Dark Force...or Dark Falz...?

[Draktyr]

I'm curious as to which name fans prefer...Dark FALZ, of the traditional Dark FORCE.

Being as I started my Phantasy Star experience when PSII came out, I was accustomed to Dark Force. It wasn't until I played 2, that I tried the first PS. I finished 2 before 1, and was surprised at, what I thought at the time anyway, was a glaring translation error. Dark Phallus, Falz, whatever...sounded too dorky for my liking, so I opted to follow the series as it continued...with Dark Force as the final menace.

When PSO came out, and I found out that they chose Falz over Force, I was alittle bit taken aback. I know that Sega wanted the actual name more properly translated to "Engrish", but I still craved Force.

I think from now on, it'll be Falz...but I will always consider myself a Dark Force fan.....

Now....lemme hear what you all think about what your preference is! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

-Drak

[PrinceBrightstar]

think of it like i do. PSO is an alternate dimension from the PS series and everything will be ok

[Draktyr]

That's a great way to look at it, Jonathan! So we'll include Phantasy Star 1 in that universe, okay? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

-Drak

[RavenTW]

I reiterate, it sucks that the only two connections between PS and PSO are newmans and DF.

It's PHALLUS! No, j/k. I prefer Falz myself, since Force just doesn't sound like him. You have to understand, DF (We'll just leave it at that)isn't the REAL antagonist in these games, only in 1, and maybe 3 (and PSO). When he is the real baddie, I prefer to call him Force, but when he gives way to some other menace (read: Olga Flow), Falz tends to give him a less evil demeanor, and more of a mis-understood one. It's not his fault that he HAS to cause terror until he dies, only to come back in a millinium and do it again! I'll bet you he himself is tired of it!

anyway, that's my opinion. I also don't beleive in PSO being an alternate universe. It's entirely possible though. *calls Yuji Naka and asks him what he thinks*

[Draktyr]

True....very true. DF is probably at home, sleeping peacefully....then his alarm goes off. He wants to hit "snooze", but since he has been sleeping for a millenium, he is forced to get up. Angered, he has to take it out on someone...why not the innocent inhabitants of the Algo Star System...or how about that new colony they set up on Ragol....

The other thing about DF, is he must have many incarnations....or did I mean clones of himself. How could he be terrorizing the Algo populace and other areas far away...and...is he just a manifestation of evil and follows trouble wherever it goes?

DF:"Are we there, yet?"
Destiny:"Nope, and if you ask me one more time, I am gonna Megid your friggin ass back to Mota before you can say Alys Brangwin!"
DF:"But where are we going?"
Destiny:"There....that little planet of colonists looks good, we'll stop there!"

It's entirely possible that DF is just an appendage of The Profound Darkness from End of the Millenium...bu we may never know for sure.....oh well.....

-Drak

[Kalbelgarion]

*Shrug* It depends on what monster is being fought. If it's an evil spirit that needs a body to wreck havoc (PS1, PSO), than it's specifically called a "Dark Falz". If it's a tall, dark, lurking and hulking monster with a real body (PS2, PS3, PS4), then it's called a "Dark Force". They are two sperate "species", methinks.

[Draktyr]

Kalbelgarion....that has to be one of the most unique descriptions of what DF could be! I commene you for that analysis....it could be entirely true...or just a translation error after all. Until someone comes up with a better idea, Kalbelgarion gets my vote for DF's incarnation opinion!

-Drak

[ABDUR101]

Think of Dark Falz as an eternal animal. It's not that it just merely comes out every millenia to cause havoc, but it's reincarnated, and it's basic instinct is of destruction.

And reincarnation doesn't necessarily mean you remember a past life, he's just being born again and doing what comes natural, so his actions aren't exactly getting "old" everytime he is reborn, he's just merely doing what comes natural.

As for where he revives at. The ancient spaceships in PSO carried his remains to a far off planet, far away from their home world so he could'nt cause them any further problems. Imagine being a culture that has a demon reincarnate every millenium, eventually when you had the technology and power to do so, you'd just capture it and send it away instead of just killing it again and again only to have it revive over time.

Thus, Dark Falz is most likely an ancient life form thats soul purpose is destruction, and it's very possible that there are various Dark Falz spread all through the PS universe.

To capture one would be quite the feat =o

[BWS-1]

Wasn't DARK FALZ called, well, "FALZ" because back in the 8-bit time, they could only write 4 letter words as the character's names and that they kept it that way on PSO to keep it "ol skool"?

[PrinceBrightstar]

Looks like i'm ripping the idea of DF off as i continue working on my Warcraft III & movie scripts The Dragon of Evil part I & II. God sets dragon on earth (alt dimension) to test humans. it revives in 1000 years. 2nd time, humans win by throwing him into a black hole (CAUSE THEY HAVE THE DARN TECHNOLOGY TO DO IT)

[Agent_Reav]

Isn't DF evil and malice incarnate? So basically he cannot be destroyed so long as evil exists somewhere in the universe... And since humans are inherently wicked he will always appear near them, wherever they may go. So in essence DF cannot be defeated unless every individual is pure of heart? Ack... confused.

[BWS-1]

On 2002-10-10 21:42, Agent_Reav wrote:
So in essence DF cannot be defeated unless every individual is pure of heart? Ack... confused.



Here's a more simple solution:

Kill everyone. There shall be no more evil.

[Draktyr]

Well, BWS-1...I think you're missing the point...LOL. J/K..good idea, tho..kill evil, dispense with evil, right?

Side note to you all: GREAT interpretations as to DF's motives and appearances...but one problem...I kinda wanted to hear what name you all preferred in the PS universe....If ya'll wouldn't mind adding that to your ideas, I'd appreciate it! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Now....on with the posts!!! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

-Drak

[Agent_Reav]

Dark Falz sounds better to me. Dark Force is too Star Wars-ish IMO.

[ABDUR101]

Dark Falz for me too, just sounds right, and it's whats in my head from playing so long =X

[RavenTW]

On 2002-10-10 19:05, Kalbelgarion wrote:
*Shrug* It depends on what monster is being fought. If it's an evil spirit that needs a body to wreck havoc (PS1, PSO), than it's specifically called a "Dark Falz". If it's a tall, dark, lurking and hulking monster with a real body (PS2, PS3, PS4), then it's called a "Dark Force". They are two sperate "species", methinks.



But DF took control of a body in PS4! He joins your team, then becomes DF(if I remember correctly, correct me if I'm wrong). I don't know about PS2, but in PS3 he was trying to escape his lava tomb or somthing like that.

[Kalbelgarion]

In PS4, the third Dark Force you fought was a monster, and had a body. He didn't pocess anyone. He just changed form from a giant monster, to the form of a human (Seth), then back to his monster form. He certainly wasn't a spirit, like all the Dark Falzes are.

In PSIII, There was a monster, Dark Force, that had an actuall, body, too. He was phisically pinned down, underwater, by a legendary sword. Your character...accidently...picked up the sword and freed him.

I'm glad that some of you like my theory. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Draktyr]

I'm glad you guys all have such a good memory about the PS series..some things I almost forgot. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

We must remember that in PS4, Dark Force inhabited several incarnations; five to be exact. There was the one controlled by Zio, the one merged with the space station, the spider-like one, the one disguised as Seth and ProPhallus. The actual baddie was The Profound Darkness, which is why I think DF is just an appendage to this true form that can reach any part of the universe at any time.

Sorry if I rambled abit there.....

-Drak

[Kupi]

I'm with Drak on that one. You didn't fight Dark Force/Falz five times, you fought five Dark Force/Falz's. If I may spoil PS4's plot for those who haven't played it, it's explained that Parma/Palma's destrcution opened the gate for the Profound Darkness to slip through. Hence why Dark Falz/Force continued to reappear. In all honestly, I think that Dark Falz/Force is just a very weak Profound Darkness. Given enough time (which the heroes of the PS games never gave it), they'd all eventually converge into Profound Darkness.

Think of it this way: imagine PD as a bucket of water. PD is the water, the bucket is the seal that... I think it was called the Great Light?... put on PD. Punch a hole in the bucket, though, and the water slowly starts to spill out. What you get on the ground is Dark Falz/Force. It keeps getting bigger unless you... I dunno, blow it up or evaporate it or chuck it back in the bucket. Ultimately, the entire mass of water's back on the ground. If you followed that example, go eat a cookie.

So maybe, and this is purely hypothetical, there are multiple escape points for the Profound Darkness. Perhaps Algo isn't the only star system that's sealed the big evil thing up, and Dark Force/Falz appears there as well. Given the "leak" example as well, a Dark Falz/Force could be contained... for a bit.

As for which one works better? Well, I like Dark Force, myself. But, in PSO's continuity, a Force is a magician. If it were called Dark Force here, the end boss would sound like it was a psychotic FOnewm. Anyway, let the debate rage on. ^_^

[Ness]

I perfer Dark Falz because that's the only one I knew about.

[Draktyr]

Jaw is haging open...

Kupi...I am shocked......that was the COOLEST description of DF/PD I have EVER heard. It actually made me go..."Hey...that might be true!".

I'm also glad that I am not the only PS fan out there that likes Dark Force over Falz. I dunno...maybe the fact that my early gaming days were saturated with Force instead of Falz has me brainwashed...hmmmmm.

Anyway...thinking that a "bucket" is all that is holding DF/PD at bay is freaky....maybe we the heroes should look into a garbage dumpster or something! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

-Drak

[Kupi]

Thanks, Drak. ^_^

Well, Le Roof *did* mention that Profound Darkness was "sealed" in another dimension. "Sealed" doesn't have to mean that it got put in a room and the door was locked. It could mean "contained" in the bucket sense... it'll spill out as soon as there's an opening. The only real variable is the rate at which is does so... hence, Dark Force/Falz, a miniature Perfect Darkness. It's simply a lesser degree of a being of hate.

[Draktyr]

No problem, Kupi. Great thinking should always be commended

Being as we didn't see the full potential or true form of The Profound Darkness, we can assume it is an entity of unbelievable immense size and power.

Maybe someday Sega will expand upon this thought and we'll actually see PD in it's sheer majesty...unless his form is entirely too godlike for humans to witness.....

Hmmm......maybe someday.....

-Drak



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Draktyr on 2002-10-11 16:56 ]</font>

[HC82]

I prefer force. It better fits it's form. Being that it's a Dark entity and all. A malicious conciousness.
Falz sounds akward.

Although after how some of the PS developers tried to piece PS1-2 and 4 together, they really brought down the characters of PS2. The supposed time frame they created to make PS4 fit with the earlier PS games IMO ruined the PS2 charcaters. Alot of the events in the time frame don't even occur in PS2, and it totally downplays the plight of the characters in PS2, almost making there journey pointless.

As a result my respect for the PS storyline has diminished after reading the timeline. I still like the series, but i'll consider PS1-2 the classics, everything else is just someone who wrote up a storyline and missed a few plot holes, then tried really hard to cover them up.

With all that said, this whole falz, force thing maybe has less to due with a deep storyline and more to due with plotholes and translation errors that were brought into the mix, then incorporated into the story.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HC82 on 2002-10-11 22:14 ]</font>

[Kupi]

You may be on to something with the "entirely too godlike" line. Remember, in PS4, it took some celestial equipment just for a couple humans to survive in the same dimension that the Profound Darkness was sealed in. If my "bucket" situation is true, then that means it took a massively powerful holy helmet just for a human to survive PD's presense, much less its actual attacks. Assuming that PSO takes place somewhere around PS3 (which I admittedly haven't played to any great extent), that would mean that there's nobody close to able to take on Profound Darkness yet.

I agree with the translation error statement, though... the series was meant to be continuitous, and the name needs to remain constant.

[Draktyr]

Hail Kupi and HC82! The three of us think too much alike....should we be scared? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

You two have put into words what my deepest complaints about PS storyline continuity!

Kupi....If I remember right, PS4 took place a millenia after 3 (just a guess, as you find shattered hull fragments of the fleet that followed the Alisa III out of the Algo system in between 2 and 3.). Strangely, the intro story to 4 reveals it's actually taking place 1000 years after 2....as it tells about Mother Brain's malfunction and defeat...thn it says; "1000 years later..."

The timeline of the series is alittle skewed....I admit, but Sega still snagged me for life with the encompassing story and characters!

I always loved the Lunar series...I thought just the two games were competition for all the Final Fantasy titles, still do. Then I reassesed the PS series. Those 4 titles rival, in story and characters, the Lunar and FF collection...am I wrong? I loved all 4 PS games (and PSO), but can anyone honestly say they loved ALL the Final Fantasies??

Anyway, this rant is going out there, so I will end now....on a side not, Kupi....love the thought behind your PD theory!

-Drak



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Draktyr on 2002-10-12 11:56 ]</font>

[PrinceBrightstar]

they say the simplest life form is the strongest. perhaps it'll look like a huge slime in the end. DF and PD saw pictures on their way to Algo and Ragol

[Draktyr]

Good point, Jonathan! What if The Profound Darkness really was just a slimy pile of goo? At the end of PS4, we saw several of it's forms....some were nasty as hell, but I feel we didn't see it as it's true self during that battle!

The Profound Darkness may just assimilate (not like the Borg, of course) what it feels it most needs to as to strike fear in those it terrorizes.

We may never know....but these past few posts have raised some interesting theories!

-Drak

[Kalbelgarion]

Actually, the timeline of the PS series is fair concrete (Well, except for PSO...)

-PS1 happens
-PS2 happens (We're given the year AW: 1286, and the fact that it's 1000 years after PS1)
-PS3 happens (We're given the fact that it's about 1000 years after PS2)
-PS4 happens (We're given the year AW: 2286, and the fact that it's 1000 years after PS2)

So the year in PS1 is AW 286, then PS2 happens in AW 1286, PS3 happens around AW 2286 (probably a few years before), and PS4 happens in AW 2286. Also, the Hunter's Guild song in PSO is titled "Crossing: 3086", which could very well be the year that PSO takes place. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I think that ol' PDarky sends out her Dark Forces in an attempt to destroy one of the planets that keeps her sealed. In PS2, she sends one out to corrupt the Earthmen, who in turn destroy Palm. In PS4, she sends one to Kuran to destroy Mota, one to the Gubrak Tower to destroy Dezo, and one to get the Aero Prism to destroy Rykros.

Everyone here has such cool ideas. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Gee, all this talk makes me want to put my PSO Theories page on the 'net, where I try to explain EVERYTHING about PSO connection to the rest of the series. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Parn]

Er one correction Kal... PS4 takes place in AW 2284, not 2286. =P

[Kalbelgarion]

D'oh! Hey, what's two years between facts, right? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Thanks for the correction.

[HiroTristar]

=D!

Personally, I don't mind Falz or Force. I haven't played any of the old PS games to an extent, but I'm simply used to Falz. Anyway.

Kupi! You're genius!

I've never played any of the old PS games to an extent (as already mentioned), but that theory has sparked tons of ideas in my mind!

Do you mind if I implement your theory into my fanfic when I start working on it?

[MajeenYouso]

Honestly, I don't mind using either name.. Don't really know any "Background" info on either. But, I like "Falz" better for some odd reason. Ah well.

Kupi! I love your theory! I've only played a few hours with the old PS games (Really got into PS4), and your theory is just genious. I really love it! I LOVE YO-- .. You heard nothing.

(Cough, Woo, Post 8...)

[Draktyr]

There we have it....Kalbelgarion and Kupi appear to have the coolest theories out there so far!

BTW, Thanks for the timeline lesson, Kalbelgarion, I can't believe how much of the seires timeline I actually forgot! Thanks for jogging my memory!

And it looks like we have a mixed bag toward Falz or Force..that's cool. I really enjoy hearing all your reasons behind favorites (although most of them stem from "never have played the originals", which is all good!), they shed some light on the gaming communities acceptance of the translation errors Sega made so many years ago. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Force...or Falz, I think that particualr baddie will be the thorn in our proverbial sides for some time to come....but isn;t that where the fun lies...?

-Drak

[Kupi]

Wow. I'm not used to this much commendation. O_o *makes sure to keep valve on ego open to keep it from inflating*

Sure, go ahead and put my theory into a fanfic. I'd be glad to know that I'm contributing to the PSO universe... which reminds me, I've got to work on my own fanfiction some. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Lowe_Brandophsky]

Excellent theory. We will storm the creators of PS and force it upon them. If they refuse, well.. we can go get bagles afterwards, I guess.

[Draktyr]

Good idea, Lowe...and since you're new here, you get to buy them bagels! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

J/K...welcome tho! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

-Drak

[MajeenYouso]

Ooh, Ooh, BAGLES! n.n And go to Starbucks and get me a Frappuccino!

[Draktyr]

....And while your at it....I could use a Jamba Juice....only if ya want tho!

-Drak

[RavenTW]

On 2002-10-11 12:44, Kupi wrote:
I'm with Drak on that one. You didn't fight Dark Force/Falz five times, you fought five Dark Force/Falz's. If I may spoil PS4's plot for those who haven't played it, it's explained that Parma/Palma's destrcution opened the gate for the Profound Darkness to slip through. Hence why Dark Falz/Force continued to reappear. In all honestly, I think that Dark Falz/Force is just a very weak Profound Darkness. Given enough time (which the heroes of the PS games never gave it), they'd all eventually converge into Profound Darkness.

Think of it this way: imagine PD as a bucket of water. PD is the water, the bucket is the seal that... I think it was called the Great Light?... put on PD. Punch a hole in the bucket, though, and the water slowly starts to spill out. What you get on the ground is Dark Falz/Force. It keeps getting bigger unless you... I dunno, blow it up or evaporate it or chuck it back in the bucket. Ultimately, the entire mass of water's back on the ground. If you followed that example, go eat a cookie.

So maybe, and this is purely hypothetical, there are multiple escape points for the Profound Darkness. Perhaps Algo isn't the only star system that's sealed the big evil thing up, and Dark Force/Falz appears there as well. Given the "leak" example as well, a Dark Falz/Force could be contained... for a bit.

As for which one works better? Well, I like Dark Force, myself. But, in PSO's continuity, a Force is a magician. If it were called Dark Force here, the end boss would sound like it was a psychotic FOnewm. Anyway, let the debate rage on. ^_^



It IS a convincing theory, but I prefer not to think of it that way. ST never really made a truth about this, they just made the fact that Force/Falz/Phallus was a big evil guy and the Profound Darkness was the real evil, once you see the big picture.

Therefore, I prefer to think of DF as just an evil loner. I don't have any evidence to my idea, I'm just entitled to my own opinion, and, well...there it is.

[Draktyr]

Yes, there it is, Raven...

No, really...you are fuly entitled to your own opinion, and it could be completely justified and true.

Unfortunately, we may never find out.....but maybe someday, eh? Cool idea, nonetheless! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

BTW...since Ep1&2 contain some new content...I was reading the track names off the soundtrack at www.gamemusic.com, and it said episode 2 contains a new intro AND ending....any word on if you finally get to save Rico....or does she do her little Peter Pan thing again and ditch you?

-Drak

[RavenTW]

MUST POST TO NO LONGER HAVE EVIL POST COUNT!

Well, at least I didn't get flamed with my statement. I beleive Rico was saved in v2, due to the fact that if you used the URAENDING cheat to see the ending, you saw a picture of her with her dad training in the spaceship sim. But I could be wrong.

[Draktyr]

At least you didn't get flamed by your statement....who are you referring to, Raven?

Also, yeah, I did see that ending with Rico and her father...but you only get it if you type URAENDING..I think. What I really want is an actual ending for your particular character.

I know it's alot to ask of Sega...but hey, it'd be cool, right? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


-Drak

[Nidarrock]

This is very interesting. I've only played PS2 for a very short bit, my bad. With Kalbelgarion's theory I feel Force should be the evil spirit and Falz when it has a body. But that's just my opinion. "Nothing is real until you've named it. Given it limits." Here's my question though.

In PSO we fight three "forms" of DF, not including the razor blade darvants. When DF changes from the second form to the third, does the old body die and DF creates a new one...or does DF "mutate"/"evolve" the current body?

I'm sure I've read the answer within these posts but I'm being a dummy today. Also I prefer Falz.

[Kupi]

I think the current body's mutating. In contrast, PS4's Forces were all separate entities, but here it seems seems to be truly destroyed. Note that in PS4, when you killed it it evaporated. In PSO, we don't see that happen until the end of the last form. In the other forms it just changes color and shape.

[Draktyr]

You both have good points, guys. I look at it like this:

Force/Falz, as we have possibly surmounted earlier, is an appendage/smaller variation of The Profound Darkness. Therefore, The Profound Darkness has a true form we have yet to witness, so logic would dictate that Force/Falz is an ever-changing entity that we have seen in many forms. As you all may have noticed, each form is different in itself, but they all have a small detail here or there that is reminiscent of the previous incarnation(s).

As to whether DF is "evolving" or "mutating", I would have say it's possibly neither, in that it is different variations, not actual transformations. Go back to the "Bucket" theory (which I still admit, I love that idea!), The Profound Darkness is slowly leaking into various locales in the universe; The Algo Star System, The Alisa III, the different destinations in 4 and also, the Ruins on Ragol. Now, as It is leaking out, It's numerous "tenticles" are seperate from each other, hence the drastically changed appearances. Since DF is an offshoot of TPD, there is no definate set appearance It needs to conform to. Also, as TPD is trying, probably very hard, to maintain Itself outside It's dimension, it can't (or won't) be able to actively monitor the DF variants, causing thier appearances to stagger. This may just be lunatic ramblings, or I may be on to something....if not, I apologize for my babbling. That is my particular theory....

-Drak



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Draktyr on 2002-10-18 16:12 ]</font>