Networking Questions

[Curiosity]

Ok to start with I have not yet contacted Linksys or D-Link for help on this, and am hoping I don't have to as they may or may not want to actually provide much help considering they are competitors (but who knows, customer satisfaction and all). I have looked through the manual on the CD included with the D-Link router, a D-Link Air Premier AG DI-784, which did nothing but make me question what I thought I already kinda thought. I do have a few questions so kindly bear with me.

First up is actually adding in the new router to my existing network. Please note that I do not want to replace my existing router, a Linksys BEFSRU31, with the new one, the aforementioned DI-784. I merely want to expand the network to include it and the wireless access it provides, in essence relegating AP duties only. I'm sure that includes disabling its DHCP as my current router is my current acting DHCP server, correct?

Now how I thought it would be connected, was by using a crossover cable from the Linksys Uplink port to the WAN port on the D-Link. I kind of referenced this in a question elsewhere, and someone said a straight-through cable in a standard port on the Linksys, although I don't recall what port on the D-Link (I'm assuming WAN?). There was no difinitive answer provided in the D-Link's CD Manual, only references on when to use what type of cable, none of which really matched my situation that I noticed. Actually this might come close but I'm not sure:
Hub/Switch uplink port to another Hub/Switch normal port - Straight-through But from the looks of that they don't mean WAN port. So what would be the best, or maybe that should be correct, way to connect it? Also mentioned in the D-Link manual was MAC Address Cloning of the network adapter, but that's also (I'm guessing) with relation to it being the primary (only?) router on the network. Is this something that I need/should do? I've already done this with the Linksys router.

Something else I'm a little curious about is internal IPs. It currently isn't an issue because everything is in the Linksys IP range. However the D-Link will likely want everything within its IP range, which is obviously different from Linksys'(s?). Might that be related to how the network is set up? I'm kind of assuming that if the Linksys will be acting as the DHCP server everything will have to follow the Linksys IP range, right? Which would also mean possibly assigning an IP (maybe a static IP?) to the D-Link router. But I could very well be wrong on this.

Next question pertains to what standard to use. Should I use A or G? Pros/cons to either that would make it the better choice? Currently there are no B clients in the mix to consider, which may or may not change in the future considering potential consoles. As for potential area interference, the room in which the router will be residing there is a 2.4GHz phone (only one in the house). In the rest of the house, there are currently two 5.8GHz phones (one station with one additional handset, you know that type of system?), nearish the other end of the adjoining room and the other end of the house. I should also note that the 5.8s are at the opposite end of the house (more or less) as the wireless client, and router, will be residing. The 2.4, and router, are in the room directly below the wireless client. There really isn't anything else that would be in the direct line from router to client, aside from whatever is in the floor, that might be sources of interference that I can think of. Although there is a microwave on the opposite side of the room with the router.

I think that covers everything. If info is missing, or unclear, I can try to provide more or clearer info.

[VioletSkye]

Sorry for the late reply, but I've been spending alot more time with my girlfriend so I haven't checked PSOW as much. Anyway I just woke up so I'm kinda groggy, but if I understand correctly, you simply want to add another router into your network. First off, why are you wanting 2 routers in line anyway? If the newer router has wireless then that should cover all the machines. If you really want to connect (bridge) the routers together, maybe I can put together a small guide for you.

I'll cover the A vs G issue. Without all the techno babble know that in your case A is less likely to have RF issues with cordless phones, microwaves etc. The downside is that because it is on a higher 5GHz range (which is regulated) it has shorter range and is more easily obstructed by walls, floors etc. A is also NOT compatible with B (because of the different ranges they operate on.)

G on the other hand operates in the 2.4GHz range and is compatible with B. It also is less likely to be obstructed by walls, floors, but more likely to have interference problems with appliances.






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2005-09-23 13:01 ]</font>

[Curiosity]

No worries, I'm actually a little more concerned with my other little problem as it looks like it may be starting to affect other things.

Now as for why I want to add in (bridge) the routers is mainly because I finally got my current router actually working correctly... :/ Not that it was "bad" before, just that my connection was being dropped at various times for no apparent reason, whether I was active or not... It was a semi-recent development that I took up with Linksys Support (after contacting my ISP). Which (imo) took longer than it may have needed because the person kept "sidestepping" my direct questions until they were darn well ready to answer them and then only partially... -__-; Anyway, that's really the only reason, even though I know that just swapping the router would be easier, I would just prefer not to... Sorry... :/ I will keep an open mind though and consider options.

Now as for the A vs G thing, yeah I know all the compatibility issues wit A, B, and G, and most of the interference issues. For the most part the physical set up was previously described, and the router, network card would be well within thirty actual feet, possibly thirty-five tops. But given floor-intersection angle, it may seem like a greater distance to the signal. Given the set up, is one the more obvious choice over the other (that for whatever reason I'm too blind to see)? I know A is "better" over shorter distances, and it's also got a shorter overall range, etc. And G may or may not be arguably "better" in mid-ranges, depending on which reviews are looked at. Which is kind of the reason for even bringing it up. I suppose I could get a tape measure and get a better estimate of actual straight-line distance, heh I could actually put some of that math I learned in school to use. (Residential floors are what, six to eight inches thick?) On the other hand I suppose I could also just wait and try them both out to see which actually works better.

[VioletSkye]

I would go with G personally. The reason being, is that I have cordless phones and 2 microwaves and I have yet to have any issues (yes I know it has to do with specific frequencies and some phones will cause problems where others won't, same with other appliances.) Anyway it could very well give you a stronger signal through walls/floors as mentioned. If on the rare chance that you are getting too much interference, then exchange it for an A setup and if you have issues with obstruction, pick up a signal booster. I'm at my girlfriends house atm, but when I get home I'll post an easy to follow setup that should get your newer router on your current network. http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


**UPDATE**
Configure router A to issue DHCP addresses in some range that does not include one IP address that we will use for router B For example, router A might only issue IP's in the range 192.168.0.2 to 192.168.0.200 and we'll configure router B with 192.168.0.233. This is all the setup that is required for router A, which otherwise has DHCP enabled and its usual WAN setup for your ISP.

Disable DHCP for router B, and configure its WAN to any STATIC IP. Specify a gateway IP of 0.0.0.0 (or perhaps 192.168.111.1--some routers will not allow 0.0.0.0). This will stop it sending traffic to its WAN (we won't be using this router's WAN connection). Further configure the WAN Type to be Static with a WAN IP of 192.168.111.2 perhaps (should be different to the A network), and a Subnet Mask of 255.255.255.0.

The LAN configuration for router B should be set to STATIC with an IP address within the subnet of router A but outside its DHCP range. We might set the LAN IP to 192.168.0.233 with a Subnet Mask of 255.255.255.255 and with DHCP Disabled. In fact, router A will serve as the DHCP server for anything connected to router B.

Make sure nothing is plugged into router B's WAN. Connect a LAN ethernet port of router B to a LAN ethernet port of router A to have them talking to each other.

Hope that all makes sense http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2005-09-25 18:43 ]</font>

[Curiosity]

Alright I think I got it. I did notice however that you were using the IP range of the D-Link router, for my purposes and this example Router B. Is that important? Or would it actually be within Router A's IP range being a different brand, in my case a Linksys, being 192.168.1.x? I'm assuming it'd need to be within A's range since that's the only way it can assign IPs, but I just want to make sure. (The more I think about it, this was probably obvious and didn't even need to be asked to be made any clearer... -__-;)

Hmm I should almost set it up now, even though I don't have my client yet, just to make sure I can get it right.

[Curiosity]

Alright, this is actually starting to annoy me. I was trying to set up the second router (the D-Link), applying various changes (I ran the wizard first just because), when after one of its alleged "restarts" I couldn't access the router any more (the operation timed out). I was looking for the area to set its Static IP at the time. Anyway, I don't know where to "find" the router since it keeps timing out at the default IP, and it isn't showing up anywhere I can see in the Linksys stuff. I can/could access the internet, so it's more or less working, even though I can't access the router. For some reason after a while, at some point I could no longer access the internet but could access the router again. Resumed looking for the LAN (IP) area, although I think I know where it is now, applied a change to the Wireless (WPA-PSK for the G), lost access to the router/regained 'net access again. Which is where I'm currently at, been waiting for a while now to try regain access to the router.

I'd rather not reset the router, but will if it comes down to it. I'm not currently too worried about someone random person freeloading off my connection as I've pretty much got the wireless locked down (as far as I know anyway). Both A and G are 152-Bit WEP Enabled. The G is also WPA-PSK Enabled and is not broadcasting its SSID, it was the last thing I changed access to the router was lost. I hadn't gotten to the A yet on that.

Ok, regained router access, disabled it's DHCP, attempted to assign it an IP within the Linksys range, got an "Invalid IP" message. Then promptly lost router access after applying the DHCP disable. I can't seem to find a consistent way to regain router access... I'll try to assign it an IP within the Linksys (only way I can see changing its range is by changing where it starts assiging IPs) again when I regain access. I tried assiging it an IP below that start point when I got the invalid ip message.

Any solution to the intermittent access to the D-Link? And btw, yes I am doing this while hard-wired to the network (directly to the D-Link actually) using a laptop. Is it under some other IP when I lose access to it?

[VioletSkye]

Personally I would ditch the older router and have everything go through the wireless. My schedule is hectic so I haven't had a chance to really examine your post above but when I have some time, I'll go through it and try to figure out where the snag is. Go ahead and save the configuration of the router then do a factory reset so you can start from scratch. I haven't used a Linksys or D-Link for awhile (I'm a Netgear guy lol) so refresh my memory on what the default IP ranges are for both. I'm thinking Linksys defaults to 192.160.0.1 but I may be wrong.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2005-10-04 18:11 ]</font>

[Curiosity]

Well, I'm still considering just swapping out the Linksys. I'd still rather not, but will if it comes to it. I actually would save the current configuration to disk... if I could actually access the router that is... I'm still unable to access it... :/ But I may just do the factory reset anyway since not being able to access the router well... sucks... I am kind of curious though, if I could make various changes in different umm, menus I guess, then just apply it once when I've finished?

IP ranges:

Linksys = 192.168.1.1
D-Link = 192.168.0.1

[Dhylec]

Ah, this brings back my school day lessons. Heh, your situation is complicated, hopefully I can help..

Right now, you have 2 routers within the same LAN. Your Linksys, router A, is acting as the default gateway to the internet. It's also the current DHCP server that's handling out ip in the 192.168.1.x network.

Now, you wanna add a Dlink, router B, to your LAN without replacing A. You tried giving B a static ip, but failed? Well, Dhcp means dynamic, so static wouldn't work there, unless you disable A's Dhcp.. meaning you have to manually enter ip address for each node/pc in your Lan. That can be a hassle in the long run.

Also, if you notice, A has a port called "uplink", not WAN - Wan is for your modem. Uplink is a port on either the very left or right - look. That's where you should use to connect B, with a cross-over cable. In theory, router to router should use cross-over, but nowsaday, they are supposedly smarter & "know" to "rewire" the pins internally when you use a straight-thru. But, use a cross-over just in case.

Heh, if A sees B, then you have the work more than half done. I'll continue once you tested to see if my suggestion work. ;3

[Curiosity]

On 2005-10-05 09:44, Dhylec wrote:
Ah, this brings back my school day lessons. Heh, your situation is complicated, hopefully I can help..

Right now, you have 2 routers within the same LAN. Your Linksys, router A, is acting as the default gateway to the internet. It's also the current DHCP server that's handling out ip in the 192.168.1.x network.

Now, you wanna add a Dlink, router B, to your LAN without replacing A. You tried giving B a static ip, but failed? Well, Dhcp means dynamic, so static wouldn't work there, unless you disable A's Dhcp.. meaning you have to manually enter ip address for each node/pc in your Lan. That can be a hassle in the long run.

Also, if you notice, A has a port called "uplink", not WAN - Wan is for your modem. Uplink is a port on either the very left or right - look. That's where you should use to connect B, with a cross-over cable. In theory, router to router should use cross-over, but nowsaday, they are supposedly smarter & "know" to "rewire" the pins internally when you use a straight-thru. But, use a cross-over just in case.

Heh, if A sees B, then you have the work more than half done. I'll continue once you tested to see if my suggestion work. ;3



That's actually kinda how I originally thought it'd be added in. Actually I thought Uplink -> Cross-over -> WAN. But anyway, it's now Uplink -> Cross-over -> Port 1. Was previously Port 3 -> Cross-over -> Port 1. I'll look into it more a bit later, right now I needa get ready for work... -__-;

Also, as of yet I've not reset the D-Link.

EDIT: Actually I'm not entirely sure what you meant by "if A sees B" either. I don't see the D-Link listed anywhere in the Linksys info. Nor can I access the D-Link from the laptop yet. But I still have not reset it yet either though. It's also possible I misunderstood and connected wrong.

UPDATE: Router has now been reset to factory defaults. First thing done was disable DHCP, click "Apply", router restarts itself (which I still hate since that screen just sits there). There is now internet access through router, but now can not access router again. >__< (This is what's really pissing me off, always losing access to the router after applying a change.) Actually since the wireless is no longer locked down I decided to disconnect the router until this gets worked out. I likely don't have a lot to worry about, but ehh.

Anyway, how do I maintain/regain access to the router after making changes since I'm apparently forced to apply each change after I make it, and it insists on restarting each time?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Curiosity on 2005-10-06 13:19 ]</font>

[Dhylec]

Ok, you lost access to the router after disabling dhcp?
Did you assign a static ip for the router? for the pcs in your Lan? How is the set-up for your Lan now?

I do not have the need to disable dhcp, so I have yet to know what effects exactly are. But, constant restarting? check for latest firmware?

[Curiosity]

On 2005-10-06 21:09, Dhylec wrote:
Ok, you lost access to the router after disabling dhcp?
Did you assign a static ip for the router? for the pcs in your Lan? How is the set-up for your Lan now?

I do not have the need to disable dhcp, so I have yet to know what effects exactly are. But, constant restarting? check for latest firmware?

Actually I've consistently lost access (the process would time out while trying to connect) to the router after applying any change. Sometimes access would return, sometimes (most actually) it would not. I disabled the DHCP after I reset the router (the D-Link), it was the first thing I did, well second actually. I first tried to see if I could make changes without having to apply each one, which it turned out I can't. I did not try to assign any static IPs to anything on the network. The two computers connected to the Linksys are assigned IPs by its DHCP. The D-Link is currently not connected since the wireless is not locked down.

Yes, constant restarting, after applying any change to the D-Link it restarts itself (it's something I'm seriously not liking about this D-Link). The resulting screen that it shows then just sits there. I've waited to see if it would at some point go away, but it doesn't seem to. I click "Continue" and I either get a "Connection refused" message or it times out. As for firmware, it appears that the firmware installed on it currently is right between the two listed on D-Link's site. As I recall it's ver 2.37, but I'm not 100% positive on that. I just know it's not the 2.38 (or 2.36) listed on their site. I'll likely reset the router again (to regain access), and update its firmware first thing.