HUmars-Their True Worth (Also Inside, HUmar vs. RAmarl)

[DonRoyale]

With permission from Ryna, I'm trying this again.

Because my old topic involving ranking character classes turned into a huge flame war over the true worth of HUmars.

Therefore, I felt it was time to make a new subject exclusively on HUmars, so that people can vent without having to worry about the topic being locked over going off-topic.

While I was away, some comments about HUmars were made that I had to comment on.

@ Kef: I understand you like RAmarls, but seriously, HUmars can have Berserk weapons, too. (Even though it wouldn't be a good choice, he'd still do insane damage)

Especially when that weapon is, say, Musashi with hit%.

HUmar: 1000-1300-1300-2500-2500
RAmarl: 800-800-1500

Who did you say won now?

Honestly, it's all in the weaponry. But on PW, and boss runs (TTF mostly), RAmarl fails horribly. Sure, you have your Berserk weapon, but you don't want to be fighting Del Lillies, Merics, or bosses at range with a Berserk weapon. You'll get slaughtered very quickly.

Why? Take a HUmar holding a Charge Vulcan with uber hit%.

HUmar: 400-400-400-800-800-800-1500-1500-1500 (8100)
RAmarl: 800-800-1500 (-300 HP)

Then she gets brutally owned by stuff like Deldoggie's charge, Del Lily's screech, Dark Falz's Rabarta (which will lead to many more things), Deldoggie's beam, ect, ect.

Bosses (or mini-bosses) tend to favor sideliners. Hence why rangers are terrible at both bosses and Tower runs.

And before you go retaliating, saying that HUmars suck, sure, they fail at Ill Gill, Sil Dragon's frozen steps, Gi Gue's beams, Deldoggie's slam, Gibbles, but would you rather be instapwned by Megid, Booger Blast (Merics), or Rabarta from either Falz or Sil Dragon? Nuh uh, didn't think so.

And about your E4 equipment comment, what of us who don't play on the PC? What of us who play PSO+? Or for that matter, what of those who play the DC, where the RAmarl doesn't even exist? Who's the best class then, hmm?

And you are correct, Kef, it's all based on opinion.



On 2006-05-23 07:44, Kef wrote:
You're free to dislike RAmarl and love HUmar, but trying to say the best class in the game sucks only makes you appear like an immature fool seeking attention.

And, contradiction...



On 2006-05-22 12:33, Kef wrote:
I've said this hundreds of times, but
HUcast: 1000-1300-MISS
RAmarl: 800-800-1500
We all know who wins.



On 2006-05-22 12:33, Kef wrote:
Heavenly/Arms completely nullifies this argument.

You took the words right out of my mouth http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Now, for you people to continue your opinions. You people all seem to think HUmar sucks. He doesn't.

[Skorpius]

HUmars are just as good on a team as RAmarls. They play different roles, though, because one is a Ranger, the other is a Hunter. Anyone who attempts to argue that HUmars are weak, worthless characters have a lot more training and learning to do.

[Shar]

All I can say is, keep it realistic. A HUmar cannot do 1000-1300-1300-2500-2500 with a Musashi, not even with SDJZ30. Maybe with SD82, yes. But then the RAmarl would be more powerful as well. And I think Kef just took a 3 hit combo for an example.

[whiteninja]

On 2006-05-25 16:01, SereneShadows wrote:
but seriously, HUmars can have Berserk weapons, too. (Even though it wouldn't be a good choice, he'd still do insane damage)
Say what?
- 45 hit Diska of Braveman
- 40 hit Beserk Calibur
- 15 hit Mushashi (lost it to corruption >.>)
Works amazingly.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: whiteninja on 2006-05-25 16:17 ]</font>

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

On 2006-05-25 16:01, SereneShadows wrote:
Why? Take a HUmar holding a Charge Vulcan with uber hit%.

Bosses (or mini-bosses) tend to favor sideliners. Hence why rangers are terrible at both bosses and Tower runs.

Frozen Shooter is the best thing a fleshie team can have in Towers and against mini bosses.

Hello?

HUmar can run up to an Ill Gill, Gibbles, any of the giant flower bosses and die horribly even after he throws up a lv15 Jellen and tries to combo his Charge mech 50 hit series before getting a one hit KO from the enemy not being immobilized.

HUmar needs another player to help him with this.

Such as a Cast/Caseal with Freeze traps, RAnger with Frozen Shooter, or unlikely for 99% of the PSO population, his own S-Ranks with Blizzard/Arrest/Jellen/Zalure Specials or a Meteor Cudgel/Red Sword/etc..



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HAYABUSA-FMW- on 2006-05-25 17:24 ]</font>

[Blitzkommando]

Make identical comparisons. Charge Vulcans to Charge Vulcans for example. When doing this RAmarl, obviously, has a better chance of hitting all nine times over the HUmar. But realistically, neither will likely hit all nine times. In personal experience with my RAmarls I tend to do Hard-Special-Special with charge weapons and it tends to hit 7-9 out of the 9 times depending on enemy and hit percent. Of course, I tend to apply that formula to all charge weapons to all classes that I use charge weapons with, as in hunters and rangers. For forces I tend to use Hard-Hard-Special to get similar results.

I'm not arguing one way or another, I just believe neither side has made fair comparisons as it is rather difficult to compare two entirely different classes of characters fairly. Both have extreme advantages over each other, HUmars have HP and ATP whereas RAmarls have the ATA, MST, and EVP in spades. However, simply due to equipment limitations the RAmarl makes a better Hunter than a HUmar making a Ranger. This has nothing to do with which class has 'better stats' and moreso with equipment. I cannot say for sure if this trend continued into PSOBB as I don't play PSOBB and am most familiar with PSOGC but it seems to have continued just from reading the equipment lists and stats from Episode IV.

Really though it's not fair to compare them on an apples to apples scale either because of equipment limitations. Think about it this way, a HUmar has one option for a rifle, the Holy Ray. RAmarl has a huge selection of Rifles. The HUmar has a huge selection of paired swords whereas the RAmarl has... none. Does that mean that a HUmar couldn't make a decent 'ghetto Ranger' or a RAmarl a decent 'ghetto Hunter'? Not at all, players deal with the limitations and take advantage of what they do have offered. Holy Ray is an excellent rifle for non-rangers and is lackluster for rangers because there are simply more options of better weapons open for Rangers in that department but it is the only choice open for hunters.

A RAmarl is not useless in a team and neither is a HUmar. Both give different balances to the equation. Would I play as a HUmar? Absolutely not. Would I mind playing with one? Absolutely not, I played with HUmars all the time and found many of them to be excellent hunters. Simply put, HUmars aren't my style but for others they are.

Finally, arguing the mathematics of attack strength is prone to so many holes and factors it is impossible to compare two classes overall ability with a specific weapon for every area as every area gives different results. Comparing a Musashi with a Berzerk handgun is hardly equal. Both weapons have entirely different stats, accuracies, speeds, push back, 'cooling time', et cetera. A slightly better, although still horrible, comparison would've been between a Berzerk slicer and a Berzerk Sword. But, again, an unfair comparison as they require entirely different abilities to use them effectively. That brings up the final point in that the ability of a class is determined by the player not the class.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Norvekh on 2006-05-25 17:20 ]</font>

[Delfi]

Serene Shadows i am not going to quote you because your post is like huge, or else i would have done...however I can not comment on Humars - I cant say they suck and I cant say they pwn - I have never played as 1, maybe 1 day i will that is if i dont get sidetracked by PSU upon its release.
However - you said ramarls or rangers? Suk at tower? This i find totally untrue - I have both a ramar and a ramarl - Each of them can clear a tower in 15 - 20 minutes using the same weaponry, alone online and without a single death, Im talkin about east or west here and obviously not PW4.
Id like to see a humar do that i really would, somehow id think he would struggle no matter who was controlling him, of course you can prove me wrong if you like.
But personally speaking id never attempt an ulti tower with a hunter of any kind.
Also taking my Ramarl into a boss arena - I have yet to see anyone who can slaughter dark falz faster than i with my ramarl when i let rip with my 40% hit spirit vulcans, also im usually the only 1 in a team who can survive falz and have to provide the support of a fo also with my ramarl, and keep reviving people.
So no way do Ramarls fail at bosses.
In fact anyone who thinks that Ramarls fail at tower or boss runs must be in need of Extra training and i suggest they report to the hunters guild immediately. lol.
ok thats all i can say in the defence of ramarls they pwn when used correctly with the right weaponry as im sure most other characters do too - Stop dissin my ramarls or i will be forced to qoute southpark...in fact i will quote it anyway, well kinda - "Screw u guys im goin bed " lol
To hayabusa - IMO the best weapon a ranger can have in the tower and against epsilon is either his own srank rifle with demons special or a high hit% demons laser - i have both - im talkin of 3 succesful hits to kill it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Delfi on 2006-05-25 17:24 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Delfi on 2006-05-25 17:28 ]</font>

[-Crokar-]

rangers are great at about everything. but to hyabusa humars can run solo towers with out help. and again why waste time casting a stupid spell the quicker you attack the quicker it dies. i dont see why humars waste time casing that stuff. my main is a humar and ive done the ultimate towers my self before and its not that hard. but the big plant things can be a little tricky. but they dont have to be immobilized to kill em. but it is better to have them frozen or paralyzed.

[Skorpius]

On 2006-05-25 17:15, Norvekh wrote:
Finally, arguing the mathematics of attack strength is prone to so many holes and factors

http://ev.dhs.org/skorpius/damages.html

Ultimate Online Ruins Arlan. All weapons are S-Ranks with Berserk.

What is shown is HUmar using weaker, but more accurate combo strings and still doing more damage than the RAmarl using the same weapon with stronger, less accurate combo strings. The damage difference, however, is neglegable because it's so minute. HUmar is a Hunter, with less ATA and more ATP, so he uses weak/accurate attacks. RAmarl is a Ranger, ATA over ATP, so she uses stronger/inaccurate. Compensation, balance, trade off.

The comparisons are not to debunk RAmarls, but to debunk the stale sterotype that HUmar is the worst class to chose. It's one thing to give reasons why you'd rather not choose something, that's perfectly fine. Using "facts' that aren't even accurate to justify and defend yourself is silly.

"I don't like HUmar because he is the worst class in the game. Below average at everything! Worthless on a team."

Common thought, yet disproven by showing they are just as equal to RAmarls who are seen as "Gods" by many players. Logically speaking, you can't be equal to a "God" character and be "below average". Of course, HUmars are not superduper strong for soloing, but they aren't horrible at it. I didn't get around to make solo damage comparisons, but I can do a quick one using TWIN:

HUmar: N - H - S
269 - 508 - 899

RAmarl: N - H - S
281 - 531 - 940

There you go, neglegable damage difference, just like before.

These comparions, as I said, only show that they are equal, and aren't meant to say "RAmarl's suck" unless you use backwards logic and think that they so suck because they're equal to HUmars. The point is that HUmars are not "below average" as commonly believed. Most people just recite this without thinking, without researching or learning about characters. ATP/ATA isn't the only issue, though. You have defenses and abilities, etc. All of these attributes, combines, make up what they are and reflect the strengths and weaknesses of their class. Because of this, both characters are perfect examples of how each of their class plays.

I'm sure my post will be broken apart and argued with out of context. >_>; I'm looking foward to that.

[Neith]

On 2006-05-25 16:05, Skorpius wrote:
Anyone who attempts to argue that HUmars are weak, worthless characters have a lot more training and learning to do.


Quoted for truth. In a team, HUmars are very, very good characters, even with a RAmarl/HUnewearl's Shifta/Deband.

What's more annoying than saying RAmarls outdamage anyone is when a RAmarl uses mechguns, and Damage Cancels a Hunter using Demon's attacks. Thanks a lot RA, just make the enemies take twice as long to kill. (well, anyone who damage cancels a Demon's attack). I've learnt through PW#4 that mechs are a waste, as all they do is damage cancel everyone.

I'd much rather have a HUmar with something like a Demo Comet/Meteor Cudgel than a RA (of any kind) spamming mechs, making the whole 'kill enemies fast' idea take twice as long.

Again, credit to good Rangers, and don't take this as a stab at RAmarls, but I still think that with the exception of Demon's, a good Hunter can outdamage a Ranger, and SHOULD be- the Ranger's job is support and crowd control, not damage dealing. Leave that to the Hunters, that's why they have high ATP..

Still don't know why I bother arguing a point, I know it'll just get thrown back at me with facts and figures anyway. Learn to play your class well before you decide to tell other people what sucks. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Delfi]

On 2006-05-25 18:25, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Learn to play your class well before you decide to tell other people what sucks.


I couldnt agree more, with this last part anyway talkin about the towers for my ramarl i only need to land 3 succesful hits on any enemy to kill it.
Now tell me thats NOT total ownage ! lol

[PJ]

On 2006-05-25 18:25, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Still don't know why I bother arguing a point, I know it'll just get thrown back at me with facts and figures opinions anyway. Learn to play your class well before you decide to tell other people what sucks. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

I'll just say HUmars rock. That's it. There's no point in making an actual argument anymore if no one's gonna actually read it -_-

I'm just not gonna argue against classes anymore, even if HUmars are awesome.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

On 2006-05-25 18:10, -Crokar- wrote:
immobilized = frozen or paralyzed.


That's what I mean by immobilized. Frozen or Paralyzed, which HUmar needs those choice weapons to do.

And Demons Rifles have nothing to do with anything, since we both agree that RAngers work well in Towers.

I was only quoting and talking about SereneShadow's quote there, hello people.

No reason to add on to what I said if you agree.

[Dana]

You know http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Me and Skorp has a nice, and long convosation about this.

Before i start i'd like to say This is my opinion

I personally have my opinions, and i just dont like HUmars. But, It really isnt the Character as much as the countless n00bs behind them.

And to be honest. I think the same with is happening with RAmarls. Too many times i have been in game, where a Ramls does nothing but shoot HP, or practicall, is worse than a HUmr. At least they just annoy me, these HP spamming RAml are annoying and Cancelling my beautifull demon's/Beserk.

Now about Humars and Beserk. Hmmmmmm. Same DFP, more atp, and less ata. As long as they can resta themselves (and not demand the FO to) then i dont see why they shouldnt Beserk. The ata is a little low for my likes. With 281 a H H S is good, H S S gets a little MISSy. And i havnt played as a HUmr so i dont know how they do. But, i have played with a HUne, and I cant say i liked the amount she missed.

PW4. HUmrs arnt my favourite class for this. And to be honest, i know it isnt true, and i know VERY good Hunters but, i still dont like HUs in PW4 as much as RAs.
Humr- Cant Freeze, Cant paralys (well). There damage isnt too bad, but i'd rather see a hit from demons, which is less accurate on them. Need more support to stay alive. And so, are poor support.
Any Ra-Can freeze, Droids paralys perfectly. There damage is very high, demons hit very often. Need less support to stay alive. Very good team support


Delphi, your post hurts my eyes a little.

m usually the only 1 in a team who can survive falz and have to provide the support of a fo also with my ramarl, and keep reviving people.
Find better players?


I have yet to see anyone who can slaughter dark falz faster than i with my ramarl when i let rip with my 40% hit spirit vulcans
Play with me? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif As i see you dont have BB i'll assume you mean offline boss areas. >_>


To hayabusa - IMO the best weapon a ranger can have in the tower Is a frozen shooter?
Demon's Rifle comes after your team is safe?

@-Crokar-
Humars can solo towers without help? Easily? <_<;;


Leave that to the Hunters, that's why they have high ATP.

RAcasts? Racaseal is almost as high as HUne also.
But I agree, RAs support first. I just couldnt help myself poke at that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dana_ranger on 2006-05-25 19:49 ]</font>

[-Crokar-]

i know what immobilized mean i said it wasnt neccessary but it was nice. i dont have the items to immobilize. sorry for misunderstanding

[Delfi]

On 2006-05-25 19:47, Dana_ranger wrote:


Delphi, your post hurts my eyes a little.


I have yet to see anyone who can slaughter dark falz faster than i with my ramarl when i let rip with my 40% hit spirit vulcans
Play with me? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif As i see you dont have BB i'll assume you mean offline boss areas. >_>


No i am talking about xbox online - bosses. Id love to play with a lot of you people i really would but seeing as in england thats kinda makes that hard to do.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

On 2006-05-25 19:56, -Crokar- wrote:
i know what immobilized mean i said it wasnt neccessary but it was nice. i dont have the items to immobilize. sorry for misunderstanding


EXP loss in BB makes it way more necessary.

If you die in BB you lose EXP, which is not fun.

You're gonna want to have enemies frozen and paralyzed.

[R2D6battlebot]

HUmar - extra damage in a party
FOnewearl (any FO can be used for this argument) - support for a party
RAmarl - both
nuff said

[Dre_o]

I see valid points and petty points all around. Which is why I will say this:

I like HUmars. No reason in particluar I just do. High damage. Nice HP. Sweet DFP/EVP. Works for me.

AND

Instead of bitching at each other like pathetic little CHILDREN, lets just get a good team together and blow the hell out of PW4/TTF/RST/EN4/WoL5/anything else.

That is all.

[please pardon the language]

[Nai_Calus]

I use a HUmar. I use Partisans and Double Sabers on him, not even the 'big damage' stuff like Swords and Twin Swords. I enjoy using my HUmar when I'm in a HU mood.

...Mind you, I rarely got to use him online, not because of 'HUmars sux', but because it was always 'lol, Ian, go get your FOmar and gib support'. XP Hence I turned to melee FOing for my HU fix. XP

But yeah. HUmars drag down teams my arse. They're good characters in the right hands, and mine was hot, too. XP Even if ORAN sucks and Ian-Kun X is a fairly stupid name. XD

[Neith]

On 2006-05-25 20:02, Delfi wrote:
No i am talking about xbox online - bosses. Id love to play with a lot of you people i really would but seeing as in england thats kinda makes that hard to do.


Delfi, I'm from England and I play BB, you do realise the US version is also for europe, right?

Dana, RAcaseal may have slightly less ATP than HUnewearl, but a HUnewearl can put it to more use in melee. I don't mind Rangers meleeing in some areas, but Tower is not one of them. I don't know, it just annoys me to see Rangers trying to do a Hunters job. ¬_¬

And yeah, since most online games will have either a RAmarl/HUnewearl/FOrce, the HUmar is by no means a waste- with his ATP and ATA (1 higher than a HUnewearls), he can devastate enemies. In a team game with a competent FO, a HUnewearl is more of a burden than a 'mar- less ATA, less ATP.

Sure, a HUney/RAmarl may be better for soloing, but you have to remember:

1) PSO offline presents absolutely no challenge whatsoever. ANY class can own their way through offline solo. (omg, even HUmar!)

2) Only through online quests like EN#4, the PW series and c-mode can you show the skilled players, regardless of class. Sure, a HUmar might be a burden in c-mode, but so is a RAmarl- even more so actually.

I'll finish by saying- I know a lot more good HUmars than good RAmarls, and there are a LOT more RAmarl on Blue Burst.

[RivaOni]

It's all a matter of eprsonaly taste and how you play, anyone who plays with me would probably see a hint of RAcast in my playing style, even though my current characters a HUmar. With which I struggled at first but now I have a balance of a HUmar and RAcast in that I tend to take a set of Mechs and some Hunter weapons with me, clearing the room with the Mechs before finishing stuff off with a Saber of some sort (when I say Mechs I dont literally just mean Mechs, as I'm currently using Repeaters)

At the end of the day, you can all the huge, maxed out stats in the world, doesn't mean your chaarcters a good'un if your playing style is pants.

[Delfi]

No Uriko I had no idea you could play alongside US ppl on BB, I dont have BB though and im not going to get it, I would have to spend a small fortune on items for my pc to make it so it could play games plus I have over 4000 hours on my characters on xbox and i really dont feel like starting over from scratch again.
I just hate when someone says this character is rubbish or that 1 is,and to me up at the top it looked like someone was saying ramarls were rubbish so i just had to give them the big WOT 4 lol, but like i said in my first post i cant say anything bad or good about Humar because I havent tried to use 1 yet, although i will soon make 1 and see what i think for myself.

[R2D6battlebot]

[quote]
On 2006-05-25 16:01, SereneShadows wrote:
Honestly, it's all in the weaponry. But on PW, and boss runs (TTF mostly), RAmarl fails horribly. Sure, you have your Berserk weapon, but you don't want to be fighting Del Lillies, Merics, or bosses at range with a Berserk weapon. You'll get slaughtered very quickly.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=96581822651232088&q=m%40gnum

Can a HUmar do that? Cuz a RAmarl can.

[hyperacute]

Funny that people want to compare HUmar and RAmarl. Apart from the fact that they are both "n00b classes" (HUmar was the popular choice on Gamecube, RAmarl on Blue Burst), they really don't have a great deal in common. One is a hunter with nice high ATP designed for hitting things nice and hard and the other is a ranger with nice high ATA designed for landing special attacks and status effects. Apples and oranges...

Technique comparison between the 2 is pointless outside of solo play. one is 15 levels worse than a force, one is 10 levels worse than a force. Neither should be doing anything remotely tech based with a force around. If there isn't a force around, go find one.

Sure, a RAmarl using special attacks will land them more frequently than a HUmar but conversely, a HUmar will do more damage than a RAmarl with normal and hard attacks. The only way a ranger will outdamage a hunter is using high damage specials such as berzerk and spirit but, as a fan of playing ranger as a "support" character, why would you be doing this when you should be freezing/confusing/paralysing the enemies for the good of the team. Sure, dead is safer than paralysed but in a lot of scenarios, you aren't going to kill everything on the screen instantly so make it easier for the rest of the people in the party first.

I think my point is, when played well, neither character is a detriment to the team. I know plenty of good HUmar players (hell, I was one for a very long time) and I know plenty of good RAmarl players.

Sure, there are probably lots of contrived scenarios in both cases where either can be argued to be better than the other but we don't want to be doing that do we? There are thousands of better things to do than argue about the merits and demerits of different game characters so I'm going to head off and do some of them...XD

[DonRoyale]

On 2006-05-26 02:13, R2D6battlebot wrote:
[quote]
On 2006-05-25 16:01, SereneShadows wrote:
Honestly, it's all in the weaponry. But on PW, and boss runs (TTF mostly), RAmarl fails horribly. Sure, you have your Berserk weapon, but you don't want to be fighting Del Lillies, Merics, or bosses at range with a Berserk weapon. You'll get slaughtered very quickly.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=96581822651232088&q=m%40gnum

Can a HUmar do that? Cuz a RAmarl can.



Any class can do that at level 200. >_>

[R2D6battlebot]

Show me any level 200 HUmar that can go through west tower without being touched.

[Saiffy]

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I don't see Chaosmagnum being that great. When I played with him once, the charge/demon spamming was annoying >_> Not to mention grammar usage.

That being said. Any RA at 130+ who has done hundreds of WT runs to memorize spawns and all the little tricks can do that. It's not an amazing feat.

[R2D6battlebot]

[/quote]

Any class can do that at level 200. >_>

The point is hes doing things that a HUmar, or any HU, cannot do.

[Shigecki]

On 2006-05-26 13:53, R2D6battlebot wrote:
The point is hes doing things that a HUmar, or any HU, cannot do.



Yeah, shoot a rifle.

[R2D6battlebot]

And cast shifta, and hit with the special on the first hit of a combo in towers, and yes, use rifle range weapons.

[Delfi]

Ive never seen a Hunter do tower alone or in a team withouth being killed at least twice lol.. - why do they get killed ? cos they cant stand outta the way of the plants who shoot stuff at them lol..

To whom ever said 130+ and 100s of runs to memoreise spawns - the spawns are easy to remember by your 3rd or 4th run u wuold have memorised most of them. My rangers have of course been pwnin the towers since they reached lvl 80 - dont think a hunter would do that lol

[Shigecki]

On 2006-05-26 16:44, Delfi wrote:
Ive never seen a Hunter do tower alone or in a team withouth being killed at least twice lol.. - why do they get killed ? cos they cant stand outta the way of the plants who shoot stuff at them lol..



Holy Ray = Rifle range.

If you do the run a few times, not much to it really. Just figure out the spawns and you're good. I've done a few solo runs with my HUmar in ET. No deaths. But oh well.

Would be hard to watch a solo run of a hunter, because it's solo. Maybe you just play with bad players.

With all this said, it is easier to do solo runs of either the towers with a ranger, but can be done quite easily with any character really.

Just a quick question, is towers the proving grounds for which character is worthy or better to you guys? It's a serious question, I'm not being sarcastic.

[Dana]

Just a quick question, is towers the proving grounds for which character is worthy or better to you guys? It's a serious question, I'm not being sarcastic.



Towers need teamwork.
A good team player, is the best type of player.
It is not the character, but the person behind it, which PW4 helps me see.

[R2D6battlebot]

[quote]
On 2006-05-25 16:01, SereneShadows wrote:
Honestly, it's all in the weaponry. But on PW, and boss runs (TTF mostly), RAmarl fails horribly. Sure, you have your Berserk weapon, but you don't want to be fighting Del Lillies, Merics, or bosses at range with a Berserk weapon. You'll get slaughtered very quickly.



Towers is completely dominated by any of the RAngers for a few reasons.
1. Frozen Shooter - completely destroys an enemy there except epsilon
2. Yasminkov 9000M - Rifle range mechs. nuff said
3. The higher ATA making them more capable of hitting with special attacks i.e, demons, zalure, etc.

As far as towers being the only proving ground, no, its probably just the best example. TTF is the same way, RAngers completely dominate any of the bosses with such weapons as Yasminkov 9000M (Dark Falz, Sil Dragon), Spread Needle (Dal Ra Lie, Sil Dragon, Vol Opt), Nug2000 Bazooka (Sil Dragon, Dal Ra Lie). You dont even need charge or berserk if you have those weapons, a good s/d will be just fine.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: R2D6battlebot on 2006-05-26 22:44 ]</font>

[Skorpius]

LOL SLICERS

[R2D6battlebot]

[quote]
On 2006-05-26 22:43, Skorpius wrote:
LOL SLICERS

Slicers dont have...
1. the range of a rifle
2. the speed of a needle
3. the hit capacity of mechs (mechs hit 9 times per combo, slicers hit 3)
4. the targetting capacity of a needle (needles can hit 5 enemies, slicers hit 4)

[whiteninja]

On 2006-05-26 23:02, R2D6battlebot wrote:
Slicers dont have...
1. the range of a rifle
2. the speed of a needle
3. the hit capacity of mechs (mechs hit 9 times per combo, slicers hit 3)
4. the targetting capacity of a needle (needles can hit 5 enemies, slicers hit 4)
And what weapon does have that?

The Spreadminkov 9000Needle? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Skorpius]

On 2006-05-26 23:12, whiteninja wrote:
The Spreadminkov 9000Needle

Sigged.

[R2D6battlebot]

Its called switching weapons.

[Skorpius]

Are you saying Rangers are the only characters that can switch weapons?

I don't quite understand the idea you're trying to convey. How does it show that HUmars are worthless characters?

[Neith]

RAmar/marl can cast Shifta ey? Jellen/Zalure is more useful anyway.

I've played with that Chaosm@gnum, and he's not that great. Spamming mechs in tower just SHOWS he's more of a solo player. You just shouldn't use them in Tower ¬_¬

This debate is reallly making me lol now, why not compare a HUmar with a Saber +1 to a RAmarl with a 100/100/0/100 Excal! Ya, that's fair!

Make good comparisons, or don't make them at all. I'll say it again. You CANNOT compare a Hunter to a Ranger, they are totally different character classes, with little to no similarities.

A Ranger will outdamage a HU bby spamming Zerk/Spirit/Charge, but a HU's regular damage far outdamages a RA's. I'd rather play safe and melee with a HU, considering that's what they're built for. RA is built for supporting the team via crowd control and long range fire, NOT melee.

[R2D6battlebot]

On 2006-05-27 01:23, Skorpius wrote:
Are you saying Rangers are the only characters that can switch weapons?

I don't quite understand the idea you're trying to convey. How does it show that HUmars are worthless characters?



The argument isnt that HUmars are worthless. The argument os that RAmarls are better. Stay on topic.

[Jive18]

On 2006-05-27 06:32, R2D6battlebot wrote:

The argument isnt that HUmars are worthless. The argument os that RAmarls are better. Stay on topic.



Maybe you should get in topic :/.


HUmars-Their True Worth

And it's just as Uriko said - no matter how many reasons you come up with to try and justify that a RAmarl is better than a HUmar, the arguement will still be pointless. Hunters are nothing like Rangers. End of story.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jive18 on 2006-05-27 07:03 ]</font>

[Delfi]

On 2006-05-27 07:02, Jive18 wrote:

Maybe you should get in topic :/.


HUmars-Their True Worth
[/quote]

Actually - if you read the post title better - u will see this...
HUmars-Their True Worth (Also Inside, HUmar vs. RAmarl)

SO i guess its still on topic - you are the ones who keep saying that rangers suck , Rangers DO NOT suck under any circumstances - none of the character classes suck - U should all STOP being so serious over this and just allow others to play their game for fun.

[Jive18]

On 2006-05-27 07:29, Delfi wrote:
you are the ones who keep saying that rangers suck


Yeah, because I said that rangers suck in my only post in this topic...

And the point of the thread should be more about dicussing HUmars, not the random character matchup. Regardless, this thread has failed.

[Tycho]

On 2006-05-25 16:01, SereneShadows wrote:
On PW, and boss runs (TTF mostly), RAmarl fails horribly. Sure, you have your Berserk weapon, but you don't want to be fighting Del Lillies, Merics, or bosses at range with a Berserk weapon. You'll get slaughtered very quickly.
Quoted for emphasis.
.. Because it made me laugh.

[Saiffy]

I guess HUmars can only hold one weapon because they're seen as FSODers. And they can only kamakazie FSOD. So they lost their unequipped stuff? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

[whiteninja]

Hm, I should do an East Tower run with my Humar without being hit... just to show it could be done. Of course, it would be full of Holy Ray spammage. (xomg rifle ranj on a humar! and he cn use a charge vulk for mech damage! and a sword for hitting multipul enemays! h44444x!)

And Humars can switch weapons. I have over 20 weapons on my Humar. Of course, I don't use them all, all the time because that would be tedious, and annoying if I lost them to FSOD... But it is still great fun to occasionally play with all of them, and then see people shout: "h4x!" http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif


On 2006-05-27 04:59, UrikoBB3 wrote:
I've played with that Chaosm@gnum, and he's not that great. Spamming mechs in tower just SHOWS he's more of a solo player. You just shouldn't use them in Tower ¬_¬
He is more a solo player, but why no mechs? Damage cancel? With the damage he doesn, he won't be canceling. XD He can solo all of PW4:ET without taking any damage. He does not spam the Charge Assults either; he switches between weapons and has his timing perfectly. Anyway, him soloing beats a team of a Fomarl and 3 Racasts. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: whiteninja on 2006-05-27 10:46 ]</font>

[RadiantLegend]

You can use mechs in towers. You just have to know when to use em.

[Dana]

On 2006-05-27 13:03, Ragolismine wrote:
You can use mechs in towers. You just have to know when to use em.



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif Indeed.
I stopped using them now however, i dont think they are needed, it doesnt make it any easier, in fact, the last run i did without them was by far, my best run.

[Neith]

On 2006-05-27 10:44, whiteninja wrote:
but why no mechs? Damage cancel?

Yeah, as a HU, I notice damage cancel a lot, because I generally know how many hits it takes me to kill something. For example, it generally takes me 2 full combos (N-H-H) and a hit or two extra to kill an Ult Ill Gill. When someone's spamming mechs, it sometimes takes twice or 3 times as long.

Fair enough, with that kinda damage that M@gnum was doing, he likely won't damage cancel, but I was just pointing it out, especially when you take into consideration something like a RAmarl/RAcaseal with Yas 9K. That right there is damage cancel. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

On-topic: Good to see everyone tearing each other to shreds, it's what everyone who's new here sees all the time. Now go and agree that you cant compare HU/RA, RA/FO, or HU/FO. Then, think about some of the downright stupid comparisons this thread has brought up.

Then go play the game, instead of arguing over something entirely opinion-based.