TOP CONSOLE GAMES OF ALL TIME (RPG help)

[Skorpius]

Right now, I'm working to compile a list of console games of all time, and I'm currently looking at the RPG genre. I'm judging games by revolutionary impact on the respective genre, or on the world of video games in generall (such as Goldeneye and Super Mario Bros., respectively).

So far, I have these ideas:

Pokemon Red/Blue
This game not only gave those who hadn't played any RPG before a good step into the genre, but also successfully introduced a different element in the party system used in RPGs. The first RPG to actually use the enemies as party members, all of them, and the ability to select from over 150 of them.

And then I'm split between Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Phantasy Star as the face that started console RPG.

PSO is obviously on my mind as a Multiplayer Online RPG (luckily this is only for consoles, since Diablo 2 is basically the launch of the action tangent of RPG's and would have been considered instead)

Since I don't have much experience in console RPG's, I'm asking for input for any other RPG's that have influenced the face of the genre. This doesn't have to excliude any newear games, either. Just remember, before suggesting Final Fantasy 7, make sure you have back-up if you claim the game was as revolutionary to RPG's as Goldeneye was FPS's. ;p



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2006-02-19 04:00 ]</font>

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

I'd figure Final Fantasy 3 for SNES is a very good bet.
(In Japan its known as their 6 I know nerdy nerdo's almost pouncing on me right after I said 3, not 6)

The active time battle system wasn't entirely new but it was majorly improved upon to make battle less of a point and click race and more of a strategy-thinking man's fight.

Dozens of party members with their own respective storylines and cross over stories made the game such an epic.

They also had unique movesets which incorporated different aspects into the ATB system as well.

- Cyan would hold his skill until the bar reached a desired level on the bar 1-8 for unleashing different attacks
- Sabin could do button combinations a la Street Fighter after selecting his unique skill action in the menu
- Anyone could summon an Esper/summon during a turn, among many other unique moves.

Magic was learned by equipping the Espers which were very much a part of the story and were essential to finishing the game. The rarer the Esper you found in the world (on perhaps a sidequest), the rarer and more useful the magic skills that Esper had for you to learn.

The grand scale was added through an amazing soundtrack for a 16 bit cart game. I can remember many of the tunes off the top of my head and thankfully have that FF:Anthology PS1 CD on hand to listen to, so I'm not completely at a loss when it comes to tracking that music down.

Moogle town, a betting/battling colisseum, airships that held your whole crew(and a casino to boot!), the end of the world as they knew it- completely changing the areas you could explore, being stranded on an island after the collapse of the world, that ninja guy Shadow, 100's of different hand drawn monsters to fight throughout the game, etc. etc. etc.

I could go on and on.

Its made such a huge impact on my life.

My older brother plopped down a huge $70 + tax on this badboy back in 1994. Think of how much $70 was back then($200 after inflation? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif), and even now not seeing many games ever go near a $70 mark, for just one game.

ALL WORTH IT.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HAYABUSA-FMW- on 2006-02-19 05:14 ]</font>

[KodiaX987]

I mention PSO's different incarnations (save for Episode 3) because it used an active Zelda-64-esque gameplay style rather than the traditional point-and-click. That alone was enough to keep my addiction up, since my fingers were always busy. The combo system was simple and yet provided some depth to the game since it was possible to avoid enemy attacks altogether rather than making battles nothing more than a fight of attrition to see who has the most health potions in his inventory. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Daikarin]

- Final Fantasy VI had an impact, altough not as overwhelming as the game itself. The story, the 2D graphics, and especially the characters and their abilities;
- The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Altough N64 wasn't the most sucessful machine, the game was considered "almost perfect" in every aspect, and still is looked up to now, despite its age. It had a battle system similar to PSO, altough a bit better in some aspects;
- If Shenmue can be considered a RPG instead of what SEGA calls a "FREE", then it was also awesome;
- Grandia II was excellent. Despite not as popular as Final Fantasy series, it had one of the best battle systems around, and a lot more that made it amazing;
- Skies of Arcadia. Great plot, a great world despite the random-battle system. It gave Dreamcast owners a great RPG experience;

Some of these aren't well known, but they have been revolutionary in their own ways, in terms of what makes those games unique (like Grandia's battle system, Shenmue's realistic real-time simulation and graphics, etc).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Daikarin on 2006-02-19 09:47 ]</font>

[darthsaber9x9]

I'm gonna say the Saturn's 2 RPG heavyweights Panzer Dragoon Saga and Shining Force III.

The styling of PDS was so unique and complete and the whole morhping dragon thing and the battle mechanics are so unlike anything i've seen.

Shining Force III was just great.

Oh and i'm rather partial to FF VII, the story really kept me guessing in places.

[DizzyDi]

On 2006-02-19 03:59, Skorpius wrote:


PSO is obviously on my mind as a Multiplayer Online RPG (luckily this is only for consoles, since Diablo 2 is basically the launch of the action tangent of RPG's and would have been considered instead)


[ This Message was edited by: Skorpius on 2006-02-19 04:00 ]</font>


Well isn't Zelda an action RPG?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DizzyDi on 2006-02-19 11:22 ]</font>

[Dek]

Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars

Many people would say that Paper Mario or Mario and Luigi were alsome RPG/RPG-based games. However, I have a feeling that if it wasn't for Super Mario RPG, neither of the future titles (or the idea of Mario in an RPG) would exist...

SMRPG had a RPG engine similar to that of Final Fantasy (of course, Nintendo and SquareSoft worked on it together) in the sense that you picked the action for each of your 3 characters (attack, special, item, defend), let your opponent attack, rinse, and repeat.

Like many other RPGs, there are lots of things to do and secrets to unlock (Samus, Link, and Cluex, for example).

[ABDUR101]

"Shadowrun" for the Genesis.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-02-19 03:59, Skorpius wrote:
And then I'm split between Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Phantasy Star as the face that started console RPG.

Phantasy Star opened up the market for console RPGs in the United States. It was the first of its kind in this country and many others. The first in Japan, however, was Dragon Quest, which, due to Phantasy Star's success here, was later brought to the US as Dragon Warrior.


Since I don't have much experience in console RPG's, I'm asking for input for any other RPG's that have influenced the face of the genre. This doesn't have to excliude any newear games, either. Just remember, before suggesting Final Fantasy 7, make sure you have back-up if you claim the game was as revolutionary to RPG's as Goldeneye was FPS's. ;p


I honestly don't know what people see in Goldeneye. I wasn't terribly impressed with it when it was new, and I'm particularly unimpressed with it now (I'm to the point of being annoyed with it, in fact). I'd say that if there was ever a game that really brought attention to console FPS's, then it was Halo, but on the other hand, I can only conclude that FPS just isn't a genre that works well on a console; in much the same way that RTS, Baldur's Gate-style RPG and a Diablo-style Action RPG just don't work right on a console. Some formats just work better on a computer than on a console, just as other formats work better on a console than on a computer (such as PSO, for example-- perfect for a console, but a little unnatural on a computer).

Final Fantasy 7, though, I can back up. I realize that you're quick to argue against Final Fantasy 7 because it has a vast sea of fan boys, eager to ignorantly scream its praises.

I suggest to you, though, that this is precisely the reason why it was very much a revolutionary game for the genre. No matter how you want to look at it, you cannot deny (and retain your dignity) that Final Fantasy 7 is single-handedly responsible for making the RPG genre popular. How many of us would be prone to playing RPGs today, if it hadn't been for Final Fantasy 7 paving the way? Sure, maybe it cursed us to decades of Clouds, outnumbered by Sephiroths in our MMOs, but nevertheless, it still deserves the credit it has earned.

It was the first RPG to feature animated cutscenes, and perhaps more importantly, that many animated cutscenes. In this, it brought the experience of the game to a whole new level. After just a taste, you were playing the game just to see the cutscenes.

Add in with that, an unparalleled quality of gameplay (to this day, there is not another console RPG that I've enjoyed digging the secrets out of so thoroughly), and you've got an instant classic. I don't see how there can be any arguing against this. At the time of its release, the game simply didn't have any bad points.

[Skorpius]

On 2006-02-19 12:46, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
I honestly don't know what people see in Goldeneye.

The game was a complete twist on FPS's. Most FPS's up to then were all about getting to the end goal while shooting hordes of enemies. Goldeneye provided a complete and different strategy to the entire game by introducing stealth and objectives that ranged from "flip this switch" to "don't let this person die". Since then, there have baan many subsequent FPS's that include these elements, thanks to Goldeneye.

Also, thanks for the informing post.

[Charmander02]

Is Super Smash Bros Melee and RPG?

Probably not but its still an awsome game.

[Sgt_Shligger]

What about Super Mario 64? It was the first game of its kind with that sort of 3D world. I'm not sure about why it was so dynamic besides the fact it was the first game to use a world map in complete 3D (i think.)

[KodiaX987]

There's just one problem: Mario 64 wasn't an RPG. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Tomoki]

Mother/Earthbound/1/2/3 may not be as popular as some of the games mentioned, but its darn good in its own right http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Eihwaz]

I second the mention of Earthbound. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_yes.gif

And if you're going to talk about Pokemon, you might as well mention Pokemon Gold/Silver. They remain THE BEST handheld Pokemon games to date, IMO. They took all the best stuff from R/B/Y, and added tons of cool new material.

[Atayin]

Here's my attempt at an unbiased opinion.

The first Final Fantasy games succeeded in popularizing the RPG in the United States to a limited extent where other games (such as Dragon Quest and Phantasy Star) had failed. I'm not choosing favorites, here. I'm only stating the obvious. When RPGs caught on in this country, it turned into big(er) fat(er) money.

Final Fantasy 7 is definately not my favorite Final Fantasy.. but that doesn't matter. Final Fantasy 7 is extremely significant because of the way it completely revolutionized the way games were made and produced. It was advertised along the lines as "The most epic motion event of the year. Unfortunately, however.. this story will never be in theaters"

As a result of how successful an impact it made, not only RPGs but games in general began to focus much more on cinematic and dramatic presentation, sometimes at the cost of actual depth and gameplay quality. That's not to say that lack of the afformentioned ever stopped those titles from selling. If you were to ask me, I would have to very reluctantly admit that the Final Fantasy series has been the most influential of all RPGs... even though IT was influenced by so many other much better games.

Oh, and I'm not a fanboy. I don't even own a single FF game. I liked Final Fantasy 6/3 a lot and 7 was pretty good, but I never felt the need to purchase either. Regardless.. I'm forced to acknowledge how I've seen the series change RPGs and set new standards- some of which I wish had never been set.


As far as the most influential console games ever (non-RPG) go.. I would have to say, just about anything made by Shigeru Miyamoto who is (not so unbiased, here)awesome. Oh... and Tetris, too. Donkey Kong, Zelda and Mario started games down a road that made them more immersive then ever before. Zelda was a new take on a classic form of the Video Game, pretty much started by ADVENTURE for Atari. All 3 series broke grounds and paved the way to new horizons.. Mario 64 doesn't get nearly enough credit, either. It allowed players more freedom then ever before. And don't even get me started on Zelda 64.

Although the Nintendo mascots may not be as popularly acknowledged among gamers as characters with shotguns, booze, footballs, hoes or cars... they STILL are singlehandedly responsible for games going into the direction that they've led to today and coming out of an era where most were saying that video games would die out..... which was over 20 years ago. The RPGs we have today probably wouldn't be here if not for that.





EDIT: OH, and I have to mention Earthbound.. it may not have had a big impact, but it remains my favorite game of all time down to this very day.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Atayin on 2006-02-19 19:14 ]</font>

[Kent]

Zelda games are not technically RPGs. They fall into the same category as games like Prince of Persia; Adventure. And speaking of technicalities... The GB/GBC/GBA Pokemon games aren't technically console games at all. >_>

I've never played Shining Force III (sadly...), but I have played the other two great RPGs on the Saturn; Panzer Dragoon Saga and Shining the Holy Ark. Looking back, I've yet to see a game that brought back the feel of Shining the Holy Ark... The first-person viewpoint, in full 3D (except for Camelot's signature pre-rendered characters) was just so incredibly immersive for its time. Games like the original Phantasy Star and Shining in the Darkness (the first game in the Shining series) have that same viewpoint and playstyle (to an extent), but aren't as immersive.

Panzer Dragoon Saga, on the other hand, just opened up a completely different style of RPG gameplay, and still stands out as a landmark, to those that have played it, as one of the more innovative RPGs ever created. Basically, it stuck a boot up the ass of FF's ATB system, and customized it to incorporate not only real-time battles, but also manual dodging, to not only avoid attacks, but tactically place yourself at an advantage in battle, and all kinds of unique abilities (Berserker Rage > 1000 Needles, any day).

Of course... Final Fantasy VII also deserves more than a mention, not just for being the game to take RPGs into the mainstream, but also introducing the Materia system and Limit Breaks into the genre. More and more RPGs are adopting systems to customize your characters, to an extent, and desperation attacks (though these have been seen before, again, this brought them into the mainstream, and is the most prevalent). Not to mention, of course, that FFVII still has a much deeper story than most current RPGs to date, and still has people arguing over the minute details of it.

[OdinTyler]

I wish Id seen this topic sooner. OK, heres my thoughts on revolutionary RPGs (in no particular order):

1. Phantasy Star 1 - First 4 meg game ever & was way ahead of its time both in technology & defining what an epic RPG should be.
2. Dragon Warrior - Dragon Quest has pretty much always been the #1 RPG series in Japan & just the fact that its still existent today shows that many games have been inspired from this series.
3. 7th Saga - A game where you choose characters to join your group from among a group of 7 & decisions were critical. If you killed 1 of the other 7, they STAYED dead. There was no resurrecting them.
4. Secret of Mana - This game pretty much defined the action RPG genre.
5. Final Fantasy II (IV in Japan). The FF games before this (going on my impression of the 1st game) wasnt that great. This helped make the series what it is today.
6. Final Fantasy V - Introduced the job system that has become quite popular.
7. Shining Force - Blending strategy & RPG elements allow you to have a small army at your command without sacrificing the key element of an RPG, that being the story.
8. Shadowrun (specifically the SNES version) - Who knew a cyberpunk game could work? Not too futuristic to where you could believe that some of that stuff could happen in the near future.
9. Pokemon - It could be considered a console as it eventually did come to console systems. Not only did it spawn a huge following, it lead to the whole capture a creature & use it to aid you concept. Tho the series ended up being geared towards young childen, the original Red & Blue games were darker. Team Rocket (as a whole, not just the famous trio) didnt always capture Pokemon. They were also known to have killed some Pokemon. If this werent changed, it couldve become quite the cult RPG series instead of the mass media frenzy it became.

Its late so I cant think of anymore right now. Thats what I came up with off the top of my head. As for some other games mentioned here:

1. I agree, Zelda is technically an adventure series, not an RPG.
2. Some have considered Goldeneye an RPG & Idk why. Its clearly a shooter, not an RPG.
3. I havent played Super Mario RPG so I cant make a big deal about it. I just dont know if Id buy Mario in an RPG anymore than Id wanna necessarily see Sonic in one (not counting his cameo in PSO).

On a sidenote, can we write to SNK & demand they release the Samurai Shodown RPG? I saw pics of it long ago & it looked damn good. Id love to own that!

[Ladriachan]

-Chrono Trigger
-Disgaea (or Makai Kingdom)
-Tactics Advance
-Final Fantasy 6
-Brave Fencer Musashi (though this game WILL make you hungry)

those are some pretty good ones, but Chrono Trigger hands down was one of the best RPGs ever.

[QuadTail]

Chrono Trigger!!* (Easily THE best in my opinion!)
Earthbound/Mother 1, 2, 3*
Tales Of Symphonia* (Also very, very great)
Tales Of Phantasia
FF III/VI
Seiken Densetsu 2/Secret Of Mana
Seiken Densetsu 3
Um... I haven't played them old Phantasy Star games... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif


* Made me cry

[OdinTyler]

He's asking for games that ppl think are revolutionary, not favorites in general, guys. Some of people's favorites arent revolutionary & some of the most revolutionary games arent always people's favorites.

[Shadowpawn]

On 2006-02-19 20:17, Kent wrote:
Zelda games are not technically RPGs. They fall into the same category as games like Prince of Persia;


Prince of Persia's a platformer. If you are going to saying Zelda's isn't an action/rpg then at least call it an action/adventure game. >_>

[Lightfox]

I have to mention my favorites RPG:

Grandia II - Sega Dreamcast
Golden Sun - GBA
Golden Sun The Lost Age - GBA
Breath of Fire 1 y 2 - Snes
Chrono Trigger - Snes


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Black80808056 on 2006-02-20 12:48 ]</font>

[InfinityXXX]

Hmm, revolutionary. The only one I can think thats "revolutionary" would be Dragon Warrior, Pokemon red/blue,Final Fantasy 7, and of course the Phantasy Star series.

I would kind of say Mario RPG cause it was very different and tried a lot of new things I think it was the first game to have characters from a sidescrolling action/adventure game come to an rpg game.

[shinobu_seta]

You gotta wonder why console rpg's are called console rpg's to begin with. I mean, it stands for "role playing game" but you hardly ever truly do this in a console rpg.

Except for some unique instances in the genre, no matter what decisions you make or who you talk to, you're always going to come to the same bosses/endings. No matter how many times you tell such and such person "no you can't join the party" it will always lead through the same conversation loop and they'll join you anyway. You're always on a linear path.

The only rpgish thing about them are the turn based battle systems that borrowed certain elements from table top rpgs in their conception.

By all means I'm not ranting on the genre or anything, I love it, it's just that by the same terms that make a console rpg what it is you could also say that action games and FPS' are rpgs too.

I guess I'm just giving some defense to the people that mentioned some action games and FPS'. No harm intended ^_^

[darthsaber9x9]

Hmmm I guess revoloutionary means different things to different people lol. Some good games have been mentioned here and i'm glad to see that someone else has had the immense privilege of playing Panzer Dragoon Saga.

Anyway i'll stop going on about this awesome game and let the discussion resume lol.

[Skorpius]

On 2006-02-20 13:30, shinobu_seta wrote:
I guess I'm just giving some defense to the people that mentioned some action games and FPS'. No harm intended ^_^
Typically, "RPG" is branded to a game when it incorporates, heavily, a stat system of gameplay, and involves a team of players that travel on an adventure fighting enemies along the way. Granted, RPG's of the D&D sense are actually more freely narrarated, but video games fall under a subcatagory of RPG that has been called CRPG, or Computer RPG. Goldeneye would fall under FPS, since it really is a FIrst Person Shooter.

And that game was mentioned because it was an example of a type of game that influenced its genre.

Also, handheld consoles are still consoles. I'm not sure why someone would think otherwise.

Check this article out. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_and_video_games_that_have_been_considered _the_greatest_ever) It's a good list of games, under different catagories, and a good way to judge some of games that have been thought of as The Best of all Time.

[OdinTyler]

On 2006-02-20 14:43, darthsaber9x9 wrote:
Hmmm I guess revoloutionary means different things to different people lol. Some good games have been mentioned here and i'm glad to see that someone else has had the immense privilege of playing Panzer Dragoon Saga.

Anyway i'll stop going on about this awesome game and let the discussion resume lol.



I played the game too, just didnt get to finish it. I was borrowing it, thats why. Damn cheapskate wouldnt let me hang onto it any longer (like HE was gonna play it!)