PSOBB: Gizonde vs Razonde

[SpinCycle]

I read often from past posts here that Gizonde is better than Razonde at high levels.

So at approximately what tech level does Gizonde overtake Razonde on effectiveness?

[EuLoGy]

depends what char and wepon your using.. for example Fomars excel in Gi attacks so Gizonde would be the right thing for them... Fonewmns excel in Ra attacks so Razonde for them.

[Blitzkommando]

Gizonde has a better attack pattern. That is why it is called better than Razonde. This becomes especially true with high levels of the disks. Gizonde just targets better and faster than Razonde.

[PJ]

On 2005-06-19 18:30, EuLoGy wrote:
depends what char and wepon your using.. for example Fomars excel in Gi attacks so Gizonde would be the right thing for them... Fonewmns excel in Ra attacks so Razonde for them.


But FOnewm also gets a Gi-tech boost (I believe), so it is a matter of which technique is better.

Gizonde is faster, that's about it (Although it is so much faster that it is better)

Although for looks... ahh, I dunno, unless you have the 3 Gol Dragons and you're doing the super cool chain, Razonde looks pretty cool too http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[SpinCycle]

So it's all still "subjective" in the end?

I have FOmarl on PSOBB. I decided to pick only 2 techs from each elemental tree to stick with, to save some spots on hotkey bar for supportive stuffs. Plus, that L + Y button (or Ctrl + End) menu seem wee bit slow (even though I try to use as fast as I could) in most critical moment of battle.

Anyway, I chose Foie and Rafoie for Fire, and Barta and Rabarta for Ice. As for thunder I want Zonde and Gi or Ra. But I can't decide between Gizonde and Razonde. Both seem too good to pass one of them up.

so any suggestions and ideas?

ADDED: Oh, and for tech-spamming weapons, I cycle thru the three 9 star wands and use a color merge (color of choice depends on the stage and/or quest).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SpinCycle on 2005-06-19 19:02 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SpinCycle on 2005-06-19 19:03 ]</font>

[Blitzkommando]

Gizonde, it has a farther reach and faster cast time. Plus it doesn't use up as much TP in the end. That and it looks pretty darn cool when hitting multiple enemies.

[Tycho]

Will Gizonde cover the radius you need? Use that.
Enemies are all around you? Razonde.

[Saffran]

Gizonde, it has a farther reach

Nah, Razonde can hit ennemies in the next room, provided they have spawned already...

I'm sing Gizonde because I'm too lazy to change between Boss and Dungeon, though I'll admit I could actually ditch another spell (like, RestaGrantz) and stick with both.

[Hrith]

I find Gizonde a very poor technique compared to Razonde =/

Razonde does need to lock to hit, its range is shorter by a few inches, and it covers a MUCH wider area.
Razonde also hits through walls and doors.

Gizonde's targeting system is the worst in the game, you can actually miss, with a technique !

Monsters behind you ? nothing you can do about it -- contrary to Rafoie, which can hit monsters behind you even if you were aiming at one in front of you.

Gizonde is decent at best, if all monsters are in front of you, and not too close to you.

It's good for Sil Dragon, Barba Ray and Gal Gryphon, that's it.

Razonde is the best tech you can use, it has the best targeting system, it has incredible range, it covers the most area of all the techs (with Gifoie, but Gifoie is slow).
Razonde is also perfect for stunning Megid-spitters (priceless in Ep2), something most Forces forget to do, while it's their job.

I say Gizonde is crap, like Gibarta; and Razonde is probably the most usefull attack tech in the game.

And Razonde looks uber cool at Lv 27+, but that's subjective http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Tycho]

Kef, I agree that it's great there's a tech that's great for stunning, rather than dealing damage. But...



On 2005-06-20 04:52, Kef wrote:
Monsters behind you ? nothing you can do about it


Yeah, except like... turn around, then cast it. Don't say you can't turn around in case like when you're being 'threaded' by a Grass Assassin or Crimson Assassin, when that happens, just first cast Zonde (more damage than Razonde too) to turn around.

[Hrith]

The damage difference between Gi and Razonde is not huge. Razonde is still a powerful technique.

And you missed my point. If there are monster behind you besides monsters in front of you. What are you gonna do? Turn around? Cast 10 Gizonde instead of 6 Razonde?

To make it a bit better, you'd have to run around until all mosters are in front of you (wasting a lot of time), and not let them get too close or you're gonna miss half of them.
Gizonde sucks, period.

I also forgot a major advantage to Razonde, Gizonde on RAmarl/HUnewearl is totally useless, while Razonde Lv 20 already owns.

[Dana]

On 2005-06-20 07:20, Kef wrote:


I also forgot a major advantage to Razonde, Gizonde on RAmarl/HUnewearl is totally useless, while Razonde Lv 20 already owns.



to be honest i rarely use and techs on my HUne or RAmarl other than the usual...in fact i only use Gizonde as it's quicker to open boxes(lazy me)

*if you have to use those techs on a HUne or RAmarl isn't something wronge?

oops for got about mu FOne

well she uses what ever is needed at that point......maybe it's being offline but i don't need to use razonde as enemies are NORMALLY infront of me:S......

There is the exeption of GDV or anything that BLOWS MAGID AT ME...then i agree RAZONDE!!!!!!!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dana_ranger on 2005-06-20 07:53 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

My opinion: Razonde is too slow, Rafoie and Rabarta make better stunning techs than either Ra or Gizonde, and Gizonde's main use is for boss fights and knocking things weak to it around(Also keeping Mericarols from moving if you're a male FO with L30, but). Razonde's main use is... Opening boxes after Vol Opt?(And even then the one behind you isn't opened...) But, as I said, that's just my opinion.

The fact of the matter: Neither Kef, nor I, nor anyone else is the supreme high god of PSO and PSO tactics. There are a billion methods of playing, and most of them work just as well as any other method.

So, really... Just use both for a while, switch back and forth, and see what YOU like better. Don't let a bunch of dorks with no lives tell you how to play YOUR character. 'Cause frankly, as long as you're keeping up on the damage and not dying every two seconds? Great. You're playing perfectly. Who gives a shit if anyone else approves of how you're doing it?

[Tycho]

Kef: In my post I did mention to use Razonde when surrounded, you just did not specify there were monsters all around you in your scenario. ;



On 2005-06-20 09:06, Ian-KunX wrote:


Ofcourse anyone has the right to completely suck and to be stupid (or at least not try to play as well as possible when not having fun and screwing around), but that doesn't mean everyone wants to.
Not being able to discuss stuff beats the purpose of a message board. Or are forums a place for n00b questions? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

[PJ]

You don't have to waste time getting all the enemies in front of you for Gizonde to work. Although Razonde does have the full 360 degree radius, Gizonde has an excellent radius, not just in front of it. (I think it extends farther than 180, but I'm not sure)

I don't generally use Zonde-series techs anyways, so what do I know >_>;; Zonde on Mericarol if they're far enough away and Gizonde on Sil/Gal/Gol (But only when thewy split in 3, otherwise Foie still does more damage) so I really don't see many situations where Razonde is needed.

Rafoie is my attack tech of choice for all my non-droid characters anyways >_>;

[Hrith]

Gizonde's radius is less than 180, and if a monster is too close to you, your char will turn to target it, missing the others.
That and the fact that you can only hit a limited amount of monsters when surrounded make Gizonde useless.

Sorry Tycho, it seemed very obvious to me that I was talking about a scenario where you are already fighting monsters in front of you.

Dana, if you are not using attack techs, you may have picked the wrong char.

Razonde is not slower than Rafoie or Rabarta... <_< not at the same Lv, anyway.

Rafoie is good for stunning monsters, too, but not like Razonde is, so those techs are complementary, not opposed.

[Sitka]

I have mentioned before, but on topic, Razonde is THE tech to quickly annihilate Maximum Attack quests.

More so than any other tech, I was able to blitz my way through forest-caves-mines using Razonde almost exclusively on my forces.

If I'm soloing with a fonewearl, than summit moon, foie merge and foie/barta/zonde/megid for the most part. Fonewm, psycho wand or barehanded, rafoie merge, rafoie/razonde/rabarta. For the other two forces, razonde for quickly erradicating areas works pretty well.

I am not a fan of gi-techs with very few exceptions.

And of course on the above, that's when I play a force solo, but I'll switch to support/tag/distract when with teammates.

[PrinceBrightstar]

Spin, you should have been around on the Dreamcast v1 days. To access other techs you had to go into the menu and manually select it.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2005-06-20 09:27, Tycho wrote:

Ofcourse anyone has the right to completely suck and to be stupid (or at least not try to play as well as possible when not having fun and screwing around), but that doesn't mean everyone wants to.
Not being able to discuss stuff beats the purpose of a message board. Or are forums a place for n00b questions? http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif



Oh, so using a tech I find superior makes me 'completely suck' and means I'm 'stupid'? Nice job on the attempted flame, darling, but it doesn't work like that.

There are as many ways of playing PSO as there are players. Yes, some do comparitively 'suck', but most of them are just as valid as all the others, and just as effective. For example, I hate Swords. I like Partisans. I use Partisans. Is this a perfectly good, effective method of playing? Well, yes, it is. Is it the 'approved' method? Well, no. Does it matter? Well, no.

Yes, there are different play styles and different tactics, and they work, too! If we all just went with the 'accepted best', there'd be nothing but HUcasts with TJ-swords, Jizais and Red Handguns, RAmarls with Frozen Shooters, S-Rank Needles and Mille Marteux(sp), and FOnewearls with Psycho Wands.

Thank the Great Light that there are different playstyles.

Sure, we can discuss our feelings on things, but there is no one true way. A melee RAcast is just as valid a character choice as a Pwand-toting FOnl. Not just the Kef & Tycho-approved choices.

Which goes back to what I said: Try for yourself. See what YOU like, not what the elitists with their egofests say you MUST do. Playing in a way that you find effective and enjoyable does not make you suck, and it does not make you stupid. You're playing the game to have fun, right, not to prove how big your internet penis is, I presume? Then experiment. Try new things. Find stuff you enjoy doing. Melee with your FOmarl if you want. Make her a ghetto Ranger. It's your character. We can debate for you until we're blue in the face, but in the end, all that really matters is what works for YOU. Not what works for Kef, or Tycho, or me, or anyone else.

(And wow, yes, newbies are allowed to ask questions, despite the popular belief on these forums...)

[Skorpius]

All of my intelligence and experience in life is all void now because I prefer playing a certain way on a video game, thanks to certain users in this topic.

Now, with all sarcasm aside, stop making yourselves look like complete jackasses. It makes me respect you less when you try and insult people because they don't conform to your personal preferences. I really am ashamed of you guys.

[Hrith]

On 2005-06-20 11:43, Ian-KunX wrote:
There are as many ways of playing PSO as there are players.That line is so stupid...
I hate the "to each his own" argument beyond words. It's the both the epitome of idiocy and uselessness.

Besides, Tycho was not directly addressing you.

Also, no one said "use that or die" or "play like that or die".
Furthermore, no matter how hard some people advice others, it's just a board discussion; no one is threatening you with a gun to play in a specific way.

And when I play online, I see people playing differently from me, and yet they do not suck (or well, very rarely).

1) you're assuming what our intentions are, while you have no clue what they are.

2) you might be giving our influence too much credit; as I just said, people play how they like in the end, our influence is limited.
I mean, for instance, no matter how well somebody is advised, if he sucks, good advice won't make him a good player.

People make such threads looking for actual inputs, not "try for yourself" pitiful replies. If the poster's intention was to try for himself, he would not have created the thread.

I may have quoted Ian-kun, but my reply is not personally addressed to anyone, just to all that feel concerned bu it

[Saiffy]

Zonde > j00


There, now the topic went to hell.

[Tycho]

Ian, that reply was sort of because of this (see quote), I didn't mean I disapprove of your own opinions.


Don't let a bunch of dorks with no lives tell you how to play YOUR character. Who gives a shit if anyone else approves of how you're doing it?

[rena-ko]

*applauds*

the infernal trio killed yet another thread. very nicely done.

-_-;;