Extended firing range on Frozen Shooter Special

[TheOneHero]

During Uriko's SJS hunts, we came upon this discovery.

4th floor, I was shooting at the Meri's (first spawn where you have to warp to get to them) from the far left corner, near the gate. (close to the warp)

I noticed I couldn't hit the Meri's with my Normal or Hard attacks. I could only hit them with the Special.

Is it possible the the Special for FS gets an extended firing range than the normal FS attacks?

[Bawless]

if the cursor colour changes to whatever your special is set to, then yes it would be possible.

a dragons claw, special "foie" cursor colour, appears long before the normal/hard cursor colour appears.

if you know what i mean.

[Hamburger3000]

I did have a FS before and i realy didnt see a difference. Maybe I just didnt take the time to look at this.

[PJ]

ToH, I think the difference with the special/normal attacks on FS is that the special could go through the ground/wall, not extended range. Since, when you shot normally, it still went on an angle towards the Meris, but it didn't get through the ground/fence.

[Skorpius]

The Frozen Shooter does not have an extended Special range. I just tested this and there is no difference between all three attack ranges.

[Hrith]

ToH is right, there is, and it's not really new. Well, it had been discussed at Housoka.

FS special has extended range, radius, and can hit monsters before they completely spawn (last part annoys me).

[Fossil]

There is some kind of an extended range that I've noticed with it a few times. I think it just has to do with the fact the Frozen Shooters special has different properties than anything else and has a larger radius to do it's damage and effect.

[Sacred_One]

I Thought it would be a glitch.

[Skorpius]

There isn't. When I typed my reply, I was in Forest and using boxes to test the targeting range. The special does NOT have extended range, and if it did, it's so minor that it isn;t even relevant for itt o be considered in stratagy. I didn't see any "extended range", and I've used Frozen Shooter on my Rangers since I had obtained one far before I ever got online.

[Mixfortune]

Okay, I'll admit I don't have much experience with FS to form a "concrete" argument about how I have or haven't seen it work, but I'll use some part and see about combining them here... if this is incorrect in any way, let me know.

Frozen Shooter's special is an ice ball projectile, while the normal/hard shots are a regular green photon bullet. If FS's special does indeed have a larger radius than the normal shots (glancing blows would still register, count as hit, and freeze if this is the case). Let's say the FS special does have an increased radius of affect on the projectile itself.

Here's the normal/hard shot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/Mixfortune/PSO/FS.png

The box represents the complete flight of the projectile, provided it hits nothing (reaches maximum distance) The ball represents the bullet itself.

Here's the special shot, provided if the projectile does have increased radius of affect.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/Mixfortune/PSO/FS1.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/Mixfortune/PSO/FS2.png

On the second special shot picture, the extending blue lines show the increased radius of the projectile freezing affect. Here's where the extended range of the special would show up. The extended radius range of the special that points out straight from the path of the projectile would be the same distance as this "increased range" (circled in red).

Note I'm not saying whether FS has increased range on special or not... just trying to fit things together. If this is how it works, then chances are that Skorpius is quite correct in that the difference is minimal and is not worth the strategic value, but then again the point of the thread was about it existing in the first place or not, not necessarily it's usefullness. Technicalities, I suppose.

And again, IF this is the case, then there may be some lack or registration between the shot itself and the freeze radius concerning boxes... meaning, since boxes don't freeze, Skorpius, it might not work as a viable test target if the supposed increased range is just the increase radius of the freezing special. Try a lily or some other stationary target, to be sure.

EDIT: Also to reply to an earlier post, the targetting cursor suggestion you gave might not work in this case either, since it might not take the projectile radius into affect... but then again it might.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2005-04-11 00:14 ]</font>

[Skorpius]

The projectile has a larger impact radius, yes, but the targeting cursor doesn't take that into effect when showing you which attack can be used on what monster.

Does Snow Queen target everything the freeze projectile can hit? If not, then there's your answer. XP

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-04-11 00:53 ]</font>

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-04-11 00:51, Skorpius wrote:
The projectile has a larger impact radius, yes, but the targeting cursor doesn't take that into effect when showing you which attack can be used on what monster.

Does Snow Queen target everything the freeze projectile can hit? If not, then there's your answer. XP

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-04-11 00:53 ]</font>


Well, whichever, the thing about the targeting cursor was a side mention for me anyways, and could be irrelevant depending on how it was done.

Main point is whether the extra length provided by the radius of the special can "pull" itself to influence targets past the normal range of the normal/hard attack and freeze them. If I toss a rock, and then toss a rock with a grenade attached the same distance, chances are the grenade radius affect will reach out a bit and grab a bit more than just the rock (lame comparasion, I know, but helps with the point).

A possible reason why your tests might have been off (if it is off at all), is that if the radius affect is freeze only, and doesn't flag as damage (for whatever reason), then a box might not be affected by that. It could even possibly freeze an enemy outside of the targetting cursor range because of this (but if it doesn't, oh well), in which case the special would most likely have "increased range" over the normal/hard hit.

I guess really it all comes down to how someone would define increased range.

Either way, as has been said, it's not really very useable strategy wise... the increased range, if anything... you could probably just take an extra step or two and there you go. Besides... don't most only use the FS for the special anyways? Doesn't seem all too useful damage wise...

[Hrith]

The range is increased, Skorpius, in the sense that you can hit (and freeze) targets past what your cursor shows.

I's probably a very small boost in range, but I've had this happen to myself several times that my regular bullets wouldn't hit, but the special would -- especially in Tower, where most targets are static.

Mixfortune's explanation might be the answer, we should have invited him at Housoka >.>

[Vielka]

On 2005-04-11 03:21, Kef wrote:
The range is increased, Skorpius, in the sense that you can hit (and freeze) targets past what your cursor shows.

I's probably a very small boost in range, but I've had this happen to myself several times that my regular bullets wouldn't hit, but the special would -- especially in Tower, where most targets are static.

Mixfortune's explanation might be the answer, we should have invited him at Housoka >.>



skorp, try this test on some enemies instead of forest boxes.. Being a racast player, i can vouche on the special only having extended range... Further than yasminkov 9000 range.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vielka on 2005-04-11 04:16 ]</font>

[Skorpius]

I understand splash freeze. I already mentioned that, and recognized it. I also know that the technical range of Frozen Shooter, and it's special, is the same.

What you're trying to say is that Nug 2000 Bazooka would have Shot Range because it launches Rafoie :L

[Hrith]

Nope, because in the case of the Nug, the range extends after the bullet hits, in the case of the FS, it's before (or even if there's only one target, for that matter).

[Neith]

Well, I was in the game, and I watched this happen. ToH's standard shots fell short of the Meri's, whilst the freeze shot could impact them. True, 'splash damage' could be the cause, but surely that must count as extra range :S (even if it isn't much) I think the only way to determine this is to try it out in different areas (maybe with a FS and a SQ, just outta curiosity) if it is true, grats to ToH. Now help me find my SJS http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-04-11 05:27, Skorpius wrote:

What you're trying to say is that Nug 2000 Bazooka would have Shot Range because it launches Rafoie :L



I was actually leaning more towards FS being a different type of case.
This is probably slightly off topic, but does the NUG's rafoie activate at the end of the maximum projectile distance, even if it hits nothing?
FS special could travel it's maximum distance hitting nothing, yet still hit something (again, some technicalities there), thus some might consider that extended range... personally I think it doesn't even really matter that much.
If the NUG shoots, then hits something, then disappears and causes a rafoie at the target point, that's something slightly different.

In some cases, maybe some would consider NUG a special range, but that goes back to how some would interpret what "extended range" means.

[Skorpius]

Still, this is so pointless and trivial. The "extended range" isn't even true range, just an effect of the wider area that the special can hit. This is purely obvious when you use a Frozen Shooter, but it isn't "range", in the game's technical term. The targeting triangles don't appear.

You shouldn't be trying to explain it to me. I know Frozen Shooter has splash freeze on it's firing range, but it's technical range isn't different from its normal shots. That was my point.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-04-11 14:42 ]</font>

[Hrith]

No, Mix, Nug2000-Bazooka, Iron Faust and Gi Gue Bazooka bullets only explode if they hit a target or a wall.

We just tried this with Auracom and Ryna, I was out of the FS "green" bullets' range, and the special could hit me, the difference in range is a good step.

Not vital, still good info.

[Ryna]

Thanks to Kef and Auracom for volunteering to be targets. Here are the videos:

Frozen Shooter/Snow Queen test:
http://www.azure-skies.net/psow/fssqtest.avi

Nug demonstration:
http://www.azure-skies.net/psow/nug.avi

As you can see from the first video, the Frozen Shooter special hits one step beyond the Shooter's normal shot. The Snow Queen's normal and special attacks have the same range as the Frozen Shooter's special.

Also, you can see that the Nug does not blow up when it reaches the end of its normal range.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryna on 2005-04-11 16:28 ]</font>

[Mixfortune]

On 2005-04-11 15:26, Kef wrote:
No, Mix, Nug2000-Bazooka, Iron Faust and Gi Gue Bazooka bullets only explode if they hit a target or a wall.



That's what I meant.
Thanks for the info.

[Ryna]

Videos have been posted. You'll need the XVid codec to be able to view them. If that doesn't work, use something like Media Player Classic to view them.

[Skorpius]

Do the targeting cursors appear? I don't feel like downloading the video and watching.

[Fossil]

Who cares if it's not true extended range. The FS special still gives you a farther reach with a lot of enemies in the game. Especially online. I notice it all the time. I don't know how you can't.

[Skorpius]

There's also the De-sychronization/Lag effect. Was that also taken into account for these tests?

[Hrith]

Yes, when I did the tests for Housoka, I was offline, anyway.

Ryna had this idea to do battle mode and hit Auracom's HUnewearl (he's evil, like that), but characters location don't lag/de-synchronize, monsters location do, not characters or items.

Ryna tried it on me before making the movie where he tests it on Auracom. Ryna was standing still, I was gradually moving away from him while he was shooting me with the FS regular bullets, when I was out of range of the rifle, I said "I'm safe", he tried the special, it froze me.

The rest, Ryna already explained.

[Ryna]

On 2005-04-11 22:26, Skorpius wrote:
Do the targeting cursors appear? I don't feel like downloading the video and watching.


The target cursor only appeared while Kef and Aura were in rifle range. When they were in rifle range, I could hit them with the FS/SQ's normal and special attack. When they took one step outside rifle range, the cursor disappeared. At that point, only the FS's special and SQ's normal/special would hit.

[Skorpius]

Kef: Yes, character and item locations do de-synch quite frequently, but they re-synch after some time.

Ryna: That was my entire point the whole time. Thank you.

[Thalui89]

After reading this topic i decided to carry out this test with noin (my ramarl). My testing prooved to agree with kefs story, so i'm sorry skorpius it appears that your theory is flawed, try testing this FACT on enemies not boxes. So Kef it appears that once again you are correct.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Thalui89 on 2005-04-12 11:37 ]</font>

[Ryna]

On 2005-04-11 23:41, Fossil wrote:
Who cares if it's not true extended range. The FS special still gives you a farther reach with a lot of enemies in the game. Especially online. I notice it all the time. I don't know how you can't.


The targeting cursor can lie. Just watch the Nug video I made if you want to see that in action. The targeting cursor goes beyond what the Nug missile can actually hit. In the shooter's case, the special hits just a little bit beyond what the cursor says you can. We are just quantifying how much farther it actually hits.

[Thalui89]

Exactly, sometimes the cursor can be bad with certain things, another example of a cursor glitch is: i have resta set as the b button, but yet if i followed what the cursor says i should use it would tell me to use resta on an enemy. i know this isnt exactly a good example but its still a glitch, or maybe its just kireek talking crap who knows?! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Skorpius]

On 2005-04-12 11:35, Thalui89 wrote:
After reading this topic i decided to carry out this test with noin (my ramarl). My testing prooved to agree with kefs story, so i'm sorry skorpius it appears that your theory is flawed, try testing this FACT on enemies not boxes. So Kef it appears that once again you are correct.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Thalui89 on 2005-04-12 11:37 ]</font>

I don't have a theory. How about you read my posts instead of trying to act like you have an edge over me? The targeting cursor doesn;t appear, thus the rifle doesn't have extended "Range" in the technical term. That was my whole point.

The special on Demonic Fork and Ancient Saber have extended Range, and other items like Plantain Huge Fan have extended Range, but Frozen Shooter does not. The special may be able to clip other enemies and freeze multiples (might be lag) but it doesn;t have extended "Range".

[Neith]

The FS target cursor may not APPEAR, but the point of this thread is to find the answer as to whether the FS has extended range with the special, NOT whether the target lock appears. Since there is video footage, and claims of the special going further, I can't see why people refuse to see this. Kef, Ryna, Auracom, TheOneHero; these people have all tested the theory and found that there is a very slight range increase on the special attack. Whether the difference is usable in a fight or whether the cursor appears was not the initial question. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2005-04-12 12:11 ]</font>

[Thalui89]

U believe that the frozen shooter does not have an extended range! that IS a THEORY. The frozen shooter DOES have extended range just not in the form of some stupid triangles, it still hits further than rifle range, and in this case i do have an edge over you because kef and the others have both PROOVED that you can hit further than rifle range. I have also tested it. But if you dont believe what i'm saying because you believe you are "better" than me on this topic then tell me this, what exactly is the frozen shooter added range called if its not extended range?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Thalui89 on 2005-04-12 12:13 ]</font>

[Skorpius]

Again, you fail to read.
I'm not arguing with you anymore until you read my posts correctly.

[Thalui89]

i do, but you cant understand what were telling you, never mind eh?

[Neith]

Meh, think we should let this one rest, we al know it'll just get locked if it keeps going...

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

[Thalui89]

Yes lets just drop it, lets all go away thinking what we think. Skorpuis believes he is correct thats up to him, but i tested it for my own benefit and i know what it does. End of this little topic.

[Ryna]

I believe the problem we are having here arises over how to define "extended range". Skorpius believes that the Frozen Shooter's special technically has rifle range and that the extra range is a result of splash damage. It seems that Thalui89 believes that that extra splash damage range should be counted as "extended range". This is really just a matter of arguing over semantics. I believe we can all agree that the Frozen Shooter's special hits a little bit beyond what you can see on the rifle range cursor.

[Thalui89]

Yes thankyou for settling that one ryna. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif your a good peace keeper http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Fossil]

The targeting cursor can lie. Just watch the Nug video I made if you want to see that in action. The targeting cursor goes beyond what the Nug missile can actually hit. In the shooter's case, the special hits just a little bit beyond what the cursor says you can. We are just quantifying how much farther it actually hits.

I watched the video after I posted. I know what you mean and I actually never noticed that with anything besides the FS. I've tried a few times with the Gi-Gue's but it never hit the target beyond what it's range was for me. The Nug is impressive though. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

I define FS "extra" range as being really a Special attack splash damage reason. The example someone posted(forgot username) was a good one.