Another wierd quirk - Humans are better with Demon/Devil spe

[Liquid_Bacon]

Some background: I've run tons of East Towers to find a Twin Blaze with my Redria RAcast. I used a Frozen Shooter and my 50 hit Demon's Laser to speed things up. Now I am running Towers with my Skyly RAmar, using the same weapons. And man did I notice something! With my RAcast, it takes 3 hits (read: not shots, this isn't an accuracy thing) of the Demon's special for a Del Lily to "spin out" and die. With my RAmar, it takes one hit. I also notice a distinct difference everywhere I use the Demon's Laser. For example, my RAcast has to Demon's Epsilon 8 times in order to kill him in one hit (about 100 damage.) Dealing the same damage, my RAmar has to hit with Demon's 3 times to pull it off. Everything is dying faster!

I have compared notes with a few friends who have noticed the same thing. We already know that Androids are more effective with Master's/King's weapons; could it be that HUmans are more effective with Devil's/Demon's? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Skorpius]

I thought they were supposed to cut HP by a certain amount determined by the special.

[Tancient]

Humans are more effective with the instant-death specials.

Androids are more effective with paralysis and the like.

I'm sure there are others, but I don't know them off the top of my head.

[Aero_Hawk]

Did not know that. Intresting... very.

[Hrith]

That is total bullshit, what both of you said.

The specials have specific rates or formulas, that's all.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kef on 2005-05-10 16:57 ]</font>

[Para]

On 2005-05-10 16:21, Tancient wrote:
Humans are more effective with the instant-death specials.

Androids are more effective with paralysis and the like.

I'm sure there are others, but I don't know them off the top of my head.

Where in the world does it say that? o_Oa;

[RedSchwar]

That is total bullshit, what both of you said.

The specials have specific rates or formulas, that's all.

Then why do Androids steal more EXP, Mr. Know-it-All?

[Jarek]

Here's what I can add on this.

I was doing pw4 as my ramarl, and I took a 45h arrest raygun with me to see how well it would work. Found out I couldn't even para biters, gibbles, gi gue, ill gill..at all.
So I then decided to do it again as my hucast. Using the same gun, though not at a reliable rate, I was able to paralyze all of those several times during the run.

I used the gun a lot on both chars, so the chance to para them should've been relatively equal. Yet my cast was able to paralyze things that my ramarl could not (and we know there's a nice 50ata difference between their max).

You can say it was all just luck, but I really don't think it is.


As for humans having a better demon's special, I'm not sure how that would really work. 1/4 of an enemies hp is 1/4, regardless. Although on weps like shots/slicers/mechs, the special is still reduced, so it isn't really 1/4 at all.

[Tancient]

I tested this on my RAmar, as I didn't believe my Japanese friend who said RAcast was better for spread needle because the special worked more often.


To prove his point, he let me borrow his 35% hit spread needle. I put a dex mag on my RAmar, to have max ATA. I could hit everything with hard and weak attacks, no problem. The special worked so-so, most often in forest, and not so bad in Ruins. However, it did horrible in ep2, and still pretty poor in ep4. Then my friend took it back, and he had about 100 less ATA than me, and I just tagged along. He managed to paralyze all the enemies he hit in a single combo, nearly every single time. (And I tried weak, hard, special; and weak, weak, special; and even hard, hard, special.)

Its just like the god/techs raising the s red parts shifta/deband. Not everyone is gonna put god/techs on a HUcast.

[Hrith]

Because HUcast cannot use God/Technique ? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

Arrest has a 80% success rate (minus monster ESP, obviously).

Gi Gue, Gibbles are immune to Paralysis and Confuse.

Delbiter is immune to Seize, if you want to paralyse it you need Arrest, no less.

To the n00b who asked: androids are better with Master's, Lord's and King's in Ultimate to compensate for their lack of techs, that's since v2.

I've used Bringer's Rifle or S-Rank Rifle (with Demon's) with my RAmarl, RAcast, RAmar, RAcaseal, there's no difference.
Same can be told for my Spread Needle or Ano Rifle.

[Jarek]

On 2005-05-11 02:52, Kef wrote:

Gi Gue, Gibbles are immune to Paralysis and Confuse.



They are? Then explain this to me:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/bizkit04/paralyzed.png
I did it online, in ult, as my hucast.

[Luis]

On 2005-05-12 10:21, psobsesser wrote:

They are? Then explain this to me:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/bizkit04/paralyzed.png
I did it online, in ult, as my hucast.



oh oh...sounds like a very strong point on there!

[Jason]

On 2005-05-12 10:21, psobsesser wrote:


On 2005-05-11 02:52, Kef wrote:

Gi Gue, Gibbles are immune to Paralysis and Confuse.



They are? Then explain this to me:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/bizkit04/paralyzed.png
I did it online, in ult, as my hucast.



If the Gibbles got paralysis after and during being frozen first, maybe that's the cause. If Kef is correct, then the Gibbles probably won't get paralysis if it haven't been frozen that may have interfered.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jason on 2005-05-12 16:40 ]</font>

[Jarek]

Yeah, I figured being frozen would come up with it.

Before I took that pic, I actually loaded up a pw4, since it has gibbles right at the start. After a few shots, I got that gibbles paralyzed, and it hadn't been frozen beforehand. Best part is you can't take pics during quests, or I would've then.

The only reason I froze the one in the other pic is cause it's hard to do much when you've got an ult gibbles pounding on you, by yourself. But if people really wanna see it, I'll go get a pic of one paralyzed and unfrozen.

(sorry, I know this is getting pretty off topic, but I had to say something)

[Skorpius]

I also don't see how being frozen would have anything to do with immunity to something. :/

[Tycho]

Skorp is right those status ailments are totally independant, and won't influence each other. The reason Kef says Gibbles is immune to paralysis, is because it supposedly (http://www.pso-world.com/beastiary.php?location=7&artid=341&version=v3) has 100 ESP.

Why the Gibbles in the picture is paralyzed is beyond me. Freezing could have been done by either Rabarta, freeze traps, or FS/SQ. But assuming the 100ESP theory holds (which seems less likely with that picture and everything), it should not be possible by using the Blizzard series.

[Jarek]

Might as well add some more to this, since I don't see it's served its purpose very well.

To LiquidBacon: I think you might actually be right. I went and tried it for myself on the best enemy I knew how, Lilys. I went to caves and temple as my ramarl, in ult, and took a demon's raygun. Now it's understood that once a lily's hp gets below 1/4, it'll kill itself. So naturally after a demon hit, and any ohter attack that would deal even 1 dmg, it should die. With this char, it did exactly that.
So then I try it as my hucast. Went to caves, hit it with demon then a regular shot, but to my surprise it didn't die. I had to shoot it with another normal shot to have it kill itself. I then did it with another lily. Demon hit, then weak hit, and it did the same thing. Temple was the same way, only it took several weak hits, since they have more hp.

So from what I can tell, demon's definitely isn't the same with those 2 chars.

Now regarding the whole gibbles being paralyzed thing...
Tycho, they could still very well have 100 ESP. I tried to paralyze one as my ramarl again the other night, spent at least 10mins trying to. And it never worked.
Did a pw2 after that with J3553, and I asked him to try and paralyze the first gibbles we came to. He agreed to it, and was able to para it within about 10 seconds.
So yeah. How could a hucast para it, while a ramarl can't? Maybe if androids have a para boost of some kind, it would explain it. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

[Liquid_Bacon]

I'm going to have to do more investigating, because despite what certain unnamed know-it-alls have to say, there IS a difference, at least on Xbox. A RAcast shouldn't take 3 hits to kill a Del Lily when a RAmar only takes one. Every time. People need to remember that this 5 year old game continues to surprise us with knew information every day and no matter how well you think you know it, (because I've played since the first week of DC too) knew ideas shouldn't be blown off right away.

[J3553]

On 2005-05-17 11:34, psobsesser wrote:
Did a pw2 after that with J3553, and I asked him to try and paralyze the first gibbles we came to. He agreed to it, and was able to para it within about 10 seconds.

FACT. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Yeah, didn't take long at all.

[Liquid_Bacon]

Well, here we go. It took forever, but I've got some test results. For control purposes, my test was done with characters of identical level and Section ID, in the same quest (Endless #2), and using the SAME Demon's Laser. Here are my findings:

Normal Mode
RAcast: 1 Demon's hit + 1 pt minimum damage OR 2 Demon's hits to make the lily start spinning.
RAmar: 1 Demon's hit + 1 pt minimum damage OR 2 Demon's hits.

Ultimate Mode
RAcast: 1 Demon's hit + 619 pts minumum damage OR 3 Demon's hit to make the lily start spinning.
RAmar: 1 Demon's hit + 1 pt minimum damage OR 2 Demon's hits.

EDIT: Oh, yeah, a summary. As you can see, the RAmar and RAcast are identically proficient with the Demon's Laser in Normal Mode, but in Ultimate you see a difference (just like with the Master's/King's weapons.) Interesting! I intend to test more special attacks (including paralysis) to see if there are more differences.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Liquid_Bacon on 2005-05-19 11:35 ]</font>

[NOHspeak]

I think it's just 1 stage higher or lower on the specials. so what should we name the next paraylsis stage after arrest that the droids use?

I heard of this from a JP friend a while back and have seen PSObesser paraylze just about everything in tower. Some players knew about the bonuses for some time. I guess they either thought it was common knowledge or haven't given it much thought.

[RedSchwar]

To the n00b who asked: androids are better with Master's, Lord's and King's in Ultimate to compensate for their lack of techs, that's since v2.

Then who are you to say this has not been done for other weapon attributes? Sheesh.