A School's Stupidity

[Sord]

Okay, last Monday (yesterday) I get up to go to school. Sunday was shit and I have only had three hours of sleep. I am very tired as anyone would be. So I go to my first class (oral communications) and am randomly picked to go first. So I get up there and attempt to make a speech, but finally I say "I'm sorry, I just can't do this. I'm way to tired."

So I go back to my seat and lay my head down. First I feel someone throw something at my back, but my eyes are closed so I don't know who it is. Next the teacher shouts my name to scare me. I jerk but continue to ignore him. He then proceeds to move to my desk and start beating on it really hard. I just move my head and ignore this as well, then he begins mildly insult me and I tell him to "lay the fuck off." For a minute the whole class drops silent. I have never cursed in class, or ever spoken in such an authoritative tone. The teacher actually asks the class if he's heard right. They acknowledge it, and then they finally decide to continue class, finally letting me rest.

Three hours later I'm summoned to my principles office and told I have a ten day suspension. I'm fully awake now, my stimulant medicine for ADHD has kicked in. Well, at first I was worried because we only had nine days of school left and I would miss by final. Then I'm told I get to take my final exams after school on tuesday, and then my only worry is lost and I could care less what my punishment was. Then he proceeds to tell me that since this is my first suspension, I get to have my work sent home.

So I'm thinking:

1. I don't have go to school, I don't have to get up in the morning, I don't have to lug around 25lbs of books in a luggage back, I don't have to tolerate crowded halls and mindless assholes in class

2. I still get to take my finals, and I still get to do my work. My grades are good though so even if I had missed a week of work I could easily ace the final and be done with it. I hardly ever study for tests and always pass with 80-100%, when I do I get a 100%. And since I no longer have teachers jabbering away on a topics I don't need them to, I can dedicate my time to studying something I don't understand.

3. This is the best punishment EVAR! (A intended)

So anyways, they call my mom and tell her, he she really throws a wrench in the mess. I have 504, which means the school has to follow certain guidlines set by a councilour for me. I didn't know this at the time but apparently the guidline was to remove me from class if I show abnormal behaviour or appear agitated.

So apparently the teach could be to blame, but I bring up that i could have used my special hall pass to get out of the situation and go to the nurse, which was also given to me via the 504. So the teacher isn't completely to blame.

However, he still should still have:
1. not have deliberately agitated me

2. should have removed me from class from the beginning since this was definitly not my usual behaviour

3. should DEFINITLY have removed me from the class after I cursed at him

So either, A. the teacher didn't recieve the 504 notice which means the entire school administration can be blamed for bad internal communications, or B. the teacher forgot, which will definitly not look good on his records, since there are tons of 504 students in my school (2000 students total) and I wasn't the only one in my class for that matter. Since he works there, he is technically a rep of the school, so it still falls on them as well.

So anyways I get a punishment I want, and the school looks bad either way. How stupid do you think this place is?

[sprky585]

wow that sucks/is awesome at the same time, do you get to take ur finals at home? ive done that before, but my mom thought i was gonna cheat so she stood there the whole time watching me, kinda weird, but thats good that u stood up to a teacher, i dont go to that big of a school, so if one were to do that they'ed get like, shot from a sniper on top of the roof, i dunno, but yeah, ur school is pretty stupid

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sprky585 on 2006-05-16 20:31 ]</font>

[CaptainJebus]

Thats like my school. Except they usually would send me to my vice principal right away. Most of my teachers are alright withg sleeping [Too much and drug test it is] But I love when they do, I get to shove it in there faces and sleep! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Tystys]

Lucky and cursed at the same time, I see.

[Scrub]

Haha, because of something that happened at school I was almost expelled, but they decided to change it to a 30 day expulsion(and decided that if a Therapist said it was OK would be the only way I'd be allowed back in school)

Throughout that 30 days I pretty much just sat around and played video games, and went on the computer. All of my work was sent home here for me so I could do it at my leisure. Oh man it was so awesome. I wish I could just get my work sent home to me every day. D;

[Dangerous55]

Maybe you should have did the damn thing. Get used to doing things you don't want to do.

Besides, 3 hours of sleep is not that bad for only having to do a speech and go to school.

[Sord]

On 2006-05-17 16:35, Dangerous55 wrote:
Maybe you should have did the damn thing. Get used to doing things you don't want to do.

Besides, 3 hours of sleep is not that bad for only having to do a speech and go to school.




yes, because we are all going to grow up to be great orators one day who need to speek out to large crowds. pfft, yeah right. Maybe if this was a project for another subject, but no, not speech. The only reason I'm in the damn thing is it's required by the school. I'd much rather have taken Sci/Fi reading/writing for my language credit than such a dull area.

Yes, you will have to talk to people all your life, but some of us can already do that just fine. But there is a diffrence between one to a few and a whole crowd. Hell, nowadays is hard just to even get people to pay attention, and I don't want their attention. If the class worked more on a 1-1 or 1-2 or 1-3 talking basis, then yeah, it might do some good. But at a flow-in/flow-out ratio of 500 kids a year, (2000 students total during a year) I can tell you not many of them will make some grand speech. Those that plan sign up for the other electives on those areas (drama, improv, honary speech, etc.) The class is crap, plain and simple, put in place out of hopes of impressing the state with students that have a vocabulary other than their slang.

You don't need to do something you don't like because your supposed to get used to it. You DO need to do something that can be of actual common use even if you don't like it, but that class it quite plainly useless.

[Dangerous55]

On 2006-05-17 16:50, Sord wrote:

yes, because we are all going to grow up to be great orators one day who need to speek out to large crowds. pfft, yeah right. Maybe if this was a project for another subject, but no, not speech. The only reason I'm in the damn thing is it's required by the school. I'd much rather have taken Sci/Fi reading/writing for my language credit than such a dull area.

Yes, you will have to talk to people all your life, but some of us can already do that just fine. But there is a diffrence between one to a few and a whole crowd. Hell, nowadays is hard just to even get people to pay attention, and I don't want their attention. If the class worked more on a 1-1 or 1-2 or 1-3 talking basis, then yeah, it might do some good. But at a flow-in/flow-out ratio of 500 kids a year, (2000 students total during a year) I can tell you not many of them will make some grand speech. Those that plan sign up for the other electives on those areas (drama, improv, honary speech, etc.) The class is crap, plain and simple, put in place out of hopes of impressing the state with students that have a vocabulary other than their slang.

You don't need to do something you don't like because your supposed to get used to it. You DO need to do something that can be of actual common use even if you don't like it, but that class it quite plainly useless.



Hah, I remember saying stuff like that. The point is, if you want to succeed in this society you gotta do things you may think are useless.

It would have taken, what, at the most 30 minutes? Just buckle down and do it, you'll find out that was an easy thing to do. Then you're done with it, and if you have to do another, so what, it won't kill you.

Of course maybe you don't want to succeed in this society, then just fucking drop out.

Not every time you are going to make a speech is going to be a "grand speech" like Hitler in Berlin. Any profession you're going to go in it would be useful to have some experience with. I had to do one a month ago, I hate it but I did it. Don't try to be a rebel in school, it's laughable if you think about it.

[REJ-]

You got a 10 day supension for swearing at the teacher?

That's pretty extreme compared to my school. If I did that in class, I'd get a detention, or a 1 day suspension if at has happened a few times already, and if I was lucky, I could talk my way out of it. The worst punishment I've seen my school give was a 5 day suspension to someone for egging the school.

The school that I go to seems to have punishments 10x less than most schools do

..of course, it's 10x smaller than your school (or even smaller than that), and they can't afford to lose students http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

Both of our schools seem pretty messed though. LOLZ @ The best punishment EVAR!!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Sord]

On 2006-05-17 17:25, Dangerous55 wrote:

Hah, I remember saying stuff like that. The point is, if you want to succeed in this society you gotta do things you may think are useless.

It would have taken, what, at the most 30 minutes? Just buckle down and do it, you'll find out that was an easy thing to do. Then you're done with it, and if you have to do another, so what, it won't kill you.

Of course maybe you don't want to succeed in this society, then just fucking drop out.

Not every time you are going to make a speech is going to be a "grand speech" like Hitler in Berlin. Any profession you're going to go in it would be useful to have some experience with. I had to do one a month ago, I hate it but I did it. Don't try to be a rebel in school, it's laughable if you think about it.



Note to keep in mind: All caps are used as another method to emphasize text, as bolding or italicizing it would. NONE OF IT IS INTENDED AS YELLING.

1. I am no rebel, all of my grades are average or above. Under normal circumstances, I would have done it. I participate in every class, usually the first one to grasp a new concept, already know it, or sometimes be the only one that understands it (which kind of sucks because then everyone wants your help.) The fact that you call me or even suggest that I am a rebel is an insult to me. Especially on such a small basis. I never even said what made Sunday shit for me and why I was up late. So to enlighten you, here it is.

We all decided to go get pictures for mother day. �All� refers to four younger sibling, myself, and my mom. Now, two of my younger brothers, they are twins, they are severely autistic, ADHD, Bi-Polar and one of them has trouble telling right from wrong (I think it�s called PDD) They are 7, but they are bigger then ten year olds and have the mental capabilities of five year olds and down. How is this? Turns out they are also asthmatic, which means steroids, and what do you know, steroids also make all previous symptoms WORSE. Needless to say, it has probably become apparent to you what I had to deal with by now, screaming, hitting, fighting and a slew of other shit both in the store and very very long time afterwards. Oh, and obviously my other two younger sibling are going to be complaining about it the whole damn time and not helping me or my mom out in any way.

So pull your GODAMN HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS and realize that just because someone makes an act against authority, doesn�t mean they are trying to be a rebel.

2. no matter what profession you go in you will always have to talk to A FEW PEOPLE at a time NOT A LOT AT ONE TIME. Not twenty, not thirty, hell, if you get stuck in a cubicle job you might hardly talk to anyone. Once again, teaching large scale speech when small scale is so much more important is useless. I don't think it's useless, I know it is useless, unless you are specifically going into a field that does this a lot. Your not going to see an average desk jockey give a speech, you are not going to see a carpenter or plumber give a speech. The only ones who give speeches are to whole groups of people from 10 participants in audience up are

A. public representatives for companies/political parties

B. actors/DJ/talk show hosts

C. you MIGHT be faced with a large group for job promotion, but in this day in age that doesn't happen near as much. Everybody�s stats are viewed via electronics and usually A person or a few people manage interviews and human resources.

Now Algebra, Consumer Math, Grammar, basic Sciences, THOSE are courses that are applied in nearly every job, but as an every day thing as well. LARGE SCALE SPEECH DOES NOT. I don�t give a damn that they have the class, but it does piss me off we are required to take it when there are more valuable classes being taught in the same subject. There's a difference between an ignorant rebel and someone who is intelligent enough to not waste their time. I'm the latter.

Regardless, this is getting way off topic and your ignorance is beginning to piss me off. This topic was supposed to be about how schools handle supposed bad actions and the consequences for them. Not me explaining to you in grotesque detail why requiring a large scale speech class is a pointless idea when there are so many more alternatives the yield better results. While I have no right to stop you it would be much appreciated if you did not reply, as I said, you are really beginning to piss me off; and I do not wish to say anything that may get this thread locked out of anger towards you. Same goes for PMs as well.

[Firocket1690]

Hmmm, regardless of punishment, or whether or not you like it, chances are, something like that will stay on your permanent record. Leaves you something to think about, eh ?

Then again, on a personal note, I'm not too sure of how the permanent record affects life. Influences here (parents, guidance councelor, etc) says one flaw on that thing can mean my life is fucked, which I'm ... seriously going to doubt. :3

Oh, and D55, I'm not saying I have anything against the rebellious figure, but it does seem quite peculiar that people go out of their way to act like a rebel. According to others, I'm a rebel myself, but hell if I know what their standards are.

[Dangerous55]

On 2006-05-17 21:47, Sord wrote:


Note to keep in mind: All caps are used as another method to emphasize text, as bolding or italicizing it would. NONE OF IT IS INTENDED AS YELLING.

1. I am no rebel, all of my grades are average or above. Under normal circumstances, I would have done it. I participate in every class, usually the first one to grasp a new concept, already know it, or sometimes be the only one that understands it (which kind of sucks because then everyone wants your help.) The fact that you call me or even suggest that I am a rebel is an insult to me. Especially on such a small basis. I never even said what made Sunday shit for me and why I was up late. So to enlighten you, here it is.

We all decided to go get pictures for mother day. �All� refers to four younger sibling, myself, and my mom. Now, two of my younger brothers, they are twins, they are severely autistic, ADHD, Bi-Polar and one of them has trouble telling right from wrong (I think it�s called PDD) They are 7, but they are bigger then ten year olds and have the mental capabilities of five year olds and down. How is this? Turns out they are also asthmatic, which means steroids, and what do you know, steroids also make all previous symptoms WORSE. Needless to say, it has probably become apparent to you what I had to deal with by now, screaming, hitting, fighting and a slew of other shit both in the store and very very long time afterwards. Oh, and obviously my other two younger sibling are going to be complaining about it the whole damn time and not helping me or my mom out in any way.

So pull your GODAMN HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS and realize that just because someone makes an act against authority, doesn�t mean they are trying to be a rebel.

2. no matter what profession you go in you will always have to talk to A FEW PEOPLE at a time NOT A LOT AT ONE TIME. Not twenty, not thirty, hell, if you get stuck in a cubicle job you might hardly talk to anyone. Once again, teaching large scale speech when small scale is so much more important is useless. I don't think it's useless, I know it is useless, unless you are specifically going into a field that does this a lot. Your not going to see an average desk jockey give a speech, you are not going to see a carpenter or plumber give a speech. The only ones who give speeches are to whole groups of people from 10 participants in audience up are

A. public representatives for companies/political parties

B. actors/DJ/talk show hosts

C. you MIGHT be faced with a large group for job promotion, but in this day in age that doesn't happen near as much. Everybody�s stats are viewed via electronics and usually A person or a few people manage interviews and human resources.

Now Algebra, Consumer Math, Grammar, basic Sciences, THOSE are courses that are applied in nearly every job, but as an every day thing as well. LARGE SCALE SPEECH DOES NOT. I don�t give a damn that they have the class, but it does piss me off we are required to take it when there are more valuable classes being taught in the same subject. There's a difference between an ignorant rebel and someone who is intelligent enough to not waste their time. I'm the latter.

Regardless, this is getting way off topic and your ignorance is beginning to piss me off. This topic was supposed to be about how schools handle supposed bad actions and the consequences for them. Not me explaining to you in grotesque detail why requiring a large scale speech class is a pointless idea when there are so many more alternatives the yield better results. While I have no right to stop you it would be much appreciated if you did not reply, as I said, you are really beginning to piss me off; and I do not wish to say anything that may get this thread locked out of anger towards you. Same goes for PMs as well.




OK, just telling you when you get a job they won't except excuses if you are sitting and waiting to do it. I still say you should have just did it and avoided everything.

Oh yeah, don't call me ignorant because I have a different opinion.

Again, you will use speech skills in your job, you probably will make a speech or two. You'll see.

If you are so smart for not doing the speech class how come cheating the system is so great to you? Wouldnt you want to get the best education you can? I don't get it.

Shoulda did it and everything would have been avoided. Yeah I don't like to argue on here either.

[Sord]

On 2006-05-18 14:43, Dangerous55 wrote:
OK, just telling you when you get a job they won't except excuses if you are sitting and waiting to do it. I still say you should have just did it and avoided everything.

nothing to say here since this is opinion, this is your opinion and probably based on your experiances



Oh yeah, don't call me ignorant because I have a different opinion.

I never said you were ignorant FOR your opinion; I called you ignorant for forming it of a lack of knowledge, in this case you assume I'm some rebellious type based soley on one act without knowing any of my background. This was a major point made in the beggining of the last post. THAT is why you I said you had ignorance.

If you can't link an ending statement in a conclusion to it's proper location in a written document, especially when it's the FIRST thing said in the conclusion and the FIRST thing talked about regarding the topic in that document, then maybe you need to go back and take an essay class. I'm sure you won't like it, but hey, your motto seems to be to just "buckle down and do it." You sure like to say that or similar things to me.



Again, you will use speech skills in your job, you probably will make a speech or two. You'll see.

1. See underline
2. If I'm going to work 30+ years it makes a hell of a lot more sense to force me to learn something I'm going to use more of during that entire time instead of 1 or 2 moments.



If you are so smart for not doing the speech class how come cheating the system is so great to you? Wouldnt you want to get the best education you can? I don't get it.

What part of "I still get to do my work" do you not understand? I still have work sent home and have it sent in to receive credit, I still have to take my finals. The only real diffrence is a removal of teacher and school surrounding. Any thing I can't do now I have to do Tuesday afterschool when I go to take my finals. I lose nothing positive in the process.

I'm happy because I'm out of a noisy atmosphere filled with delinquints witch can't stop talking. What takes me 7 hours to complete in a school day I can get done in 2 a home. Same results, but more efficient.


Shoulda did it and everything would have been avoided. Yeah I don't like to argue on here either.

first sentence: BS. neither you or I can say anything would have been avoided. Anger and frustration naturally builds up in someone; if I hadn't done something at that point than waiting even longer and letting more annoyance pile up could end up being worse.
Likewise, something could have happened to make my day in the remainder of the class. Since it never got that far, we'll never know. As I said, neither you nor I can make that asumption and consider ourselves correct, to do so would be ignorant as you once again have the lack of a solid basis.

If you don't like to argue so much, why did you bother with another post trying to further your agruments? This is a thread started by me, so obviously, I will reply back. I have no problem with arguing, but your ignorance of deeming someone a rebel so quickly and based on little evidence is what pisses me off. That is why I was pissed off, and in the possible event you should do something of the sort again that is why I asked you to not post.

[Dangerous55]

Dude, calm down. This is a fucking internet message board. I said rebel, I didn't actually mean rebel in a Robert E. Lee kind of way. This is so ridiculous, look at this:



On 2006-05-18 15:43, Sord wrote:
As I said, neither you nor I can make that asumption and consider ourselves correct, to do so would be ignorant as you once again have the lack of a solid basis.





I can't put into words but something about how you're looking into this is making me think some particular thoughts about you as a person.

You should have did the speech.

I saw you still get to do your work, but I think you realize the teachers can offer more then you can just figure out. Actual classtime and lessons are very important.


Are you going to college? You will make many speeches there and if you tell a Prof to "lay the fuck off"...well you'll see what will happen.

If you're not going to college, well factastic why not just drop out of high school right now?

What I am trying to tell you guy is if you are in a place, be it school, work, the military. You're going to have to do things you don't want to do. So why not just bite the bullet and do what you have to do?


I'm not trying to be a dick, I don't think I am stupid, and I have seen and done alot more then you. Every one of your posts in this topic have been bitching and making excuses. You won't get shit if you do it alot and you'll work up a horrible rep.

[Solstis]

I never said you were ignorant FOR your opinion; I called you ignorant for forming it of a lack of knowledge, in this case you assume I'm some rebellious type based soley on one act without knowing any of my background. This was a major point made in the beggining of the last post. THAT is why you I said you had ignorance.


If you don't want someone to reply to a topic because of "ignorance," then make sure that you:

1. Provide all relevant information, like you would for a speech or presentations (these are common in the workplace... well... a good number of them).
2. Failing 1, don't post.
or
3. Failing 1, press "submit" and expect the worst.

Yeah, I'd be praising myself on how wonderful I was for "cheating" the system.

For a few days, at least. Then I'd wonder why the in the firey hells I did something so silly.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2006-05-19 08:40 ]</font>

[Sord]

On 2006-05-18 17:18, Dangerous55 wrote:
but I think you realize the teachers can offer more then you can just figure out. Actual classtime and lessons are very important.


I'll let everything else but this drop as you seem to have deluded a large portion of yourself in believing
that age or experiance means your correct. Granted, yes, you do make a few good points, but your singular experiance is not the world view or of the grand scheme of things, nor does the fact you are out of school show inteligence or maturity. Experiance gained isn't always experiance learned, religion, modern politics, and human psychology can all prove that. If it was, people would have learned from their mistakes a long time ago.

Anyways, the above quote is one of stupidist things I've heard when homeschooling has been proven to yeild better results more often than not. Sure, sometimes theres a tutor, and sometimes the parent teaches, but that's still one person vs 7 teachers and an entire school body. A person has a lot less to deal with and can focus on a task at hand. The main reason it is not widely practiced is because a tutor is often expensive, the program has to be paid for unlike a public school, and parents aren't around to teach or watch their kid.

Also, peoples' way of learning differ, just because you might learn better from listening to someone teach doesn't mean I will. Like I said, i can do a whole school days work in 2 hours at home. That's because I learn better by reading, which requires NOTHING BUT YOUR EYES, no teacher, no noisy students, no big ass building with crammed hallways. If I don't know a word, I consult a dictionary. If I can't get enough information, I can check for a second source in another book or the internet.

[Charmander02]

10 Days?

Little extreme dont you think?

O well, atleast you like the punishment.

[Dangerous55]

Alright, then drop out and get home schooled, prove me wrong. Or do neither, I don't care. I'm sorry but there is no way I can discuss the book alone, or learn certain types of math. Maybe you can, ok, well do it.

I'm saying I know what I'm talking about because I'm older because I used to think like you, and I changed as I aged.

Right I am sure a tudor for everyone would be great, but that isn't realistic. I do know that my mother or father could never teach me about the English Civil War. I'm saying in your position, having lessons from the teacher will warrant better grades then you sitting at home, doing the homework and playing video games.

[opaopajr]

Forensics is actually a very valuable life skill. You assume that public speaking relates only in large groups and this is all you are learning from the class. It really isn't, even though unfortunately many speech classes are taught that way. It's about proper argumentation and persuasive stylistics.

Here's a dirty little secret many angsty teens overlook, but the "popular" kids figured out waaaay back: style is important. Ideally style and substance will come together and create a devastating union. But even if the substance isn't there style can get you through a hell of a lot. In fact, one might say that in this day and age style trumps substance (but this is a jaded tangential topic). Substance is great, but you'll be hard pressed to get very far with that alone; overlooked and misunderstood genius is such a completely cliche meme as to almost be standing social law.

Speech is important, even though we often view it as a fluff class. It pushes people beyond what they'd normally do and builds confidence that they can speak in front of an audience if they have to (and you'll be surprised how often you'll have to). It teaches the finer points of presentation and how it relates to human psychology. It teaches you to manage time and space before, during, and after your presentation, how to organize facts into meaningful and digestible bits, and all under the most stressful of gazes, an audience.

So, most simply put, you're wrong.

But honestly it's your life and apparently you've been pushed to the near breaking. I've been there myself (actually worse, but let's not go there) so I can empathize with the uncharacteristic outburst. But I think you are trying to rationalize yourself into taking the wrong lesson from this. This is bad, for it cheats yourself of real growth.

A good speaker would have tried to talk to the teacher beforehand and see if something could be managed; you would have learned the Speech lesson of proper adult communication and anticipating potential problems before they reach a head. A good speaker, if given no other choice, would have made a quick aside to the audience about the current difficulties and why their speech might not give the full impact you desired; you would have learned how to draw empathy from an audience and work the room into a better state. A good speaker would, in essence, learn how to be an adult, manage intrapersonal relationships, and still play as close to a winning hand with the cards they're dealt with.

Having public fits due to poor insight and communication with your peers and superiors does nothing to help you in life; it's a habit everyone needs to be broken of as soon as humanly possible, no excuses allowed. This is why speech is important, and this is where you failed. Enjoy your punishment if you like, but if you take the wrong lesson from this, trust me, it won't end after the tenth day.

Peace.

[Shadowpawn]

On 2006-05-17 21:50, Firocket1690 wrote:


Then again, on a personal note, I'm not too sure of how the permanent record affects life. Influences here (parents, guidance councelor, etc) says one flaw on that thing can mean my life is fucked, which I'm ... seriously going to doubt. :3




It doesn't, really.