Montague created himself? WTF? [Archive]

NeoLon

Apr 29, 2005, 10:46 PM

On the US Blue Burst site, on this (http://psobb.com/world/team.php) page it says:

And so, renowned and esteemed scientists began research on this energy signature, thinking that it could shed some light into unlocking the secrets of Photon Energy. The first result was the joint creation of the two genius scientists Professor Osto Hyle and Professor Jean-Carlo Montague: the Mag. That was only a waypoint in their research, however: they continued their research, and began to develop and create things like Androids, and the artificial lifeforms known as Newmans.
If Montague is a newman himself than how was he able to create newmans since they had to exist before hand for him to be able to exist? My brain hurts...

Stormsworder

Apr 29, 2005, 10:54 PM

*blinks* Okay... That's pretty dang weird. Maybe they decided to add that in to make it sound good, but ended up making a plothole.

NeoLon

Apr 29, 2005, 10:57 PM

PSO is so full of paradoxes already, did they really need another one? >.<

Edit: Grammar XP

[ This Message was edited by: NeoLon on 2005-04-29 20:57 ]

EphekZ

Apr 29, 2005, 11:02 PM

Shadowpawn

Apr 29, 2005, 11:09 PM

It's a brain fart on ST's behalf. It's best to ignore that...or you could look at it this way and say that the Jean we know is the product of the first experiment , after all newmans are just humans with biomonster DNA spliced in. Who's to say that he didn't just use himself as an experiment.

However, I say we all agree that Sega fucked up. Mmkay?

Rianna_Type1

Apr 29, 2005, 11:10 PM

Maybe Dr. Montague was really a FOmar! But, back in the day, he got put into the quests as a FOnewm 'cuz FOmar wasn't created yet!

Perhaps Sonic Team was too lazy to change his model and just left him a Newman. Haha, I don't know.

You know, it could be similar to the HUnewearl who uses the rifle in that quest you guys were talking about earlier. They didn't change her to a RAmarl, did they?

Haha.

Shadowpawn

Apr 29, 2005, 11:25 PM

On 2005-04-29 21:10, Rianna_Type1 wrote:
Maybe Dr. Montague was really a FOmar! But, back in the day, he got put into the quests as a FOnewm 'cuz FOmar wasn't created yet!

Perhaps Sonic Team was too lazy to change his model and just left him a Newman. Haha, I don't know.

You know, it could be similar to the HUnewearl who uses the rifle in that quest you guys were talking about earlier. They didn't change her to a RAmarl, did they?

Haha.

By your logic, Zoke's a HUmar then...and Kireek's a FO.

[ This Message was edited by: Shadowpawn on 2005-04-29 21:25 ]

Stormsworder

Apr 29, 2005, 11:27 PM

Why would Kireek be a FO though? I don't see why he would be considered that if the reasoning is true.

Shadowpawn

Apr 29, 2005, 11:30 PM

On 2005-04-29 21:27, Stormsworder wrote:
Why would Kireek be a FO though? I don't see why he would be considered that if the reasoning is true.

Kireek has a FOrce field equipped (you can't tell normally), this is a sheild reserved for FO users (and if I'm correct, was removed from the game.)

[ This Message was edited by: Shadowpawn on 2005-04-29 21:31 ]

Zarode

Apr 29, 2005, 11:34 PM

See, the thing is. They were already being made. He just happen to take intrest and started to make more. With Androids, he's the one that created the personality chip, or more like modified the original...

King_Rappy

Apr 30, 2005, 12:06 AM

"You can't be my boss! I'm my own boss! I created myself!!"

...But yeah, I think it's either a brainfart as mentioned above, or he simply made MORE newmans.

darkholemind

Apr 30, 2005, 01:57 AM

It's just ST being their usual ass-holish selves, trying to confuse us again........ -_-;;;

Excellence

Apr 30, 2005, 02:40 AM

On 2005-04-29 23:57, darkholemind wrote:
It's just ST being their usual ass-holish selves, trying to confuse us again........ -_-;;;

lol

Nai_Calus

Apr 30, 2005, 07:18 AM

And this is why I treat any information from that site as cracked-out bullshit at BEST, and blatantly false garbage at normal times. XP

They can't even get their timeline to agree with the IN-GAME TEXT, for the love of Rati. -_-;

CAstra

Apr 30, 2005, 07:33 AM

What the text is talking about is when Montague and that other professor created a MAG, not themselves. The paragraph is just written badly, so it misleads you to think that Montague created himself.

-CAstra

Jason

Apr 30, 2005, 09:46 AM

On 2005-04-30 05:33, CAstra wrote:
What the text is talking about is when Montague and that other professor created a MAG, not themselves. The paragraph is just written badly, so it misleads you to think that Montague created himself.

-CAstra

Read the last sentence. Written badly? Doesn't seem like so to me.

ZodiacNKnight

Apr 30, 2005, 12:40 PM

On 2005-04-29 20:46, NeoLon wrote:
On the US Blue Burst site, on this (http://psobb.com/world/team.php) page it says:

And so, renowned and esteemed scientists began research on this energy signature, thinking that it could shed some light into unlocking the secrets of Photon Energy. The first result was the joint creation of the two genius scientists Professor Osto Hyle and Professor Jean-Carlo Montague: the Mag. That was only a waypoint in their research, however: they continued their research, and began to develop and create things like Androids, and the artificial lifeforms known as Newmans.
If Montague is a newman himself than how was he able to create newmans since they had to exist before hand for him to be able to exist? My brain hurts...

I was going through that also and I caught it too. It didn't seem to make much sense to me either...

ST attempted to create plot lines and tired to tie up the story as a whole. They want the player/reader to develop and understand the story from EP1 to EP4 while they move along. But doing this has caused problems and paradoxes. And has left a lot of situations where the player/reader has to presume events. Although plot presuming is good for like mysterious events and underlevel storylines, but to much of it can ruin a good story.

Sadly the same exact problem occurred with Squaresoft trying to tie Chrono Trigger (http://www.chrono-trigger.com/index.php) with Chrono Cross (http://www.square-enix-usa.com/games/CC/).
The hidden storylines and paradoxes caused a very complicated and confusing story... And the game got condemned for it...

[ This Message was edited by: ZodiacNKnight on 2005-04-30 11:37 ]

adamgnome104

Apr 30, 2005, 03:17 PM

He didn't creat Newmans

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ps/ps2/graphics/people/nei.jpg

This is the first Newman.

That paragraph means that they developed a Mag. :/ You know, Mags, PHOTON blast, PHOTON energy, it means that him and the other scientist created mags.

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif END SPECULATIONZORZ
(Although people may have different opionioinzorz 2!!11)

[ This Message was edited by: adamgnome104 on 2005-04-30 13:18 ]

Shadowpawn

Apr 30, 2005, 04:36 PM

On 2005-04-30 13:17, adamgnome104 wrote:

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ps/ps2/graphics/people/nei.jpg

Look, it's Nei!

Ryna

Apr 30, 2005, 05:38 PM

On 2005-04-30 13:17, adamgnome104 wrote:
He didn't creat Newmans

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ps/ps2/graphics/people/nei.jpg

This is the first Newman.

Are the previous Phantasy Star games in the same continuity as PSO? If not, then Nei shouldn't be considered to be the first newman in the PSO universe.

Jason

Apr 30, 2005, 05:43 PM

On 2005-04-30 15:38, Ryna wrote:
Are the previous Phantasy Star games in the same continuity as PSO? If not, then Nei shouldn't be considered to be the first newman in the PSO universe.

Well, there's a Nei's Claw. O.o;

Ryna

Apr 30, 2005, 05:47 PM

On 2005-04-30 15:43, Jason wrote:

On 2005-04-30 15:38, Ryna wrote:
Are the previous Phantasy Star games in the same continuity as PSO? If not, then Nei shouldn't be considered to be the first newman in the PSO universe.

Well, there's a Nei's Claw. O.o;

There is also the Rika's Claw.

The Phantasy Star games might just be stories to the inhabitants of the PSO universe.

AYY-BEE-CEE

Apr 30, 2005, 05:56 PM

And so, renowned and esteemed scientists began research on this energy signature, thinking that it could shed some light into unlocking the secrets of Photon Energy. The first result was the joint creation of [by] the two genius scientists Professor Osto Hyle and Professor Jean-Carlo Montague: the Mag. That was only a waypoint in their research, however: they continued their research, and began to develop and create things like Androids, and the artificial lifeforms known as Newmans.

ZodiacNKnight

Apr 30, 2005, 06:35 PM

Began to develop and create things like Androids, and the artificial lifeforms known as Newmans.

The two scientists are creating mags for everyone.
They did not create androids and newmans.

Basiaclly it's saying that they are creating a little evolutionary robot. (MAG)

The MAG is robotic like a Android and it has artificial life like a Newman.

It should be worded like this:

And so, renowned and esteemed scientists began research on this energy signature, thinking that it could shed some light into unlocking the secrets of Photon Energy. The first result was the joint creation of the two genius scientists Professor Osto Hyle and Professor Jean-Carlo Montague: That was only a waypoint in their research, however: they continued their research, and began to develop and create MAGS: A robot which has the characteristics of an Android but functions with an artificial life of a newman.

[ This Message was edited by: ZodiacNKnight on 2005-04-30 16:55 ]

Mixfortune

Apr 30, 2005, 07:35 PM

On 2005-04-30 15:47, Ryna wrote:

On 2005-04-30 15:43, Jason wrote:

On 2005-04-30 15:38, Ryna wrote:
Are the previous Phantasy Star games in the same continuity as PSO? If not, then Nei shouldn't be considered to be the first newman in the PSO universe.

Well, there's a Nei's Claw. O.o;

There is also the Rika's Claw.

The Phantasy Star games might just be stories to the inhabitants of the PSO universe.

That'd be messed up if Dark Falz/Force was in their stories and yet really existed... unless... it's not Dark Falz/Force at all! Oh snap!

But uhhh seriously, and back on topic...

On 2005-04-30 16:35, ZodiacNKnight wrote:

Began to develop and create things like Androids, and the artificial lifeforms known as Newmans.

The two scientists are creating mags for everyone.
They did not create androids and newmans.

Basiaclly it's saying that they are creating a little evolutionary robot. (MAG)

The MAG is robotic like a Android and it has artificial life like a Newman.

It should be worded like this:

And so, renowned and esteemed scientists began research on this energy signature, thinking that it could shed some light into unlocking the secrets of Photon Energy. The first result was the joint creation of the two genius scientists Professor Osto Hyle and Professor Jean-Carlo Montague: That was only a waypoint in their research, however: they continued their research, and began to develop and create MAGS: A robot which has the characteristics of an Android but functions with an artificial life of a newman.

[ This Message was edited by: ZodiacNKnight on 2005-04-30 16:55 ]

How are we to know what they meant to say? It's entirely possible they said what they meant to say, and yet so obviously messed up, whether in continuity or wording. Yet... the "translation" of the wording you gave it nearly completely different than the original context.

Now, if you stated something like "like Androids and newmans means Sinows and Del-creatures" well... that might work.

Note, from the original text, that they went to develop and create Androids and newmans. See the order they're given? Develop then create... either more ambiguous wording from ST, or implying that just because they created some Androids and newmans, does not mean they created ALL androids and newmans. They just created some, and expanded upon the current ones as they did so.

Basically, they created more advanced androids and newmans.

For the most part though, it's just crappy ambiguous wording, and given the other oh so obvious plotholes, flaws, and contradictions... it really doesn't matter, and has reached beyond of point of making sense (outside of something lame like multiple dimensional time-space hyper warp shift drive fluctuators).

Ryna

Apr 30, 2005, 07:58 PM

On 2005-04-30 17:35, Mixfortune wrote:

On 2005-04-30 15:47, Ryna wrote:
There is also the Rika's Claw.

The Phantasy Star games might just be stories to the inhabitants of the PSO universe.

That'd be messed up if Dark Falz/Force was in their stories and yet really existed... unless... it's not Dark Falz/Force at all! Oh snap!

That would be called irony and make for an interesting story.

But uhhh seriously, and back on topic...

The issue of who was the first newman is on-topic since we are trying to figure out who created who.

Mixfortune

Apr 30, 2005, 08:09 PM

On 2005-04-30 17:58, Ryna wrote:

On 2005-04-30 17:35, Mixfortune wrote:

On 2005-04-30 15:47, Ryna wrote:
There is also the Rika's Claw.

The Phantasy Star games might just be stories to the inhabitants of the PSO universe.

That'd be messed up if Dark Falz/Force was in their stories and yet really existed... unless... it's not Dark Falz/Force at all! Oh snap!

That would be called irony and make for an interesting story.

But uhhh seriously, and back on topic...

The issue of who was the first newman is on-topic since we are trying to figure out who created who.

I meant for my post to get back on topic, as in, off of Falz.

Wouldn't necessarily be irony either... it'd be more like Rico giving it the name Dark Falz because what she researched reminded her of such stories, and as such named it that herself (provided the hypothetical situation of the PS games being PSO stories) or, the stories were made after the defeat of Dark Falz... which still wouldn't explain items that co-exist during the PSO game, such as Rika's Claw, Psycho Wand, etc.

This is a lame comparasion I'm going to make here, but it's fairly true, if you know what I'm talking about...

Think of PSO to PS like the DBZ movies are to DBZ. They co-exist, but the timelines of the movies are so out of whack with the actual series (people existing before so-and-so learned such a move when they appeared after such-and-such a time in the series)

And, Ryna, I'm not saying it's not possible. It's entirely possible, but that'd return to my point about it all turning out to be a rather lame cop-out, for lack of ST actually forming a decent story for PSO... which is what this is about in the end anyways.

Ryna

Apr 30, 2005, 08:34 PM

On 2005-04-30 18:09, Mixfortune wrote:
Wouldn't necessarily be irony either... it'd be more like Rico giving it the name Dark Falz because what she researched reminded her of such stories, and as such named it that herself (provided the hypothetical situation of the PS games being PSO stories) or, the stories were made after the defeat of Dark Falz... which still wouldn't explain items that co-exist during the PSO game, such as Rika's Claw, Psycho Wand, etc.

I meant irony in the sense that Dark Falz was defeated in every previous version of the game, but was able to defeat Rico. If she had heard of Falz and given the monster that name, it is reasonable to believe that she thought she could beat it.

As for items like the Psycho Wand/Rika's Claw/etc, those items were unique in previous versions of the game because only one could exist at a time. In the PSO universe, you can have a large number of the same item existing at one time. One way of explaining this is that people would name powerful weapon classes after legendary items from the past.

And, Ryna, I'm not saying it's not possible. It's entirely possible, but that'd return to my point about it all turning out to be a rather lame cop-out, for lack of ST actually forming a decent story for PSO... which is what this is about in the end anyways.

I'll agree with you that the website is full of errors and that it is difficult/impossible to discern what the actual meaning behind that paragraph is. Consequently, if Sonic Team is unable to create a comprehensible storyline, it is our job to make one.

Solstis

Apr 30, 2005, 08:46 PM

I'm sorry, but if PSO is a continuation of the Phantasy Star games... I quit.

Seriously. I would be forced to give up on Sonic Team completely. Do they actually screen the writers before hiring them?

Mixfortune

Apr 30, 2005, 08:51 PM

Right, I thought at first you meant irony as in it was actually Dark Falz from the stories, sorry for misreading.

The weapons thing, yeah, I took that into consideration as well (about how powerful weapons could be made and named after the fictional weapons in their stories).

Not bashing your ideas or explanations, but if it was indeed thought out that way, it seems too much like FFX's story... bleh.

I half agree about the holes and such leaving us to make our own stories to fill in the gaps, but most things that do that at least try and stay consistent. I half agree because there's some parts I rather disagree with...

I agree it's nice and good to theorize and such, but I'd rather not have it so we form the excuses on ST's behalf, and then it end up turning into some weird sense of canon or anything. I disagree, however, that's it's really anything like our job to make it... yes open ended stories are fun to work with to make you think, but it's ST's job to make a comprehensive setting, at the least. They had to down fairly well when they were more vague about things. But now they're trying to add to it and become more specific, while forgetting what they had before.

It's like if someone made a buggy game, but instead of fixing the bugs right away, to please the fans added more stuff in the meantime. Well, they can fix some of the bugs, but they still have new ones, and add stuff on top of that... in the end you have an overly complex system that still has bugs in the very lowest levels that everything is based on. Well, at that point, it makes it much harder to fix anything.

I would say they should just retool the whole story and such, but there's little need, what with PSU coming out, they can make a whole new story from scratch if they so desired. ST probably made a "correct" move in being choppy and quick with the storyline, not bothering to fix contradictions, because it really doesn't matter as much. I really don't care about PSO's inconsistencies themselves, just ST's ability to make a decent story.

So with that... I'd say... if it's our job to make the story, we should make fanfics. PSO's inconsistencies and such make almost anything believable now, since there's little to no canon left. For fanficcers, this is a good thing. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif As a player, I hope they have their story BEFORE they make the game, rather than make the game and try to sew the story together afterwards.

[ This Message was edited by: Mixfortune on 2005-04-30 18:53 ]

Ryna

Apr 30, 2005, 09:11 PM

On 2005-04-30 18:51, Mixfortune wrote:
I would say they should just retool the whole story and such, but there's little need, what with PSU coming out, they can make a whole new story from scratch if they so desired. ST probably made a "correct" move in being choppy and quick with the storyline, not bothering to fix contradictions, because it really doesn't matter as much. I really don't care about PSO's inconsistencies themselves, just ST's ability to make a decent story.

So with that... I'd say... if it's our job to make the story, we should make fanfics. PSO's inconsistencies and such make almost anything believable now, since there's little to no canon left. For fanficcers, this is a good thing. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif As a player, I hope they have their story BEFORE they make the game, rather than make the game and try to sew the story together afterwards.

I think the problem with the PSO story is that has compounded on top of itself after four seperate versions of the game. Sonic Team has tried to insert new, interesting events into the PSO chronology to serve as backstories for the sequels. This becomes apparent in the episode 3 storyline where ST made a half-hearted attempt to tie that game into the Episode 1&2 story. I can just imagine the episode 3 story writers sitting around, trying to come up with ideas for episode 3 backstory.

Writer 1: Yeah, we can say that Pioneer 2 developed CARD technology.
Writer 2: Where did it come from though and why didn't it exist only a few years before?
Writer 1: We can it was developed by a secret government agency over several years!
Writer 2: Yeah! That might work.

For me, the Episode 3 storyline just didn't work well as an extension of Episode 1&2. Nevertheless, we have to accept it as canon and try to fill in the holes as best as we can. Those kinds of holes make excellent fodder for fan fiction.

Trying to set Blue Burst in between all this mess can only cause further problems. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

As for your comment Solstis, I am of the opinion that PSO is set in a different universe than the original games. I believe that was confirmed at some point by someone on Sonic Team (don't quote me as a source on that).

Mixfortune

Apr 30, 2005, 09:18 PM

On 2005-04-30 19:11, Ryna wrote:

I think the problem with the PSO story is that has compounded on top of itself after four seperate versions of the game. Sonic Team has tried to insert new, interesting events into the PSO chronology to serve as backstories for the sequels. This becomes apparent in the episode 3 storyline where ST made a half-hearted attempt to tie that game into the Episode 1&2 story. I can just imagine the episode 3 story writers sitting around, trying to come up with ideas for episode 3 backstory.

Writer 1: Yeah, we can say that Pioneer 2 developed CARD technology.
Writer 2: Where did it come from though and why didn't it exist only a few years before?
Writer 1: We can it was developed by a secret government agency over several years!
Writer 2: Yeah! That might work.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at with the buggy game analogy (there's a specific place that makes a great example for this, but I'll leave it unnamed). They build on top of it without fixing the basic problems. The more they build, the more complex those same basic problems become to fix. It's like a kid getting caught in a string of his own lies, so continues to lie. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

For me, the Episode 3 storyline just didn't work well as an extension of Episode 1&2. Nevertheless, we have to accept it as canon and try to fill in the holes as best as we can. Those kinds of holes make excellent fodder for fan fiction.

Yeah, I'm fine with excepting things as canon, no matter how "un-canon-like" they may seem to be. Just saying we, as players, want to be careful and know where to draw the line between canon and theories.

Trying to set Blue Burst in between all this mess can only cause further problems. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Good ol' ST http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

As for your comment Solstis, I am of the opinion that PSO is set in a different universe than the original games. I believe that was confirmed at some point by someone on Sonic Team (don't quote me as a source on that).

I do recall seeing this as well. It was meant to be treated as a different series of games. Personally, I'm fine if PSO doesn't mesh with PS. It's PSO meshing with itself that gave me more concern.

Oh well.

Ryna

Apr 30, 2005, 09:41 PM

On 2005-04-30 19:18, Mixfortune wrote:
I do recall seeing this as well. It was meant to be treated as a different series of games. Personally, I'm fine if PSO doesn't mesh with PS. It's PSO meshing with itself that gave me more concern.

Oh well.

Since we are talking about canon, should we accept the text on the website as canon or as a confused translation? I'm inclined to treat it as a confused translation and treat the in-game events as canon.

Mixfortune

Apr 30, 2005, 09:47 PM

On 2005-04-30 19:41, Ryna wrote:

Since we are talking about canon, should we accept the text on the website as canon or as a confused translation? I'm inclined to treat it as a confused translation and treat the in-game events as canon.

I'm willing to agree with that. The website isn't necessarily the game itself, and even if the game can have "confused translations", it'd end more more canon worthy than a site's interpretation, even if it's the BB site...

But, that could change depending on how the site ends up, as well. Probably best to give it more time.

Just wondering though, if by "we" you meant us as the players, or the site. Not much difference I'll admit, but good to know when considering this.

Nai_Calus

Apr 30, 2005, 09:56 PM

Considering that the NA PSOBB site is a direct translation of the JP PSOBB site, and that the same errors seem to be present there, we can safely discount the website and everything it says. XP

I refuse to acknowledge Ep3 as canon. It's like they made up characters, and then tried to twist the story to fit them. Ep3 IS a fanfic, as far as I'm concerned. You can take it as canon for it's own events, but the utter bullshit that got made up concerning the Ep1&2 storylines(When they were mentioned at all)... No. Just... No. X_x;

Not that I really follow even the established continuity in my fic. What the hell, ST fucks up the storyline, so can I, damn it. XD

Ryna

Apr 30, 2005, 10:02 PM

On 2005-04-30 19:47, Mixfortune wrote:

On 2005-04-30 19:41, Ryna wrote:

Since we are talking about canon, should we accept the text on the website as canon or as a confused translation? I'm inclined to treat it as a confused translation and treat the in-game events as canon.

I'm willing to agree with that. The website isn't necessarily the game itself, and even if the game can have "confused translations", it'd end more more canon worthy than a site's interpretation, even if it's the BB site...

But, that could change depending on how the site ends up, as well. Probably best to give it more time.

Just wondering though, if by "we" you meant us as the players, or the site. Not much difference I'll admit, but good to know when considering this.

In that context, I was referring to you and I. However, it should be taken to mean the "players of PSO."

The one complicating factor about determining whether something is canon or not is if the information comes from an official source. In this particular case, it does.

I agree that it might be best to way and see if they will revise the site.

darkholemind

May 1, 2005, 12:52 AM

On 2005-04-30 19:56, Ian-KunX wrote:
Considering that the NA PSOBB site is a direct translation of the JP PSOBB site, and that the same errors seem to be present there, we can safely discount the website and everything it says. XP

I refuse to acknowledge Ep3 as canon. It's like they made up characters, and then tried to twist the story to fit them. Ep3 IS a fanfic, as far as I'm concerned. You can take it as canon for it's own events, but the utter bullshit that got made up concerning the Ep1&2 storylines(When they were mentioned at all)... No. Just... No. X_x;

Not that I really follow even the established continuity in my fic. What the hell, ST fucks up the storyline, so can I, damn it. XD

And all of us could write a better story than they, drunk and half conscious at the same time.

Think about in EP1 where they say the Mags are given as a tradition, when the hell did they create them? If the Hunters were established by Rico, on Ragol, and Montague was on Pioneer2,Osto on Pioneer1 that means they worked together ***** lightyears apart. Then started training Hunters on Pioneer2 just to give them Mags.......WTF?

They just need to hire us to make stories for them.....

Blitzkommando

May 1, 2005, 01:51 AM

Think of the PSO series as a low B movie series. Each movie has a different writer (sometimes multiple in the same movie), and the only story that stays in context with itself is the primary plotline, in this case, Pioneer 1 is blown up on Ragol, Pioneer 2 comes in unknowingly into the resultant mess, Hunters are sent to clean up said mess, Hunters return to Pioneer 2 to tell what the mess was and how they cleaned it up. Five years is a bit of time to remember a whole storyline and all the little nuances of it. Hell, I have a hard time remembering what I was writing last week. ST is made up of fallable humans, though a bit more so than others likely, but still... Cannot hold them to remember everything over 5 years (well more than 5 really including development).

As for PS and PSO being part of the same reality... Well, I believe that is possible. As to whether the PS series is considered a story to the peoples of PSO... I dunno, Rappys seem to be pretty consistant as do the species. And as for weapons... Things like Sange, Yasha, and Orotiagito should, according to the storyline, have only one in existance, but more than one exists. Afterall, how can Agito 1975 be the "real thing" if one can have more than one? I just lend this to the rare system within PSO, developed simply for the online aspect. It wouldn't exactly be fair if only one person in the world could own all of those items. Basically, some parts of the story are 'distorted' because of something that is inexcapable, even though it is outside the storyline, the player. It is because of the players that PSO has some very... quirky aspects. (If we want to get technical RAmarl, HUcaseal, and FOmar screw up the storyline a fair ammount based on the DC setup)

darkholemind

May 1, 2005, 02:12 AM

That's right, they didn't have those back then. But it's not like they're writing a masterpiece of fantasy like Terry Goodkind, they just have to keep track of wtf they're telling us. I realize that as quests are added things may get slightly distorted, but not to the extent they are currently, where we literally have 80 page threads on theories explaining this and that, Sonic Team probably just threw it in there to fill in their arch of a 'story' without any real consideration to what the future consequences would be. (i.e. The US's Blue Burst site trying to explain this chaos of a story, and still screwing it up.)

Rubesahl

May 1, 2005, 09:55 AM

On 2005-04-30 19:41, Ryna wrote:

On 2005-04-30 19:18, Mixfortune wrote:
I do recall seeing this as well. It was meant to be treated as a different series of games. Personally, I'm fine if PSO doesn't mesh with PS. It's PSO meshing with itself that gave me more concern.

Oh well.

Since we are talking about canon, should we accept the text on the website as canon or as a confused translation? I'm inclined to treat it as a confused translation and treat the in-game events as canon.

Precisely, after all the US PSOBB site is just a modified version of the JPN site. Something which I find quite cool http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif Plus try to hold back insulting ST -__-;; I hate ppl that condemn the game developers to death while loving the game at the same time http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Give them a break

[ This Message was edited by: Rubesahl on 2005-05-01 07:57 ]

Ryna

May 1, 2005, 10:10 AM

On 2005-05-01 07:55, Rubesahl wrote:
Plus try to hold back insulting ST -__-;; I hate ppl that condemn the game developers to death while loving the game at the same time http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Give them a break

Give them a break? Sonic Team has had five years to try to develop a coherent storyline. As a paying customer since V2, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a compelling storyline that makes some sense and makes the gameplay more interesting.

Jack

May 2, 2005, 03:00 PM

It could well be that humans can be genetically altered to become newmans in a similar way to Naturals becoming Co-ordinators in Gundam SEED.

adamgnome104

May 2, 2005, 03:07 PM

Here's my opinion/rant on the whole PS to PSO thing, and hell, even PSU. o.O

Phantasy Star, what usually happens, every 1000 years Dark Falz comes, some random here pwnzorz it on Motavia, Dezorius and Palma. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Simlar gameplay.

In Phantasy Star Online, it wasn't orginally planned ot be a PS game, so different gameplay. In my opinion, this takes place way after the old games. The people of Algol on one millienia, stuffed Dark Falz in a spaceship and it landed on Ragol, where the Coral people were unfortunatly headed. BLHALBHALH All that confuses stuff happens that everyone gets confused about. There are also those old random referances to the old game,right down the cake store. There are also some old weapons. Muttz Dittz Poumn...the three planets are spelt wrong in yet another game. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

PSU, is based heavily on the old games, but with a similar gameplay style as PSO. There are probably going to be random referances to old games, and it's unlikely the new badguy thing is from the old games.
It's based on the old games for some things, just not direct referances and plot.

OMGZ AND IT WAS TEH TYPOZ IN DA PARAGRAPHZORZ! O.o

May 2, 2005, 03:35 PM

It wasn't coincidence.

I thought the Coral people went to Ragol (Although, unknown to the people on the Pioneers) because when they sent out the un-manned probes, they found a mysterious power source on Ragol aka the D-Cells, which we all know is caused by Dark Falz.

_Tek_

May 22, 2005, 09:21 PM

WEll its obvious, He was an Oldmen, so he created the Newmen. Its all so simple.

Ryna

May 22, 2005, 09:45 PM

On 2005-05-22 19:21, _Tek_ wrote:
WEll its obvious, He was an Oldmen, so he created the Newmen. Its all so simple.

Please don't bump topics that have slipped off the first page. -.-;

EphekZ

May 22, 2005, 09:53 PM

On 2005-05-22 19:21, _Tek_ wrote:
WEll its obvious, He was an Oldmen, so he created the Newmen. Its all so simple.

nice sig thar buddy

NOHspeak

May 23, 2005, 07:00 AM

I think it's possible the word "create" doesnt neccassarily mean that they invented it. It probably just means they were "breeding" newmans. They just needed a word that would cover both building Androids and breeding Newmans. So they chose "create," they could of used the less confusing "Produced" or "producing." But that doesn"t sound very Sci-Fi.

Devoloped could just mean to expand or eloborate.

Yes, I just opened up my dictionary. It was dusty.

Ryudo

May 23, 2005, 07:04 AM

Mon6tague didn't invent androids nor newman, you're simply misinterpreting the text, he's just a scientist who makes some androids and newmen

He didnt invent them. he just made a few of them, simple as that.

Johan

May 24, 2005, 05:21 PM

Even if you consider PSO to be part of the main series canon, it's something like 800 years after PS IV. (3084.)

Nai_Calus

May 24, 2005, 07:14 PM

Nothing says that AUW is the same as AW, though, even if PSO IS set in the PS universe. For all we know the calender the Coralians use starts from the destruction of Palma, or even the date they settled on Coral.

Which doesn't resolve any questions about why a DF is hanging around that long after the Profound Darkness was presumably destroyed. Though I suppose if it's been, say, 3000 years since PSII, that it removes some of the 'Well then if they're Palmans why don't they know about Dark Falz/Force or recognize the symbol on the pillars?' questioning people have done. (Er... Why WOULD they? People in ALGOL tend to forget about Falz in the mere 1000 years it takes between games, the hell with people no longer in Algol a bare minimum of 1800 years after the last time anyone could possibly have knowledge of it showing up... Maybe it's survived as an old fairy tale about the first group of protectors, but that's not going to make every single person of Palman descent instantly recognize that particular symbol. O_o)

...Which is why it's usually best with PSO to just nod your head and smile and think of something else before it starts to hurt. >_>

PIT_pl

May 25, 2005, 10:19 AM

i think that Rika could be the first newman, look at that:

"A mysterious mechanical claw created by a legendary Newman. It boosts mid level attack techniques."

not every Newman from the older games was legendary - i mean - Alys also was legendary and there's nothing about her in PSO

correct me if i'm wrong =P

EDIT:
i've found only this:

Heart of Poumn
"A Laconiatask tempered with the Eclipse Torch's flame. Also known as Alis' Claw."

but nothing about legendary http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[ This Message was edited by: PIT_pl on 2005-05-25 08:29 ]

Nai_Calus

May 25, 2005, 11:43 AM

Alis and Alys are both human, though. >_>;

And. Um. Nei was the first numan/newman/however you want to spell it. O_o; Rika came a thousand years later. >_>;

mavericzero

May 25, 2005, 05:17 PM

how about you read that again...
And so, renowned and esteemed scientists began research on this energy signature, thinking that it could shed some light into unlocking the secrets of Photon Energy. The first result was the joint creation of the two genius scientists Professor Osto Hyle and Professor Jean-Carlo Montague: the Mag. That was only a waypoint in their research, however: they continued their research, and began to develop and create things like Androids, and the artificial lifeforms known as Newmans.
the JOINT creation of those guys was the mag, now stop being dumb

Nai_Calus

May 25, 2005, 07:04 PM

And so, renowned and esteemed scientists began research on this energy signature, thinking that it could shed some light into unlocking the secrets of Photon Energy. The first result was the joint creation of the two genius scientists Professor Osto Hyle and Professor Jean-Carlo Montague: the Mag. That was only a waypoint in their research, however: they continued their research, and began to develop and create things like Androids, and the artificial lifeforms known as Newmans.

How 'bout YOU read that again?

Now stop being dumb. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

avengis

May 27, 2005, 02:58 AM

well this is a brain twister............

PIT_pl

May 27, 2005, 04:18 AM

maybe that's just a riddle that they made, to make us think about it untill we die. before we'll die we'll tell our kids about it. they'll try to figure it out and the riddle will go on like that for hundreds of years...

(forgive me my stupidity)

Bawless

May 27, 2005, 02:05 PM