Special: Hell

[Shar]

Hello there,

I was wondering to which megid level you can compare the Hell special. If anyone knows, thanks.

[Tycho]

It has a 93% chance of succeeding given the opponent has 0 EDK, so.. According to PSOW's guides, that's equal to Megid level 26.5.

[Shar]

Alright, thanks. I've always wondered that.. Don't know why. But I guess a Ranger with some decent ATA and a hell weapon with some hit preferred would do better then most of the Forces with megid. In area's like seabed that is.

*hugs 35hit hell raygun*

[SJ]

You don't even play ra, gib -_-.

[Shar]

On 2005-04-04 10:50, SJ wrote:
You don't even play ra, gib -_-.



*Points to RAcaseal*

[Bu5ta]

The best would be a Hell Laser with HIT. Laser has 10 more ata than Raygun, so a Laser with 25% HIT is better than Raygun with 30% HIT. This is of course disregarding their range difference and attack speed.

Oh and gib that Raygun! -points to RAmar- =D

[Hrith]

No, a Raygun is better than a Laser, simply because 8 more classes can use it >_>

[Tycho]

Monsters in online Ultimate Seabed like Deldepth and Delbiter have 80 EDK. Megid L30 would have a 20% chance of killing those, while Hell could only hit 13% of the time, that is assuming your ATA is perfect (which it is not, for special attacks in online Ultimate Seabed it isn't even for a level 200 RAmar with maxed stats).

This special is not at all capable of replacing a Force's Megid against all enemies. Don't draw conclusions like that this fast.

[Shar]

But if you realise that you can shoot 3 bullets in a combo. Is a lot faster then 3 megid balls. Thus the faster you have results. Also, there aren't much Forces with megid level 30.

[CrazyJ]

hmm, you make an excellent point Shar. Time to try my Hell Vulcans with 40% hit against Seabed and see how bad I get owned.

-- J

[Hrith]

On 2005-04-05 07:29, Shar wrote:
But if you realise that you can shoot 3 bullets in a combo. Is a lot faster then 3 megid balls. Thus the faster you have results.Sure you can combo... "Miss, miss, miss" http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif


Also, there aren't much Forces with megid level 30./Technique units stack.

[Shar]

On 2005-04-05 09:47, Kef wrote:
Sure you can combo... "Miss, miss, miss" http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif
That is either when ata is on the lower side
*Looks at friend with high ATA who kills Morfors before I can zalure it* >_<;
Or you're facing a monster with quite some EDK. And at that point megid also fails.


/Technique units stack.
Yes, but unfortunately that can mess up your equipment. Even with God/Technique. Most people I know of already having problems finding Megid 27.

I'm not saying Megid is bad. Not at all, it rocks eventually. I just think someone with high ATA would be better. And that's just said out of experience in seabed.

[Ryna]

Shar wrote:
I'm not saying Megid is bad. Not at all, it rocks eventually. I just think someone with high ATA would be better. And that's just said out of experience in seabed.


If you are playing online, you'll need a high hit% (> 50%) Hell weapon to be able to compete with a FO.

When I was doing Seabeds Zele runs, Rena would bring along her FOnewearl and I'd use my level 195+ RAmarl. Rena had level 27+ Megid and I used a 35% hit Hell Raygun sometimes. In the vast majority of circumstances, Rena was able to kill several monters with Megid while I was going "Miss, Miss, Miss". Very rarely would the Hell special work on the first try. It often required 3-4 full combos to work. I decided I was better off using a Mechgun since I could kill most Seabeds enemies in 1-2 combos.

[CrazyJ]

ahh, this is all true. However, with a 50% Hit Hell Vulcan your odds increase a good bit as your bullets will miss a little less often (or such has been my experience at least). Even on my HUnewearl my Hell Vulcans are a beast.

-- J

[Hrith]

What Ryna said, I have a RAmarl and RAmar with max ATA; hell weapons don't work that often on monsters with low EDK. My best, despite the lack of hit%, is Yamigarasu, probably because melee weapons miss less than bullets to begin with.

And Megid Lv 29 is not rare, just play Seabed or Ruins or Tower and it will drop, but it will never drop in other areas, yeah.

[Blitzkommando]

There is still one key difference between Megid and Hell. Hell is free to use. I myself carry a Hell Laser with 50 hit into the majority of my Episode II games. I usually use it on the lower EDK creatures but sometimes luck out on the more resistant. But all in all, FOnewearl is still the best way about single kills.

Also, people should try their hit Hell weapons and Megid in Episode I. It is more effective than you might have first thought, albeit not nearly as effective as Episode II, in general.

[Tycho]

On 2005-04-05 14:18, BLITZKOMMANDO wrote:
There is still one key difference between Megid and Hell. Hell is free to use.

My TP is near free. :o

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-04-05 11:16, CrazyJ wrote:
ahh, this is all true. However, with a 50% Hit Hell Vulcan your odds increase a good bit as your bullets will miss a little less often (or such has been my experience at least). Even on my HUnewearl my Hell Vulcans are a beast.

-- J



Wouldn't that be a reduced special, then...?
Meaning the chance divided between each bullet of a button press.
Unless it's an S-Rank mechgun, in which case it couldn't have hit %.

Besides, with Fonewearl or the right weapon on FO, penetrating megid is a possibility, which seems to greatly increase its worth (yeah you'd have the same chance of killing that single monster, but if it misses that one there's another X number of targets that can die from it).

Comparing Hell special boosted to its potential against just "level 30 megid" doesn't really seem that fair. Not saying Hell special is bad or anything, but you have to also factor the potential of a penetrating megid, just like you have to factor in a high hit Hell weapon. And penetrating level 30 megid seems like it'd win.

But... I'll admit I'm a bit shakey on how the Hell part is factored. Even with high hit, that only launches the Hell part, then there's a percent chance, after factoring resistances, of it killing, right? I think that point might need clarifying for the sake of this discussion, but eh.

[Jarek]

On 2005-04-05 14:38, Mixfortune wrote:

Wouldn't that be a reduced special, then...?
Meaning the chance divided between each bullet of a button press.
Unless it's an S-Rank mechgun, in which case it couldn't have hit %.




Just recently I've found a Hell vulcan with 60h, and have found the special to be almost worthless.

On the other hand, I did used to have Srank mechs
with hell added, and it wasn't half bad in epII.
Even with the lack of 60 extra ata, I still say the srank mechs are better, because its unreduced.


Edit~This is on a maxed ata RAmarl, by the way.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: psobsesser on 2005-04-05 15:12 ]</font>

[Evil_Althena8]

heh I have level 25 megid that's 27 thanks to wizard/techniques. I really need to find Devil/Techniques...damn wizards are eating up my slots

[Bu5ta]

Kef.
Hell Laser 50% HIT > j00. Kinda.

As far as Hell not being better than LVL30 Megid. DUH! But it is STILL effective and a great weapon, especially if you are playing more of a support RA.

I still say, and will ALWAYS say that Demons is the BEST special in the whole game, HANDS DOWN. So if Hell isn't working out too good for ya, I recommend trying to get some Demon's stuff.

[Hrith]

I'd say a 50% hit Demon's, Berserk or Charge Laser is better than 50% hit Hell Laser, much more consistent and reliable, for that matter.

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-04-05 15:51, Bu5ta wrote:
Kef.
Hell Laser 50% HIT > j00. Kinda.

As far as Hell not being better than LVL30 Megid. DUH! But it is STILL effective and a great weapon, especially if you are playing more of a support RA.

I still say, and will ALWAYS say that Demons is the BEST special in the whole game, HANDS DOWN. So if Hell isn't working out too good for ya, I recommend trying to get some Demon's stuff.



I would probably consider weapons like Zalure Needle and Frozen Shooter/Snow Queen better "support" weapons, even if they are perhaps overused. In a team game, those sorts of weapons would probably be more appreciated as they are more reliable and have excellent specials. Demon's I have had much experience with, so I can't really comment on that.

Not to stereotype, as all players and games turn out different, with different needs, but generally I would think that for the instant kill role (if one is needed), FO would still win with Megid, as after they S/D/J/Z or whatever, they can pull out the Megid for that role if it's needed, whereas Frozen Shooter and Snow Queen might need to be more frequently updated.

That's a factor as well... not just the effectiveness, but whether the class using it would be even more effective fulfilling a different role. If you're skilled enough to switch effectively between hell rifle, for example, and other weapons that are probably more "appreciated" (for example, hell rifling something that got Frozen), then by all means use it.

Not saying Hell weapons are completely useless or something, so don't think that's my argument (not saying you were, just for future reference). Just pointing out that there are more reliable and in turn useful options for a RA in team games.

[Hrith]

yes

[Bu5ta]

Hmmm... Yup. I was not saying 'INSTEAD OF', I meant in "ADDITION TO' whatever else you're using.

But I think you summed it up pretty well.