Theory/Question on the new % system.

[Kupi]

If anyone else has seen some of the new weapons in GCN PSO, you'll have noticed that some of them have %s all the way up to 90%. This might seem to seriously imbalance Hunters and Rangers, but I have a "what if" that would actually weaken them to an extent, given the right circumstances. To explain the difference, though, let's examine the currect % system.

By my experience, the % of a weapon signifies an increase in your ATP against that particular class of enemy. So, if a weapon is 30% Native and your ATP (with the weapon included) is 500, then your ATP against Natives is 650 with that weapon. This explains why, say, a Brand with 30% A. Beast does more damage than a Buster with no %. I did some calculations with a HUmar, and sure enough adding 30% to his ATP (for the 30% A. Beast Brand)produced a value just above his ATP with the Buster... and the damage produced showed a similar reaction: just barely more damage with the Brand than the Buster.

So, that understood, how does the 90% maximum % harm the fighters? Here's the "what if:" what if the % is now the amount of additional damage you do? Using Ultimate as the example, it's hard to get anything above 0 damage when you're first starting out. Under the old % system, however, a 50% weapon could make you start doing rather good damage, assuming your ATA is high enough to hit. Under the 90% max system, however, you'd always do 0 damage, even with 90% on your weapon... because you're getting 90% more of 0.

Phew... I think I blathered on a bit there. Kudos to anyone who followed that from start to finish. ^_^

(As for "Theory/Question," the theory is what's above. The question is if anyone who's imported can confirm or disprove this. I'd love to know!)

P.S. Is it just me, or am I on a posting rampage recently, by my standards? Two new topics, and at least 10 posts in other peoples'...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kupi on 2002-10-13 13:04 ]</font>

[Parn]

The original calculation for %s went something like this:

Character ATP + Weapon ATP + Weapon %(Character ATP + Weapon ATP) = Total Damage Potential


Under the new formula, it is more like this:

Character ATP + Weapon ATP + (Weapon % x Weapon ATP) = Total Damage Potential


Let's assume character ATP is 500, and the weapon adds 200 ATP, and you have a weapon with 50% Native, attacking monsters in the forest.

Under the original formula, throw the numbers in:

500 + 200 + .50(500+200) = 700 + .50(700) = 700 + 350 = 1050


Under the new formula:

500 + 200 + .50(200) = 700 + 100 = 800


That's a 250 damage potential difference. Now, let's factor in higher numbers for a stronger character. Remember how hunters were ridiculously overpowered with %s? Let's assume 1000 ATP on a hunter with a weapon giving 500 ATP, and 50% native again in the ultimate forest:

1000 + 500 + .50(1000 + 500) = 1500 + .50(1500) = 1500 + 750 = 2250


Under the new formula:

1000 + 500 + .50(500) = 1500 + 250 = 1750


That's a 500 damage potential difference. As your stats get higher, the more things became unbalanced, which led to the overpowered hunters in version 2. Note that the above totally neglects shifta and deband (though it also ignores enemy defense).

The new formula balances things a great deal. However, there is one drawback... %s do not affect weapons such as mechguns, since the damage difference would be nearly unnoticable.

I haven't looked into how much shifta/deband has changed, yet.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2002-10-13 15:06 ]</font>

[Danger_Girl]

Hmmmm...this is too much a math thing for sweet little me.

Anyway, I heard once that there will be mobs in the same place vulneralbe and resistant to different attacks. In other words, one creature on that new beach level might be vulnerable to native, and the one next to it is vulnerable to A. beast. That would mean alot of switching weapons around.

I'm way to lazy for that.

I don't know if that is true or not, but I never miss an opertunity to possibly spread some mis-information around.

[Davion]

From what I've seen, Ah King (A Mod at Ragol.com) has found a Bravace with 100% against A-Beast. Imagine finding a Spirit Calibur with 100% Hit...

[Wewt]

I find it strange that they revamped photon percentages for monsters, but didn't change it for Hit. 10% hit still gives a 10 ATA boost...

[Kupi]

Ah, I see. Danger Girl, here it is in non-mathematical terms: the old way, the % on a weapon gave you extra ATP to certain enemies based on your total ATP (character's base combined with the weapon's). Now, the % on a weapon makes only the weapon have more ATP based on the %. Understand?

Thanks for clearing that up, Parn. ^_^

[HC82]

Pretty much from what parn and jupi have stated, where as the orginal weapon percents modified your atp and weapons atp, the new percents only modify your weapons atp. Making for a FAR more balanced percent system.

So finding rare weapons with high ATP will actually make quite a deal when compared to a lower atp weapon with high percents.

Pretty much a 100% weapon will double the weapons atp. But since the brunt of your atp comes from shifta and your base atp, high weapon percents aren't so overpowering now.

1000 base atp, 500 atp weapon with 100% would make for a 2000 atp attack. Where as in the older PSO, a 1000 base atp, 500 atp weapon with 60% would make for a 2400 atp attack. It would take a 900 atp weapon with 100% to equal a 500 atp weapon with 60%(base atp of 1000, GC&DC respectively).

Also means that weapons with huge increases in atp will get more out of a high percentage.

[lugus]

On 2002-10-13 21:32, Danger_Girl wrote:
Hmmmm...this is too much a math thing for sweet little me.

Anyway, I heard once that there will be mobs in the same place vulneralbe and resistant to different attacks. In other words, one creature on that new beach level might be vulnerable to native, and the one next to it is vulnerable to A. beast. That would mean alot of switching weapons around.

I'm way to lazy for that.

I don't know if that is true or not, but I never miss an opertunity to possibly spread some mis-information around.



Its true. In the VR levels there are Native, Dark, A Beast, and Machine monsters. While on Gal Da Val there are Native, A Beast, and Machine.

[Lileya]

Just to let everyone know how the new system is awesome, with a bloody art 55% on mines in vhard I do 90 dmg with normal attack, with one with 0% on mines in vhard , I do 80 dmg with normal attack!

OMG THE NEW % SYSTEM IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!11111111 *sarcasm*

[HC82]

Yea well, it enhances only the weapons power. So if you want the best results, it will be must noticable on higher atp weapons. So a weaker version of a weapon won't show a great damage increase. Not too down play weak atp weapons, since they tend to hit numerous times(ie. mechs).

Personally hunters weapons were waaaaaay too over powered in the older PSOs. Anything over 45% in any of the PSOs was overkill, since most enemies died in one combo.

[Lileya]

On 2002-11-01 19:42, HC82 wrote:

Personally hunters weapons were waaaaaay too over powered in the older PSOs. Anything over 45% in any of the PSOs was overkill, since most enemies died in one combo.



True but, it makes now % on v1 weapons totally worthless! =/ It seems it will become effective when the weapon add more than like 400 atp, and weapons adding that much are kind of rare in ep. 1 and 2...

[WeaponX3523]

I kind of like it. Makes me feel my rares will be more valuable since percentage isn't as important unless you get something well over 60%.

[VulpesMundi]

On 2002-11-01 20:16, Mrs_Rohrbach wrote:
True but, it makes now % on v1 weapons totally worthless! =/ It seems it will become effective when the weapon add more than like 400 atp, and weapons adding that much are kind of rare in ep. 1 and 2...


Not necessarily. From what I've seen of the weapons in E1&2 (looking mostly at the Ragol.com database), almost everything from ver.1 & 2 has completely reworked stats. The ver.1 special weapons are no longer worthless. From what a friend told me they hit just as well as any ver.2 or new E1&2 weapon, even in Ultimate mode. You'll be hard pressed to find any weapons with more than 40 ATA. The enemy EVP rates have drastically changed since ver.2, as well as their resistances. And from what I hear, so have their DFP rates. The only real increase the critters have is HP. They generally take more damage per hit from all attacks, so they have more HP to compensate.

Also keep in mind that nobody has figured out how Shifta and Zalure factor into the % calculations. I'd check myself, but I still haven't been able to play. *Grumble. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Saladwood]

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