PSOBB: Episode 4 Dropcharts (new host)

[Tycho]

;x (http://tychopso.oddigytitanium.com)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tycho on 2005-07-03 12:06 ]</font>

[Dhylec]

now, if we can get the drop rates.. ;3

[Tycho]

Yeah, I know. To be able to make decently accurate droprates, I'd need to do some research on the drop-anything rates in EP4, and make a new excavation thread when the game/expansion is released.

At least some drops like the Rappy's Beak's apply to all ID's, so I wouldn't be surprised if the droprates were the same as well. Same for the vipers, I doubt the droprates will be distinct for the different ID's.
But since the Ult drops are almost the same as the VH ones, I wonder if (and by how much) the rates in Ult will be any better. x_x

[Hrith]

hmm, sometimes drops can be very surprising on PSO.

Red Ring is easier in Whitill than in other IDs, Justy-23ST drops as a 10 stars from a Cave Ob Lily in Greennill Cave, etc.

For the drop anything rates, until we can do some research, we can assume they did not change the pattern much:
Sand Rappy -- 100%
Del Rappy -- 100%
Boota -- 30%
Ba Boota -- 30~35%
Ze Boota -- 35%
Astark -- 80~85%
Satelite Lizard -- 30%
Yowie -- 40%
Zu -- 50%
Pazuzu -- 100%
Dolphon -- 80%
Dolphon Eclair -- 100%
Goran -- 30%
Pyro Goran -- 35%
Goran Detonator -- 45%
Melissa A -- 30%
Melissa A A -- 100%
Giltabril -- 80%
Wine Vipers -- 70%

I used the Ultimate pattern for reference, DA rates change with difficulty, not much, but they do, especially for bosses.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kef on 2005-06-02 06:21 ]</font>

[Tycho]

Hmm. How did you get the rates for Zuu and Melissa A?
Because I'm not exactly sure, the VR enemies having DA rates distinct from their EP1 versions makes me wonder if the DA rates would really be like this for EP4.

Edit: Now that I checked it some other rates don't match existing DA rates exactly either, but I guess it doesn't matter much. We'll find in a few weeks.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tycho on 2005-06-02 09:11 ]</font>

[Hrith]

Hence the word "assume" http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Tancient]

Every time I've fought the three cheeses (I think blue cheese, red cheese, and moldy cheese fit them better than wine since it seems ST butchered their English names) they always dropped an item. The rappies will not always drop an item either. X.x Del rappy, yes, sand rappy, not always.

[Tycho]

That's unexpected. x_x;


EDIT:

I need some opinions.

1: Which of these (http://www.freewebs.com/tychopso/test1.htm) interfaces should I go by? Or should I just keep all of these available? The icons and colors basically serve the same purpose.

2: What about this (http://www.freewebs.com/tychopso/test2.htm)? Terrible, or good idea to merge the cells when the drop is unrelated to ID's (assuming the droprates will stay the same, otherwise I'd split them again)? I think it makes it easier to see that all ID's get the same drop this way, so it's good when comparing ID's in my opinion. Or should I not use this because it makes it harder to see what drops from this monster when you're focusing on the Viridia/Whitill column?

Any ideas would be appreciated.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tycho on 2005-06-02 11:20 ]</font>

[Tycho]

I'm probably not allowed to bump this, but either way, there have been some minor updates for the VH/U charts, and I added N/H.
They're really boring (http://www.freewebs.com/tychopso/), whoever made the N/H charts at ST should be fired or something. <_<

As an interesting sidenote, the Japanese item list (http://saitomu.sakura.ne.jp/pso/index2.htm) is now a lot more complete. Does anyone feel the need to have a translated version of this? >_>
Anyway, it has 99 items now, of which 4 are magcells, meaning we know of 103 items now, out of the 150 the EP4 box promised. I hope they'll add a crapload when they release EP4 c-mode, if there will be one.
Note to Ian: One of the armors is called "Transvestite Plate". Maybe that will finally allow male characters to use the currently female-only stuff? >_>

[Jasam]

Is it just me or the ULT and VHARD drops exactly the same 0.0

[Tycho]

... Yeah, they're mostly the same. That's what I meant when I said the charts are extremely boring.

[Dhylec]

Tycho wrote:
I'm probably not allowed to bump this, but either way, there have been some minor updates for the VH/U charts, and I added N/H.

tsk tsk.. even tyc doesn't peek into the stickies <.<

[PaleKid15]

nice work Tycho.

Unrelated news- I NEED to talk to a few people in this topic. Advil is on BB now... PM me. (you know who you are)

[Sitka]

Tycho,

You always do such a superb job on your projects - thank you.

Kef's comment about the "Excaliber" sword on the other thread really picqued my interest. Is that the "Lame D'argent" on the Yelloboze id?

Any clue, ballparkish, what the drop rate is on that thing?

I don't read jp, anywhere I can go to get information about the stats, bonuses and details of this and other e4 weps/items in English?

[EJ]

The drop rate is 1/good luck finding it. >.>

I would guess since its a boss drop it will probably be 1/100 maybe I don't really know just guessing since I found the boss and rare boss under purple 50 times and no drops.

[Tycho]

Sitka, did you ever notice the ID and name of my HUcast? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif
I linked to the Japanese item list I use (on Saitomu) in my previous post, you could just Babelfish it. I think I can't really add anything to that list, and uploading a translated version would be kind of lame. ~_~

Anyway~

Excalibur is a saber that hits multiple targets. It's range and radius are most likely inferior to those of swords and partisans, but at least it has a quick attacking animation.
It has 12 stars, an ATP requirement of 800 making it wearable by all but FOnewearl, gives +950 ATP, +60 ATA, +35 MST, +10 EDK, +10 ELT, grind +0.
Its special is Berserk, it can be obtained by unsealing a Lame D'Argent at 10K kills.
It makes a set with the "Derujisu" mag, giving it Devil/Battle speed. This mag can be obtained by using a Dragon Scale on a mag.
By the way, Dragon Scale is kinda rare too, it drops from vipers as well. Except that it drops in all difficulties, and can be found from boxes in the viper-room as well.

If you want me to give you short descriptions of all new items that pwn royally just add me on MSN or something. x_X;

[PJ]

!

New mag!

And a powerup to the cool weapon!

Now all we need is the new mag to be cool, and we're all set.

I know /Battle units don't stack, but would God-Heavenly/Battle stack on this speed?

[Tycho]

I think not, so it's only nice if you want to save a slot. ._.
If you want mags, there are (at least) four new ones. The mag cells for them are called "Dragon Scale", "Pioneer Parts", "Coating of Heaven Striker", and the Rappy Beak we all knew about already.

[Hrith]

Tycho, d00d, as soon as you have a pic of Raj De Fe, pelase post it, if it looks cool, it'll be my first Ep4 hunt http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[AxelgearVII]

Is Guren 1/2 of the Paired Sword known as Jizai? If thats the case, Dorphon Eclairs are #1 on my assasination list. Heavenly Battle Armor has caught my eye also.

[Hrith]

Guren and Joren make Jizai, no one knows how to get Joren, yet, though.

[GyroidFanatic]

On 2005-06-11 01:33, Tycho wrote:
If you want me to give you short descriptions of all new items that pwn royally just add me on MSN or something. x_X;

How about you just post them all here >_>

[AxelgearVII]

On 2005-06-11 15:41, Kef wrote:
Guren and Joren make Jizai, no one knows how to get Joren, yet, though.


Cant wait to get my hands on that baby. Paired swords are my thing. o/

[Sitka]

And I was excited before you posted that info Tych.

Now I'm just Sooooooo excited.

[Getintothegame]

I'm excited to see that there are Episode 3 names in there.

[Dek]

On 2005-06-11 01:33, Tycho wrote:
Anyway~

Excalibur is a saber that hits multiple targets. It's range and radius are most likely inferior to those of swords and partisans, but at least it has a quick attacking animation.

So is the range something similar to Snow Queen then?

[EJ]

Excalibur can only hit 3 targets and you need to be really close to hit them but the range is still better than a regular saber and with the fast animation it shouldn't be a problem.

Also Deissa could tell you more about it.

[Hrith]

On 2005-06-11 20:30, Getintothegame wrote:
I'm excited to see that there are Episode 3 names in there.Explain ? ;o

[Tycho]

I added a few DR's (http://www.freewebs.com/tychopso/), for the 100% drop-anything drops for which I had accurate droprate data.
Again, most credit goes to Deissa. He told me about this site (http://spc.sakura.ne.jp/psobb/psobb_item/psobb_item.cgi), which has the EP4 droprates like they are listed in the official EP4 guide.

[RicoRoyal]

I sure hope there was an error w/ those numbers. Very Hard drops are not only the same as Ultimate, but it would seem they are not harder to find in Very Hard as they are in Ultimate. Bad, Sonic Team, bad!

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

[Quo]

The hell is this crap?! Same drops from same enemies in different difficulties. That's just stupid.

BTW, is the appearance rate for rare enemies in ep.4 1/512? I heard ST lowered it a while back, but I haven't been keeping track of BB since I didn't figure I'd ever play it until a few days ago.

[GyroidFanatic]

1/64 Heaven's Punisher in Very Hard...!?

[Hrith]

From what I read, Quo, rare monster appearance rate is 1/256 in Ep1 and Ep2, 1/128 in Ep4, 1/50ish for the rare boss.

[Quo]

On 2005-06-14 14:36, Kef wrote:
From what I read, Quo, rare monster appearance rate is 1/256 in Ep1 and Ep2, 1/128 in Ep4, 1/50ish for the rare boss.


Good. That makes me feel better about the 1/21 drops. Especially since there's no more piping.

[RicoRoyal]

On 2005-06-14 14:42, Quo wrote:


On 2005-06-14 14:36, Kef wrote:
From what I read, Quo, rare monster appearance rate is 1/256 in Ep1 and Ep2, 1/128 in Ep4, 1/50ish for the rare boss.


Good. That makes me feel better about the 1/21 drops. Especially since there's no more piping.



Agreed, but I still think it's bullshit that Very Hard has the same drop rates as Ultimate. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[Quo]

On 2005-06-14 14:48, RicoRoyal wrote:

Agreed, but I still think it's bullshit that Very Hard has the same drop rates as Ultimate. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif



Damn skippy!

Great Job ST. Way to take a chance to make EP4 more diverse, unique, and interesting and shit on it. Why bother playing ULT if you can find the same thing at the same rate while killing easier monsters?

[Sitka]

I haven't played e4 yet (anticipating greatly though), but from what I've read, it's insanely difficult.

Perhaps providing good wep drops in VH was a way of giving us mortals a chance to obtain some really cool new weps - realistically.

Just a thought.

[Neith]

So Ophelie is 1/21-ish, not 1/205? Great news http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Tycho, you rule. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Tycho]

Updated (http://www.freewebs.com/tychopso/).
I now listed all data I have, mostly inaccurate droprates (for most of them I have two or three options). 85% of the droprates are still excluding drop-anything rates, except for the bosses' and rare enemies' (100% DAR).

I think I'm near done until the game is released in the US. x_x


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tycho on 2005-06-16 02:07 ]</font>

[Neith]

Out of curiosity, where there are gaps in the Drop Charts, does this indicate no rare drop, or just a drop that is still unknown/unfound/unreleased? Cheers.

[Tycho]

It means no rare drop.

[Quo]

Hold on a minute.

If I'm reading this right, a viridia should have to fight Saint-Milion 1065 times to find Centurian/Ability on average but 3000 to 3600 times to find Heavenly/Ability (assuming Kondrieu's appearance rate is 1/50).

WTF?

Am I interpreting the chart wrong or is ST really that careless?

[Neith]

On 2005-06-16 03:04, Tycho wrote:
It means no rare drop.



Urgh, that sucks. So I'm guessing that since we don't have 150 new items yet, that the others will likely be quest rewards etc?

[Tycho]

On 2005-06-16 10:04, Quo wrote:


You read correctly. See it this way; if you encounter Saint-Milion or Shambertin, ah well, you still get a fuckload of exp. If you're lucky enough to encounter Kondrieu, yay, you have a decent shot at a good rare as well, so switch to whatever ID you want, just get H/Abil from Dorphon Eclairs (which is still really hard).
The rates aren't supposed to be 'fair', you'll get rares from Kondrieu, and maybe from the boxes. Coating of Heaven Striker, Striker Plus, and Tripolic Reflector seem to be near impossible to get, because they don't drop from the rare viper. I'm still wondering why Saitomu did not list Coating as a Bluefull-exclusive though, it's seems pretty exclusive to me at the moment.



On 2005-06-16 10:06, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Urgh, that sucks. So I'm guessing that since we don't have 150 new items yet, that the others will likely be quest rewards etc?


Indeed. I wanna know about the other ones too, I hope they will release a bunch in a new challenge mode.

[ZodiacNKnight]

I would like to point out my post for some help.
If you would like to see pictures of the drops then click away. I also have a link in there to see most of the monsters and levels.

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=99682&forum=6&4

[Skorpius]

On 2005-06-16 10:25, Tycho wrote:
If you're lucky enough to encounter Kondrieu, yay, you have a decent shot at a good rare as well, so switch to whatever ID you want
You can't "switch IDs" during a Boss fight. >.>

[Quo]

On 2005-06-16 14:25, Skorpius wrote:


On 2005-06-16 10:25, Tycho wrote:
If you're lucky enough to encounter Kondrieu, yay, you have a decent shot at a good rare as well, so switch to whatever ID you want
You can't "switch IDs" during a Boss fight. >.>


Forgive me for asking such a newbish question, but I've never played online. How would you go about "switching IDs?"

[Neith]

By having all but one person leave the game, the remaining person (the ID you wish to switch to) remains in-game, and pipes back to Pioneer. IIRC, this resets the tekker to the new ID. Everyone else then re-joins and continues the game under the new ID. I may have some details wrong, so this probably isn't 100% accurate.

[Hrith]

You can, Skorp, you can http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Skorpius]

On 2005-06-16 15:03, Kef wrote:
You can, Skorp, you can http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Only if you purposely die/disconnect like a moron.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-06-16 15:31 ]</font>

[Tycho]

Skorp, how about:

"Zomg, it's Kondrieu! I demand my Heaven Striker!"
*call over Purplenum friend, friend enters telepipe to boss warp and sets own telepipe*
*everyone else disconnects and rejoins*
*team beats Kondrieu, a Monomate drops*

Easy, no?
Could you explain the "moron" part for me? <_<

[Skorpius]

Unless that's the normal boss, how the fuck will you know what it is unless you enter the arena?

You're screwed if it's a rare form.

And, note, don't assume I know what boss is what. I'm not folloing the shitty names of these things.

[AxelgearVII]

On 2005-06-16 17:43, Skorpius wrote:
I'm not folloing the shitty names of these things.



lol. J00 make me laff Skorp. But you raise a good point. When you see the rare form of the boss, you can leave the arena and come abck and itll still be the same right? Since enemies dont respawn (hence no piping).

[PJ]

Somebody mentioned that if you die from the rare form, and come back, it's still the rare form.

Probably Tycho

[Tycho]

No, no.
The thing is, you do enter the boss area. If the boss is rare, you make sure someone of the right ID will come to babysit the game and set a new pipe to the boss, so the rest can reconnect.
Yes, during a bossfight. Would you prefer to have a Dragon Scale drop instead of Lame? :/
I know you don't care about that, but that wasn't the point. >_>

[ZodiacNKnight]

Wait a minute here...

Section ID's do NOT change the game.

Here's how it works:
I'm Skyly and I create a game.
That means all the monsters are set to the skyly drops. Say 3 other people join me. But that doesn't change the drops because I'm still ingame. NOW if I were to leave the game then you would think the drops would change but they don't.
The drops are based on the person who made the game! Not who leaves and enters it.

Unless it was a glich or something but this is what happened.
A Pinkal made a game and we did some trading.
She left but I decided to stay. Because the drops are based on the Pinkal ID and not on my Skyly ID, I found rares as if I had a Pinkal ID... So I'm not sure about Tekker changing like that. I believe the game and drops stay the way it is once it's created.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ZodiacNKnight on 2005-06-17 08:04 ]</font>

[Neith]

It doesn't stay the same. The remaining player has to pipe back to Pioneer to reset the game as far as I know. This definately works; me, Seval and ToH changed a Skyly Temple into Oran when we saw a Mil Lily. Ive done it before with other ID's too.

[Hrith]

I can hardly believe some people aren't aware of that...

Player A is Viridia, Player B is Purplenum, Player C is Whitill.

You're doing VR Temple when OMG LOLZ a Love Rappy shows up.

You don't want an Agito 1980 from the Viridia ID, and the Electro Frame from Whitill interests you, so you must change the ID to Whitill.

For that, Player A and Player B will have to exit the team and go back to lobby.

Meanwhile, you pipe back to Pioneer 2 (rare monsters don't disappear if you pipe, online), you go to the tekker and make sure the tekker has changed from Viridia to Whitill. If he has not, pipe back to Ragol and back to Pioneer 2, and check.

This part is optional -- when the tekker is Whitill, call back your friends, and ask them to look at the tekker, if they still see the Viridia tekker, tell them to use your pipe to Ragol and come back; they should now see the Whitill tekker.

You are now in Whitill.

For references, the 10 tekkers:

Viridia
http://keffypoo.free.fr/viridiatek.png

Greennill
http://keffypoo.free.fr/greennilltek.png

Skyly
http://keffypoo.free.fr/skylytek.png

Bluefull
http://keffypoo.free.fr/bluefulltek.png

Purplenum
http://keffypoo.free.fr/purplenumtek.png

Pinkal
http://keffypoo.free.fr/pinkaltek.png

Redria
http://keffypoo.free.fr/redriatek.png

Oran
http://keffypoo.free.fr/orantek.png

Yellowboze
http://keffypoo.free.fr/yellowbozetek.png

Whitill
http://keffypoo.free.fr/whitilltek.png

[Tycho]

On 2005-06-17 12:32, Kef wrote:
GreennillGreenill


I'm calling Whitill 'Wittle' from now on. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Saiffy]

On 2005-06-17 14:02, Tycho wrote:


On 2005-06-17 12:32, Kef wrote:
GreennillGreenill


I'm calling Whitill 'Wittle' from now on. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



There are 2 'n's Tychu. >_>;

[Hrith]

I consider Greenill a typo, it has two "n" on my game (GC).

They changed it in PSO+, dunno about BB, but I consider this a typo, anyway -_-

[Hrith]

I consider Greenill a typo, it has two "n" on my game (GC).

They changed it in PSO+, dunno about BB, but I consider this a typo, anyway -_-

[Sitka]

Kef - you're tekker reference pictures are def not your best work.

They're all FUGLY!

We've changed ids just as described many times on xbox as well. I don't see why it wont work on BB.

[Sitka]

Looking at some of those ep 4 drops in item database (wipes drool from corner of mouth) -

any idea if the special on those weps are reduced/unreduced? For example, the demon special on the slicer of fanatic?

[Tycho]

On 2005-06-17 14:41, Sitka wrote:
Looking at some of those ep 4 drops in item database (wipes drool from corner of mouth) -

any idea if the special on those weps are reduced/unreduced? For example, the demon special on the slicer of fanatic?


The Japanese don't test that stuff I think. We haven't been able to as of yet.

[Tancient]

Pfft, the Japanese test those things more than US players. Saitomu is mostly just for basi dropping and item info. You'll have to look harder to find the info on the slicer.

[drizzle]

On 2005-06-17 14:06, Kef wrote:
dunno about BB

'Greenill'


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: drizzle on 2005-06-17 17:22 ]</font>

[Tycho]

On 2005-06-17 16:12, Tancient wrote:
Pfft, the Japanese test those things more than US players.
Maybe some US players don't care about it, but you can't generalize that to all of them. Still, I have never while surfing Japanese PSO sites seen one that had information about reducability. x_x

[Johan]

Friend of mine tested ID changing this morning. You can change the tekker, but the game's ID for drops is stuck - at least on BB, anyway. (It may not be on console versions.)

[Tycho]

That's a really interesting observation, I should test that. x_x

[Tycho]

Johan.
You're right. ;-;

EDIT: Since we can't switch ID's anymore, I had to consider for what ID's I liked the drops overall, without being able to switch.
Guess what two ID's appeared most interesting to me?

Bluefull, and Pinkal. This is not a joke. T_T


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tycho on 2005-06-19 12:30 ]</font>

[Garm]

They should have given Greennill an Über" rare IMO http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif I need EP4 o.O

[Neith]

Heh, no more ID switching eh? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif
Looks as if other people will be making most of my games, Greenill got left out for EpIV drops ;-;

[drizzle]

Well by the looks of it you could level to 200 in only Ep4 and not get a single rare, so meh ;p

Greenill doesn't look so bad to me... sure it has no uber rare from the bosses maybe but ehhhh it's not like those are ever going to drop in my lifetime anyway.

I was considering making my 4th char a purplenum...but... 1/128-2k drop rate from a rare boss? lmao. That thing makes the Heaven Punisher & Psycho Wand look good http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Tycho]

I should make a Bluefull RAcaseal to hunt HP in FoS (because the rarest component should always be hunted first), and just beg Pinkals to make me Ult EP4 games for Cleio from Del Rappies... x_x;

Yeah, I agree Greenill is a bad ID, even worse than it was before. <_<
Pinkal... has actually become an interesting ID for Forces, especially for nuking FOnewms.
Bluefull is just... cool? o.o
Bluefull has great EP4 drops, the Torr appearance rate is four times as good as it was before, and Heaven Punisher will probably be quite popular instead of a useless novelty rare.
Hmmm, choosing ID's won't be as easy anymore. I'm starting to think ST actually tried to balance this game.

[Neith]

Well it's about time it was balanced really http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
I went with greenill mainly for the Ep1/2 drops (*cough Yas3KR*), before I knew which ID's got what in Episode IV. Ive got other characters though, so it's no biggie. I'll be trying Episode IV just for the EXP, if nothing else.

Though 'Dark Dignity Coat' does seem great...

Too many uber EpIV drops x_X

[Tycho]

Meh. I'm leaning more towards Rangers than Hunters at the moment, so I don't care much for it. ._.

[Neith]

Yeah, my main is a Ranger, so I'll be more interested in ranger equippable items, but the armour just caught my eye when I was browsing the items.

[Hrith]

On 2005-06-20 02:53, Tycho wrote:
Hmmm, choosing ID's won't be as easy anymore. I'm starting to think ST actually tried to balance this game.Whitill > j00 http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Tycho]

On a lot of occasions, Kef wrote:
Whitill > j00 http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif
No thank you, I like to think using long-term goals. Whitill's Red weapons do not fit into that. I still like Guld Milla's unreduced Gush, but meh. Certainly not for RAmarl.

[Hrith]

"ZOMG, that weapon has 50 more ATP, it must be 10000 times better!!"

Just because there are some weapons that are a bit better and 10 times as rare does not mean Cudgel, Red weapons, GM, Flight Fan/Cutter, Asuka, S-Red's Blade, Ruby Bullet, Rico's Earring, Yas2k, MKB, Yamigarasu, Rika's Claw, etc. are bad weapons, very far from it.

Not mentioning the armours/shields/units, and the fact that Whitill has a good Ep4.

Your arguments are becoming more and more stupid, I suggest you look less at what the paper says, and play the game more.

The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and maybe even 5th best weapon of one class are still good weapons.

BKB deals barely more damage than Cudgel, for instance.

That childish "it's not the best so it sucks" mentality is irritating.

Yes, almost all Ep4 weapons are superior to their Ep1&2 counterparts, but they're also much rarer, and not better by a lot, especially taking into account rarity.

Bluefull and Purplenum Ep4 exclusives, for instance, are only really good on paper, ingame, I doubt they'd make a huge difference; especially since if they'd make a difference, it would be on low-level chars, and with such a rarity, you are very likely to be 180+ before finding uber Ep4 rares.

Remember how I could pwn Ult Ep1&2 on GC with weapons like Bloody Art, Cross Scar, Red Dagger, S-Rank Axe, Lavis Cannon, Sange, Morning Glory, Dragon Slayer, Twin Brand, Meteor Cudgel, Ruby Bullet, Justy-23ST, Panzer Faust, S-Rank Launcher, etc.

Having a weapon with 100 more ATP and won't make you more useful to the team at all.

So saying "I want teh best weapons, lolz" is nice, but what for? Unless it's for looks or collection purposes, which I completely understand, there is no use (in 90% of the cases).

Vivian is good, but you'd do the same job with a Cudgel, no more, no less, so saying it's so good it makes Cudgel/Demo Comet useless is very stupid.

So if you want all those uber rare Ep4 weapons, by all means, get them; you will soon realise that they are good weapons, not superior.

[Skorpius]

Kef, you say you can "pwn" PSO with shitty weapons, but you say certain IDs suck because they get shitty weapons? Wouldn't it just not matter what items IDs get since PSO is so easy, and you're such a great and uber player that you could pwn with a Frame, Mag, and Saber? ;P

[Tycho]

Kef, I go by the following theory for deciding on ID's:
It's hard for a non-Yellowboze to get a Lame D'Argent (or even to get permission to call it). It's not that hard for Yellowboze to get a Demolition Comet, even though that does not drop for Yellowboze.
This is because Demolition Comet is a rare people would be willing to trade, because you can just use someone else's ID to hunt one, and because they'll actually allow you to call it.

Because of that, I think the hard rare drops are more important, especially for the rares that are easiest to hunt in Single Player mode.

[Sitka]

After looking at Kef's comments, I went back and looked at those E4 drop rates. They are seriously insane.

For most of us, including those of us that gathered nearly a dozen pds off of Skyly Gi Gues in 200 levels of Tower running, we'll more than likely never see a l'ame dargent or some of the other more coveted wep/item drops.

So, what's the added benefit of mastering e4 while looking for drops that you'll more than likely never see? Can you gain more experience per time than on e1 or e2? Are the non-rare drops/tech discs better?

I know, for example, that on xbox when I achieved a high enough level, I practically lived in Seabeds, Towers and on the PW4 quests because even the non-rare drops were good, the tech drops were awesome (6 x lvl 29 megid tech finds) and it was challenging.

So I'm curious to know from the e4 vets if the time spent there is good.

[Ryna]

On 2005-06-20 11:14, Sitka wrote:
After looking at Kef's comments, I went back and looked at those E4 drop rates. They are seriously insane.


Looking at the droprates, they really don't seem that bad to me. It is nothing like the DC days where a 10* item would have 1/50k+ odds.



For most of us, including those of us that gathered nearly a dozen pds off of Skyly Gi Gues in 200 levels of Tower running, we'll more than likely never see a l'ame dargent or some of the other more coveted wep/item drops.

So, what's the added benefit of mastering e4 while looking for drops that you'll more than likely never see? Can you gain more experience per time than on e1 or e2? Are the non-rare drops/tech discs better?


In case you haven't noticed, Sonic Team has made rare hunting more difficult on Blue Burst. Without the ability to pipe for rares and switch IDs, things become more difficult. Sure, the rare enemy rate has been reduced, but you still won't be able to switch IDs in game to get the item you want.

So what is the point of mastering Episode 4? That is easy, to have fun. Finding a rare weapon along the way is the hook that keeps you coming back.

Of course, if you are playing the game soley for rare hunting, you are going to be disappointed with the new episode.

[Jack]

Of course, if you are playing the game soley for rare hunting, you are going to be disappointed with the new episode.


And completely missing the point of the game - it's all about helping each other succeed, not willy waving with "zomg l@@k at my billion star rare".

[Cahill]

All those 1/128-2K items are 128,000 to 200,000 right? Damn...

Forgive me if this is a dumb Q but - Why are Saint and Shambertin in blue text and some of the drops in red text? Keep in mind I know NOTHING about ep 4 enemies or drops. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I've been entirely away from PSO for a few months.

[Tycho]

On 2005-06-20 12:50, Cahill wrote:
All those 1/128-2K items are 128,000 to 200,000 right? Damn...

Forgive me if this is a dumb Q but - Why are Saint and Shambertin in blue text and some of the drops in red text? Keep in mind I know NOTHING about ep 4 enemies or drops. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I've been entirely away from PSO for a few months.


The drop range from 1/128 to 1/2,3**, excluding drop-anything range. The blue enemies are rare enemies, the red ones are bosses. I made the rare boss red, assumed people would get it anyway, especially because in HeyF00l's charts it was like that too. But I guess I should have pointed it out.
The red drops are exclusive to that specific Section ID.
There is one that is not red but still is ID-exclusive from the way I see it; "Coating of Heaven Striker" from Bluefull Saint-Milion and Shambertin in VH/Ult. Saitomu did not mark it as red, but I think I should change it by now. >_<

[Tycho]

Since I'm allowed to bump this...
New update, all bad item names in the dropcharts have been changed to the official names now. Deissa linked me to a Chinese site with official names (http://community.1001game.com/mainAction.cgi?sid=NJCBpVZtQcy2Q_1119873068835&tourl=readAction.cgi%3Fsid%3DF0rvCV%2Fa%2FeMHk_111 9866725460%26bid%3D65%26recid%3D825736%26pages%3D3 %26inpages%3D1) today, posted a list with all item name confirmation (including 12 new items!) in the database topic in Site Related too.

What surprised me most: the Skyly viper drop is not the same for the non-rare vipers, as it is for Kondrieu. They both do drop armors with built-in /Battle units, with (especially in kanji) very similar names. >_<

So Kef and Arislan, you can go update the names in your databases. ._.

[Quo]

On 2005-06-27 11:47, Tycho wrote:

What surprised me most: the Skyly viper drop is not the same for the non-rare vipers, as it is for Kondrieu. They both do drop armors with built-in /Battle units, with (especially in kanji) very similar names. >_<

And the better item still has the easier drop. -_-

[Tycho]

On 2005-06-27 12:34, Quo wrote:
And the better item still has the easier drop. -_-


Well, yeah, the EP4 dropcharts are STupid.

Did I mention FOmar, FOmarl, and FOnewm can not wear Excalibur? Gaha, that made my day. Kekeke. >_>;

[EJ]

On 2005-06-27 12:52, Tycho wrote:


On 2005-06-27 12:34, Quo wrote:
And the better item still has the easier drop. -_-


Well, yeah, the EP4 dropcharts are STupid.

Did I mention FOmar, FOmarl, and FOnewm can not wear Excalibur? Gaha, that made my day. Kekeke. >_>;




huh..unless they made a update last I checked I was using it before.

[Tycho]

On 2005-06-27 14:34, ForceEJ wrote:


In that case they probably didn't change it. :/
So.. Either that was a typo, just for BB China (What? It's more balanced than our game?), or for US too.

Then, for the US it will probably be FO-usable. ;-;

[Saffran]

They mention Heavenly arm from hard mode boxes, this was removed like back in March? I haven't heard of a H Arm found in Hard ever since I cam eback in April...

Seriouly, I won't be trusting that grid.

And btw, you got the del rappy bluefull drop for VH wrong (I was meaning to say this since last week...) it drops H Luck. (says Saitomu)

[Tancient]

On 2005-06-27 17:34, Saffran wrote:
They mention Heavenly arm from hard mode boxes, this was removed like back in March? I haven't heard of a H Arm found in Hard ever since I cam eback in April...

Seriouly, I won't be trusting that grid.

And btw, you got the del rappy bluefull drop for VH wrong (I was meaning to say this since last week...) it drops H Luck. (says Saitomu)


People still find H/arm from Hard....but I heard the made it rarer. More like box red barrier from a box rarer.

[Tycho]

On 2005-06-27 17:34, Saffran wrote:


Apparently I messed up and swapped the Blue and Sky drops, corrected it now.
As for the H/Arm drop, well, fuck. <_<;
That means it will be more like 1/5K now. I guess it's a lot more fair that way, but eh. ~_~

[Tycho]

Gah, that sucked. The bandwidth exploded, so on the first day Episode IV has been released, the dropcharts went down.
The site is becoming so big I'll probably end up trying to get a real domain (and put Google ads on it? -_-), but here's a temporary page (http://romain.bernardi.free.fr/tycho/) in case anyone needs them until then. Thank you for hosting them Kef! ^ ^

[T1K]

Tycho, how exactly did you get the range for the drop rate. JPN BB? If something is between 1/128 and 1/2300 wouldn't that just be a drop rate of 1/1214? Or is it something that just hasn't been nailed down yet. I'm a statatistical idiot, but just wondered how/where they were derived.

I really think it's one thing to have the same drops and rates for different modes, but the rates just seem way out of left field from the typical PSO-style drops seen previously.

Maybe it's the drop anything rate...which i REALLY don't understand. lol.

[Quo]

On 2005-06-28 19:07, T1K wrote:

Maybe it's the drop anything rate...which i REALLY don't understand. lol.


Bingo.

The drop rates vary because no one knows the drop anything rate for episode 4 monsters.

The drop anything rate is the chance that a monster will drop anything. Red box, tool, guard, meseta, anything. a monster has a chance to drop any number of things. Each type of item has its own drop rate. Tools have a rate, photon drop has a rate (I think its rate is seperate from the tool drop rate, but I don't really remember), guards have a rate, weapons have a rate, and rares have a rate. All of these rates total to 1/1. Then enemies have DA rates which reduce that 1/1 to something more like 30% (or is it 35%) for a tollaw, melqueek, and Del-D. Bosses have a relatively high drop anything rate, and rare enemies have a 100% drop anything rate.

[Hrith]

Any monster can drop:
-Tool (this in cludes PDs)
-Meseta
-Weapon, Armour OR Shield
-Rare
-Nothing

For a Tollaw, the odds of dropping nothing is 65%.
So the drop-anything rate (DAR) is literally the odds of anything (tool, meseta, weapon/armour/shield, rare) dropping, in the case of the Tollaw, 35%

Del-D is 35%, but Melqueek is 15%, and is quite famous for that.

The inherent odds of an 11 star weapon such as Lavis Cannon dropping is 1/10082.

1/10082 is if the odds of dropping nothing is 0% = 100% DAR.

The more the odds of dropping anything decreases, the more the rarity increases, exponentially.

If the odds of dropping nothing is 20%, then the odds of dropping an item is 80%, the rarity of Lavis Cannon becomes 1/12604 (Whitill Gibbles, for instance).

And so on until the dreaded Viridia Yasha, 1/67217, result of the 2nd worst DAR in the game.

It works the same for rare monsters and bosses, except the inherent rarity changes.

The figures and the rather obvious pattern of Episodes 1 and 2 has changed for Episode 4, but it works the same way, so once we know the DAR for monsters, we will have accurate rare drop rates as well.

If you wanna help, you can do some research:
Count how many [monster] you've killed, and how many dropped anything at all, and let us know.
Mention the difficulty, as DAR can change with difficulty.

[Tycho]

Yeah, what Kef said.
I have something to add to this though.
By 1/128 ~ 1/2K, I meant the droprate would be either 1/128, 1/205, 1/315.4, 1/512, 1/1,024, 1/1,820, or 1/2,340. Once we figure out the DAR for a monster with a droprate like that is 50%, that means the available options are 1/256, ..., 1/4,680.
Yeah, the current data is just that dreadfully inaccurate. Once we have this set of possible rates including DAR, excavation runs will have to give us an indication which of these possible rates is the correct one.
Yes, this is a hard and time-consuming process, but there's not much we can do about that.
If anyone feels like helping out, there are a few ways, for the different rates we're still after.
To help figure out DA-rates, keep track of the number of monsters of a certain type you killed, the difficulty, and the number of boxes those enemies dropped.
Second, to figure out the actual droprates and rare enemy appearance rates (REAR), just write down what kind of run you did, what rares dropped, and what rare enemies you encountered.

[drizzle]

I have a hard time believing they're still using the same drop chance calculation as in previous versions. If they did, doubled drop rates like they are doing now just aren't possible. And neither is the slightly increased rare drop rate in the forest. The BB drop system is much more flexible than it was before, it has to be different.
Not saying those numbers are completely wrong but I very much doubt that we'll ever get accurate numbers like we have for EP1&2; it's all guesswork.

I'd stick with 'very rare', 'rare as hell', and 'dont even think about it' based on the amount of stars it has http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Tycho]

On 2005-06-29 05:43, drizzle wrote:


Sure, they may have programmed it slightly differently, but it's still kind of a port.
Either way, I think your way of describing rarities is still a lot less accurate.

[Hrith]

Especially since stars do not mean much on Ep4, it seems.

And the way Ep4 was programmed is independent from the way it works.

What I said earlier still applies to Ep4, that's for sure.

The programmation is probably different, to allow more flexibility, but the result is the same, and that's what concerns us.

[Dragon_Knight]

I'm hating my ID's more and more. Every character I create is Purpluium, I have to play around and hopufuly get something diffrent...now we also have a problem with purp...there are NO friggen drops for them in ep 4. Now I've made a skyly hunter that I'm trying to bring up to speed, but that will be a while.

Also a side note I can't access any of the drop chart pages.

[Hrith]

Ep4 drop charts: http://www.tychopso.oddigytitanium.com/

And Purplenum is a good ID, for Ep1, 2 and 4, so keep one.
Of course, do not make repeat IDs, that's silly.
Also, do not worry about the holes in the drop charts in Very Hard and Ultimate, they will be filled some day http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kef on 2005-07-04 01:30 ]</font>

[Sitka]

Any chance on getting a printer-friendly version of that chart?

I have a real issue with memory these days and find having a drop chart in front of me really helps.

BTW Kef, nice saber last night. Ver pretty.

I did get the Yasakani Magatama last night.

[Dragon_Knight]

Thanks for the chart, and I'm still waiting for the explination on why Purp is so good. lol only three rares I want out of it and only two good trade fodders, now if they would unlock ultimate mode I could get the three or so rares I'm looking for. BTW even though I'm a force god/mind doesn't count because Nar lilies only seem to show up in normal. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[Cynric]

How come none of the charts have drops for the desert Zu and Pazuzu? Did ST forget they were there?

[Tycho]

On 2005-07-01 19:26, Cynric wrote:
How come none of the charts have drops for the desert Zu and Pazuzu? Did ST forget they were there?


No, they're the same as for Crater.

[RicoRoyal]

Redria Astark on Hard difficulty drops Yasakani Magatama. The drop charts say they drop Kusanagi.

[Tycho]

On 2005-07-22 21:24, RicoRoyal wrote:
Redria Astark on Hard difficulty drops Yasakani Magatama. The drop charts say they drop Kusanagi.


Thanks.