PSO Story-Related/PSO Info 2

[Dhylec]

Please continue all discussion on PSO story & information here
The original thread (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=73795&forum=12&322) is still available for reference

[Daikarin]

Oh, right. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Even_Jin on 2005-07-21 03:52 ]</font>

[DezoPenguin]

(Hm...utterly dead thread here!)

Okay, here's one for you: The Hunter's Guild. Just what the heck IS this organization and how does it operate?

I mean, consider what we know:

The PSOBB website (despite the dubious canonity of its information due to internal errors) says that the Guild was created by the government to organize and control the activities of the mercenary Hunters. It also says that many Hunters remained outside the Guild and it was these who became famous for their mercenary activities during the ongoing strife on Coral.

During the Forest section of Ep. I, the woman outside the Guild states, however, that the Guild is independent of the military and government and enjoys "total extraterritoriality within the Guild." Extraterritoriality generally refers to something like an embassy, which while located within Nation A is considered part of Nation B and subject only to Nation B's laws.

Questions of the ability of the Guild and government's cross powers crops up notably in "Soul of Steel." There, WORKS has reached an agreement with the Guild which forbids hunters to enter an area of Ragol. In this case, hunters would be subject to military regulations (i.e. "shoot to kill"), which implies, though, that under normal circumstances the military has no legal authority over hunters. Sakon also threatens the PC with having his/her license pulled ("We can make it so you never set foot on Ragol again!"), though this may just be a lot of hot air.

Then, look at the nature of some of the Guild Quests. While some are straightforward enough and fall within the more general mission of the Guild to investigate Ragol and Pioneer 1, others raise a few eyebrows. "Journalistic Pursuit" clearly involves helping Nol with illegal behavior (Ragol is off-limits to civilians and there's a media blackout in place), and yet the Guild's quest listing states this illegal purpose. "The Grave's Butler" similarly involves taking a non-Hunter private citizen down to Ragol (although for a less "legally" offensive purpose). "Doc's Secret Plan" and "Soul of Steel" involve requests from Dr. Montague to go outside his lawful authority, and yet the Guild posts these quests.

(It would be different, of course, if the Guild didn't know what was going on, but when the player walks up to the Guild counter the illegal nature of the quest listing is immediately obvious.)

So how does this work? Does Guild "extraterritoriality" protect hunters from arrest if found committing illegal acts? Or does it work to protect the client only? How did this extraterritorality come about? Who authorized it and for what purpose?

(Likewise, it's clear that clients can either post a general offer or request specific hunters for a job, as in "Black Paper," "Seat of the Heart," or "Soul of Steel"--merely a mechanical detail, but a point to be made)

[A2K]

Heh, super-dead thread... anyway...!

Sonic Team has done a bit of retconning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon) on the matter, it seems, but I think it's still within the realm of explainability.

The government may have created the Hunter's Guild, but the Guild basically goes about its business without anyone keeping all that close an eye on it at all. It doesn't protect hunters, per se, rather, despite being a government creation, it simply does not report every little insignificant detail about quest postings.

It seems that other organizations such as the Lab or the Military which are supposedly vestiges of Principal Tyrell's administration are autonomous to the same agree (although in those cases support from the homeworld contributes to their abilities as well.)

[Eihwaz]

I always thought that Hunters were basically mercenaries, and the Hunter's Guild is just a centralized way of giving them jobs.

I've always wondered how some of the various items amd things from the game work. Scape Dolls/Ragol Ring, for instance. Ian and I talked about those a while ago, and we discussed theories ranging from re-synching your "soul" with your body to making a clone of your dead body and copying your memories into it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[PJ]

On 2006-02-18 19:52, Eihwaz wrote:
to making a clone of your dead body and copying your memories into it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



This can't be true, since that's a new thing introduced in Episode 3

Something tells me that's the point, consiidering it came from Ian http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[HUnewearl_Meira]

I suggest that whatever it is that they do to revive you in the Hospital there, Scape Dolls function on the same principle.

[Eihwaz]

If they could create a piece of technology that could instantly bring you back from the brink of death to full health, why would they still have hospitals? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[HUnewearl_Meira]

1. The equipment used in the hospital is larger, more potent, re-useable, less portable.
2. The Scape Doll is smaller, portable, good for a single use, not immediately available.

Both are rather expensive, of course.

[Skorpius]

On 2006-02-18 19:54, PJ wrote:


On 2006-02-18 19:52, Eihwaz wrote:
to making a clone of your dead body and copying your memories into it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



This can't be true, since that's a new thing introduced in Episode 3

Old Phantasy Star games used clones as a revival tactic. So, no, it's nothing new to the 'series'.

[PJ]

But new to the PSO timeline I believe, I'll need to replay through the story of Ep3 again to see if they treat the cloning stuff as, "omgnewandamoozing!" or if it's just, well, mentioned.

Although I believe it's new to Ep3 (Again, PSO storyline) because everyone's so Hush-hush about what happens to Kranz.

[Saiffy]

I think it's a matter that you weren't meant to look into it that much, bur regardless...

Scape dolls/Ragol Ring revives you after dying. Perhaps in the same way a Moon Atomizer does(I always assumes you threw them at your dead teammates, and it brought them back to life after coming into contact with you). And since Scapes/Ragol Ring are in your inventory, they're technically in contact with you at all time, and therefore revive you when you die....or something... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

I'm gonna stick with my first idea though, looking into it too much.

[shinobu_seta]

I don't really think they refered to it as a new technology or anything in Episode 3.

I wish someone would explain why the clone shop wouldn't bring Nei back after a certain story event http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Did they only just realize that she was a Newman and their fear/racism kicked in? It's a tough game after she's gone -_-

[A2K]

According to PSO3, aren't memories "saved" or something in the Section ID medallion things? That in itself might not be "new" as it might be going on in Ep. 1/2/4, just never mentioned at all.



On 2006-02-18 21:45, shinobu_seta wrote:

I wish someone would explain why the clone shop wouldn't bring Nei back after a certain story event http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Did they only just realize that she was a Newman and their fear/racism kicked in? It's a tough game after she's gone -_-


Maybe something about Neifirst kicking the bucket had something to do with being unable to clone/revive Nei.

[Eihwaz]

On 2006-02-18 21:41, Saiffy wrote:
(I always assumes you threw them at your dead teammates, and it brought them back to life after coming into contact with you)


I want fanart of that. Someone heroically throws a cute little doll at a lifeless corpse. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Anyway, I seem to remember while talking about Ep3 story with PJ, that he mentioned something about Section IDs storing your memories and stuff.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

All right, the deal with Kranz getting cloned in Episode 3, is that it was made possible with the C.A.R.D. technology; the same method used to reproduce enemy creatures. He forgot all of his memories from the previous couple of days, because he neglected to do his mind-scan thing when he came in to work that morning. Furthermore, I believe that the cloning was a big deal to them specifically because they didn't have it previously. They were concerned about the ethics of it.

Concerning how the Moon Atomizers are used, consider that an "Atomizer" is a device that produces a spray from a liquid, such as is commonly seen on bottles of perfume.

Finally, about why they couldn't clone Nei. Sega of America's localization team really dropped the ball on this one. There is a fan-translated ROM that explains it really quite well. What happened, is that by the time they could get her to the clone labs, Nei's DNA sequence had degraded so much that she couldn't be cloned.

[Skorpius]

EP3 Tangent:

Skorpius: I just remembered something.
Skorpius: Episode 3 might be an alternate reality, based around the "insane Kireek" storyline.
Skorpius: Because, frankly, he appears in one of the downloadable quests.
Skorpius: Reality, timeline, whatever.
Skorpius: WHICH WOULD EXPLAIN THE LACK OF EPISODE 4 CRAP

Something I said to Ian and Maridia, over AIM, and I didn't feel like retyping it in paragraph form.

Thoughts?

[EphekZ]

eh, I have a little question.

If I remember correctly ep.2 takes place after caves?
(correct me please if I am wrong.) then how does the lab know about gilchics and Dimenians and all other mines + ruins enemies? Isn't the story line about you venturing solo and finding out all this crap about rico and stuff?

[Sgt_Shligger]

Wow... i learned a lot about PSO.... never played the original PS's. My friend always wondered why they "threw Olga away" and now i can explain that. Where does all this story come from? I noticed some plot within missions but that was about it until ep2 when i started reading Flowen's story.
So Flowen fought Dark Falz with an army and took heavy injuries and was altered with the D-cell that turnded him into Olga? Rico just died fighting Falz.
My last question... why does Olga "drop" Dark Flow after you kill him? Is the blade corrupt with D-cells? Did ST want to eliminate any trace of story from a "cutscene?"

[EphekZ]

On 2006-02-19 10:15, SgtShligger wrote:

So Flowen fought Dark Falz with an army and took heavy injuries and was altered with the D-cell that turnded him into Olga? Rico just died fighting Falz.



Dr.Osto started "toying" with Flowen after he signed his death certificate. rico was basically eatin by falz.

[A2K]

On 2006-02-19 00:19, Skorpius wrote:
EP3 Tangent:

Skorpius: I just remembered something.
Skorpius: Episode 3 might be an alternate reality, based around the "insane Kireek" storyline.
Skorpius: Because, frankly, he appears in one of the downloadable quests.
Skorpius: Reality, timeline, whatever.
Skorpius: WHICH WOULD EXPLAIN THE LACK OF EPISODE 4 CRAP

Something I said to Ian and Maridia, over AIM, and I didn't feel like retyping it in paragraph form.

Thoughts?



I always had the theory that the Kireek you encounter might not have been the first, nor will he be the last.

With that said, Kireek is in Episode IV as well. Does anyone know if Episode IV's Gov-General quests differ if you've completed previous key Episode I & II ones?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2006-02-19 10:34 ]</font>

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-02-19 10:15, SgtShligger wrote:
So Flowen fought Dark Falz with an army and took heavy injuries and was altered with the D-cell that turnded him into Olga? Rico just died fighting Falz.


"Olga Flow" is the product of a D-Cell infected Heathcliff Flowen having the AI, OLGA installed in him, in the Lab's futile attempt to be able to control Flowen once he's been completely taken over.

As for Rico, she didn't exactly "die" fighting Dark Falz. Dark Falz chose her body to be its host. She became Dark Falz as we know it.

[A2K]

If anything, Rico's subjugation was like a living death, really.

[Eihwaz]

For those who were previously unaware that the Dark Falz we fight is basically Rico's horrifyingly mutated body hosting Dark Falz's spirit, here's a few things that are clues.

During the first stage of Falz, if you have sharp eyes, you can notice that the human-like arm has a Red Ring on it.

During the second stage of Falz, you can clearly see the Red Ring on the vaguely human-shaped part of his body. The human part is also vaguely female in shape; you can see the curve of breasts.

The dead giveaway is during the third part, which occurs on Hard mode and up. After you defeat Falz, the spirit of Rico is freed. If the spirit looks odd to you, just look at any picture floating around of Rico.

[PJ]

On 2006-02-19 10:00, darkgunner wrote:

If I remember correctly ep.2 takes place after caves?
(correct me please if I am wrong.) then how does the lab know about gilchics and Dimenians and all other mines + ruins enemies? Isn't the story line about you venturing solo and finding out all this crap about rico and stuff?



That's because Episode 2 is after Episode 1, not in the middle of it. They also make references to Dark Falz.

[Sgt_Shligger]

Well... this is kind of a dumb question... i never beat ultimate mode and never passed falz'd first form in ultimate. Does he/she/it have a forth form just to bother us? I never found out. Also, does Olga get a third form?

[Skorpius]

On 2006-02-19 17:06, SgtShligger wrote:
Well... this is kind of a dumb question... i never beat ultimate mode and never passed falz'd first form in ultimate. Does he/she/it have a forth form just to bother us? I never found out. Also, does Olga get a third form?


No, and no.

[Sgt_Shligger]

And to think... i was expecting a final form.... foolish me... Dark Flaz [u]CAN'T get any more annoying..... do you think he heard me?

[Sharkyland]

On 2006-02-18 23:11, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
All right, the deal with Kranz getting cloned in Episode 3, is that it was made possible with the C.A.R.D. technology; the same method used to reproduce enemy creatures. He forgot all of his memories from the previous couple of days, because he neglected to do his mind-scan thing when he came in to work that morning. Furthermore, I believe that the cloning was a big deal to them specifically because they didn't have it previously. They were concerned about the ethics of it.

I dunno about ethics about that one. I think they cloned Kranz because he was getting closer to finding the location of the Germ. Yeah, he did skip that 'health' check like they do (which is actually the memory saving thingie)... though from what I heard, there is a chip implanted in the brain to capture these memories.

Also... I was thinking that Dol Grissen wanted to keep it a secret because he seriously wanted to create an army of super beings; therefore, he had to eleminate some of the humanoids in the OPSS incident that happened in 3099 where Han Walt took all the blame.


Concerning how the Moon Atomizers are used, consider that an "Atomizer" is a device that produces a spray from a liquid, such as is commonly seen on bottles of perfume.

Hmm, I didn't know that. Though I'm just acknowledging to some degree that certain items that suppose to work wonders was put there just to make the game a bit easier. When you know there is going to be an enemy that will kill you in one hit, I guess they had that 'backup' plan already figured out.


Finally, about why they couldn't clone Nei. Sega of America's localization team really dropped the ball on this one. There is a fan-translated ROM that explains it really quite well. What happened, is that by the time they could get her to the clone labs, Nei's DNA sequence had degraded so much that she couldn't be cloned.

That I didn't know.


On 2006-02-19 10:34, A2K wrote:
I always had the theory that the Kireek you encounter might not have been the first, nor will he be the last.

With that said, Kireek is in Episode IV as well. Does anyone know if Episode IV's Gov-General quests differ if you've completed previous key Episode I & II ones?

Not really. It seems like they are treating you like a different person. They seemed more focused on their job than you.

---

A.U.W. 3094 - There was a coup de' tat against Dol Grissen.

I'm guessing this was the part where the Arkz government comes into play.

A.U.W. 3105 - C.A.R.D. Developed.

---

Rrgh, so close with all this damn information. I just need the timeline from both 'Ragol Report' and the ep3 guidebook. Then I can begin my project which is my comic.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sharkyland on 2006-02-20 16:24 ]</font>

[Skorpius]

Kranz was cloned because he died.

[Sharkyland]

On 2006-02-20 16:24, Skorpius wrote:
Kranz was cloned because he died.

Yeah... I DOUBT the government was going to clone them because they just died, it's because there is something they need him to do. I mean Sil'fer and Ino'lis saw him get disintegrated, and Sil'fer is still in awe on 'how the hell did he survive that?'

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sharkyland on 2006-02-20 16:30 ]</font>

[EJ]

On 2006-02-19 10:34, A2K wrote:

I always had the theory that the Kireek you encounter might not have been the first, nor will he be the last.

With that said, Kireek is in Episode IV as well. Does anyone know if Episode IV's Gov-General quests differ if you've completed previous key Episode I & II ones?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2006-02-19 10:34 ]</font>

If you tell Sue your name in the solo quest, she will remember you but otherwise they will act like you never met.

I believe it's the same Kireek.

Also Ep2 is around a few months after EP1 and EP4 is like what during EP2 I think.

[Sharkyland]

I found this timeline on Jet Platnium's site:
- http://psotnl.merlinwebs.com/SummaryTimeline.html

---

Hmm when does EpIV start... that's a pretty good question imo. A meteor falls from outer space and crashes into Ragol. I really don't know how big the meteorite is, but it's kinda huge looking at the core in the final area; therefore, I have made a pressumption that it is similar to the asteroid that landed in Arizona since the crater site is roughly that size.

Therefore
- we would need to have the dust settle
- equipment being built
- monsters to mutate

My guess is a couple years after epII, but it can't be more than 10 years though because that would interfere with the EpIII.

[A2K]

I remember reading "five years" somewhere, but I have no idea when/where that was, unfortunately.

And based on the Episode IV Gov-Gen quests, I get the distinct impression that hunters (as in, you) were dispatched not too long after an initial "research team" was sent down and set up various equipment down there--meaning there wasn't a whole lot of time inbetween the meteor impact and the hunters adventuring in the area.

The odd thing to me is that it seems that most of the force of the "impact" was directed downward and not so much on the surface at all. Yes, there is a crater, but cacti and other short grasses and things are seen already growing in it. I'm surmising that that ground actually "sunk" by a partial subterrerean collapse rather than being forcibly pushed downward by the impact.

As for the monsters, it seems the grand majority of them are Native types. Although one has to wonder whether the underground desert is a natural formation or whether or not it's always been there. It takes quite a bit of time for crystals like the ones you see down there to grow... hmm.

What the heck was that light that redirected the meteor's path, anyway? There was some hearsay about some sort of ground-based weapon?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2006-02-21 22:56 ]</font>

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-02-21 22:46, A2K wrote:
What the heck was that light that redirected the meteor's path, anyway? There was some hearsay about some sort of ground-based weapon?


My understanding of it, is that it was the Heaven Striker.

[Sharkyland]

On 2006-02-21 22:46, A2K wrote:
I remember reading "five years" somewhere, but I have no idea when/where that was, unfortunately.

And based on the Episode IV Gov-Gen quests, I get the distinct impression that hunters (as in, you) were dispatched not too long after an initial "research team" was sent down and set up various equipment down there--meaning there wasn't a whole lot of time inbetween the meteor impact and the hunters adventuring in the area.

What I don't understand right now, meteor falls and creates a gigantic hole. Of course a route to the meteorite would just be accessible with just jumping down the hole, but I think ST removed the fact that the hole collasped and everyone had to take a different route just to get that area. Going through the area reminded me of Caves in a way, and of course the movie 'The Core'.


The odd thing to me is that it seems that most of the force of the "impact" was directed downward and not so much on the surface at all. Yes, there is a crater, but cacti and other short grasses and things are seen already growing in it. I'm surmising that that ground actually "sunk" by a partial subterrerean collapse rather than being forcibly pushed downward by the impact.

Well, we don't know the exact timeframe on when the meteor landed and when the people actually started exploring the area. Cacti are pretty environmental resistant (almost) and all they need is water and sunlight to actually survive. I will have to do agree with you about the subterranian caverns collasping causing to orb to fall until it hit the ground with a good foundation.


As for the monsters, it seems the grand majority of them are Native types. Although one has to wonder whether the underground desert is a natural formation or whether or not it's always been there. It takes quite a bit of time for crystals like the ones you see down there to grow... hmm.

Somewhere it was stated the meteorite has some photon radiation that caused some of the mutations of the native monsters to become what they have become. I don't think they could've been called Altered Beast either because Altered Beast were mutated by Beta772.


What the heck was that light that redirected the meteor's path, anyway? There was some hearsay about some sort of ground-based weapon?

Hmm, Light? I don't remember any light redirecting the meteor's path. I thought it was altered it's course due to the fact that something inside of Ragol was resonnating to it.


On 2006-02-22 12:30, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
My understanding of it, is that it was the Heaven Striker.

Heaven Striker project, hmm, I thought that 'project' died when it was Coral when Karen started to state that information to her father, Leo, about 'restarting the project'. Of course through the efforts of the MOTHER project, a Neo-Newman was created. A Neo-Newman was created to actually be able to harvest the photon ability. Rupika was a 'Neo-Newman' and WORKS I think used her like a compass to figure out where the meteroite was because she was always being 'called' to it.

I really do not know if the Heaven Striker was being rebuilt because most of the powerhouse of the WORKS army was on Pioneer I and they should've made something before the arrival of Pioneer 2. Though my only project that they worked on had to be the 'Mines'.

---

I love you people who ponder on this type of stuff. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sharkyland on 2006-02-22 17:30 ]</font>

[EJ]

I believe Leo himself said that the heaven striker was the one that redirect the meteor and crashed it on ragol, in one of the government mission.

I would like to know when ep4 takes place because I always thought it was either during EP2 or shortly after EP1 making it before the whole Olga incident.

[Eihwaz]

On 2006-02-22 18:15, ForceEJ wrote:
I would like to know when ep4 takes place because I always thought it was either during EP2 or shortly after EP1 making it before the whole Olga incident.


Why do you say that? I don't think Ep4 happens until after Ep2. If a massive meteor filled with special photons was redirected into Ragol by a beam of light, I'm sure it would've been mentioned somewhere in the lab.

Furthermore, in the opening FMV for Ep4, small fragments of the meteor slam into Pioneer2. I'm sure that would've been mentioned.

It's for these same reasons I don't think it takes place right after Episode 1, either. If it, Episode 4 would be Episode 2, and vice versa. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[A2K]

On 2006-02-23 10:22, Eihwaz wrote:
It's for these same reasons I don't think it takes place right after Episode 1, either. If it, Episode 4 would be Episode 2, and vice versa. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif


Shouldn't it technically be Episode 3 then? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-02-23 12:16, A2K wrote:


On 2006-02-23 10:22, Eihwaz wrote:
It's for these same reasons I don't think it takes place right after Episode 1, either. If it, Episode 4 would be Episode 2, and vice versa. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif


Shouldn't it technically be Episode 3 then? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



I dunno, if we go by the pattern established in the original series (installment 3 of the franchise therefore takes place long after the 4th and final installment), then I'd say things are right where they should be, and Episode IV is the immediate successor to Episode II, whereas Episode III is different and nearly devoid of relation to the rest of the franchise.

[Sharkyland]

(I'm really starting to hate that XMODS Evolution Custom RCs crap)

Well in my opinion I don't think Episode II took too long to complete. I'm pretty sure the VR Spaceship and VR Temple can be completed within a day (one each maybe). Gal De Val, 3 switches, then Gal Gryphon. Probably in a day too. Seabed, transportation and layout of the area wouldn't take that long. I would say Episode II can be completed within a vicinity of a month.

Since there is no mention of WORKS what-so-ever. It's hard to pinpoint a clear set date for this though... with CCA you got the towers. Definitely Sue and Kireek had their hands full with 'Seat of the Heart' and wouldn't be able to pay attention to the Episode IV.

---

Of course, if RT was a reasonable quest (meaning it's part of the storyline), then that would have taken place BEFORE Episode IV because it was a similar VR similuation that uses CCA and Seabed and Towers. And with General Leo occupied with that quest, Episode IV hasn't started yet.

[Sgt_Shligger]

Not to be rude but the Heaven Striker is a gun you get bb... so a "handgun" redirected a meteor?

[PJ]

On 2006-02-23 21:16, SgtShligger wrote:
Not to be rude but the Heaven Striker is a gun you get bb... so a "handgun" redirected a meteor?



Yes



On 2006-02-23 21:14, Sharkyland wrote:
Of course, if RT was a reasonable quest (meaning it's part of the storyline), then that would have taken place BEFORE Episode IV because it was a similar VR similuation that uses CCA and Seabed and Towers. And with General Leo occupied with that quest, Episode IV hasn't started yet.



I think they make mention to the information you get in RT in the Episode 4 government quests.

[Sgt_Shligger]

Wait they used an arm cannon to deflect a meteor in ep3? That makes no sense.

[A2K]

I believe the handgun Heaven Striker is a smaller-scale version of the surface-to-orbital weapon.

[zandra117]

Is Heaven's Punisher the prototype for the Heaven Striker?

[zandra117]

We need more info about the episode 4 story. Please continue this discussion. We know little to nothing about the story of episode 4 because it seems that people have stopped focusing on the story and started focusing on killing things. The quest guides dont help at all because they offer pretty much no dialogue. Continue this discussion.

[Foxix]

I am not sure if this has been asked yet but I will anyway. Ok so I know that in PSO 1 rico left a message in ruins stating that there was no ancient civilization. I haven't played 3 in ages but I remember fighting some machine on ragol that I think is from the old civilization. So what is it? was there life on ragol or not, I really do need to know this http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Nai_Calus]

I honestly think of Ep3 half the time as sort of an alternate universe. >_> There are parts of it that simply can't be rectified with the storyline of Ep1 and Ep2 as we know them. (Even the linking quest, Blue Star Memories, seems to make little to no sense with, say, Endu's ending - If Dark Falz wasn't really defeated, and knowing how quickly rumours seem to spread among the Hunter's Guild, why the hell would anyone in the guild care about the 'Four Heroes' who supposedly defeated it? You can say 'Well, Break and Orland are kids', but Nef at the time doesn't seem to be the type to let people keep having erroneous ways of thinking if he can correct them, so that doesn't quite hold. If we say it really did keep coming back and it's just the first group of people to beat it, why should anyone care? Nor can you say it's the last group, since your character is supposed to be one of the four heroes in BSM, and Endu's ending establishes that the people who were supposedly fighting Falz and Olga at the time all died... Although I suppose that you could be a clone. XP But no mention is made in Ep2 or any of its quests of Dark Falz being around, let alone repeatedly coming back, and Ep2 almost certainly has to take place after Ep1 - Consider Elly and Calus, whose first quest you do in Mines, towards the end of the Ep1 quests(Particularily in the Sue subplot, since it's definitely a later quest there) - At the beginning of Ep2 we learn that Elly is working at the lab now, and that Calus is now the lab's AI. We learn in Seat of the Heart that Calus was modified before being restored, which presumably took some time. So it almost certainly takes place later on(Especially since in the Sue Subplot variant, Elly remembers you helping her before, and you likely wouldn't have time to go get involved with the Lab's investigation if you were still working for the government's investigation!)... Yet, no mention.

Which doesn't address your question much, since I don't remember much of that part and nobody has put up a full EpIII script yet to go check it, but it does raise the point that Ep3 can and does contradict Ep1&2 at times, so if there is a contradiction there, you can just see it as another thing to be annoyed about. (And another reason for me to deny the existance of ep3. XP)

And yes, DOES anyone play EpIV for the story? Has anyone even ever considered doing a script for it? It's been what, a year and a half now since the Japanese release, and still I can't find anything about the story, and all threads asking about it get ignored. (Although from what I can tell, ST STILL hasn't ever resolved what happens with Elly and Calus, and while you can argue that nobody cares until you're blue in the face, they obviously cared enough to carry the story on from Ep1 into Ep2 and make the largest, most ambitious story quest in all of PSO about them. XP )

Though, Ruins is supposedly a spaceship. If you're desperate for a PS-PSO link, one of the worldships that escaped from Palma when it was destroyed in PSII, though I don't agree with it being the Alisa III, or PSIII's stating that only two worldships survived, so there. (For one thing, where the hell did Coral's people come from, then, since cultural things like meseta and technique names imply that Coral's people are descended from Palman survivors? The Neo Palm? But they would have known about the Alisa III and surely someone somewhere ought to still know about it by PSO's era to think 'Gee, yknow, it's been x thousand years since that last time, I wonder if maybe...' Though this gets somewhat more into PS discussion than PSO.

(For the record, I do not actually believe in any sort of PS-PSO link as far as canon goes. Though amusingly enough in the fic I'm writing, there is a link. I like to play fast and loose with continuity in fics, I suppose, heh.)

[Foxix]

errr you lost me... I gotta play the original PS games http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif but PS and PSO are seperate universes/dimensions or whatever you wanna call it, ST even said it themselves that they are not connected. So I will go ahead and just assume that rico was wrong and that there was life on ragol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif so I can go ahead and start work on my fanfic... of sorts... i have also heard the debate of the possibilty that ragol is actually earth, I guess some people look out of pioneers windows and notice land formations identical to that of our planet... woo more stuff to add into fic http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[DezoPenguin]

On 2006-08-08 05:23, Ian-KunX wrote:
I honestly think of Ep3 half the time as sort of an alternate universe. >_> There are parts of it that simply can't be rectified with the storyline of Ep1 and Ep2 as we know them.


Neither my wife nor I got very far into Ep. 3; the gameplay just got in the way of our desire to enjoy the story. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Good soundtrack, though...

But seriously, from what you say, that makes sense. Of course, each ending of Ep. III is almost an "alternate history" in and of itself...



Ep2 almost certainly has to take place after Ep1 - Consider Elly and Calus, whose first quest you do in Mines, towards the end of the Ep1 quests(Particularily in the Sue subplot, since it's definitely a later quest there) - At the beginning of Ep2 we learn that Elly is working at the lab now, and that Calus is now the lab's AI. We learn in Seat of the Heart that Calus was modified before being restored, which presumably took some time. So it almost certainly takes place later on(Especially since in the Sue Subplot variant, Elly remembers you helping her before, and you likely wouldn't have time to go get involved with the Lab's investigation if you were still working for the government's investigation!)... Yet, no mention.


Actually, Ep. 2 *definitely* takes place after Ep. 1 from its own internal references. Remember how Flowen's transmission refers to "the saviors of the red captive child"? If you're willing to concede that he's talking about Rico (and reasonably, who wouldn't believe that?), then Dark Falz is defeated before Flowen sends his initial message, which is picked up by the Lab, which starts off Ep. 2.

Conversely, it's likely that although that incarnation of Falz was destroyed, there's clearly some long-term continuation of the existence of Falz's D-Factor offshoots; else, wouldn't P2 be able to move in on Ragol, send in science teams to exploit the Ruins, yadda yadda yadda, and apparently, they don't. Perhaps the "Germ" or the "Shadow" or whatever-the-frag it is (like I said, I never did get into Ep. 3) constitutes either the core Falz entity without Rico's body, or else the leftover remnant. If there's one thing that the entire franchise has taught us, it's *hard* to permanently drop Falz.

So, if you're motivated to work the continuity into a semi-cohesive whole, you could suggest that the "Four Heroes" were celebrated because they defeated Dark Falz, but that permanent exploitation of the Ruins was prevented because the D-Factor creatures kept coming back.



And yes, DOES anyone play EpIV for the story? Has anyone even ever considered doing a script for it? It's been what, a year and a half now since the Japanese release, and still I can't find anything about the story, and all threads asking about it get ignored. (Although from what I can tell, ST STILL hasn't ever resolved what happens with Elly and Calus, and while you can argue that nobody cares until you're blue in the face, they obviously cared enough to carry the story on from Ep1 into Ep2 and make the largest, most ambitious story quest in all of PSO about them. XP )


The lack of Ep. 4 scripts has driven me crazy, too, especially because I don't have BB (or a broadband connection, come to think of it...), since I'm a conspiracy-story wonk (funny that I love those kind of stories despite thinking their real-life equivalents are idiotic fantasies...but I digress...) and the twisted plots of WORKS, the government, and Black Paper all seem tied up in it.





(For the record, I do not actually believe in any sort of PS-PSO link as far as canon goes. Though amusingly enough in the fic I'm writing, there is a link. I like to play fast and loose with continuity in fics, I suppose, heh.)



I agree that there's no link. I think we all wondered about that when PSO originally came out, and many theories were floated, but the more that happened the more that it seems that PS and PSO are simply set in different narrative universes (and that PSU represents yet a third such universe), each with certain fundamental similarities that define the franchise. Simply put, through four episodes, PSO has had extensive opportunities to cement its place in PS meta-continuity through references to Algo, to Earth, to Espers, etc., etc. and has refused to do so, instead focusing exclusively on its own story and including only "throwaway" fan references (Rika's Claw, for example) which are worth a wink and a nod but not a narrative.

Of course, you can build any kind of linkage you want in fanfiction, since you're providing the narrative structure. Personally, I'm partial to the idea that the Coralians are Earthmen (i.e. that Coral was itself a colony of Earth) and that some time in the future of Ragol, they become completely corrupted by Dark Force and pack off for Algo. Explains everything except why "meseta" is the name for the Coralian currency.

[Foxix]

hmm I have another question http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif what was dark falz's daddy named again? and If I remember correctly it is not a single entity exactly right? but rather a culmination of many evil things? oh and isn't there also supposed to be some good entity as well? I just need some info on these beings.

[Sharkyland]

I've only written a few scripts from epIV... like this (from government quest 9-5):
- Dr. Montegue:
On Coral, we discovered a new lifeform in a meteor that struck our planet. Its cells
contained an energy much like our manmade Photon technology. We termed this abnormal
Photon presence as the 'D-factor'. The D-factor has a great effect on natural and
artificial lifeforms. It infests, fuses with things, and makes them evolve. One of
the results of our experiments was the development of Mags. This has all been kept
secret from the public, naturally. You know that Mags all evolve and change in
different ways, yes? But even the scientists who did the experiments were unsure
how and why. No one knows even if the Photon Mirage effect was an intended
development. Anyway, after Mags, we began to create androids and Newmans, as well.
Thanks to the D-factor the military was able to create 'Emotional AI'. Many
advancements are perpetuated by the military. That's just how it always seems. In
any case, I approved the project. They wanted to use the Emotional AI for military
purposes. And they needed other systems to work in tandem with it. The unification
of Mags, androids, and other weapon systems... They needed to create MOTHER. All of
this has happened in concordance with the MOTHER Project. However, under WORKS
guidance, the MOTHER Project failed. But Leo Grahart apparently hasn't given up.
Rupika has the D-factor infused with her DNA. He wants to use this to start the
MOTHER Project anew. And, so, we have our present situation.

Most of the others disappeared when my other computer started dying... (yes, I played epIV for story)

[Foxix]

why is it I keep asking questions yet I can't seem to get any answers O_o? Am I in the wrong thread?

[DezoPenguin]

On 2006-08-10 19:58, Sharkyland wrote:
- Dr. Montegue:

Anyway, after Mags, we began to create androids and Newmans, as well.



Sheesh, there it is again. So it's not just the official website that has Monty creating Newmen, but the game itself. Did they somehow miss that he himself is a Newman? Or can we now grit our teeth and postulate that the initial Newman-creation project was done to adult human test subjects?

Heck, come to think of it, cloning technology hadn't been invented at that time in PSO, so maybe "newmen" are all created in PSO through genetic alteration of existing humans--it's just easier to mass-produce them from human babies, creating the need for the hyper-growth drugs. We might just be assuming because of Nei and Rika that PSO newmen are completely lab-grown.

[Solstis]

On 2006-08-10 16:46, Foxix wrote:
hmm I have another question http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif what was dark falz's daddy named again? and If I remember correctly it is not a single entity exactly right? but rather a culmination of many evil things? oh and isn't there also supposed to be some good entity as well? I just need some info on these beings.



From Earlier:

I'm pretty sure that Ragol is not Earth, as there's no Mother Brain involved in PSO and in PSII you encountered Earthlings (and died?). It wouldn't make sense for there to be no traces of Earth's architecture left.

I suppose that the spaceship could be the Landale (Ruins are a bit too small to be a worldship, I think), but I'm just stabbing in the dark.

Dark Falz is the super evil entity, or, rather, a manifestation of it that blows through town every now and then. Yeah, there was a good entity, but I think that it sacrificed itself to seal away Falz and yadda yadda yadda.

Oh. Mother Brain. MOTHER. Do they enjoy regurgitating names just to confuse people? 10 bucks on that SEED in PSU has nothing to do with the older one.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2006-08-11 10:48 ]</font>

[DezoPenguin]

Re: Dark Falz's origins.

DF in PSO isn't given an origin. Foxix appears to be confusing it with Dark Falz/Dark Force in the original Phantasy Star series.

In those games, the "Great Light" fought a war with the "Profound Darkness" and sealed the "Darkness" outside our dimension. The Algo solar system (where PS I, II, and IV take place) was itself the seal. However, the strength of the seal fluctuates, and when it weakens (every 1000 years, natch), the strongest part of the "Profound Darkness's hate-filled soul" is able to escape--that's what Dark Force is. DF's ultimate purpose was to destroy Algo and thereby free the "Profound Darkness" from its imprisonment.

Adding to the confusion, in the Japanese games, the "Light" and "Darkness" were not individuals but races of spiritual entities. After the Dark race was sealed away, they melded together into a kind of amalgam singular entity, though. And the Light race died out in the intervening millennia. In the English translation, the Light and Darkness were always singular entities and the Light didn't die, just packed up and left the galaxy.

Oh, and the Profound Darkness is a lot more like Falz's mommy than its daddy. At least judging by its third form's body parts. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Foxix]

Eh? No I never played the originals but I plan on buying the collenction for the GBA, or just dowloading them over the Wii when they inevitably come out. And as for earth not being ragol, how do we know? Think about it, PSO was never stated to be directly relate to the original PS series. If enough time passed I am sure most of our structures would crumble and decay and there would be nothing left, and given dark falz's presence on the planet it would give a reason as to why there are no traces of life on ragol... we all died http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. Not only that but as far as I can remember (not sure about ep 3, what were those robots you fight near the end?) I don't think the Pioneer 2 crew had the recources to scan and evaluate and entire planet for ruins >_> to me ragol being earth is an option.

I would imagine that the translation crew decided to make the great lite a single entity simply to mimic some common religions and help in making the game more relatable.

I realize that dark force/falze is not the profound darknes but given the references to the seal and the name itself it's kind of obvious what dark falz came from >_>.

So did the great light just pack up and leave or did it/they sacrifice themselves? I have heard that the translations between the EN/JP versions are so different that they can't really be considered the same game.

[Nai_Calus]

Ragol. Has. Two. Bloody. Moons. For. The. Love. Of. Rati. Can. We. Kill. That. Fscking. Theory. Once. And. For. All. *explode* DX WATCH THE EP1&2 OPENING MOVIE. PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR SURROUNDINGS IN THE FIRST PART OF JUNGLE. YOU CAN SEE THEM. BOTH OF THEM. AT ONCE. *weep* (Speaking of which, how does Ragol avoid having really nasty tides? The larger moon must have a really low density or something. >_>; )

Annnnd 'Montegue created newmen' rears its ugly head again. Uh, hello? ST? Please to be sharing that fine crack you've got there, I want some of that shit. 'Cause... Dude. WTF. What the motherfrippin' monkey farg. That's it, any PSO that's not Ep1&2 is invalid and does not exist. Enough with the retconning and inconsistencies already. Just... No more. DX

(Inasmuch as I will admit to the existence of Ep3, I'm rooting for Ino'lis. Yep, Ms. Hopeless herself. Poor girl, I want her to get her chance to redeem herself in her own eyes.)

[Foxix]

So it has 2 moons >_> is it not possible for us to obtain a second one? There are planets out there with over 4, whats stopping this planet from getting another one in the future?

[ColonD]

I'm sorry that I haven't played ep4, only episode 1,2, and 3.
I kinda agree the ep 3 + 4 are seperate universes of possiblitys, as it seems the troubles of D-stuff are ended with a thurough wacking/carding.

With that set aside, the Newman making Newmans.
Is this what it says in the english version?
Because, I think, I assume, that they mean they made, better, longer lasting, Newmans. And that might be what they ment to say.
(If you compare them to Rika and Nei, in the fact they are the same race, they do live longer, as Rika is 1, I beleive, but is aged to late-teens physically. And Sue? I don't know, but in ep2 she hasn't really aged that much, you notice.(They still age faster then humans I assume still though.))

Oh yes, and Mont McEars, could have easily made himself among the longer lasting due to D-goo being able to effect other living despite being already full grown or something.
(As there is definate time between Coral-Ragol. At least 7 years, plus research time. )
Or he could have been a Newman made, but he refrances the people before himself but in the same group of researchers as 'We'
Just putting in my five Meseta.

[zandra117]

What happened to pioneer 3? In the online episode 2 quest, Gallon's Shop, Paganini mentions that pioneer 3 had just launched or something like that. But pioneer 3 isn't in PSO episode 3 at all and PSO episode 3 takes place 20 something years after PSO episode 2. It only takes 7 years to make it to Ragol from Coral on a pioneer starship doesn't it?

Did Pioneer 3 get word of what was going on at Ragol's surface and go to an alternate place of settlement?

This evidence seems to support this theory from this page. http://camineet.net/camineet/theories/coral.asp

In "The Grave's Butler," Matha Blant finds messages from her family's butler, Blant, who brought her to Ragol on Pioneer 2 over the objections of her parents, scientists aboard Pioneer 1. One of Blant's messages says, "When Mr. Grave was chosen as a crew member for Pioneer 1, he told me, 'We won't be bringing Matha with us. Don't let her go on Pioneer 2.'" But despite the fact that Mr. Grave specifically forbids his daughter from following he and his wife to Ragol, we know that the Pioneers' homeworld, Coral, was ripping itself apart and was becomming uninhabitable. ("Our planet was tearing itself apart, we couldn't stop it," says one of the scientists in Principal Tyrell's office.) So my different question is: what exactly did Mr. Grave want to happen to his daughter Matha? He didn't want her to follow him and her mother to Ragol on Pioneer 2, we know that, but nor would he want her to die on Coral as the planet tore itself apart.

Logic dictates, therefore, that the Coralians must have had a second, option for fleeing from Coral. While some -- if not most -- residents of Coral fled to Ragol via Pioneer 1 and 2, others may have simply gone back home... to Algo.

But we know that the "Coralians" dont know about Algo because In episode 2 Elly says.

Let's see. According to the data...
"We have determined that 'Dragons' exist on Ragol. They live underground."
Back home, dragons only show up in myths and stories...
I can't believe such a creature actually exists on Ragol!
We know from the old PS games that dragons exist in Algo and are not myths and legends.

If the Coralians don't know about Algo, where else could they settle besides Ragol?

I will post my theory later after I think for a while.

[Nai_Calus]

Remember, though, that the entire Pioneer Project is basically a gigantic coverup. It is entirely possible that Coral is not as bad off as we are led to believe. Certainly in bad shape, and likely to eventually need to be evacuated, but very likely not the dire "we're all gonna die" situation the public is given. One wonders if, back on Coral, some miraculous 'new' bit of information reveals that Coral isn't as far gone as we all feared, it's OK, let's go on with our lives.

They wouldn't go back to Algol because they're not from it because PS and PSO aren't linked. XP

Though most theories of linking allow for enough time that Algol could easily have been forgotten - Some place PSO 800 or so years after PSIV(Which I dislike as it ignores the millennial cycle entirely, but eh). Curiously despite my aversion to theories in the fic I'm writing PS and PSO are linked. Though my own personal theory has PSO taking place 3084 years after the destruction of Palma. XP (Basically, the 'don't put all your eggs in one basket' idea. The Alisa III and the Neo Palm may be all that's left of their fleet if they're right about that, but if anyone had any sense around then at ALL they wouldn't have all gone off in the same direction. Or hell, even if nobody had had any sense, they still wouldn't have ALL gone off in the same direction, someone or several someones in a position to make such a decision would have been all 'Screw you, I like the look of that group of stars over THERE better, nyah'. Ruins is the remains of *a* worldship, but not the Alisa III, and Coral was populated by the people on another that managed to escape getting a DF on it. They ended up starting a new dating system and counted AW 1284 as the year AUW 1. Which is all pure, utter BS but it serves my desires for my fanfic, is somewhat plausible, and thus I like it. But it's certainly not canon, and I'm only including it here as an example.)

Indeed, someone or several someones might have *deliberately* tried to get it forgotten - What better way to quickly get everything settled and everybody in line than to as quickly as possibly after arriving somewhere, say, Coral, remove all signs and traces of the previous culture and act like you've been there all along? Hence dragons being myths... (Heh, wonder if Bob is a descendent of the dragons on Palma? Whose brilliant idea to bring a couple of *those* along was it if that were the case, I wonder? XD)

Incidentally, the 'seven years' thing is a widely held misconception. It does not take seven years to get to Ragol from Coral, it takes two. This is stated in the game. The misconception comes from confusing wording in the DC opening - Some more correct dating, years approximate:

3075 - Pioneer 1 leaves Coral.
3077 - Pioneer 1 arrives on Ragol, construction is begun on the Central Dome and certain other facilities.
3082 - Pioneer 2 leaves Coral
3084 - Pioneer 2 arrives at Ragol, seven years after the arrival of Pioneer 1.

(The PSOBB website gives the departure dates for Pioneer 1 and 2 as a year later than this, which directly contradicts information found in Episode 1. Older games take precedence over revisionist BS, thus, Pioneers 1 and 2 left in 3075 and 3082 respectively. Several other things in the timeline there make no sense, and the site is infamous for the claim that Dr. Jean Carlo Montague helped create Newmans when he himself is, in fact, a Newman... Hence, I give information from the PSOBB website, coming as long after the initial games as it does, very little credibility, at times less than I give Ep3.)

Goddamn you, ST, resolve the bloody storyline with Elly and Calus already. >o Actually, don't, the way you've done things with Ep3 and now BB... Bleh.

[Hikara]

So, does that mean that the whole "Seven Years" quote was just one of those "lost in translation" kind of situations? If the seven years theory were to be correct, Pioneer 2 would have left immediately after Pioneer 1 reported that they landed, and still arrived when they did. That seems pretty impossible to me; they'd have to load everyone onto the Pioneer 2, ne? It'd throw a huge kink into my next fic, too.

That still doesn't resolve the problem with Pioneer 3. If it only takes 2 years to reach Ragol from Coral, it should have been there by Episode 3 (assuming it left when the Pioneer 2 reached Ragol). I seem to remember someone saying that the letters on the screen behind the Tekker actually say "Pioneer 3." I have a GC, so the resolution on that screen is not terribly.... good.

Another theory concerning Pioneer 3 could be that it's simply waiting for the signal from Pioneer 2, saying "It's all clear, come land," which would explain its unappearance in Episode 3. If the Pioneer 2 is still orbiting, then the planet it not yet safe, and they have yet to give the all clear.

[Nai_Calus]

By Ep3 Pioneer 2 has broken ties with Coral, apparently, though, so there never will be an all-clear. Likely the project was cancelled due to the incident with Pioneer 1. Paganini may have gotten incorrect information, or most likely of all, ST just conveniently forgot about that... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Or, the ultimate answer to all PSO story screwups and inconsistencies and loose ends:

"It's ST. That explains everything. Now shut up and whack the Booma like a good little b*tch."

[Sharkyland]

http://www.phantasystardynasty.com/NPCGuides/SummaryTimeline.html

Timeline done by AzureBlaze/JetPlatinum (translated from the PSO Book of Hunters)

---

Coral recognizes the the independence of Ragol. If I read it correctly, Dol Grissen did this type of thing.

[WrathOfMegid]

Monty states that a meteorite w/ D-factor hit Coral, right? That's the same stuff in Ruins and DF, right?(All this stuff on the thread is news to me, so I apologize for inconsistancies) Mebbe the meteor's path was traced back to Ragol, and the Military was actually searching for a larger supply of D-factor to create MOTHER, and needed test subjects to expirement on. Voila: Pioneer mission, govt. coverup, Olga Flow, blah, blah, blah. Is this good, solid conjecturing or just the rantings of a mad-man?

[DezoPenguin]

On 2006-09-07 23:35, Sharkyland wrote:
http://www.phantasystardynasty.com/NPCGuides/SummaryTimeline.html

Timeline done by AzureBlaze/JetPlatinum (translated from the PSO Book of Hunters)

---

Coral recognizes the the independence of Ragol. If I read it correctly, Dol Grissen did this type of thing.



At least one error there (though generally informative and cool): in the "3083" section, it's stated that the Pioneer 2 government mislabeled the columns. Since Rico was the one who provides the info on the mislabeling (it's in the Forest 2 message pod next to the first column), obviously it had to be P1, since Rico never had any contact with Pioneer 2.

Similarly, the entire Red Ring Rico-becoming-Falz data is off; it's in the 3083 section when it needs to be in the 3084 section (again, a Forest 2 message pod indicates Rico was alive after the explosion, which happened in 3084 when P2 arrived). This isn't so much an "error," though, since it's later correctly placed in 3084, but the major discussion is in the 3083 section.

However, despite these miscues, this is an incredibly effective timeline and a valuable resource. Now if we could just add Ep. 4...

* * *

On a completely different note, the infamous "Pioneer travel time" error on the website isn't nececcarily a problem as it is a question of euphamisms. The figure tossed around throughout Ep. 1 is that it took "two years" to get from Coral to Ragol. Since that figure comes--at least once--from a citizen, it's possible that this was a rounded figure. That is, if P2 left in, say, January 3083 and arrived on Ragol in October 3084, that would be a twenty-one-month journey. Technically, it's 1.75 years, but an ordinary person would round off to 2 years so long as it's over one-and-a-half.

(This interpretation might place Episodes II and IV into 3085, depending on how long it was between I and II and between II and IV, but I'm not familiar with any *internal* references in Ep. II, at least, demanding a 3084 start time...)

[A2K]

On 2006-08-11 10:47, Solstis wrote:
Oh. Mother Brain. MOTHER. Do they enjoy regurgitating names just to confuse people? 10 bucks on that SEED in PSU has nothing to do with the older one.


It doesn't, although I don't think SEED in particular was done on purpose, unlike MOTHER. They're just too different in nature--one being a generally good-natured supercomputer and the other being a race of life forms bent on tainting and twisting the ecosystems of Gurhal.



On 2006-09-08 17:16, WrathOfMegid wrote:
Monty states that a meteorite w/ D-factor hit Coral, right? That's the same stuff in Ruins and DF, right?(All this stuff on the thread is news to me, so I apologize for inconsistancies) Mebbe the meteor's path was traced back to Ragol, and the Military was actually searching for a larger supply of D-factor to create MOTHER, and needed test subjects to expirement on. Voila: Pioneer mission, govt. coverup, Olga Flow, blah, blah, blah. Is this good, solid conjecturing or just the rantings of a mad-man?


That's pretty much exactly what happened. Ragol being chosen as the destination for the Pioneer Project was no mere coincidence.



On 2006-08-12 16:47, Foxix wrote:
So it has 2 moons >_> is it not possible for us to obtain a second one? There are planets out there with over 4, whats stopping this planet from getting another one in the future?


Or maybe the game takes place in prehistoric Earth and one of the moons was actually a giant laser cannon designed to ignite the planet's energon photon crystal deposits in order to sterilize the planet in case their esoteric experments became tainted by transforming robots from the future!

[WrathOfMegid]

On 2006-09-09 05:24, DezoPenguin wrote:

(again, a Forest 2 message pod indicates Rico was alive after the explosion, which happened in 3084 when P2 arrived)


If Rico was alive after the explosion, then what caused it? The cinematics say that DF did, but apparently Rico wasn't DF yet. Does this mean that Flowen, Rico, and all of us fought different DF's, and the DF that caused the explosion fought Rico? Also, how soon after the explosion do we hunters start exploring? If Rico is alive after the explosion, how far behind her are we in the game?
The towers have deactivated, so some amount of time must have passed.

[WrathOfMegid]

The reason this timing bothers me is, what if there was time to save Rico? If she started setting up her messages around the time of the explosion, and the hunters departed soon after, then why are we all so far behind? Rico was obviously strong enough to take the Ruin's monsters down, so why did she die?
This all leads to a theory of mine: Someone, on Pioneer 1 or 2, wanted another person like Flowen. So they delayed the Hunters'(our) progress with the intention of recovering a wounded Rico and performing experiments. She and Flowen were exceptionally strong hunters, so Rico would've been the next best test subject if *cough*something*cough* went wrong with Flowen. Only, something went wrong with Rico as well. DF possesed Rico instead of just wounding her. So us hunters get sent on a mission, or rather allowed to proceed in our mission(delayed, right?) and we end up cleaning up someone elses mess again, and killing the person we intended to find.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: WrathOfMegid on 2006-09-09 13:05 ]</font>

[A2K]

On 2006-09-09 12:57, WrathOfMegid wrote:
The reason this timing bothers me is, what if there was time to save Rico? If she started setting up her messages around the time of the explosion, and the hunters departed soon after, then why are we all so far behind? Rico was obviously strong enough to take the Ruin's monsters down, so why did she die?
This all leads to a theory of mine: Someone, on Pioneer 1 or 2, wanted another person like Flowen. So they delayed the Hunters'(our) progress with the intention of recovering a wounded Rico and performing experiments. She and Flowen were exceptionally strong hunters, so Rico would've been the next best test subject if *cough*something*cough* went wrong with Flowen. Only, something went wrong with Rico as well. DF possesed Rico instead of just wounding her. So us hunters get sent on a mission, or rather allowed to proceed in our mission(delayed, right?) and we end up cleaning up someone elses mess again, and killing the person we intended to find.


She didn't die. At least, not in the "bang bang you're dead" sense. Actually, I believe she actually makes a comment that she feels like she's being drawn underground...

Flowen was just a "fortunate coincidence" for Osto and company. I doubt they were actively searching for a new test subject, as when the scientists were still around apparently they were rather pleased with the results they were getting.

As for the timing of it all, it's anywhere from a few days to a couple of months. I don't believe specifics are actually given.

[DezoPenguin]

On 2006-09-09 19:03, A2K wrote:


On 2006-09-09 12:57, WrathOfMegid wrote:
The reason this timing bothers me is, what if there was time to save Rico? If she started setting up her messages around the time of the explosion, and the hunters departed soon after, then why are we all so far behind? Rico was obviously strong enough to take the Ruin's monsters down, so why did she die?
This all leads to a theory of mine: Someone, on Pioneer 1 or 2, wanted another person like Flowen. So they delayed the Hunters'(our) progress with the intention of recovering a wounded Rico and performing experiments. She and Flowen were exceptionally strong hunters, so Rico would've been the next best test subject if *cough*something*cough* went wrong with Flowen. Only, something went wrong with Rico as well. DF possesed Rico instead of just wounding her. So us hunters get sent on a mission, or rather allowed to proceed in our mission(delayed, right?) and we end up cleaning up someone elses mess again, and killing the person we intended to find.


She didn't die. At least, not in the "bang bang you're dead" sense. Actually, I believe she actually makes a comment that she feels like she's being drawn underground...

Flowen was just a "fortunate coincidence" for Osto and company. I doubt they were actively searching for a new test subject, as when the scientists were still around apparently they were rather pleased with the results they were getting.

As for the timing of it all, it's anywhere from a few days to a couple of months. I don't believe specifics are actually given.



Right. Flowen (possibly because of luck, possibly because of his strength of will/power/that intangible something that makes one a hero instead of an ordinary schmoe with a moustache) survived his encounter with D-cellular sub lifeforms in the Ruins, but was infected with the D-Factor. Osto (who was already using the D-Factor in his experiments with Beta 772, Gal Gryphon, etc.) seized upon this opportunity to get his mitts on a human test subject (heck, he even followed a vague shadow of medical protocol by getting Flowen's consent -- see Message Log 3 on Gal De Val Island). Things went rapidly downhill from there. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Basically, the course of events runs something like this:

-Pioneer 2 leaves Coral for Ragol

-Pioneer 1 government unlocks the Ruins

-Initial encounters between scientists and military of P1 and the D-cellular sub lifeforms (servants of Dark Falz, the disembodied intelligence)

-Flowen infected in battle

-Flowen becomes test subject Gamma 119. Olga AI core implanted in Flowen to help control the D-Factor

-Beta 772 (De Rol Le) escapes

-Olga Flow disposed of down the chute

-P2 arrives in orbit

-Dark Falz destroys all human life on Ragol except Rico (presumably because it has picked out Rico as the "perfect body" for it to possess)

-Rico begins her investigations pretty much immediately (I anticipate her reactions were, "WTF was THAT!?!").

Aside: This explains why Rico left message pods. She would have no way of knowing that P2 was up in orbit to be communicated with, so she left a record of her journey so that P2's crew, when it arrived, would know what she did.

-P2 sends unmanned probes to see, well, "WTF was THAT!?!" Or, as the scientist in Tyrell's office puts it, "Pioneer 2 decided to orbit Ragol and collect data before landing on the surface."

-Rico arrives at the end of Ruins 3 and is possessed by Dark Falz

-When unmanned probes don't produce results, P2 starts sending hunters.

Aside: P2's delay in rescuing Rico seems to be caused, ironically, by the fact that her father doesn't know about all the behind-the-scenes crap going on with Osto Hyle, the MOTHER project, and especially about Hyle's obsession with the D-Factor to speed up his bioweapons research. Of course, some of the latter isn't known by anyone else, either; see, for example, that Sue retrieves a copy of Osto's initial research for Black Paper in "Dr. Osto's Research."

As A2K said, we aren't told how long the delay was between P2's arrival and the hunters being sent to the planet's surface. It could be days, or it could be weeks. Either way, since Rico was proceeding directly from close on to the moment the explosion hit, it was already too late to "catch up" and save her (the best evidence of this, I suspect, is the fact that the door was found closed after beating Vol Opt; it would have had to be open when Rico went through it...though that begs the question of just who closed it again. Rico? Falz itself? Some kind of automatic locking mechanism set up by the original creators of the sealed door--the pillars shut off after X amount of time active?).

[Nixia]

Okay, much confused am I. >.>

Feel free to question my anything I write at any given time, I don't know much of anything. :3

Okay, Dark Falz causes the explosion that kills everyone on P1, yes? But how could it of? It was sealed! I could understand it luring her deeper into the ruins, seeing as how it's already influenced animals and hunters alike--subtle suggestion is okay, big asplosions are not! The effectiveness of the seal--or rather lack thereof--aside, how could've it caused an explosion? Without a body, it's just a floaty conscience incapable of immediate, tangible destruction, right? (I'm assuming) I thought that maybe it influenced some of the people on P1 to cross some wires and blow themselves up, but there's a similar crater explosion in the Ruins, and nobody at the time--save for Rico, of course--has been down there, hence nobody could blow themselves up.

My only rationale is that seal wasn't doing its job. >.>

Why is there a crater in the Ruins, anyway?

And, unless it was testing her, why did Dark Falz send monsters after its desired host? Seems counter-productive to me. =/

I don't have episodes 2, 3 or 4, what I've learned of them, I've learned from this entire thread, and bits from wiki, so would someone kindly enlighten me as to what the MOTHER project is exactly, or where I could find it? Oh, and more on Black Paper, WORKS, and Kireek's apparant crazyman tendecies, those too. :3

[RubyEclipse]

On 2006-09-11 04:00, Nixia wrote:
nobody at the time--save for Rico, of course--has been down there, hence nobody could blow themselves up.

My only rationale is that seal wasn't doing its job. >.>

Why is there a crater in the Ruins, anyway?


Actually, Flowen and his team of soldiers were the first ones in. Of those, Flowen was the only survivor (Whether this is intentional or not can be debated).

As to that crater... This part is rather tricky. On the surface, the actual explosion didn't really do any notable physical damage. However, in R1, the massive hole in the ground near the waterfall is pretty tough to miss, which seems to say just the opposite of what happened on the surface. The only inference I could make is that the blast in the Ruins is needed, for some reason, to get to the surface - which is where step 2 comes in.

Oh, snap, that just hit me - Falz is shown in the opening movie on the surface. So I guess my inference there would be that the blast in the Ruins is him ( in whatever physical form ) getting a nice grip topside, and the second blast is his way of sucking in / destroying / killing / massive death / etc to everyone nearby on Pioneer 1. It's been a while since I did too much deep digging into the storyline, though, so I'd wait for confirmation from others first before taking what I posted as fact. =P



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RubyEclipse on 2006-09-11 06:37 ]</font>

[A2K]

Assuming that the hole in the Ruins was created recently, anyway.

[DezoPenguin]

Rico's message on the hole: "What is this big hole? It looks like... remnants of some kind of energy explosion. ...Energy...? Was the Central Dome destroyed by this!?" That at least suggests that the remnants are recent.

Oh, and Flowen's team was not the first to encounter the Ruins. Check Message Log 2 for Gal De Val Island. The initial excavation team was wiped out, then a "hostile lifeform" was confirmed, and then "an attack plan was created to remove the creature." Note also that "IT" crawled up "from a dark abyss" (presumably the hole) and that "its body was cycling through the stages of life and death" (meaningless fluff except that it implies it had a body when it encountered Flowen).

So...maybe Falz grabbed a random researcher to use as a temporary, imperfect body?

With regard to the seal, remember that it was P1 that originally unsealed the Ruins in order to get inside.

Now, as for why Dark Falz had the power to annihilate P1's military force, then delete the entire population, then possess Rico, and yet could be handily killed by four--count 'em, four--random hunters (without even the usual trappings of Destined Hero status and other special abilities)...here's my theory. The Ruins 1 pit is actually a plot-hole down which that explanation fell. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Solstis]

Maybe Rico wasn't a very good host?

It is possible that Rico was resisting Falz, weaking its power.

But, that's just making things up for the benefit of ST.

[Gaderffii]

Maybe I missed a link. WHAT DOES IT MEAN???? Also what does IDOLA mean?

[Splash]

It's just an incantation. Nothing more.

IDOLA, I have no idea. More likely, just a word for part of song name.

[RubyEclipse]

Muut Ditts Poumn also holds a close resemblance to the three planets from the Algol system - though their exact names vary on the PS game - Mota, Dezolis, and Palma.

Falz was possibly sealed by the Espers, who would have had contact with that system at some point in time. I would go further, but that discussion belongs moreso here: http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=100983&forum=12&77 Tune in, turn on, drop out.

[Saigan]

***SPOILER***
***SPOILER***
***SPOILER***
Yep, Muut, Ditts, Poumn, refers to Mota, Dezo, and Palm of the Algo start system. Those planets are the actual seal the holds the Profound Darkness in its prison. Every thousand years the seal weakens and the profound darkness is able to force a "Dark Force" or (Dark Falz) through. Those pillars on Ragol create the same barrier, albeit a much weaker one to hold a captured Dark Falz at bay.

[Neith]

I believe I can cover 'IDOLA'.

Idolatry is the worship of an idol (and/or an image). The 'being' of Dark Falz (Profound Darkness?) is the image of destruction on Ragol. My guess is that Falz is in a way, a kind of image (protraying destruction), which could give it the properties of an idol, hence IDOLA.

The 'D-Factor' that makes Flow/Falz/Shambertin possible is recognised by the word 'IDOLA' in the theme titles.

I could be totally wrong (and that was really hard to try and explain), but that's what I see.

[A2K]

On 2006-09-11 10:45, DezoPenguin wrote:
Rico's message on the hole: "What is this big hole? It looks like... remnants of some kind of energy explosion. ...Energy...? Was the Central Dome destroyed by this!?" That at least suggests that the remnants are recent.

All that quote suggests is Rico thought it was recent. It's possible that the hole has been there for some time and... maybe it was created by Falz some time ago and he merely climbs up and out from it? Actually...


I will never forget.
"IT" crawled up from a vast abyss of darkness.
It appeared to be mutating as it moved toward us.
It looked like its "body" was cycling through the stages of life and death.
...
The force under my command was completely demolished.
I managed to escape, but...
I was badly injured.

I always thought the "vast abyss" here referred to that hole.



Now, as for why Dark Falz had the power to annihilate P1's military force, then delete the entire population, then possess Rico, and yet could be handily killed by four--count 'em, four--random hunters (without even the usual trappings of Destined Hero status and other special abilities)...here's my theory. The Ruins 1 pit is actually a plot-hole down which that explanation fell. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif


Perhaps he was looking to add more worthy specimens into itself, but the process in doing so (involving his last form) also leaves him vulnerable to attack.

Or perhaps after the initial blast it needs time to recharge before it could launch an assault like that once more.

All aboard the speculation train!



On 2006-09-24 02:34, RubyEclipse wrote:
Falz was possibly sealed by the Espers, who would have had contact with that system at some point in time. I would go further, but that discussion belongs moreso here: http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=100983&forum=12&77 Tune in, turn on, drop out.


You just linked back to this thread? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif



On 2006-09-24 08:52, UrikoBB3 wrote:
I believe I can cover 'IDOLA'.

Idolatry is the worship of an idol (and/or an image). The 'being' of Dark Falz (Profound Darkness?) is the image of destruction on Ragol. My guess is that Falz is in a way, a kind of image (protraying destruction), which could give it the properties of an idol, hence IDOLA.

The 'D-Factor' that makes Flow/Falz/Shambertin possible is recognised by the word 'IDOLA' in the theme titles.

I could be totally wrong (and that was really hard to try and explain), but that's what I see.


Also:
idola

Idolum I*do"lum, Idolon I*do"lon, n.; pl. Idola. [L. See Idol; cf. Eidolon.] Appearance or image; a phantasm; a spectral image; also, a mental image or idea.

[Zarbolord]

Kinda sounds like PSU's story, the three planets reuniting to exterminate an evil force. Could Parum, Neudaiz and Moatoob be the same planets? Anyway, Muut Ditts Poumn seems like something else. Muut seems like mute/silent/sealed, Ditts seems like word/speech/sound and Poumn seems like a heart beat sound or a name. You also have Heart of Poumn, which are deadly claws, could be reffered to the silent beat, as in the deadly weapon. It's just speculation, I do as Montague, but it doesn't alsways come true.

[A2K]

On 2006-09-24 09:52, Zarbolord wrote:
Kinda sounds like PSU's story, the three planets reuniting to exterminate an evil force. Could Parum, Neudaiz and Moatoob be the same planets?


Gurhal isn't Algol, for quite a few reasons, actually, aside from "this game takes place in a different universe. But it is an obvious homage.

[Zarbolord]

So this could mean parallel worlds? Another universe but with the same story, developping in another way, with other heroes, and other problems.

[KojiroAK]

Didn't read the hole Thread yet so excuse me if it was already there.

I think Dark Falz sended his Creatures against Rico as a test.
If she comes thru them, she will be a good Body, if she dies, at least she wasn't realy a good host.

to the "problem" why player can kill DF.
I think DF isn't that strong in Physical view.
And he was able to get control over Rico cause she had the feeling of beeing alone, a little scared so her mental strengh was reduced.

But player know, there are some others that can help them. So their Stress isn't that high and Falz can't controll them complete.
But he try, as you can see at one of his attacks.

In think in the opening he has no Physical body, it looks more like an energy Body.
So he had it easier to get thrue the weakend Barriers but hasnt that much Power.

So People that was in places where the power of the explosion wasn't that strong, they had the possibilitie to survive.

So i think it's possible that some other People from Pionier 1 has survived.

Special since the Story in EP 1& 2 do playing in only 2 ,at least small, places of Ragol.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KojiroAK on 2006-09-25 03:47 ]</font>

[RubyEclipse]

On 2006-09-24 09:33, A2K wrote:
You just linked back to this thread? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif


Those posts were originally in another thread, but it looks like a mod was able to merge them here. So yes, essentially, but not at the time. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


So i think it's possible that some other People from Pionier 1 has survived.

Up to a certain point in the storyline, that sounds right. I want to say that the deaths at the seabed come at a notably later time than the original explosion, but I'll have to do some digging again before I can back that up.

[KojiroAK]

So like i know, nowhere in the stroy there is said, the absolute no people was going far away from P1 landing.

So there could be some bunkers/Forts or something like that, with people who thougt , P2 was destroyed two at the time of explosion.
And cause of electrical/magneic fields they wasn't able to contact P2.

Don't know if that was already here.
I think, Rico has finaly was saved by the player..
In the epilog of Ep.1 Ult. Singleplayer, you see in one of the last Pictures an happy Principal and a part of a person that's look pretty much like Rico.

[Zarbolord]

In EP2 you see them as spirits that go away suddenly, so no, they're both dead, but their souls fused to make Endu. And they're stuck with him until Amplum is destroyed, because AMplum is part of DF.

[KojiroAK]

But that would mean Rico was went back to Ragol after she met her Father on P2.

I know in ep 2 in the epilog of Ult you see Rico and Flowen back on back, but they arent vanishing suddenly they do more slowely vanishing, if i remember right.

Did olga Flow only one time in Ult.
And in relationship to DF or enemys in seabed he is a joke.

[DezoPenguin]

On a completely different note, for those who've played Episode 4, was there anything in there about why Rupika was on board the Gran Squall when it crashed?

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Rupika had special powers that the military wanted. These are the same powers that Montegue tried to duplicate in Elenor and Ult; this ability to store and charge Photons, which they wanted so they could power the Heaven's Striker that they were developing.

[KojiroAK]

Thougt about the Pillars and the Sealed Door.

The Pillars do charge you with special energy, and the Door opens only for people that are charged by every of the three Pillars.
That's also the explaining why everyone have to activate the pillars.

[Dre_o]

On 2006-09-25 14:34, KojiroAK wrote:
Thougt about the Pillars and the Sealed Door.

The Pillars do charge you with special energy, and the Door opens only for people that are charged by every of the three Pillars.
That's also the explaining why everyone have to activate the pillars.



I'm pretty sure the pillars were just locks the anchient people (I personally am unsure of who) who sealed Falz put there to try and keep him sealed.

[KojiroAK]

@Dre_o
Was a thougt to, why player has to activate them, alltough Rico was already in to Ruins.
Or online this door is for each player locked at the beginn.

Otherwise it should only be locked until the first player did activate the three pillars in one difficulty.

The idea also explains also why DF is not just walking out of the ruins after you activated the three pillars.
Because for him the seal is still activated.
And he/it? would also have to activate the pillars.
Since he is behind the seals DF can only pass the seals as energy body, but DFs real body is still behind the seal and his/its? Energyform can't go to far away of its real body.

That would also explain why you can deactivate that seal thats easy, it's to get the possibiltie to check something into the ship.
For example if some other Security Systems are still active.

Otherwise it also wouldn't be logic why people didn't get the ship to a place where it isn't that possible, that's somebody whent there.
For example somewhere in a sun near orbit would be more logic or a f...alzing waste planet or planetoid.

But a planet that's has that good life condition, would otherwise beeing falzing stupid.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KojiroAK on 2006-09-25 15:29 ]</font>

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Actually, the general assumption is that the pillars lock back down after a period of time. Mind you, this is not a problem, as once you've been to the Ruins, you then have the coordinates for the teleporter there. At that point, you no longer need to activate the pillars to enter.

Also, I advise against trying to use continuity to explain things done out of pure game mechanics. You'll get lost and never find your way out.

[KojiroAK]

Don't think is cause of Timing.

Against Timing is, that even if you did much of Quests and went go thrue a lots of Runs in some areas, door is still open.

otheerwise it would mean, Rico would have to arriving much longer before you in Ruins.

And then there would be the question, why didn't Dark Falz just get out of his Jail after you activated the third pillar?

In the quests it don't seems DF likes to be inside the Spaceship.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

The biggest thing hindering Dark Falz's escape is the lack of a physical body, for a start. Dark Falz needs a host before taking on a physical form; ie: Red Ring Rico. Furthermore, when you go to fight him, despite having taken Rico as a body, Dark Falz seems to also require someone to release him directly, beyond just the initial layer of the seal.

Also, as I previously commented, I advise you to avoid taking pure game mechanics into account. Be aware that the pillars haven't always behaved the same way. In the Dreamcast version, they could not be activated at all until you encounter the pillar in the Mines, and if you were to exit the game without entering the Ruins, you would have to do the whole process over again. The very fact that you can just activate them at any time and they stay that way permanently is purely game mechanics introduced with the GameCube and Xbox versions due to a general level of fan annoyance with the Dreamcast version.

Also consider that the entire Forest to Ruins main quest can be, and is probably meant to be, accomplished over the course of a day. Therefore, the largest minimum estimate of time Rico is ahead of you is a mere 1000 beats. 24 hours.

[KojiroAK]

Under that information it makes sense.

The quest are even a little bit "special"

Since i think two, Rico isn't that far away, but if you think about Missions like that one you have to collect Native data and the following (wasn't it Native Reaserch and Forrest of Sorrow?)

For me, i think they are something away as a week, since they check the data you collect and i don't think they can do it under a 3-7 days.

Or Watterfall of Tears and Black Paper, even 2 days behind would be pretty near.

For doing all the quest - i think - under two month you not realy come out.

And that's would be again a bigger gap between you an Rico.

[DezoPenguin]

Resurrecting this thread momentarily (hey, it's a sticky!)...can anyone who's actually played Ep. III fill me in on the OPPS incident? I know it happened sometime during the gap between games, that it involved a bit o' the old ethnic cleansing on a bunch of androids due to...population issues (resources, etc...yeah, nothing like solving your resource problems by killing the people who use the least space and resources...), and that in the backlash therefrom, androids attained a measure of autonomous civil rights and were renamed "humanoids" ( http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_barf.gif ).

So, can any of you fill me in on the fine details? Things like time, specific facts--or people--involved, what rights "humanoids" gained, and so on? Writing fanfics with an android co-lead has got me thinking about these things of late...

[AzureBlaze]

Unfortunatly for ST's mondo fascination with Silfer/Break OPPS kinda got glossed over in ep3 to the degree that I saw it, but I'll put everything I know and if someone else backs it up/adds, all the better.

Han Walt
He's the big name you get out of it, like a politician or a general or something. Clarify/label?

Why?
The issue wasn't purely 'fleshies are a' breedin!' Han Walt and the military were doing a whole big "Clone human Soldiers=good" project. That's why you see Rufina around, she's one of these people. They went along the lines of "if this works, we're gonna need space--androids are the most outnumbered, no one can prove they're alive, so it's ok to off a bunch of them to make room!"

FreakChildren
Red's daughters...were part of the cloning deal. Remember he made a deal with the militarydevil to get his daughters back but they corrupted into awful weapons? This is part of the same can of super-soldier worms.

Reiz
She was a player in OPPS because she was created to be mentally...not all there and go around murdering other androids/casting them out into space/hunt them down. (and as you know Ohguns' grief over the death of a friend snapped her out of it)

Rights?
They never mention spacific rights as far as I know. Clarify? I would assume a ban on slavery/working for free, maybe voting, a ban on whole-android sale/trade, anti-abuse laws where an android could go to the cops or trial or something.

But it SEEMED that no androids were really slaves in any way, at any point in PSO....I mean Saligun's a paid teacher, Kireek is Sue's MASTER (quoted!) and all the hunters of PSO seemed normal citizens. The only odd man out is Shino, but it's stated over and over that she's ancient and can't function well/want to w/o master telling her what to do. Shino is actually the oldest char in PSO besides falz. Maybe the rights are really obscure...

Hope this helps

[DezoPenguin]

Actually, it does help, thanks. The key clarifying points I got out of it were:

1. Although androids aren't inherently slaves or servants based on AI programming the way Shino was, they were nonetheless the most "questionable" group in terms of rights. After all, objects don't get rights, people do, and animals fall somewhere in between based upon the ethical principles of the government (I can just imagine it now: "You'll have to pay a 75,000 meseta fine for killing that Hildetorr, hunter; it's an endangered species!"

2. You've also explained my biggest problem with the set-up, namely "why androids?" It's not because they're the most efficient thing to clear out, but just because they make the easiest victims.

3. And now I have a name to point to, if necessary. ^_^

More details, of course, would be nice...but then again, half the time the details just get glossed over in games like this, anyway!

[VanDarkmind]

On 2006-09-25 03:41, KojiroAK wrote:

to the "problem" why player can kill DF.
I think DF isn't that strong in Physical view.
And he was able to get control over Rico cause she had the feeling of beeing alone, a little scared so her mental strengh was reduced.

But player know, there are some others that can help them. So their Stress isn't that high and Falz can't controll them complete.
But he try, as you can see at one of his attacks.

In think in the opening he has no Physical body, it looks more like an energy Body.
So he had it easier to get thrue the weakend Barriers but hasnt that much Power.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KojiroAK on 2006-09-25 03:47 ]</font>


Well, I suppose that the Barrier that Keeps Falz, is weakening him all the time, even if he was able to posess Rico's body. Maybe the fact of having a physical Body would have allowed him to crack the Ship that held him. But we, the Hunters prevented him from gaining complete control over Rico and getting out of there.