Sting Tip & Curst, Saber or not?

[Skorpius]

First, ask yourself what would make a weapon a Saber. What attributes would a weapon have to hold to classify itself as a saber?

Then ask yourself the same thing about Canes.

It's been belived that these two weapons are FO-only saber type weapons, based on the icon they were given. It's difficult to tell exactly what they are, Curst swings only once, and Sting Tip looks like a Cane. Canes and Sabers share animations, Canes being slightly slower, so I tested the audio of swings on a few different weapons to see what's what.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Snapshots/allthree.jpg

This is the first test I did a couple days ago.

Red = Sting Tip
Blue = Buster
Black = Cane

As you can see, Sting Tip is faster than a Buster, the delays between sounds is shorter than the other two weapons. Also, the sound is different than that of the other two, Sting Tip's sound is closer to Saber than Cane, but is higher pitched.

Actually, all three share the same sound effect, pitched differently, so sound effects mean nothing.

Today, I tested a Cane with a God/Battle against Sting Tip.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Snapshots/godbattle.jpg

As you can see, very close. Difficult to get a clear reading due to interference and difference in sound effects, but you can see the obvious similarities. I couldn't test a Saber with other Battle Units, since I don't have them.

Evil Curst is difficult to test, though, since it swings once, and you can't base Saber/Cane animation on one swing. They're the same thing.

So it comes down to stats and attributes.

What do they have in common with Sabers?

~ They have a SWORD icon. It's been there since Dreamcast.

What do they have in common with Canes?

~ Sting Tip and Evil Curst boost EVP by 40 and 50, respectively. All other canes boost EVP (Except Flower Cane, but that's an offline C-mode prize. Those are wacky and weird anyway).

~ Sting Tip and Evil Curst boost MST by 30 and 35, respectively. All other 10, 11, and 12 star canes boost MST.

~ They both list themselves as Canes. Granted, there are other weapons with crossterm descriptions, but we all know Twin Blaze is a Twin Saber, and Rainbow Baton is a Slicer. Those are obvious.

~ They are Force only weapons. Sting Tip and Evil Curst would be the only two weapons in the game that can't be used by their icon's respective class (Sword = Hunter, Gun = Ranger, Cane = Force). All other Guns can be used by at least one Ranger, all other Canes can be used by at least one Force.

There are mistakes in PSO, why can't these icons be 'typos'? Just because they've been in the game since Dreamcast means nothing. Davil Tail has been thought of a typo for a while now, and so have other, more noticable, mistakes.

Why did I do this? Bordem, really. I've always wanted to make sure for myself what these things were, so I did it now. Don't flame me for speaking my mind, or insult me because you think differently.

Just tell me what you think.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-09-28 16:25 ]</font>

[REJ-]

They could be sabers though. Some sword weapons increase MST or EVP, so it could be like that. And some swords need MST to wield. They could just be their own weapon class like SpreadNeedle, cause they sit on the border line between weapons.

[Skorpius]

On 2005-09-28 17:40, REJ- wrote:
They could be sabers though. Some sword weapons increase MST or EVP, so it could be like that. And some swords need MST to wield. They could just be their own weapon class like SpreadNeedle, cause they sit on the border line between weapons.

Are these other sword weapons sabers that increase MST AND EVP by over 30? As stated, Canes boost EVP as a standard, and also boost MST as they get into the 10-12 star range. Just because a dagger increases MST by 15, or a Claw increases EVP by 15, doesn't make this point any less important.

The only SWORD weapon that requires MST is Elysion. But that doesn't matter because it's a HU usable Saber, it follows the rules that at least one Hunter can use it. Holy Ray does the same thing, RAmars and RAmarls aren't restricted from using it, given that they gain the requirement to do so.
(Eipsode 3 even says that RAmars can use it).

Spread Needle is clearly using Rifle animation, and is still useable by Rangers. The fact that it's target amount, and range is altered, doesn't mean much in this situation.

Is there anything else that could show that they are, infact, sabers? Because, so far, there isn't anything as conclusive as the facts that state they are canes. The icon is the only thing that hints that they might be swords, which also means that it could just be a mistake.

Episode 3 classifies them both as canes, not swords. They both count toward Cane Count bonuses.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-09-28 17:53 ]</font>

[PJ]

It's the animation Skorp, they're exactly the same as Saber (Well, I never tried Evil Curst, obviously)

The Saber animation is faster than the Cane (Unless you're a FOmarl >_>), and Sting Tip was faster than a basic Cane on my FOmar.

If we're going to get technical, then yes, they look like Canes, but yeah. In the end, they swing the same as sabers, they are sabers (In my book).

For other people, the Spread Needle argument wold hold here, but not for me. Spread Needle is a Rifle http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SUPAH_CHAO on 2005-09-28 19:15 ]</font>

[Blitzkommando]

"Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar."

That being said, if it looks like a cane, acts like a cane, and sounds like a cane, then it is probably a cane. Since these do not sound like canes does that mean they are not canes? I would say that they are canes, with a simple error of the wrong symbol and custom sounds. With so many other, hmm, 'errors' in PSO, I wouldn't think it would be too far fetched to think this is the case here.

[Skorpius]

On 2005-09-28 19:13, SUPAH_CHAO wrote:
It's the animation Skorp, they're exactly the same as Saber (Well, I never tried Evil Curst, obviously)

The Saber animation is faster than the Cane (Unless you're a FOmarl >_>), and Sting Tip was faster than a basic Cane on my FOmar.
Look at the first image in my first post. I did say Sting Tip was faster than Canes, and even Sabers. The image shows this, the animation sounds occur quicker than the other two weapons, so the point that it's faster than Canes is moot. You could say it's a saber with General/Battle speed, but it doesn't matter anyway, because it's also plausable that it's a Cane with God/Battle speed, and either could be correct. Evil Curst only has one swing, and it is difficult to actually get a correct speed estimate from it.

It's just that it is much more plausable to have two canes with image mistakes, than two sabers with wacky stats and attributes.

Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2005-09-28 20:00 ]</font>

[PJ]

I think you're making it more complicated than it actually is, but yeah, you're bored I guess http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Am I the only one who thinks the simpler explanation is that, well, it's faster than a Cane, it's a saber? >_> I'm not saying you're wrong, but, yeah, simple.

[Skorpius]

The thing is, just because it's simple doesn't mean it's correct. It is faster than a Cane, yes, but it's also faster than a Saber.

[Tycho]

I'm interested in seeing how this turns out. It'd be good if someone could compare the animation speed of Curst to those of Sabers and Canes. CE + Fraps maybe?

EDIT: I thought about it some more, and am starting to find the theory less credible despite your arguments. I mean, I doubt ST even sets the icon for each separate item; I think that they just assign a weapon a certain weapon class (i.e.: Saber), after which the game would automatically assign the item the appropriate icon (so, the HU weapon icon). So if they really did typo it (assuming my assumptions are correct), they would have actually typoed it so that it now would really be a Saber.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tycho on 2005-09-29 03:59 ]</font>

[REJ-]

Just call it "Saber-Cane(forcetype)" the same way Spread needle is called "rifle(needle)". No matter how agruements go, this will always work.

[Sizzors]

Force only Swords? Sounds Possible.