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Reenee
Aug 25, 2005, 03:18 PM
Are players limited to just leveling up their characters in the same style of PSO or will there be the option to allocate the stats that a player wishes to raise (something like Diablo II)?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reenee on 2005-08-25 13:18 ]</font>

_Tek_
Aug 25, 2005, 04:57 PM
I've heard ideas of stats leveling up depending on what weapons you are using. So if you use swords you sword skills will raise. Possibly allowing you to raise all 3 to the max eventually.

Reenee
Aug 25, 2005, 06:26 PM
That'd be a weapon skill or whatever. I'm talking about ATP, DEF, MST, etc. on a character you made.

Fredrick
Aug 25, 2005, 09:44 PM
God I hope not. You would see alot of people with maxed MST or maxed ATP... and it would make it feel less special when you actually got there.

I like the way PSO' lv up system works. I hope PSU's will be similar.

_Tek_
Aug 25, 2005, 10:36 PM
Well I certainly wouldn't want to have it where you raise each stat you choose per level that's slow, but I also don't want to restrict my caracter to one type of class(guns swords magic).

Hopefully there will be a way to max all of the stats like in PSO, once you reach 200. But there's no mags, no news on armor raising base stats, what about materials? Perhaps it will be simpler to level your character, and you don't have to worry about all that extra stat raising junk. Remember is PSO how the mats were to be used wisely are you'd screw up yoru character for max stats at level 200. I would hat eto have that.

I guess we just need to wait until that info is released once the game is out in japan.

Basically we have no idea, I don't know why I'm wasting my time typing this.

Reiz_Fan
Aug 26, 2005, 12:54 AM
I hope they dont change it, I think its just fine the way it is. Hopefully techs. will do more damage online i kind of hate how they did that.....

_Tek_
Aug 26, 2005, 01:46 AM
I think's its because they raised the enemy's strengths for online, since you got a team with more damage, that's why techs did less online.

I doubt they'll do that this time, since you play in a team offline anyways, just like online.

Parn
Aug 26, 2005, 04:50 AM
Wait, wait, wait... several of you would prefer to have LESS control over your character's evolution?

...wow.

_Tek_
Aug 26, 2005, 05:35 AM
I'd just prefer to have less of a headache while planning my character. OCD sets in.

Parn
Aug 26, 2005, 06:12 AM
Being able to pick your stats and distribute points where you want is more of a headache than having to raise a mag to specific stats and keeping track of how many of each material you've consumed?

Mm'kay.

Reiz_Fan
Aug 26, 2005, 06:43 AM
I think choosing stats is kind of dumb. I mean you cant just switch your skills in real life; so why should it be diffrent in a game? In my opinion its alot easier that way anyway.

Parn
Aug 26, 2005, 06:53 AM
You can't level up in real life, either. I guess choosing which materials you use in PSO is also "dumb", seeing how you're choosing which stats to raise.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2005-08-26 04:54 ]</font>

Mixfortune
Aug 26, 2005, 07:07 AM
Point is, it could go either way.
Myself, I'd prefer a more direct and to the point method of character customization in regards to stat points and levelling, although naturally there will be equipment and/or enhancers that increase such stats as well.

Stats from levelling, as well as weapon levelling, would be cooler in some ways if it was set up to be impossible to max everything, regardless of how long you've played. While it may make for some "bad end game chars", depending on how well rounded the game experience is, it could lead to more unique, but still capable characters, except in their own regards/roles they set up for themselves, making it an advantage, not a disadvantage to have such a system.

But enough of stat outcome theories from me for now... I really don't care what the system is at the moment, just how well it's implemented with the game itself.

Reiz_Fan
Aug 26, 2005, 07:29 AM
I personally thought the idea of materals was dumb too. But the game would probably be much too hard to try without them.

_Tek_
Aug 26, 2005, 05:46 PM
All I need to satisfy me is a single counter of experience pts. that raises my level and stats every once and a while. I'd rather not have to plan growth at all, and choose stats wisely. Since teh game appears to have no specific class, it looks like you can use any type of style for yoru character. I'd rather have it where I can use any. I don't want to have to focus my character into using one type only. I wouldn't want to end up having to raise everything equally since then everything would be low.

I just want to have all possiblites of gameplay open with my character, unlike PSO wher eyou chose a class, and you were stuck with that.

astuarlen
Aug 26, 2005, 06:21 PM
I hope we can allocate stat points when we level up. Material usage is, in my opinion, too limiting. More customization kthx. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
I guess I'd just prefer if PSU had more RPG elements than PSO.

prometheus818
Sep 1, 2005, 09:34 PM
I can't wait till it comes out but i like the pso system where you choose a class and it falls down that way. with you choosing what to hook up your character with youd hit a wall eventually and be mad that you keep getting killed because your defensive is too low or you dont do enough damage

Dana
Sep 2, 2005, 04:16 AM
I would personally like Diablo 2 ways of leveling, creating more unque characters instead of PSO all characters are the same minus items mags material useage(which makes them alot different http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)

Split
Sep 2, 2005, 11:21 AM
as long as it's not like crystal chronicles (beat a boss get PLUS 1 on any stat of your choice! woopty doo!) then I'm fine with the leveling system..

Kuea
Sep 3, 2005, 09:01 PM
well if it's an allocate points to stats type system, how would it work?

cause as far as I can see for it, you'd level up and then your char would stop moving well you set your stat points >_>; *watchs a guy setting his stats get killed by a nearby monster* XD

I highly doubt we would get a system where you choose what you upgrade, becasue as was said before, there would be lotsa of people with some maxed stat at an early level

If anything, my guess would be they would keep the level ups the same for basically the entire series and game type

Just gain stats at a level up that are either set for that level or somethign that my be good, have it go up by a random number withen set parameters

Besides there aren't very many RPGs where you can set your stats too anyway

eh thats my opinion anyway http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Reenee
Sep 3, 2005, 09:54 PM
Maxing out one individual stat isn't exactly the wisest thing to do either.

astuarlen
Sep 3, 2005, 10:54 PM
On 2005-09-03 19:01, Eclair wrote:
well if it's an allocate points to stats type system, how would it work?

[1] cause as far as I can see for it, you'd level up and then your char would stop moving well you set your stat points >_>; *watchs a guy setting his stats get killed by a nearby monster* XD

[2]I highly doubt we would get a system where you choose what you upgrade, becasue as was said before, there would be lotsa of people with some maxed stat at an early level

If anything, my guess would be they would keep the level ups the same for basically the entire series and game type

Just gain stats at a level up that are either set for that level or somethign that my be good, have it go up by a random number withen set parameters

[3]Besides there aren't very many RPGs where you can set your stats too anyway

eh thats my opinion anyway http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif


[1] It's simple. For example, say you get 8 points to distribute amongst your stats when you level up. These points go into an unallocated point category automatically when you level up and are saved until you use them. When you're ready you can enter the menu screen which allows you to transfer unallocated points to one or more stats. I've played games that work this way, so I don't see the difficulty here.

[2] Since we don't yet know exactly how stats will be set up in PSU--that is, how many points in each stat you'll begin with, how many you could potentially receive at each level, what the maximum for a given stat is--saying that it will be easy to max a stat at an early level is purely speculative. What if we only get 1 stat point per level? What if it costs more than 1 "level up point" to increase a stat at higher levels? Who knows? But I have played RPGs with player-allocated stat points, and it was not necessarily easy--or possible--to max out any stat. It all depends on how the system functions.

[3] I disagree on the basis of personal experience. Granted, I haven't played a huge number of games, but I always took PSO's system to be the exception, not the rule. Of course, the "traditional" level-up mechanisms of PC and console games may be different (I've played almost exclusively PC RPGs) but in most I've played the user determined how stats or skills would progress upon leveling, either by directly choosing where to allocate points or through an indirect system such as gaining proficiency by using a certain weapon. Besides, why should what "most" other RPGs do determine what PSU does? It would be nice if ST could implement a feature to satisfy both tastes. For instance, you could choose "automatic" or "manual" point allocation; automatic could randomly assign points, while manual would let those who prefer more control have it.

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be any reason why PSU shouldn't give us more freedom in determining stats--except perhaps for ST's love of the status quo. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif We shall see, we shall see. But I'm pulling for greater customization.

Parn
Sep 3, 2005, 11:22 PM
On 2005-09-03 19:01, Eclair wrote:
cause as far as I can see for it, you'd level up and then your char would stop moving well you set your stat points >_>; *watchs a guy setting his stats get killed by a nearby monster* XD
Which is any different and somehow less convenient than feeding a mag every few minutes, how?


I highly doubt we would get a system where you choose what you upgrade, becasue as was said before, there would be lotsa of people with some maxed stat at an early level
This doesn't make any freaking sense. If someone concentrates entirely on one stat, so what? They're not going to have any points devoted to other stats. What good is power if you don't have any accuracy? How long are you going to live with no points put into defense? What about evasion? Mental prowess? There's plenty of factors to consider.

Even then, who says you have to have a max stat anyways? And if there were max stats, how is this any different than someone using a 195 POW mag and eating nothing but power materials, and thus maxing ATP at an earlier level than everyone else?

Other than the fact that letting us choose what to raise is considerably more convenient to the player than trying to find 100 or 200 materials for a specific stat and feeding a mag specific items like sol atomizers that aren't even sold in the shop half the time.

Get real, people. We don't even know what we'll actually get, but hoping for LESS choice and control is just absurd.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2005-09-03 21:25 ]</font>

Crystal_Shard
Sep 4, 2005, 08:30 AM
I've always wanted to have a Fonewearl class character wield a Morning Glory. :3

While I'd agree that most JP RPGs tend to have specific stat gains per specific characters, what's the big deal if PSU had a customisable system for stats?

In PSO's case, there were specific classes, so therefore a class specific stat system was logical. However, PSU seems to be a race specific system. Would you really want every single Human, Newman, Cast and Beast character to have identical stats? Because that's what we'd have if PSU uses PSO's system. (Unless we end up with HUmars and the like again) -_-'

I'll be honest, PSU's system is the one they should have given to PSO in the first place. Choose your race, choose your clothes, hair, face, whatever. Class? Figure that one out yourself.

Think about the shock value when you see a magic user in robes and all, and suddenly a huge-ass sword materializes in his/her hands. :3

At the very least, we'd have FOnewms with better dress sense. :3

Kent
Sep 4, 2005, 10:11 AM
Well, all we know for certain is that there's levels, and there's four races and three classes. :/

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the Diablo-style stat allocation thing, I like having pretty much all of my stats go up in a predetermined fashion, as it makes the players less concerned about making the perfect mix of stat points, and it eliminates the worry of putting one too many points into a stat and having to either rework your character build or start over. In addition, I think a hybridized system would work, where your stats grow normally, but you get to choose something to add a small bonus of a point or two to, each level.

EJ
Sep 4, 2005, 07:29 PM
I personally would like to raise my skills and have more control over my characters stats. Plus when I play MMORPG games I really don't care about maxing since it more about the experience but I would like to have control of everything for my character like his ATP, DFP, MST, & EVP. I never liked the idea of the materials and hope there will be other ways to gain experience and raising your stats beside just killing everything.

Mixfortune
Sep 7, 2005, 04:39 AM
Was thinking a bit while reading Eclair's post...
About how some people could potentially max out one stat really early, or about how other RPGs don't really employ a manual levelling system...

Well, on the system part, it'd actually be better for PSU to set itself apart with a different kind of levelling/stat allocation system, but still make it work. It adds a level of interest to it beyond a new way to merely grind and item collect.

As for maxing a stat early, I considered this, and then thought of some half-thought about a levelling/stat allocation system that'd be similar to combining Shining Soul and WoW/Diablo 2. Since I can assume most people are not familiar with either... I will try seeing if I can set it up a bit.



Let's say, that upon level up, you gain some sort of minimal base stats based on the level and your race, that will be the automatic part, and cannot be reverted. You will also gain a few points with which to distribute however you want between your stats (maybe, say, 3 to 5 points, or more depending on how high the stats and such will go).
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this particular part (manual) could be handled a few ways. 1 point could translate to 1 point directly, or it could rise on an increasing scale the further you get (somewhat like SS, although those who recall RO may know this as well), so the higher the stat, the more the cost, the more you level, the more points you get per level, etc... This keeps a nice cap to stop people from getting way too far... and also could be utilized as a means for race stat modifications (MST costs in general would be larger for casts, for example). As long as all the stats are actually needed in some form or another (RO somewhat failed this as usually only one or two stats was necessary to a character), most will opt for at most a slight specialization of stats, as opposed to full out maxing while neglecting the rest.

The other half would be more proficiency in nature. This is the part closer to WoW/Diablo 2, in the form of how the talent trees work. This will allow more specialization, that may or may not directly influence stats. If you know what I mean, good... but if not I could explain it further if anyone's interested... no real need for me to have much longer a post.

Both the manual stat points and the "talents" could be refundable, or not, so people don't feel screwed or trapped into what they first choose.

This way you have a somewhat half and half system. That, and I liked astuarlen's suggestion for a toggleable "auto" button, or preset build buttons, for those who'd rather not bother with said customization.

Reenee
Sep 7, 2005, 09:22 AM
Oh oh oh, wait a minute.

I just remembered PSO caps a stat. Wasn't there a point in GC PSO where you couldn't use Materials because you maxed a stat FOR THAT LEVEL?

They could always tweak how they did that.

_Tek_
Sep 7, 2005, 07:42 PM
I wouldn't mind a stat allocation system with base stats like mentioned above. You could level up and then place extra points on a stat of your choice. Then its like this: Say there's just MST ATA ATP DFP, 200 levels. Then you get 50 bonus points to add to each. So then you could boost all your mst if you want to be a caster at the start, then at level 50 you couldn't boost that stat anymore. Similar to how in PSO you could only use so many HP mats, but HP still increased as you leveled. So basically you can control your growth while starting your character, but after about 100 levels you would be finishing the remaning stats. But you would still have always had a good casting ability for your previous levels.

What I'm saying is eventually everyone with a HUman (for example) who gets to the final level would all have the same stats right?

Would that sound ok?

Parn
Sep 7, 2005, 08:32 PM
Nope. Making everyone have the same exact stats in the end while giving the illusion of choice on the way up is a terrible idea. What's the point? Why even bother? That's like raising a mag with specific stats in PSO, then the moment you hit level 200 on the mag, the game changes the stats and appearance so your mag is like everyone else's.

What's the point?

_Tek_
Sep 7, 2005, 09:18 PM
That sounds like you are talking about appearance.

But that is right I suppose. In PSO you could have 2 humar's at 200, there base stats would be the same, but I suppose mat useage would be different.

PSU there are no classes, but you say there should still be variance. So like a Beast at max level could be different than another beast at max level because of how they were grown, like one high in mind, one high in pow. Then there would be no way to max each every stat right? Otherwise these 2 beasts would end up with the same stats at max level if grown to achieve max stats.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Tek_ on 2005-09-07 19:20 ]</font>

Parn
Sep 7, 2005, 09:39 PM
Precisely.

Let people spend points how they wish. If Ethan isn't a good enough example, it seems that anyone can equip anything. He's shown using rifles, sabers, and staves. Therefore, one would need to make a choice as to what to be proficient in.

Making level up stats the same for everyone without offering the player choice means that everyone can cast spells at the same proficiency, fire rifles with the same deadly accuracy, and beat down monsters just as hard with a saber. There would be absolutely no variety whatsoever, other than character appearance.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2005-09-07 19:41 ]</font>

VioletSkye
Sep 7, 2005, 10:06 PM
I definitely agree with allowing us to spend the points where we want to. That was something that I strongly disliked coming from Diablo 2 to PSO. I understand that the material diet and mag raising somewhat make up for it, but overall I would like complete, total control over developing my char. I also liked the Skill tree in D2 better as well. Maybe its because I started with D2 and played that for years before trying PSO. As great as PSO is, I always felt it had less depth and was a much shallower game. Another thing I'd really like to see expanded are bonuses for wearing a partial or complete set of items (for example the Immortal King set in D2 and the Delsaber set in PSO.)

_Tek_
Sep 7, 2005, 11:49 PM
Yes that makes total sense now. So basically the 3 RA HU FO classes are stil there, just hidden underneath it all.

But still it would be great if you could max all 3 areas on a character, and switch to whatever you want, guns, magic, swords, whatever you feel like.

But I suppose that's what having multiple characters is for. one for each gameplay style. I know everyone is going to have atleast 2-3, so that takes care of that.

I also think that PSU seriously shouldn't get rid of mags. That was part of cuzomizing your character, which you could switch between. Mind/pow mag etc.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Tek_ on 2005-09-08 12:38 ]</font>

Kent
Sep 8, 2005, 04:16 PM
On 2005-09-07 19:39, Parn wrote:
If Ethan isn't a good enough example, it seems that anyone can equip anything. He's shown using rifles, sabers, and staves. Therefore, one would need to make a choice as to what to be proficient in.

You've got to remember, though, that Sonic Team stated that the online and offline modes are very different. Ethan may be using rods, guns, and swords all offline, but in the online mode, you still choose a class for your character. So basically, it's going to be pretty much just like PSO, as far as character choices go, but with the addition of the Beast race, and you don't have set character types... For example, you pick a race, then a character class, instead of just picking HUmar (or whichever).

Parn
Sep 8, 2005, 04:18 PM
From what I read, you only select your race.

Kent
Sep 8, 2005, 04:33 PM
There was an IGN playtest (http://ps2.ign.com/articles/611/611874p1.html) that confirmed the classes were still in the game.

That, and there was a news story a while back (I wish I knew where it was...) where, I believe it was Yuji Naka, stated that the three character clases would still be in for online mode.

Parn
Sep 8, 2005, 06:06 PM
Sounds like a case of conflicting information. Guess we'll know for sure on release day.

_Tek_
Sep 8, 2005, 10:46 PM
When it comes to PSU I don't trust any sources that aren't japanese.

BogusKun
Sep 10, 2005, 12:00 PM
On 2005-08-26 04:12, Parn wrote:
Being able to pick your stats and distribute points where you want is more of a headache than having to raise a mag to specific stats and keeping track of how many of each material you've consumed?

Mm'kay.



Something Like Grand Theft Auto: SA would be more appropriate (if ever a change)... but I think the normal stat rising from PSO is decent.

_Tek_
Sep 10, 2005, 12:43 PM
That's what I was talking about, but as described before, everyone certain character at max level would have the same stats as another's of the same race. There'd be a loss of variation, that pso had witht he 3 classes.

Kent
Sep 10, 2005, 02:58 PM
I think, regardless, there should be some automated stat gain apon levelling up. Maybe if they added a SaGa Frontier-esque addition onto it, where your character's stats increased through usage as well, to a cap for that specific level...

That would make it still possible to reach the cap, but you'd have to train your stats to max everything, and it would prevent people from falling too far behind in one stat. So, for example, if you used guns a lot, your ATA would grow a little faster (up to a certain point, dependant on your character's level), but since you weren't using melee weapons as much, your ATP would still go up just from levelling. Of course, the rate at which the stats go up would depend on how much they've gone up from training, as well as the relative level of the monsters you're fighting.

I think something like that would work pretty well with this type of game.

Quo
Sep 10, 2005, 03:04 PM
I'm with Parn. I'd like full control over my characters' growth. If my characters suck, it'd better be my fault! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

_Tek_
Sep 10, 2005, 10:55 PM
Well I'd assume there'd be the basic stat rises as your level up, but then you'd also get to choose a stat to level up more. Like a bonus.

Parn
Sep 11, 2005, 01:02 AM
Yeah, that was basically made mention of earlier. All stats would level up SOME, but you'd get the option of putting an extra point or three wherever you'd want.

I'm for whatever allows some form of variation and choice between players. I just hope it isn't done through materials again.

Alisha
Sep 11, 2005, 04:48 PM
I hope we can allocate stat points when we level up. Material usage is, in my opinion, too limiting. More customization kthx.
I guess I'd just prefer if PSU had more RPG elements than PSO

this would allow for a gimped character though i wouldnt mind it as long as there was a way to correct stats without having to recreate your character

_Tek_
Sep 11, 2005, 06:32 PM
I know, that why I was a bit against it. If I want a POW human, I would obviously focus on pow, but I'll need the right Ata, and dfp of course. I don't know what kind of enemies or item requirements I'll need. I'd assume we get 200 levels again, so that's 200 stat raises you can choose. I can't jsut put them all on pow, or else I'd be screwed on everything else.

But it would be cool if you could just rearrange the bonus stats whenever you want.

I suppose everything will be fine once the stats are released for each level of each race, just like the psow guides for PSO's character.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Tek_ on 2005-09-11 16:36 ]</font>

Spider
Sep 15, 2005, 05:34 AM
I like how in PSO you need to be careful with your items and weaponry, less than stats, with mags and all, I prefer that to character stat building.

PhruitBaskit
Sep 15, 2005, 12:45 PM
I think that it would be a nice feature to pick your stats. It would be cool because then your character could have its own style (offensive, defensive, balanced). The downside is that It would be impossible to get all your stats 100% raised (unless you can use materials to totally fill your stat bars).

I don't think that it would be as cool to pick skill stats to raise. I actually think that would suck. I would much rather be ultra good with all my weapons (guns, swords, canes) and not be a dead eye with a rifle and be terrible with swords.

Rion772
Sep 20, 2005, 05:24 AM
i think there should be manual and auto stat building. if u want you can let your character develope on his/her own and become a balanced fight like they should be or you can raise your own stats...but the catch to that is you cant raise a stat too much or it will stop letting you raise that attribute..like if ur lv 30 and you try to only put up your power non-stop then it wouldnt let you go past like....350 or 400 or something...just an idea =/