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Blackwaltz-R
Nov 12, 2005, 07:27 AM
This thread isn't meant to cause any uproars, only to illustarte a point, as were posts in another thread that got locked today.. but if the mods feel that this thread may cause another ruckus then don't hesitate to lock this one but I just want peeps to hear me out. This thread may seem pointless buy only to those who don't get the message and impresisons being expressed rather than focusing on what is contrary to how they feel.

I am not trying to change anyoens minds or opinions, I only want to stimulate thought and to express some of my own Ideas in a thread I expect to be very bloated.. sorry in advance.

At first I didn't plan to come back since my point would always get drowned out by what I say rather than what I mean. I even made the point that I wasn't bashing PSU yet for some only focused on the words rather than the message. If I didn't like the game I wouldn't be here, I wouldn't still play psoeps1&2 to pacify my anxiousness to play PSU. When you have thought about all the good things about somehting you look forward to theirs pretty much nothing else to focus on that some of the more negative things(atleast for someone like me who constantly thinks).

I could only Delude myself for so long till I started thinking about how this game measures up against games I'm playing now, and what it has to offer. One thing PSU and PSO alreadyhave going for them is the style. their Isn't any other game that can match its Sci-Fantasy style. as most other online adventure games sport the same thing of more traditional fantasy which gets monotonous.

All the pros in the world have already been said about this game, so you should still consider the cons since what we choose to play determines the future of the gaming industry. why do you think their is multiple Devil May Crys or Metal Gear Solids, they play ROUGHLY the same way and use alot of the same gameplay mechanics but throw a new twist and story and over all its MORE of the SAME.

PSU is essentially PSO but with an added race and less occupational restrictions in a new universe with a new story and some new or just revised trinkets. I am in no way trying to so that these are reasons not to play the game, cuz I DEFINATLY want to play this game VERY badly. I just can't ignore some of these issues tho since I run my whole life on a value system I develeped as I gre up and some of you definatly will develope ones for yourselves when you get older.

A friend of mine(who I met on PSO as is the majority of the peeps on my list) brought this point up when just asking me about the game.

Friend: When is PSU suppsoed to come out?

Me: Should be february

Friend: Ah, its pay to play right?

*this is something neither of us thought about until this point*

Me: Hm, It hasn't been anounced yet.

Friend: I see.. well the fee will more than likely determine if I play or not, I have enough games I pay for as it is and I want to spend cash I would use for new games on one game anymore.

Me: yeah same, we were able to splurge on PSO because those were the only games available to us at the time. They were vicious but, compared to the scope of other games, Paying for PSOv2 was definatly not worth it at all.

Friend: Yeah, all they did was release a 2nd version of the game with features they didn't have time to include in v1, primarily battle mode. If BA was in v1 no one would have bothered with v2, their may not have even been a v2 unless they expected people to pay for challenge mode, lobby soccer, new weapons and mags.

Oh, and ultimate mode with the lv 200 cap. Yeah, make ME pay YOU to make the game more of a chore to level now than a minuscule tedium, thats worth 5 dollars a month!

Me: Yeah these asthetical updates for making the same types of weapons we have now look different but stronger is a poor excuse of an update, It doesn't change the game at all. People that played PSU said that the game plays alot like PSO but with more to it. I was kinda relieved about that but now I realized that that sucks lol That means the game will look pretty new but feel like im playing roughly the same game. I wonder how much they expect us to pay for it.. That kinda ruins my outlook of the game now lol

Friend: Yeah the scope of PSU can't match the scope of [insert game that gives you more to do for your dollar] since it doesn't utilize a hard drive. Updates on PSU would be marginal at best, only serving the purpose of earning a weapon or mag that we otherwise wouldn't be able to obtain thru drops.

Me: Yeah, and to think I was SO close to playing blue burst after the beta. Although in my opinion itd be more worth it than PSU prolly since they can make some major updates with PC games. I gotta know the rest of the story cuz the investigations was compelling like ****.

Friend: Meh, all those new weapons that they are sporting are just the same weapons but with new looks and ****.

Me: Nuh uhn?

Friend: Yeah, youd be paying to play a game with a new area and some Sabers with different colors and **** lol

Me: hm.. Then I'll prolly just stick with Monster Hunter 2 then. Man.. If PSO had play mechanics like MH that obliterates grinding at the cost of making it quest based and give you more of a sense of occupational duty, that would ****ing own. Man PSU would fit well with that type of game mechanic, making doing missions alot more meaningful then doing them for the sake of doing them for a reward and to progress thru a less compelling story to give these quests depth.

Friend: When is MH2 coming out?

Me: prolly spring, I doubt it'll be as deep as PSU but the gameplay will be WAY better anyway. Hopefully that won't end up pay to play.. the JP versions were but not the US versions. AFter playing MH tho I don't think I can stand PSUs character animations, they look too.. artificial.. MH used motion capture for their character animations so the game felt more organic and your character felt alive. When I look at the PSU vids.. the characters only move their legs while they move forward.. looks nasty as ****.

Friend: Ah, so they will prolyl be out around the sme time I see.

I know I would play PSU alot longer, but thats only because of level grinding, not because I find the game so fun I can't put it down. Rather they put a goal to get to 200, therefore I can't stop playing till then, since playing the story mode alone will not make this game worth it at only 40 hours. I would rather have an offline only version where I can do all the repetative dungeon runs at my leisure and not feeling obligated to gain 20 levels a month to get my moneys worth. Not that playing the game online for that much means I am actually getting my moneys worth since I can only have 2 choices--pay or don't.

Friend: Yeah I work all day and only get home around midnight every night, I wouldn't really get my moneys worth. Its bad enough I bother to play [insert an MMO name here] since I only play from midnight-5am then I sleep so I can get up for work. >.<

Me: Yeah same with my classes, its funny how the path to designing my own games gets in the way of my gaming. >.<

Anyways I hope they will give you the option to have a limited account where you can play all you want, but are not allowed to recieve quest updates which would justify their payment scheme. or they should release an offline only version with no network access for some offline level grinding at my leisure, or atleast throw in a LAN option or somethn for the console version since anyone who gets the PC version will deffinatly go online.

If an Idea like that doesn't get utilized before I finally head a project I may implement them myself. XD Then again .hack//fragment is utilizing something like that, it pretty much relys on it. You host your server on your PC and you and 2 other peeps connect thru your PS2s. I think its only 3 players do do bandwidth constraints but playing with more players isn't a big deal, I'm sure itll work for this game since I think you can host your own events and such.

Friend: Oh yeah? sounds intriguing, I guess its free since you host on your own machine?

Me: Yeah basiclly, this'll be 2 online games worth getting over PSU as long as MH2 doesn't end up having a fee but I don't really see how it would since the first MH had a a scope no bigger than PSO. Granted MH Only lets players play with peeps from their own country unlike PSO but having that option isn't that big a deal since a game like MH can't afford lag.

So yeah if PSU doesn't meet our criteria we can just settle for other games since Sega doesn't take into account that the players have choices and don't have to settle for bull****. They are suppsoed to do what they can to get us to play their game, making them pay for a game they already own is just ludacrist. The least they could do is pass on the savings buy retailing it for like 20 dollars lol

My ass only bought FFXI because it dropped to 20 dollars, and that was worth it. Guldwars tho.. It was ok.. but not worth 58 dollars.. even if it is free, I quit that game after 2 weeks lol

Friend: I enjoyed it for a while, it was a good execution but, the over all game was just.. meh.

Me: Yeah they have the right idea, their is no reason why a game should be completely server side. Letting the towns serve as the lobbies to meet up with other players to start a party and then going on your personal adventures OFF the central server and just between the players clients. This way ****ers don't have to charge you for bandwidth constraints. We do NOT need to be able to see every other player in the zone for the sake of giving us the sense of a massive world.

Friend: When I beat all the missions on GW I was just like, "hm, now what?" their was no way I was gonna do that PvP ****.

Me: lol cooze, I told you it woudnlt be worth it http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Anyways you basiclly you hook up with 5 other players from the hub town out of hundreds of peeps. embark on your quests with your peeps in your own instance off the central server. No extra processing power for characters that aren't in your party. Everyone wins.

Hopefully if their is a PSU v2 they will utilize such features for the sake of taking hosted games off the central server so they won't have to charge us to enjoy the product we purchased. Cuz they basiclly ruined the replay value by putting a story mode which I doubt anyone would want to play over and over again if they don't have an ISP or don't want to pay the fee. Tho as far as I know their could be more to the story mode than I think, All I can think of is after you beat the game offline, you can continue to go around and kill ****.

I think I'll cut it here since I know this seems like just a giant rant or nonsense topic. This shows that I have alot on my mind and I look at things and take alot of considerations of various aspects of whatever I am thinking about. I put an equal amount of deliberation into my feelings towards PSU and alot of it is relative to info I don't even have yet, but I am awaiting answers for.

I expect most peeps to only consider:

graphics & visual style

gameplay

features

track record if it is't the first of the franchise as a template of what to expect from the new release.


Many of you can make your decisions about a game with these aspects, I used to when I was younger.

SOme of you, and more of you will later start to also consider:

if its a sequel, how much of it is the same, how much of it is new.

does it offer more of the same.

What other games of the same type I would I be able to choose over this one.

Is it betetr than other games of the same type I can choose from?

Do various aspects of the game justify themselves? or are they their just to add empty features that are easily ignorable and don't serve any real merit to add anything substancial to the game?

What kind of depth does it offer? does it offer you fruitless distractions to give you the illusion that the time you take to go through the game actually takes that long? (like level grinding http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)

Is it challenging? does it challenge your gameplay skills? (intelectual challenges are a plus) Does the game rely on sending a swarm of baddies to overwhelm you since they can't make the A.I. complex enough to actually beat you if they were to come alone? (like a bunch of one player action games do http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)

These are only a few things that someone like me and some of you may take into consideration. I especially have to think about stuff like this If I want to have a chance in the gaming industry. You have to know what to offer, what can be offered, what is already offered, what isn't offered. This doesn't apply to just this topic it can be applyed to anything.

I can pretty much only share my Ideas with those who share a similiar outlook as me, hense why I haven't posted here in like 2 years lol I would get frustrated at peeps who wouldn't pay attention to the point I was making rather than the things I was saying.

PSU will definatly be a good game but will it be great? WIll it be "gooder" or "greater" than other games of the same type?

silentbell
Nov 12, 2005, 08:47 AM
I can't believe I read all that...

This is difficult for me since I can't really relate to what you're saying...PSU will be my first online gaming experience, so I will not have any online games to compare it to...besides PSO which I only played offline on my Gamecube...

In terms of...

Fees
It won't matter to me...I can't wait to go online and play and to meet new people...I heard the Phantasy Star community is very friendly...this site is proof of that...I will gladly drop $20 a month since money isn't a matter to me...however, I understand if you are hesistant to pay if you think you will just get the same re-used gameplay with little improvements...for me though, it will be a new experience, so it makes sense that I'm excited...

Pros vs. Cons/New vs. Old
People who have played the demo say that it holds true to what PSO was in terms of fighting monsters and such...but with new weapons classes, a new race (beasts), adding status/element effects to weapons, more customizing options (including choice of voice type), dual wielding weapons, first person shooting, larger dungeons that change in enemy spawns, 15 bosses, more fluid animation, better graphics, an offline RPG experience with on online mode that is based on what the offline story had to offer, personal rooms for your characters, 3 large worlds with unique landscapes in each, ability to ride vehicles, Partner Machinery that can actually create items for you, and probably a lot more stuff we don't know about yet outweighs the same gameplay that is the core of the game...however, you never know if these new additions will actually impact the game positively...I'm predicting they will bring the overall game experience to a new level...

Depth
With the changes in the weapons and a new class, I think ST introduced a new level of strategy to the game...exploiting a monster's weakness by adding an attribute to a weapon is an example (which can certainly help in boss fights)...the offline mode with its traditional RPG story will also add to depth to the effect that it presents a solar system and actually tells the player what is happening in it...PSO just took the player and threw him/her into repeating the same dungeon layouts over and over again with an incredibly shallow story and explanation as to why you're even in the dungeon in the first place...at least now when you're killing monsters on a certain planet, you know what has happened there and I think that knowledge itself will make the player more involved with the game...

Comparison
I haven't played any other online RPGs so I can't really say which games offer the best for your investment in time and money...all I can say is that I hope the game does offer enough significant new things that it will truly be a different game from PSO...when I played Grand Theft Auto 3, I was amazed...then Vice City came out and it just felt like the same game just in a new setting...I certainly hope that isn't the case...from all the things ST added...I think the chances of that are low...http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif...but you never know...http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Maybe in the future, I will see you online and we could trade items...then we can talk about how great the game is and we can laugh at all the things we typed here in this thread...that will be the best case scenario...but since so many things are unclear right now, I guess all we can do is just wait until we experience the game for ourselves...

Rion772
Nov 12, 2005, 08:50 AM
On 2005-11-12 04:27, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
*snip long post*

I'm going to start at the bottom and go up, if you said what you meant then you wouldn't have those problems. MH wasn't even close to being as good as PSO, MH actual monster patterns were WAY TOO EASY to figure out, most people on there who played 200hours + like I did almost never take a hit from a Rathalos or Monoblos or what I was fighting. MH was way too short too, all you had to do was beat the quests and get some new armor and weapons. Some of that game was incredibly ridiculous too, like getting Rathalos plates...all I have to say is "WHAT THE F**K!". They were way to hard to get.

Also hackers/cheaters never admitted it. I found 2 guys once who had all of the Fatalis armor and the Eternal Annihilator. All of us MH player know that was impossible to have when online your level was only 17 (that's what Lv both of them were at). Of course PSU will give you a PSO feeling, it'll just have way more stuff and be way more fun. I got bored of MH after about 400 hours, I've played PSO for over 600 and still going on and off. I don't really understand what you were getting at with this post, whether or not it's to proove that you like PSU from our last little arguement between a lot of us against you in the "Monthly Fees" topic. Or you're trying to get everyone pumped for the game at the same time as bringing out the bad in PSU while explaining what to look for in the game.

I look for the same things when I'm looking at a game that comes out in a few months, if not, if I'm just going down the street to get something new that I havn't played yet then I get whatever looks good graphicly. Even with seeing the cons you brought up here I'm sure all of us are getting the game still, as am I. The cons to PSU aren't bad at all, it's a fairly large game that looks really good but has some silly, small cons that I deffinetly don't care about. It's hard to understand the point of this thread though, I don't quite understand it.

And yes I read your WHOLE post this time.

EDIT: When you are replying to a long post like this, quote only the parts that you wish to discuss. Otherwise, it causes unnecessary scrolling.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryna on 2005-11-12 09:27 ]</font>

silentbell
Nov 12, 2005, 08:58 AM
^I think it was a bad idea to quote him...it took me a while to scroll down to where you posted...lol...

I haven't read the argument that took place in the "monthly fee" thread...but I do feel he makes legitimate points...when a game you want so badly is about to come out...you eventually start worrying about the bad things in the game...that's why I posted a lot of positive aspects but only bringing up the negatives briefly...

Rion772
Nov 12, 2005, 09:06 AM
On 2005-11-12 05:58, silentbell wrote:
^I think it was a bad idea to quote him...it took me a while to scroll down to where you posted...lol...

I haven't read the argument that took place in the "monthly fee" thread...but I do feel he makes legitimate points...when a game you want so badly is about to come out...you eventually start worrying about the bad things in the game...that's why I posted a lot of positive aspects but only bringing up the negatives briefly...


Maybe I shouldn't have qouted the whole thing haha. He does bring up good points, the first time I came here and started posting in PSU General and since the first time I heard of it coming I was concerned about a lot of things, I still am. I really don't care about the negatives because there's so many positives that we know for sure that it makes any possible negative not even matter.

silentbell
Nov 12, 2005, 09:24 AM
^Exactly...there have been so many good things added to the game that it will be fantastic...I think Blackwaltz is just worrying about whether or not it will be worth the money to play...but right now...I feel there's no point in worrying when the game hasn't even come out yet...

PSU will be one amazing game...the proof will come when the game is released...

Rion772
Nov 12, 2005, 09:35 AM
On 2005-11-12 06:24, silentbell wrote:
^Exactly...there have been so many good things added to the game that it will be fantastic...I think Blackwaltz is just worrying about whether or not it will be worth the money to play...but right now...I feel there's no point in worrying when the game hasn't even come out yet...

PSU will be one amazing game...the proof will come when the game is released...


Except the proof is already here, the movies, the pictures, the ideas, the discussions, and the arguements. I know he's probably worrying about fees, I get that feeling because of the "Monthly Fees" topic. $15 isn't a lot for a game like this, it has quite a bit to offer already and we're still getting weekly updates to add onto our opinion of the game.

vox3om
Nov 12, 2005, 10:44 AM
Honestly...I've been considering paying again to play PSO. The best thing about PSO is its online community (communities like those on Guild Wars really suck). So for me, playing a game that is just like PSO but with more stuff and better graphics, thats fine. The only reason I haven't come back online with PSO is because of the lack of people still playing.

I believe that the only thing that any of us need to worry about right now is hacking. I imagine that for the first 6months or so you won't see ANY signs of hacking. Therefore who is bothered by the monthly fee until then. And even so, in a game like PSU, you join up with whoever you want. So we don't have to play with the hackers if we don't want to. Playing legit is a style to ones self. Just because it gets hacked doesn't mean that those who want to play legit can't! We don't have to trade for crazy hacked weapons. The majority of us know what those look like anyways...

Honestly I don't think there is anything to worry about right now. The graphics for this game look pretty sweet, we have appartments, we have new looking weapons, more places to cover, more monsters, more people, and you know what? more fun than any of the other online communities ever have.

F-o-x
Nov 12, 2005, 11:54 AM
I was going to post something like this in the monthly fees thread but then it was locked up so I couldn't.

PSU is definatly going to be worth the monthly fee, for me at least. Even if this game was $20 per month, based on how much I will play the game per month I would get many MANY more hours out of it than any other game I would use my money on. I worked out how much money I spent on PSO with fees and actual game purchases (I'm not going to post it all here I'll just give you the quick version) and even if I would have used my PSO fee money from v2 onwards on other games (for the sake of argument I made them all RPGs and assumed that I'd get around 70 hours out of each) I would NOT have gotten nearly as much playtime as I did with PSO v2-Ep1&2.

When I read your post I also saw that gameplay was an issue and you were saying PSU would be the same as PSO just with a graphic overhaul and some other additions.

I think if the gameplay isn't broken why fix it? Why do you say that the combat playing out similaly to PSO is a bad thing? They have added dual weilding and strafing as well as first person shooting, so while the combat will be inherently the same there are enough new things there to spice it up.

The gameplay is what makes a lot of gamers come back for more of the game. If a developer were to totally rework the gameplay in a sequal for instance, they would be alienating thier audience.

Zarcon
Nov 12, 2005, 12:20 PM
Well, if you don't want to pay for the online portion you can only rate the game as a stand alone offline RPG.
Is the 40 hour offline RPG worth the initial cost compared to other offline RPGs?
Maybe, if it costs about the same as other RPGs and plays well.

It isn't fair to say they're forcing you to pay to play. They're not, you can buy the game as if you were buying any other RPG. Since this is action based 40 hours is a good chunk of time. You KNOW that turn-based RPGs only have long play times because it takes forever to go through battles especially ones with random battles.

You can think of it this way, the game is a standalone RPG with (hopefully) about the same cost as other RPGs out there with the OPTION of paying to go online with others.

You can't compare this with Guildwars since that game doesn't give you a standalone 40 hour RPG on top of the online game. You might be able to compare it to Diablo but honestly, that game didn't provide much on the story end of things.

What it all comes down to is how you choose to percieve the game. If you think you're buying an ORPG then yea, it'll seem like you're getting ripped off. If you think you're buying an RPG with extras that you can choose to pay monthly for then you'll see the game in a much better light.

[EDIT]

And consider this, even if it's [insert price of average RPG] a month and you choose to play for fun online for 40 hours a month (1.5 hours a day) it's already worth your money. How many RPG games can you say you play more then 2 or 3 times?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarcon on 2005-11-12 09:24 ]</font>

Zaphile
Nov 12, 2005, 12:28 PM
On 2005-11-12 08:54, F-o-x wrote:
< snip >
When I read your post I also saw that gameplay was an issue and you were saying PSU would be the same as PSO just with a graphic overhaul and some other additions.

I think if the gameplay isn't broken why fix it? Why do you say that the combat playing out similaly to PSO is a bad thing? They have added dual weilding and strafing as well as first person shooting, so while the combat will be inherently the same there are enough new things there to spice it up.

The gameplay is what makes a lot of gamers come back for more of the game. If a developer were to totally rework the gameplay in a sequal for instance, they would be alienating thier audience.


I got the same impression. If they were to totally change the battle system ( Think Ep3... Turned people off because it was a turned-base card game.. Which actually turned out to be amazingly fun, but it turned most people off and people never gave it a chance. Anyway..), PSU would have less of that PSO charm. I think it's rather pessimistic to think of sequals, updates, etc. as "the same game with more monsters and levels."

FrozenFlame41
Nov 12, 2005, 01:51 PM
the thing is I have barely played PSO, I just beat offline on normal difficulty, and never played it online, so PSU will be new to me. It may not use the H.D.D. but it can still have extra hidden stuff like quests, levels, weapons, and more. Companies only spread out releasing all there is so, the vet players don't get bored. They just need to unlock it later on. And if it gets more popular, do what FFXI did and release a new expansion. Even FFXI can't release a new expansion through the H.D.D. they need a separate disc.

PSU has the potential to be big, but who knows it may turn out to be "just another pso game" or be the gamebreaker in the series and skyrocket in popularity, I'm ready to spend a bit of time playing the game to have fun whether it blows away my expectations, or undercuts them a little

Kupi
Nov 12, 2005, 01:56 PM
Well, in all fairness, everything from Version 2 on the Dreamcast on was, essentially, the same game. They all played darn near identically. Same control scheme, same levels (Episodes 2 and 4 added new ones, of course, but the old ones were still available), same weapons (again, barring expansions). PSU, on the other hand, looks to be, while not completely new, at least different enough to be called a true sequel, and a game of its own.

...sorry, I really don't know where I was going with that. ^_^()

F-o-x
Nov 12, 2005, 02:32 PM
And consider this, even if it's [insert price of average RPG] a month and you choose to play for fun online for 40 hours a month (1.5 hours a day) it's already worth your money. How many RPG games can you say you play more then 2 or 3 times?


This is exactly what I'm saying in the first part of my post in a nutshell. I even forgot to add that I had factored in playing the normal RPGs I hypothetically bought with my PSO game and fee money a second time (because I sometimes do this with my RPGs a while after I finish them) and PSO still came out on top in playtime.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-o-x on 2005-11-13 20:44 ]</font>

Zarcon
Nov 12, 2005, 03:31 PM
Exactly F-o-x, unless you like buying a new RPG every single month.

You can't say "Oh, if the online fee is $15/month then in 4 months I could've bought another RPG" because if you played for those months for only 1.5 hours a day for the sake of fun you'd have clocked in 4 RPGs worth of time. If you saved up and bought another RPG then you'd only be playing it for at most a month.

You have to think of this as a standalone RPG with online extras you pay for. You can't think of it as a MMORPG where you have no choice but to play and you can't think of it as a standalone RPG where they're forcing you to pay per month. If you must compare the game with another then compare it on fair grounds. Compare it to another game that provides a full RPG experience on top of the online play, not one or the other like Guild Wars (Only online) or Diablo (Very weak RPG elements).

silentbell
Nov 12, 2005, 11:23 PM
^Heh...I guess I never really thought about it that way...maybe that was the reason the game is called Phantasy Star Universe and not Phantasy Star Online 2...it's going back to the traditional offline RPG with an option to play online...

I'm officially blown away with this thought...

Blackwaltz-R
Nov 13, 2005, 01:12 AM
I make refferences to GW and MH because I feel that they both offer aspects to gaming that should become the norm. GW with its methods for managing its online service without charging since the exploration takes place client side, not on the main server, only the towns take place on the main server for meeting up with other players. MH offers gameplay where your personal skills alone determine how you progress through the game instead of using a level grinding system that makes pgression alot easier since it take effortless to beat a game when you grind your level http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

WHen I played these games the ONE thiong that was always on my mind is how much PSO (and all other action adventure games) were to shamelessly bite these methods lol Peeps who played MH would more than likely agree than mastering the controls of MH was around 80-90% of the game lol I give props to MH because its style makes the game remain tough (online atleast) but games like PSO that sport level grinding only risk making the game perpetually easier. Once you hit around lv130 their is no real point in continuing other than to collect rares. The game then turns into a pay to play scavenger hunt.

I enjoyed PSO more when the level cap was 100, making it 200 only turned the game into a test of enduring the monotony. a lv150 cap would have been more tolerable. When eps1&2 launched me and a friend of mine were racing to be the highest lv FOs. After a week I hit 136 and got bored but he kept going and got around 150 then corrupted lol He started over around 4 or 5 times and corrupted each time. It was a crucial blow, he was the highest lv FO and then just got the smack down lol

Eps3 tho was something I could appreciate being developed. Tho took the game in a new direction but peeps hated on it because they expected it to be a new version to migrate to. It was meant to be another option not a replacement, for peeps like me who got sick of the hack and slash and wanted tot ake a break from it. It was a good strategy for them to give us a reaosn to take a break from one styl of play so that it doesn't drive people to quit the game over-all if they got bored of it.

I hope they don't abandon the card battle style tho, The only problem with eps3 was that they didn't bother to update the rules like a genuine TCG. Instead they kept tweaking the cards which wasn't really neccesary, atleast NOT before tweaking the rules first. The default rules only advocated opertunistic decks rather than startegic ones. Tho its funny that I'm asking peeps to think over their decisions on PSU yet eps3 died because it tried to do something different. PSU would more than likely cater to those who didn't like eps3 but thats ST's fault for not managing it better :/

Shade-
Nov 13, 2005, 02:40 AM
If they released another version of PSO with an overhauled graphics engine, tweeked the origional gameplay and added some new elements, as well as expanded the world and put in more levels, added more items and character customization, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. OH. WAIT. They are, that's what PSU is. That's what they are going for. It IS essentially PSO, which is a goooood thing. Granted, if they rereleased PSO now, it wouldn't sell, because we already have the exact same game. So they added new stuff. Thankfully, enough stuff to call it (basicly) PSO2 (refering to online part, offline more blahblahblah) instead of PSO v5.

As it is turning out to be, I'll gladly throw down $10 a month if they can keep it hack-free and throw us a special quest every now and then. Any more than that and it will start to bug me, but even $15 I still wont hesitate. If it's over $15 they are out of thier ****ing minds though. that's just stupid.

As for the forced grinding view, I have a totally different view. If you want to talk about forced grinding, play FFXI, I've come to the conclusion that the game in general sucks. Literally the only reason I kept playing was because of my Linkshell. The grinding in FFXI is multipule levels of hell worse than PSO because FFXI is a pain in the ass to play. The game is just not fun and I finally forced myself to say goodbye and quit. PSO on the other hand, is the only MM/ORPG that I have actually found FUN to play. It's FUN running through the same dungeons killing the same enemies hundreds of times with other adventurers. I dont know how they did it, but it's fun. (disclaimer: If you liked FFXI's gameplay, and not PSOs, you are on the wrong fourm, and have bad taste in games, jk, I just hated it)
But now, there are tons more maps and more randomization, basicly, more of everything. Seriously the only things I can think of that I think they should add that they haven't already confirmed yet is adding a jump (will probably never happen) and adding SOME form of guild/clan/team system.

P.S. its late and I didn't proffread, sorry if I dont make sense. I'll try to fix it tomorrow if it's really bad.

F-o-x
Nov 13, 2005, 06:09 AM
Nah I understood it and it related to everything http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I just wanna second what Shade said... I have no idea how they did it either with PSO but whatever it is its kept me coming back for over 3 years and pretty much forced me to log thousands of hours.

In regards to FFXI... When I think back on that game I now realize that 60% of my time I was playing that game felt like work. I have no idea why I kept logging on for the few months that I did to do work but I now realize that it was pretty much a waste of time. I'm playing PSO BB right now for just the free 2 weeks, and the thing is... I don't care about my levels and character progress. I know I'm going to quit before they charge me but the thing is I'm having FUN with it. PSO is truly an amazing game, and I'm looking forward to more of the same things that made PSO great.

Rion772
Nov 13, 2005, 07:10 PM
Yeah some MMO's and RPG's and MMORPG's can feel like a lot of work. I just started playing WoW and it's really fun, a lot of work but much fun. I just want PSU to come out already.

Blackwaltz-R
Nov 13, 2005, 08:09 PM
The only reason I was able to tolerate FFXI was because the retail price dropepd to 20 dollars lol I actually found the tedium of the game pretty fun tho, since it was just the same old endless grinding to make the game more of a cinch. Other online games felt like they were meant for 5 year olds compared to FFXI which you not only had work very hard, but you also had to thrive by keeping up with the economy. PSOs ecomony was very weak, you did very little business with other players other than trading weapons.

I expect the same thing from PSU but their was a tidbit that caught my fancy about being able to do some type of item creation offline to later sell or trade online. Thats another thing I expect from online games is having the sense of being able to do mroe than be a Hunter who goes out and kills things for the sake of prgression. in FFXI you didn't have to settle for level grinding really, you could be a crafter which is more competative and rewarding. If you were to make a ton of cash after getting alot of your crafting skills up you can create your own gear.

I recall that you could also give your partner robot items and it would output other items which is what they may have been origionally reffering to. I'm sure we would all enjoy this game and thats not what I'm questioning at all. My concerns are whther the level of enjoyment is equivalent to what it will cost us. I would think that killing things over and over wouldn;t be worth anything anymore by now unless their were other ways to waste your time like what I mentioned above.

Even tho the game lets you interact with more players, It doesn't seem like their will be that much of an increase of how you interact with them. I mean this is one of their selling points for the game but I can't discern anything new from this tho they may not have released anymore info yet, lets hope thats the case. Being able to emote in front of 40 or so people instead of 20 doesn't seem like much of an interactive improvement but thats just me.

yeah the custimizations will be deep, but will that change or diversify how we play the game?

yeah theirs 3 planets to explore, but will that change or diversify how we play the game?

only the locations and enemies

yeah you can play with 6 players, but will that change or diversify how we play the game?

more players=less drops for individual players.

will weekly quests change or diversify how we play the game?

It could but if we look back at PSO any changes in gameplay usually meant that combat was removed altogether for an interactive play mechanic.

One of the main things people go for in this game is that they will minimize cheating. Thats pretty much all they can do, their will still be more cheating As long as they are pretty discrete and moderate about it they will still take place. All ST can do is prevent the existing methods of cheating, their will always be new ways to cheat but yeah they should atleast be payed for their efforts in atleast TRYING to stop them.

Instead of random people joining a game just to drop off weapons, they could easily just drop it during a run and drop it when no one is paying attention or confident that cheating isn't an issue on PSU and lets you happlessly pick it up as if were a legitimate drop. and act all jealous of you to complete the delusion.

Theirs still some things we don't know about the more important aspects tho and I'm still intently monitoring updates, cuz as far as I can tell I still may get this game anyway since I focused alot on these issues and they don't seem that important anymore lmao

Rion772
Nov 13, 2005, 08:24 PM
On 2005-11-13 17:09, Blackwaltz-R wrote:
The only reason I was able to tolerate FFXI was because the retail price dropepd to 20 dollars lol I actually found the tedium of the game pretty fun tho, since it was just the same old endless grinding to make the game more of a cinch. Other online games felt like they were meant for 5 year olds compared to FFXI which you not only had work very hard, but you also had to thrive by keeping up with the economy. PSOs ecomony was very weak, you did very little business with other players other than trading weapons.

I expect the same thing from PSU but their was a tidbit that caught my fancy about being able to do some type of item creation offline to later sell or trade online. Thats another thing I expect from online games is having the sense of being able to do mroe than be a Hunter who goes out and kills things for the sake of prgression. in FFXI you didn't have to settle for level grinding really, you could be a crafter which is more competative and rewarding. If you were to make a ton of cash after getting alot of your crafting skills up you can create your own gear.

I recall that you could also give your partner robot items and it would output other items which is what they may have been origionally reffering to. I'm sure we would all enjoy this game and thats not what I'm questioning at all. My concerns are whther the level of enjoyment is equivalent to what it will cost us. I would think that killing things over and over wouldn;t be worth anything anymore by now unless their were other ways to waste your time like what I mentioned above.

Even tho the game lets you interact with more players, It doesn't seem like their will be that much of an increase of how you interact with them. I mean this is one of their selling points for the game but I can't discern anything new from this tho they may not have released anymore info yet, lets hope thats the case. Being able to emote in front of 40 or so people instead of 20 doesn't seem like much of an interactive improvement but thats just me.

yeah the custimizations will be deep, but will that change or diversify how we play the game?

yeah theirs 3 planets to explore, but will that change or diversify how we play the game?

only the locations and enemies

yeah you can play with 6 players, but will that change or diversify how we play the game?

more players=less drops for individual players.

will weekly quests change or diversify how we play the game?

It could but if we look back at PSO any changes in gameplay usually meant that combat was removed altogether for an interactive play mechanic.

One of the main things people go for in this game is that they will minimize cheating. Thats pretty much all they can do, their will still be more cheating As long as they are pretty discrete and moderate about it they will still take place. All ST can do is prevent the existing methods of cheating, their will always be new ways to cheat but yeah they should atleast be payed for their efforts in atleast TRYING to stop them.

Instead of random people joining a game just to drop off weapons, they could easily just drop it during a run and drop it when no one is paying attention or confident that cheating isn't an issue on PSU and lets you happlessly pick it up as if were a legitimate drop. and act all jealous of you to complete the delusion.

Theirs still some things we don't know about the more important aspects tho and I'm still intently monitoring updates, cuz as far as I can tell I still may get this game anyway since I focused alot on these issues and they don't seem that important anymore lmao


You make some very fine points, although your posts are ridiculously long sometimes...like the first one on this topic so they take awhile to read. I have to say I'm pretty sure ST isn't going to make online mode easy, I'm truly expecting that we will have to all work together with our teams hopefully because the enemies will be ridiculously hard. I really hope that's the case and if it were it would make everyone HAVE to work together to kill.

If you havn't yet actually joined a team to play PSU with PM me and let me know if you want to play PSU with me and my team, they're all pretty nice and cool.

F-o-x
Nov 13, 2005, 08:41 PM
In response to Blackwaltz:

You ask near the end of that post if certain new aspects will change or diversify how we play the game. The thing is I for one (and the majority of old PSO fans I'd assume) don't want them to change anything about the core gameplay, and thankfully they haven't, they've just added to it. I'm not saying change is a bad thing but if they were to change the very thing most players do 80%-90% of the time while playing they may scare off thier fanbase (myself included).

About your more players=less drops point I'll use myself on PSOBB as an example. I started the game a few days ago and right now I'm @lv44(HUmar) with these main weapons: Varista,Yamato,Nice Shot(Joke partisan-weapon they give you for starting, Attack power is pretty good),DB's Saber and a pair of Repeaters.

Pretty common crappy rares right?(Save the repeaters which, ironically isn't a rare and is pretty much the most powerful thing I have) These things are lethal weapons in my hands http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif So what I'm saying is if we raise our characters correctly even common crappy drops that we'll end up having lots of will be useful.

I hope you decide to get the game http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-o-x on 2005-11-13 17:44 ]</font>

Blackwaltz-R
Nov 13, 2005, 10:51 PM
Yeah my posts tend to be long because I try to avoid making general statements since they tend to be ambiguis. I try to answer any questions that are likely to arise as not to flood the thread. This way people can just post how they feel about my statements rather than wonder where I am coming from.

generalizing and ambiguity can lead to misunderstandings which in turn can lead to flaming and bashing.

Anyways if/when I get PSU me and a friend will be racing each other in levels like we did on eps1&2 so I prolly won't play with other peeps right away but I will deffinatly later on.

My issue with playing with more peeps is that ares are rare and playing with other peeps will make them more rare since it is basiclly first come first serve for grabs. I don't have a problem with the more common high ranked weapons. One of my issues with level grinding is how you pretty much have to upgrade weapons later every so often making the aquisition of new weapons convoluted. The only reason we want so may new weapons is because half of them become obsolete after the first 100 levels. If the game were skill based like MH you could hang on to weapons alot longer if not permanently.

Yeah you could still hang onto weapons at high levels and still do some damage but eh, thats only a display of power not skill. This could be remedied if they let you grind weapons high enough to moderatly rival some of the more higher ranked weapons. I held 5 star weapons in high regard, shot series the most since the are pretty under-rated. Beserk Arms ****ing ownz coupled with Gush Arms, Blizzard, Hold, and Chaos shots owned too. To me RAs are the 2nd most powerful class in the game after FOs http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

In eps1&2 they reduced Soul Eaters max grind to 9, lowering the incentive to get. A maxed ground Beserk Gungnir deals more damage than SE and doesn't drain your health as you walk. the only reason to still get one is because scythes are just tight.. and it turns a long repetative process into a short one since you will get one WAY sooner than BG.

One last I have on my mind is if managing partner robots will be similar to raising mags since that was one of my favorties aspects of PSO. Raising the perfect mag for a particular race and class is an art in itself.

Zarode
Nov 13, 2005, 10:58 PM
Alright, I'm going to skip everything everyone has said, because that is a ton of reading.

I will get you on one point. Mario 1 plays a lot like Mario 2. Mario 2 plays a lot like Mario 3. Mario 1 plays a lot like Mario 3. Hm, seems they added new things, fixed somethings, etc. etc...

Sonic 1 to Sonic 2, Sonic 2 to Sonic 3.

I could list a whole bunch of games that PLAY ALMOST LIE THEIR PREVIOUS VERSION, BUT THAT MIGHT HURT YOUR POOR OPINION.

Dude, seriously. Think about it.

That's all I got to say. Don't anyone flame me for this, because that is what the PM system is for. You'll just spam up the lovely topic about a bunch of good points. :]

http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif Typoes http://pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarode on 2005-11-13 20:07 ]</font>