers of time (Such as Canada's DeifenBunker, named after one of our Prime Ministers) would perish with even a nuclear missile miles away now, which 40 years ago would've only been damaged with a direct hit.
If China mobilizes it's army, and attack a democratic nation or a Anglo-American ally, such as Taiwan, if possible, there will be a global outpouring of hate towards China, and quite possibly a major front against it... however, any attack will be fraught with difficulties do the fact that so much production comes from China.

Really, if China does anything to piss off Bush, he'll rally in congress in his Texan drawl and pray the Chinese don't build one heck of a huge ass boat fleet and invade Seattle.

Because if there is a war, the damage to the world will be catastrophic and send the survivors into the dark ages.

China's man power and weapons could overpower most armies given time, but America's Nuclear weapons are probably more vast, considering their army is much smaller in size.

So, basically, Eurasia and North America would be screwed with radioactive fallout, nuclear missles and bombs, and the damage caused by around 3-4 million soldiers battling it out with probably depleted uranium shells and heavy metal rounds, deisel burning tanks, and high explosibve shells.

[Dangerous55]

I don't think nukes will ever be used by two civilized nations against each other. The result would be pointless.

[DLShAdOw]

think again *nukes Dangerous55*

[KodiaX987]

I second D55. The only reason either party would use nukes would be out of pure anger and in a "I'm takin' you down with me" situation. Not something we'd expect from China, much less from Bush.

[Dangerous55]

On 2005-03-18 16:46, KodiaX987 wrote:
I second D55. The only reason either party would use nukes would be out of pure anger and in a "I'm takin' you down with me" situation. Not something we'd expect from China, much less from Bush.




Thank you.

Now I am waiting for the war-loving Bush comments from some users...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dangerous55 on 2005-03-18 22:15 ]</font>

[Shiva91]

Whats there to say, Bush is an idiot and we'll all be dead at the end of his career.

[Dangerous55]

On 2005-03-19 07:49, Shiva91 wrote:
Whats there to say, Bush is an idiot and we'll all be dead at the end of his career.




Sigh....no. That's like all you can say to that.

[BIZKIT]

1,000,000,000 vs. 300,000,000.....hmmmm. kamakaze anyone?

[Omega_Nova]

I feel really sorry for you americans that are stuck with bush.... sadly enough I'm willing to bet $1000 that we will see a bush in the next election.

[Dangerous55]

On 2005-03-19 21:16, Omega_Nova wrote:
I feel really sorry for you americans that are stuck with bush.... sadly enough I'm willing to bet $1000 that we will see a bush in the next election.




I'll take that bet.



On 2005-03-19 21:07, BIZKIT wrote:
1,000,000,000 vs. 300,000,000.....hmmmm. kamakaze anyone?




Kamikazes would be a massive waste of limited Chinese resources like...fighter planes, submarines, etc. Let them use it...and that was the Japanese anyway. Not all Asians are the same.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dangerous55 on 2005-03-19 21:53 ]</font>

[ABDUR101]

I think the real question that needs to be asked is, who gives a shit and why?

If Florida decided to break off from the US, would China give a shit? I would'nt even give a shit. So why would America care? Why should America care? Too often does America make the world's business, it's business.

I think everyone in the world needs a hobby, so everyone can leave everyone else alone. Have designated sandbox spots or something.

Unless China is going to start a genocide upon the people of Taiwan, or really fuck up everyone's way of life to the point that living is unbearable, it's not a big deal. And most certainly not "WW III-big deal". Hell, I doubt it's even big enough a deal to start a war over, at most a "civil war", which will most likely be ended rather quickly.

And yet again, even if it does boil down to open combat, it's an internal affair.

[Dangerous55]

ABDUR there are can't be any "internal conflicts" in this world anymore.


Florida seceding from the Union(which you should care about if it happened) is alot different from China attacking Taiwan to "reclaim" it. It would be more like the USA attacking parts of Canada that we once owned. That wouldn't be a US-Canadian conflict it should be the UN coming in and fighting us off because it is obviously stupid. Sadly, the UN probably won't do anything if China attacks Taiwan.

The world shouldn't turn its back and say "I don't care" when a fucking war breaks out.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dangerous55 on 2005-03-19 22:42 ]</font>

[ABDUR101]

Well unless theres a legnth of time in which an area can be considered "on it's own" and gain it's sovereigty, and if it's been met or if China is still offering support to Taiwan in some way, however it falls is how it falls.

And no, really I don't care. Wars? When the hell isn't there a war going on somewhere in the world. When is someone not being mistreated or harmed by an occupying force or rebels or factions or warmongers?

There's still plenty to clean up after the last pile of shit thats still going on, I think everyone needs to back the hell up and prioritize efforts. So what is it, we're not even done in Iraq and now we're already moving in to confront China to help Taiwan?

Here's an idea, is keeping Taiwan independent even worth taking on China and losing so many lives for if a war does break out over it? And the mention of nukes, heh, shit. Funny how it comes down to nukes to keep a country independent.

Not to be an ass, but if Taiwan wants to stand against China, go for it. Just don't expect every other country with big guns and an armada to stand in front to take all the hits.

If China is making life in Taiwan unlivable and the populace is dieing a slow stagnant death and China isn't doing anything but letting it happen, then I'm for helping Taiwan, but if not, then no.

*edit*
I'm done by the way, just throwing in some cents for everyone to think about. I don't care about what happens enough to go into a discussion over what the world needs to do for itself.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ABDUR101 on 2005-03-20 10:25 ]</font>

[Dark_Heal_v2]

Being a Chinese, first of all I need to say the title is miss leading.

That bill was made just to scare the Taiwanese president Chen to make sure he doesn't do anything stupid. That law is simply just a threat and nothing more, those policies mentioned has always been the same since Taiwan broke away, so really nothing has been changed.

The Communist was pretty worried that Chen (who just won re-election by making up a false assignation attempt) would declare independence since he was from a pro-independent party. But since the last legislatorial election in Taiwan, the pro-peace/unification won the majority, thus making this bill showing up at the wrong place at the wrong time as it would alienate the Taiwanese and let Chen have excuses to continue his pro-independent policies.

The fact is, the Chinese are more worried/afraid about Taiwan going independent rather than the Taiwanese themselves. China clearly does not want to start a war in the middle of an economic bloom and alienate the western countries who are having major trade relations with them (mainly US).

Even though President Bush is required by law to protect Taiwan if war is to be broken out, the enthusiasm is seriously in question. The question is what good does an independence Taiwan do to US as compared to going into war with one of their major trading parter? (there are many Wal-Marts in China if you don't already know) The fact is the Americans hate the Chinese and the Chinese hate the Americans (in terms of politics not culturally) but both of them need each other to survive, kind of like married couple who hates each other. Considering the amount of trouble of what a war in Iraq can cause, now imagine how a 1.3 billon people and a country having a larger land mass than US itself could do. (Think Korean War and keep in mind that was China 50 years ago) It's true that the Chinese army is nothing compared to the US's, but don't forget you have to go all the way across the pacific to fight on their home ground. The most I could see a possible scenario happen is US providing supplies to Taiwan and medical/technical personnel and some vocal threats to China, but that should be about it. (Let alone the earlier discussion about Nukes)

The main issue when Taiwan broke away from mainland China was with the backdrop of the Cold War, nowadays things are different and a scenario of war is highly unlikely.

As for the UN interfering with the possible war, that's not going to happen since China has a permanent seat in the security council and can veto anything from there.

After all these talk, the threat of war is just simply a tool used in politics rather that a reality. I wouldn’t be surprised that China would do nothing if Taiwan formally declares itself as a nation.

[BoarDemon]

Cheers!

[Dhylec]

On 2005-03-20 10:58, BoarDemon wrote:
Cheers!

wth? please.. can't you at least make it like you are interested in the topic & give a better comment?

[BoarDemon]

On 2005-03-20 11:34, Dhylec wrote:


On 2005-03-20 10:58, BoarDemon wrote:
Cheers!

wth? please.. can't you at least make it like you are interested in the topic & give a better comment?



Sorry about that, I'm very interested in this topic, but I have a hard time stating my opinion on subjects such as these.

[Dangerous55]

On 2005-03-20 10:24, ABDUR101 wrote:


*edit*
I'm done by the way, just throwing in some cents for everyone to think about. I don't care about what happens enough to go into a discussion over what the world needs to do for itself.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ABDUR101 on 2005-03-20 10:25 ]</font>


Right. Then I am done too. Not caring about the breakout of a major war because it doesnt directly affect you is really really really crummy.



All in all, things should stay how they are. China shouldnt attack them, Taiwan shouldnt declare independence. I think if one happens one will lead to the other. Anyway Taiwan should be protected by us, Germany, Australia, England whoever, but they shouldnt be left alone.

I would also like to add that I am glad FDR didnt just brush off Germany and Italy because we were at war with Japan.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dangerous55 on 2005-03-20 13:56 ]</font>