How can androids stand high HP?

[Kamica]

Most players think Higher HP=dieing less. This is incorrect. Let me list a few of the nightmares that happen at high HP:

-Not getting knocked down by Gal Gryphon
-Not getting knocked down by Morfos's lasers
-Santemillion's tornados kill you instantly.

None of these things happen until you have like 1700+ HP. There is no reason to need anymore than 1700HP anyway. Especially now that PSOBB has exp loss, I would get very annoyed very fast.

[PJ]

On 2005-09-22 05:42, Kamica wrote:
None of these things happen until you have like 1700+ HP.

???

The most annoying things are the Baranz missiles, and my HUmar/FOmar/RAcast don't fall down to those (132/162/124 respectively), they don't have even close to 1700+ HP (All have just over 1100 HP)

Obviously I've never fought Santemillion, but I'd only think it'd be a blessing not to fall down from the Morfos laser >_> (It gets annoying to get up, heal, maybe get one hit in, and fall down), and there's usually not a lot of Morfos in a room, usually 2 at most.

Gal Gryphon will multihit you if you jellen him too, and I never had a huge problem with that anyways (I mean with the multihitting, not the not jellening Gryphon http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif)

If Baranz are easy to avoid and the rest are none important (Again,, haven't played Episode 4);

More HP = Die less

[Butoden]

Well it's just one of those nasty sideaffects. If you cant take it you should become a Force or something.

[Hrith]

Kamica is a RAmarl, so 1700 HP is right out.

I find it annoying, too, because there is really, absolutely nothing you can do, it's really a stupid part in the programming.

There are countless instances where high HP can be lethal, some are acceptable, most aren't.

For Gal Gryphon, I usually remove my shield, and ask the Force not to use Jellen (sometimes even Deband).

A 3 or 4-people Photon Blast can mean certain death against Gal Gryphon or Saint-Milion, so I usually refuse to do them. And I'm a Lv 177 RAmarl, imagine a Lv 200 RAcaseal/RAcast/HUcast =/

Edit:
Not getting knocked down by Morfos = death is 1 to 2 seconds if the Morfos is not alone, PJ, even less if there are two; and there are quite a few rooms with two Morfos.
It's not a problem in a good team (Resta, bish), or since androids have freeze traps, but it can cause some cheap deaths.

Dying at a "bad time" can mean losing 60,000 experience for me, and that's with a Scape Doll; and again, I'm only Lv 177.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kef on 2005-09-22 08:42 ]</font>

[Scejntjynahl]

On 2005-09-22 08:34, Kef wrote:
A 3 or 4-people Photon Blast can mean certain death against Gal Gryphon or Saint-Milion, so I usually refuse to do them. And I'm a Lv 177 RAmarl, imagine a Lv 200 RAcaseal/RAcast/HUcast =/



This is interesting. I see your point, from your point of view. But. What if the other 3 members are not as high level as you? Would you be willing not to do the 3 or 4 way blast which may benefit them because you don't want to put yourself at risk?

I suppose that its a reason why we have scape dolls and what not. And I suppose you don't want to risk losing experience if you are playing BB. But I would think that doing what is best for the team should be considered, no?

On topic:
High HP does have its draw backs, just the same as been the highest level character in a team (meaning Sorcerors and such for they tend to target high levels first). Yet that same high hp is what saves you from those "single" hits of doom that used to take you out before. Like Falz's swipe and such. And yes we do suffer from the multiple attacks upon us, greatly. But at least we "know" that tends to happen, so we can adjust to the situation. Or just suck it up.

[Zalana]

Well you could always do the 4-way blast and then go to the nurse. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Saiffy]

I have over 1700(Nearing 1800 I think) on my RAcast on GC...I honestly have no idea what people are talking about, Gal always knocks me down, and offline does have the invincibility after getting hit, so morfos' are no problem. Online, there's usually 1-3 other people monsters can attack. The only thing I have a problem with is rafoie in Falz's second form and DRL and Barba Ray's orb things.


That being said, I can imagine Saint-Million on ult, but he is the hardest boss in the game for a reason http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif(Not counting Shambertin or Kondrieu)

[Hrith]

Sen, if people would really want a 4-people Photon Blast, I'd do what PJ said (did it once, actually).

But most of the time, they agree, most people playing Ultimate Desert are above Lv 150, and do not want to die to the spinning feelers because of too high DFP.

But even in your hypothesis, I'd refuse. The "team" would not be able to give me back the 60,000 exp I'd lose. I'm willing to do a lot of things to help create an agreeable teamplay; sacrifice is just not one of those.


Saiffy, if Jellened, Gal Gryphon does not knock Terra down, at 1565 HP.

[Saiffy]

On 2005-09-22 10:12, Kef wrote:
Saiffy, if Jellened, Gal Gryphon does not knock Terra down, at 1565 HP.


I know, but who jellens him? It's common knowledge to most not to.

[Mystil]

Err HP does not cause those things. It is DFP.

Speaking as a HUne, and RAcaseals know all about this too(they have sick DFP).. I don't get knocked down by a darn thing and I have 1302HP. My DFP is 483 ._.

When Gal Gryphon does his opening 'swoop' I will not be knocked down, death often occurs.

Flows dark bridge attack will kill me, while it knocks others down.

Having high DFP in mines is a very bad thing, cause the gilchichs wont knock you down, just beat on you.

[RadiantLegend]

Getting knocked down by morfos or stupid beams from pie worm depends on Hp.

[Skorpius]

I like this mind set of "I'm high level and I should not die". Get over it. You're getting pwned, and the game wins.

[Scejntjynahl]

On 2005-09-23 09:12, Skorpius wrote:
I like this mind set of "I'm high level and I should not die". Get over it. You're getting pwned, and the game wins.



Sucking it up should be good, right? I guess the main concern is dying in BB at high levels. People just do not see any benefit in losing countless hours to just have that lost on a death. Yes, if you get preowned, you get preowned. And the game is designed to defeat you.

Some of us are more sacrificial than others. So they accept the fact of dying and losing exp, but don't care about it. But we can not expect everyone to have the same view, can we now?

And in truth, we all have the feeling of "I'm high level and I should not die" I mean, it makes sense. You do so much to get to a high level so you DON'T die as much as you did once before. So it is annoying to say your level 180 and yet somehow your still dying like you where level 90.

Well actually, who really likes to die at all? Aside from those individuals that accept that dying is part of the game. I am such a person, but I can not lay claim to the experience of losing exp on BB as of yet. But, I'd rather take the "bullet" if it means my teamates can benefit from it. Yet I know that no one really likes to lose... do they?

[Skorpius]

I get this same reaction when my mother plays this one flash game called Lightning. It's a card game, testing speed and accuracy. Similar to Uno, you have to place one card onto one of four piles, and that card has to match either the number, or the color. Arrows under each pile tell you if you should place numbers higher, lower, or equal to the number shown.

She always gets to a high level, and loses. She claims that she shouldn't lose if she's that high, she got so far and she loses, it's unfair. I told her that if she never lost, when would the game "beat you"?

Same logic applies, when does the game "defeat you"? Megid is the only "fair" way everyone sees as a means for the game to defeat you, but that's outdone with EDK. THe player wins, again.

It pwns the shit out of you by rapidly hitting you with damaging attacks, thus killing you nearly instantly. Owned. Recons killed your HUcast in seabed, boo-fusking-hoo. Go do Heat Sword to regain the EXP lost. Don't go into heavy-death areas when you're far into your level (EXP wise). I learned that at level 68, only go into easy areas until you level up, then play other areas to play them. Don't do heavy, IKILLU areas if you want to level up.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-09-23 09:35 ]</font>

[Scejntjynahl]

On 2005-09-23 09:34, Skorpius wrote:
Same logic applies, when does the game "defeat you"? Megid is the only "fair" way everyone sees as a means for the game to defeat you, but that's outdone with EDK. THe player wins, again.


Well even some people would not aggree that Megid is "fair" at all. But I believe what you said in essence is "beware of biting off more than you can chew". Well yeah, one should not think that high level makes you undefeatable. That much I do aggree on.

[Mystil]

Being high lvl simply means you have the mindset to look after the lowbies. You know what can kill you and what cannot kill you. You know that your level doesn't matter in Ruins 1-3, and that Dark Meteor/Falz Freeze attack, will kick yours and everyone elses ass.

You know Dark Bringers' Rifle attack will wipe you silly, and that is dependant on HP, which you need a lot of. You, as a high lvl should know, that Ob Lily over there should not be 'ignored' for too long, unless you like kissing dirt. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Edit to this post and for my previous: I mean Dark Meteor, not Bridge. Meteor is the rifle, bridge is the cane. Meteor is the one that shoots the green crap during his first form, that we all hate.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2005-09-23 11:57 ]</font>

[_Tek_]

On 2005-09-22 05:42, Kamica wrote:
-Not getting knocked down by Gal Gryphon
-Not getting knocked down by Morfos's lasers
-Santemillion's tornados kill you instantly.


That's not due to high HP, those things happen because your DFP is too high. You are tough enough not to get knocked down, but at multiple hits you absorb everything and die.

HP is actually a great thing.

[Skorpius]

Getting knocked over isn't based off of HP Percentage. ;/ There are attacks that deal nearly no damage and still knock you over, and others that take well over one third of your HP bar and you still stand.

[trypticon]

Not being knocked over is just something you end up getting used to, and it helps a lot if you are not experienced with other types of characters really. In the end, as your HP might become a problem, you really won't even know it because by then you have the experience with your character enough to avoid being hit, or if you are hit, you have the experience to know when to use a mate to save yourself, not that it works out 100% of the time, but far more often than not, you are safe.

Having high HP, while perhaps causing a problem some of the times, such as the @#$%ing dervants from FALZ in ultimate are one example of being a problem when you don't fall over after being hit, but these can be avoided easily. Oops, runon sentence back there. Anyway, the high HP allows you to withstand one or two more hits from a monster on ultimate, sometimes giving you enough time to kill the monster, then heal yourself.

Difficult to explain to people who don't have experience with the massive amount of HP that a high level android features. It's really just something you have to experience along the levels and get used to.

[Hrith]

Just correcting one thing to all the n00bs that said DFP matters in this.

It is HP, I'm 100% sure of it.
Why? Morfos Lasers, Gillchich/Dubchich Lasers, Baranz Missiles, Dark Falz Rafoie, etc. are either fixed or elemental attacks.

Really, not seeing this was truly pathetic.

Skorpius is ritht, though, some attacks will knock you down no matter what (Crimson Assassin Charge, Merissa AA Dive, etc.)

IIRC, it's 20% or more of your HP that makes you fall down.

[Scejntjynahl]

On 2005-09-24 11:07, Kef wrote:
Just correcting one thing to all the people that said DFP matters in this.

It is HP, I'm 100% sure of it.
Why? Morfos Lasers, Gillchich/Dubchich Lasers, Baranz Missiles, Dark Falz Rafoie, etc. are either fixed or elemental attacks.

Really, not seeing this is truly surprising.

Skorpius is right, though, some attacks will knock you down no matter what (Crimson Assassin Charge, Merissa AA Dive, etc.)

IIRC, it's 20% or more of your HP that makes you fall down.



Made a few modifications to your post. I hope you don't mind.

On the Crimson Assasin Charge bit, I can block it... so I don't get knocked down from it. It just goes right through me.

And if you are certain that its not DFP, why would Shifta/Deband worry you when you face off Gal Gryphon? You did say you wouldnt participate in a 4 way photon blast... Im assuming because it would give you too much DFP. So are you not contradicting yourself here? If it is solely HP as you just said right now, DFP wouldnt matter, right?

I am a bit confused. DFP, EVA, HP all play a part on how you react to enemy attacks, no?

Is it possible that is a combination off all things mentioned thus far?

[Saiffy]

Gal and Sinow knock you down depending on DFP, since they are not fixed damage attacks. Gillchich's lasers and Morfos' lasers are fixed however and depend on HP.


I always assumed the only way Gal would not knock you down was if Jellen was involved, regardless of how much DFP a person has. Maybe I'm wrong here? And if I am, how much DFP is too much?

[Sizzors]

On 2005-09-24 11:27, Saiffy wrote:

I always assumed the only way Gal would not knock you down was if Jellen was involved, regardless of how much DFP a person has. Maybe I'm wrong here? And if I am, how much DFP is too much?



Assuming you're talking about the swoop, it's DFP, I can put on a D parts 2.1 and stand there in VH watching it pummel me standing, if I take it off, then I'm knocked down. I'm pretty sure the damage is fixed, but I've never bothered to check.

But the stomp will always knock you down, on normal it does, and on H and VH. Jellen does lessen the damage, but I still fall down.

[watashiwa]

I'm pretty sure it's only based on HP as well. But at the same time, DFP also plays a part, and that's ONLY because the amount of DFP you have determines how much HP damage you take. (This is also the reason Kef doesn't want to participate in 4 way Photon Blasts, because your DFP goes up so high that the amount of HP damage you take from Gal Gryphon's charge is low enough that it doesn't knock you down. I'm surprised you guys couldn't figure that out.)

It's pretty easy to do tests on this matter with an AR. =P Make a level 1 character, get knocked down a bit, put in AR code for a massive amount of HP, use the same character, "Oh wow, I didn't get knocked down!" (Another simple test, I guess a bit easier, level 1 character in Forest, they usually get knocked down by one hit. Get a 4 slot Frame with 4 God/HPs and watch you not get knocked down anymore..)

Of course, you'd need an AR to test this, but I've already done it for you.

Basically, lots of things play a part in how much damage you take on certain attacks. Resistances for magic. DFP for physical. Then there's the fixed damage. If the final amount of damage you take after all calculations is more than about 20% of your HP, you get knocked down.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: watashiwa on 2005-09-24 15:06 ]</font>

[Mystil]

Ah well the hell.

(Is a noob according to Kef's logic).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Silhouette on 2005-09-24 16:43 ]</font>

[Sharkyland]

I remember going through normal with my HUne and still getting owned by a Garanz due to the infamous double hit.

HP, well, I'm used to falling up and getting back up. Usually begin to shortcut mates when the hated enemy appears.

[Nai_Calus]

I stopped using God/HP on my FOmar because his HP combined with the effects of his Deband and Jellen made him start getting owned MORE. XD

And as a FOmar I'm quite fond of 4-ways. Not only do they make Zero generally die less, it saves me the trouble of worrying about S/D renewal until someone eats it. XP

Well, that and the power rush that comes from seeing a FOmar with 2000+ ATP. >_>

I suppose I should try actually playing PSO again someday. I haven't actually done it in like... A couple of months. I've been paying for my GC HL, too. XP

[kazuma56]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/kazuma56/8409856_27705075_0.jpg

My Ramar's HP should be around 1780+ when and if I ever go to 200, but I never had much problems with it, since his DFP isn't that high it sorta balances is out what will and will not knock me down. For instance, with lvl 15 deban in ultimate my RAmar can stand up to a dolmolm non-crit attack but i'm sure (not 100% but pretty sure enough) that he gets knocked down with a critical, not sure if thats the case with a cast but it works for a Ramar.

IMO not getting knocked down by morfos' beams is better then getting hit down, I remeber when my friend brought is Ramarl over and we were doing S.Bed runs and split up at some point, and he ended up getting knocked down by a morfos beam then surrounded by squids, while my Ramar or high HP character wouldnt get in that predicament.

it has it perks, but it depends on the player if the good outweighs the bad.

[DezoPenguin]

All the fun I miss by not playing online. ^_^

Seriously, though, that's why this isn't a problem for people like us, Kazuma. In offline games, even when you don't get knocked down, there's a momentary blip of invincibility so you can't get machinegunned to death by whatever's surrounding you. That's why my first reaction to this topic (years ago, I mean), was "Don't Jellen Gal Gryphon?!? What, are you crazy?"--what makes good sense offline is a good way to get dead online, sometimes.

[kazuma56]

On 2005-09-25 07:39, DezoPenguin wrote:
All the fun I miss by not playing online. ^_^

Seriously, though, that's why this isn't a problem for people like us, Kazuma. In offline games, even when you don't get knocked down, there's a momentary blip of invincibility so you can't get machinegunned to death by whatever's surrounding you. That's why my first reaction to this topic (years ago, I mean), was "Don't Jellen Gal Gryphon?!? What, are you crazy?"--what makes good sense offline is a good way to get dead online, sometimes.



true, but like I said, it's all on the player, A morfos doesn't spam beams as fast as say, some fonewman spamming RAfoie, it has a little recharge time, so me just getting "irked" by it would give me time to run away from upcoming enemies or other things , but I can imagine how much more bad it would be for my friends RAmarl online (falls down then gets surrounded and downed in like 2 hits because of beams and dolmolm's and or Zoa's, biters (depends on what online quest).

[Hrith]

1) You say that a Morfos does not spam laser that fast, yeah, maybe, what about two Morfos ? >_>
More?

2) Online, getting knocked down is a good thing. Sure, if you're soloing online Seabed with average HP (which is not possible on GC), and get surrounded, you will die, eventually, even if you select Resta before getting up. But if you do not fall from lasers, etc. because of high HP, you'll die before even getting surrounded.

[Skorpius]

They're called Dimates, Kef. Having Resta doesn't stop you from using items.

[Dana]

On 2005-09-25 10:56, Skorpius wrote:
They're called Dimates, Kef. Having Resta doesn't stop you from using items.


Yeah, and your eventually run out well bofre they are akll dead...

To me, Higher HP>lower HP

but i am offline:P

i don't know how i is online but i know what happned when a morfos meet a frozen you..

YOU DIE ...and FAST!!!!!


SO online it's nice to get kncoked over, you need over 1500 hp for online morfos i think!!!OVER 1550 ISH....

[kazuma56]

On 2005-09-25 10:13, Kef wrote:
1) You say that a Morfos does not spam laser that fast, yeah, maybe, what about two Morfos ? >_>
More?


Doesn't make a difference really, if you know the spawns, you will probably stay at 1 part of the room where only 1 can shoot you, and the 2 morfos thing usually means jack because if you don't see them appear, they cannot hit you. Try going into a room when a morfos spawns after killing some enemies, if you change the view to where you cannot see them appear and just blind fire, you WILL NOT get hit by their beams, you'll see them fly by you or fly in weird areas, but they will never hit you, at best, if 2 are in the room maybe 1 will get you but the other will not, hence why I said what I did.

This applies to GC PSO, haven't touched seabed much in BB so I don't know of ST fixed this glitch/problem.

[Mystil]

On 2005-09-25 07:39, DezoPenguin wrote:
"--what makes good sense offline is a good way to get dead online, sometimes.





Yea just like you could get away with 155ATA in EP2 offline, but you wont be hitting a darn thing with that online.

[Hrith]

Skorpykins... Dimates, you cannot be serious. You cam add 10 Trimates and 10 Star Atomizers, it won't make a difference: you have a char with average or low HP and you're surrounded, you die, eventually; you have a char with high HP and you're surrounded, you die, immediately. Resta Lv.15, 20, 30, Dimates and Trimates do not change that.
We're talking about soloing online, huh.


Kazuma, you've definitely never played online Seabed to pretend one or two Morfos makes no difference, not to mention rooms you cannot escape from.

[Scejntjynahl]

All of this just sounds like its a very dumb idea to even bother leveling your character. Come on... look at what has been said so far:

More DFP = DEATH

More HP = DEATH

Higher Level Techs = DEATH

All saying the higher you level the quicker you die. So why bother?

[Skorpius]

On 2005-09-26 06:39, Kef wrote:
Skorpykins... Dimates, you cannot be serious.
Yes, Dimates. Remember, I play solo quite a bit. (;

[kazuma56]

Kazuma, you've definitely never played online Seabed to pretend one or two Morfos makes no difference, not to mention rooms you cannot escape from.


yep, again, like i said if you read my other post, if you (even with teammates) turn your camera so that you only hear a morfos appear and not see it, you won't get hit, at best 1 outta the 2-3 will hit you but you will never get barraged by all 3.

I never said anything about leaving the room, at my lvl on GC I never do leave a room, i'm too far above that tactic.

[Hrith]

But the trick to avoid damage from Morfos Lasers only works if there are only Morfos in the room, add a Zoa, and you're dead (or the corridor that has one Morfos at each end).

Or the final room or Phantasmal World #3 >_>

[Skorpius]

Good thing Morfos only appears in one area of one episode!

[Saiffy]

Phantasy Star Online

Wouldn't be much point of an online game if you solo'd all the time, am I right?(I was tempted to type "amirite" http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif)

[PhotonDrop]

Personally I have never found Morfos to be a problem. Even when there were two. Even when I was online.

Weave and duck through the lasers and get close to one instead of trying to snipe them. If you get hit just use a Mate, it gives you more time to get a couple shots in before getting hit again than what Resta does.

Going solo once and a while gives you better survival skills.

[Bladehunter]

This thread really amused me. Not that I have the slightest idea of how Morfoses are Online, but having high HP has always benefitted me. Morfos is a bit*h since it spams it's frikkin laser which takes a good 1/4 of 1530 hp. And my HUmar has 196 base ATA and if he misses one hit in the Double Saber combo, (usually the second strike(And using God/Battle)) I get pwned by the laser. so I try as often as i can to get to an elevated area, like the ramps in the water-filled rooms and snipe them, as they "can't" hit me there, the beams go into the ramp.

As for Jellening Gal, I don't see why to. I get him down in 5 mins with Mylla/Joulla and a red handgun in offline. Just stay out of his stomp.
And a summary to the "knockdown effect", it is based on hp, and DEF reduces the damage taken from an attack so that you don't get knocked. Simple as that. As for being frozen, I hope all of you know that any damage taken will keep you standing (Gotta hate Sinow Zoa's Rabarta freeze and a frikkin recon comes and saws you to death >.<)

And then to the point. preferring high hp or moderate is an oppinion, trying to find out what is the better is pointless since we'll always be split into two sides arguing until one side tires of it all. But I remember trying to play PSO on my friend's DC and I got pwned in hard mines on lv 45 something >.< Those gillchics just wouldn't stop hitting.

[kazuma56]

On 2005-09-26 19:39, Kef wrote:
But the trick to avoid damage from Morfos Lasers only works if there are only Morfos in the room, add a Zoa, and you're dead (or the corridor that has one Morfos at each end).

Or the final room or Phantasmal World #3 >_>



Actually, isn't there a rom in single player/regular runs that has 2 morfos and 1 Zoa/zele? I'm not 100% sure but I usually my fire my FS in that enemies general direction or use a shot, either way I usually don't get barraged, we all play PSO differently so I wouldn't expect you to do stuff I do and vise-versa.

[Dana]

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif i don't see why everyone is getting so worked up, just level! http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

You'll die if your low, you'll die if your hight, just....it's nice to not die at all, but the only way that not going to happen is if you don't play:P

If your finding the good places hard .

Go lap forest a few more times:P

[Saiffy]

On 2005-09-27 00:20, Bladehunter wrote:


The reason it's different online is because you do not get a grace period after being hit, you can be damaged right after you just got hit online. Since Gal's stomping hits multiple times, if you don't fall down. Well...

[Bladehunter]

On 2005-09-27 04:23, Saiffy wrote:


On 2005-09-27 00:20, Bladehunter wrote:


The reason it's different online is because you do not get a grace period after being hit, you can be damaged right after you just got hit online. Since Gal's stomping hits multiple times, if you don't fall down. Well...



So simply said, online is just like DC times? Man, gotta hate ULT mines then >.< Now I can see why people clash here. Thanks for the info, you learn something new everyday.