Chain Sawd vs Red Sword [Archive]

Quo

Mar 30, 2005, 06:56 PM

On 2005-03-30 15:45, Luis wrote:
hey dude i am from kissimmee florida too!!! thats great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hey dude you're a spammer!!!! that sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like Red Sword more, but if I had both, I would choose the one with the most ATA (Base ATA + hit%) since swords aren't so accurate.

I guess my point is that both are good, but one may be better than the other depending on %.

TheDing

Mar 30, 2005, 07:59 PM

I heard that the chainsawd has a really cool sound effect while using it.... is that true?

Jason

Mar 30, 2005, 08:39 PM

On 2005-03-30 16:59, TheDing wrote:
I heard that the chainsawd has a really cool sound effect while using it.... is that true?

It have its unique sound like an actual chainsaw when wielded.

Skorpius

Mar 30, 2005, 09:10 PM

They're about equal.

Red Sword has variable ATP, but variable ATP really is irrelevant.
Sawd looks cooler, but that's personal preference.
Paralysis is an Ok special, but it isn't like Gush on a Sword is any better.
Sawd has less ATA, but only 1 point.
Sawd decreses EVP by 15, oh no!
Red Sword needs 70 less ATP to equip.
Sawd is easier to find, if you have a Skyly. If not, then you're screwed, making Red Sword easier to find by default.

Hrith

Mar 30, 2005, 09:21 PM

Unreduced Gush is awesome on a sword, especially with hit%, really, it's an incredible special, and sword is one of the best weapon for it, since you can draw HP from several monsters at once, which fills up your HP gauge in one combo.

And variable ATP is relevant, you seem to be the only one to think otherwise.
Variable ATP means that Red Sword does not have 715 ATP, but 609, that is everything but irrelevant.

TheSoulEater

Mar 30, 2005, 09:51 PM

I prefer the chainsawd. One less ATA and less EVP doesnt bother me in the slightest. Gush is far more useful than paralysis, and Sawd does look cooler.

ViewtifulJoe

Mar 30, 2005, 10:33 PM

Sawd is cooler, as Red Sword is practically a Claymore in looks. Sawd also makes a spinning gears chainsaw sound, and sparks come out each swing.

This probably isn't normal, but for a Skyly going through caves, in enough runs that we should have found (in a perfect world) one of each, we've found 3 Chain Sawds, (one with 40% dark, none with hit http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif) and no Red Sword.

Skorpius

Mar 30, 2005, 10:41 PM

On 2005-03-30 18:21, Kef wrote:
Unreduced Gush is awesome on a sword, especially with hit%, really, it's an incredible special, and sword is one of the best weapon for it, since you can draw HP from several monsters at once, which fills up your HP gauge in one combo.
You can Paralize them, too. But it's all subjective there.

And variable ATP is relevant, you seem to be the only one to think otherwise.
Variable ATP means that Red Sword does not have 715 ATP, but 609, that is everything but irrelevant.

Actually, it's nothing BUT irrelevant.

Using this example of Sawd vs R-Sword:

Sawd has ATP of 555.
Red Sword has 504-715 (609 avg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Snapshots/varyatp.png

You'll do more damage with Red Sword than Sawd more often than you would do less. It is, indeed, stronger, and the variable ATP becomes irrelevant.

[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-03-31 00:22 ]

RedSchwar

Mar 30, 2005, 10:46 PM

What if someone LIKES the look of a Claymore?

I don't understand how all of you can decide what IS FACTUALLY better on a matter of opinion.

not much less powerful than Red Sword

Last time I checked, it was a considerable difference. Enough so that even the Red Sword's weakest hit is stronger than the Chainsawd's non-varied hit.

Gush? Think of it this way: If you're online, and you know even a few decent players, chances are there will be someone around who can heal. Gush is pretty worthless online.

I love how people here think that because they've been around for a long time (ie. Kef) that they can pontificate on any subject and pass it off as fact without backing it up with the proper evidence.

I don't particularly care for your posts, Kef. You seem very condescending. And you don't seem to allow any chance for people to figure things out for themselves.

As skilled as you are, you were a n00b once, and you knew just as little as n00bs do now. The moral of the story is that ANYONE could get to your level of knowledge given the time put in, so you should stop acting like you're superior to all other players.

I know I'm going to get flamed because everyone here hangs on Kef's every word, but I'm just tired of it. Really people, you should try thinking for yourselves.

How good and virtuous can a person be if they have to brag about all of their greatest finds, and have them shown in every post? Isn't that kinda haughty? How virtuous can a person be if he's always trying to distinguish himself as "better". And how much trust can you put in a person who seemingly does everything for glory and attention?

Dek

Mar 30, 2005, 11:04 PM

On 2005-03-30 19:46, RedSchwar wrote:
I love how people here think that because they've been around for a long time (ie. Kef) that they can pontificate on any subject and pass it off as fact without backing it up with the proper evidence.

He knows facts. He has opinions. Last I checked, he does back up his opinions (especially with the Whitill ordeal).

As skilled as you are, you were a n00b once, and you knew just as little as n00bs do now. The moral of the story is that ANYONE could get to your level of knowledge given the time put in, so you should stop acting like you're superior to all other players.

And this has to do with what?

I know I'm going to get flamed because everyone here hangs on Kef's every word, but I'm just tired of it. Really people, you should try thinking for yourselves.

I do think for myself, thank you very much.

How good and virtuous can a person be if they have to brag about all of their greatest finds, and have them shown in every post? Isn't that kinda haughty? How virtuous can a person be if he's always trying to distinguish himself as "better". And how much trust can you put in a person who seemingly does everything for glory and attention?

Go to your options and turn off signatures. There! That "problem" is solved.

But as far as the topic goes, it's hard for me to say seeing that I have only successfully found Chain Sawd. For now, its my favorite, but I truely am anticipating the day that I get my hands on a Red Sword.

Skorpius

Mar 30, 2005, 11:07 PM

Way to go, Arthas_Zero, feuling a fire that has NOTHING to do with you.

Whoops @ me!

TheDing

Mar 30, 2005, 11:10 PM

the easiest quest to get it in is Addicting Food right or is it Waterfall Tears?

TheOneHero

Mar 30, 2005, 11:16 PM

On 2005-03-30 19:46, RedSchwar wrote:

Gush? Think of it this way: If you're online, and you know even a few decent players, chances are there will be someone around who can heal. Gush is pretty worthless online.

Some people like to solo online. Also, there are times when the person who has Resta CAN'T get close enough to the injured player to use it.

I love how people here think that because they've been around for a long time (ie. Kef) that they can pontificate on any subject and pass it off as fact without backing it up with the proper evidence. Stop targeting Kef, you're going to get yourself warned/banned. Besides, Kef DOES back up his statements.

I don't particularly care for your posts, Kef. You seem very condescending. And you don't seem to allow any chance for people to figure things out for themselves.

As skilled as you are, you were a n00b once, and you knew just as little as n00bs do now. The moral of the story is that ANYONE could get to your level of knowledge given the time put in, so you should stop acting like you're superior to all other players.

Take it to the PMs. And newb does not = n00b. You can use forum search to find that out. =)

I know I'm going to get flamed because everyone here hangs on Kef's every word, but I'm just tired of it. Really people, you should try thinking for yourselves. You know, if you actually read the forums. You'd notice we don't hang on Kef's EVERY word. Some of the stuff he says I disagree on, stop spreading bull shit.

How good and virtuous can a person be if they have to brag about all of their greatest finds, and have them shown in every post?

It's called a signature dumbass.

Edit* TheDing, most people like to do Addicting Food Run's. If you check the stickies, Tycho has a guide on where it is usually the easiet to find a weapon/armor/item. =)

[ This Message was edited by: TheOneHero on 2005-03-30 20:17 ]

Skorpius

Mar 31, 2005, 01:24 AM

On 2005-03-30 20:07, Skorpius wrote:
Way to go, TheOneHero, feuling a fire that has NOTHING to do with you.

Whoops @ me!

kazuma56

Mar 31, 2005, 04:36 AM

I say Red Sword, for the most part, Sawd is good, but since you cannot escape using the combo if you don't target the enemy from behind or side attack them, it makes it quite pointless, I'd rather hack an enemy down than bother with doing 2 hits every so often to heal HP. Granted it's special is better, but i'd rather a Gush Gungnir with high hit because of the fact that you can escape... that and hit% on rare weapons aren't that easy to come by compared to regular weapons.

Hrith

Mar 31, 2005, 06:25 AM

On 2005-03-30 19:46, RedSchwar wrote:
Last time I checked, it was a considerable difference.
Then check again, n00b, the difference in damage dealt does not exceed 50.

I love how people here think that because they've been around for a long time (ie. Kef) that they can pontificate on any subject and pass it off as fact without backing it up with the proper evidence.I love how people can ridicule themselves and not realise it. I've made enough guides about PSO to back up any word of mine.

I said I "like" Sawd better, mainly because I find the Red Sword too ugly to exist in my bank.

But I was right about the variance, and Skorpius proved it, RS does not have 715 ATP, end of story.
A variance of 211 is huge, and it annoys me, now think that the variance only grows bigger with Shifta, it becomes unbearable. Skorp does not mind, good for him. It's still one of the most relevant things about weapons.

The moral of the story is that ANYONE could get to your level of knowledge given the time put in.
Words, words, you have only words, so easy to resort to words, you prove nothing, it's best you shut up.

How virtuous can a person be if he's always trying to distinguish himself as "better".I don't aspire to be virtuous, and I don't distinguish myself as better, you do, with stupid posts like those, I stand out as better thanks to you.

And how much trust can you put in a person who seemingly does everything for glory and attention?Sorry to ask you to use your brain, but did it occur to you that if so many people like me, it's because I'm cool and humble ?

Actually, asking a person like you to think is hypocritical, if you were able to do so, you would realize how stupid your post is, and not post in the first place. You must really like being ridiculous.

Skorpius

Mar 31, 2005, 06:38 AM

On 2005-03-31 03:25, Kef wrote:
But I was right about the variance, and Skorpius proved it, RS does not have 715 ATP, end of story.
Actually, the original argument was if Variable ATP was relevant in combat, not if there was a variance, and I disproved your claim that variable ATP was relevant at all. Please make sure you're on track with the arguments and discussions.

It's still one of the most relevant things about weapons.
The only weapon where variable ATP really matters is Needle, but the base minimum of item availability (which means no S-rank Needle) doesn't give you any other option.

And, this part confused me:

On 2005-03-31 03:25, Kef wrote:

On 2005-03-30 19:46, RedSchwar wrote:
Last time I checked, it was a considerable difference.
Then check again, n00b, the difference in damage dealt does not exceed 50.
----------
A variance of 211 is huge, and it annoys me, now think that the variance only grows bigger with Shifta, it becomes unbearable.
If the damage delt does not exceed 50, then why does it irk you at all, and why is the variance even relevant if the damage delt is so small?

[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-03-31 03:45 ]

Neith

Mar 31, 2005, 07:10 AM

Chain Sawd is better, especially on a HUcast/caseal. Group up some enemies, drop a freeze trap, and fill your HP without a 'mate. Since it's unreduced, you'll usually steal 120HP from everything you hit (works wonders on Mothvists/verts, or on enemies like Recoboxes.) The Red Sword can do more damage, but looks too wide, has a crappy special attack, and is harder to find generally (Skyly being the exception) In Skyly Cave, do a quest like Addicting Food, tons of Vulmers and Govulmers. They're both likely to drop, although I'd expect to see the Chain Sawd drop first. In my eyes, Chain Sawd wins.

Nai_Calus

Mar 31, 2005, 07:45 AM

Red Sword would look insufferably cool if it wasn't too big for anybody but large HUmar/HUcasts.

Wait, so Gush on a multi-hit weapon, and then getting smacked by (presumably) un-Jellened enemies is OK, but S-rank Zalure and then getting smacked isn't? I'm apparently missing something.

As for which to use, use the one you like better. Don't ask other people here for their opinions, your question won't get answered and we'll get more boring crap like this. >_>;

Just... Use what looks best to you, and what does what you want it to do. Oh snap, Meteor Cudgel has variable ATP. Too bad it makes no difference in my HUmar's performance. And hey, it looks cooler than Demo Comet.

Quit whining about crap that doesn't matter, people. Variable ATP didn't eat your babies. Just play the fucking game and quit pretending your penis is better than everyone else's because you care entirely too much about worthless crap.

Tycho

Mar 31, 2005, 07:52 AM

Uriko, in contrary to really popular belief, Red Sword is easier to find in Viridia, not in Skyly.
Anyway, the guy has a Skyly, and no Viridia, so...

I say he starts doing a bunch of Skyly Mop Up 2 runs, and goes by whichever of the two he finds first. If after that he thinks he would prefer the other one (For unreduced Gush and looks? For slightly better stats and and extra max-ATP boost during Shifta?), he will hunt the other one.

If only one of the two would be far harder to find I would say go for the easier one, maybe with hit even. But Red Sword is only 2 ~ 3 times as hard to get, so um..
Good luck on your MU2 runs. You're more likely to find the Chain-Sawd first, but since you're Skyly is a HUcast, unreduced Gush would be quite nice.
Cheers.

Neith

Mar 31, 2005, 08:40 AM

I found the Red Sword under Skyly Tycho, I just think a 1/900 Govulmer drop isnt too hard, given the amount of Govulmers in quests like Addicting Food, where you can also pick up the Chain Sawd on the way. The Viridia drop I find a little harder, as a Nano Dragon is a less common enemy overall. Yes, there are quests with lots of dragons, but the offline quests like Addicting Food have a lot of other enemies, making it an ideal item-hunting quest for a Skyly. Personal preference appears to have overwhelmed this topic though, myself included, as these are only my opinions.

I use the Red Sword on my HUney as her multi-hit weapon, only until I get her a Red Partisan for her. In my experience of using the sword, my damage varies incredibly, which is a nuisance (usually between 540-600 with a heavy attack with lv20 Shifta) The Chain Sawd is used by my HUcaseal because of the nice ATP and special attack, in conjunction with a set of S-Red's and a Red Partisan. The damage from the Chain Sawd hardly varies per hit, so I can work out how many hits it takes to kill certain enemies (which I cant really work out when using the Red Sword). I loved the Red Sword when I first got it, but over time, Ive found the Chain Sawd more useful, absolute lifesaver on a droid.

CrazyJ

Mar 31, 2005, 08:59 AM

On 2005-03-31 03:38, Skorpius wrote:
And, this part confused me:

On 2005-03-31 03:25, Kef wrote:

On 2005-03-30 19:46, RedSchwar wrote:
Last time I checked, it was a considerable difference.
Then check again, n00b, the difference in damage dealt does not exceed 50.
----------
A variance of 211 is huge, and it annoys me, now think that the variance only grows bigger with Shifta, it becomes unbearable.
If the damage delt does not exceed 50, then why does it irk you at all, and why is the variance even relevant if the damage delt is so small?

[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-03-31 03:45 ]

Well, I think that proves the point right there. Kef contradicts himself in his own arguement in favor of the Sawd.

Now, in my opinion the Red Sword is FAR superior to the Chain Sawd. I've had both without % for sometime now (and recently gave away two Chainsawds to a pal at work who plays PSO). I actually took both into caves and fought through to the boss switching from one to the other occasionally.

Here's what I discovered:

Without %'s both weapons are woefully inaccurate with their specials (making Gush irrelevant). Advantage: Neither

Red Sword hit harder EVERYTIME than Chainsawd. It didn't matter if it was a weak or strong hit. Red Sword has more power. Period. Advantage: Red Sword

Chain Sawd has a -15 to your Evasion. Red Sword has no change on your Evasion. Advantage: Red Sword

Appearance-wise the Chainsawd kicks the Red Sword's ass. Advantage: Chainsawd

In summation: The Red Sword wins, but barely: 2-1-1

As a side note...I feel that if you can find a Chainsawd with hit % you should go with that over a Red Sword, but assuming you have both with similar % then logic dictates that the Red Sword is the better weapon.

-- J

Tycho

Mar 31, 2005, 10:40 AM

On 2005-03-31 05:59, CrazyJ wrote:

You just completely ignored that the Sawd's special is unreduced, making it far superior for solo play on droids.
Ofcourse Red Swords has slightly better stats, but not being able to calculate what kind of combo you would need to finish an enemy off, and whether or not you will be able to in one combo, is of utmost importance as well.

Looks don't count, so don't say that's one point for Sawd though.
By the way, Kef knows what he's talking about. Unlike me. xP

rena-ko

Mar 31, 2005, 11:21 AM

warning for redschwar for flamebaiting.

everyone, settle back on topic or this thread will be locked.

thank you very much.

RedSchwar

Mar 31, 2005, 12:08 PM

That is NOT defined as flamebaiting.

I said "I do not care for your posts." That is a fact. I really do not care for Kef's posts. I don't feel he gives new players a chance to figure things out.

Then check again, n00b, the difference in damage dealt does not exceed 50.

I consider 50 quite considerable.

Also Kef, you said that you do not aspire to be virtuous. Yet man's intellect is naturally drawn to the truth. If there is truth in virtue, then does that mean you're not drawn to the truth?

Also, mod who warned me, if you want to post an official warning, the least you could do is punctuate and capitalize correctly. You should represent your site with some dignity and professionalism.

Also Kef, is that signature in site regulations? It seems a bit gawdy to me.

Sitka

Mar 31, 2005, 12:23 PM

Boy, everytime someone asks an honest question about "what's better," it always turns into one of these things.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and the board is a place to express those opinions. It's nice when they can be backed up by evidence/facts and such, but people can still give their "unreduced" opinion. What is uncalled for are personal attacks - there is no need.

I have played with Kef and found him to be a wonderful partner. I have watched his posts for a long time. I have great respect for his opinion precisely because he does know more about this game than anyone else that I know. He has publicly refuted many of my posts in the past and that's fine by me. It's made me learn to be more careful about putting forward inaccurate opinions or comments.

So, please, let's move on from the personal attacks. I have both swords and like playing with both swords. I do not like variable attack ATP because I do play a solo hucast a lot and I need to know how many swings I can take before I have to turn away from the enemy. Having played a lot of challenge, that's a critical part of the play and it has carried over into the way I play regularly.

Because of that, I would tend to favor Chain Sawd.