Race/Class questions answered.

[Parn]

I wasn't able to play today since I had to go to work, but I did manage to snag some screens for information purposes.

First off, here are stats for each of the four races for each respective class on brand new level 1 characters, in order from human, numan, cast, and beast. In the screens where there's two sets of stats, the stats on the right with some blue and some red indicate changes if you switch to said class, so they are the numbers to look at. The ones on the left are simply your current stats.

Anyways, first off are hunters:
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/human_hunter.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/newman_hunter.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/cast_hunter.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/beast_hunter.jpg
From the stats, beasts clearly have the most attack power and HP, though their accuracy looks to be the lowest. Casts are arguably on par or better (they're more accurate) than humans as hunters, and newmans are definitely at the bottom end of the spectrum.

Next are rangers:
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/human_ranger.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/newman_ranger.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/cast_ranger.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/beast_ranger.jpg
It's no contest that casts make the best rangers. Newmans and humans mix it up for second place while beasts definitely lose out due to their lower accuracy.

Lastly, forces:
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/human_force.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/newman_force.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/cast_force.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/beast_force.jpg
It's no contest with forces... newmans are the best at it. Humans take a definitive second place while casts clearly make the worst force. This does not mean that a cast can't play force effectively, as I proved it could be done with that FOcast screenshot I took, where I could kill just fine. This rule applies to all race/class combinations, really.

Interpret things as you will. I'm not done however. Here are stat adjustments to my own character... first, my stats if I adjust from level 4 hunter to level 1 ranger:
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/parn_ranger.jpg

...or to level 1 force:

http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/parn_force.jpg
You can see that rangers and forces have significantly less HP. It makes sense though, given that hunters cannot cast resta in PSU and the combat in PSU is a lot more intense than it was in PSO in close quarters.

Additionally, I have confirmed that while forces can use melee weaponry, not only do they lack the attack and vitality to make it worthwhile, they cannot level up photon arts, nor can they use leveled up photon arts from hunter/ranger, evidence shown in the following screenshot where I equipped my daggers linked to a level 18 photon art after switching to force, which I leveled on my hunter:
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/parn_dagger.jpg
Depite being level 18, it is treated as level 1 since I am on force, so I get no benefits other than being able to use the basic photon art attack. It makes sense really, since it would have been unfair if forces could use techs AND use all the fancy photon arts. But since they cannot level up photon arts, this implies to me that rangers and hunters will never touch techniques, which by the way, are leveled up for forces the same way hunters and rangers level photon arts... through usage.

Hope that answers some questions. As for stat translations, you can interpret most of them, but there's a bit of stuff I'm unsure on, and if someone would be kind enough to translate a lot of the stuff, that'd be awesome.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2006-04-27 18:55 ]</font>

[vitius137]

great stuff. thanks, this helps a lot ^_^

EDIT: I have 2 questions.

1. what are photon arts for guns like?

2. do leveled up photon arts look any different?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vitius137 on 2006-04-27 19:05 ]</font>

[Parn]

1. I have not obtained one for my handgun, so I can't answer that.

2. Yes, the effects get flashier and the damage stronger through leveling. Level 10 grants you an additional photon art attack, and I'm working on hitting level 20 on dagger to see if I get a third.

[TheStoicOne]

WOW! This was A great overview!! Now if only someone made one for the female characters aswell! We would have a little guide going on!!

[Parn]

I didn't even consider the female characters to possibly have different stats. I'd assume they don't given the current change from what PSO was like for PSU, but I will check as soon as I get the opportunity.

[EspioKaos]

Stat translations:

Base Attack Power
Base Attack Accuracy
Base Technic Attack Power
Base Defense
Base Evasion
Base Mental Strength
Base Endurance

[TheStoicOne]

OH! Its funny because that was the first thing I thought!LOL! Like maybe Newman girls or Newearls have higher mst and lower atp hp. Well anyway thats sounds exactly like PSO so IDK what I'm talkin about anymore!LOL

[vitius137]

woot, translations. no more guessing.

[TheStoicOne]

LOL! Guessing was the best part!!

[Dhylec]

Interesting. I can see that while there are ways to switch classes, the game doesn't allow one almighty - A character with all powers & advantages of all classes. I'd say 'fair enough'. ;]

[Kupi]

On 2006-04-27 19:26, EspioKaos wrote:
Stat translations:

Base Attack Power
Base Attack Accuracy
Base Technic Attack Power
Base Defense
Base Evasion
Base Mental Strength
Base Endurance



Hold up a minute. What does this mean?

[Parn]

Mental Strength is probably resistance to enemy magic.

Edit: Of note, those little green things in the green fields of Parum have techniques at their disposal. I've seen them cast deband and zonde. Zonde hurt me a fair bit, though I've only been hit with it once.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2006-04-27 19:48 ]</font>

[Non-Toxic-Crayons]

ok, so Mental strength probably has something to do with tech resistance.... but whats endurance?

[Parn]

Good question.

[DamonKatu]

very good question...

[RoninJoku]

Perhaps, since it is higher on both FOs and RAs... maybe it deals with PP recharge rates?

[EJ]

I assum mental strength deals with your tech resistances while endurance deals with how long you can use a weapon before it's PP runs out on the field.

[DamonKatu]

hmmmmm... I dont know about that. Maybe while they transfrom, the higher the number the longer/stronger the transformation.

OOPS That was for the last reply... not yours. my bad...

(my bad, not everyone can be good) n.n'

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DamonKatu on 2006-04-27 20:17 ]</font>

[RoninJoku]

Parent post edited

Post deleted



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RurouniJoku on 2006-04-27 20:21 ]</font>

[OdinTyler]

So Mental Strength (aka MST) now has a different purpose in PSU? So how does 1 really gauge their mental prowess for tech usage? I mean in PSO, higher MST affected TP, spell damage, AND heals.

[RoninJoku]

The reason that I believe Endurance would be used for PP recharge rates is that:
1)Forces and Rangers had higher endurace than hunters... PP is also essentially their life-blood... Making quicker regeneration of PP valuable.
2)There has to be some kind of formula or stat governing that PP recharge.
3)Only beasts can Transform, so I doubt they would have a stat JUST for them... However I can easily see the stat also effecting transform duration (assuming it is to vary at all)

***EDIT 4)Had to add this last epiphany!... Looking at the endurance stats, it's almost constant throughout all the classes! Even at level 20, Parn's character still had 20 endurance! The fact that it is a relatively small number that doesn't change much seems to support that it would be involved in a formula that must stay pretty constant throughout the entire game. Much like luck was in PSO. And since Casts and Newmans have slightly higher Endurance than the other races, and since they were the classes that could regen TP/HP in PSO, it would make sense if they were the best at recharging PP in PSU!

Anyone agree???




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RurouniJoku on 2006-04-27 20:49 ]</font>

[Non-Toxic-Crayons]

^I mostly agree^ http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Anyways... I thought I'd repeat all the lvl 1 stats for easier reference than looking at the screens.

For the sake of this comment... Tech attack power shall be TAP, Mental Strength shall be good ol' MST
and Endurance END.

HUNTER---Hp--ATP--ATA--TAP--DFP--EVP--MST--END
Human---173---41---18---22---12---12----5---20
Numan---157---35---19---29---12---13----6---20
Cast----193---43---21---13---15----9----3---20
Beast---216---48---15---16---13---11----3---20
RANGER
Human----92---30---40---22----5---18----5---22
Numan----84---26---42---29----5---18----6---22
Cast----108---33---47---13----7---13----3---23
Beast---112---35---33---16----6---16----4---22
FORCE
Human----80---24---18---51----4---15----9---20
Numan----77---22---20---70----5---17---11---21
Cast-----90---25---21---30----6---11----6---20
Beast----98---28---15---36----5---13----7---20

So as you can see, Beasts hold the highest Hp and Atp, old news...Casts hold the highest ATA and DFP...Numan have the highest TAP, EVP and MST...
Endurance seems special... the stat is constant for all races... except... Casts gain 1 extra over the other RAs and Numan gain 1 extra over the FOs...
The lowest HP and ATP go to numan...Beasts have the lowest ATA...and Casts have the lowest TAP, EVP, and MST... Strangely enough... Humans seem to have the worst defense... but only when played as a FO, otherwise they tie with numan...

Hopefully this made viewing the stats easier on some people http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Non-Toxic-Crayons on 2006-04-27 21:39 ]</font>

[Nuke]

Thanks, easier to compare indeed

i just noticed...is beast really worth it
as Hunter compared to a Human? Beasts TAP
seems pretty low compared to a Human cuz thats
a Hunters main Skill Attacks. ? ? ? ?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nuke on 2006-04-27 21:40 ]</font>

[RoninJoku]

Let's just assume in the end, it balances out... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

So if you like high basic ATP go Beast, then Cast, then Human, then Newman... If you like high PA damage, go Newman, then Human, etc...

EDIT*** Wait, are PAs confirmed to do more damage with increased TAP(and/or)MST?

Thanks for the table NTC! It beats looking from screenshot to screenshot for sure! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RurouniJoku on 2006-04-27 21:43 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RurouniJoku on 2006-04-27 21:50 ]</font>

[TheStoicOne]

Great chart!LOL! Its funny because I abbreviated them the same way! Great minds think alike!

[Nuke]

Spose it all goes to personal liking.
Makes for more originallity too i guess.

[Axios-]

I think that this strongly supports the theory that Endurance relates to PP in some way (perhaps regeneration). If I understand correctly, PP is slightly more vital to the Ranger and Force classes than to Hunters. With that said, the fact that Casts have the highest END of all Rangers and Newmans have the highest END of all Forces seems to be very logical.

[jongsoojon]

So...from what i know, the higher level of that class, more skills and weapons become available...sooo lets say i am a ranger lv 10 and a hunter lv 10 or something, is it possible for me to use a doublesided saber and a mechgun (not at the same time but can i use em with a same class?)

[Ryudo]

what, no LUK? o_O

[Tycho]

It is different for the females I think. I noticed their initial equipment wasn't the same either, so it might be those are related. Although, I haven't been able to find any stat-increasing abilities on the clothes (fourth-tab items)...

[Mitz]

I assume that Endurance is how much PP an attack costs.

[fumatanera]

i was thinking mental strength was tech attack power and mental endurance tech resistance (def.). seems the most logical thing

[RoninJoku]

The stat is not "mental endurance" it is just Endurance... The Tech stats are called Mental Strength, and Technique Attack Power...

So I think it's safe to assume Technique Attack Power is... Technique attack power... Leaving Mental Strenth to be the resistance...

[Mitz]

I don't really think the Mental Strength is resistance. Maybe MST is just for Weapon Requirements and the MST + TAP combos to form the actual damage?

Just rolling the ball of ideas here though.

[Skorpius]

http://ev.dhs.org/skorpius/Extra/psucharacters2.html

I put that together using the information provided in this topic. If there's a difference with Females, I'll fix it.

[SgtSassafras]

I have an important question.

How much does the increase in class level increase stats compared to a regular increase in level?

If there was another human male who was a lvl 4 force, and lvl 1 hunter, with the same character level, what would his stats be in both those classes? I'm trying to figure out if the stat boost from class level is significant or not.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SgtSassafras on 2006-04-28 10:34 ]</font>

[Somah]

can rangers use photon arts for melee weapons like spears?

[Parn]

I'd say yes, considering hunters can use photon arts on a handgun. My understanding is photon arts are for hunters and rangers only for the weapons they can equip, and techniques are for forces only.

Oh and, before I went to work this morning, I made a female character really fast to see if there were stat differences, and there were. I'll get screens of all four races in female form for information purposes tomorrow morning.

Edit: Correction, all classes can use photon arts, but only hunters and rangers can level them up.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2006-04-28 16:40 ]</font>

[Violation]

Damn NTC, beat me to it LOL!

[Violation]

Wait, does this mean that casts are worse at photon arts then everyone?

Also, can you frequently use special attacks (like seen in 'battle video')

I still can't decide human or cast :/ matters about appearance for me now...I'm going to mainly be a hunter. I will probably decide if my above questions were answered.

It would be awesome if they released a character creator before the game ships. Some mmo's have done that. Will never happen though hehe

[TheStoicOne]

On 2006-04-28 16:14, Parn wrote:
I'd say yes, considering hunters can use photon arts on a handgun. My understanding is photon arts are for hunters and rangers only for the weapons they can equip, and techniques are for forces only.

Oh and, before I went to work this morning, I made a female character really fast to see if there were stat differences, and there were. I'll get screens of all four races in female form for information purposes tomorrow morning.



I KNEW IT!! Someone tell Azureblaze!LOL!

[Skye-Fox713]

right now what puzzles me most is why the rangers cant use the long bow? i mean wouldn't that be a weapon that you would identify with as a ranger?, or at a higher ranger level will you be able to use the long bow, cause when i play psu when it comes out i would like to use the longbow as my staple weapon as a ranger. this puzels me very greatly and have a very storng incling to know. can any beta testor anser this question for a nonbeta testor please.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skye-Fox713 on 2006-04-28 16:43 ]</font>

[vitius137]

im probably way off but my guess is TAP=PA attack strength and MST=tech attack strength

[Ryna]

On 2006-04-28 16:41, Skye-Fox713 wrote:
right now what puzzles me most is why the rangers cant use the long bow?


The long bow hasn't been released yet on the Beta. There is no way of telling what the requirements for equipping it will be.

[Skye-Fox713]

true, but on the base stats pictures it shoed rangers not able to use the long bow and forces were, thank you for the response. and can't waint for psu to come out in the US so i can play it for myself.

*Parn looking forward to the race/class for female characters

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skye-Fox713 on 2006-04-28 18:18 ]</font>

[Inazuma]

i have a level 20, force level 3 female newman.
i used the frozen hit handgun photon art and leveled it to 10, which is the MAX i could get it since i am force type.

[Parn]

Hmm... interesting. I wonder then if that also applies to hunters with a handgun.

[Non-Toxic-Crayons]

On 2006-04-28 16:27, Violation wrote:
Damn NTC, beat me to it LOL!


lol, sorry. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif The whole time I was typing it I was hoping that someone hadn't beaten me too it yet....

Anyways... I really would like to see the stats for the females...I would also love to know exactly what some of these stats effect...
I'm really hoping that TAP affects the power of your PA's... because otherwise it wouldnt seem worth it to play a newearl Hunter....

[RoninJoku]

On 2006-04-28 18:25, Inazuma wrote:
i have a level 20, force level 3 female newman.
i used the frozen hit handgun photon art and leveled it to 10, which is the MAX i could get it since i am force type.



Eh? So they can level up photon arts now?? Or is this just an exception for Ranger PA's? #-3-;

[Maridia]

On 2006-04-28 16:14, Parn wrote:

Edit: Correction, all classes can use photon arts, but only hunters and rangers can level them up.



Okay, have you tried this? I simply ask because based on your previous statements:

"Depite being level 18, it is treated as level 1 since I am on force, so I get no benefits other than being able to use the basic photon art attack. It makes sense really, since it would have been unfair if forces could use techs AND use all the fancy photon arts. But since they cannot level up photon arts, this implies to me that rangers and hunters will never touch techniques, which by the way, are leveled up for forces the same way hunters and rangers level photon arts... through usage. "

By your logic, you COULD use and level photon arts with forces, but you'd have to restart from level 1 and regain the lost levels through usage. Have you specifically TRIED to level photon arts with a force? I'm interested to know, as back in one of your posts way back then, you were also adament that no class could use any other type of class's weapons, and you stated that like it was the truth and that was just how it was. Then we find out you were wrong. I simply wish to know what things you know for absolute sure and which you are still not as clear on. I don't mean to sound rude or anything, if I did, I'm sorry. It's just kind of nerve-wracking when you want to make advanced classes and you aren't sure what you have to work with. :3

[Non-Toxic-Crayons]

You have to keep in mind that parn and the others are still pioneering this game... They can't be expected to know everything "for sure". Just be happy that they are supplying us with info at all.
For now, all we can go on is inference and assumption. Even if one piece of info seems to be 100% true, this is still the beta, and nothing is set in stone.

[Maridia]

I know, crayon. My real problem was when information was provided as "fact" when it wasn't totally clear yet. He's just very.. "definite" in the way he gives information, so it's easy to take everything he says as how things are, even if he's really just speculating. I meant no disrespect, and I DO appreciate any information given. I realize they're just pioneering. Why do you think I (unlike a lot of others) aren't firing blind questions off about every aspect of the game? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

I just wanted to know if anyone has attempted leveling photon arts with a Force. <_<

[Skye-Fox713]

now all that we need is the starting female race/class stats adn stuff and we can make a guide sourt of.

[Parn]

On 2006-04-28 20:03, Maridia wrote:
Have you specifically TRIED to level photon arts with a force?
Yep, sure did. They can't. Razon tried it several times during a game before I tested it myself. I killed a few monsters and checked the window to see any change. There is no indication of progression on a weapon level up for forces, at least with dagger. Considering they're rank B on daggers and hunters are rank C, the logical conclusion was that they can't level up photon arts. As it turns out, they can with handguns. *shrug*

Exceptions to every rule, I guess. And my next guess would be that they'd have limited leveling ability with bows.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2006-04-29 01:12 ]</font>

[Tycho]

On 2006-04-28 22:12, Skye-Fox713 wrote:
now all that we need is the starting female race/class stats adn stuff and we can make a guide sourt of.What about the equipment?


On 2006-04-28 20:03, Maridia wrote:
It's just kind of nerve-wracking when you want to make advanced classes and you aren't sure what you have to work with. :3Hm. Since the way you progress Skills and Techniques and the such in a certain class does not affect the class limits of the others... I don't think there really is such a thing as 'advanced classes'. :/

[Ryudo]

hmm did you check to see if maybe it's race dependant?
like a focast can get photon arts on a handgun but maybe not with a saber?
and maybe a FObeast could learn photon arts with a melee weapon?

probably worth checking out at least

[Parn]

Delivered a little later than intended, but here you are. Human, newman, cast, and beast is the order for each set. First up, stats on female hunters:
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/human_hunter_f.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/newman_hunter_f.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/cast_hunter_f.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/beast_hunter_f.jpg

Next are rangers:
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/human_ranger_f.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/newman_ranger_f.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/cast_ranger_f.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/beast_ranger_f.jpg

And lastly, forces:
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/human_force_f.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/newman_force_f.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/cast_force_f.jpg
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/beast_force_f.jpg

Additionally, I took a screen of my stat adjustments upon reaching level 5 hunter:
http://synbios.net/games/PSU/screenshots/beta/hunter5.jpg

[DeathMachine]

Great pictures, Parn. Still wondering on endurance and MST. MST is probably an all around tech stat (resistance, damage, healing), while tech attack is based on mst, and then calculated. Endurance is still another matter, though. Do your characters heal when standing still, or do the PA points change when they level? Just trying to narrow down the reasons for an endurance statistic...

[Inazuma]

so the female newman really is better than the male one. thx for the pics cuz i was wondering how they were different.

[vitius137]

so race does change stats.... that kinda sucks but i guess ill just hav 2 look into it more before i make my char.

EDIT: ok this is what i have so far

male cast ranger (mostly just long range power)
female newman force (for higher mentalness)
female beast/human hunter (high evasion hunter)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vitius137 on 2006-04-30 19:38 ]</font>

[DizzyDi]

I hope that thing about the FOs not being able to lvl up PAs is wrong because I had planned on making a melee'ing FO.

[TheStoicOne]

On 2006-04-30 19:33, vitius137 wrote:
so race does change stats.... that kinda sucks but i guess ill just hav 2 look into it more before i make my char.



I think it's excellent!! The more variety the more choices possible, making it a hell of a lot more difficult to have thousands of your avatar walkin around the colony

[vitius137]

On 2006-04-30 19:36, TheStoicOne wrote:


On 2006-04-30 19:33, vitius137 wrote:
so race does change stats.... that kinda sucks but i guess ill just hav 2 look into it more before i make my char.



I think it's excellent!! The more variety the more choices possible, making it a hell of a lot more difficult to have thousands of your avatar walkin around the colony



im not saying its completely bad, its good that there are more varieties but people will be forced to choose genders that they dont want because it would suit them better. im fine with making girls tho ^_^

[TheStoicOne]

On 2006-04-30 19:39, vitius137 wrote:


On 2006-04-30 19:36, TheStoicOne wrote:


On 2006-04-30 19:33, vitius137 wrote:
so race does change stats.... that kinda sucks but i guess ill just hav 2 look into it more before i make my char.



I think it's excellent!! The more variety the more choices possible, making it a hell of a lot more difficult to have thousands of your avatar walkin around the colony



im not saying its completely bad, its good that there are more varieties but people will be forced to choose genders that they dont want because it would suit them better. im fine with making girls tho ^_^



LOL!!CHEERS*

[Skye-Fox713]

now this makes the game much more intresting than before. indeed.

[EspioKaos]

On 2006-04-30 19:35, DizzyDi wrote:
I hope that thing about the FOs not being able to lvl up PAs is wrong because I had planned on making a melee'ing FO.

Here's how it works as far as the beta is concerned. Remember the following: A hunter's PAs are called skills, a ranger's PAs are called bullets, and a force's PAs are called technics.

A hunter can level his skills up to 20, bullets up to 10, but cannot use technics. A ranger can level up his skills to 10, bullets to 20, but cannot use technics. A force can level his skills up to 1, bullets up to 10, and technics up to 20.

[Dark_Heal_v2]

So these are the offical figures? And the max level of any class is at 20?

[PhotonCat]

I'm thinking 'Endurance' will kinda be like a "fatigue" bar similar to the Elder Scroll games.
When you do actions the bar depletes and you cannot perform your actions very well. Similar to the "stamina" bar in Diablo.

[EspioKaos]

On 2006-04-30 20:04, Dark_Heal_v2 wrote:
So these are the offical figures? And the max level of any class is at 20?
These are the official stats as of the beta. I'm positive the final release will have much higher level caps, especially considering how quickly so many people reached these caps.

[Lord_DS]

A hunter can level his skills up to 20, bullets up to 10, but cannot use technics. A ranger can level up his skills to 10, bullets to 20, but cannot use technics. A force can level his skills up to 1, bullets up to 10, and technics up to 20.

If rangers and hunters cannot use techs i don't really understand why they don't have 0 in "Technic Attack Power" o_-

[TheStoicOne]

Maybe this is bacause photon art power is both TAP+ATP. This makes since to me seeing how rangers PA bullets have elemental charges.

[physic]

a while back i heard of weapons with technics junctioned, maybe there are more rare weapons that use something with technics, like a heal saber, or a deband gun. Of course a lot has changed since the early info, for example in the demo, the main char could do whatever he anted, just had to eq a dif weapon. Also if the stats do in fact get higher, it looks like force might be the most versatile, if that 1 in skills ever becomes a 10. then they will have techniues bullets and skills, maybe this is why they give beast nanoblast and casts suvs, because their fo stats are waaaay lower than a numans melee stats by comparison

[TheStoicOne]

LOL! Either way I'm satisfied. Yeah for strong numans. Yeah for suv weps...etc

I'm so tired.LOL

[Non-Toxic-Crayons]

Male and Female stats compiled fore easy viewing

MALE
HUNTER---Hp--ATP--ATA--TAP--DFP--EVP--MST--END
Human---173---41---18---22---12---12----5---20
Numan---157---35---19---29---12---13----6---20
Cast----193---43---21---13---15----9----3---20
Beast---216---48---15---16---13---11----3---20
RANGER
Human----92---30---40---22----5---18----5---22
Numan----84---26---42---29----5---18----6---22
Cast----108---33---47---13----7---13----3---23
Beast---112---35---33---16----6---16----4---22
FORCE
Human----80---24---18---51----4---15----9---20
Numan----77---22---20---70----5---17---11---21
Cast-----90---25---21---30----6---11----6---20
Beast----98---28---15---36----5---13----7---20

FEMALE
HUNTER---Hp--ATP--ATA--TAP--DFP--EVP--MST--END
Human---166---39---18---23---13---13----5---22
Numan---151---33---18---30---12---14----6---22
Cast----189---42---20---14---15---10----3---22
Beast---205---46---15---17---13---12----4---22
RANGER
Human----88---29---38---23----6---18----5---24
Numan----80---24---40---30----5---19----7---24
Cast----105---33---45---14----7---14----4---25
Beast---106---33---31---16----6---16----4---24
FORCE
Human----77---23---18---53----5---16----9---22
Numan----74---20---19---72----5---17---12---23
Cast-----88---25---20---32----6---12----7---22
Beast----93---27---14---38----5---14----8---22

______________________________________________

Males have higher HP,ATP,ATA
Females have higher TAP,DFP,EVP,MST,END....

[Skorpius]

http://ev.dhs.org/skorpius/psucharacterchart.html

Here's a more organized chart.

[Tycho]

I was considering starting a 'FOnewm', but these sexistly balanced stats bother me; I hope the differences between genders won't get even more extreme later on. -_-;
Also, this class system fails because there would no point in using the same character for both casting and physically damaging, rather than creating a Numan for one, and a character for another class for the other. I like this better than PSO's system, but it's still quite flawed.

Edit: I can't decide which race would be best for Hunters, though it's obvious for the other classes. I'll probably end up making a character of each race. Also, I wonder why Hunters and Rangers have TAP, seeing as they are unable to use Techniques. Furthermore, regarding gender choices, I wonder how crucial, HP will be for Forces, and MST and END for Hunters and Rangers...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tycho on 2006-04-30 23:36 ]</font>

[RoninJoku]

People need to keep in mind if the difference in stats between genders really make that much of a difference to them to sway their character choices... I don't really wanna see tons of people choosing one gender over another because of slightly superior stats... But hell... I guess it will make those inferior genders that much more unique... >.>

[Tycho]

I do not want to choose a character based on what's best. I would like to be able to use those facts to legitimize the choices I had already wanted to make in the first place.

Edit: Screw it. ALLmar for a main, FOnewearl as an homage to PSO, then stil a HUfur(l) and a bot.
As for the mar, I would have liked to be able to give him a low-pitched voice using female speech though. ;-; (For example, like the one Orochimaru from Naruto had.)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tycho on 2006-05-01 00:13 ]</font>

[jongsoojon]

Is it possible to use an doublesaber as a ranger class? cuz i dont see it available to any class right now...*on the pictures*

[Nuke]

knowing females have better force stats, i hope not to
many dudes decide to be female, its wrong ><

[physic]

dudes will play as chicks no matter what stats they have, ths is teh way it was and will be. And yeah, hopefully something is added to the class system, because as it is, as many have said, there is no reason to be anything but beast/cast hunter a cast/human ranger or a numan force. that leaves at least races in any class out in the cold. At least before the skills available to each class differed, and with fo's in ep II and bb they even had bonuses to specific tech classes. I mean what good is a hunewearl who can't cast resta shifta or deband? may as well be a caseal. Some stuff is missing though, it could be that other stats effect other things, or that some lower level technics will be junctioned to weapons, or maybe even certain weapon specials will be technic based.

[TheStoicOne]

Ranger PA's, or Bullets have elemental names like frozen shot,...etc
So it is a possibility

[RoninJoku]

As it stands... A HUnewearl is the worst hunter in the game... And I know ST has better plans for her... We all know from past PSO games that ST is sexist... They wouldn't make females so blatantly inferior as hunters. Would they??? ; ;

But then again, I suppose the evade might more than make up for the lacking of power and accuracy... But as it stands know, the whole mental aspect is going to waste...

[Sev]

In a game like PSU, I don't think endgame stats are gonna be a big deal. For the most part, people are going to use what they want to use. What's the point of making a certain type of character because it's the "Best" overall. You'll never know, and there's always ways to outdo the best in any game. The system is like this so everyone has their strong points in some way or another.

And if you think PSO's system was better... That doesn't make much sense. All they really did was balance things out for this game. Stats that you think are "Useless" will end up having use. That way you don't see so many of one thing. That won't stop people though, since they'll deem certain things useless and others useful.

[Skorpius]

On 2006-05-01 01:44, Nuke wrote:
knowing females have better force stats, i hope not to
many dudes decide to be female, its wrong ><

How is it wrong? It's just a damn video game.

[TheStoicOne]

LOL!! Skorpius I wasn't gonna say anything because I got into an argument yesterday about this ON THIS FORUM! So all I'm gonna say is Nuke it doesn't matter, its not like guys who do that are running around cross dressing or something, and even if they were who's business is it to say what they're doing is wrong. Nobody that's who.

[SgtSassafras]

What's wrong isn't guys playing as female characters in a video game.

Whats wrong is guys playing as male characters in a video game and hitting on every female character they see.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SgtSassafras on 2006-05-01 09:24 ]</font>

[Alisha]

On 2006-04-30 19:35, DizzyDi wrote:
I hope that thing about the FOs not being able to lvl up PAs is wrong because I had planned on making a melee'ing FO.



lol i remember you trying to melee with your fonewearl on pso XD

[Sessilu]

On 2006-05-01 09:23, SgtSassafras wrote:
What's wrong isn't guys playing as female characters in a video game.

Whats wrong is guys playing as male characters in a video game and hitting on every female character they see.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SgtSassafras on 2006-05-01 09:24 ]</font>


True lol, but yeah, even if guys have weaker stats or whatever, i'm still playing with one, it just makes sense..

[TheStoicOne]

On 2006-05-01 09:23, SgtSassafras wrote:
What's wrong isn't guys playing as female characters in a video game.

Whats wrong is guys playing as male characters in a video game and hitting on every female character they see.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SgtSassafras on 2006-05-01 09:24 ]</font>



Exactly my view. Its PHANTASY star universe, not Phantasy star online dating service. Go out if you wanna meet a girl.

[mechatra]

@_@ *light bulb*

* runs off to patent "Phantasy star online dating service" *

[Sev]

On 2006-05-01 09:49, Sessilu wrote:


On 2006-05-01 09:23, SgtSassafras wrote:
What's wrong isn't guys playing as female characters in a video game.

Whats wrong is guys playing as male characters in a video game and hitting on every female character they see.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SgtSassafras on 2006-05-01 09:24 ]</font>


True lol, but yeah, even if guys have weaker stats or whatever, i'm still playing with one, it just makes sense..



No one has weaker stats. Just higher stats in different areas.

[TheStoicOne]

On 2006-05-01 10:35, mechatra wrote:
@_@ *light bulb*

* runs off to patent "Phantasy star online dating service" *



HEY!ITS MINE!

[Thalui89]

I personally don think theres any thin wrong with a guy playing a girl char. when all said and done its a role playing game. I think im going to make a female newman force. This is due to the fact i cant stand the look of the male ones. If a guy wants to play a female char thats fine. if a lass wants 2 play a bloke cghar thats fine. After all its just a game. your meant to have fun by playing with a char u like the most. so what ever makes the player happy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[DizzyDi]

I don't have a problem with guys playing as girls or vica versa too.
As long as guys don't fhkn masquerade as girls and vica versa.
Anybody who plays FFXI knows what I'm talking about when I bring up the word Manthra.
I actually had a friend marry a girl in-game just to figure out a few weeks later it was a dhude.
/shivers.
So many bad memories. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Skye-Fox713]

what interests me the most is that female Rangers have a +2 on the END stat over the male counter part, and is the highest of any class both male and female. This is interesting caus i plan to have a ranger for my main, and if i am reading the posts corectly END has somthing to do with the skills, bullets, & techs yes/no and if i am incorrect please feel free to correct me. Aswell male Rangers have better ATP and ATA by 1-2 points but one less DEF point witch is truly pondering. (-_-)
this could ealsy influence my choice on what gender to make my main. I choose my characters based mostly on stats and a little on apearence, witch is the reason i have a Ramarl on ep1&2 gc

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skye-Fox713 on 2006-05-01 14:48 ]</font>

[Skorpius]

On 2006-05-01 13:39, DizzyDi wrote:
I don't have a problem with guys playing as girls or vica versa too.
As long as guys don't fhkn masquerade as girls and vica versa.
Anybody who plays FFXI knows what I'm talking about when I bring up the word Manthra.
I actually had a friend marry a girl in-game just to figure out a few weeks later it was a dhude.
/shivers.
So many bad memories. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

That falls under not looking towards video games to solve your love problems. It was your friend's fault he was looking for gurlz on a game. ;p

[DeathMachine]

On 2006-05-01 14:36, Skye-Fox713 wrote:
what interests me the most is that female Rangers have a +2 on the END stat over the male counter part, and is the highest of any class both male and female. This is interesting caus i plan to have a ranger for my main, and if i am reading the posts corectly END has somthing to do with the skills, bullets, & techs yes/no and if i am incorrect please feel free to correct me. Aswell male Rangers have better ATP and ATA by 1-2 points but one less DEF point witch is truly pondering. (-_-)
this could ealsy influence my choice on what gender to make my main. I choose my characters based mostly on stats and a little on apearence, witch is the reason i have a Ramarl on ep1&2 gc

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skye-Fox713 on 2006-05-01 14:48 ]</font>

I tried asking, but no one knows. Parn, have you figured it out, or did you not read my last post/play the game these past couple of days?

[Faltz]

Basically RO begs you to marry people online so you can stay with them for long imtes and stuff. I got hit on a lot with my cool looking High Priest back in the day when I had time to play.

But anyway, this is good news. I may actually turn my teenage Human into a force, that would look nice, cuase I want to use lances and photon bow...

[voxie]

Speaking of marraige, wasn't there a wedding lobby (as well as wedding music) on PSO GC? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Anyway, yeah who cares what gender your virtual self is.

I'd also like to know about the +2 on the female RA class.

[Kent]

Hrm... Let's see if I'm getting this right...

After you make a character, picking race, gender, looks, all that good stuff, then you can pick a class. Apparently, you can switch classes, and level them up separately, in order to level their weapon levels separately... So none of the stats 'stick' after you change, including weapontype skill levels (as in, don't carry over into the next class)?

...And you can't use techniques as anyone but a force, and forces basically can't do anything well other than cast?

[Itsuki]

I think a little bit of that is off. Weapon levels appear to carry over from class to class, but the class you are changing to may have a lower cap. Like you may have level 15 in handgun, but you switch to FO, and you can only have 10. The levels in the class also appear to change the different types of weapons you can equip, aswell as the maximum level you can get those weapons to.

Each class does one thing really well, and then another kinda so-so. FO appear to be able to do decent with ranged (guns/bows), but their weapon selection appears to be limitted. Not to mention their low ATP can effect their effectiveness with guns. But FO apparently can use all types of skills, melee, ranged, and techs. They just happen to suck at melee, and be only mediocre at ranged.

[oShojino]

Okay, to put to rest the debate on leveling PA's on a force.. I have this to show you.

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4360/psu1738bb.jpg

I leveld up my spear skill to 8 on my hu, then switched to fo and went to see if my spear would level, and lo and behold.. I find it was smacked down to level 1 and listed as maxed.


Im as upset as the next guy, I really wanted to make a hybrid Huneman that could use magic, but melee would be useless on FO and I cant cast magic on HU. I notice though that Newmans are as horrible melees people are making them out to be, they beat out/match humans stats in everything but hp and atp, same with RA as well. Right now it seems females have a bit of an unfair advantage over their male counterparts, but I think armor and weapon choices will balance this out in the end... though ST seems to like giving females some unfair advantages both in equipment and spell choice *cought huneweral cough*.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: oShojino on 2006-05-01 21:00 ]</font>

[Alexandrious]

On 2006-05-01 14:52, Skorpius wrote:


On 2006-05-01 13:39, DizzyDi wrote:
I don't have a problem with guys playing as girls or vica versa too.
As long as guys don't fhkn masquerade as girls and vica versa.
Anybody who plays FFXI knows what I'm talking about when I bring up the word Manthra.
I actually had a friend marry a girl in-game just to figure out a few weeks later it was a dhude.
/shivers.
So many bad memories. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

That falls under not looking towards video games to solve your love problems. It was your friend's fault he was looking for gurlz on a game. ;p



Met my girlfriend on a Everquest Emu server. Dated for 4 months online, and now shes living with me.

Basically alot of relationships and marriages can happen online, alot of em from mmos. Ive seen it happen many times, their is nothing wrong with it, people prefer it cuz they might be too shy in RL to talk to a girl or vice versa.

[Skorpius]

oShojino, the actual game will (more than likely) have higher caps for Photon Art levels on bladed weapons for Forces (along with Guns and Canes, etc). Since it is only the beta, you're only seeing a small fraction of what's to come.

In the future, it's very likely that a "melee force" can exist, using low levels of "skills" and also combining them with high level "technics" to create an interesting gameplay combo.

[physic]

I leveld up my spear skill to 8 on my hu, then switched to fo and went to see if my spear would level, and lo and behold.. I find it was smacked down to level 1 and listed as maxed.

so does this mean you can switch jobs anywhere? even in teh heat of battle in a dungeon? (the background your in seems to be a battle area when you 'r making teh switch)

[SgtSassafras]

The problem I see with the current skill/bullet/tech system is the initial weapon ratings. Forces supposedly can go up to 10 in bullets, but only 1 in skills, yet they have a B rating in daggers, which is high than hunters.

I'm not certain of things are just set up like this for beta, but I think more advancement can take place.

My suspicion is that the levels for photon arts will be like 3/3, 2/3, and 1/3 for each class. So my suspicion is that forces will get PAs for melee weapons (but only 1/3rd the level) and rangers and hunter will learn techs (but only 1/3rd their level).

[Shade-]

anyone else think it's silly that they pick arbitrary secondary stats? I'm a ranger, so I get full on bullets obviously. But who is ST to tell me that my next rated class should be a 10 in blades? Is it so wrong for me to want a 10 in techs and lvl 1/0 in blades?

[Itsuki]

It might be a balancing issue. To sort of force partying along a bit. PSU is supposed to be more party oriented than PSO.

[REJ-]

I just hope I can use a FO with a mechgun and techs, makes for some interesting fights.

[mechatra]

So hold up then.

Lvling up photon arts makes them stronger right?

Also with hunter "skills" every 10 PA levels it seems you can chain on a new photon art.

Can Rangers and Forces do this aswell, or do they get a different bonus for reaching lvl 10 then 20 with their respective PA's?

[Parn]

It's not necessarily level 10, as that was an assumption on my part since I didn't realize I had a second attack until I was already level 14 on dagger. I gained my second photon art attack on spear at level 12, so I dunno. I never got a third photon art attack with dagger at level 20.

[Neith]

Just one question- since Beasts have such low accuracy, has anyone found it annoying to hit things in melee? If it's not TOO noticable, then great, otherwise I might consider another class.

Cheers.

[mechatra]

Actually that's something I'm abit concerned about aswell.

I'm aiming to make a male beast hunter stylee but I'm alittle worried my hits are gonna be flailing all about the place.

[physic]

well even if it isnt that bad now, it may be later, in pso at low levels hitting things was easy, but by the time you were on ult, some jobs were miss masters

[Nuclearranger]

Anyone who wants to be a beast shouldnt worrie to much because there are allways things to work on your weaknesses

[VelosofLight]

So, wait, if I start as a Hunter, level to 50, and then switch to Force, will I just be eternally gimped? I don't really like the ideas of there being 'Pure' characters that excel completely in one field...

[Timothy]

First of all i want a Bishie so iam going for Human or newman , i'll grab force class if newman or hunter class if human.
Since there are too much different between race & class , better to take the good job for the race choosen.

[VelosofLight]

I just think the enhanced customizability will be fun. Even though at first the characters seemed to be so customizable, once you went online everyone was so generic. For example, Timothy there supposedly can make just about anything Bishie-fied, but before, you were pretty much limited to FOmars. (FOnewms were just... creepy.)

[Timothy]

On 2006-05-02 17:32, VelosofLight wrote:
For example, Timothy there supposedly can make just about anything Bishie-fied, but before, you were pretty much limited to FOmars. (FOnewms were just... creepy.)


FOmar with their girly side & HUmar with their muscled side are bishie <3 , and FOnewm too if u make them Little and not tall , they look Kawaii as FOnewearl.

I also love the FOmarl she look so quiet & Peacefull

[VelosofLight]

Yeah, I was a big FOmarl fan... I hope some of the old classic outfits are available, just for memory's sake.

Oh man, I want a FOcast with that annoying Dr. Monty FOnewm hat! That'd be great!

[Kent]

Alright... If this keeps past beta, then PSU just got that much worse. I hate being forced to play an over-specialized character. The FOmar was basically the perfect character class for me, they excelled in melee (for a Force), were very good with techniques, and specialized in some damage techniques, and support techniques. Overall, I had a very balanced character.

It seems to me, that Forces in PSU will "suck" royally, in melee combat... But be mediocre with guns? I'd rather be mediocre with melee, and suck with guns (techniques for ranged combat is how I've always done it, for the most part, and how I prefer to do things).

...But didn't someone say the current level cap is 20? Is the skill cap for what your class specializes in equal to your current class' level? If that's the case, then, if say, the level cap is 200... You could be a Force with 200 Technique/100 Bullet/20 Skill? Well, that probably isn't known for sure...

But this is some seriously disappointing news. Encouraging party play is nice and all, but forcing players to over-specialize is very much not.

[VelosofLight]

Don't worry, Forces have always been the tough class to play, but I'm sure they'll grow just like they did in PSO. Really, Forces were pretty useless until Vhard at least, when healing items got pricey and power-up spells were necessary.

[physic]

well forces have a 1 in melee every one else has a 0 in techs, so they are currently the most rounded class, course thier ata and def suck so. however when the cap goes up it is likely they may get some melee skills, though super low

[VelosofLight]

I knew a girl that played a FOnewearl that always tried to melee things, and would die pretty much instantly. Forces were never really meant to melee anything, that's why they get to shoot killer fireblasts from their faces.

[Skorpius]

On 2006-05-02 19:57, VelosofLight wrote:
Forces were never really meant to melee anything

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Snapshots/Gamecube/?action=view&current=untekkedprophets.flv

[Parn]

That is a perfect example of broken gameplay. It kind of reminds me of my PSO Version 1 days on Dreamcast where my HUmar could cast every technique in the game and had more of every stat than all force classes, making forces completely pointless.

I'm glad they're restricting things. It needed to be done.

[physic]

yes yes but a level 181 fo offline in forest 1, is that really a test? Though i must admit, if it wasnt for the absolutely horrible ata and the fact everything is usually dead before you can hit it with melee online, fomar might have been not totally useless in combat

[Kent]

FOmar was meant to mix melee and techniques, which is the style of play that I know a lot of people (myself included) very much prefer to play. They are, by no means, anywhere near bad at meleeing, and it's very possible to mix the two styles successfully. If Forces weren't meant to melee, then what were FOmarls meant to do? Expend TP on support techniques, and sit back, occaisionally hitting something with Grants, and subsequently watching FOnewearls get more milage out of their TP with basic techniques (due to Grants' high TP cost, and the higher power from a FOnewearl's specialized basic techniques - not to mention the vast different in TP pools)?

I don't know how much of an impact skill level makes with combat, but I'm guessing it makes a sizable impact, which is why Sonic Team's decision on this part is so disconcerting, because it basically takes part of what made PSO so great (that there's basically a different character for whatever type you wanted to play, mixing various combat styles, to whichever extent you preferred), and just tosses it to the wind. Even if they change this (which I hope they either change it, or make weapon type levels not a humongous impact on overall performance), it's not a good sign that they considered it.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

As a melee FOmar player, I'm a bit disappointed that forces will not be able to melee as effectively as in PSO. However, I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Concerning melee forces being broken, that simply isn't true. For FOmars and FOmarls, they are able to do much more damage through melee than through the casting of techs, yet they are still forces because they can effetcively support the party at the same time.

[Feran]

I dont know what is every ones so worked up about.
This time ALL forces are "decent" in melee and the whole no level thing, may just be that this is their restriction to make them more magic-centered.

Also, it may be that they learn "flashier" PA's (but have low max level) so ST have restricted the level.

Judge after not before, don't repeat the mistakes our ancestors made.{Assuming your american, if not ignore last part, but keep the meaning.}

[Sev]

Have you guys seen how strong techs are in this game?

Simple answer, you can't have everything. You get techs, who cares if your melee sucks? You can more then make up for it with your tech abilities. You still get to cast support and debuff spells. If you can't make it on your own with that then I don't know what to tell you. If you have bad ATA, they have slots on equipment if I'm not mistaken. Make it better there. It just seems greedy. FO's seem to get the best choices throughout the game, but it looks like you only want more.

If a FO is good at melee. Why have a Hunter? Yeah, Hunters have more HP and ATP... But they can't just blow things out of the sky with a few techs when the situation gets bad. They also can't heal theirselves, increase they're own DFP or ATP, or impair the enemy.

To me, it just looks like ST's being fair. They're trying to put balance in the game, and every type has it's strengths and weaknesses when you get down to it. It's just that people will say "This is worthless" and accept it as such. If you wanna melee, do it. Shouldn't be easy on you, it doesn't look like it'll be that easy on a Hunter.

[physic]

fomars ata was just to bad to hit many things online, even at max, hck it was hard enough with hucast max ata. there is a sizable difference between online and offline, and ep I and ep II. however it is right that if they can hit they could do more dmg with weapons in some cases, like with good hit % mechs, on single monsters. It is true that currently it appears that classes are very limited in scope, however when more info comes out that may change, they may have fo weapons that can be used in melee and dont suck, or some other wierd thing

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2006-05-02 20:47, Feran wrote: Judge after not before, don't repeat the mistakes our ancestors made.{Assuming your american, if not ignore last part, but keep the meaning.}


What the hell does that mean? And I judge everything all the time, that's part of human nature, you know.

Yes, I've seen how strong techs are so far. We've only seen up to level 30, though. Go try PSO out and see how much damage techs do on normal or hard, then compare that to the damage they do on ultimate, and you'll see why I'm a bit skeptical of the whole "zOMG techs are so powerful!11" argument.



On 2006-05-02 20:54, physic wrote:
fomars ata was just to bad to hit many things online, even at max, hck it was hard enough with hucast max ata. there is a sizable difference between online and offline, and ep I and ep II. however it is right that if they can hit they could do more dmg with weapons in some cases, like with good hit % mechs, on single monsters. Not rly. My FOmar has max ATA (163), yet I can still melee things very effectively, even in Ultimate Desert. Sure, I have to do weak-weak-hard combos to make sure I hit everything, but I can even use Berserk (and hit with it often) on my Excalibur on frozen/paralyzed/confused enemies.

Will you miss a lot if you try hard-hard-special combos? Yeah, but you suck at PSO if you think you can do that with any class (other than rangers).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ffuzzy-Logik on 2006-05-02 21:01 ]</font>

[DeathMachine]

I thoroughly agree with Sev. I had a HUcast in PSO. It was increadibly difficult in, say, a boss fight with no techs, or any of that nonsense. Then, if I took a FOmar, or RAmar, the fight was miraculously easy in comparison. Being able to heal, increase/decrease stats, fix status, blow up, fry, freeze, light up, etc. makes things too easy, and would make FOing soooooo easy, you won't ever need a Ranger or Hunter.

[Sev]

That's just the thing. This isn't PSO. People seem to not understand that.

This game is attempting to make things evened out. Therefore I don't expect for your techs to magically suck. And really, all the FO's that I played with at higher levels on PSO their techs weren't that bad. And again... "We've only seen up to level 30" --- Listen to yourself? We've only seen up to level 30, we don't know what anything will be like. The "zOMG techs are so powerful!11" argument is all that's available. Considering...

They're powerful. Fact > Opinion

Also you should keep in mind that this isn't like other games. You can get out of the way of attacks, wouldn't being good at a melee character come down to how well you can control your character?

[Kent]

It kinda sounds to me like some people haven't played PSO as a variety of characters. :/

Being able to make a Force character that's good at meleeing is nowhere near game-breaking. Some people would prefer a versatile character over one that can only do one thing well - and here's where the point is being missed: Some people like playing versatile characters. I know this isn't PSO, but you'd have to be an idiot to deny that this game not only encompasses many of the aspects of PSO, but also that it is a successor to PSO (not saying PSO2, but the connection is there).

I've never had any problem hitting enemies in Ultimate with my FOmars. But, in no way, does that mean that Hunters and Rangers are useless. Hunters can hit far harder that I can, and Rangers can hit from a greater distance. FOnewms and FOnewearls could blast enemies from afar, doing more damage than I could with my techniques. However, as a FOmar, what do I get? I'm above-average (but by no means exceptional to the point of imbalance) in both melee combat, as well as ranged combat (albeit using techniques, occaisionally using guns/cards). It's about trodding the middle ground, not being uber at everything. I have a bit more sense than to want something like that in a game.

[physic]

really i dont see how one could a fomar could hit well, when my maxed hucast was missing stuff, with +hit% weapons. sure offline or in forest, but take that to spaciship or try to hit a gi gue and see hwta happens. probably because you were a fo you used magic in these situations, but that wasnt an option for a hucast. 10 tris 10 diamates and no teleipe whoooo that was hardcore.

As to teh limiting, my problem isnt with fo's only being tech types, but then it makes other races seem worthless why be anything but a newman fo, if you cant even try to mellee, or do anything worthwile ranged? I mean as a former cast, not having techniques wont faze me much, but it will be annoying if everyone is a beast or a cast who melees simply because the other two classes have no potential in teh job at all. Or if every force has to be a numan. I'd rather not see every body being the same in these games.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2006-05-02 22:13, physic wrote:
really i dont see how one could a fomar could hit well, when my maxed hucast was missing stuff, with +hit% weapons. sure offline or in forest, but take that to spaciship or try to hit a gi gue and see hwta happens. probably because you were a fo you used magic in these situations, but that wasnt an option for a hucast. 10 tris 10 diamates and no teleipe whoooo that was hardcore.No, when fighting a Gi Gue with my FOmar, I'd J/Z it, then just keep attacking it with weak-weak-weak or weak-weak-hard combos with my 50 hit Charge Vulcans or my Holy Ray if it is far away. The only techs I really use on my FOmar are S/D/J/Z/Resta/Anti, but that's all I really need to use.

[physic]

yeah well 50% charge vulcans effectively nerfed the inate fo weakness, but that type of stuff isnt available till late in the game, its possible that teh same high end ways out could exist, they could have units that increase your rank, or weapon skill level. if your talking endgame, then we really ahve no idea what one could do

[Shade-]

OK! I figured out why I'm so frustrated about the force/tech thing!

CAUTION!

<rant=on>

At first, ST said there wouldn't really be classes, and they way they would ballance melee/magic was that you had to have a FO type wep to cast the spells off the wep, you can't just access a magic list. This I thought was a good idea. It leaves playstyles open to preference. Force type characters got a much needed boost since they normally would have one on anyway, and in order for a hunter/ranger type to use a tech, they have to halt combat, and change weapons before casting, then switch back, rather than just opening a menu, casting the spell in the fray, and continue swinging. This I felt was a good idea. It stopped HU/RA types from abusing techs and left them more to the exclusive FO types.

But when they changed thier plans and put in very rigid class restrictions, I became very unhappy. Not only could I now not even have the ability to hold a cane as a hunter, which I felt was a fair punnishment to cast the occasional tech. So not only to the completely lock out casting from Hunters and Rangers, they equally lock down close combat fighting for forces. Numen may not be a problem, because aside from the rare situation, they dont have any advantage to using a melee weapon. But more specificly, the beasts and casts, who could do a decent job as a straight up force, but not near what a Num can do. So the obvious choice is to have your beast pick up a set if claws, cast some decent spells, buff yourself with magic, and then throw on some claws and melee for decent damage. But they can't even do that.

The arguement has been made that where once race has a disadvantage at one thing, they have an advantage in another. As a hunter, beasts have less ATA than a human or cast, but it's made up between the increased ATP, HP, and DEF. Numen still get the short end of the stick of course, with thier mains strength being thier higher evasion. This is all well and good right? There are jobs that excell at a job (beast, cast) one that is average (human) and one at a slight disadvantage (numan).

Cross over to Forces. Numen are BLATENTLY stronger than every other class at Force. With good reason too, as it stands they make decent rangers and subpar/chalanging hunters. My bias for beasts and casts may start to show right about now, but just go with me. With the basic stats (yes at level 1, yes i understand they probably wont scale evenly) for a force a Numan has 70 tap, and a cast has a whopping 30. I know numen have a natural advantage and casts have a natural disadvantage, but its more than DOUBLE. The case for beasts in the same area is not much better at all, but just passes the double over figure.

CAUTION: I'm using "THE WORD" and I stand by it unless I see that things were revised for the beta/will be revised after the beta before release

It's said that each race has advantages and disadvantages in certain areas. This is true, yes. But unless you have the chance to use each of your stats to your full potential, you are often left without being able to USE your advantages, and are stuck with the disadvantages. A cast or beast force is past a "challanging race to play for that job" It is no less than GIMPED. I said it, they GIMPthemselves if thier advantages are locked away deep behind class restrictions. Yes, same with numen hunters. I wouldn't say thier deficite is as extreem as the other case, but if thier main advantage is completely 100% out of reach.

The class system is far too restrictive for the type of game this is and completely disregards player opinions and racial differences. I personally wanted my main character to play somewhere split between a HUnewerl and a FOmar. Why cant I have a 50/50 split between blades and techs? does that unbalance anything? I'm not as good as a more dedicated player of either style. My stats would probably be lower in each stat, and I would have lower level weapons and techs than either of them, but that's how I would prefer to play. Is that so much to ask? My closest bet at this point is take a beast and set him to force. Then with his higher HP ATA and DEF I could make some use of blades. Problem being, I can't use any Photon arts anyway, and at that, half the weapon classes are locked out off the bat, specifcly the ones I want to use (double claws and axes).

My ideal situation, which probably wont happen, but there is a change there will be a change in it's favor may be made before full release. When you create your character (probably) you pick certain things when you start. First, what class you start as. Then, there is some customization for each class after that. Say hunter first. You are then asked between RA and FO, what your secondary class will be. Say you pick RA as your secondary, you get to pick 3 RA type weps that you can use (handguns and sabers thrown in as freebies for everyone, as they all start with them) and then finally, FO is last, they can only use canes and can only use one line of tech, you pick barta for example. You can still only use a teck if your stat is high enough, and still only if the right wep is on, but still a Numan could use slightly higher level stuff than a Cast. Seems fair right?

So as an example character, I want to make my hybrid-ish beast. I make him, he looks sweet of course. I set him to start as force, so I can learn and cast all avalable spells like normal. Secondary class I pick Hunter. I can now pick 3(ish, just picked a number that seemed fair) HU weapon classes to be able to use. The naturally lower ATP stat from being a force limits how high ranked items I can use, but being a beast, the natural ATP boost will balance it a bit. I'll pick Axe, Claws, and double saber. RA being my third class I will have an increasingly low ATA stat from being a force and having RA in third, and I only get one item class in RA stuff. I'll take the photon bow, with no intent of using it, it just seems cool. So now, I can cast most spells. Not the highest level techs and not the biggest numbers in the game due to my race, but with HU as my secondary, and the racial boost to those stats, I can hold my own in light combat. As for shooting stuff, might as well forget it. I'll have a first level bow when ranger classes have 4th level bows and I'll miss every other shot as it is.

</rant>

That's it. It took untill now for me to figure out how ST was trying to outsmart me, but I caught them. If I have made a terrible oversight as to how something in the beta currently works, please let me know so I dont continue to make a total fool out if myself. Otherwise, if you actually made it this far, I'd love to hear comments/criticisms/questions. (wow that got long)

[physic]

well im guessing that the complete suckage of beast and cast forces, is why they get nano blasts and suv weapons, but that still furthers teh only be a hunter beast/cast and cast/hu ranger or a nu/hu force, forget the other two for each class because their strength are worthless for those classes.

ANd as to teh guy that says some enjoy teh middle ground, there will be none as it stands, thats why people are upset, having high hp ata and defence for a fo, will be useless if you cant attack with a weapon with a decent grade. your ata/atp is useless because your cane is teched up, your hp and defence are nearly useless because you dont really have much reason to get hit, not to mention your loss in TAP vs a numan way outweighs your gain in ata and atp. a numan hunter, all his strengths lie in mind and tap, in what way will that help him with 0 techs available? he has ok evade, but really how much will that help when you have crappy defence and have to hit something way more, as well as miss more?

these are teh probs peopel have, and while it seems that it could be changed or have mitigating factors by release, right now people are antsy, with somehwat good reason



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: physic on 2006-05-02 23:00 ]</font>

[Shade-]

On 2006-05-02 22:53, physic wrote:
well im guessing that the complete suckage of beast and cast forces, is why they get nano blasts and suv weapons, but that still furthers teh only be a hunter beast/cast and cast/hu ranger or a nu/hu force, forget the other two for each class because their strength are worthless for those classes



Exactly, if they ONLY gave beasts the nano blasts if they were rangers or forces, and only gave casts the SUV if they were hunter or force, I can see that example applying, but like you said, all it means is there is more of an advantage to using those races for thier proficent classes, and therefore isolating the other 2/3 even more.

[Skorpius]

On 2006-05-02 20:08, Parn wrote:
That is a perfect example of broken gameplay.
No, that's an example of strong character using a really cheese weapon in a weak area. Although, my knowledge and skill with FOmarls make them look very powerfull anyway, so I can see how you'd get the wrong idea.

I think the target of your arguments should be this (http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1190) character, so you don't look completely uneducated.

[Parn]

On 2006-05-02 22:59, Skorpius wrote:
so you don't look completely uneducated.
This coming from the guy that thinks casting shifta/deband and using jellen/zalure to make yourself hit harder is "advanced gameplay"? I did that crap with my HUmar on PSO version 1 and 2, back when hunters were ridiculously overpowered. You have to be retarded to think that's advanced gameplay.

The only part of Phantasy Star Online that was even remotely challenging is (gasp) challenge mode. You know... that mode where forces avoid melee, rangers aren't swinging double sabers, and hunters can't afford to get hit because they can't LOL RESTA. Wow, this... kind of sounds relatively familiar.

Let's quit fooling ourselves here. It's not about making "advanced characters". You want to be able to do big damage without techs and be able to cast Resta on yourself. That's what it really is all about.

[Kent]

Ever played a FOmar in challenge mode? Using a rod, and attacking from behind while an enemy is fixated on another person, is a good way to chip in some damage, without blowing TP on attack techniques, and it actually does damage to make it worth the button presses.

Still not as good as a Hunter, of course, but you don't avoid melee in all cases in Challenge mode. At least, not as a FOmar/l.

[Parn]

All forces in challenge mode should make a quick strike in challenge mode, so they can try to get experience as well. Avoid melee, not rule it out completely. But the fact remains that they sucked at it majorly and they needed to keep their distance as much as possible. Challenge mode was tough for hunters because they didn't have a crutch to rely on (resta). Challenge mode was tough for forces because they couldn't spam their techniques, and going melee happy wasn't feasible due to their really low HP. Rangers uh... they did the usual, heh.

Basically, my problem with most of these complaints is that people want to be able to make their all-powerful self-sustaining character. It all reminds me of the whining HUmars did when shifta, deband, grants, and megid were taken away from them for Episode II.

[fumatanera]

the point of all this is that you're supposed to be playing with a team. if you have six chars running around, you don't need six gifoies going off at once and then everyone takes out their saber and start hacking away. there are roles. and each char can potentially fill each role, not as well as others, but it can be done. if your team is lacking healing and support then somone better switch to FO.
personally i love the straight up FO class. i'd rather wail all over monsters with techs and status effects than try and whack them with a dinky cane any day. but when i get the urge to hack or shoot i'll change over to my other classes.
like it's already been said a hundred times..... this is not PSO



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fumatanera on 2006-05-03 13:06 ]</font>

[DizzyDi]

I don't think its so much about making an all-powerful character as its just that we don't want to make an over-specialized character.
With the system that ST put into PSU you're pretty much stuck with your class.
Sure you can switch it whenever you want but I was expecting a system where you could mix and match your skills.
If I went into a mission with HU I want to be able to cast a few spells here and there, and a FO should be able to use PAs.

[Feran]

Beast force does NOT suck.
I will/am one.
SO ill be one, prolly a very low minority http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
(I would be now if stupid alienware would send my computer before beta ends http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif )

[Sev]

People don't want to be over-specialized. Yet anything other then a Beast Hunter is still useless eh? Then don't be a Beast Hunter, use something not so specialized if you will. I think I may have said this before, but we don't know what stats will really effect what until the games release. That stat that you think is useless, might not be as bad as you think later in the game.

[Skorpius]

On 2006-05-03 03:52, Parn wrote:
This coming from the guy that thinks casting shifta/deband and using jellen/zalure to make yourself hit harder is "advanced gameplay"?
Yeah, sure. But if you think Melee Forces are "broken gameplay", then you'll have a shit-fit when you see RAmarls.

[Parn]

There's lots of things that have been broken with PSO since the day I first imported it on Dreamcast in December of 2000. One of the most broken things ever was when I got my Sinow Red's Blades with 45% A. Beast and 10% Hit on Dreamcast PSOV2. Back then, percents adjusted your damage based on your total ATP, not the weapon's own ATP. Talk about ridiculous damage.

So no, I'm not going to have a "shit-fit" because I already know how broken PSO is/was. I'm glad to see all of that go away.

Edit: One of my good friends made a PS4-based comic that illustrates a good example of what I'm talking about regarding PSO's broken mechanics awhile back. I think it's worth posting.
http://synbios.net/images/faked-basic.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2006-05-03 09:15 ]</font>

[Sev]

I've played PSO with more characters then I can count. I've also lost more characters then I can possibly count to corruption and other problems.

I know that this isn't PSO. Just like PSO wasn't PS4. People will never not compare them, because they can't let go of the past. Rather, they're afraid of change.

On the serious side though, this is the main problem. You'll continue to look at PSU compared to PSO. Just like people looked at PSO compared to the older PS series. Nothing changes. It's the same whining and complaining because this isn't like that, and that isn't like this. There's a key difference in the whining this time around though.

We don't even have the completed game..

[Saiffy]

On 2006-05-03 09:11, Parn wrote:
some stuff

Version 2 is different from Version 3. Easy. Lemon squeezy?

[physic]

well i dont think people are just complaining here, they are doing what a forum is about discusiing something based on the info you have. BAsed on the info we have, you wont be balanced differently as an off job race, you will be gimped up, i guess thats really what people are saying. I mean whats the balance of being a beast fo? unless grades and skill levels are highly overated in gameplay. but then if they are, that would make fos super strong.

[Sev]

Not everyones complaining. Some people are. And more to the fact, they're complaining before physically touching the game. PSU doesn't look like the whole game will be based on end stats. We also don't know what's going to happen as you get further in the game. It's great to speculate and all, you just can't mark something down as fact. Facts have supporting evidence... If you don't have any of that... Don't say that somethings a fact, because obviously it isn't right?

We don't know what advantages there are yet. We only know the disadvantages... Even those... Don't seem to be that apparent at the lower levels. Who's to say as differences come up later, there won't be other solutions to making your character better? No one can say. I keep saying we just don't know how important the stats will be in the end... And people just don't agree. That's fine. I just think we shouldn't assume everything to be set in stone and be upset about it before touching the game.

You say what's the balance of being a Beast Fo? How should I know? Rather, how should anyone know at this point? From what we saw of the FOCast, the tech damage wasn't bad at all. So will Beast tech damage be bad? And how will it vary later based on your stats?

I don't know how things are gonna change. I don't have a problem admiting that I don't know. But who does know?

Edit: Strange wording... May as well be somewhat understood.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sev on 2006-05-03 12:10 ]</font>

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I realize that we don't know anything for certain yet, but are we not allowed to speculate?

And Parn, if you think melee FOmar(l)s are borken, I'd love to hear what you have to say about HUnes and RAmarls.

The real problem that I have is that I do not want to be pidgeon-holed into being a purely tech-spamming niche, maybe hitting with melee for laughable damage every now and then. I don't like my FOmar because he can melee with S/D and get UBAR DAMAGE111, because if I wanted that, I'd use a HUne or RAmarl. I got a RAmarl to level 101 then stopped using her because it was just too easy.

[Sev]

No Ffuzzy-Logik. You're not allowed to speculate. I own all the rights to speculation, and in order to do so, you need to pay me royalties as well as pay homage to my Damn Divine self.

To be honest though, I understand. You can speculate. Just don't get it in your skull that "This is the way things will be" because as you know... As I know... As everyone knows. We don't know. Hitting for laughable damage is better then hitting for no damage at all.. You at least get access to melee weapons and can use Photon Arts. Moreso, I don't know if anyone has said anything about having and using Shifta/Deband and Zalure/Jellen yet.

[Kupi]

And I'd like to chime in that any statistical analysis done on the stats we have is ignoring the effect of class levels on character stats. Yes, Beasts and Casts may look "gimped" in terms of TAP at the outset, but your class level is going to throw some amount of TAP on top of what you get racially. Granted, it'll put that same amount on Newmen and Humans as well, but adding a constant amount across the board is going to have an evening effect, no matter how the racial stats are growing otherwise. At the very least, it'll clear up some of the intersections on the stat chart (like RAnewearls having the same TAP as FOcasts).

As for the massive disparities in TAP between Newmen and Humans, and Humans and Beasts and Casts, I'd like to point out that PSO's FOnewearl had a maximum MST cap of 1750, the highest cap of any non-HP or TP stat in the game. (The HUcasts's ATP is a close second at 1639.) But how much damage did you really get out of boosting your MST? 20 to 50 points, assuming you were actually using the right Tech? 26 to 65, if you were using a Merge? But if you used weapons, you had not only your base ATP, but your weapon's ATP, damage bonus by %, and Shifta and Zalure as well. That huge gap in TAP, like MST, might not produce that large of a damage gap, especially later in the game.

And, as Sev said (sorta), that's really the big problem here. We're trying to debate end-game balance issues using nothing but freshly created characters in a game with a precedent for balance shifts as the game progresses (PSO). So, please, can we wait to start yelling "GIMPEDGIMPEDGIMPED ;_;_;_;_;_;_;_;"?

[Skorpius]

On 2006-05-03 12:53, Kupi wrote:
So, please, can we wait to start yelling "GIMPEDGIMPEDGIMPED ;_;_;_;_;_;_;_;"?
I think the issue is that certain people are already saying "PLAY THIS WAY OR U SUX" and the game isn't even out yet. Instead of being open to the fact that people play differently, they've already made the decision to narrow their thinking and attempt downplay others' validity if they don't adhere or conform to the "standard" that seems to have already been placed for PSU.

[Reystradamus]

cant we all just get along

[Kupi]

On 2006-05-03 13:05, Skorpius wrote:


On 2006-05-03 12:53, Kupi wrote:
So, please, can we wait to start yelling "GIMPEDGIMPEDGIMPED ;_;_;_;_;_;_;_;"?
I think the issue is that certain people are already saying "PLAY THIS WAY OR U SUX" and the game isn't even out yet. Instead of being open to the fact that people play differently, they've already made the decision to narrow their thinking and attempt downplay others' validity if they don't adhere or conform to the "standard" that seems to have already been placed for PSU.



Two sides of the same coin, really. "I want a Beast Force, but I don't want to suck!" and "Forces should be Newmen, otherwise they suck" rely on the same kind of thought processes.

[Sev]

Well the thing is. Nobody is saying to do this or that. You can do what you want, it's up for your parties or your friends or you yourself to decide what's worthless and what's not worthless. oShojino found that melee wasn't worth his time at this level due to stats... That doesn't mean that you can't do it and are not allowed to do so. Plus, that's at the lower levels. I don't really remember to many meleeing FO's right out the gate anyway. There's still more to learn and know about the game, we can't say that FO melee is dead. We also can't say that if your not this race, and this job, on the 3rd lunar cycle God will kill puppies. No one knows.

It's up in the air.

And aside from that, no one likes standards. I know that it seems Sega has put out an outline... But no one has to follow that outline. There's always people that can go against the grain. It's up to your dedicationt o do so I'd guess.

[ChronoTrigga]

I'm going to make a force cast. It will rock. Regardless of what anyone says.

[TheStoicOne]

On 2006-05-03 13:30, Handsock wrote:
I'm going to make a force cast. It will rock. Regardless of what anyone says.

And even if it doesn't. It is a FACT that you can switch it. Geez! Everyone is acting like your job is so definite, and final. Guess what? IT's not.

[chibiLegolas]

On 2006-05-03 04:20, Kent wrote:
Ever played a FOmar in challenge mode? Using a rod, and attacking from behind while an enemy is fixated on another person, is a good way to chip in some damage, without blowing TP on attack techniques, and it actually does damage to make it worth the button presses.

Still not as good as a Hunter, of course, but you don't avoid melee in all cases in Challenge mode. At least, not as a FOmar/l.



LOL! Yes! Exactly!
FOmar's aren't ideal in Cmode, but it sure is fun.http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
I still remember a C2 game were we found an extra saber with good % for my FOmar. And I was doing more or less as much damage as our ranger in the game. And being a FO, techs all go to me anyways. Sure in C7+ you may not be able to use the higher techs. But that's where the balance of power lies....

I too wish to remake my FOmar in PSU with a good balanced character of S/D J/Z techs AND able to use some melee weapons. So far, they seem to have some access to melee types at least.
What we don't know now are the races/class max stats. So as far as we know, even a melee'n FOnewman on PSU wouldn't be so bad. (I was look'n forward to making a newman this time around tho. I'd like some new ears for my force.)
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
Maybe they'd have some higher S/D techs that's unaccessable (or they get some bonus) compared to others that'll make up for their lack of att and def. Heck, maybe it'll make them as good as a FOmar's stats with their techs on.
Who knows...Too early to tell...




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2006-05-03 13:43 ]</font>

[physic]

well of course, we cant say yet what everything is going to be, but all we can do is speculate based on the beta, if we cant speak about what we think and what we understand, its pretty pointless to have a forum. Also our worries or ideas and questions sometimes lead testers to try stuff and take actual numbers, or compare. Anyhow the point is AT THIS TIME it seems as if off races take a hit. sure cast ata may balace their lower atp same for humans(but cast have better ata and better pow so they are a lil better, but numan?
of course people can play any class, ad it probably wont matter that much, its not like this is FFXI where your gimpness ruins their exp, well who knows maybe it will.

[Nai_Calus]

I think what the problem with you 'overpowered melee force' people is is that you're looking at it from purely a soloing standpoint in judging it as not requiring thought or skill.

Fact is, I have a melee FOmar, Zero. I've also long had a reputation for being a fairly damn decent support FOmar. Funny thing is, I often do both at the same time. And that is where the skill and difficulty comes in. Being a good support Force can be hard work if you're doing it right. Being a good support Force, while simultaneously tracking all the things you track as a Hunter? That's where the difficulty comes in. Not in being all 'lawl i smack booma offline wit saber'. That's not hard, no. Hell, offline I'm as likely as not to just cast techs because on offline PSO they do worthwhile damage, not like online where I'm better off using a Soul Banish than Rafoie because the former does more damage.

FOmars are unbalanced and godly? I think not. FOmars are a bit broken, sure, but FOmarls are slightly more broken, IMO, and it's not nearly the breakage of RAmarl or RAcast. I mean, what does a FOmar have going for him? The highest ATP of the Forces? That's like saying the worst ATA of the Rangers. L30 techs? Same as any other FO. Too bad no Resta/Anti range boost, and two of three Gi-level techs aren't very useful. Go ahead. Gifoie a room full of Zoas. I'll come use a Moon on you, you'll need it. (Now Mines and Gilchichs is another story, heh) Worst ATA in the game? Face it, you're not going to be able to do crap-all in Seabed, and barely in Ruins. FOmars frankly suck. They can hit a bit harder, but their best weaponry is hard to acquire, and the near NEED for a Resta Merge means you'll be taking damage right and left. It's frankly a pain in the ass.(And dear lord if you like being sane, don't ever START on a version of PSO with a melee FOmar. You WILL get raped.)

Broken classes? Well, how about that RAmarl? L20 techs, including the full set of S/D/J/Z. L7 Anti, same as a Force. More ATP than a FOmar. Second highest ATA in the game. Godly EVP. Access to all the awesome broken Ranger weapons, a good selection of nasty Hunter weapons, and she can support herself and if necessary a team. I've meleed with my baby little L123 RAmarl before, and it's ugly for the monsters, and much better and easier and more broken than Zero ever will be. XD She doesn't really miss, which is Zero's biggest problem. So... Yeah, melee FOing, properly, in a team, is actually somewhat difficult, whereas, say, a melee RAmarl is simply broken. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif (Zalure-special S-rank Needle and a quick change to Madam's Umbrella anyone? XD) THAT's the god-like character you're railing against. (RAcast is similarily broken, having the third highest ATP in the game, barely below a HUmar's, plus more HP and DFP than you can shake a stick at, besides the RA weapons and ATA, but he has no techs and is slightly more limited. I'd say he's second or third most broken, HUnewearl being the second or third.)

I do not WANT melee RAmarls anymore than you guys do. There is no need for something that broken. But something more like a melee FOmar isn't the broken godly mindless character you think it is. It's broken, yes, but not in favour of owning everything, more in favour of having no great advantages in anything.

And thinking of this stuff has brought me new hope on the 'it's too soon to tell' front. That example of starting as a melee FOmar because they suck so painfully hard at the beginning? Sure, the end result is a useful character that provides you something to do and contribute when nobody is getting owned and nothing new has spawned to need J/Z, but at the beginning it's like pulling teeth. You have no support techs, or very bad ones(L3 Shifta, woo! Now I can cast something useless that lasts three seconds on other people!) and you can't really use any good weapons, but you can if you really get stuck fall back on your techs, which are at that point reasonably powerful, even online... Perhaps it will be the same on PSU. At the beginning, yeah, you're screwed, I hope you enjoy suffering, but at the end you're doing alright. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Regardless, I'm still making a fruity-looking bishounen FOcast. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Specifically BECAUSE it has so much potential to suck magnificently... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Parn]

On 2006-05-03 13:30, Handsock wrote:
I'm going to make a force cast. It will rock. Regardless of what anyone says.
It does rock. I made one, and contrary to people's nitpicking over stats, it works just fine. Two casts of level 1 foie kills enemies in Linear line whether you're newman or cast. *shrug*

People don't want to be pidgeon-holed into roles, but it really looks like that's the way it is... the game really seems modeled after the basics that challenge mode provided. I'm all for it.

[DeathMachine]

Well, that's were this thing called USE comes in. Parn has seen it. When you use the ability/tech it gets stronger. If you want your HU/FO, then practice in both~master switching on the fly to make it. BALANCE IS POSSIBLE! If you keep using both, then you will be able to S/D/J/Z, switch to hunter, and rape some rappies! Simple, clean, can become efficient. Savvy?

[Parn]

You can't switch classes in the middle of a mission.

[DeathMachine]

Oh.... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif
In missions only, but free fields different; or alltogether no switching outside o' cities?

[Parn]

There are no free fields, heh. You can only change classes in town, when you are not currently in a mission.

[DeathMachine]

Awwww....That could be a problem.....Oh well. You can still be good at Hunter and Force abilities if you try.

[Alisha]

its starting to look like ffxi offers more character customization than this game. looks like my D&D style fomarl preist will die with the episode 1 and 2

[EJ]

On 2006-05-03 15:27, Ian-KunX wrote:
Good stuff Ian said. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

I agree Foamr are not godly but hell i still have fun with them more than any other character since I only use that class.

So when PSU comes out my girly looking fomar will make a return to PSU http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Sev]

You can speculate, that was a joke about paying homage to me and all that... Of course... If you still want to, I'll welcome it. Honestly though, you say that at this time it looks like being and off race takes a hit... And I haven't really seen anything that shows me it does. When you think about stat growth, yeah, I can see how you come to that thought. While you say at this time it seems that being an off race takes a hit, I say it doesn't. From what I've gathered, I haven't seen anyone on the beta actually complain about being underpowered by being a different race. I'm sure that the damage and such differs, but I haven't heard anything showing that you should stay away from being a different race for certain jobs. We probably just read things differently in the end.

Even if it looks like your forced into a role now, no one knows how it's going to work later. We still haven't seen the support and debuff techs, and as we've seen FO's get access to melee weapons. Also, although you won't get as much, you will still get growth in your other stats. Not to mention extra units that you can put into slots to improve some of your other capabilities. From the looks of it, despite all this talk about broken this and broken that... There shouldn't be anytyhing broken in PSU.

Hunters will excel in melee combat.
Rangers will excel in the use of guns and other ranged weapons.
Forces will excel in the use of Techs.

Anything else that you do outside of that is up to you. If you decide that you want to add on some ATP and ATA units, you can. It won't be that great of a boost, but it'll be a boost nonetheless. Combine that with your Tech's, and it's still completely possible to melee as a Force. It seems that there will be some Forces that decide melee isn't worth the time and will rely on their techs. Others will want to melee more frequently then others. You're not great at it, but you can do it if you want to. I never expect anyone outside of Hunters to be great at melee anyway, it doesn't mean that it's not possible.

As of now, only Force's can use techs period. There are no indications that later in the game, anyone else will be able to use them. Force's are the only class that get something truly unique to them, and as a Hunter... It doesn't really bother me at all. Make your concerns about gameplay known the ST, who knows. Maybe they'll surprisde you a little. For now though, if you wanna melee, it's not impossible.

I'm just hoping that reguardless of what we've seen or heard so far, people aren't afraid to try what they origionally intended. I don't have much of a problem, since I was going to be a Hunter type since this game was announced. Period. So I never planned on being anything other then my character. I guess it's easy for me to say this, since I won't have a problem either way. I origionally thought this game would have a system similar to what I saw in Shining Force Neo.

[physic]

Well Im prolly gonna be a hunter mainly as well, so it wont impact me much other than a lot of people being the same race and class i originally wanted to be, but for stats sake. However, it seems weird that the system as it currently is, is even less expansive than PSO. PSO's multi classes alowed for different styles of play, and differences in how you execute your job. But in PSO every class had something about it that it was better at than others in the same class, hucasts highest ATP but low ATA no healing abilities but had teh use of traps. Hucaesels had high ATA and evasion, allowing them to be better with ranged weapons and more accurate with mellee. I could go through the list but every class had some special abilities that made it different and applied its strengths in a different way. From what info we have this is no longer the case. Your Beast versus your Numan hunter, have the same possible grades, currently can wear the same armor and equip the same things, the only difference is that the beast will always have a signifigant amount more hp and ATP, you have better evade. your strengths in tap and mst wont really come in to play that often. So other than just being one because you like the ears, why would anyone be a numan? Its likely that teh beast will eb able to hit harder than you and equip better weapons earlier than you, whilst you have a couple more evasion points.
This is example can be made in every job. Its not just that his stats are better suited to teh job, its that only his stats are different. Sure, later things could change, maybe teh possibility of spells attached to weapons, or new units that vastly improve your abilities in some field. hopefully some thinsg will change or get added to or expanded. It is simply that unless someone shows otherwise, there is really no reason other than appearance that somebody would be a fobeast or a hunuman.

[chibiLegolas]

On 2006-05-03 17:25, Parn wrote:
You can't switch classes in the middle of a mission.



Really? Dammit.
Well, if it balances out the game, that's fine.
So I take that this post by oShojino (on page 7) where he/she shows us switching from HU spear level to FO spear level is in town or something?
Damit. I was hoping it was during a mission, just in a dark room somewhere.
Ah well. Thanks for clearing that up Parn.

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/4360/psu1738bb.jpg

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2006-05-04 13:08 ]</font>

[Sev]

That's what I mean though. You say that it's less expansive but you just said the differences right there. Right now, yeah, they aren't really showing up.

But Beast has the highest ATP and HP, but the lowest ATA right? Is this that much different from the HUCast of old? And do we know just how useful EVP is this time around? TAP as well? I thought there was speculation that TAP would effect the damage for your Photon Art as well, so wouldn't that mean that Numans have the highest EVP and the strongest Photon Arts? Maybe... Maybe not. I'm actually interested to see how things turn out. But I really do believe that being a different race won't make you wish otherwise, that every race will have it's strength and weakness.

Either way, despite the fact that you can get "This or That" there will be more Humans and Numans then anything. There will still be very little Casts and Beasts despite the types of things you can do with them. I honestly believe that.

[TheStoicOne]

Thats why we have room for 4 characters.

[VelosofLight]

I think there's gonna end up being a bunch of beasts, since we're all total anime-gaming nerds, and think they're sexy. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

I think I'll have one of each thing though. It's just the gender thing that's getting me... I know I'm making a female beast at least.

[RFB]

I'm not so sure. The Beasts are the least played race in the Beta... just about a 11.something %

[Sev]

I'd be surprised to see alot of Beasts actually. I know a few people that are animal/girl crazy but most people are human/elf crazy. And well... They'll see Numans, think Elf, and there ya go. I'd hope to see more Casts because when it comes down to it, Caseals seem like they'll get some of the coolest looks in the game. That's just me though. I tend to want to avoid all of the problems that can occur by being a character outside of my sex, therefore I won't go that route. Never know though, maybe I'll go against how I normally do things.

Now that I think about it though. I guess there will be alotta Beast girls with the cat-like ears.

[physic]

well it might be beacuse
A they have weird ears and cleft faces
B they have low ata, lets face it hiting like iron but missing sucks, may as well be a cast

people seeing nano may change this, but ehh may not as well

[Parn]

I have a feeling casts may pick up a lot of popularity, dependant on one factor: whether hunters and rangers are allowed to ever touch techs in the final product or not. If they can't, then the advantage fleshbags had in PSO is gone. Casts make better hunters than humans/newmans, they make the best rangers, and they can hold their own as a force just fine.

[Sev]

Being a beast would be the equivalent of being an Elvaan on FFXI. Best attack strength in the game, but you can't hit anything. My friend came up with a good example of what it's like.

"It's like being the Hulk wearing dark sunglasses at night time."

All the strength in the world but you miss alot. Then again, it would apply that it's worth it when you hit.

[physic]

yeah if ata is like it wwas before they may be better than beasts, because they have high atp and great ata, whilst beast has lowest ata. probably means they will almost as hard much more often.

it would be interesting to find out if they changes teh way some stats worked, and stats effected a higher variety of things, that may make teh other classes more usefull



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: physic on 2006-05-04 14:16 ]</font>

[Sev]

I like being a fleshie though.

Plus, did anyone figure out what TAP does yet? Is it Photon Art related? If so, that's still a good thing that flesh has over metal.

That's still the case though, we don't know if we'll ever touch techs or not. My characters always Human so I can't really go otherwise. But i'd have to agree, if I was a stat whore I'd be a Cast.

[Parn]

My main character's always human as well. They could make human the weakest race in every class in the game and I'd still play one.

[Reystradamus]

i think people should be wateva they want nobody wat class can POTENTIALLY be the best OR the worsT....everybody wanna dice up stats...just select somethin u wanna be and play the dam game.with that said...ill probably be a cast(LOL)...but i like the whole robot metallic feel...thas it...not cuzz of stats.

[Neith]

Heh, the recent information on Nanoblasts has converted me back to wanting to play a Beast http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Nanoblasting sounds like it could potentially be extremely useful (taking enemy hits while transformed, distracting from the rest of the party) Having said this, I'm not in the Beta test, so I'm not sure.

We all have 4 character slots ( i think ) anyway, so it gives us room to experiment a bit.

[Kupi]

On 2006-05-04 14:16, Sev wrote:
Plus, did anyone figure out what TAP does yet? Is it Photon Art related? If so, that's still a good thing that flesh has over metal.



Considering that Forces have the best TAP and rely so heavily on their Photon Arts (Techniques), I'd say that TAP is very likely to be Photon Art related.

Which brings up an interesting question: just how much extra damage do you think a Newman Force would get out of a Hunter weapon's P-Arts? Interesting concept...

[physic]

lets not jump teh gun, no one has actually done anything that leads them to believe TAP effects PAs yet

[Kupi]

Yeah, I was about to edit out that little outburst. >_O Darn this board's activity level!

[Reystradamus]

im not really all that impressed with the nanoblast...they should include another class like some serpent type men or somethin that would be hot...

[Sev]

Right, no jumping the gun but it's actually possible. If that's the case, then maybe it won't be so bad after all. Especially since when you think about units, you can only get MST or TAP. Why would they make a Hunter or a Ranger have a head unit for one or the other if they have no effects on them at all?

Interesting eh?

[Kupi]

Not to sound like I haven't learned my lesson, but I'd like to explain my original reasoning. I'd assumed that "Photon Arts" is the catch-call name for Skills, Bullets, and Techniques. Therefore, if Techniques benefit from higher TAP (as evidenced by the fact that Forces get an absurdly high rating in it, and the stereotypical casters, Newmen, get a boost in it), it stands to reason that TAP might also benefit Skills and Bullets. Same thing, different weapon sets. The reason this might not be so is the fact that TAP is "Technique" Attack Power, which correlates exactly to only one of the three types of Photon Art.

So, yes, while it would make an interesting balance mechanic (Beasts and Casts rely more on their regular attacks while Humans and Newmen rely more on their Photon Arts as meleers), the evidence isn't in favor of that interpretation just yet. Sorry for the confusion.

[TheStoicOne]

Well since in this game what used to be called techniques are now called technics, when they (ST) uses the word technique (in game) it means the holistic Bullets,skills, and technics combined...maybe?